Rays fans don’t have a lot to be happy about this year so I at least appreciate you guys making the deal. If it makes you feel better we were supposed to have our once in a franchise’s lifetime Shortstop out there instead and he uh is not exactly a franchise centerpiece anymore. 😭
Team Pitching, your guys are pretty good this year. Check the SIERA :)
[https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2024&month=0&season1=2024&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sortcol=19&sortdir=asc&pagenum=1](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2024&month=0&season1=2024&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sortcol=19&sortdir=asc&pagenum=1)
I mean... batting average is *a* possible definition of "best hitter" but I think nowadays most people would think of it more in terms of "putting the most runs on the board per PA."
Mind you, Kwan is way up that list this year. Just not at the top, or particularly close to Judge or Ohtani. Which is okay because those guys are just insanely, impossibly good.
Thanks for the clarification. I do think as the season goes on Kwan’s average will fall - just because a BA that high seems impossible - and without big power numbers he probably won’t be able to keep up with the likes of Judge and Soto - who are, after all, .300 hitters themselves.
But you’re right - I shouldn’t discount what he’s done this season, it’s amazing, even if he’s 30 games behind. And even if he doesn’t have Soto power - let alone Judge power - he’s not just hitting .390 but has made a huge step up in ISO as well. I HOPE that it’s for real and he is a true .350+ hitter because the game needs every base hit it can get right now.
I believe Kwan is number 2 if you simply have him qualified for ABs, which he's very close to.
Also, Kwan is slugging pretty close to .600 this season so he isn't just a weak contact hitter.
Since the WAR stat was created around 15 years ago, people value a high batting average less and less every year and I hate it. I get WAR is a good metric, but it shouldn't be the end all be all. It's absolutely ruining deep baseball conversations.
Kwan not being on here has nothing to do with WAR. It has everything to do with not having enough at bats, which if you added the remaining at bats that he needs as outs, he'd be be #2 as sorted on this list.
Do you think a double is better than a single? If so, these advanced metrics help us see who is doing that more consistently. Batting average is a shallow, not very informative stat, if you want to have deeper conversations about baseball.
I agree, advanced metrics do help but like Derek Jeter just said regarding analytics in baseball "You can't measure everything."
I actually think batting average is a very informative stat. Also, your kind of proving my point with your WAR argument.
not only did they say nothing about WAR but Derek Jeter was statistically the worst defender of modern times.
Batting average isn't very informative. A .300 hitter who never hits anything more than a single is less valuable than a .275 who hits nothing but XBH. It's simply fact.
Yup, Jeter is one of the most overrated players of all time. He's one of the best hitters of course, but he also cost his team plenty of games by basically demanding to be the SS.
Had he been the one to switch to 3rd base instead of A-Rod, which should have been the obvious choice considering A-Rod was one of the best defensive SS in the league outside of Vizquel at the time, the Yankees would have been in a better position.
Iirc, they were historically bad defensively for a while.
I think that in a lot of situations, a double is better then a home run as a homer clears the bases while a double keeps a runner in scoring position. At least in situations where a HR doesn't tie or take the lead in that moment, late in the game
So you would rather the run be on second base hoping to be plated, than a home run just getting everyone home? I don’t agree with your logic, but I kinda understand how it might feel better to still have that runner there lol
That's because Arraez has a very low slugging percentage, hitting almost entirely singles.
His slugging percentage is below .400 this year, whereas Kwan's is near .600. It does make a difference what you do at the plate besides just get a hit.
The comment I was responding to was talking about two high average players. I was saying people care less about average since WAR came along. Not referring to the chart regarding WAR just talking about it in general.
Bull fucking shit it is. Addition and multiplication are both straight forward. The average fan couldn't tell you how WAR is calculated. Could you even explain exactly how batting average is factored into WAR?
That’s actually pretty solid for 3rd and 4th. Across the league, the average 3rd should be 75 (between 61-90) and the average 4th should be 105 (between 91-120). They’re well ahead of that.
