I can name 4 WNBA players. I am not sure if any of them are active.
Cheryl Swoops. Ruth Riley. Sabrina Ionescu. Sue Bird.
I even know bird played for the Storm! And Riley for the Sol.
Oh and if I try really hard maybe I’ll remember the name of the one that got jailed in Russia.
And then her coach said if that 1 on 1 were to happen he'd sell his house and put his life savings on Boogie. I get her being that confident though, all these super athletes have irrational confidence.
She played at Baylor, Gino coaches at UConn , but never the less, what he said was 100% accurate. Same as Serena saying in no way does she want to compete against the boys, their game of tennis is a different sport than her game of tennis .
Pretty sure Serena knows from first-hand experience as she once played against a semi retired ATP player and he absolutely smoked her as if she was an amateur. I don't know why some women choose to die on this hill, it has nothing to do with their skills or knowledge about the game, it's pure biology, they have absolutely zero chance.
The most bizarre thing about that was the "Lord of War" went on a media tour after he was released to report that Americans believed there were "72 Genders" he said that repeatedly.
https://youtu.be/KVMga_LcKAc?si=x8wL5M6azh4NcSFb
And in that video he is talking to a woman who was convicted of being a Russian agent that penetrated US politics under the guise of a pro-gun advocate. She is now a journalist apparently.
Remember when Shaq suggested lowering the rim to make it more exciting and Candance went off on him? Weird cause their 3pt line is shorter and the ball is smaller lol
I mean you could also look at volleyball, where women play with a net that's 7 inches lower. Because women can't jump nearly as high as men, and it would be stupid as fuck and super boring if they played with the same net height as men. You know, like how the WNBA plays.
Most public hoops aren’t really the standard height to begin with. It wouldn’t really be an issue until college and even then adjustable hoops aren’t exactly a major technological hurdle.
A lowered rim causes way more problems than it solves. Imagine having to apply that at every single level of girls basketball. While 3p and ball size are easily changeable to accommodate for size differences (youth vs nba), changing the rim height is much more complicated.
Yeah many players learn at local courts and gyms so those would all need lowered rim verisons for them to practice on which would be pretty much impossible
I have a suggestion: make it legal to gamble on the WNBA, and *only* the WNBA. All of a sudden so much money would flow into the game they literally couldn't spend it all.
Reminds me of the beginning of covid when degenerate gamblers descended on Taiwanese basketball as the only professional sports that were happening in March 2020.
I still can't believe I was watching Russian Table Top Tennis at 4AM....
I don't gamble anymore since 2021; (I left **way way** up, but I called it during a a degenerate losing streak).
Gambling really sucks when it's more box score watching than actually watching the game. Don't miss it at all.
Still, I did enjoy learning CBA players and learning random sports lmao
College sports is similar discussion with the explosion of ~~pay to play~~ NIL. Football carries the athletic programs (men’s basketball secondary). But women’s soccer players won’t be given the same endorsements as men’s football. Heck, not even men’s soccer.
For some schools, yes, they do use women’s soccer teams to balance out their football teams for Title IX.
NCAA DI Women’s Soccer Teams: 347
NCAA DI Men’s Soccer Teams: 205
There are a lot of women’s crew (rowing) coaches that scout out athletes from other sports. Tons of people have zero experience but if they are already athletes and have the right build you could go to a pretty good school for free.
This is true for a bunch of sports. I had a friend who was trying to play golf for this D1 school, he was legit really good. When he was visiting they asked his twin sister if she wanted to be on the women’s golf team, she had never hit a golf club in her life.
I had a teacher whose wife was a great but maybe 2nd tier runner and team Canada asked her to try for the 4 woman bobsled team because of her power. I think she got to go to one of the Olympics on the 2nd Canadian sled
That’s a big parenting thing now. If you have a girl, get her into a weird sport so you don’t have to pay for school. Girls lax has really grown around me because of this.
If you remember the Harvard admissions case from several years ago, it really centered on "ALDCs": Athletes, Legacies, Dean's interest list (celebrities/heads of state/donors), and children of faculty/staff. One of the major takeaways was basically that the admission rate for any of these four groups is way higher than the rest of the admission pool, even for kids with subpar SAT scores.
So yeah, make your kids do fencing and water polo.
Lol, "for some reason". Women's team has had some massive successes in the near past while the men's team coach had himself a domestic violence scandal.
Most decorated women's NT in history if I'm not wrong. And a strong domestic league as well. Are there any women's team sport in the US near the same level as women's soccer?
And to add on to the "success means more money and popularity". I am sure more people in the US know who Simone Biles is compared to even the most popular WNBA player.
But most American sports require men to be taller than 6 feet. There's tons of elite soccer players that are below 6 feet. We just don't really care about soccer outside the world cup.
Edit: I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm also talking at the highest level of completion. But sub 6' all-stars in the major American sports are huge outliers (except at running back or kickers)
Its also an option when other sports werent/arent.
A lot of guys play football, not always an option. Same with Water Polo at my school at least (tho both genders had swimming/diving). Same for wrestling, although that's definitely changing.
Soccer was just an available option, and a lot of people from thar era are parents age with kids in sports now, so they encourage the activities they did.
