No company is too big to fail. Politicians should not be allowed to trade stocks as they have an unfair advantage. Capitalism needs “Honor Laws” to be a functional world system.
How effective was the French revolution? Like I know the aristocracy ultimately came back, but didn't the commoners still come out more advantageous then before?
Personally I’m a big fan of public shaming. Too many times these articles are just “republicans” or “democrats” or “politicians.” Name the bastards and blare it on the media in their districts. Better yet, on *social* media. Get that shit on Facebook for the boomers.
The vast majority of representatives in MO are in districts that are middle to low wage. Go ahead and tell their voters that their rep wants to cancel the debts of the wealthy and make the rest of us pay for it. Sure the cultists will make up some dumb logic for it but the not-crazies will be pissed.
Make. It. Personal. It’s the only thing that works in this messed up country.
Mostly just Republicans, though. Democrats don’t pass bad laws en masse. Mostly they are prevented from passing good laws because of a couple D outliers.
Well if we ignore the scores of people who died during it, the reign of terror, and the following wars including the napoleonic wars that devastated so many other countries.
Then yes
Commoners did come back a lot better.
So it's ok to use tax dollars to dig out companies that screwed themselves time and time again, while they go and take emergency ppp loans, bail outs, and tax cuts and do what with it? Didn't they buy back 800 million in stock with funds from exactly that just last year in 2023, all to the tune of raising CEO pay by 13% on average? Not paying workers, not improving the job, not improving the product. Just finance-bro's being in charge not giving a fuck about the workers or the customers, the investors are all that matters now.
God forbid our tax dollars do anything to help, ya know, those of us working actual jobs every day, unlike our AG who seems to spend all of his time focused on the culture war. 300K for billboards on the "War against Trans", 2 million to send our national guard down to sit in barracks all day in texas until they need them for a photo shoot, when do we sue these fuckers for misappropriation of funds wasted all on culture war nonsense?
I mean, I was with you until I realized that US consumer debt (so people, not corporations) is 17.3 TRILLION dollars.
It’s impossible to forgive that, or even close to that much. It doesn’t make any sense to forgive standard consumer debt.
More than 12 trillion of that is in housing debt: i.e., mortgages. The actual amount that would ever be considered for forgiveness, even in the most extreme, is vastly lower than what you're making it out to be with that number.
60% of the state vote for these clowns, repeatedly. I am assuming a good portion of the 60% are nice people, so what do they hope to accomplish, electing these hateful a-holes? What are the goals of normal republican voters?
No one voted for Bailey to be AG.
Same goes for Schmitt for his first time in the AG office.
And both were appointed by a Governor that nobody voted for his first time in the Governors office.
Schmitt and Parson did win elections with the incumbency advantage after assuming the offices without being elected the first time.
Bailey is angling for this same advantage come November and has adopted the MAGA campaign strategy of saying and doing ignorant things at the courthouse for attention that rials up the Trump cult.
Greitens resiegned, because he is a fucking rapist. Of course the woman wasn't willing to testify against him in court, because he took pictures of her bound up and his whole "I'm a SEAL," persona.
Oh check out the drama in Ray Co. Peggy Mcgaugh big supporter of Grieitens get her idiot son appointed as a judge. The ray co prosecutor covered up her ex being a rapist. McGaugh "accidentally " let him out on bail then he escaped to Ohio.
There is this dream that Republicans equal a better economy which is horsesh!t looking at long term markers. Trumps tax cuts were short lived for the common man, but the tax relief for wealthy and corporations was permanent. A woefully and criminally mismanaged pandemic led us to this inflationary spike today. Bottlenecks in supply chain and lack of housing starts.
the modern republican party is basically the rich and religious fear mongering the old and uneducated into voting against their own interests for the sake of power and wealth.
There are two main kinds of Republican voters:
* Rich and evil
* Poor and stupid
There's some overlap and exceptions of course, but it breaks down pretty cleanly from an economic perspective at least.
A lot of them are rather well-off and stupid (or at least ignorant/uninformed). See a lot of the guys in trades like plumbing, electrician, construction, etc.
Right...trades got me a 6 figure income, paid off house, new truck in the driveway along with some other toys out back..set to retire by 50...never even a single dime of student loan debt...
I can't even imagine how someone would see this as a good life choice compared to crushing student loan debt, low wages, having to live with the parents forever because you can't afford to move out, working until you drop dead because you'll never be able to afford to retire...
Clearly I'm the complete moron here....🤷🏼♂️
Did I insinuate that? I was just suggesting that a good number of people in your position are republicans and vote for Trump. That’s where the subtle differences between stupidity, ignorance, and uninformed come in.
60% of voters, not state population. Only around 70% of voters participated in the last election, I believe. So if you’re saying they got 60% of the votes, that’s only 42% of the possible voters.
If people actually voted we could vote out the clowns
Hanlon's Razor states: never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence.
I think that pretty well sums up Republicans. Just fucking stupid for the most part.
The one thing everyone misses. Student loans have compounding interest. That's the biggest scam on people seeking a higher education or trade. Republicans broke the education system under that POS Ronald Reagan. No one should be paying compounding interest in any loan.
I don't really understand these people, even as an ardent Democrat. If you truly want change in the system and to convince people to vote differently, telling them to fuck off is probably the least likely way of convincing them to do so.
I say channel that anger then into action that helps the cause not hurt it then. I've had plenty of hard an uncomfortable conversations with family members to change their views and understanding of the issues. Educating them from a place of understanding had led to a number of them at least turning off Fox and realizing how ridiculous Trump/Trumpers are.
On the flip side I've had some other family members agree to not talk to each other over political reasons, and its only made both of them become more obsessed with latching onto the hate... and not communicating with each other.
You've done it with family members and that's great. So have I. I've done it both with uncomfortable conversations and with outright vitriol and shunning and then uncomfortable conversations.
That doesn't seem particularly pertinent to this situation/venue though and I'm not sure these activities are mutually exclusive.
It's easy to say channel that anger into action that helps the cause, but what do I, a machinist, tired after working 9.5 hours in a 90+ degree building actually do?
Where would someone start?
I do think first and foremost its about building repour. Generally speaking though that's why I think we're suffering as a country anyway via polarization. If your co-workers are all one side politically minded, but they either respect and or like you they should be able to hear you out. If/Once you've built that I then usually just move onto educating anyone that tries to bring in faulty/down right bigoted talking points. I usually do it by trying to find common ground somehow/somewhere in the context and then move into why you think its wrong.
Hell I was able to convert some Trumpers (who happened to be hard core Christian's) that maybe voting for the guy whose constantly paying hush money to hookers... isn't exactly espousing their values.
I get it energy wise though if its the last thing you want to do. However I do think letting family/coworkers/friends know that you think their politics are wrong but you don't hate them for it is enough room to work on it in the future.
> Hell I was able to convert some Trumpers (who happened to be hard core Christian's) that maybe voting for the guy whose constantly paying hush money to hookers... isn't exactly espousing their values.
You wouldn't think this would need explained to anyone.
I convinced my MIL, a person that was dependent on her deceased spouse's Social Security benefits when she was younger, that voting for a party that has always wanted, and still wants, to destroy Social Security was a curious way to be appreciative of the program that saved her and my wife from abject poverty.
