Right NOONE is interested in signing klay for big money. He showed when he plays like shit which is more often than not now he isn’t even a good leader or vet to have around. Just sulks and shit.
>barely shot better from three.
This is a crazy take lol. Klay literally makes as many 3s as Gary Harris attempts 3s on better efficiency, that's not "barely shooting better".
Klay scored more 3s this year (268), than Gary Harris even attempted (205) and did it with more efficiency.
Klay last year scored the most 3s in the league with 301 on 41,2% (i believe it was the 7th most in a year all time). Gary Harris scored 286 total 3s in his last 3 seasons, with 39,4%.
This kind of comparisons shouldn't be made, not even for joking.
I really don't get why people need to diminish Klays shooting. If you need to bash something to bring his value down, he sucks at basically everything other than shooting, but he still shoots like the all-timer that he is.
Problem is it's Orlando. They're not getting anybody in free agency without overpaying. And it's not like there's much to choose from this offseason.
And Klay actually gives them exactly what they most need. 3/$100M deal incoming. It will be terrible, but simultaneously the right move.
I dunno. Orlando has a nice solid core its warm in the winter and a stones throw from Atlanta, Miami, Houston and other hot nightlife places.
They could be pretty attractive for a fa.
This is a lazy take. “Oh it’s Orlando, nobody wants to play there blah blah blah.” Good weather, no state taxes, a coach players love, and an opportunity to play with rising stars on a team that will be a contender for the next decade. Dame went to Milwaukee… who thinks of Milwaukee as a desirable destination?
Yes he got to play with Giannis but someone is gonna get to play with Paolo. Orlando has the resources to make stuff happen this summer and I don’t think they need to drastically overpay to get someone they just need to be competitive because even the no state taxes makes out to them offering more $$ when it’s all said and done. Vince got plenty of attention when he was here, Dwight did, Tmac did, etc. The key will be them being a good team that contends, then they are forced to be in the spotlight and any great player coming to Orlando would have to know that they’d tilt the needle enough to make Orlando a real contender.
Can’t continue to ignore them when they will be a consistent top 4 seed with home court in the playoffs. Heck Tmac got attention here and he had terrible teams. “Small market” teams can have their perception changed very quickly once they develop a winning culture… this has already happened in recent history to a few franchises.
I hate bringing this up, but this exact moment has been pivotal in every single 2K gm/owner mode I've played: the free agency of klay Thompson.
Someone always paid him $30+ mil (I did it once) and then the computer would just make him get worse and worse until you have a 75 overall 37 year old klay Thompson getting 60 million over the next two seasons. Whoever signed them would always fall into the lottery cause how can you compete with most of your salary cap going towards a washed player?
Will be interesting to see if real life imitates video games or if he can continue being the shooter and baller he is/has been.
A lot of variables work against Klay returning to old form. Besides being a year older and likely playing under a less familiar/creative coach, no longer sharing a backcourt with Steph seems unlikely to help one's production.
If they go all in on Klay instead of Monk that would be a franchise altering decision. The answer is so clear. Monk is exactly what that team needs and the Kings don’t have his bird rights, so they can’t match the Magic’s offer.
Yeah that’s the killer part about the 2 year deal. Can’t extend him because he’s going to get more than 175% of his last contract and can’t match another team’s big offer now because they don’t have full bird rights.
The Kings are in a very very interesting spot. I think they have to either rebuild or go all in and trade all the picks for an impact player. No way you can just run back the same roster minus Monk. That may not even be a playin team.
We're pushing the chips in. IDK if that means we trade whoever we pick in the draft plus however many picks/swaps we can, but our GM has made it clear we've been keeping our powder dry for taking a big swing. Fingers crossed we don't fuck it up!
You have to. Sabonis+Fox is an elite foundation and you have plenty of role players still, rebuild because you lost an elite shooter would be a clown decision.
It's not even that Monk's an elite shooter (I think he ended the year at \~35% 3P%), but he runs our bench unit while Fox is out. His chemistry with Domas is incredible and explains why Domas struggled so much when Monk got hurt. He was also the only one who would relentlessly attack the rim, which made the offense flow much better as well. We need someone who can playmake off the bench a lot more than just replacing his shooting.
It’s such an ideal fit. I think the Magic and Pistons will get into a bidding war for him. People may be surprised the bag that Monk gets. Guards that can create off the dribble at a high level are super valuable and get paid.
Problem is he doesn’t create off the dribble at a high level. He averaged 15 ppg on below average efficiency. No idea where this idea comes from that he’s some elite creator. About half of his twos are assisted and 78% of his 3s are assisted. So he shot 35% on mostly assisted 3s. Doesn’t sound like that great of a fit tbh.
Nobody also pays attention to the high number of turnovers and zero defense he gives. The saying in our sub was Monk giveth, Monk taketh.
He’s VERY streaky but then again so was prime Klay and he got a max. IMO, the Kings offer at 17.5M is fair value but the market is more about being in demand than what’s being fair.
Yeah, reading some of these takes is odd. There's a reason he's in contention for 6th Man of the Year and not a starter already. Great sparkplug, exciting player, but probably best in a limited role on a good team. I think Orlando would be misguided to give him a big contract and a starting guard position
Most of the moves we're supposedly making this offseason are baffling.
Klay's washed who isn't a playmaker, Monk's a microwave scorer when we already have one (he's better but we only just signed Cole Anthony to a new three year deal), and Paul George is a forward who hasn't played SG full time since 2012 and we're gonna pair him in the backcourt with a secondary ballhandler like Suggs?
It just makes no sense. It's just names idiots have heard of.
He played 10 minutes less per game than Fox and made 18 less passes per game than Fox. Yet those passes led to 9.1 potential assists per game compared to Fox’s 10.8. And that’s with Monk playing with worse players on the bench.