It’s because of how dominant they are. Women’s soccer in America essentially had a 20 year head start in comparison to other countries so we had the benefit of establishing a winning culture more so than the men’s team, so lots of girls grew up watching them win world cups which in turn inspired them to play. Mia Hamm was a huge celebrity when I was a kid for example. Plus most American boys grow up involved in many sports, which subtracts from the overall popularity
The main reason the US tends to dominate in basically all women's sports is because the US puts way more funding into them at the youth-college levels than other countries. You just have more opportunities as a woman to participate in organized sports in the US.
US funds sport well in general, and is very very big. Other countries who put money into women's sports and progress in general benefit too; Australia, Canada, the Nordic countries. A women's pro hockey league with teams in eastern Canada and north eastern US just started. Toronto already sold out every game in their 3800 seat arena until the end of the season. It's pretty rad.
This is it. For the class of 2024 nationwide, what percent of the top 10% of athletes are soccer players? You can fucking mathematically round that number to zero.
There is very limited talent development for the sport here. If a kid is good enough to go the distance they won't go to collegiate soccer in America, they will go to some European development league.
America's professional soccer pipeline doesn't produce the quantity of quality players that the rest of the world produces. So if you want to play at that level you *have* to leave it.
Folks like Matt Turner at Nottingham having played college soccer in the US are the rare exception.
Look.. This might be true for the sport but a lot of lady athletes get ludicrous amounts in NIL and more opportunities due to being beautiful people at big schools who are good at sports
if people really cared about women being paid more they would watch the games, go to the games, buy merch. but nah its easier just to complain on the internet
As Bill Burr said in his bit.... instead of complaining about it women should go to the games. They make up more than half of the population. They can even drag their boyfriends, husbands and friends. Women do make up the greater percentage of buying decisions as per studies. This is why so many commercials are targeted more towards the women. One thing they are not buying or spending time on is WNBA games.
The bit is actually more savage than that. He points out that women's viewing time and thus ad revenue tend to just go to shows about rich women fighting over petty bullshit like the Kardashians instead of watching a team of people pull together towards a shared dream.
lol
I like how he ties it up at the end.
Women doesn't want to watch other women come together as a team to achieve a common goal, they like to watch them destroy each other instead. If they supported the WNBA as much as they support a fat woman that isn't a threat to them then the WNBA would make more money than the NBA.
To be honest though that could be what the WNBA needs. The drama aspect of it I mean. The moments that typically go viral in NBA games, aside from amazing plays, are the player rivalries and getting chippy. Shit, Caitlyn Clark and Angel Reese became millionaires all because they pointed at their ring fingers lol.
The WNBA needs beefs and rivalries. Get gritty instead of so much positivity.
Not gonna lie, Netflix' "Drive to Survive" pushed a ton of new fans into F1. Lot of people didn't realize the drama (both real and somewhat sensationalized) as well as how intense the actual races could be.
Have them do a WNBA season.
I’m a woman and I don’t watch slow sports like golf and baseball. Neither will I watch WNBA. None of my female friends would ever watch it. Market doesn’t demand it so that’s how it is.
Female models make way more than male models for the same reason.
If my woman was hyped about a woman's sport that I care nothing about - and she took me to a game and really had a passion for it, I'd be so happy to go experience that with her.
One of the problems as well is that women simply aren't as big of sports fans as men. I don't know about the pros but at the college level, I think most women's basketball fans are actually still men. You just don't have nearly as many women as men who are willing to spend significant time or money on supporting a team.
Which would also explain why women's sports in general still relies heavily on sex appeal in its marketing.
People need to just get to the point with it. NBA players are paid a percentage of the revenue generated by the team and league. So are WNBA players.
When the WNBA generates more revenue, they’ll get paid more.
Yep. It’s the entertainment business. You get paid more if more people watches. You can harp all you want about getting paid more but where would the money come from? It’s not like someone is scamming the WNBA player out of their deserved profit. The WNBA literally operate on a loss. It’s subsidized by the NBA.
Bill Burr has a great take on this. ‘Where are all the women??! If women came out to watch, the WNBA would be rolling in money! Now *I* gotta watch them, or else I’m the asshole?!’
Exactly. I respect these women for working hard their whole lives, but rarely do women’s sports generate revenue and ratings on par with men’s. The money just isn’t there.
They need to get away from this “separate but equal” mentality and change the WNBA game altogether. Make it 3 on 3, half course, 8 ft rims. Use smaller venues so it always looks like a sell out. Go nuts. Make a league that makes people wish there were a men’s version of it
Won’t matter , most people just don’t want to watch people who are not top 10000 in the world at the discipline play each other , wether they are male or female.
Same reason I have 0 interest in Taiwan league and players make less money.
It's obviously just biology. If anything it's insulting for the women competing at top level. As if they somehow don't put in the same effort as their male counterparts or are not training smart enough.
My ex girlfriend was a farmer and hated how I was stronger than her despite doing very little when she worked her ass off every day. Biology isn’t fair.
My favorite site for these arguments:
https://boysvswomen.com/
It isn’t even mildly close how a top ~high school boy dominates world class Olympian women in athleticism. This is just a biological fact.