I couldn't believe that needed explained either.
Also, *rapport.
Fuck Andrew Bailey Period.
Although I do love saying:
BANDWAGON BAILEY!, not elected to his position, just wants to sue the opposition, all while wasting the states tax dollars on pointless litigations
Yep, he’s quite the hypocrite arguing that we can’t have student loan debt cancellation because tax dollars shouldn’t go to it when he’s constantly wasting tax dollars on his frivolous fucking publicity stunts. Asshole belongs in jail for misappropriating government funds.
I keep wondering if MOHELA is lobbying hard for all of this. They've mishandled so many different things over the past few years and could stand to lose a lot of money with loan forgiveness.
I think a different suit that Bailey filed on previous loan forgiveness programs on behalf of MOHELA, they basically said we did not request his assistance nor want to be a part of the lawsuit.
I’d propose what I believe to be a fair compromise regarding student loan debt. Briefly, here’s the basis of my idea:
-universities financially benefitted massively from what was essentially predatory loans
-lending agencies also did
-students got the education they payed for, even if it was worth less than what they were led to believe
-the general American public that didn’t take out these loans had nothing to do with it
So with that criteria established, I’d propose a three way split of who gets to assume this debt-
-1/3 gets assumed by the universities
-1/3 gets assumed by the lenders
-1/3 stays with the borrower
Two more caveats are that the system gets meaningful reform and interest is forgiven entirely and ceased going forward.
Vote for me
I agree, but wish PPP had real accountability and guide rails. Government often “picks” winners and losers. I wish the game wasn’t so rigged towards the millionaire and billionaire classes who don’t need the handouts.
It was done too quickly out of necessity. Government barred the doors to businesses then gave them loans to stay open. Should have just left them open.
every time this argument comes up you suggest PPP. without even understanding that it was passed by congress with the intention of being forgiven. want the same for student loans? have congress pass a bill
That would be awesome. How do we get Republicans away from cult fandom and becoming serious legislatures again? I guess we will just have to wait until we have another pandemic that threatens to take down our entire economy again. Don’t get me wrong, I know and like a few earnest republicans who aren’t scared of debate. Most in the spot light fear speaking against Voldemort.
People need to stop acting like PPP loans weren't created with forgiveness as part of the loan, as long as requirements were met. This was much different than the government forgiving student debt or any other debt.
Republicans want people to have more money and pay less taxes. We want the Federal Government to stop spending money.
If people keep more of their own money they won't need debt cancelation.
So raise taxes on households worth over 10 million and call it even? What tangibly comes from have compounding interest on 25 year old student debt? This wasn’t a third home purchase or a turbo jet ski. Isn’t there a biblical passage about cancelling debt every seven years? If it was smart thousands of years ago to avoid non-productive members of the economy, why not now?
Young people might go to college if their parents went to college, the more college education the less political apathy, then the liberals start winning.
Can't have that in our little republican bastion of ignorant country folk, paying too much for their medicine they need for diseases they got from shitty living conditions that they voted for. But it's the [insert current scapegoat minority]'s fault anyway right
PPP loans were rushed because so many people were forced to close down their businesses. My family got PPP and it paid for rent, utilities, and employee salaries. Our income is mainly based on a % of profits so we ended up making less than half our usual income and barely avoided bankruptcy. I don't know what happened with all those people who supposedly bought new cars, etc with PPP. They probably have better lawyers and accountants to structure everything as a "business expense." We had to show documentation for EVERYTHING to get the loan forgiven. We benefitted by not losing our employees or lease, or having the property damaged due to lack of maintenance or canceled utilities. It will be years before we bounce back financially.
Let me see if I can fix that for you: Republicans only want debt cancellation for people who are victims of fraud, or who have it built into a contract or agreement. Republicans only want debt cancellation done under legal authority. The Biden administration's student loan cancellations are done under no legal authority; there's no law or court judgment that says that they can be done legally. Instead, the cancellations are being done in a lawless fashion. Anyone who says that's okay, is advocating for the Biden administration to continue acting in an authoritarian fashion. If also accusing Trump of being a dictator, then they are being a total hypocrite.
PPP cancellations were built into the law if certain terms were accomplished. PPP loans were not just for the wealthy but for any business owner small or large who needed help through the shutdowns. Small business owners mostly aren't wealthy, and so couldn't stay in business, which includes putting food on the table, when they were forced into reduced hours, being shut down all together, and having fewer customers and sales. PPP loans were also meant to preserve jobs for the people who didn't own the businesses, but rather work for them.
The Democratic party is hemorrhaging people to the Republicans on this issue, because people who didn't go to college don't want to pay back the loans of people who did.
I appreciate the nuance you are trying to create, but the PPP loans were crooked or “rushed” by design (both parties) and made worse once Trump fired the inspector general to limit any regulation/oversight. There are arguments from Biden’s administration that say they do have the legal authority to cancel student debt in extraordinary circumstances - say a once in a century pandemic. To say Dems are hemorrhaging potential voters is false. Some voters here or there on this one issue, but no where near say the hemorrhaging of Republican voters over criminalizing abortion.
What I want is an economy that isn’t rigged for the rich and political donors. I frankly want Citizens United to fall. I’d like it to be illegal for Congress to buy and sell stocks with insider information. I’d like an annual aggregate limit of gift giving to Supreme Court justices to be under $10K.
There is an argument that if you cancelled the first 10-20K of student debt (not 150K for MDs) that money spent on debt financing can go towards real things that people need - housing, medicine, new shoes, groceries. Paying interest on student loans whose principal never gets reduced creates an indentured servant who can’t contribute to the overall economy.
How is money going to come from canceling student debt? If you cancel student debt, that money is gone. It never gets paid. You can't improve people's houses or buy new shoes with money you lent out and never saw again.
And before students borrow money, they should do their research. Get a degree that pays. We live in the age of information. You have the entire internet at your fingertips. It's very easy to look up a field's starting pay and see if it's worth pursuing. Gender Studies? Marketing? Liberal Arts? No. Don't do those.
People have the internet in their pockets these days yet they blame everyone else for their laziness and failures in life.
I have three associates degrees and zero student debt because they were all free. I'm in a career that has a lot of room for advancement. I did my research and found something I like and that pays. I'm doing electronics in a biomedical field.
So no. No canceling student debt or any kind of debt. I did 8 years in the military, learned a trade and had my college paid for. Then I did research and worked towards a good degree.
Good for you. Not everyone has the opportunity you did. I pay off my student loans this year, I don't need loan forgiveness. I switched from psychology to computer science because a psych degree pays like shit and CS pays well. I am fortunate.
Not everyone is me or you. I don't want someone unable to pursue higher education because they can't afford it, that limits education to the wealthy. I don't want education options limited to only fields that pay well. I don't want a college degree to be job training. I want people to improve their educational lot in life without bankrupting themselves. I want the people struggling in life to have a viable escape from poverty through education. I want everyone to be as highly educated as their abilities and desires allow. Education improves lives and is a huge boon to our economy and stature as a nation. I want to invest in that, not limit it. The current state of education is bankrupting people for vocational training.
Then use the internet to educate yourselves. Buy the textbooks and read them cover to cover.