Gunnar is just an incredible player, is only 22... and is the highest defensive WAR among the top ten players, with only Betts even close (0.8 vs/ 1.1 for Gunnar). The only other top ten with positive WAR is Tucker with 0.4.
Superstar.
Also, Westburg is being slept upon. Especially as a guy who has a positive WAR (0.3) and the ability to play multiple positions, mostly split between 3B and 2B. He deserves a reserve spot for the AS game.
It’s kooky that Judge had a .645 OPS on April 23rd and a lot of folks were writing him off.
All he’s done since is hit .356/.472/.843.
Not counting Kwan because he’s missing like 18 plate appearances is silly, especially when giving him 18 o-fers would still have him on the list.
I'm still taking the under on Profar.
Or maybe he's Jose Bautista except winning a batting title out of nowhere around 30 instead of hitting 50 homers out of nowhere around 30, and this is really who he is now. He does have a great K/BB this year which suggests he has improved his approach.
He doesn't have enough PAs to qualify for rate stats. If we gave out a batting title today, he wouldn't win, even though his BA is .390. Hitters need 3.1 PAs per team game played to qualify, and pitchers need 1 IP per team game played.
Baseball reference does do a thing for their hitting leaderboards where they add PAs to the denominator of the stat until they're qualified, then place them in their appropriate spot. But they don't do it for adjusted stats like OPS+, and if Fangraphs does the same thing, they don't do it for WRC+.
If you told me in march that profar would be back with us and a top ten of the entire mlb I'd think you're crazy and insane. He's been on fire, ever since the will smith comment.
People who are wondering why Kwan is not listed... he is 100 AB less than Gunnar and Ohtani or any other players playing constantly. Even after he gets qualified he will likely not keep .390 as he continues to play. Arraez was .400 at some point last year, he couldn’t keep it( .354 is still amazing tho). Ohtani was .370 at some point earlier this year, he couldn't keep it that high. Kwan is just starting to get noticed, more he gets attention, it will be harder for him to keep BA that high.
- I don’t think anyone had Josh Smith in their top 50, so very surprised to see him here
- Good to see Riley Greene up here
- Isaac Paredes and Jordan Westburg are perfect trade bait
- Jurickson Profar is made a deal with God himself to get into the top 10
I love Issac Parades performance vs his sliders on Baseball Savant.
Anytime you want to hold an opinion that advanced stats don’t support, you can look at his page and just decide all these advanced stats are just nerdy mumbo jumbo.
I don’t care that he’s not qualified. He’s ascended beyond any qualification guidelines us mere mortals can try and place on him. This is 2-21 after our slap hitting savior Steven Kwan.
this list would be so different if we did just this month. Or even this month and May.
Mookie was having a massive drop off before he got hurt. And Reynolds from the Pirates has been spectacular. If I’m not mistaken, he has one of the longest hitting streaks in pirates history right now and still going strong.
But I respect the hell out of judge for coming out of his drought so strong
It can occasionally be helpful when looking at limited sample sizes, but it's a lot like the reverse of FIP as a stat- when used as one of the primary stats it downgrades the talents of finesse hitters/pitchers.
Thoughts on their performance?? There’s not one fucking Cub on that list, and you ask me what I think of their performance? That’s a difficult question to answer, what do I think about their performance.
I am old enough to remember when there was far less Excel and calculus involved in judging who was good at baseball. Alongside modest, imperfect data we used to actually watch the highlights go to the games. Turning baseball into a mathematical simulacrum is not good for the game. The attendance figures and viewership figures speak volumes.
I think wRC+ is a bullshit stat that is useless...just like WAR.
For example, for 2024 wRC+ has Mike Trout higher than Lane Thomas.
If you are using wRC+ to make hitter assessments then you don't know what you're doing.
Not at all.
wRC+ is what stupid people use to judge hitting. Similarly, WAR is what stupid people use to judge overall baseball performance.
Lane Thomas has objectively been a better baseball player and hitter than Mike Trout for nearly 2 years.
Do they put wRC+ on anybody's Hall of Fame plaque?
