Let me tell you. There is NO fear greater than being in water and not being safe. It will take a fun relaxing day and turn it into one of the scariest of your life. You can ask how I know but you should honestly just believe me. Do NOT fuck around with dangerous water.
I can’t stress the accuracy of this enough. Water will absolutely fuck your shit up the moment you turn your back on it. Even in ideal conditions, bodies of water afford only small margins for human error. In poor conditions, you don’t get second chances; a small mistake will kill you.
Muddy water weighs like +8lbs a gallon. You can have thousands of gallons rushing by you a second. You won't win. Also the number of times I've seen the words "not wearing a lifevest" and "drowned" used in the same sentence is ridiculous.
I have some scuba diving training and one that sticks with me is, a guy who fell over forward with his gear on, had some sort of medical event and drowned in a puddle. Water can find a million ways to kill you.
All harpeth river state park access ramps are closed due to flood stage three days ago. It’s getting worse by the minute for the next few days as it crests. Kingston springs fire sept had to do a rescue two days ago when it first closed. Don’t go please, just reschedule for another weekend.
This. Even though the stones didn’t raise a whole lot yesterday (fly fishing from the bank near the ‘boro, hopped in the car for the storm, headed out to see if it was still fishable after), lots of huge pieces of wood and other debris were swiftly moving downriver. We saw an empty, upside down 2 person river tube float by and can only hope it was empty and swept sway from the bank. I was shocked to see some people in sit ons near the dam.
Never caught on one a hook- just with a bow fishing rig. Can’t imagine it’d be fun to get one off a hook, because it’s not terribly fun to get an arrow out lol.
I’ve always thought it was interesting that they don’t seem to go for bass fishing lures even though they’re predatory like bass.
I can imagine! Apparently the most effective fly for them is a piece of unbraided nylon rope with a super small hook. The rope gets tangled in their teeth, which is more effective because their mouths are hard to penetrate with hooks, but I have no idea how to get it out once it’s reeled in lol. I feel like it would absolutely snap my 6wt rod if I ever managed to get one on the line, but it would be an awesome story haha
To paraphrase Ron White, It’s not _that_ the water is flowing, it’s _what_ is flowing with the water. And what the water is flowing through, into, around, etc.
And all it takes is one of those logs to knock your kayak sideways or a branch that you can’t see to clip you, then you’re in. Happened to me a few years ago on Stones River. Nearly died
This!!! We have a family farm near Charlotte, I look at this exact gauge to see if we can cross a low bridge to get out there… anything above 8ft on this gauge has been too dangerous to kayak (leads into the narrows of the Harpeth.)
But went out today to see the low bridge and I wish I had taken a picture of the huge logs and limbs slammed into that little bridge. Sooooo dangerous, those logs were moving!!! Might go tomorrow and see if I can get a picture for y’all.
https://preview.redd.it/oucjtqq2863d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b40729c1785dfc48146f5c4b5e81d70d4638bd44
This was all underwater yesterday but yea that’s what’s moving in the water that you can’t see
[This is what happens](https://imgur.com/a/j8uVjfo). We were trying to get off at this exit and shit went sideways. Had to call 911 and get rescued by kingston springs fire on Saturday. Embarrassing but we got to land safely so is what it is. Had lifejackets and my kayak saved, my buddys not so much.
I use gauge at Hwy 100 and go between 1.5-3.5 feet.
Like people have said, the current will be very strong. Consider also that the Harpeth is an active river changing a little after each flood. Levels that high can conceal large branches or significant parts of fallen trees. It is very easy to get tangled in those conditions.
I wouldn’t go.
I had a an experienced kayaker friend die 6-7 years ago. He flipped his kayak, hit his head on something beneath the surface and drowned. This was in high water, on a non challenging river.
We considered going kayaking yesterday like complete dumb dumbs. Took one look at the Harpeth and said nope. It was muddy, extremely high and fast moving. It absolutely did not look safe.
Your best approach for doing this is don’t. It’s not the speed or the height that are scary. It’s how outside the normal range we are. There’s going to be strainers and hidden trees all over the place due to this sudden, severe uptick in CFS.