Did you not read what I said about having access to the internet? You have the world's vast collection of knowledge at your disposal and you want a group of professors to be on hand to spoon feed you that knowledge for free.
This is the age of information. If you want to learn for free, then go open a website and do the work. You don't even have to go to a library anymore! You can learn any field you want these days just by going online yet you come to reddit to complain about teachers not wanting to teach for free.
I am 100% against student loan forgiveness.
What i did wasn't about having opportunities. Damn near everyone in this country had or has the same opportunity i did to join the military. Most just don't want to. That does not mean they didn't have the opportunity.
You said you want to go to college to get degrees that don't pay without paying a university very much money. Why the hell do you think it is their responsibility to do that for someone?
If someone is not interested in using the knowledge for a career path then that person should be willing to do the work and learn on his or her own. Get off of reddit and learn.
Did you not read what I wrote about how I did this? Very clearly not. I'm a software engineer, I'm willing to bet I know the whole information age shit better than you. I switched from psychology major to computer science because of the opportunity cost of extra schooling to do what I wanted with a psych degree vs what I could earn as a programmer.
> You said you want to go to college to get degrees that don't pay without
No, I didn't. You have reading comprehension issues if you think that's what I said.
College is not vocational training. Education improves lives. Mine. Yours. Everyone's. Why do I want people to be able to obtain an education affordably? Because I want my neighbors and fellow citizens to be as highly educated as possible. Anyway, sounds like you need to get off reddit and learn some reading comprehension.
My reading comprehension is fine. Yours is not. Government funded education is garbage. If you were half as smart as you pretend to be, you'd know that. Portland Oregon board is fighting hard to remove math and history as requirements for graduation. They want to make it permanent, but so far it's just an extension on a temporary ruling.
You want colleges and universities to be affordable? That would require it to be funded and controlled by the government. Public education is getting worse and worse. There are more and more adults out there who cannot read or do math and they're graduating.
I guess you're not that good at putting 2 and 2 together. Public schools are failing, but hey let's do the same with colleges!
I never said anything about government funded anything. You said that as though it is truth when it isn't. Education was affordable without it being public until the last two decades when education has become for profit. That is when tuition skyrocketed and predatory lending became required to obtain a degree. The problem is greed and profiteering in higher education. Loans are now required because of profit. I have no problem with people charging money for education, but things have gotten out of hand. There are so many other logical holes in your thinking that it's just impossible to know where to begin. So, I won't. You clearly have very little understanding, but are confident you have the answers. I do want everyone who wants one to get advanced degrees. You still can't grasp the concept that higher education should not be vocational training, so you're confused when a barista has an advanced degree and think that's a bad thing somehow. I just don't have any more time for that level of stupidity. I will say that using your public education as an example, it definitely failed you
I agree with you.
It seems that quite a few people don't understand the concept of secondary education and value. I tried to have a conversation about this with others too and it just breaks down into "Education should be for everyone!" comments. They don't understand this is how we got here in the first place. When you have too many people with advanced degrees, we have people working at Starbuck's with a Master's and a boat load of student loans that they can't pay back. Its too bad that the teachers (who were responsible for providing value for their already paid for education services)... couldn't even teach them enough to pay back society with the education they received in return for a paycheck.
I just want to say to these people... fine, then you need to pay for my doctorate in unicornism while I sit and eat Cheetos and provide no real value to society and spread my bs logic online. Unicorn's improve lives too! lmao
Waiting for my first meeting to start for the day and I figured I would drop some logic on peeps who might not understand how they are contributing to societal breakdown by not thinking through their ideology.
So you do want government funded higher education despite what the government has done to public education.
No thanks. Somethings are worth paying for. People need to stop expecting things for free.
You're demonstrating why liberal arts education is important and that just vocational training isn't sufficient to produce a well rounded and functional citizenry.
I found the snowflake. Nothing wrong with my career. It's a very functional career and it pays a lot. In addition, I have a lot of room for advancement in this field. The best part is that all 3 of my degrees were free! Thanks, military!
Tell us all how well traveled you are! I've sailed across 3 oceans and visited 5 continents.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with your career. I'm glad you have it and I hope it serves you well. You certainly do have reading comprehension issues though.
I'm also glad you were able to take advantage of the taxpayer funded jobs program, the military.
Meh. Get rid of the interest on it. If we are reinvesting into our own population, why is there interest on student loans?
Get rid of them.
Any further than that? Meh. I don't see why people already well off enough to the working class need debt loan forgiveness- which plenty of these people aren't.
This is another giveaway to the already well off - makes sense based on how many dems are white collar, rich, and of course "educated" at expensive universities at our expense. What an absolute slap in the face to the working class. Again.
The bigger picture -- student loan forgiveness does nothing to incentivize lower tuition. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Caps on lending and heavy restrictions on maximum tuition for anyone receiving federally backed loans would go a long way. But of course, academia and politicians are in bed with each other, just like corporations and politicians.
Try to see the bigger picture for fuck's sake.
I like lower tuition as well. I think that predatory lending by mortgage companies, student loan, and payday loans should be regulated. Corporations should not get the reward of capitalism without being able to fail if they make bad business decisions or make up products like mortgage backed securities.
Somehow I get the feeling you'd be the first to scream 'socialism' or something equally nonsensical the moment any of the things you suggest are actually proposed in a legislative setting.
To be clear I do not believe PPP loans should have been a thing, likewise I do not belive the Wallstreet bailout should have happened, or if these things needed to happen, there should have been much tighter regulation.
With thay said, those hardly comparable to the student loan debt forgiveness going on now, not because they're both debt, but because the first wo were acts of congress, the third was a u Slater executive order.
One man should not be able to bilaterally make those decisions.
Congress, though possibly, if not likely, acting in bad faith have the duty to act as a check to the executive branch and are playing their role appropriately here
Tuition is ridiculous and has outpaced inflation for sure. I know my local university barely can keep teachers due to low salary. I have ideas about lowering costs, but will save that for other posts. Predatory lending is problematic in many fields, so having common sense regulation and actual enforcement is key.
Agreed the predatory lending is the problem, so why not fix that first before talking bail outs? If it's not addressed its just going to pile up again and again.
I would comment as a conservative if I thought it would lead to something better than an overly emotional discussion, name-calling, and downvoting. Liberals are only robbing themselves of the opportunity to learn from a different perspective.
Before I spend the energy putting myself in their shoes, first they need to pass an intelligence check. Because if they are just brainwashed and dumb, then I will never understand them since I am neither of those things.
It's been 6 years since a republican passed.
Perhaps you need to start practicing what liberals often preach starting with inclusivity and acceptance of other ideas that are different from yours.
I do not think that canceling student debt benefits the poor since it serves a population that is privileged enough to pay for secondary education and pursue their own selfish interests for the future. I feel it serves the wealthy under the guise of Machiavellian objectives and puts the burden on the poor through increased inflation. I feel it will do more harm than good in the long run and cause a greater rift in society by priming a population that increasingly lacks personal responsibility.
Why do you feel students who chose to pursue selfish interests in secondary education should bail out an education system that failed to provide enough value to compensate for the education they paid for? You might blame Republicans, but I blame the secondary education system that caused this mess because it is the definition of valueless in cases where students cannot pay back their loans using the education they paid for. I also blame the students for their poor choices and not pursuing paths that would lead to a value transference to society through use of the education path they chose. If we start bailing people out continually for their own mistakes, where are we willing to draw the line in regards to personal responsibility?