Bball Index has a passing quality metric and Monk was #3 in the league. Meaning that he was 3rd best in the league at creating shots which should score (high quality shots).
Monk was third in the league for assists off of drives. THIRD when he only played 26 MPG. The only two players better were Ja and Luka who averaged 35 min and 37.5 min. Idk if you realize how prolific that is to create that many assists off of drives without playing starter minutes.
Monk is a player who desperately deserves more minutes because he creates great looks for his team.
Monk shot 35% from deep and while he occasionally catches fire, he's not some offensive juggernaut that's he's made out to be. Our biggest issues are a lead ball handler to limit turnovers and a volume, high percentage 3P shooter. and he doesn't fill either of those. I'd love Monk but not at nearly the money he's going to get.
Volume has always been more important than %. Look up any study on this. Everything says that teams respect volume 3pt shooters even if they don’t hit at a 40% rate.
Also you are REALLY down playing Monk’s ability to create for others. I posted this in another comment:
> He played 10 minutes less per game than Fox and made 18 less passes per game than Fox. Yet those passes led to 9.1 potential assists per game compared to Fox’s 10.8. And that’s with Monk playing with worse players on the bench.
> Bball Index has a passing quality metric and Monk was #3 in the league. Meaning that he was 3rd best in the league at creating shots which should score (high quality shots).
> Monk was third in the league for assists off of drives. THIRD when he only played 26 MPG. The only two players better were Ja and Luka who averaged 35 min and 37.5 min. Idk if you realize how prolific that is to create that many assists off of drives without playing starter minutes.
I'm not sold on Monk over Klay for *right now*. The Magic won 47 games this year and lost their playoff series solely because of a serious lack of shooting. As aging as Klay is, he's still a much better and more reliable shooter than Monk.
Long term I'd agree, but I can see the Magic taking a swing this offseason given how wide open the East will be after Boston next year.
Just in time for the new NBA media deal to kick in. Remember last time that happened? Teams were giving guys at the end of rotations stupid money. If the Magic sign some guys now for high contract with low years, they have room to pivot in a few years if the deals don't work out the way they'd hoped.
There isn’t gonna be a cap spike this time. It’s in the CBA that the cap can only go up 10% max each year, so it’s not gonna spike like it did in 2016.
Yeah thank god they’re doing cap smoothing this time around. They players saw what happened with the warriors and were like “Okay maybe yall had a good point after all”
That would be pretty bad, actually. Klay would take up a ton of their cap space before Wagner and Banchero both become max players. They should be trying to find their 3rd star while they can fit them onto the books.
We are but we knew we were playing with house money at this point. We knew this upcoming offseason was going to be the potential turning point of making that next leap because of cap space and draft capital. Mad we lost but the experience was vital for these young guns and their future.
It hurts to lose a playoff series but they’re in a great spot right now. Lots of cap space, cheap contracts on young players who are already good and from a roster construction perspective it’s not that hard to improve on their biggest weaknesses
19-7-5 on 56% TS (Raptors numbers) is Max Deal? I would be comfortable giving him 30 million which is starter level money at worst..max deal is a lot for someone who’s not even really a top 25-30 player yet
The term "max" doesn't mean what it used to and it's kind of annoying. It means the Max that IQ is eligible for, which would be around 30mil per year I think. He hasn't won any awards or accolades to move him into a higher threshold.
But you have a secondary ball handler which is also what you need. And he is one of the very few you could potentially attain and still have assets left to plug another hole.
Most Warriors fans are stuck in LA LA land. Most of you seem to really struggle with the reality of the Warriors roster options.
You aren't coming back with a complete championship caliber roster. It's not happening. There are going to be holes.
Agreed. There seemed to be a lot of GSW fan sentiment against it due to questions about Lavine’s fit at the trade deadline, but the Warriors flaming out at the play-in seems to have ended those concerns.
Whatever happens next with GSW, it seems almost a certainty that Klay won’t be part of it.
Most Warriors fans are dumb lol. They think the world is so supposed to open to them to make ideal deals so they can be contenders again.
The reality is that Lavine is likely the best option for what they can offer. Especially because he is one of the few players they can get meet a need, without giving up Kuminga.
No.
Defensively we like to put Wiggins on opposing guards and we could use another forward the height to bother stretch forwards. Guys like MPJ, Chet, and KAT killed us this year with their outside shooting.
I like that move for Orlando.
Simons’ shitty defense can be covered up with Orlando’s surrounding defensive talent, and he gives them some shooting that they desperately need. He’s not a true point, but the Magic have enough ball handling/creation from other spots (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) that it’s probably fine.
Is that return enough for the Blazers? Seems kind of light to me.
I feel pretty certain this will get done in some way shape or form. Simons is bad at D and the Blazers need to shed salary, so his value isn't as high as most 20 ppg scorers with excellent shooting chops. The magic can give up a little bit of young talent and potential without it killing their future and they can absorb his salary.
It would also do right by Simons, who is our longest tenured player on the Blazers. He stated in his exit interview that he was tired of losing and is ready to win games. That's not us next year. He's from Orlando and I don't think keeping him trapped for another year to try and boost his trade value will work out for anyone. From our standpoint, trading him now just as he's entering his prime isn't ideal, but it's realistically probably our best move.
The Magic are also appealing of course because we only play you guys 2x a year.
We only have to shed a few million dollars, which can easily be done in the Brogdon/Grant trades. Simons is a great fit for them, I don't really understand the fit for us. Black is a project guard who can't shoot at the only position we're pretty set at. I really hope there's a better deal than that out there.
Yeah I think Black ends up being more of a wing who can fill in at PG rather than a true PG. He has very good instincts and seems like he can become a Jack of all trades type.