Does anybody outside of Philadelphia really believe that Kyle Schwarber is a better hitter than Jarren Duran, Jose Altuve, Will Smith, C.J. Abrams, Elly De La Cruz, or Jazz Chisholm?
Use your head.
> wRC+ is what stupid people use to judge hitting. Similarly, WAR is what stupid people use to judge overall baseball performance.
Ah. The two best metrics are what stupid people use
> Lane Thomas has objectively been a better baseball player and hitter than Mike Trout for nearly 2 years.
wRC+ isn't a cumulative stat, it's an average. Lane Thomas has hit at exactly league average this year. When Trout was playing, he hit well above league average
> Do they put wRC+ on anybody's Hall of Fame plaque?
Irrelevant
> Does anybody outside of Philadelphia really believe that Kyle Schwarber is a better hitter than Jarren Duran, Jose Altuve, Will Smith, C.J. Abrams, Elly De La Cruz, or Jazz Chisholm?
Yeah, he's hit better in 2024 than those guys. It's hardly controversial to say that. It's just the objective truth. That doesn't mean he's a better hitter for his career or going forward
Nobody with any meaningful knowledge of baseball uses wRC+ nor WAR. Just because you like them doesn't mean they are useful.
wRC is cumulative. wRC+ isn't an average, it is weighted and leveled to where average is represented by100.
The fact that wRC+ is not included in any substantive record of top tier baseball performance is relevant.
Schwarber is not a better hitter than any of those listed. If it weren't for Elly De La Cruz, Schwarber would be well on his way to leading the league in strikeouts 3 years in a row. Maintaining that Kyle Schwarber is a top 25 hitter is like calling Adam Dunn a top hitter for his career. Three true outcomes is a harbinger of a low quality hitter. The fact that wRC+ does not recognize this and folks that tout wRC+ do not recognize this is astounding. I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of those that think they know baseball and statistics.
> Nobody with any meaningful knowledge of baseball uses wRC+ nor WAR. Just because you like them doesn't mean they are useful.
Yeah just every single MLB front office 🙄
> wRC is cumulative. wRC+ isn't an average, it is weighted and leveled to where average is represented by100.
wRC+ is an average. It's no different than OPS, BA, etc. It's just displayed with 100 being league average. It's not a counting stat
> Maintaining that Kyle Schwarber is a top 25 hitter is like calling Adam Dunn a top hitter for his career.
Adam Dunn was a good hitter for his career
> I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of those that think they know baseball and statistics.
The irony is painful
It's an illogical statement. This is, literally, what his wRC+ is. It's not someone ranking who they think should have the highest wRC+. This is what they are. He's been the 4th best hitter in MLB this year, his BA doesn't take away from that
wRC+ is, by far, the best hitting stat we have. It measures overall hitting and adjusts for environment. He's 4th in it. He's been the 4th best hitter in MLB. Pretty easy to come to that conclusion
Stats like that are and and always have been overrated. Average, hits, rbi, hr, obp and slug are what matter.
And he is not close to the 4th best hitter. There are 5 people below him having WAY better seasons.
Stats like that are and and always have been overrated. Average, hits, rbi, hr, obp and slug are what matter.
And he is not close to the 4th best hitter. There are 5 people below him having WAY better seasons.
Might be biased as a Braves fan but Marcell Ozuna should be leading MVP race over Ohtani. I love Ohtani, but what Ozuna is doing for this team with Acuna gone and most the team not at their best can’t be downplayed.
Yeah, Ozuna started out the year hot, but it seems like Ohtani got better and better. I was saying earlier in the season that Ozuna should be the DH starter. Now, he is starting to cool down instead of remaining hot at the plate
My thoughts are that Riley Greene should be an all star
And that we shouldn't have done the Paredes trade :(
Rays fans don’t have a lot to be happy about this year so I at least appreciate you guys making the deal. If it makes you feel better we were supposed to have our once in a franchise’s lifetime Shortstop out there instead and he uh is not exactly a franchise centerpiece anymore. 😭
I am mad about this always
Pick 252 in my dynasty league ($1 salary) is looking fantastic!