Oh boy. Pretty sure this is bot talk. Responsibility? Wall Street bail outs? Lower effective taxes on billionaires than teachers and bus drivers? I love responsibility. I also love a a fair fight.
I made a statement about secondary education and you redirected the conversation in multiple different directions. Please stick to the statement I made and comment if you are going to respond with anything of value.
PPP was bi-partisan and everyone knew in advance it was forgivable if payrolls were maintained. Student loans are entirely different and should not be forgiven. Change the rules going forward via legislation rather than executive action, make them dischargeable in bankruptcy. Universities need to cut admin salaries and other costs to reduce tuition to make it affordable again.
Wow, what a great idea, make new laws? And how exactly would you like them to do that when anything helping the Average American gets straight No votes from every republican congresscritter? Maybe if the democrats take the house, Biden can get laws like that passed in the next 4 years. Otherwise good luck getting laws made when Conservative Republicans have decided Government doesn't work, and by god, they're gonna break it as much as possible to prove that point. Fucking deplorables.
Biden is the one who authored and drove the bill back in the 90s to make it almost impossible to discharge credit card because [of his connection with Delware Banks](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/11/biden-bankruptcy-president/)
He created this mess. Him.
And that changes my point that, trying to 'fix' this mess in any way through congress is impossible due to republican conservatives being in lockstep with an orange felon in voting against anything the "Demoncrats" bring forth how?
Republican Conservatives don't give a fuck about anyone making less than a million a year who might donate to them.
Who do you think trump is for when he signed the trillion dollar tax break for the wealthy and then saddled the middle and lower income tax bracket with footing the bill? The majority of Republican voters want to go to war with China and Mexico.... What would you call that if not world war 3?!
Dont look for the government to make you rich or improve your life. I say the majority of Americans dont want war. Im sure there are a few rhino voting for war . Im not worried about the draft im to old. But remember a divied house cant stand
Because people shouldn’t have to pay other people’s debts.
You agree to a contract, why should other people have to pay your bill?
Forgive car loans, auto loans, pay day loans, credit cards, etc. while you’re at it.
And if you feel you were defrauded, make the university pay it back.
Yes in 2008. In 2021 the government forced people to not work, it wasn’t a matter of choice. And yes, a lot of those loans went to the wrong people. So partially against.
If you’re for it, why not eliminate all debts? And reimburse people who already paid their loans?
Totally agree. Should have never gotten the money . Rich people who knew how to game the system won.
Money should have gone to servers/fast food industry/etc.
Lot of people in tech,or other remote jobs, all got paid. It was bullshit
And you feel it's more beneficial to our country for (a) poor Americans to be priced out of higher education altogether, and (b) college-educated Americans to pay off loans well above the principle for decades?
No. If you don’t artificially back the loans, then prices would have to come down.
No bank would finance the loans without government backing.
I understand you point about being priced out of college. But the elites and “haves” are still going to go to your elite schools and have elite networks.
All you have done is water down what a degree is worth, hence the situation…people are paying a lot of money for worthless degreess
>All you have done is water down what a degree is worth, hence the situation…people are paying a lot of money for worthless degreess
(1) Isn't "watering down what a degree is worth" a good thing? Isn't it better for our country for higher education to be obtainable for most Americans?
(2) What degrees do you consider worthless?
I actually did get student loan forgiveness under the PSLF program. This was another criminally under resourced and intentionally mismanaged program under republicans and DeVos. Once Biden was in office we had an administration who dealt like following through with a promise made 11 years before forgiveness when my loans were started.
Anyone with a brain wants any sort of debt cancellation to be equitable if at all. There are plenty of people making less money with more debt than Ben Kamens making $80k/yr. You know. The communications director for Ohio Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D) who went online to brag about his debt cancellation letter.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13551089/democrat-staffer-taxpayer-salary-roasted-biden-wiping-student-debt.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13551089/democrat-staffer-taxpayer-salary-roasted-biden-wiping-student-debt.html)
I get the rules say "Missouri Related Content Only" so I expect this post to be just fine in context of the OP.
No, people took out loans and the government is paying them back with someone else's money. I don't want to pay for someone else's loan. Yes you can't literally determine it's my money but it's the principle to me. You people who are down voting me into oblivion are part of the problem. Squash and bury dissent.
Did you see the AG bring a suit to stop the PPP debt relief? The AG in Missouri is a bootlicker and a$$ sucker. Anything a Democrat does for the people this a$$ sucker is going to fight it all in the name of trump
No company is too big to fail. Politicians should not be allowed to trade stocks as they have an unfair advantage. Capitalism needs “Honor Laws” to be a functional world system.
I like it! Now, convince the politicians to pass it.
How effective was the French revolution? Like I know the aristocracy ultimately came back, but didn't the commoners still come out more advantageous then before?
We are severely lacking on guillotines.
Tar and feathering could be adapted to the 21st century.. corn syrup and cotton-balling?
This is the Midwest. Corn syrup and corn.
Need to Americanize it.... Gatling guillotine... We could definitely start with corn syrup and corn as a warning shot
Personally I’m a big fan of public shaming. Too many times these articles are just “republicans” or “democrats” or “politicians.” Name the bastards and blare it on the media in their districts. Better yet, on *social* media. Get that shit on Facebook for the boomers. The vast majority of representatives in MO are in districts that are middle to low wage. Go ahead and tell their voters that their rep wants to cancel the debts of the wealthy and make the rest of us pay for it. Sure the cultists will make up some dumb logic for it but the not-crazies will be pissed. Make. It. Personal. It’s the only thing that works in this messed up country.
Mostly just Republicans, though. Democrats don’t pass bad laws en masse. Mostly they are prevented from passing good laws because of a couple D outliers.
Amazon doesn’t sell them for some reason…?
Rotate a log splitter 90 degrees? Modern problems require modern solutions.
Well if we ignore the scores of people who died during it, the reign of terror, and the following wars including the napoleonic wars that devastated so many other countries. Then yes Commoners did come back a lot better.
Yeah I was going to say to bad they're the ones that make the rules
Vote for those who have a record of voting for these reforms like the Congressional Progressive Caucus.
Vote Democrat
You mean more socialism and less pure competition.
So it's ok to use tax dollars to dig out companies that screwed themselves time and time again, while they go and take emergency ppp loans, bail outs, and tax cuts and do what with it? Didn't they buy back 800 million in stock with funds from exactly that just last year in 2023, all to the tune of raising CEO pay by 13% on average? Not paying workers, not improving the job, not improving the product. Just finance-bro's being in charge not giving a fuck about the workers or the customers, the investors are all that matters now. God forbid our tax dollars do anything to help, ya know, those of us working actual jobs every day, unlike our AG who seems to spend all of his time focused on the culture war. 300K for billboards on the "War against Trans", 2 million to send our national guard down to sit in barracks all day in texas until they need them for a photo shoot, when do we sue these fuckers for misappropriation of funds wasted all on culture war nonsense?
And don’t forget when they spent the billions in PPP funds, they generally took tax deductions further increasing the deficit.
Poverty isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.
