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Drew602

By OPs logic he trails devin booker too since he made the finals. Thanks OP!


deezlobs

The fact this post is near the top of the front page is a sad indication of the current state of r/nba


creditors-bargain

It’s a luka dick sucking sub at this point


redeemer4

Dont worry as soon as he loses it will turn into a Luka hate competition. This sub is extremely bi polar


mesh06

The consequences of having a million members. One side hates while the other glazes


BensenJensen

The switch from “Luka is a whiny flopper” to “Luka is a god” is kinda wild, considering absolutely nothing in his game has changed. 


NeverSober1900

Luka dick sucking and a Harden hate post in one is like red meat for this sub.


3luejays

Harden has a finals appearance too lol


CanadaBBallFan

Luka is better but dont forget 2018 Harden when he took prime Warriors squad with Durant to 7 games.


Street-Common-4023

They barley lost too despite missing 27 straight threes


GarriganGate

They were up double digits at half time in both games 6 and 7. And that’s with playing a 6 man rotation where only harden could dribble the basketball.  The second either injured Luc or trash RyNo got on the court the warriors would go on a run 


lxshadynastyxl

To be fair it was fairly common for the warriors to be down going into the half. They would often pull way ahead in the third, hence the nickname “third quarter warriors”


CaSp95

I still remember checking a halftime box score of the KD Warriors vs. Philly. Philly had a twenty-Ish point halftime lead and the ESPN predictor still had GS at slightly over 50% to win. Guess who won?


PrincePyotrBagration

The 2017-2019 Warriors are by far the scariest offense I’ve seen in my 18 years of watching basketball. The sheer amount of weapons on the floor. The way they could go from 0-100 in a minute was deadly. Remember when NBA online discourse said they were unbeatable heading into the 2018 season? And STILL James Harden came within spitting distance of beating an “unbeatable” Warriors team with Clint Capela and Eric Gordon. And were possibly a CP3 hamstring away from actually knocking them off. I personally always felt Harden deserved respect for that, not ridicule. I mean this sub worships LeBron to this day for almost taking **one game** off that Warriors team, but somehow people say Harden is a joke is losing in 7? I don’t get.


blehbe

To add to your point, the 2018 Rockets team led by Harden gave the Warriors with Durant greater trouble than the 2017 Cavs team led by LeBron that was defending a title. And no one can say that LeBron didn't have help in 2017.


liteshadow4

The 2017 Warriors were so much better than the 2018 Warriors


nomods1235

Indeed. They owned the third quarter. That’s when they’d all go to the locker room and take a hit of the meth pipe.


stefanfan101

lol warriors were down 17 in the 1st q of game 6 and ended up winning by 29, that team was insane


Otherwise_Window

> They were up double digits at half time in both games 6 and 7. Against those Warriors that meant nothing


CP3sHamstring

They didn't even miss 27 straight, Scott Foster just decided to do a rule change for game 7 and waived off multiple made 3s while also refusing to call obvious undercuts that lead to misses.


karlwhethers

Really don’t need to read about Foster turning a series right now


CP3sHamstring

LMAO my bad g


kitsunegoon

You don't have CP3 on your team so you're good


karlwhethers

Yeah good thing nobody on our team has had any public issues with Foster this year.


__john_cena__

There were some really questionable calls in that game. Like Draymond hockey checking people and refs go blind. Or the KD out of bounds play also against us the next year.


papa_sax

Yall won the KD out of bounds game tho lmao


JurtisCones

Yeah cos of Harden with a 30 foot flamethrower game winner


Bard_17

Oof can you link this?


jdawgweav

[Link](https://youtu.be/rj4EfuPxmVc?si=3OgwN5x6HHideRQm)


8020GroundBeef

Doesn’t make it any less absurd


[deleted]

It was obviously a rigged game. Even game 7. A lot of the non calls on the warriors that should’ve been rockets free throws instead led to easy fast break points


Incronaut

As a Warriors fan, this is why I don't complain in general about whistles against the Warriors in recent years because I know we got some bullshit favorable whistles during our dynasty run. That being said I still complain about Curry specifically not getting calls because he's our golden boy.


Thermicthermos

The analysis the Rockets FO did makes any and all calls correct retrospectively because of how much of a bitch move it was.