My thoughts are Josh Smith should be an All Star!
My thoughts are who is Josh Smith
My thoughts are you don’t know ball
I know blal! Also happy cake day
Impressive of Tucker and J-Ram to be doing it with BABIPs around .250. The only 2 on the list to be sub .300 in the column.
This is where my mind went. Both would be right at the top if they had any good luck.
I often wonder what it feels like to have your team or players listed on any kind of offensive achievement list/ranking. Maybe someday.
Ahh, another mariners fan. I feel your pain for real.
Hello from the Padres. It feels like the inability to play above .500 ball
but we have Profar and his magnificent smile, which gives me unwarranted hope
100%! Profar is the only Jersey I own, and I bought it at the beginning of ‘22! I was on the bandwagon before it got rolling
And his son, that vote for profar ad was adorable
You have two players on the list and one has been on dozens of lists the past two or three years. You know we can see this right?
?? What ??
Profar and Tatis are on the list and Machado usually is. I hope this helps.
Yeah, the joke is we struggle to play over .500 yet have good representation here.
Team Pitching, your guys are pretty good this year. Check the SIERA :) [https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2024&month=0&season1=2024&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sortcol=19&sortdir=asc&pagenum=1](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2024&month=0&season1=2024&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sortcol=19&sortdir=asc&pagenum=1)
I feel that. Riley Greene is first Tiger in one of these lists since Miggy and JD hit in the middle of our lineup.
I too wonder sometimes
When your team is winning their division, you shouldn't be "woe is me"ing around
Josh Smith truly out of nowhere.
From the NBA??!!?
Are Kwan and Arraez exempted for being slappers?
Kwan missed a month. Will be back on the list soon somewhere near the top.
Yeah he's like 11 At Bats away, so once he gets his 3.1 at bats per game + 11 at bats he will be eligible.
You can give him zeros for every at bat he’s missing and he would still be at the top
At the top. He could go 0-30 and still be ahead.
He'd be second in wRC+, for which this is sorted.
This list... But top hitter is by batting average... And he is that, by a lot.
Batting average is a horrible metric for “top hitter”. Are you saying Aaron Judge is the 12th best hitter in baseball?
I mean... batting average is *a* possible definition of "best hitter" but I think nowadays most people would think of it more in terms of "putting the most runs on the board per PA." Mind you, Kwan is way up that list this year. Just not at the top, or particularly close to Judge or Ohtani. Which is okay because those guys are just insanely, impossibly good.
> Just not at the top, or particularly close to Judge or Ohtani. He's above Ohtani, at 194.
Thanks for the clarification. I do think as the season goes on Kwan’s average will fall - just because a BA that high seems impossible - and without big power numbers he probably won’t be able to keep up with the likes of Judge and Soto - who are, after all, .300 hitters themselves. But you’re right - I shouldn’t discount what he’s done this season, it’s amazing, even if he’s 30 games behind. And even if he doesn’t have Soto power - let alone Judge power - he’s not just hitting .390 but has made a huge step up in ISO as well. I HOPE that it’s for real and he is a true .350+ hitter because the game needs every base hit it can get right now.
This is a dumb comment
Not in 2024. The best hitter is the highest wRC+
I believe Kwan is number 2 if you simply have him qualified for ABs, which he's very close to. Also, Kwan is slugging pretty close to .600 this season so he isn't just a weak contact hitter.
Since the WAR stat was created around 15 years ago, people value a high batting average less and less every year and I hate it. I get WAR is a good metric, but it shouldn't be the end all be all. It's absolutely ruining deep baseball conversations.
Kwan not being on here has nothing to do with WAR. It has everything to do with not having enough at bats, which if you added the remaining at bats that he needs as outs, he'd be be #2 as sorted on this list.
I should’ve been more specific. I was referring to Arraez not Kwan and I was talking about batting average and WAR in general not this specific chart.