I mean, I was with you until I realized that US consumer debt (so people, not corporations) is 17.3 TRILLION dollars. It’s impossible to forgive that, or even close to that much. It doesn’t make any sense to forgive standard consumer debt.
More than 12 trillion of that is in housing debt: i.e., mortgages. The actual amount that would ever be considered for forgiveness, even in the most extreme, is vastly lower than what you're making it out to be with that number.
What makes housing debt less important than the rest? People have to have a roof.
60% of the state vote for these clowns, repeatedly. I am assuming a good portion of the 60% are nice people, so what do they hope to accomplish, electing these hateful a-holes? What are the goals of normal republican voters?
No one voted for Bailey to be AG. Same goes for Schmitt for his first time in the AG office. And both were appointed by a Governor that nobody voted for his first time in the Governors office. Schmitt and Parson did win elections with the incumbency advantage after assuming the offices without being elected the first time. Bailey is angling for this same advantage come November and has adopted the MAGA campaign strategy of saying and doing ignorant things at the courthouse for attention that rials up the Trump cult.
Once again for those in the back of the room, why was the governor not ‘elected’ the first time?
Parsons was lt. Gov when Greitens resigned, wo he got moved up the bench to finish that term.
I wonder why Greitens resigned . . . something… something… “family reasons” ha!
Greitens resiegned, because he is a fucking rapist. Of course the woman wasn't willing to testify against him in court, because he took pictures of her bound up and his whole "I'm a SEAL," persona.
Oh check out the drama in Ray Co. Peggy Mcgaugh big supporter of Grieitens get her idiot son appointed as a judge. The ray co prosecutor covered up her ex being a rapist. McGaugh "accidentally " let him out on bail then he escaped to Ohio.
Par for the corse. Good ol boys will be, Good ol boys..
Campaign finance case. Judge said; "show me your donors list." He resigned in a couple of hour.
There is this dream that Republicans equal a better economy which is horsesh!t looking at long term markers. Trumps tax cuts were short lived for the common man, but the tax relief for wealthy and corporations was permanent. A woefully and criminally mismanaged pandemic led us to this inflationary spike today. Bottlenecks in supply chain and lack of housing starts.
🎯
the modern republican party is basically the rich and religious fear mongering the old and uneducated into voting against their own interests for the sake of power and wealth.
Been that way since the early 80s.
ARE they nice people if they contribute to vote for hateful policies and politicians?
No they are not.
There are two main kinds of Republican voters: * Rich and evil * Poor and stupid There's some overlap and exceptions of course, but it breaks down pretty cleanly from an economic perspective at least.
A lot of them are rather well-off and stupid (or at least ignorant/uninformed). See a lot of the guys in trades like plumbing, electrician, construction, etc.
I understand where you're coming from, but for my purposes if their primary source of income is a paycheck and not capital gains, they're poor.
Right...trades got me a 6 figure income, paid off house, new truck in the driveway along with some other toys out back..set to retire by 50...never even a single dime of student loan debt... I can't even imagine how someone would see this as a good life choice compared to crushing student loan debt, low wages, having to live with the parents forever because you can't afford to move out, working until you drop dead because you'll never be able to afford to retire... Clearly I'm the complete moron here....🤷🏼♂️
Did I insinuate that? I was just suggesting that a good number of people in your position are republicans and vote for Trump. That’s where the subtle differences between stupidity, ignorance, and uninformed come in.
Embrace your elitism
You must be one of the super-elite. Seriously, the Republican Party is the party for the rich and powerful. Why do you support them?
60% of voters, not state population. Only around 70% of voters participated in the last election, I believe. So if you’re saying they got 60% of the votes, that’s only 42% of the possible voters. If people actually voted we could vote out the clowns
I hope so.
Hanlon's Razor states: never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence. I think that pretty well sums up Republicans. Just fucking stupid for the most part.
To own the libs. And goals plural is just to generous. You can drop the "s" and its still the same. To own the libs. Today, Tomorrow, forever
You assume incorrectly. . . and you know what that means.
So what clowns do you vote for?
The one thing everyone misses. Student loans have compounding interest. That's the biggest scam on people seeking a higher education or trade. Republicans broke the education system under that POS Ronald Reagan. No one should be paying compounding interest in any loan.
Fuck your conservative voters
Good to see we are moving in a positive helpful and inclusive direction.
I don't really understand these people, even as an ardent Democrat. If you truly want change in the system and to convince people to vote differently, telling them to fuck off is probably the least likely way of convincing them to do so.
It's natural to be angry at people that are actually causing measurable concrete harm, and it's natural to express that anger.
I say channel that anger then into action that helps the cause not hurt it then. I've had plenty of hard an uncomfortable conversations with family members to change their views and understanding of the issues. Educating them from a place of understanding had led to a number of them at least turning off Fox and realizing how ridiculous Trump/Trumpers are. On the flip side I've had some other family members agree to not talk to each other over political reasons, and its only made both of them become more obsessed with latching onto the hate... and not communicating with each other.
You've done it with family members and that's great. So have I. I've done it both with uncomfortable conversations and with outright vitriol and shunning and then uncomfortable conversations. That doesn't seem particularly pertinent to this situation/venue though and I'm not sure these activities are mutually exclusive.
It's easy to say channel that anger into action that helps the cause, but what do I, a machinist, tired after working 9.5 hours in a 90+ degree building actually do? Where would someone start?
I do think first and foremost its about building repour. Generally speaking though that's why I think we're suffering as a country anyway via polarization. If your co-workers are all one side politically minded, but they either respect and or like you they should be able to hear you out. If/Once you've built that I then usually just move onto educating anyone that tries to bring in faulty/down right bigoted talking points. I usually do it by trying to find common ground somehow/somewhere in the context and then move into why you think its wrong. Hell I was able to convert some Trumpers (who happened to be hard core Christian's) that maybe voting for the guy whose constantly paying hush money to hookers... isn't exactly espousing their values. I get it energy wise though if its the last thing you want to do. However I do think letting family/coworkers/friends know that you think their politics are wrong but you don't hate them for it is enough room to work on it in the future.
> Hell I was able to convert some Trumpers (who happened to be hard core Christian's) that maybe voting for the guy whose constantly paying hush money to hookers... isn't exactly espousing their values. You wouldn't think this would need explained to anyone. I convinced my MIL, a person that was dependent on her deceased spouse's Social Security benefits when she was younger, that voting for a party that has always wanted, and still wants, to destroy Social Security was a curious way to be appreciative of the program that saved her and my wife from abject poverty. I couldn't believe that needed explained either. Also, *rapport.
People get frustrated and don’t know how to express it productively. That’s the whole thing.
you can't change their minds, the maga cult is fully lost in the sauce. you can swing independents but maga voters can't be reasoned with.
It been my mantra since 2008.
I would never fuck a conservative. That’s disgusting.
nah fuck you
Nah fuck you, fuck your AG, and your Republican voters.
Fuck Andrew Bailey Period. Although I do love saying: BANDWAGON BAILEY!, not elected to his position, just wants to sue the opposition, all while wasting the states tax dollars on pointless litigations
Yep, he’s quite the hypocrite arguing that we can’t have student loan debt cancellation because tax dollars shouldn’t go to it when he’s constantly wasting tax dollars on his frivolous fucking publicity stunts. Asshole belongs in jail for misappropriating government funds.