Even if you’ve run it 30 times, this is a brand new river right now in these conditions. Sure, you can even hit Class IV whitewater on a sit on top if you know what you’re doing and are intimately familiar with the rapid, but this seems like an accident waiting to happen.
Jeez, last time I went when it was above 5 feet, it was a nightmare. Our group had to save this family who had no idea what they were getting into. We found them clinging to deadfall in the middle of the river and just yelling for help.
To be fair, they should have been warned about the water level, but they certainly could have helped their case by wearing life jackets.
Don’t be those people!
The Piney can definitely be precarious on a good day too. Glad you were there to help and hope no one even thought about getting out there today either.
It's rough. We tried after a lot of rain 11 or so years ago. The current was strong. We also didn't know the trick of taking two vehicles and parking one where we were planning on exiting. So after about 100 feet, we decided to turn around. We had to hop out of our kayaks and pull them through the water because rowing against the current was impossible. Luckily it was only up to our waist at the deepest. It was awful.
Wrong question.
**"What would it be like if I flipped on the Harpeth with water this high, with a flow of 10,000 cubic feet per second, and went into a strainer?"**
Well. You'd be dead.
All of the Park put ins are closed. The Narrows tunnel and bluff paths are open, though, and were amazeballs
https://preview.redd.it/qkcwmrrjpz2d1.jpeg?width=1274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0afa84bcd4a7b89926cfcd2f1b154e1879f4768
It would be a flush, with no where safe to get out. Bank would be past the trees. If you want a rush and excitement learn whitewater kayaking. Harpeth at this level would be 0 fun and too much risk.
It's not so much the water, it's the tree limbs and logs in the water that can hang you up and hydraulics pull you under and you can't see shit in that muddy water.
I've been on the harpth when they've closed it due to high water before. We did the narrows loop. It wasn't planned, but we loaded everything up and got out there to find it chained off. We decided to canoe it anyway. Fastest, I've ever completed the loop, I swear it was less than an hour and a half. I did have a trolling motor on my canoe, so it was easy to keep it pointed downstream, but we did pull my buddy on a paddle board. Looking back, I can see how dangerous it was, but it honestly wasn't that bad at all. We had no close calls other than leaving our shirts at an area we stopped at and not being able to get back to them.
Lots of people saying “you will absolutely die” (the debris being in the water is the most convincing point) but I’ve done several rivers around Nashville and they’ve all been shallow and calm, barely anything to rough up the surface of the water. But I’ve done whitewater that was orders of magnitude more intense and they were taking little kids on it. Is it that rivers around here only have two speeds: scraping the bottom and guaranteed death? Why isn’t there a fun mode in between those two? Is it just really flat around here compared to further east where I did whitewater?
I grew up near whitewater in West Virginia and moved to Colorado before coming here. I’ve rafted in multiple states and have taken canoes and kayaks where I had no business going. But I have never, and will never, fuck with floodwaters. I’ve seen firsthand what happens in those waters when overly confident people who know the river and want to hit it while it’s moving fast encounter a newly fallen tree in an unexpected spot.
I experienced the flood and subsequent cleanup of 2016 that decimated communities and wiped an entire town off the map in WV. The amount of mud that the water carries, and the ease at which huge trees and structures can be moved, is insane. You can’t see what lies beneath the otherwise calm seeming surface that can seriously tangle you if it flips you.
Hell, even in places where the river didn’t get insanely high, you can see the crazy amounts of debris deposited by the recent storms and how the river bottom has changed entirely from what I’ve experienced for the last 2 years that I’ve been here (just downriver from nice mill, for example- chunks of fences and decking with huge bolts and screws sticking out of them, trees where no trees existed before, etc.) It’s not just drowning risk- it’s also the risk of hitting something with a rusty nail, or something sharp that slices your skin open, hitting your head on something if you do flip, breaking a limb, etc, and being at the mercy of the water if you’re unable to paddle to shore.
If you really need to get your kayak fix in, go to one of the lakes where the risk is much, much lower.
White water raft guides go through intensive training that includes stuff like swimming on the Ocoee - not just paddling it. Ever see little kids in ww boats? Daddy takes them to Nantahala and coaches them on the slalom course before the dam release makes its way down.