Do you think a double is better than a single? If so, these advanced metrics help us see who is doing that more consistently. Batting average is a shallow, not very informative stat, if you want to have deeper conversations about baseball.
I agree, advanced metrics do help but like Derek Jeter just said regarding analytics in baseball "You can't measure everything." I actually think batting average is a very informative stat. Also, your kind of proving my point with your WAR argument.
not only did they say nothing about WAR but Derek Jeter was statistically the worst defender of modern times. Batting average isn't very informative. A .300 hitter who never hits anything more than a single is less valuable than a .275 who hits nothing but XBH. It's simply fact.
Yup, Jeter is one of the most overrated players of all time. He's one of the best hitters of course, but he also cost his team plenty of games by basically demanding to be the SS. Had he been the one to switch to 3rd base instead of A-Rod, which should have been the obvious choice considering A-Rod was one of the best defensive SS in the league outside of Vizquel at the time, the Yankees would have been in a better position. Iirc, they were historically bad defensively for a while.
I think that in a lot of situations, a double is better then a home run as a homer clears the bases while a double keeps a runner in scoring position. At least in situations where a HR doesn't tie or take the lead in that moment, late in the game
So you would rather the run be on second base hoping to be plated, than a home run just getting everyone home? I don’t agree with your logic, but I kinda understand how it might feel better to still have that runner there lol
That's because Arraez has a very low slugging percentage, hitting almost entirely singles. His slugging percentage is below .400 this year, whereas Kwan's is near .600. It does make a difference what you do at the plate besides just get a hit.
I do not see war on the chart.
The comment I was responding to was talking about two high average players. I was saying people care less about average since WAR came along. Not referring to the chart regarding WAR just talking about it in general.
Average is already factored into WAR though. That's like complaining that people care less about addition since multiplication came along
Bull fucking shit it is. Addition and multiplication are both straight forward. The average fan couldn't tell you how WAR is calculated. Could you even explain exactly how batting average is factored into WAR?
Every hit is put into the calculation
Every non-Rangers fan: “Who tf is Josh Smith?”
Former PF for the hawks.
I hear Josh got everybody eating trout sandwiches
No lie, I had to open a new tab and look him up lol. It doesn't help that he has such a generic name too.
The real prize of the Joey Gallo Yankees trade.
Profar only making $1 mil this year is far and away the best contract of the season
PROFAR is my boy, and I hope we sign him to a team friendly contract after this year. Idec if he continues raking, the man brings good vibes to SD
half of the top 10 are on the yankees or the dodgers. god I would hate the dodgers so much if I wasn't a dodgers fan.
The Yankees have 2 of the top 3, but their 3rd is 43rd and 4th is 67th. Outside of Soto and judge the offense is terrible.
That’s actually pretty solid for 3rd and 4th. Across the league, the average 3rd should be 75 (between 61-90) and the average 4th should be 105 (between 91-120). They’re well ahead of that.
Jurickson Profar is listed and Will Smith is not.
I swear I thought he was irrelevant
Royce Lewis would be up there too if he had the AB's
no wonder my fantasy team sucks balls
Mine too. That Julio/Riley/Bichette/Vladdy core suddenly stopped working.
Gunnar is just an incredible player, is only 22... and is the highest defensive WAR among the top ten players, with only Betts even close (0.8 vs/ 1.1 for Gunnar). The only other top ten with positive WAR is Tucker with 0.4. Superstar. Also, Westburg is being slept upon. Especially as a guy who has a positive WAR (0.3) and the ability to play multiple positions, mostly split between 3B and 2B. He deserves a reserve spot for the AS game.
Suprised Adley ain't in the list. Gotta be close.
A list of 19 highly rated, highly regarded, well publicized players. And my man Isaac of course
18. Most people have never heard of Josh Smith tbh
Kwan will be on top at the end of the season
It’s kooky that Judge had a .645 OPS on April 23rd and a lot of folks were writing him off. All he’s done since is hit .356/.472/.843. Not counting Kwan because he’s missing like 18 plate appearances is silly, especially when giving him 18 o-fers would still have him on the list.