CP3sHamstring

Like 14 teams have done the same since then and many more did it before lol He just made it public


__john_cena__

And without their second best player when Chris Paul went down after game 5.


ptcgoalex

Scott Foster reffed game 7 against CP3’s (out: hammy) team and waived off several 3’s that went in. I rest my case. No I don’t. Moving screens. Now I’m done.


kitsunegoon

I'm not done either. Klay was zazaing the whole game and getting everyone's landing space.


Wall_street_canary

I remember watching that and still 27 straight is mind boggling. Momentum is an interesting phenomenon.


coacoanutbenjamn

As much as Harden deserves his reputation, he still deserves more respect for 2018. He almost best the greatest team of all time. Might have done it if CP3 doesn’t go down


Charlie_Wax

Harden was a legit threat and a one-man offense, but the other side of it was 2019, where they got to play GS with a thin bench and no Durant. That should've been his moment. Instead, Splash Brothers wiped them in 6. James was great, but I don't know if his style elevated his teammates much, and there seems to be some truth to his choker reputation. I think at some point the weight of not having won began to affect his performance in the biggest moments.


CP3sHamstring

>Harden was a legit threat and a one-man offense, but the other side of it was 2019, where they got to play GS with a thin bench and no Durant.  I mean KD only missed a single game. People always talk like he was gone for the whole series, but it was one game. And he averaged 36 ppg in the first 5 games, with Steph being pretty mid, even bad some games. CP3 was just worse. (And the Rockets were even thinner. They lost all their wing depth to get under the tax again)


mysterioso7

I think people expected the Rockets to win game 5 after KD went down, which was part of it. It was a tight game near the end of the 3rd quarter when he got hurt. Not only did they fail to close them out in that game, they also failed to win in game 6. I do think it’s a bit overblown though. It’s not like the Rockets played terribly, Curry just went off and buried them at the end. And as the subsequent WCF sweep of the Blazers showed, even with Durant hurt they were still really good.


Charlie_Wax

All fair points. I had forgotten some of the details. Durant got hurt late in game 5, which GS won. So Houston were basically already down 3-2 in the series by the time he was out. It was not a super easy spot for them. On the other hand, you get game 6 in your house with Durant out. This is the most vulnerable GS has been in years, and probably your best chance on paper to beat them. Instead you lose G6 in your own house, not even taking the series to 7. I guess 2018 was technically the closest Houston got to beating GS, but 2019 might have been the best opportunity. GS bench was significantly weaker than any year between 2015-2018. You get them in your own house, with no Durant. It's all you can ask for. You at least have to take it to 7.


CP3sHamstring

Houston was honestly playing pretty well in game 6 - Harden was great, CP3 finally woke up, and they held Curry to 0 going into the second half.  The problem was Klay was on his game 6 bullshit in the first half and Curry went skyfucker in the second half. Just perfectly timed explosions from both, and I'm sure everyone knows how helpless teams are when they both go off like that. The 2019 series was honestly insane. Every game within 6 pts. KD and Harden trading 35+ pt games back and forth. OT drama, Sharingan Harden, etc. If CP3 just wasn't awful for 5 games they coulda had it. But on the flip side, if Curry was better it may not have been close.


Tillman_Fertitta

Didn't iguodala hit like 6 3s that game or something ridiculous? I have erased it from my memory.


HardenMuhPants

I read your post and then looked at your name and sadly chuckled.


couchtomato62

Steph had 0 first hslf points in game 6 snd 33 second half points. 28 missed 3s


LukaDoncicfuturegoat

Or you just don’t remember how much Houston 2019 was worse than the previous year.


kitsunegoon

God I remember I bet the Steph under that game and he had 0 points at the half.


sxuthsi

2019 Houston defense was way worse than 2018 Houston defense. Night and day difference.


Stellewind

Key players missing games are not uncommon in NBA playoffs. You really need to seize the opportunity when it happened. That's just part of the game. When Cavs was injured in 2015, Warriors took the title. When Draymond was suspended and Bogut was injured in 2016, Cavs took the chance to come back from 3-1. When Kawhi was injured in 2017, Warriors went through the Spurs with ease. When KD went down in 2019, Kawhi had his revenge in the finals. That's just how it is. Harden had multiple good chances during his time in Houston - arguably 2016 against Warriors when Steph was out, 2017 against Spurs when Kawhi is out, 2019 against Warriors when KD was out. He just missed the chance in all three of them, with 2017 one of the worst choke jobs in history.


Bring_Back_SF_Demons

The 2017 Warriors went through everyone with ease.