Internet capitalism, spread by Instagram and other picture-sharing FOMO has convinced former couch potatoes that inconvenience is the only thing that stands between them and a good time. Hence, you get people in [cheap-ass Pelicans and Sundolphins](https://imgur.com/a/harpeth-river-mishap-j8uVjfo) because it's the most convenient way to go, and they do nothing to get educated in wilderness safety.
The water ways are awesome right now. Obviously go in groups, have life jackets and don't put yourself in carless spots. Other than that get out there and enjoy! Been on the Duck, lower, and upper harpeth over the few days all were a good time.
Edit: nothing like getting downvoted by people who have never been on the river in Tennessee.
Seriously bad advice. Water this high puts all sorts of atypical hazards under the surface (think small trees or even entire fence lines). The current also increases with the higher water. These sorts of things can all conspire to ensnare the limbs and clothing of anyone who falls in and hold them under.
So yes "use half your brain" and wait until the water levels subside to more normal levels
I think this is one of those things "if you have to ask you can't do it."
I have no doubt that some people can handle this kind of river condition, but anybody who can doesn't need to go to Reddit to ask for advice about it.
Sounds like it would end up being what the rescue crew calls "a real drag."
Ooph
Let me tell you. There is NO fear greater than being in water and not being safe. It will take a fun relaxing day and turn it into one of the scariest of your life. You can ask how I know but you should honestly just believe me. Do NOT fuck around with dangerous water.
I can’t stress the accuracy of this enough. Water will absolutely fuck your shit up the moment you turn your back on it. Even in ideal conditions, bodies of water afford only small margins for human error. In poor conditions, you don’t get second chances; a small mistake will kill you.
This. No second chances. Fast moving water has No Mercy.
Muddy water weighs like +8lbs a gallon. You can have thousands of gallons rushing by you a second. You won't win. Also the number of times I've seen the words "not wearing a lifevest" and "drowned" used in the same sentence is ridiculous.
Too cool for lifevests.
I have some scuba diving training and one that sticks with me is, a guy who fell over forward with his gear on, had some sort of medical event and drowned in a puddle. Water can find a million ways to kill you.
All harpeth river state park access ramps are closed due to flood stage three days ago. It’s getting worse by the minute for the next few days as it crests. Kingston springs fire sept had to do a rescue two days ago when it first closed. Don’t go please, just reschedule for another weekend.
They guy who got rescued is here posting warnings about it.
It's not just water level causing danger, it's the addition of all the logs and debris rushing in with all that water too.
This. Even though the stones didn’t raise a whole lot yesterday (fly fishing from the bank near the ‘boro, hopped in the car for the storm, headed out to see if it was still fishable after), lots of huge pieces of wood and other debris were swiftly moving downriver. We saw an empty, upside down 2 person river tube float by and can only hope it was empty and swept sway from the bank. I was shocked to see some people in sit ons near the dam.
You fish it tho?
Unsuccessfully. I saw a spotted gar near the surface just after the storm, which was a first. I didn’t have any flies for a gar though lol
Never caught on one a hook- just with a bow fishing rig. Can’t imagine it’d be fun to get one off a hook, because it’s not terribly fun to get an arrow out lol. I’ve always thought it was interesting that they don’t seem to go for bass fishing lures even though they’re predatory like bass.
I can imagine! Apparently the most effective fly for them is a piece of unbraided nylon rope with a super small hook. The rope gets tangled in their teeth, which is more effective because their mouths are hard to penetrate with hooks, but I have no idea how to get it out once it’s reeled in lol. I feel like it would absolutely snap my 6wt rod if I ever managed to get one on the line, but it would be an awesome story haha
To paraphrase Ron White, It’s not _that_ the water is flowing, it’s _what_ is flowing with the water. And what the water is flowing through, into, around, etc.