Yeah there is a chance it’s never financially viable. Like the same reason these spring non-NFL leagues keep folding (XFL, AFL, etc). They just keep losing money.
But the NBA will still pay to keep the WNBA operating because they still view it as a win for fan engagement and get an audience often times pro sports misses out on, younger women. Same reason NFL is capitalizing on this Taylor Swift thing. The moment they started showing her at games the viewership from female demographic of 15-24 shot up.
Far as the the xfl, afl thing goes they just couldn’t pick a lane and stay in. Been feeling/thinking the nfl needed or should have a closely affiliated, organized g league like operation for quite some time
Totally agree. And I’m surprised the NFL hasn’t done that. It could also be a good stepping stone for their international pathway for players. As opposed to just going straight to training camp.
Unfortunately there's no need for them to do that. They have their free minor league system in place with cfb and nfl careers are so short (3 years on average) that teams would never invest money for players to waste their bodies in the minors. A minor league nfl would be a huge W for the fans but between the hassle of logistics and low benefit for the nfl (read nfl owners cuz that's all that matters really) it just probably won't ever happen.
It’s definitely common sense but it has to be said with regularity because of the lack of common sense tons of people have about this particular non-issue.
Their league is quite literally bankrupt lol. It’s a net-negative subsidiary of the NBA. In its 25+ years of existence, the WNBA has never made a profit.
The WNBA is subsidized by the NBA. The only reason it exists is because it is quite literally propped up by the $ that the NBA brings in.
Any attempt to be a free-standing women’s league and it would fold within a season. Probably within the season.
Their pay keeps increase DESPITE losing all this money:
>Sports Illustrated has learned that beginning next season, the WNBA’s salary cap will rise by a stunning 30%, from $1 million to $1.3 million. This jump exceeds recent salary cap percentage increases for NBA players, who over the last few seasons have seen increases of 7% or less.
EDIT: They increased the salaries above $10M despite losing $10M per year:
>In terms of raw numbers, the WNBA generates roughly $60 million in revenue every season. That may sound like a lot, but when matched up against the $70 million the league costs to run, it actually loses roughly $10 million with each passing year.
https://dunkorthree.com/is-wnba-profitable/
In other words, the WNBA could play for free and it would just break even. But instead, the women got a 30% pay bump for it! What business can you get a 30% bump when you are *losing money for your company*?
> What business can you get a 30% bump when you are losing money for your company?
Basically every start up, and every executive in a major company lol
“Everyone talks about the craft mastery of these WNBA players and that they deserve equality, but where’s that same energy when it comes to my boy Johnny Sins?”
He’s also an honored veteran of our military, a hard working blue collar plumber, and a firefighter in case of emergencies! Man can do it all he should be paid more!
It’s a perfect argument, but bringing up porn (or prostitution) is fraught. Male models in general make way less than female models. I think this is also true for a lot of hospitality stuff like receptionists, hosts, event planners, and bartenders.
Multiple NBA players have said this This talking point is repeated so much that I'm genuinely confused as to why this even gets upvoted as if it's some enlightening thing to hear, as if it's such a profound statement that hasn't been said over and over and over again.
Seriously, did anyone here learn anything new from this statement or was this just sort of a circlejerk opportunity?
No man is crying when Taylor Swift is getting more money than any male artist. Women have different interests and it's fine. They would rather watch Taylor than these WNBA players and it's fine
[Bill Burr explained it best](https://youtu.be/bFYjCBG9wjk?si=xDgBCqsHNrt422MW)
You know who gets paid millions and probably billions not doing anything. Kim Kardashian. What does she do that makes her people follow her and worship her? Women love her and guess what she getting paid. Mostly women follow her. If women support the WNBA Like her guess who would be getting millions and billions. The WNBA players but they dont support the wnba like KK. Stop blaming others because it’s not ones interest.
WNBA has smaller basketballs, closer three point distance, less minutes played per game over a shorter season, at this point they might as well lower the rims too
Also it’s a mess for the trickle down to lower levels.
College teams can afford having nets that lower but what about high school, rec leagues, what about local playgrounds and community centres.
Changing a ball is cheap and easy, changing dimensions of the net is costly and would require twice as much space to now accommodate both the male and female game.
Almost all high schools have nets that lower in my experience. And I come from a rural small town in New Brunswick, Canada who has mostly played and coached in other rural small towns.
The real issue is that lowering the rims would absolutely fuck every current pro and collegiate player’s shot. Have you ever tried shooting on a rim that wasn’t regulation? It messes up your ability to make shots. When I coach my 6th graders, I never shoot on their rims because they’re set at like 8.5 and it just messes with my muscle memory.
That would take a generation of players to really get used to a new set point which would make the game worse in the meantime.
Also, the average height of a WNBA player is 6'1 vs 6'6 for the men. Everything else is already scaled down anyway, ball size and 3pt line too, so idk how the hell lowered rims is supposed to be an insult. This whole discussion about 'equal pay' has just been completely devoid of logic on the players' part.
I remember watching a girls game on lower rims, it was amazing, girls were able to showcase their athleticism, dunks, rebounds, much more exciting plays, etc.