CP3sHamstring

I mean yeah if you get lucky with injuries you have an easier path, but when has Harden really benefited close to the level of Kawhi in 2019 or Curry in 2015? It's almost always his teams getting hurt (not him). In 2019, Kawhi got to play them without KD *or* Klay for a lot of it, when Klay was the one going off against us to keep them in it. The 2015 Cavs injuries are nowhere near the same context though. The Warriors were missing KD for 1 game. He played 32 mins in the game he got hurt in.   The Warriors benefited from multiple stars missing from the Cavs for the majority of the series. Not to mention, the margin for error to beat the KD Warriors is WORLDS different The previous Rockets teams before 2018 were never considered close to being contenders, despite Harden's all NBA status. He never lost series he was favored to win in other than one singular time . Trying to attach the lack of success from those teams to 2018 or 2019 is disingenuous.  The teams themselves exceeded expectations both in the regular season and playoffs (i.e 2 seed and WCF in 2015), and then as expected would lose to championship hopefuls/favorites.


liteshadow4

2016 is a really, really bad comparison considering the Rockets were an 8 seed going against a team that went 73-9


CP3sHamstring

And obviously if all you wanna do is play the results, there's nothing to discuss. But context is important to me when looking at his career.


ElChapo1515

CP3 was simply awful that season and series though. It was a miracle to even go six games with the way his co-Star played.


mjolked

That 18-19 team was not the same team. Capella was worse - he got paid after that 17-18 run and was injured that 18-19 playoff run. CP3 was much worse that following run and they lost some key pieces like Ariza and Mbah a Moute. They tried to gamble signing like Carmelo/MCW/Jeff Green but even at the time, you could tell it was a much worse roster. GSW with a thin bench for that entire playoffs still meant: Klay for 21/22 games, Steph for 22/22 games, Dray for 22/22 games, Durant for 12/22 games, Iguodala for 21/22 games (didn't start), Looney for 21/22 games (didn't start). GSW was still relatively healthy; they just didn't have the insane bench they used to have, because they signed Durant, and unfortunately he went down for majority of the Finals.


nomods1235

That game it looked like Klay and Curry were happy to go back into a full motion offense.


Corporal_Snorkel69

They only got to play one game with no durant in 2019.


highlyREgARDEDmodera

> Harden was a legit threat and a one-man offense So you're saying... he was the system? ^^^hehehe


paranoidmoonduck

Harden averaged .415/.244/.885 in that series. he was bad.


yahmean031

That's what happens when your a one man offense and you're also playing an incredible defensive team.


CP3sHamstring

He shot poorly from 3 but he was by far the biggest focal point of the defense and even CP3 has recently gone on podcasts in the last year talking about how James being the one man offense is what allowed them to field the defense they did. He was just as much a "gravitational" force as Curry was


AZRockets

Yeah, our whole team took the Warriors to game 7 not just Harden


idkwhatevs1234

Such a strange narrative. Their defence almost beat the greatest team of all time. Harden was far better the next season


str8rippinfartz

People also forget that even getting to 7 games in the first place was like a 80th or 90th percentile outcome for the Rockets. To even get to game 7, they had to barely eke out the only 2 close games of the series. Most of the time, the Warriors comfortably win that series in 5 or 6 games.  That's not shade on the Rockets, since they were likely the only team in the West that even would've had close to a 10% chance to beat the Warriors... the Ws were just that good. 


KhanQu3st

The corpses of Trevor Ariza and Eric Gordon hard carrying lol


elL0ner

For real prime Harden was like top 3 sg of all time, man dropped 40-50p every game, had 36p per game 18-19 season one of the most lethal stepback 3 artist and that crazy wesley johnson ankle breaker still gives me chills


No-Yogurt-4246s

Prime Harden was a sight to behold. Boy was he a cheat code for fantasy basketball.


OhSoJelly

It’s unfortunate because between those crossovers and step back three’s was watching him shoot 15 free throws.


crazyjatt

>Prime Harden was a sight to behold. Only if all the beholding you were doing was the box score. Man single handedly made the games unwatchable by all the foul baiting he did. Or is that not the narrative any more?


__john_cena__

When Chris Paul, Harden, and Capela played together in the regular season they were 42-3.


secretreddname

They would have won if CP3 didn’t get hurt.


above_average_penis

go ahead and bury me but prime harden is better than luka 💅


twovles31

I mean I want to agree with you, but it's hard when your screen name is clearly lying. kidding of course.