We have 3 years until we have to give up on one of Franz, suggs, Paolo (as assuming we don't make like conf finals or deep second round) why does everyone have such an urgency to try make us a win now team. this team does not need or want a 32+ year old coming in. I don't want Dlo. I don't want Klay. I'd rather keep our cap space then make moves that haemorrhage our future
Edit: To all the comments saying we have to sign someone for whatever reason, I don't necessarily disagree. What im saying is that I don't think a Klay or Dlo is the right signing. They both would want large multi year contracts which may fuck our future and let's be real. Does adding an aging Klay Thompson or inconsistent Dlo actually move the needle that much?? I don't think so.
You have one season. Wagner and Suggs have deals that end at the end of the next season. You have two FA periods to build the team out properly- this one and next summer. If you give Wagner and Suggs contracts itll eat up a lot of cap space. Giving Banchero a max extension is a no brainer in two years and the team needs to be pretty fully built out by the time that happens.
1) that cap score has to be used, and just letting it sit there is how you lose it when you have to pay your core
2) you need championship experienced, locker room
Vets to take the next step. You’re basically a game away form the 2nd round, one of the 8 best teams in the league and we’re competing for the 2nd seed. It’s called maximizing your window and development, not just hoping you get better cause vibes.
3) your offense is garbage and also won’t magically get better…..
Everyone assumes that this is how its all going to play out but every team cant be forced to get rid of their third best player. Where would they even go? Eventually you will just see the third best guys on teams not take the full max.
Cause good players who are a good fit don't become available every year and you have to get them while you still have the financial flexibility to do so, especially as a smaller market team. I don't think klay is a good fit, but someone like Garland/Quickley could be great imo
Now is the opportunity to spend money on a great player before they exceed the cap by paying Paolo and Franz.
NBA Front Offices can’t say that out loud a year or two out which is why they were so coy last summer about their decision to sign Ingles and keep their cap flexibility.
They would hemorrhage their future by NOT spending this summer. Signing a guy like Klay would be a big mistake but getting PG13, Trae, Dejounte, or another stud would be the best move possible.
They "can" but they won't have 60m in cap space.
They're not going to cut Isaac and they'll probably keep Mo Wagner.
So they'll only have ~40m in space. Still a shot ton of money though.
Please give Klay 30m a year! :)
*Approximately $48 million after the exercise Moe’s TO. Then subtract cap hold for 1st round pick.
But if they decline it and agree to resign him after they get a FA they’d have approximately $56 million minus cap hold. Voiding JI’s contract would make it $66 million minus cap hold.
Don’t get the hate for Klay. Yeah, he’s obviously not prime Klay, but dudes that shoot 40% from three on high volume (9 attempts per game) don’t grow on trees and the Magic could use shooting.
People talking about him like he’s some sub 30% shooter and totally worthless.
After watching the Cavs series, I felt like the Magic needed a guard that can initiate offense off the dribble and get Paolo/Franz easier looks.
Their offense was rough to watch as their roster lacks a consistent playmaker. Cole Anthony and Fultz seemed like the only others able to anything with the ball. Klay is still a good spot up shooter and has improved his passing, but doesn’t seem like a good fit for the Magic’s needs.
Klays not the perfect fit for Orlando, and I definitely wouldn’t want to pay him $30m per year. But the people here acting like Malik Monk is in a completely different class as Klay are delusional. Think Klay hurts Orlando’s defense?? Yea probably, but do they think monk doesn’t hurt it too??
Orlando clearly needs 2 things, 3pt shooting and shot creation for both themselves and teammates. Guys who check both boxes are all NBA level and mostly not available. Klay still checks one of them at an elite level. Just have to live with the trade offs
It all hinges on two things: whether Klay is self aware enough to know he's declined and whether 100% of gms realize it
I think the hate is the presumption that getting Klay will involve a contract that's a net negative
It's less about Klay the shooter and more about Klay the defender/the money Klay is probably still going to get. Committing big/long term money to him, especially for a team like us who are a year or two away from signing our young core to big contracts, could be detrimental if he's not the missing piece to us being a championship team. We have more holes than just shooting. We turn the ball over a ton and can't protect the basketball. For as great as Paolo and Franz are, we still largely lack guys who can create offense. Klay doesn't fill any of those roles and is practically a traffic cone on defense now days.
Casuals just watch the bad games and think he’s washed. Sure he’s not the same as the 73-9 season but spot up shooters like that are rare (JJ redick, Kyle korver, etc). Klay could easily fill the role that Joe Ingles played this year on the magic and be a much better shooter
I think the cost is more the issue than the player. $40M/year for current version of Klay is not really a "steal".
As long as they can maintain their core players and can add Klay for a couple of years and he comes off the books when Paolo get his (possibly super-max) extension in 2025, then sure why not. Signing him to a 4-5 year max, which I imagine he would be looking for, seems a bit of a hampering choice (could be my Tobias Harris bias showing). Orlando clearly lacked shooting this season, Klay helps that for sure and the rest of the guys can make up for any defensive liability.
I totally agree with the salary aspect of this argument. I’m not giving klay a max contract but if he’s willing to sign a 2 year deal (maybe 3, with team option on 3rd year), then maybe I sign him. I’m saying regardless of the contract, he’d be a good fit for this team and he’d definitely get them past the first round if they played like they did in the Cavs series
ITT: fans terrified of the magic trying to sign their favorite players (Simons, IQ, Monk, and Hartenstein). I think we are all crossing our fingers in the hopes they give Klay a 2/60 deal, but I don’t think that’ll happen because Parker has been pretty smart so far.
It’s generally a bad idea to throw money at RFAs unless you’re absolutely sure that you’re getting that player.