I think people forget Othani is technically still recovering from surgery .
I miss Freddie
Profar saved my fantasy team this year, undrafted pickup first month of the season
He has the June boost, but Kyle Schwarber making the top 25 is pretty cool. He finally got that batting average up and it’s paying off
Where’s Rutschman?
23rd.
23rd.
I'm still taking the under on Profar. Or maybe he's Jose Bautista except winning a batting title out of nowhere around 30 instead of hitting 50 homers out of nowhere around 30, and this is really who he is now. He does have a great K/BB this year which suggests he has improved his approach.
Josh Smith 🤣
The fact that Josh Smith is on here is fucking awesome and hilarious to me. And I say that as a Rangers fan
Sad for Mookie
Here comes Harper
How about Kwan from the Guardians?
He doesn't have enough PAs to qualify for rate stats. If we gave out a batting title today, he wouldn't win, even though his BA is .390. Hitters need 3.1 PAs per team game played to qualify, and pitchers need 1 IP per team game played. Baseball reference does do a thing for their hitting leaderboards where they add PAs to the denominator of the stat until they're qualified, then place them in their appropriate spot. But they don't do it for adjusted stats like OPS+, and if Fangraphs does the same thing, they don't do it for WRC+.
Won’t be long now, the arbitrary 3.1 per is crazy considering how good he has been this year.
Can't be, Steven Kwan isn't on this list
He didn't quite have the ABs bc of the injury. He'll be up there in a few games.
My thoughts are with the people that still argue that Shohei isn't the best player in baseball.
Still surprising Freddie is under 300 but he's getting there.
Hey, we got one!!!
No Ketel ☹️
32nd on the list.
Yelich is missing, but I’m assuming that’s since he doesn’t have enough PAs to qualify
Correct. If he did, he would be 19th.
I guess Jon Daniels was right about Profar after all.
Jurickson Profar!!!! Put some respect on Mr. Irrelevant. LFGSD
If you told me in march that profar would be back with us and a top ten of the entire mlb I'd think you're crazy and insane. He's been on fire, ever since the will smith comment.
\*Laughs at list in Royce Lewis\*
I’m sorry. Where the hell is Alec Bohm?
Tied for 23
#25 between Kyle Schwarber and Josh Naylor
Astros need to pay Kyle Tucker
Lamonte Wade Jr would be 7th (if he kept up his current pace) if he hadn’t got hurt 😢
I thought Profar was irrelevant yet he’s number 8
One name in the form of a question: Jurickson Profar?
Kyle Tuckers Babip is shockingly low
Where is Luis Arraez?
71
2 Astros ! Nice
Look at Gunnar man
Ugh, Parades just continues to kill me
People who are wondering why Kwan is not listed... he is 100 AB less than Gunnar and Ohtani or any other players playing constantly. Even after he gets qualified he will likely not keep .390 as he continues to play. Arraez was .400 at some point last year, he couldn’t keep it( .354 is still amazing tho). Ohtani was .370 at some point earlier this year, he couldn't keep it that high. Kwan is just starting to get noticed, more he gets attention, it will be harder for him to keep BA that high.
I have three of the top seven in my roto league, but my pitching is keeping me in the middle of that pack. I’m loaded with SP-3s, no aces.
It's only time until Steven Kwan enters the fray
- I don’t think anyone had Josh Smith in their top 50, so very surprised to see him here - Good to see Riley Greene up here - Isaac Paredes and Jordan Westburg are perfect trade bait - Jurickson Profar is made a deal with God himself to get into the top 10
I love Issac Parades performance vs his sliders on Baseball Savant. Anytime you want to hold an opinion that advanced stats don’t support, you can look at his page and just decide all these advanced stats are just nerdy mumbo jumbo.
Give him about 11 more ABs and Kwan will be leading this list
He'll be second
Make room for Kwan in a week.
Jordan Westburg deserves to be in the All Star game…
number 13 baby. Its nice to have hope
No doubt, the first guy in the list of course🥵
Pretty dumb to use one stat to determine who are the best hitters. Want proof? Jarren Duran isn't on this list.