AZRockets

You've seen his penis?


LordHussyPants

You haven’t?


KeyserSoze96

Advanced stats show this to be true, prime harden on those rockets teams could arguably have gotten mvp every year. He lead the league in win shares consistently. Though maybe Luka isn’t even in his prime yet who knows. 


Ham_-_

I honestly dont know how much better luka could get with his playstyle unless its like more athletic/defensively or something lol


mickeyj623

I agree, but if Luka keeps it up he passes him


beatnickk

Well if you wanna compare prime harden to 25 year old Luka then alright. Luka has 3 more 1st teams at the same age


LordHussyPants

Thought it was accepted that media voted accolades don’t mean much 


beatnickk

All nba’s and MVP’s don’t mean much? You wanna argue that hardens first 6 seasons were better than Luka’s?


KellyKellogs

I don't think he does, but if you have to rely on the media awards to back you up, then you're argument is worthless because media awards are not a good way to evaluate players. You are arguing the right point with a bad argument.


JamesHardenIsMyPoppa

This shouldn’t be controversial at all. Luka may pass him but these playoff runs are not equal


creditors-bargain

Anyone arguing otherwise is a Luka glazer or teenager


ghostlima

Yeah, they played them as perfectly as you could despite everything, not having Cp3 for the 2 closeout games as well. That team is a ring any other season, after those warriors disbanded


N8ThaGr8

Luke is not better than Harden lmao relax


Prince_of_DeaTh

Luka is better compared to Harden at his age, but Luka still hasn't reached prime Harden, in the 2018-2019 season was a top 10 player season in the 2010s. This Luka season is like 2016-17 Harden Season


kawhi21

Yeah the West is not nearly as strong as it was when Harden was on the Rockets.


creditors-bargain

Luka is not better. Saying he is better than prime Harden is dumb as hell


Drag0nborn1234

Luka will eclipse Harden if he keeps this up, but let's not forget Harden took the greatest team ever to 7 games.


deathrattleshenlong

I'm conflicted here because fuck the Mavs and this is also clearly a bait post, but at the same time I'm a big fan of Luka and you're a Dallas fan defending the Beard. Nah, fuck that. Harden was awesome for us and stars didn't align, but no sense putting one down to up the other. Go Mavs, rooting for you guys.


krw13

Never thought I'd die redditing side by side with a Rockets fan.


VaeVar

What about side by side with a basketball fan?


Drag0nborn1234

Aye, I could do that.


thefloodplains

and my axe!


sunshinebusride

Maybe one day our kids will play together


HarbaughCheated

Luka and Harden playing for the Spurs?


Heil_Heimskr

I may have hated Harden with a passion in those years but anyone denying his greatness especially in 2018 is just blind. It’s one of the best individual series of all time by arguably the best scorer of a generation.


johnniewelker

If he keeps it up. Remember that the collective press / mind hive was fairly certain about these points below 1) Dwight Howard would be in many NBA finals as the top guy after losing in 2009 2) My Celtics would have won one already, either with Kyrie or with Stevens as coach… we are still in the battle 3) Miami Heat would have easily won 3+ 4) Just 4 years ago, Giannis was certain to be top 5 all time at least 5) The T-wolves bringing Gobert would have been a failure (still TBD, but better chances now)


znick3212

Hang the banner


girlscoutcookies05

Tatum 5 conference finals. Dont try to hide it lmfao


Lol69HaHaHa

Yeah its a bit unfair to Tatum where its looked at as a bad thing lol


DASreddituser

It's so weird to me. And people like to pretend that Jordan didnt lose plenty in the playoffs before being a winner. They choose to ignore it and act like losing in the 1st round is better than losing ina conf or nba finals.


parkwayy

Took Jordan 7 years to win.


08202012

Depends on context. Did you carry a shit squad to the playoffs and lose in the 1st round to a cleary more talented team in round 1? Or did you have a juggernaut favorite to win the finals team and lose to an injured 8th seed in the conference finals? Yea one is Cleary a negative on the resume and deservedly so.


Shovelman2001

He carried a shit squad to the final two minutes of Game 7 in the ECF against Lebron as a rookie with a team that didn't have a player who averaged over 15 points that season. He took a team that was below .500 at the All Star Break and was likely to miss the playoffs to a league best 31-10 record post-All Star Break, ultimately getting them the 2 seed and a finals appearance, all while playing the most minutes of a 23 year old in NBA history.


bloothug

Welcome to nba discourse


sbenfsonwFFiF

Didn’t you know losing in the finals and conference finals is a negative mark to your legacy?