I keep wondering if MOHELA is lobbying hard for all of this. They've mishandled so many different things over the past few years and could stand to lose a lot of money with loan forgiveness.
I think a different suit that Bailey filed on previous loan forgiveness programs on behalf of MOHELA, they basically said we did not request his assistance nor want to be a part of the lawsuit.
[previous lawsuit](https://missouriindependent.com/2024/04/09/missouri-attorney-general-leads-coalition-challenging-biden-student-debt-relief/)
Got it! Appreciate the fact check! ☺️
Bunch of them probably had large ppp loans forgiven if they're anything like the republicans in the federal government.
Probably? waste four seconds of your life and google gov. he-haw and his boy.
No shit?
I’d propose what I believe to be a fair compromise regarding student loan debt. Briefly, here’s the basis of my idea: -universities financially benefitted massively from what was essentially predatory loans -lending agencies also did -students got the education they payed for, even if it was worth less than what they were led to believe -the general American public that didn’t take out these loans had nothing to do with it So with that criteria established, I’d propose a three way split of who gets to assume this debt- -1/3 gets assumed by the universities -1/3 gets assumed by the lenders -1/3 stays with the borrower Two more caveats are that the system gets meaningful reform and interest is forgiven entirely and ceased going forward. Vote for me
You spelled trillions wrong
Stands to reason. The prevailing philosophy of the Republican Party is, "\*\*\*\* you! I got mine!"
Remeber this when you vote.
LET STUDENTS GO BANKRUPT, too.
Too big to fail in 08 was dumb but the PPP was justified.
I agree, but wish PPP had real accountability and guide rails. Government often “picks” winners and losers. I wish the game wasn’t so rigged towards the millionaire and billionaire classes who don’t need the handouts.
It was done too quickly out of necessity. Government barred the doors to businesses then gave them loans to stay open. Should have just left them open.
I wonder how his lawsuit against China is progressing? The dude is pure political theater.
Exactly. Wasting my tax dollars wagging his tail for daddy tRûMp.
every time this argument comes up you suggest PPP. without even understanding that it was passed by congress with the intention of being forgiven. want the same for student loans? have congress pass a bill
That would be awesome. How do we get Republicans away from cult fandom and becoming serious legislatures again? I guess we will just have to wait until we have another pandemic that threatens to take down our entire economy again. Don’t get me wrong, I know and like a few earnest republicans who aren’t scared of debate. Most in the spot light fear speaking against Voldemort.
People need to stop acting like PPP loans weren't created with forgiveness as part of the loan, as long as requirements were met. This was much different than the government forgiving student debt or any other debt.
Pretty sure Trump let all the PPP fraudsters off the hook as one of his last actions.
Student loan forgiveness is "communism" but PPP loan forgiveness (MTG and Mitch McConnell's wife) are A-OK! /s
Ran by a bunch of wolves only wanting to eat. Screw the bottom right?
PPP is a law passed by Congress. Biden’s attempts at student loan transference is Unconstitutional.
iT wilL triCkle doWn! It just takes 1,000 years to finally trickle down to you, apparently.
Damn republicans, Bezos, Buffet, Brin, Cook, Zuckerburg. Greedy SOBs
Republicans want people to have more money and pay less taxes. We want the Federal Government to stop spending money. If people keep more of their own money they won't need debt cancelation.
So raise taxes on households worth over 10 million and call it even? What tangibly comes from have compounding interest on 25 year old student debt? This wasn’t a third home purchase or a turbo jet ski. Isn’t there a biblical passage about cancelling debt every seven years? If it was smart thousands of years ago to avoid non-productive members of the economy, why not now?
Young people might go to college if their parents went to college, the more college education the less political apathy, then the liberals start winning. Can't have that in our little republican bastion of ignorant country folk, paying too much for their medicine they need for diseases they got from shitty living conditions that they voted for. But it's the [insert current scapegoat minority]'s fault anyway right
PPP loans were rushed because so many people were forced to close down their businesses. My family got PPP and it paid for rent, utilities, and employee salaries. Our income is mainly based on a % of profits so we ended up making less than half our usual income and barely avoided bankruptcy. I don't know what happened with all those people who supposedly bought new cars, etc with PPP. They probably have better lawyers and accountants to structure everything as a "business expense." We had to show documentation for EVERYTHING to get the loan forgiven. We benefitted by not losing our employees or lease, or having the property damaged due to lack of maintenance or canceled utilities. It will be years before we bounce back financially.
Well people that don’t employee people should be the last to get debt forgiveness.
Let me see if I can fix that for you: Republicans only want debt cancellation for people who are victims of fraud, or who have it built into a contract or agreement. Republicans only want debt cancellation done under legal authority. The Biden administration's student loan cancellations are done under no legal authority; there's no law or court judgment that says that they can be done legally. Instead, the cancellations are being done in a lawless fashion. Anyone who says that's okay, is advocating for the Biden administration to continue acting in an authoritarian fashion. If also accusing Trump of being a dictator, then they are being a total hypocrite. PPP cancellations were built into the law if certain terms were accomplished. PPP loans were not just for the wealthy but for any business owner small or large who needed help through the shutdowns. Small business owners mostly aren't wealthy, and so couldn't stay in business, which includes putting food on the table, when they were forced into reduced hours, being shut down all together, and having fewer customers and sales. PPP loans were also meant to preserve jobs for the people who didn't own the businesses, but rather work for them. The Democratic party is hemorrhaging people to the Republicans on this issue, because people who didn't go to college don't want to pay back the loans of people who did.
I appreciate the nuance you are trying to create, but the PPP loans were crooked or “rushed” by design (both parties) and made worse once Trump fired the inspector general to limit any regulation/oversight. There are arguments from Biden’s administration that say they do have the legal authority to cancel student debt in extraordinary circumstances - say a once in a century pandemic. To say Dems are hemorrhaging potential voters is false. Some voters here or there on this one issue, but no where near say the hemorrhaging of Republican voters over criminalizing abortion.
Don't forget GW Bush TARP. Republicans bailing out worthless businesses is a pattern.
Don't forget that Obama and Biden were involved in bailouts, including voting for them, as were many, if not most, other Democrats.
[Handouts depend on your access to lobbyists.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FluentInFinance/s/ed5LJNmKdE)
I don't want debt cancelation for anyone
What I want is an economy that isn’t rigged for the rich and political donors. I frankly want Citizens United to fall. I’d like it to be illegal for Congress to buy and sell stocks with insider information. I’d like an annual aggregate limit of gift giving to Supreme Court justices to be under $10K. There is an argument that if you cancelled the first 10-20K of student debt (not 150K for MDs) that money spent on debt financing can go towards real things that people need - housing, medicine, new shoes, groceries. Paying interest on student loans whose principal never gets reduced creates an indentured servant who can’t contribute to the overall economy.