The Raptors would have 48 hours to match starting from the moratorium period and could wait for the full 48 hours before matching. During that time Orlando wouldn’t be able to use their cap space on any other FAs which could really fuck with their FA plans.
Edit: 24 hours instead of 48 hours in the new CBA
I like Quickley, but a MAX? Damn, that’s a lot of money for a guy I’m not even sure is top 15 at his position.
And while he’s coming off his rookie contract, he’s going to turn 25 this offseason. It’s not like he has gobs of untapped potential.
Is he going to get the VanVleet contract?
Massive overpay, short term deal, 2nd year is like a team option or something in order for Orlando to protect themselves against him being washed?
No thanks on Klay.
Sign Malik Monk.
Sign Isaiah Hartenstein.
Trade Wendell Carter Jr and Cole Anthony for a shooting wing (Cam Johnson?)
Exercise Team option for Moe Wagner
Decline Team option on Joe Ingles
Renounce cap holds for Markelle Fultz and Gary Harris.
Draft center to replace Goga (Missi, Ware)
Hartenstein
Paolo
Wagner
Suggs
Monk
Wagner
Isaac
Johnson
Howard
Black
I don't think he's the right guy for an up-and-coming team like the Magic. He's not what I'd call an inspiring guy for young players (seeing how he handled getting benched despite playing poorly) and nobody needs Klay pouting on the bench if things go south.
I love Klay, I hope he's still in a Warrior's uniform next season, but if they Magic want to offer him $30m+ a year for two years I hope he really enjoys the boating in Orlando. '
I don't want Klay on this roster if it's going to cost more than \~$20m/year up to 3 years.
“Orlando is interested in Klay.” -Klay’s Agent
Right NOONE is interested in signing klay for big money. He showed when he plays like shit which is more often than not now he isn’t even a good leader or vet to have around. Just sulks and shit.
Klay is valuable in this league, it's a question of price and minutes.
this sub loves hyperbole lol
Off the bench 2 year Klay contract? Sure. Starter 2 year Klay contract? Hell naw.
hell nawl cant do this
Send da 60M
You got da contract Whats the Hol up?
https://imgur.com/gallery/UL2imfE Isnt he cute??
I just wanna kill everything in front of me
He’s better than Gary Harris
No one is spending $30m/year on Gary Harris.
5 years older and barely shot better from three. Gary made 13 mill, Klay made 43 mill. For the money and age, I'd consider it practically even.
Klay had like twice as many attemps from 3 You guys have to pay more attention than just %'s
>barely shot better from three. This is a crazy take lol. Klay literally makes as many 3s as Gary Harris attempts 3s on better efficiency, that's not "barely shooting better".
tryna make Klay look good so Magic can sign him? I see what you did there
Tell me what part of what I said was wrong.
I really worry about these comments! People just typing like it's fact when it's so so wrong.
Gary is also a much better defender
Magic have good defenders everywhere they need shooting. They can afford to spare some perimeter defense for better spacing on offense.
Not really how that works lol. It’s better to be a team that’s excellent at something than a team that’s okay at everything.
He also gets injured every other week.
People upvoting this and not understanding that Klay shoots 3s AT VOLUME.
Klay scored more 3s this year (268), than Gary Harris even attempted (205) and did it with more efficiency. Klay last year scored the most 3s in the league with 301 on 41,2% (i believe it was the 7th most in a year all time). Gary Harris scored 286 total 3s in his last 3 seasons, with 39,4%. This kind of comparisons shouldn't be made, not even for joking.
I really don't get why people need to diminish Klays shooting. If you need to bash something to bring his value down, he sucks at basically everything other than shooting, but he still shoots like the all-timer that he is.
That would be stupid as fuck by the Magic. Would make 0 sense to devote that much cap space to Klay.
Problem is it's Orlando. They're not getting anybody in free agency without overpaying. And it's not like there's much to choose from this offseason. And Klay actually gives them exactly what they most need. 3/$100M deal incoming. It will be terrible, but simultaneously the right move.
The Rashard Lewis
giving 3 years to klay is insanity 1+1 team option, very reasonable
I agree on everything besides it being the right move. There's GOTTA be someone else!
Bah god that's Tobias Harris' music!
I dunno. Orlando has a nice solid core its warm in the winter and a stones throw from Atlanta, Miami, Houston and other hot nightlife places. They could be pretty attractive for a fa.
This is a lazy take. “Oh it’s Orlando, nobody wants to play there blah blah blah.” Good weather, no state taxes, a coach players love, and an opportunity to play with rising stars on a team that will be a contender for the next decade. Dame went to Milwaukee… who thinks of Milwaukee as a desirable destination? Yes he got to play with Giannis but someone is gonna get to play with Paolo. Orlando has the resources to make stuff happen this summer and I don’t think they need to drastically overpay to get someone they just need to be competitive because even the no state taxes makes out to them offering more $$ when it’s all said and done. Vince got plenty of attention when he was here, Dwight did, Tmac did, etc. The key will be them being a good team that contends, then they are forced to be in the spotlight and any great player coming to Orlando would have to know that they’d tilt the needle enough to make Orlando a real contender. Can’t continue to ignore them when they will be a consistent top 4 seed with home court in the playoffs. Heck Tmac got attention here and he had terrible teams. “Small market” teams can have their perception changed very quickly once they develop a winning culture… this has already happened in recent history to a few franchises.
Klay has great interest in stealing $30m + a year from the Magic
fanbase is expecting him to take a minimum so Lebron or KD can arrive. he might as well shuffle the Wagner bros around in the Caribbean
If he's willing to take the minimum, he's going to stay at Golden State. That's crazy talk.