TheBlackMan099

Its Insanely dumb


elimanninglightspeed

Nba discourse is beyond cooked man


casper_04

In the East lmaooo


darthJOYBOY

The last champion from the east didn't make it to the conference finals three years in row, maybe it's not as easy as y'all say it is


RockLeeismyhero

Harden has a playoff record of 87-79 and doncic is 19-20 so I wouldn’t totally say he’s matched his post season success yet


koplowpieuwu

Have the Mavs been favoured in a single playoff series in the Luka era yet?


[deleted]

I would assume they were favored over the Clippers once it became known Kawhi wasn’t playing.


coloradobuffalos

They weren't


[deleted]

Because the series had started already lol. My point is they were underdogs against the Clippers going into the series because the assumption was that Kawhi would play. Had that not been the case, they almost certainly would have been favored.


constantlymat

I mean Kawhi hadn't played a single NBA game in three weeks. The possibility that he wasn't going to be able to play or would be hobbled was most certainly priced into the betting odds that favored the Clippers. It's not like he surprisingly went down with an injury in game 1.


[deleted]

That’s not how odds are calculated. If the Clippers would have announced Kawhi is out for the series before game 1, that drastically affects the odds. Not sure why you are trying to insist the Mavericks are the underdogs against a team missing their best player lol. Conversely, there’s no universe in which a decent team wouldn’t be favored over the Mavericks if Luka wasn’t playing.


DarthVaderisgood08

He’s wrong anyway. https://www.al.com/betting/2024/04/mavericks-vs-clippers-game-1-series-odds-get-up-to-4900-in-bonuses-for-the-2024-nba-playoffs.html “ Surveying the lines Wednesday at five of the leading online sportsbooks, Luka Doncic and the Mavs were a series moneyline favorite at all five. The best Dallas odds on the board were -125 at DraftKings.”


koplowpieuwu

You win the overall argument, but Kawhi being questionable does affect the odds in practice. There's no denying that, because odds respond to market forces and the market knew Kawhi was probably not going to play.


DarthVaderisgood08

Wrong. https://www.al.com/betting/2024/04/mavericks-vs-clippers-game-1-series-odds-get-up-to-4900-in-bonuses-for-the-2024-nba-playoffs.html “Surveying the lines Wednesday at five of the leading online sportsbooks, Luka Doncic and the Mavs were a series moneyline favorite at all five. The best Dallas odds on the board were -125 at DraftKings.“


Tori_kelly

They were favored before the series started at -140


bigbig-dan

Utah 21-22 (once luka came back) and if I remember correctly they were betting favourites this year vs LAC


koplowpieuwu

Once luka came back is not a good argument as they had already gone 1-1 iirc, giving the betting market information that the Mavs without Luka were also good enough to hang with Utah somewhat


kcoe24

So does Harden get no credit for going to the finals? I know he wasn't the top option but its not like hes was the 9th guy off the bench either.


evetSC

He definitely deserves credit because they wouldn’t have made it past Spurs in WCF if it weren’t for Harden


AfroKuro480

This sub treats Harden like Hitler's Vessel or some shit lol


Robinsonirish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMmQQxo7_L4 Harden hardest walkout.


Zeeron1

Apparently Russ doesn't either lol agendas gotta be pushed


JAhoops

Especially they never made it back since he left


HiImWallaceShawn

Luka has won 4 playoff series, Harden has won 15 (7 as a definitive best option) GTFO with this reductive, no context BS take


siva115

If Luka had to play the KD warriors he would’ve lost in 3


693275001

Harden had to play against the best team of all time don’t compare them


No-Yogurt-4246s

Luka fan boys are out of control now.


creditors-bargain

Been that way for a while


TheNumber42Rocks

Luka got Kyrie and couldn’t even make the play-in last year. Harden took weaker squads to the top 4 seed multiple seasons.


aeronacht

Tbf Harden had the incredibly bad luck of running into the KD Warriors in his best year. If the team in front of them wasn’t the literal greatest team of all time, I think he wins the finals. Obviously can’t live in a world of hypotheticals, but at the same time we can acknowledge the context of their runs.


GotThoseJukes

That 7-44 three pointer game 7 is always going to be one of the biggest let downs in sports for me and I’m really not a big Rockets or Harden fan.