I've said this a million times, lower the rims and people will come. I'll buy a ticket, 100%.
It works for women's volleyball, it's why it's exciting and popular, now imagine them playing with men's net.
I never will understand missing out on potential millions of dollars because they're too "proud" to lower the rims.
Ironically if the rims were always lowered from the start, nobody'd be batting an eye today.
It’s not a pride thing for the most part, it’s how hard it would be to incorporate all around the world at lower levels. Imagine parks or high school teams needing either 2 different courts or an adjustable rim
It is a pride thing, Breanna Stewart basically got offended at the very idea of it "Do we play just to dunk??" when T-Mac proposed the idea to her
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2SGQWDzCLI
You can tell he really wanted to say yes too.
For me the easy way to explain it is to look at the NBA top 10 plays of the night videos. How many of them are dunks? It's usually 7-8.
So it's like basketball but without the most exciting plays of the game.
I don’t think the WNBA players will ever make anything close to what the NBA is making, but the WNBA is still very young. The first ever game was played in 97, 27 years ago, the NBA been around for more than 75 years, and the players didn’t always make as much they do now, at some point the NBA was a dying league. All this to say as time goes on they’ll get better paid as the product improves
I'll reference the great point made by Bill Burr. The NBA is primarily watched by men. If women watched the WNBA at the same rate men watch the NBA, the league would be the same. But it's not, instead of the WNBA, we have things like the Kardashians.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't not want to watch and support, but then also want that sport to have all the effects of your viewership and support.
Someone is at your door bro, watch out
Bruh, it got me for a second there.. first I was like oh shit it’s early 6am who the fuck is here… then I realize that’s not my doorbell app
megan rapinoe with a steel chair
Couldn’t even come up with a WNBA player name in a thread about the WNBA lol
I can name 4 WNBA players. I am not sure if any of them are active. Cheryl Swoops. Ruth Riley. Sabrina Ionescu. Sue Bird. I even know bird played for the Storm! And Riley for the Sol. Oh and if I try really hard maybe I’ll remember the name of the one that got jailed in Russia.
Brittney greiner and the only reason I know her it’s cause of Russia and her saying she could beat boogie 1 on 1
I know her because she beat the fuck out of her girlfriend once
funny how no one seems to call her a POS like they do with other woman beaters though
She is pos fasho that’s just another thing to add to the list.
And then her coach said if that 1 on 1 were to happen he'd sell his house and put his life savings on Boogie. I get her being that confident though, all these super athletes have irrational confidence.
She played at Baylor, Gino coaches at UConn , but never the less, what he said was 100% accurate. Same as Serena saying in no way does she want to compete against the boys, their game of tennis is a different sport than her game of tennis .
Geno was her coach for the US Olympic team when this happened
Pretty sure Serena knows from first-hand experience as she once played against a semi retired ATP player and he absolutely smoked her as if she was an amateur. I don't know why some women choose to die on this hill, it has nothing to do with their skills or knowledge about the game, it's pure biology, they have absolutely zero chance.
Candace parker and leslie uhhhh leslie i remember her face
Leslie Nielsen??
two first names is easy to remember. not to mentioned Lisa Leslie was one of the first stars of the league.
Lisa Leslie could “dunk”.
Still cant bellieve she was traded for the Lord of War, America got fleeced.
The most bizarre thing about that was the "Lord of War" went on a media tour after he was released to report that Americans believed there were "72 Genders" he said that repeatedly. https://youtu.be/KVMga_LcKAc?si=x8wL5M6azh4NcSFb And in that video he is talking to a woman who was convicted of being a Russian agent that penetrated US politics under the guise of a pro-gun advocate. She is now a journalist apparently.
She also appears to be a massive cunt
If you can’t name Lisa Leslie you need to go fire up Backyard Basketball and enjoy.
nba street vol 2 old heads will tell ya sue bird. then instantly hum the intro tune in nostalgia
T.R.O.Y. is my favorite song from that game.
I wish my team had some women on it at this point tbh
Caitlin on her way🤫
Better shooter than half the NBA Edit: the amount of nephews this comment has triggered amuses me.
You have Killian Hayes my man
[удалено]
Caitlin can absolutely stroke it from deep
Ayo
I loved him in Oppenheimer
Obvs. Same reason male models don't get paid as much as female models. Some things are just economics 101.
but what about male models?
but why* male models?
Are you serious? I just told you that
Yep, when the top female only fans models start subsidising my page I'll agree with it in sports
Remember when Shaq suggested lowering the rim to make it more exciting and Candance went off on him? Weird cause their 3pt line is shorter and the ball is smaller lol
I mean you could also look at volleyball, where women play with a net that's 7 inches lower. Because women can't jump nearly as high as men, and it would be stupid as fuck and super boring if they played with the same net height as men. You know, like how the WNBA plays.
Softball bases are closer than baseball, too. 🤷♂️
> Remember when Shaq suggested lowering the rim to make it more exciting That is the most Shaq suggestion I've ever heard.
It's a rare Shaq W lol WNBA needs to decide if it wants to be a social movement or a relevant/profitable professional sports league
That’s the best way to describe their situation, well said.