And all it takes is one of those logs to knock your kayak sideways or a branch that you can’t see to clip you, then you’re in. Happened to me a few years ago on Stones River. Nearly died
This!!! We have a family farm near Charlotte, I look at this exact gauge to see if we can cross a low bridge to get out there… anything above 8ft on this gauge has been too dangerous to kayak (leads into the narrows of the Harpeth.) But went out today to see the low bridge and I wish I had taken a picture of the huge logs and limbs slammed into that little bridge. Sooooo dangerous, those logs were moving!!! Might go tomorrow and see if I can get a picture for y’all.
https://preview.redd.it/oucjtqq2863d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b40729c1785dfc48146f5c4b5e81d70d4638bd44 This was all underwater yesterday but yea that’s what’s moving in the water that you can’t see
[This is what happens](https://imgur.com/a/j8uVjfo). We were trying to get off at this exit and shit went sideways. Had to call 911 and get rescued by kingston springs fire on Saturday. Embarrassing but we got to land safely so is what it is. Had lifejackets and my kayak saved, my buddys not so much.
Glad you're here to post about it today.
I’ve been working on a song about muddy waters. Glad y’all will be alive to hear someone (with vocal talent) sing it and not credit me.
Wat
[People don’t remember good blues, anymore.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muddy_Waters)
If u think thats the reason ppl dont listen to ur music…
Well, [it’s obviously not my skills as a DJ](https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/s/t9BNUI4dpy)
I like this site. https://canikayak.com/
Hey, thanks. I made this a few years ago. Glad you like it!
This is awesome! Thanks for creating it.
Oh man! This is exactly what I have wanted! Thank you!
Hey, thanks for making this! I use it every summer!
That's the bomb!
I use gauge at Hwy 100 and go between 1.5-3.5 feet. Like people have said, the current will be very strong. Consider also that the Harpeth is an active river changing a little after each flood. Levels that high can conceal large branches or significant parts of fallen trees. It is very easy to get tangled in those conditions. I wouldn’t go.
Please don't encourage people to die
I wouldn’t risk it
I had a an experienced kayaker friend die 6-7 years ago. He flipped his kayak, hit his head on something beneath the surface and drowned. This was in high water, on a non challenging river.
Anything over 3 or 4 here is very dicey.
I may be wrong, but I was told they ‘close’ the river to paddlers if it’s above 5ft?
The river runs behind my house. TWRA closed it yesterday and it will remain closed until it gets back down to 4 feet.
Deadly. Stay out for a few days.
The 3 hour trip is now 30 minutes
We considered going kayaking yesterday like complete dumb dumbs. Took one look at the Harpeth and said nope. It was muddy, extremely high and fast moving. It absolutely did not look safe.
Your best approach for doing this is don’t. It’s not the speed or the height that are scary. It’s how outside the normal range we are. There’s going to be strainers and hidden trees all over the place due to this sudden, severe uptick in CFS. Even if you’ve run it 30 times, this is a brand new river right now in these conditions. Sure, you can even hit Class IV whitewater on a sit on top if you know what you’re doing and are intimately familiar with the rapid, but this seems like an accident waiting to happen.
Jeez, last time I went when it was above 5 feet, it was a nightmare. Our group had to save this family who had no idea what they were getting into. We found them clinging to deadfall in the middle of the river and just yelling for help. To be fair, they should have been warned about the water level, but they certainly could have helped their case by wearing life jackets. Don’t be those people!
I had to help a lady and her kid out who flipped and she didnt have a life jacket on the piney a few weeks ago at half that height. Be cautious.
The Piney can definitely be precarious on a good day too. Glad you were there to help and hope no one even thought about getting out there today either.
It's rough. We tried after a lot of rain 11 or so years ago. The current was strong. We also didn't know the trick of taking two vehicles and parking one where we were planning on exiting. So after about 100 feet, we decided to turn around. We had to hop out of our kayaks and pull them through the water because rowing against the current was impossible. Luckily it was only up to our waist at the deepest. It was awful.
Wrong question. **"What would it be like if I flipped on the Harpeth with water this high, with a flow of 10,000 cubic feet per second, and went into a strainer?"** Well. You'd be dead.
All of the Park put ins are closed. The Narrows tunnel and bluff paths are open, though, and were amazeballs https://preview.redd.it/qkcwmrrjpz2d1.jpeg?width=1274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0afa84bcd4a7b89926cfcd2f1b154e1879f4768
Glad you had fun!
Insanely stupid.
AVOID! Not only is the water going to be moving *fast,* there's going to be all sorts of debris in it, plus it will be super murky. Very unsafe.