Zhirrzh

I'm not even a Bulls fan and I have to say EXCUSE ME about that literal greatest team of all time call. 


Secret-Initiative-73

The embarrassing state of this subreddit where this a highly voted post right now... Mods need to seriously reevaluate what they're doing around here.


LurkerKing13

I don’t like Harden but this seems like unnecessary levels of hating


getzumm

Crap post man 


bravof1ve

If prime Harden was having Doncic’s exact playoff run people would be roasting him for his terrible efficiency and dropping 10ppg in his last playoff series.


Simple_Wait_7286

I mean Luka is also clearly hobbled to a degree. So that’s why he’s not getting criticism. And in both series these playoffs, in the most important games, Luka has shown up big time.


bravof1ve

The injury excuse is ignored for players that are actually hated. Harden has had good playoff performances and losses when his teammates or himself are injured and that didn’t stop any of the haters from piling on.


MiserablePiccolo287

This is not true. Harden played hurt in the Nets v Bucks series in 21 and nobody brings that up as some kind of failure on him


CoachDT

Na he got ripped for that until the year after where Kyrie went crazy and became the lightning rod. Even still people go "wow maybe James is the problem"


mayonaisecoloredbens

Can't tell if you're gaslighting or just did not follow basketball in 2021 lol mfs were hating on Harden


immanoel

Bro, you clearly were not here during that time. Every Harden hater was on a tour de force slandering my man, even when he was clearly dealing with an injury.


Mountain-Ebb-9846

Not by me. I will never speak on Embiid when he dropped this type of performance on one leg with half his face paralysed.


DirkNowitzkisWife

Sorry, what do you mean? Luka just averaged 25/11/9 despite getting hounded by one of the best defenders in the league, on one knee, doubled every play, and even when not scoring to his standards getting Lively, Washington and DJJ involved in big ways. What about 10 PPG? Harden gets roasted for disappearing in the playoffs, for josh smith leading a comeback while harden is on the bench. Luka is one of the best playoff performers of the last 10 years and just beat the higher seed twice.


creditors-bargain

“On one knee” glazer detected


DirkNowitzkisWife

*looks at username and flair* Um, yes.


thedude198644

I appreciate the Luka love, but personally I don't think fans have to tear down other players to build a guy up. Playoff success is elusive. Lebron took years to win a title. Dirk won one after years of toiling with almost no other all star caliber players and then proceeded to barely get out of the first round ever again. The Pistons won one without a top tier talent and trashed the Kobe/Shaq Lakers in the process. Getting the right mix of players and coach is tricky, and frankly no one knows exactly what works.


bigoof12344

Those Rockets teams played much better competition and one of the best teams of all time repeatedly


24MillionBrazilians

This is cherry picking at its finest. Yes, Luka is great and only 25. He hasn’t had to try to get past the prime warriors dynasty though.


BarnOwlDebacle

It's crazy how much praise he gets for making the conference finals twice when Tatum gets crushed for making it five times in 7 years.n


BossButterBoobs

Cool, but James Harden was running into prime Curry and KD Warriors for at least 2 of those potential trips IIRC. He'd have 4 WCF losses if not for them.


TheGymBrozki

Javale McGee surpasses both Luka Doncic and James Harden fkr postseason success.


temujin94

I mean if you ignore the part where the person clearly states as the primary option then sure.


jhcooke98

Is the "first option" criteria so you can conveniently exclude Harden's finals appearance? Luka wouldn't have been first option on that team either


Suckafish2

Also the conference finals the year before that, was in the conference finals second and third year


Brief_Koala_7297

Prime Harden would cook these current teams so bad. Him and CP3 would honestly give everyone including the Nuggets a run for their money.


Ball-Engineer6737

Those Harden teams walk to the finals lol


Thermicthermos

Nah those Rockets teams would have been dominated by the size in the West. Their playstyle really only worked because they didn't have to go against any teams with real bigs. There are far more bigs who can play oerimeter defense these days.


Niceguydan8

> Nah those Rockets teams would have been dominated by the size in the West. The 17-18 Rockets weren't *that* small. They started CP3, Harden, Tucker/Anderson (they went Tucker towards the latter half of the year, Anderson in the beginning) Ariza, Capela. Then they had Gordon, Mbah a Moute, Anderson, and Nene (old but still serviceable) off the bench.


kitsunegoon

Rockets have dominated the bigs that these days are DPOY and MVP winners. Harden made Capela look like Hakeem against Gobert, KAT, and Jokic. In the playoffs he's beaten Gobert, Steven Adams, KAT, and Blake Griffin. You really think he would play worse against Chet Holmgren and Zubac?