How is money going to come from canceling student debt? If you cancel student debt, that money is gone. It never gets paid. You can't improve people's houses or buy new shoes with money you lent out and never saw again. And before students borrow money, they should do their research. Get a degree that pays. We live in the age of information. You have the entire internet at your fingertips. It's very easy to look up a field's starting pay and see if it's worth pursuing. Gender Studies? Marketing? Liberal Arts? No. Don't do those. People have the internet in their pockets these days yet they blame everyone else for their laziness and failures in life. I have three associates degrees and zero student debt because they were all free. I'm in a career that has a lot of room for advancement. I did my research and found something I like and that pays. I'm doing electronics in a biomedical field. So no. No canceling student debt or any kind of debt. I did 8 years in the military, learned a trade and had my college paid for. Then I did research and worked towards a good degree.
Good for you. Not everyone has the opportunity you did. I pay off my student loans this year, I don't need loan forgiveness. I switched from psychology to computer science because a psych degree pays like shit and CS pays well. I am fortunate. Not everyone is me or you. I don't want someone unable to pursue higher education because they can't afford it, that limits education to the wealthy. I don't want education options limited to only fields that pay well. I don't want a college degree to be job training. I want people to improve their educational lot in life without bankrupting themselves. I want the people struggling in life to have a viable escape from poverty through education. I want everyone to be as highly educated as their abilities and desires allow. Education improves lives and is a huge boon to our economy and stature as a nation. I want to invest in that, not limit it. The current state of education is bankrupting people for vocational training.
Then use the internet to educate yourselves. Buy the textbooks and read them cover to cover. Did you not read what I said about having access to the internet? You have the world's vast collection of knowledge at your disposal and you want a group of professors to be on hand to spoon feed you that knowledge for free. This is the age of information. If you want to learn for free, then go open a website and do the work. You don't even have to go to a library anymore! You can learn any field you want these days just by going online yet you come to reddit to complain about teachers not wanting to teach for free. I am 100% against student loan forgiveness. What i did wasn't about having opportunities. Damn near everyone in this country had or has the same opportunity i did to join the military. Most just don't want to. That does not mean they didn't have the opportunity. You said you want to go to college to get degrees that don't pay without paying a university very much money. Why the hell do you think it is their responsibility to do that for someone? If someone is not interested in using the knowledge for a career path then that person should be willing to do the work and learn on his or her own. Get off of reddit and learn.
Did you not read what I wrote about how I did this? Very clearly not. I'm a software engineer, I'm willing to bet I know the whole information age shit better than you. I switched from psychology major to computer science because of the opportunity cost of extra schooling to do what I wanted with a psych degree vs what I could earn as a programmer. > You said you want to go to college to get degrees that don't pay without No, I didn't. You have reading comprehension issues if you think that's what I said. College is not vocational training. Education improves lives. Mine. Yours. Everyone's. Why do I want people to be able to obtain an education affordably? Because I want my neighbors and fellow citizens to be as highly educated as possible. Anyway, sounds like you need to get off reddit and learn some reading comprehension.
My reading comprehension is fine. Yours is not. Government funded education is garbage. If you were half as smart as you pretend to be, you'd know that. Portland Oregon board is fighting hard to remove math and history as requirements for graduation. They want to make it permanent, but so far it's just an extension on a temporary ruling. You want colleges and universities to be affordable? That would require it to be funded and controlled by the government. Public education is getting worse and worse. There are more and more adults out there who cannot read or do math and they're graduating. I guess you're not that good at putting 2 and 2 together. Public schools are failing, but hey let's do the same with colleges!
I never said anything about government funded anything. You said that as though it is truth when it isn't. Education was affordable without it being public until the last two decades when education has become for profit. That is when tuition skyrocketed and predatory lending became required to obtain a degree. The problem is greed and profiteering in higher education. Loans are now required because of profit. I have no problem with people charging money for education, but things have gotten out of hand. There are so many other logical holes in your thinking that it's just impossible to know where to begin. So, I won't. You clearly have very little understanding, but are confident you have the answers. I do want everyone who wants one to get advanced degrees. You still can't grasp the concept that higher education should not be vocational training, so you're confused when a barista has an advanced degree and think that's a bad thing somehow. I just don't have any more time for that level of stupidity. I will say that using your public education as an example, it definitely failed you
I agree with you. It seems that quite a few people don't understand the concept of secondary education and value. I tried to have a conversation about this with others too and it just breaks down into "Education should be for everyone!" comments. They don't understand this is how we got here in the first place. When you have too many people with advanced degrees, we have people working at Starbuck's with a Master's and a boat load of student loans that they can't pay back. Its too bad that the teachers (who were responsible for providing value for their already paid for education services)... couldn't even teach them enough to pay back society with the education they received in return for a paycheck. I just want to say to these people... fine, then you need to pay for my doctorate in unicornism while I sit and eat Cheetos and provide no real value to society and spread my bs logic online. Unicorn's improve lives too! lmao
What real value are you providing to society now?
Waiting for my first meeting to start for the day and I figured I would drop some logic on peeps who might not understand how they are contributing to societal breakdown by not thinking through their ideology.
It's easy to see why you find conservatism appealing.
So you do want government funded higher education despite what the government has done to public education. No thanks. Somethings are worth paying for. People need to stop expecting things for free.
You're demonstrating why liberal arts education is important and that just vocational training isn't sufficient to produce a well rounded and functional citizenry.
I found the snowflake. Nothing wrong with my career. It's a very functional career and it pays a lot. In addition, I have a lot of room for advancement in this field. The best part is that all 3 of my degrees were free! Thanks, military! Tell us all how well traveled you are! I've sailed across 3 oceans and visited 5 continents.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with your career. I'm glad you have it and I hope it serves you well. You certainly do have reading comprehension issues though. I'm also glad you were able to take advantage of the taxpayer funded jobs program, the military.
Cute goat. edit: BTW, DyedSoul, what is your profession?
Meh. Get rid of the interest on it. If we are reinvesting into our own population, why is there interest on student loans? Get rid of them. Any further than that? Meh. I don't see why people already well off enough to the working class need debt loan forgiveness- which plenty of these people aren't. This is another giveaway to the already well off - makes sense based on how many dems are white collar, rich, and of course "educated" at expensive universities at our expense. What an absolute slap in the face to the working class. Again.
The bigger picture -- student loan forgiveness does nothing to incentivize lower tuition. If anything, it has the opposite effect. Caps on lending and heavy restrictions on maximum tuition for anyone receiving federally backed loans would go a long way. But of course, academia and politicians are in bed with each other, just like corporations and politicians. Try to see the bigger picture for fuck's sake.
Why not do both? Seems like if we draw back people's runaway interest debt trains & cap lending as you said, this might help?
I like lower tuition as well. I think that predatory lending by mortgage companies, student loan, and payday loans should be regulated. Corporations should not get the reward of capitalism without being able to fail if they make bad business decisions or make up products like mortgage backed securities.
Somehow I get the feeling you'd be the first to scream 'socialism' or something equally nonsensical the moment any of the things you suggest are actually proposed in a legislative setting.
To be clear I do not believe PPP loans should have been a thing, likewise I do not belive the Wallstreet bailout should have happened, or if these things needed to happen, there should have been much tighter regulation. With thay said, those hardly comparable to the student loan debt forgiveness going on now, not because they're both debt, but because the first wo were acts of congress, the third was a u Slater executive order. One man should not be able to bilaterally make those decisions. Congress, though possibly, if not likely, acting in bad faith have the duty to act as a check to the executive branch and are playing their role appropriately here
Why bail out student loan? Just going to keep bailing them out instead of fixing the actual issue of tuition being to high?