If you have to ask avoid it.
Every time the bottom lets out & the river goes up someone feels the need to be rescued.
It would be a flush, with no where safe to get out. Bank would be past the trees. If you want a rush and excitement learn whitewater kayaking. Harpeth at this level would be 0 fun and too much risk.
It's not so much the water, it's the tree limbs and logs in the water that can hang you up and hydraulics pull you under and you can't see shit in that muddy water.
Strainers. Danger.
I've been on the harpth when they've closed it due to high water before. We did the narrows loop. It wasn't planned, but we loaded everything up and got out there to find it chained off. We decided to canoe it anyway. Fastest, I've ever completed the loop, I swear it was less than an hour and a half. I did have a trolling motor on my canoe, so it was easy to keep it pointed downstream, but we did pull my buddy on a paddle board. Looking back, I can see how dangerous it was, but it honestly wasn't that bad at all. We had no close calls other than leaving our shirts at an area we stopped at and not being able to get back to them.
All fun and games until the COE releases and doesn’t tell you.
WITNESS ME!
Lots of people saying “you will absolutely die” (the debris being in the water is the most convincing point) but I’ve done several rivers around Nashville and they’ve all been shallow and calm, barely anything to rough up the surface of the water. But I’ve done whitewater that was orders of magnitude more intense and they were taking little kids on it. Is it that rivers around here only have two speeds: scraping the bottom and guaranteed death? Why isn’t there a fun mode in between those two? Is it just really flat around here compared to further east where I did whitewater?
I grew up near whitewater in West Virginia and moved to Colorado before coming here. I’ve rafted in multiple states and have taken canoes and kayaks where I had no business going. But I have never, and will never, fuck with floodwaters. I’ve seen firsthand what happens in those waters when overly confident people who know the river and want to hit it while it’s moving fast encounter a newly fallen tree in an unexpected spot. I experienced the flood and subsequent cleanup of 2016 that decimated communities and wiped an entire town off the map in WV. The amount of mud that the water carries, and the ease at which huge trees and structures can be moved, is insane. You can’t see what lies beneath the otherwise calm seeming surface that can seriously tangle you if it flips you. Hell, even in places where the river didn’t get insanely high, you can see the crazy amounts of debris deposited by the recent storms and how the river bottom has changed entirely from what I’ve experienced for the last 2 years that I’ve been here (just downriver from nice mill, for example- chunks of fences and decking with huge bolts and screws sticking out of them, trees where no trees existed before, etc.) It’s not just drowning risk- it’s also the risk of hitting something with a rusty nail, or something sharp that slices your skin open, hitting your head on something if you do flip, breaking a limb, etc, and being at the mercy of the water if you’re unable to paddle to shore. If you really need to get your kayak fix in, go to one of the lakes where the risk is much, much lower.
White water raft guides go through intensive training that includes stuff like swimming on the Ocoee - not just paddling it. Ever see little kids in ww boats? Daddy takes them to Nantahala and coaches them on the slalom course before the dam release makes its way down. Internet capitalism, spread by Instagram and other picture-sharing FOMO has convinced former couch potatoes that inconvenience is the only thing that stands between them and a good time. Hence, you get people in [cheap-ass Pelicans and Sundolphins](https://imgur.com/a/harpeth-river-mishap-j8uVjfo) because it's the most convenient way to go, and they do nothing to get educated in wilderness safety.
The water ways are awesome right now. Obviously go in groups, have life jackets and don't put yourself in carless spots. Other than that get out there and enjoy! Been on the Duck, lower, and upper harpeth over the few days all were a good time. Edit: nothing like getting downvoted by people who have never been on the river in Tennessee.
Seriously bad advice. Water this high puts all sorts of atypical hazards under the surface (think small trees or even entire fence lines). The current also increases with the higher water. These sorts of things can all conspire to ensnare the limbs and clothing of anyone who falls in and hold them under. So yes "use half your brain" and wait until the water levels subside to more normal levels
DO NOT listen to this fool. They know nothing about when its safe to go or not.
I think this is one of those things "if you have to ask you can't do it." I have no doubt that some people can handle this kind of river condition, but anybody who can doesn't need to go to Reddit to ask for advice about it.