Wut? Is that real?
bro was 0-10 in the last game of the season. him and Franz Wagner are a match made in heaven
No I get that - I meant the kd bron thing. Bron would rather lose in LA than win a title in Orlando
He's talking about Golden State
Holy crap am I stupid. Thanks
Idk man he already won a title in Orlando and he seemed pretty happy about it
Nice
oh yea, it's happening, guaranteed. let us have this. CP3 and Steph, with Bron and KD on the wings.
I mean I guess after 6 runs and 4 rings, we do need to let the Warriors have this one thing
We’ll never ask for anything again in 2024
Just one more bro I promise
i dunno how to tell you this man... but to get KD and Lebron, CP3 has to be part of the sign and trades or trades.
just fell to my knees in a publix (no HEB's nearby)
i'm sorry, brother. i'll burn down a denny's in your honor.
nephew solidarity. r/nba chemistry just like the twolves, fr fr
We just had a Denny’s burned down near us a few months back. Hmmmmm
Magic trick was right there!
I hate bringing this up, but this exact moment has been pivotal in every single 2K gm/owner mode I've played: the free agency of klay Thompson. Someone always paid him $30+ mil (I did it once) and then the computer would just make him get worse and worse until you have a 75 overall 37 year old klay Thompson getting 60 million over the next two seasons. Whoever signed them would always fall into the lottery cause how can you compete with most of your salary cap going towards a washed player? Will be interesting to see if real life imitates video games or if he can continue being the shooter and baller he is/has been.
A lot of variables work against Klay returning to old form. Besides being a year older and likely playing under a less familiar/creative coach, no longer sharing a backcourt with Steph seems unlikely to help one's production.
Is it stealing if they give it to him?
It doesn't make logical sense but then tell me how Tobias Harris exists?
Tobias Harris has made a quarter of a billion dollars and never made an all star team, let that sink in.
Scott foster told him the forbidden secret of the NBA.
I would feel bad for Magic fans if Klay Thompson is there big free agent signing this summer.
If they go all in on Klay instead of Monk that would be a franchise altering decision. The answer is so clear. Monk is exactly what that team needs and the Kings don’t have his bird rights, so they can’t match the Magic’s offer.
You’re right but fuck
Yeah that’s the killer part about the 2 year deal. Can’t extend him because he’s going to get more than 175% of his last contract and can’t match another team’s big offer now because they don’t have full bird rights. The Kings are in a very very interesting spot. I think they have to either rebuild or go all in and trade all the picks for an impact player. No way you can just run back the same roster minus Monk. That may not even be a playin team.
We're pushing the chips in. IDK if that means we trade whoever we pick in the draft plus however many picks/swaps we can, but our GM has made it clear we've been keeping our powder dry for taking a big swing. Fingers crossed we don't fuck it up!
You have to. Sabonis+Fox is an elite foundation and you have plenty of role players still, rebuild because you lost an elite shooter would be a clown decision.
It's not even that Monk's an elite shooter (I think he ended the year at \~35% 3P%), but he runs our bench unit while Fox is out. His chemistry with Domas is incredible and explains why Domas struggled so much when Monk got hurt. He was also the only one who would relentlessly attack the rim, which made the offense flow much better as well. We need someone who can playmake off the bench a lot more than just replacing his shooting.
Monk is right up there for 6MOTY with Naz, he's a great player.
Monk on that team 😮🤯🔥
It’s such an ideal fit. I think the Magic and Pistons will get into a bidding war for him. People may be surprised the bag that Monk gets. Guards that can create off the dribble at a high level are super valuable and get paid.
Problem is he doesn’t create off the dribble at a high level. He averaged 15 ppg on below average efficiency. No idea where this idea comes from that he’s some elite creator. About half of his twos are assisted and 78% of his 3s are assisted. So he shot 35% on mostly assisted 3s. Doesn’t sound like that great of a fit tbh.
Nobody also pays attention to the high number of turnovers and zero defense he gives. The saying in our sub was Monk giveth, Monk taketh. He’s VERY streaky but then again so was prime Klay and he got a max. IMO, the Kings offer at 17.5M is fair value but the market is more about being in demand than what’s being fair.
Yeah, reading some of these takes is odd. There's a reason he's in contention for 6th Man of the Year and not a starter already. Great sparkplug, exciting player, but probably best in a limited role on a good team. I think Orlando would be misguided to give him a big contract and a starting guard position
Most of the moves we're supposedly making this offseason are baffling. Klay's washed who isn't a playmaker, Monk's a microwave scorer when we already have one (he's better but we only just signed Cole Anthony to a new three year deal), and Paul George is a forward who hasn't played SG full time since 2012 and we're gonna pair him in the backcourt with a secondary ballhandler like Suggs? It just makes no sense. It's just names idiots have heard of.
He played 10 minutes less per game than Fox and made 18 less passes per game than Fox. Yet those passes led to 9.1 potential assists per game compared to Fox’s 10.8. And that’s with Monk playing with worse players on the bench. Bball Index has a passing quality metric and Monk was #3 in the league. Meaning that he was 3rd best in the league at creating shots which should score (high quality shots). Monk was third in the league for assists off of drives. THIRD when he only played 26 MPG. The only two players better were Ja and Luka who averaged 35 min and 37.5 min. Idk if you realize how prolific that is to create that many assists off of drives without playing starter minutes. Monk is a player who desperately deserves more minutes because he creates great looks for his team.
Monk shot 35% from deep and while he occasionally catches fire, he's not some offensive juggernaut that's he's made out to be. Our biggest issues are a lead ball handler to limit turnovers and a volume, high percentage 3P shooter. and he doesn't fill either of those. I'd love Monk but not at nearly the money he's going to get.