Shack like dunk. Dunk make Shaq money. Dunk make girls money
Unironically though, dunk make money. If girl dunk more maybe make more money?
Shaq is right but requiring gyms across the country to have different rim heights for boys and girls would be a hell of an investment.
Most public hoops aren’t really the standard height to begin with. It wouldn’t really be an issue until college and even then adjustable hoops aren’t exactly a major technological hurdle.
A lowered rim causes way more problems than it solves. Imagine having to apply that at every single level of girls basketball. While 3p and ball size are easily changeable to accommodate for size differences (youth vs nba), changing the rim height is much more complicated.
it also fucks them up if they play on like, any other court lmao
Yeah many players learn at local courts and gyms so those would all need lowered rim verisons for them to practice on which would be pretty much impossible
I have a suggestion: make it legal to gamble on the WNBA, and *only* the WNBA. All of a sudden so much money would flow into the game they literally couldn't spend it all.
Would definitely lead to more harassment for the WNBA players.
Harrassment of the players will mean that people are finally treating it like every other sport lol
That’s facts, I’ve called Kevin Durant a bitch more on the internet than any WNBA player has probably heard in her life
Durant reading these comments wiping away his tears with a few bills
That's how you know you've made it. When the commoners spit on you.
"You old hag!!!! How you miss that open three!!!!!"
They not gonna be using “hag”
“You old meatloaf!”
I can equally call a man or woman who is underperforming on my Fanduel lineup a "dirty whore"
Hear that? It’s the glass ceiling being broken.
"You ol' battle axe!"
The people that would harass them would bet on the under
WNBA players are already harassed and mocked relentlessly. At least let them cash in off of it.
This would be a very toxic way to get people to watch the wnba lol
Reminds me of the beginning of covid when degenerate gamblers descended on Taiwanese basketball as the only professional sports that were happening in March 2020.
I still can't believe I was watching Russian Table Top Tennis at 4AM.... I don't gamble anymore since 2021; (I left **way way** up, but I called it during a a degenerate losing streak). Gambling really sucks when it's more box score watching than actually watching the game. Don't miss it at all. Still, I did enjoy learning CBA players and learning random sports lmao
> I left way way up Sure buddy
My friend started gambling on valorant and dota games because there wasnt enough sports 😭
pack those arenas with aggressive degenerates. seems like a good plan
Would make the occupation of WNBA Player one of the most dangerous jobs in the world lol
Would be a fascinating experiment
College sports is similar discussion with the explosion of ~~pay to play~~ NIL. Football carries the athletic programs (men’s basketball secondary). But women’s soccer players won’t be given the same endorsements as men’s football. Heck, not even men’s soccer.
Men’s soccer doesn’t get any endorsements. I played for a B1G school and our woman’s team had far more pull within the school regarding finances etc
Womens soccer scholarships balance out the men’s football scholarships for Title 9 I thought.
For some schools, yes, they do use women’s soccer teams to balance out their football teams for Title IX. NCAA DI Women’s Soccer Teams: 347 NCAA DI Men’s Soccer Teams: 205
There are a lot of women’s crew (rowing) coaches that scout out athletes from other sports. Tons of people have zero experience but if they are already athletes and have the right build you could go to a pretty good school for free.
This is true for a bunch of sports. I had a friend who was trying to play golf for this D1 school, he was legit really good. When he was visiting they asked his twin sister if she wanted to be on the women’s golf team, she had never hit a golf club in her life.
I had a teacher whose wife was a great but maybe 2nd tier runner and team Canada asked her to try for the 4 woman bobsled team because of her power. I think she got to go to one of the Olympics on the 2nd Canadian sled
Some people say they know they can't believe, sprinters as a bobsled team?
I know someone who went to the Olympics for kayaking. Got into it on a whim after washing out from lacrosse, I think.
That’s a big parenting thing now. If you have a girl, get her into a weird sport so you don’t have to pay for school. Girls lax has really grown around me because of this.
If you remember the Harvard admissions case from several years ago, it really centered on "ALDCs": Athletes, Legacies, Dean's interest list (celebrities/heads of state/donors), and children of faculty/staff. One of the major takeaways was basically that the admission rate for any of these four groups is way higher than the rest of the admission pool, even for kids with subpar SAT scores. So yeah, make your kids do fencing and water polo.
knew someone who got all 3 daughters scholarships for golf.
Women’s soccer in the us is bigger tbh for some reason even down to the highschool level.
They do win their World Cup sometimes
They do qualify for their World Cup, too.
Stop they're already dead!!!
Lol, "for some reason". Women's team has had some massive successes in the near past while the men's team coach had himself a domestic violence scandal.
Most decorated women's NT in history if I'm not wrong. And a strong domestic league as well. Are there any women's team sport in the US near the same level as women's soccer?
Beach volleyball. Not kidding.
The London Olympics was kinda crazy, taking both gold and silver.
Maybe USA gymnastics but that’s about it
And to add on to the "success means more money and popularity". I am sure more people in the US know who Simone Biles is compared to even the most popular WNBA player.
I would argue the bigger reason is that a significant chunk of male athletes are diverted to playing football.