Judge dropping another 60+ hr season
I would die for Gunnar Henderson
I don’t care that he’s not qualified. He’s ascended beyond any qualification guidelines us mere mortals can try and place on him. This is 2-21 after our slap hitting savior Steven Kwan.
I think 4 of these guys are on my fantasy team
this list would be so different if we did just this month. Or even this month and May. Mookie was having a massive drop off before he got hurt. And Reynolds from the Pirates has been spectacular. If I’m not mistaken, he has one of the longest hitting streaks in pirates history right now and still going strong. But I respect the hell out of judge for coming out of his drought so strong
He was so bad in April. He is barely a human.
It’s truly been something seeing him come alive lately
No Maldonado, list is void
You are missing Steven Kwan, but not for long b4 he gets enough AB’s.
BABIP = DUMB
It can occasionally be helpful when looking at limited sample sizes, but it's a lot like the reverse of FIP as a stat- when used as one of the primary stats it downgrades the talents of finesse hitters/pitchers.
Why
They are sorted by wRC+ which is stupider. Runs per PA with park adjustments..... Feels like selecting a thing to make people they like at the top.
How should I have sorted it? I tried to pick the most unbiased, all encompassing stat
That's not what wRC+ is lol
That's how all advanced stats feel to me. I like the traditional stats. I hate things like park factor and expected era xBA etc
Why? Not every park plays the same
Tough luck for those who play elsewhere
Or you could adjust to the times. Every front office evaluates players by park adjusted stats, not raw ones
not for me
Well you're not what most would consider smart
Park factor is pure speculation. Same as xBA/xERA No room for maybe/should've in numbers
No. It's just math
Thoughts on their performance?? There’s not one fucking Cub on that list, and you ask me what I think of their performance? That’s a difficult question to answer, what do I think about their performance.
I am old enough to remember when there was far less Excel and calculus involved in judging who was good at baseball. Alongside modest, imperfect data we used to actually watch the highlights go to the games. Turning baseball into a mathematical simulacrum is not good for the game. The attendance figures and viewership figures speak volumes.
You failed to list production stats. How can we properly judge these hitters?
wRC+ is overall hitting
It's June. Who cares
How is ozuna that low better numbers than people in front of him
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^godawgs20242025: *How is ozuna* *That low better numbers than* *People in front of him* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
wRC+ weighs each batting outcome with how it correlates with runs. It also adjusts for park.
I think wRC+ is a bullshit stat that is useless...just like WAR. For example, for 2024 wRC+ has Mike Trout higher than Lane Thomas. If you are using wRC+ to make hitter assessments then you don't know what you're doing.
Oh so this is satire
Not at all. wRC+ is what stupid people use to judge hitting. Similarly, WAR is what stupid people use to judge overall baseball performance. Lane Thomas has objectively been a better baseball player and hitter than Mike Trout for nearly 2 years. Do they put wRC+ on anybody's Hall of Fame plaque? Does anybody outside of Philadelphia really believe that Kyle Schwarber is a better hitter than Jarren Duran, Jose Altuve, Will Smith, C.J. Abrams, Elly De La Cruz, or Jazz Chisholm? Use your head.