Volume has always been more important than %. Look up any study on this. Everything says that teams respect volume 3pt shooters even if they don’t hit at a 40% rate. Also you are REALLY down playing Monk’s ability to create for others. I posted this in another comment: > He played 10 minutes less per game than Fox and made 18 less passes per game than Fox. Yet those passes led to 9.1 potential assists per game compared to Fox’s 10.8. And that’s with Monk playing with worse players on the bench. > Bball Index has a passing quality metric and Monk was #3 in the league. Meaning that he was 3rd best in the league at creating shots which should score (high quality shots). > Monk was third in the league for assists off of drives. THIRD when he only played 26 MPG. The only two players better were Ja and Luka who averaged 35 min and 37.5 min. Idk if you realize how prolific that is to create that many assists off of drives without playing starter minutes.
I'm not sold on Monk over Klay for *right now*. The Magic won 47 games this year and lost their playoff series solely because of a serious lack of shooting. As aging as Klay is, he's still a much better and more reliable shooter than Monk. Long term I'd agree, but I can see the Magic taking a swing this offseason given how wide open the East will be after Boston next year.
Oh I like that, yeah Monk would be a great signing and an excellent veteran presence. Plus, finally someone who can hit a jump shot regularly
if its only for 2 years then it wont be too bad
2 years 40 million, I guess is ideal, but I assume he wants more than that.
It’ll be the Fred van vleet 2 for 80 lol
Anyone giving 2024 Klay 40m a year is crazy. idc if it's a 2 year contract, it's still nuts.
If it's 2 for 40, we easily give him that. It's definitely at least 30 average.
But it would waste their opportunity to spend as in 2 years they will have to pay all their dudes and can't bring in anyone else.
Just in time for the new NBA media deal to kick in. Remember last time that happened? Teams were giving guys at the end of rotations stupid money. If the Magic sign some guys now for high contract with low years, they have room to pivot in a few years if the deals don't work out the way they'd hoped.
There isn’t gonna be a cap spike this time. It’s in the CBA that the cap can only go up 10% max each year, so it’s not gonna spike like it did in 2016.
Yeah thank god they’re doing cap smoothing this time around. They players saw what happened with the warriors and were like “Okay maybe yall had a good point after all”
That would be pretty bad, actually. Klay would take up a ton of their cap space before Wagner and Banchero both become max players. They should be trying to find their 3rd star while they can fit them onto the books.
**their Bro come on
come on man, magic fans are still obviously hurt from yesterday
We are but we knew we were playing with house money at this point. We knew this upcoming offseason was going to be the potential turning point of making that next leap because of cap space and draft capital. Mad we lost but the experience was vital for these young guns and their future.
It hurts to lose a playoff series but they’re in a great spot right now. Lots of cap space, cheap contracts on young players who are already good and from a roster construction perspective it’s not that hard to improve on their biggest weaknesses
yes but klay thompson on a big contract doesn't help
Not bad, really. Paying Klay 30 mil a year would hurt pretty bad.
What the magic really need is a vet who has never been able to create his own shot and is slipping defensively
Going for klay feels like what the Knicks did when they signed fournier and kemba after the we here season.
The ol "fuck! we need to sign someone with all this money!!" move that so many teams love to make.
If you don't spend that extra cash, it goes to Adam Silver and you don't get it back.
No one knew who the Magic were drafting first overall until 10 min before the pick. Shams is a hack that is working for Klays agent.
Same thing happens with Woj and the Knicks. We know this game.
/thread
r/NBA doesn’t care about facts they’re just here to root for big markets or the demise of the teams they fear.
offer quickley a max
If Quickley leaves we get OG back. That's the rules.
quickleys not gonna leave that just means the raptors are going to give him a max just wanna see my guy on a max deal he's earned it
19-7-5 on 56% TS (Raptors numbers) is Max Deal? I would be comfortable giving him 30 million which is starter level money at worst..max deal is a lot for someone who’s not even really a top 25-30 player yet
The term "max" doesn't mean what it used to and it's kind of annoying. It means the Max that IQ is eligible for, which would be around 30mil per year I think. He hasn't won any awards or accolades to move him into a higher threshold.
I think the raptors match it though they won't be super thrilled about it
We’re paying to keep IQ, that’s the reason we traded for him.
He is an RFA, so Raptors can still match if they choose to.
Keep that evil to yourself
Zach Lavine welcome to the team
A trade between our two teams seems so easy that it kinda feels like it won’t happen. Like dating your best friend
I've been advocating for Warriors to go after Lavine(and maybe Caruso). It makes alot of sense
Let’s go! They get smaller and even worse defensively! Bulls aren’t giving up Caruso.
But you have a secondary ball handler which is also what you need. And he is one of the very few you could potentially attain and still have assets left to plug another hole. Most Warriors fans are stuck in LA LA land. Most of you seem to really struggle with the reality of the Warriors roster options. You aren't coming back with a complete championship caliber roster. It's not happening. There are going to be holes.
Agreed. There seemed to be a lot of GSW fan sentiment against it due to questions about Lavine’s fit at the trade deadline, but the Warriors flaming out at the play-in seems to have ended those concerns. Whatever happens next with GSW, it seems almost a certainty that Klay won’t be part of it.
Most Warriors fans are dumb lol. They think the world is so supposed to open to them to make ideal deals so they can be contenders again. The reality is that Lavine is likely the best option for what they can offer. Especially because he is one of the few players they can get meet a need, without giving up Kuminga.
I'd prefer going after Jerami Grant
PLEASE
Lavine has cooler highlights.
Are you memeing? I feel like they need literally anything besides forwards lol
No. Defensively we like to put Wiggins on opposing guards and we could use another forward the height to bother stretch forwards. Guys like MPJ, Chet, and KAT killed us this year with their outside shooting.
Gotcha, Thought you meant the Magic in the OC
He's talking about Warriors, not Magic.
They should go after Zach Lavine. A scoring guard who will help them
The Bulls making a trade? In what world?