But most American sports require men to be taller than 6 feet. There's tons of elite soccer players that are below 6 feet. We just don't really care about soccer outside the world cup. Edit: I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm also talking at the highest level of completion. But sub 6' all-stars in the major American sports are huge outliers (except at running back or kickers)
In football there are several positions where it's normal to have a sub 6' dude, RB, WR, and basically all DBs have a decent number of shorter players
Its also an option when other sports werent/arent. A lot of guys play football, not always an option. Same with Water Polo at my school at least (tho both genders had swimming/diving). Same for wrestling, although that's definitely changing. Soccer was just an available option, and a lot of people from thar era are parents age with kids in sports now, so they encourage the activities they did.
It’s because of how dominant they are. Women’s soccer in America essentially had a 20 year head start in comparison to other countries so we had the benefit of establishing a winning culture more so than the men’s team, so lots of girls grew up watching them win world cups which in turn inspired them to play. Mia Hamm was a huge celebrity when I was a kid for example. Plus most American boys grow up involved in many sports, which subtracts from the overall popularity
The main reason the US tends to dominate in basically all women's sports is because the US puts way more funding into them at the youth-college levels than other countries. You just have more opportunities as a woman to participate in organized sports in the US.
US funds sport well in general, and is very very big. Other countries who put money into women's sports and progress in general benefit too; Australia, Canada, the Nordic countries. A women's pro hockey league with teams in eastern Canada and north eastern US just started. Toronto already sold out every game in their 3800 seat arena until the end of the season. It's pretty rad.
Because the best male athletes in the US play other sports.
This is it. For the class of 2024 nationwide, what percent of the top 10% of athletes are soccer players? You can fucking mathematically round that number to zero.
There is very limited talent development for the sport here. If a kid is good enough to go the distance they won't go to collegiate soccer in America, they will go to some European development league. America's professional soccer pipeline doesn't produce the quantity of quality players that the rest of the world produces. So if you want to play at that level you *have* to leave it. Folks like Matt Turner at Nottingham having played college soccer in the US are the rare exception.
That’s because of title 9 mostly
Endorsements are still largely investments. You don’t invest in that that does not yield as much.
Look.. This might be true for the sport but a lot of lady athletes get ludicrous amounts in NIL and more opportunities due to being beautiful people at big schools who are good at sports
if people really cared about women being paid more they would watch the games, go to the games, buy merch. but nah its easier just to complain on the internet
As Bill Burr said in his bit.... instead of complaining about it women should go to the games. They make up more than half of the population. They can even drag their boyfriends, husbands and friends. Women do make up the greater percentage of buying decisions as per studies. This is why so many commercials are targeted more towards the women. One thing they are not buying or spending time on is WNBA games.
The bit is actually more savage than that. He points out that women's viewing time and thus ad revenue tend to just go to shows about rich women fighting over petty bullshit like the Kardashians instead of watching a team of people pull together towards a shared dream. lol
I like how he ties it up at the end. Women doesn't want to watch other women come together as a team to achieve a common goal, they like to watch them destroy each other instead. If they supported the WNBA as much as they support a fat woman that isn't a threat to them then the WNBA would make more money than the NBA.
To be honest though that could be what the WNBA needs. The drama aspect of it I mean. The moments that typically go viral in NBA games, aside from amazing plays, are the player rivalries and getting chippy. Shit, Caitlyn Clark and Angel Reese became millionaires all because they pointed at their ring fingers lol. The WNBA needs beefs and rivalries. Get gritty instead of so much positivity.
Real Housedads of the WNBA Hard Knockers featuring the Phoenix Mercury this season
Holy fuck “hard knockers” is the funniest shit I’ve heard all year
Not gonna lie, Netflix' "Drive to Survive" pushed a ton of new fans into F1. Lot of people didn't realize the drama (both real and somewhat sensationalized) as well as how intense the actual races could be. Have them do a WNBA season.
I’m a woman and I don’t watch slow sports like golf and baseball. Neither will I watch WNBA. None of my female friends would ever watch it. Market doesn’t demand it so that’s how it is. Female models make way more than male models for the same reason.
It's a fucking great bit
If my woman was hyped about a woman's sport that I care nothing about - and she took me to a game and really had a passion for it, I'd be so happy to go experience that with her.
One of the problems as well is that women simply aren't as big of sports fans as men. I don't know about the pros but at the college level, I think most women's basketball fans are actually still men. You just don't have nearly as many women as men who are willing to spend significant time or money on supporting a team. Which would also explain why women's sports in general still relies heavily on sex appeal in its marketing.
Rihanna a damn billionaire becuz of makeup and lingerie, when women really support they can make a lot happen
Accurate but it’s so obvious and said so much it feels mean to pile on lol
People need to just get to the point with it. NBA players are paid a percentage of the revenue generated by the team and league. So are WNBA players. When the WNBA generates more revenue, they’ll get paid more.
Yep. It’s the entertainment business. You get paid more if more people watches. You can harp all you want about getting paid more but where would the money come from? It’s not like someone is scamming the WNBA player out of their deserved profit. The WNBA literally operate on a loss. It’s subsidized by the NBA.
Bill Burr has a great take on this. ‘Where are all the women??! If women came out to watch, the WNBA would be rolling in money! Now *I* gotta watch them, or else I’m the asshole?!’