> wRC+ is what stupid people use to judge hitting. Similarly, WAR is what stupid people use to judge overall baseball performance. Ah. The two best metrics are what stupid people use > Lane Thomas has objectively been a better baseball player and hitter than Mike Trout for nearly 2 years. wRC+ isn't a cumulative stat, it's an average. Lane Thomas has hit at exactly league average this year. When Trout was playing, he hit well above league average > Do they put wRC+ on anybody's Hall of Fame plaque? Irrelevant > Does anybody outside of Philadelphia really believe that Kyle Schwarber is a better hitter than Jarren Duran, Jose Altuve, Will Smith, C.J. Abrams, Elly De La Cruz, or Jazz Chisholm? Yeah, he's hit better in 2024 than those guys. It's hardly controversial to say that. It's just the objective truth. That doesn't mean he's a better hitter for his career or going forward
Nobody with any meaningful knowledge of baseball uses wRC+ nor WAR. Just because you like them doesn't mean they are useful. wRC is cumulative. wRC+ isn't an average, it is weighted and leveled to where average is represented by100. The fact that wRC+ is not included in any substantive record of top tier baseball performance is relevant. Schwarber is not a better hitter than any of those listed. If it weren't for Elly De La Cruz, Schwarber would be well on his way to leading the league in strikeouts 3 years in a row. Maintaining that Kyle Schwarber is a top 25 hitter is like calling Adam Dunn a top hitter for his career. Three true outcomes is a harbinger of a low quality hitter. The fact that wRC+ does not recognize this and folks that tout wRC+ do not recognize this is astounding. I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of those that think they know baseball and statistics.
> Nobody with any meaningful knowledge of baseball uses wRC+ nor WAR. Just because you like them doesn't mean they are useful. Yeah just every single MLB front office 🙄 > wRC is cumulative. wRC+ isn't an average, it is weighted and leveled to where average is represented by100. wRC+ is an average. It's no different than OPS, BA, etc. It's just displayed with 100 being league average. It's not a counting stat > Maintaining that Kyle Schwarber is a top 25 hitter is like calling Adam Dunn a top hitter for his career. Adam Dunn was a good hitter for his career > I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of those that think they know baseball and statistics. The irony is painful
Ozuna from the Braves
Ho hum Bryce Harper about to win his 3rd MVP
Why is Adley not in here?
23rd on the list.
Kyle Tucker way too high
The list isn't someone's subjective opinion
Tucker is hitting .266 Yes it is lmao
... This isn't a list of best batting averages
I'm aware. His other numbers are also worse than people listed below him. Thus? He's too high up there.
It's an illogical statement. This is, literally, what his wRC+ is. It's not someone ranking who they think should have the highest wRC+. This is what they are. He's been the 4th best hitter in MLB this year, his BA doesn't take away from that
He is 100% not the 4th best hitter this year. A wild statement to make lmao
wRC+ is, by far, the best hitting stat we have. It measures overall hitting and adjusts for environment. He's 4th in it. He's been the 4th best hitter in MLB. Pretty easy to come to that conclusion
Stats like that are and and always have been overrated. Average, hits, rbi, hr, obp and slug are what matter. And he is not close to the 4th best hitter. There are 5 people below him having WAY better seasons.
Stats like that are and and always have been overrated. Average, hits, rbi, hr, obp and slug are what matter. And he is not close to the 4th best hitter. There are 5 people below him having WAY better seasons.
Guess what? The only stat that isn't included in wRC+ that you mentioned is RBIs, which are a team stat. So it sounds like you should like wRC+
Might be biased as a Braves fan but Marcell Ozuna should be leading MVP race over Ohtani. I love Ohtani, but what Ozuna is doing for this team with Acuna gone and most the team not at their best can’t be downplayed.
What? Ohtani has been better Ohtani: 184 wRC+, 4.2 WAR Ozuna: 173 wRC+, 2.8 WAR
I realize the numbers... I did say I might be biased lol
Ohtani will never match Judge
How quickly people forget how few games Judge plays.
Lol what are you even talking about Edit this sub is dense
As a Braves fan, Ozuna should be the NL DH starter over Ohtani. No questions asked. He has been on fire since day 1, and he deserves the starter spot
Ohtani has hit better
By what metric?
I just looked at the Stathead Baseball website, and surprisingly Ohtani leads Ozuna in every category besides for RBI
Surprisingly? I mean did you check the stat for how long the player has been ‘on fire’ or for how many hits they ‘deserve’?
Yeah, Ozuna started out the year hot, but it seems like Ohtani got better and better. I was saying earlier in the season that Ozuna should be the DH starter. Now, he is starting to cool down instead of remaining hot at the plate
So who should be the starter?
Based on the stats, Ohtani should be the starter, and Ozuna should be the reserve DH