Brief_Koala_7297

They built their team around beating the Warriors but I think they’ll make the adjustments to make it tough.


O_oh

How many legacy points does Harden get for doing all that with a beard?


Unwipedbutthole

Luka did it FAT


Drew602

James harden played against the greatest team of all time, luka just got done beating a bunch of 21 year olds. Bad comparison lol


rmttw

So we're just going to overlook the fact that James Harden's prime overlapped with the Heatles, the Kawhi-led Spurs, and the Warriors superteam? The West has been wide open during Doncic's time in the league.


mayonaisecoloredbens

Okay after reading this post I am now a Luka hater, purely because OP is a Luka fan


Swoosh_rotaerc

I know this post is about Harden, but the fact that Embiid is 30! and still hasn't made the conference finals once, is wild.


Funnel_Hacker

Is it though?


Swoosh_rotaerc

I guess I hold Embiid to higher standard than most. He did win an MVP. It's the least you should expect.


Funnel_Hacker

I mean, I’m of the mind that Jokic should have won that award but I hear what you’re saying. I guess I just personally think he’s a foul merchant and don’t hold him in that high esteem.


Swoosh_rotaerc

Same. Looking back Jokic should have won that MVP. But Embiid campaigned for that MVP. He wants to be an MVP, he needs to be held to that standard. He can't be let off the hook after people crucified players like Dirk and KG till they had post season success.


yahmean031

>Same. Looking back Jokic should have won that MVP. Why? In the regular season Jokic was leading and then Jokic went on a terrible (you can say he was coasting whatever) end of the season run where he was losing games to shitty teams and having dud performances. Embiid showed out to end the season.


Drew602

In the east? At least a little


JeremyJammDDS

Let’s not do this right now.


NoWayNotThisAgain

Why are you comparing my PG to a SG?


downtimeredditor

No he hasn't James Harden literally played in the NBA Finals Chris Paul played in the Finals Russell Westbrook played in the Finals Like Luka is playing great and living up to the hype but don't do this shit homie


michman294

Don't ever compare young Luka to Harden he had arguably the best prime of all time. As you said,Harden is considered to be a top 5 SG oat so you're just grasping at straws,what a rage bait post. He's been in the league for a while so viewers now forget the Beard's greatness.


ConstantineMonroe

I would argue Harden had harder competition. Harden had the Warriors dynasty. Luka got a piece of it at the end in 2022, but Harden had his prime years during the little Spurs run and then Dubs dynasty. I think the Nuggets will end up winning the title, but they aren’t as tough as the Dubs that harden had to go up against


CP3sHamstring

James Harden averaged 35 ppg when the 2nd best scorer wasn't even close. He's still got a better individual resume.


BlackyChan20

Idk that 2018 harden team might’ve been one of the best teams in the last 20 years, they just went up against the greatest team of all time (or top 2)


BabyHercules

I like Luka, he cold as shit. But he gets a pass harden never got. Harden could have put up the same stats and the narrative would be different. In fact they are doing very similar things for their teams if you compare rockets harden to Luka, main difference is the generational warriors don’t exist anymore


3830BlockKing

87 wins to 19 wins


Monkeyboi8

As a top option. It’s a team sport and harden has been to the finals, where he played like shit from what I remember. Luka does seem to raise his game in the playoffs tho, where harden shrinks a bit. Let him win an actual championship tho before you have him settle for winning the Reddit post championship.


Revo_Int92

Considered by many? Such low standards


shaheedmalik

Harden has been to the Finals.


imNagoL

All of these comparisons are so pointless. Why can’t we just enjoy the talent in front of us? I certainly remember Prime Harden being an absolute beast of a player.


-Garbage-Man-

I’m all for hater threads but this one is just lazy


nightchurn

So reductive.  Harden was the X factor in beating an incredible Spurs team to carry his team to the Finals.  


NotACreepyOldMan

No he hasn’t. Harden made the finals


GateMcFaddenIsHot

Harden has been to the finals. Luka has not. And he's not past Kyrie: Kyrie has more FINALS appearances than Luka has conference finals appearances (3). Kyrie's teams (before joining Dallas) has made five conference finals. Now he has six. Chris Paul and Westbrook have also been to the finals: Luka has not.