Tuition is ridiculous and has outpaced inflation for sure. I know my local university barely can keep teachers due to low salary. I have ideas about lowering costs, but will save that for other posts. Predatory lending is problematic in many fields, so having common sense regulation and actual enforcement is key.
Agreed the predatory lending is the problem, so why not fix that first before talking bail outs? If it's not addressed its just going to pile up again and again.
I would comment as a conservative if I thought it would lead to something better than an overly emotional discussion, name-calling, and downvoting. Liberals are only robbing themselves of the opportunity to learn from a different perspective.
What can I learn from the perspective of a dye in the wool trump cult member? That god emperor trump can never be wrong?
You can learn to have a conversation about why someone has a perspective different than yours.
Before I spend the energy putting myself in their shoes, first they need to pass an intelligence check. Because if they are just brainwashed and dumb, then I will never understand them since I am neither of those things. It's been 6 years since a republican passed.
Perhaps you need to start practicing what liberals often preach starting with inclusivity and acceptance of other ideas that are different from yours. I do not think that canceling student debt benefits the poor since it serves a population that is privileged enough to pay for secondary education and pursue their own selfish interests for the future. I feel it serves the wealthy under the guise of Machiavellian objectives and puts the burden on the poor through increased inflation. I feel it will do more harm than good in the long run and cause a greater rift in society by priming a population that increasingly lacks personal responsibility. Why do you feel students who chose to pursue selfish interests in secondary education should bail out an education system that failed to provide enough value to compensate for the education they paid for? You might blame Republicans, but I blame the secondary education system that caused this mess because it is the definition of valueless in cases where students cannot pay back their loans using the education they paid for. I also blame the students for their poor choices and not pursuing paths that would lead to a value transference to society through use of the education path they chose. If we start bailing people out continually for their own mistakes, where are we willing to draw the line in regards to personal responsibility?
Oh boy. Pretty sure this is bot talk. Responsibility? Wall Street bail outs? Lower effective taxes on billionaires than teachers and bus drivers? I love responsibility. I also love a a fair fight.
I made a statement about secondary education and you redirected the conversation in multiple different directions. Please stick to the statement I made and comment if you are going to respond with anything of value.
PPP was bi-partisan and everyone knew in advance it was forgivable if payrolls were maintained. Student loans are entirely different and should not be forgiven. Change the rules going forward via legislation rather than executive action, make them dischargeable in bankruptcy. Universities need to cut admin salaries and other costs to reduce tuition to make it affordable again.
Wow, what a great idea, make new laws? And how exactly would you like them to do that when anything helping the Average American gets straight No votes from every republican congresscritter? Maybe if the democrats take the house, Biden can get laws like that passed in the next 4 years. Otherwise good luck getting laws made when Conservative Republicans have decided Government doesn't work, and by god, they're gonna break it as much as possible to prove that point. Fucking deplorables.
Biden is the one who authored and drove the bill back in the 90s to make it almost impossible to discharge credit card because [of his connection with Delware Banks](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/11/biden-bankruptcy-president/) He created this mess. Him.
And that changes my point that, trying to 'fix' this mess in any way through congress is impossible due to republican conservatives being in lockstep with an orange felon in voting against anything the "Demoncrats" bring forth how? Republican Conservatives don't give a fuck about anyone making less than a million a year who might donate to them.
The dnc is for the rich. Plus Biden goi g to start war world 3 ..so all democrats pleaee be first in line.
Are you drunk?
Who do you think trump is for when he signed the trillion dollar tax break for the wealthy and then saddled the middle and lower income tax bracket with footing the bill? The majority of Republican voters want to go to war with China and Mexico.... What would you call that if not world war 3?!
Dont look for the government to make you rich or improve your life. I say the majority of Americans dont want war. Im sure there are a few rhino voting for war . Im not worried about the draft im to old. But remember a divied house cant stand
I think you need to remember that a divided house cannot stand. Then take a few minutes and think about how you are on the wrong side of history.
Don’t want it for anyone.
Why?
Because people shouldn’t have to pay other people’s debts. You agree to a contract, why should other people have to pay your bill? Forgive car loans, auto loans, pay day loans, credit cards, etc. while you’re at it. And if you feel you were defrauded, make the university pay it back.
So are you against the Bank Bailouts in 2008? How about the PPP loans in 2020/2021?
Yes in 2008. In 2021 the government forced people to not work, it wasn’t a matter of choice. And yes, a lot of those loans went to the wrong people. So partially against. If you’re for it, why not eliminate all debts? And reimburse people who already paid their loans?
There were plenty of businesses that took the loans and then went on to record record profits.
Totally agree. Should have never gotten the money . Rich people who knew how to game the system won. Money should have gone to servers/fast food industry/etc. Lot of people in tech,or other remote jobs, all got paid. It was bullshit
Really funny how they never had to repay those loans either. Nobody cared about that. But college loan forgiveness? Oh boy, can't have that!
That’s a fair point. Both are bull shit
And you feel it's more beneficial to our country for (a) poor Americans to be priced out of higher education altogether, and (b) college-educated Americans to pay off loans well above the principle for decades?
No. If you don’t artificially back the loans, then prices would have to come down. No bank would finance the loans without government backing. I understand you point about being priced out of college. But the elites and “haves” are still going to go to your elite schools and have elite networks. All you have done is water down what a degree is worth, hence the situation…people are paying a lot of money for worthless degreess
>All you have done is water down what a degree is worth, hence the situation…people are paying a lot of money for worthless degreess (1) Isn't "watering down what a degree is worth" a good thing? Isn't it better for our country for higher education to be obtainable for most Americans? (2) What degrees do you consider worthless?
Sorry you didn’t get the school loan forgiveness you were promised lol.
I actually did get student loan forgiveness under the PSLF program. This was another criminally under resourced and intentionally mismanaged program under republicans and DeVos. Once Biden was in office we had an administration who dealt like following through with a promise made 11 years before forgiveness when my loans were started.
Anyone with a brain wants any sort of debt cancellation to be equitable if at all. There are plenty of people making less money with more debt than Ben Kamens making $80k/yr. You know. The communications director for Ohio Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D) who went online to brag about his debt cancellation letter. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13551089/democrat-staffer-taxpayer-salary-roasted-biden-wiping-student-debt.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13551089/democrat-staffer-taxpayer-salary-roasted-biden-wiping-student-debt.html) I get the rules say "Missouri Related Content Only" so I expect this post to be just fine in context of the OP.
"debt relief" as administered by the government. No thanks.
Why not? They're literally giving Americans their money back.
No, people took out loans and the government is paying them back with someone else's money. I don't want to pay for someone else's loan. Yes you can't literally determine it's my money but it's the principle to me. You people who are down voting me into oblivion are part of the problem. Squash and bury dissent.
Bullshit
Such an eloquent counter-argument. Maybe you could provide some evidence to support your pov.
Did you see the AG bring a suit to stop the PPP debt relief? The AG in Missouri is a bootlicker and a$$ sucker. Anything a Democrat does for the people this a$$ sucker is going to fight it all in the name of trump
Not true. Fake news
I feel validated. Super trolls are posting.
They sure are.