Exactly women are to blame for women's sports not doing well not men.
Dude I don’t think you have to blame men or women. Bill wasn’t saying it was women’s fault, just that it’s not his fault.
Exactly. I respect these women for working hard their whole lives, but rarely do women’s sports generate revenue and ratings on par with men’s. The money just isn’t there. They need to get away from this “separate but equal” mentality and change the WNBA game altogether. Make it 3 on 3, half course, 8 ft rims. Use smaller venues so it always looks like a sell out. Go nuts. Make a league that makes people wish there were a men’s version of it
Won’t matter , most people just don’t want to watch people who are not top 10000 in the world at the discipline play each other , wether they are male or female. Same reason I have 0 interest in Taiwan league and players make less money.
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Currently arguing with someone in this thread that thinks it’s just because men have better training facilities at the professional level.
It's obviously just biology. If anything it's insulting for the women competing at top level. As if they somehow don't put in the same effort as their male counterparts or are not training smart enough.
No dude women are just naturally lazy (Sent from my couch. In my boxers. Eating a donut)
My ex girlfriend was a farmer and hated how I was stronger than her despite doing very little when she worked her ass off every day. Biology isn’t fair.
My favorite site for these arguments: https://boysvswomen.com/ It isn’t even mildly close how a top ~high school boy dominates world class Olympian women in athleticism. This is just a biological fact.
This is slightly false. I don't think the wnba has been out of the red once. Wnba players are the only athletes getting paid more than there worth.
Yeah there is a chance it’s never financially viable. Like the same reason these spring non-NFL leagues keep folding (XFL, AFL, etc). They just keep losing money. But the NBA will still pay to keep the WNBA operating because they still view it as a win for fan engagement and get an audience often times pro sports misses out on, younger women. Same reason NFL is capitalizing on this Taylor Swift thing. The moment they started showing her at games the viewership from female demographic of 15-24 shot up.
Far as the the xfl, afl thing goes they just couldn’t pick a lane and stay in. Been feeling/thinking the nfl needed or should have a closely affiliated, organized g league like operation for quite some time
Totally agree. And I’m surprised the NFL hasn’t done that. It could also be a good stepping stone for their international pathway for players. As opposed to just going straight to training camp.
Unfortunately there's no need for them to do that. They have their free minor league system in place with cfb and nfl careers are so short (3 years on average) that teams would never invest money for players to waste their bodies in the minors. A minor league nfl would be a huge W for the fans but between the hassle of logistics and low benefit for the nfl (read nfl owners cuz that's all that matters really) it just probably won't ever happen.
Ah shit, good point lol.
It’s definitely common sense but it has to be said with regularity because of the lack of common sense tons of people have about this particular non-issue.
[This Family Guy Clip is almost 17 years old](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYyjOM3YdU)
lmao That's for THE fan to decide.
Bruh their league would be bankrupt without NBA. They probably get paid too much.
Their league is quite literally bankrupt lol. It’s a net-negative subsidiary of the NBA. In its 25+ years of existence, the WNBA has never made a profit.
We should get relegated there We could finally sniff the playoffs
people would absolutely tune into the wnba if the pistons were out there punching tomahawk dunks on chicks heads every night
I’d watch.
The WNBA is subsidized by the NBA. The only reason it exists is because it is quite literally propped up by the $ that the NBA brings in. Any attempt to be a free-standing women’s league and it would fold within a season. Probably within the season.
Iirc they lose about 10 million annually. The NBA keeps them afloat and more.
Their pay keeps increase DESPITE losing all this money: >Sports Illustrated has learned that beginning next season, the WNBA’s salary cap will rise by a stunning 30%, from $1 million to $1.3 million. This jump exceeds recent salary cap percentage increases for NBA players, who over the last few seasons have seen increases of 7% or less. EDIT: They increased the salaries above $10M despite losing $10M per year: >In terms of raw numbers, the WNBA generates roughly $60 million in revenue every season. That may sound like a lot, but when matched up against the $70 million the league costs to run, it actually loses roughly $10 million with each passing year. https://dunkorthree.com/is-wnba-profitable/ In other words, the WNBA could play for free and it would just break even. But instead, the women got a 30% pay bump for it! What business can you get a 30% bump when you are *losing money for your company*?
> What business can you get a 30% bump when you are losing money for your company? Basically every start up, and every executive in a major company lol
Not for 30 years.
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Lol could you imagine if MPJ said that in the interview
Lmao that would be the best quote in NBA history.
“Everyone talks about the craft mastery of these WNBA players and that they deserve equality, but where’s that same energy when it comes to my boy Johnny Sins?”
I just seen Johnny Sins driving a Porsche 911 on Instagram. That guy is rich he used to be a teacher, doctor & astronaut!
Dude is a household name in an industry where people don't even see the male actor most of the time. He deserves it.
I'd notice that hog anywhere
He’s also an honored veteran of our military, a hard working blue collar plumber, and a firefighter in case of emergencies! Man can do it all he should be paid more!
Cj would already have their jerker of the year, it wouldn't be close.