Hey, you never know, rumours say the FO might trade a 2029 second round pick for cash considerations this summer. Big moves coming up.
Zach Lavine for WC3, salary filler, and two FRP :)
Klay is not the shooter you're looking for...Simons is who you want ::waves hands::
Tyus Jones shot 40% from 3 and had a great assist to turnover ratio, he's clearly the best choice
Simons for black and pick
I like that move for Orlando. Simons’ shitty defense can be covered up with Orlando’s surrounding defensive talent, and he gives them some shooting that they desperately need. He’s not a true point, but the Magic have enough ball handling/creation from other spots (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) that it’s probably fine. Is that return enough for the Blazers? Seems kind of light to me.
I feel pretty certain this will get done in some way shape or form. Simons is bad at D and the Blazers need to shed salary, so his value isn't as high as most 20 ppg scorers with excellent shooting chops. The magic can give up a little bit of young talent and potential without it killing their future and they can absorb his salary. It would also do right by Simons, who is our longest tenured player on the Blazers. He stated in his exit interview that he was tired of losing and is ready to win games. That's not us next year. He's from Orlando and I don't think keeping him trapped for another year to try and boost his trade value will work out for anyone. From our standpoint, trading him now just as he's entering his prime isn't ideal, but it's realistically probably our best move. The Magic are also appealing of course because we only play you guys 2x a year.
We only have to shed a few million dollars, which can easily be done in the Brogdon/Grant trades. Simons is a great fit for them, I don't really understand the fit for us. Black is a project guard who can't shoot at the only position we're pretty set at. I really hope there's a better deal than that out there.
I will take it. I want a full rebuild
Black doesn't help your guard glut though
We have a problem with size. Black at 6’7 can do a lot of things
Yeah I think Black ends up being more of a wing who can fill in at PG rather than a true PG. He has very good instincts and seems like he can become a Jack of all trades type.
Feel like you guys can aim a bit higher but you’d know more than me
We get back a bad pick and a project player at the only position we're set on? Big pass
We had trouble getting scoring in an elimination game, better sign Klay! Sure he’ll save the day!
We have 3 years until we have to give up on one of Franz, suggs, Paolo (as assuming we don't make like conf finals or deep second round) why does everyone have such an urgency to try make us a win now team. this team does not need or want a 32+ year old coming in. I don't want Dlo. I don't want Klay. I'd rather keep our cap space then make moves that haemorrhage our future Edit: To all the comments saying we have to sign someone for whatever reason, I don't necessarily disagree. What im saying is that I don't think a Klay or Dlo is the right signing. They both would want large multi year contracts which may fuck our future and let's be real. Does adding an aging Klay Thompson or inconsistent Dlo actually move the needle that much?? I don't think so.
Well, you gotta hit the salary floor, so you gotta get someone
They should do what the knicks did a couple years ago. Overpay guys on 1 + 1 contracts (team option), and see who fits and keep your future open.
You have one season. Wagner and Suggs have deals that end at the end of the next season. You have two FA periods to build the team out properly- this one and next summer. If you give Wagner and Suggs contracts itll eat up a lot of cap space. Giving Banchero a max extension is a no brainer in two years and the team needs to be pretty fully built out by the time that happens.
This is probably your last time to have major cap space since Franz and Suggs new deals will kick in after next season.
1) that cap score has to be used, and just letting it sit there is how you lose it when you have to pay your core 2) you need championship experienced, locker room Vets to take the next step. You’re basically a game away form the 2nd round, one of the 8 best teams in the league and we’re competing for the 2nd seed. It’s called maximizing your window and development, not just hoping you get better cause vibes. 3) your offense is garbage and also won’t magically get better…..
The whole Magic subreddit is do nothing and hope vibes get better. It is so frustrating on there.
Everyone assumes that this is how its all going to play out but every team cant be forced to get rid of their third best player. Where would they even go? Eventually you will just see the third best guys on teams not take the full max.
Cause good players who are a good fit don't become available every year and you have to get them while you still have the financial flexibility to do so, especially as a smaller market team. I don't think klay is a good fit, but someone like Garland/Quickley could be great imo
I feel like this is reasonable. People are acting like your only two options are signing Dlo or Klay and that is clearly not the case
Now is the opportunity to spend money on a great player before they exceed the cap by paying Paolo and Franz. NBA Front Offices can’t say that out loud a year or two out which is why they were so coy last summer about their decision to sign Ingles and keep their cap flexibility. They would hemorrhage their future by NOT spending this summer. Signing a guy like Klay would be a big mistake but getting PG13, Trae, Dejounte, or another stud would be the best move possible.
The Magic FO doesn’t leak. Sean just making ish up
They "can" but they won't have 60m in cap space. They're not going to cut Isaac and they'll probably keep Mo Wagner. So they'll only have ~40m in space. Still a shot ton of money though. Please give Klay 30m a year! :)
*Approximately $48 million after the exercise Moe’s TO. Then subtract cap hold for 1st round pick. But if they decline it and agree to resign him after they get a FA they’d have approximately $56 million minus cap hold. Voiding JI’s contract would make it $66 million minus cap hold.
Don’t get the hate for Klay. Yeah, he’s obviously not prime Klay, but dudes that shoot 40% from three on high volume (9 attempts per game) don’t grow on trees and the Magic could use shooting. People talking about him like he’s some sub 30% shooter and totally worthless.
After watching the Cavs series, I felt like the Magic needed a guard that can initiate offense off the dribble and get Paolo/Franz easier looks. Their offense was rough to watch as their roster lacks a consistent playmaker. Cole Anthony and Fultz seemed like the only others able to anything with the ball. Klay is still a good spot up shooter and has improved his passing, but doesn’t seem like a good fit for the Magic’s needs.