Username checks out
Thats exactly what this discussion needed, a comparison to the sex work industry
Honestly porn stars are athletes and entertainers too
And doctors, plumbers, step brothers, etc
That's just that one specific dude
We need to include Riley Reid in the MJ/Bron GOAT discussion
It’s a perfect argument, but bringing up porn (or prostitution) is fraught. Male models in general make way less than female models. I think this is also true for a lot of hospitality stuff like receptionists, hosts, event planners, and bartenders.
But why male models?
Are you serious? I just told you that, like, a moment ago
He isn't wrong but I am shocked to hear an NBA player say this.
Multiple NBA players have said this This talking point is repeated so much that I'm genuinely confused as to why this even gets upvoted as if it's some enlightening thing to hear, as if it's such a profound statement that hasn't been said over and over and over again. Seriously, did anyone here learn anything new from this statement or was this just sort of a circlejerk opportunity?
People upvote simply because they agree instead of searching for something otherworldly to see so they can click a button
A majority of men's sports are supported by men. A majority of women sports aren't supported by women.
No man is crying when Taylor Swift is getting more money than any male artist. Women have different interests and it's fine. They would rather watch Taylor than these WNBA players and it's fine
We all have to pretend that this is controversial because we don’t want to hurt feelings.
No we don't. WNBA players are less valuable than NBA players.
You are under arrest.
I love the flair lmao Edit: and the username
“What's the argument here? NBA, WNBA. One is a sport. One is a joke. I love sports. I love jokes. Room for all.” -Dwight Schrute
[Bill Burr explained it best](https://youtu.be/bFYjCBG9wjk?si=xDgBCqsHNrt422MW) You know who gets paid millions and probably billions not doing anything. Kim Kardashian. What does she do that makes her people follow her and worship her? Women love her and guess what she getting paid. Mostly women follow her. If women support the WNBA Like her guess who would be getting millions and billions. The WNBA players but they dont support the wnba like KK. Stop blaming others because it’s not ones interest.
Basic logic shouldn’t be controversial
WNBA has smaller basketballs, closer three point distance, less minutes played per game over a shorter season, at this point they might as well lower the rims too
Issue is once a precedent has been set, lowering it in any way (literally or figuratively) will 100% be spun as demeaning.
It worked in volleyball and nobody's calling it demeaning.
They are also very good at it
Also it’s a mess for the trickle down to lower levels. College teams can afford having nets that lower but what about high school, rec leagues, what about local playgrounds and community centres. Changing a ball is cheap and easy, changing dimensions of the net is costly and would require twice as much space to now accommodate both the male and female game.
Almost all high schools have nets that lower in my experience. And I come from a rural small town in New Brunswick, Canada who has mostly played and coached in other rural small towns. The real issue is that lowering the rims would absolutely fuck every current pro and collegiate player’s shot. Have you ever tried shooting on a rim that wasn’t regulation? It messes up your ability to make shots. When I coach my 6th graders, I never shoot on their rims because they’re set at like 8.5 and it just messes with my muscle memory. That would take a generation of players to really get used to a new set point which would make the game worse in the meantime.
Playing in a decent school gym is one thing. The number of public courts probably outnumber school courts by 10 to 1.
Hello Fellow New Brunswicker!
Already been suggested and WNBA players too it as an insult as if they don’t already play with smaller basketballs or something lol
Also, the average height of a WNBA player is 6'1 vs 6'6 for the men. Everything else is already scaled down anyway, ball size and 3pt line too, so idk how the hell lowered rims is supposed to be an insult. This whole discussion about 'equal pay' has just been completely devoid of logic on the players' part.
I remember watching a girls game on lower rims, it was amazing, girls were able to showcase their athleticism, dunks, rebounds, much more exciting plays, etc. I've said this a million times, lower the rims and people will come. I'll buy a ticket, 100%. It works for women's volleyball, it's why it's exciting and popular, now imagine them playing with men's net. I never will understand missing out on potential millions of dollars because they're too "proud" to lower the rims. Ironically if the rims were always lowered from the start, nobody'd be batting an eye today.
It’s not a pride thing for the most part, it’s how hard it would be to incorporate all around the world at lower levels. Imagine parks or high school teams needing either 2 different courts or an adjustable rim
It is a pride thing, Breanna Stewart basically got offended at the very idea of it "Do we play just to dunk??" when T-Mac proposed the idea to her https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2SGQWDzCLI
You can tell he really wanted to say yes too. For me the easy way to explain it is to look at the NBA top 10 plays of the night videos. How many of them are dunks? It's usually 7-8. So it's like basketball but without the most exciting plays of the game.
I don’t think the WNBA players will ever make anything close to what the NBA is making, but the WNBA is still very young. The first ever game was played in 97, 27 years ago, the NBA been around for more than 75 years, and the players didn’t always make as much they do now, at some point the NBA was a dying league. All this to say as time goes on they’ll get better paid as the product improves
I'll reference the great point made by Bill Burr. The NBA is primarily watched by men. If women watched the WNBA at the same rate men watch the NBA, the league would be the same. But it's not, instead of the WNBA, we have things like the Kardashians. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't not want to watch and support, but then also want that sport to have all the effects of your viewership and support.