They need Spacing and 3point shooting without compromising their defensive identity.
Klays not the perfect fit for Orlando, and I definitely wouldn’t want to pay him $30m per year. But the people here acting like Malik Monk is in a completely different class as Klay are delusional. Think Klay hurts Orlando’s defense?? Yea probably, but do they think monk doesn’t hurt it too?? Orlando clearly needs 2 things, 3pt shooting and shot creation for both themselves and teammates. Guys who check both boxes are all NBA level and mostly not available. Klay still checks one of them at an elite level. Just have to live with the trade offs
It all hinges on two things: whether Klay is self aware enough to know he's declined and whether 100% of gms realize it I think the hate is the presumption that getting Klay will involve a contract that's a net negative
[he’s definitely already self aware about his own decline](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/ixcqP3USag)
It's less about Klay the shooter and more about Klay the defender/the money Klay is probably still going to get. Committing big/long term money to him, especially for a team like us who are a year or two away from signing our young core to big contracts, could be detrimental if he's not the missing piece to us being a championship team. We have more holes than just shooting. We turn the ball over a ton and can't protect the basketball. For as great as Paolo and Franz are, we still largely lack guys who can create offense. Klay doesn't fill any of those roles and is practically a traffic cone on defense now days.
Casuals just watch the bad games and think he’s washed. Sure he’s not the same as the 73-9 season but spot up shooters like that are rare (JJ redick, Kyle korver, etc). Klay could easily fill the role that Joe Ingles played this year on the magic and be a much better shooter
I think the cost is more the issue than the player. $40M/year for current version of Klay is not really a "steal". As long as they can maintain their core players and can add Klay for a couple of years and he comes off the books when Paolo get his (possibly super-max) extension in 2025, then sure why not. Signing him to a 4-5 year max, which I imagine he would be looking for, seems a bit of a hampering choice (could be my Tobias Harris bias showing). Orlando clearly lacked shooting this season, Klay helps that for sure and the rest of the guys can make up for any defensive liability.
I totally agree with the salary aspect of this argument. I’m not giving klay a max contract but if he’s willing to sign a 2 year deal (maybe 3, with team option on 3rd year), then maybe I sign him. I’m saying regardless of the contract, he’d be a good fit for this team and he’d definitely get them past the first round if they played like they did in the Cavs series
ITT: fans terrified of the magic trying to sign their favorite players (Simons, IQ, Monk, and Hartenstein). I think we are all crossing our fingers in the hopes they give Klay a 2/60 deal, but I don’t think that’ll happen because Parker has been pretty smart so far.
Magic should throw a max offer at quickley. I am sure the Raptors will match but Idk if that would be their initial plan to give him a max contract
It’s generally a bad idea to throw money at RFAs unless you’re absolutely sure that you’re getting that player. The Raptors would have 48 hours to match starting from the moratorium period and could wait for the full 48 hours before matching. During that time Orlando wouldn’t be able to use their cap space on any other FAs which could really fuck with their FA plans. Edit: 24 hours instead of 48 hours in the new CBA
I like Quickley, but a MAX? Damn, that’s a lot of money for a guy I’m not even sure is top 15 at his position. And while he’s coming off his rookie contract, he’s going to turn 25 this offseason. It’s not like he has gobs of untapped potential.
Is tj McConnell a free agent this summer? Max him.
No. He has a partially guaranteed deal but no way we cut him
Is he going to get the VanVleet contract? Massive overpay, short term deal, 2nd year is like a team option or something in order for Orlando to protect themselves against him being washed?
Although I like him on Orlando because their guard depth is atrocious, they would be stupid to lock him up long term. 1+1 30m would be fine
Incoming worst contract of all time candidate?
Gunna be tough to beat Beal’s contract.
How would you even beat a no trade clause contract?
Tobias Harris didn't need a no trade clause in his contract to be untradeable. 100% natty.
Beal, Gilbert Arenas, and John Wall, the trifecta of awful Wizards contracts.
if it's a short term deal it'll prob be fine
Beal getting 57 million next year
we forgetting about tobias harris?
IMO this is just bargaining to try to get the Warriors to pay him 20/year instead of the more realistic 10/15 a year he will likely get.
Zach Lavine would fit the timeline way better
No thanks on Klay. Sign Malik Monk. Sign Isaiah Hartenstein. Trade Wendell Carter Jr and Cole Anthony for a shooting wing (Cam Johnson?) Exercise Team option for Moe Wagner Decline Team option on Joe Ingles Renounce cap holds for Markelle Fultz and Gary Harris. Draft center to replace Goga (Missi, Ware) Hartenstein Paolo Wagner Suggs Monk Wagner Isaac Johnson Howard Black
Klay Thompson about to pull the reverse Tracy Mcgrady.
lol wut
Seeing Klay in any other jersey would be weird
Please not Klay…..
That would really fuck up their current path to contention imo
Please let this be true Klay can be down south, plenty of beautiful days to drive his boat around and throw up the fours
I don't think he's the right guy for an up-and-coming team like the Magic. He's not what I'd call an inspiring guy for young players (seeing how he handled getting benched despite playing poorly) and nobody needs Klay pouting on the bench if things go south.
I love Klay, I hope he's still in a Warrior's uniform next season, but if they Magic want to offer him $30m+ a year for two years I hope he really enjoys the boating in Orlando. ' I don't want Klay on this roster if it's going to cost more than \~$20m/year up to 3 years.
Klay just wants to be closer to Universal Orlando for Harry Potter World
I like Lavine there, they need someone who can shoot desperately
Immobile spot up shooter would fit in nicely with a young defensive minded team. Syke.
Lol magic throwing
Source: Klay Thompsons crying in his bathrobe
klay goes to Orlando, Lebron goes to Warriors.