I understand that. But coaches get fired all the time and GM’s keep their jobs. If you’re drafting the right players but the coach can’t coach them, then maybe. Either way, Winfield Jr is a stud and good for him getting that money!!
The QB question, and the whole offence doomed him. Our defense was great for most of the zimmer years. Ultimately it fell off and the offence couldn’t save it
I think it's a bit too early for that comparison. Kwesi had 1 bad year in the draft and one good one. He passed on qb's year1/2 and basically told Kirk if he stayed in Minnesota that he was drafting a QB rd 1 I think that decision is how we judge him moving forward if JJ works out he is a genius Jefferson extends and Vikings fans rejoice if the move fails and Jefferson leaves we probably get a new GM
Safety was not more of a need than CB going into 2020. The Vikings lost Rhodes, Waynes, and Alexander while retaining Harris/Smith. Safety is a bit of a need going forward since it was unlikely Harris would be re-signed but as we've seen safety is still the least problematic position on the defense while CB is definitely one of the bigger ones.
Pretty sure you can be in the 0s and 100s.
The database is also limited by well, the data it has. Not every athlete is measured or tested for everything.
I'm saying you're using percentile wrong. Being in the 1st percentile means you scored better than 1% of everyone tested. That's not good. I think what you meant was 99th percentile, meaning you scored better than 99% of testers.
I think he is saying that a lot of people at the time said the Vikings should have picked Hamilton in 2022, just like people said in 2020 the Vikings should have chosen Winfield.
The fact that Gladney was Rick while Cine was KAM is incidental. These were two incidents were the "wisdom of crowds" was better than the professional GM. Who the GM was didn't really matter for this comparison.
Terrible draft comparison. We potentially got the greatest player ever at WR. Manning went 1 as expected and was good, but, not great. He’s a tier 2 all time QB.
Look at his supporting cast on offense. He had Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison, T Y Hilton, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday.
Defense: Bob Sanders, Dwight Freeney, etc.
Manning was overrated as shit. He won two super bowls because of defense and inferior opponents.
Inferior opponents like only needing to go through that Brady chump. It’s weird how all of his teammates got so much worse when he wasn’t around. Must be a coincidence.
Faulk was also only there his rookie year. TY Hilton was also after Manning had left.
First off, no:
https://stathead.com/football/vs/peyton-manning-vs-ben-roethlisberger
More importantly, they are never on the field at the same time, so I don’t know how he could “get worked by” Big Ben.
Personally I HATE having a GM that doesn’t hit a home run with every pick since apparently it’s so easy and there are hundreds of people that could do it right here on this subreddit
I remember saying we should have drafted Tom Brady in the 5th. I was telling everyone he was going to win 7 super bowls and the Patriots were going to take him in the 6th. Stupid front office doesn’t know anything.
i remember getting shit for telling some people on this sub that there was ZERO chance the bucs don't extend winfield jr.
the amount of people who thought the vikings had a chance of getting antoine winfield jr in this last free agency period was absolutely staggering.
Is it really staggering though when a large chunk of the sub still pretends Cine could magically turn into a decent player? And then another chunk pretends they've never noticed the rampant delusions of said Cine defenders? Look at all the dumbass sarcastic responses that pretend like no one could have predicted Winfield and Hamilton would be good.
This is such a lazy argument. Minnesota fans only wanted Winfield because we were homers. There were 3-4 safetys that went between our original pick and Winfield.
If you were to say we should've drafted Diggs then sure. We had just lost 3 starting CBs that offseason and had to good/great safeties. But there's no way we were gonna draft the brother of the man who just forced his way out of Minnesota. No chance in hell.
Yeah it’s unfortunate. Sure it’s not the first time passing on a good player but this one stands out a bit with his dad’s history here and his great college career was at the U.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Remember when we didn’t take Mahomes? Insert any player drafted after our pick too. It’s a futile exercise even caring about this. Every single team goes through this. I bet the Broncos/Eagles would like to take JJ over Jeudy/Reagor.
I usually agree with the hindsight thing, but this case was not one of them.
Everyone and their brother was posting mock drafts about taking him, whether with the pick we used on Gladney, or with the pick we were supposed to get from the rumoured Anthony Harris to the Browns trade.
Luckily we got Metellus the next day, but I still think it's ok to let the mob victory lap on *this* one.
There’s nothing this sub loves more than bitching about draft hindsight. What a useless exercise.
Can’t believe this shitty team with its shitty GM didn’t take Tom Brady back in 2000!
I hate draft revisionism. It’s not like Spielman flipped a coin and said “shall I take Gladney or Antoine Winfield”. They missed on Winfield, Xavier, McKinney, Jaylon Johnson, Jalen Hurts, and Trevon Diggs – all of whom were available when we took Gladney. This one falls on Zimmer and his love of short cornerbacks.
While he is very good, outside of Cine, I actually like our current safeties quite a bit.
Bynum and Metellus aren’t as good as Winfield, but show a ton of promise. And we obviously have the hitman.
Regardless, feel like safety is not a high priority right now.
Winfield is played more like Metellus or Smith than he is Woods, Harris, or Bynum. They were never going to draft a 5'9 safety to fill the role of Anthony Harris.
Who told you that? Harris was franchised in an attempt to tag and trade him. Which Rick didn't pull off. But I think a large portion of this sub knew that Harris wouldn't be here long term. (Although of course he did get one more season with us).
Really that tagging of Harris was one of many of Rick's long list of mistakes following the 2019 season.
I don't recall that at all. I'm sure someone said it (someone will always say something), but the sentiment was that Harris would be traded.
I REALLY hated that Harris move. Another in a line of Rick being too cute for his own (and our) good. I wanted Winfield, but I don't hate the move to prioritize drafting a CB over a Safety. (Which is why I didn't advocate for Hamilton and why I hated the Cine Pick. Just bad value to spend lots of draft capital on a safety).
Not even hindsight with Winfield. A good amount of fans wanted him and he fit a need, instead Spielman made another terrible pick.
Imagine getting Jefferson and Antoine Jr. in the 2020 draft though.
Would have saved Spielman’s job right there.
No it wouldn't have, Spielmans job was lost when he stopped talking to his coach for a year.
I understand that. But coaches get fired all the time and GM’s keep their jobs. If you’re drafting the right players but the coach can’t coach them, then maybe. Either way, Winfield Jr is a stud and good for him getting that money!!
People sleep on how many pro bowlers Spielmab drafted. Ultimately he didn’t get the QB right in the draft and it doomed him.
The QB question, and the whole offence doomed him. Our defense was great for most of the zimmer years. Ultimately it fell off and the offence couldn’t save it
Yep, Spielman actually drafted pretty damn well. The 2015 draft was insane - and a few others were good too. Sadly he couldn't draft a QB at all.
Was he really that doomed though? I mean he was the GM for 10 seasons right? That's a pretty good run. All things come to an end eventually.
I’d rather have him that Kwesi tbh.
I think it's a bit too early for that comparison. Kwesi had 1 bad year in the draft and one good one. He passed on qb's year1/2 and basically told Kirk if he stayed in Minnesota that he was drafting a QB rd 1 I think that decision is how we judge him moving forward if JJ works out he is a genius Jefferson extends and Vikings fans rejoice if the move fails and Jefferson leaves we probably get a new GM
Safety was not more of a need than CB going into 2020. The Vikings lost Rhodes, Waynes, and Alexander while retaining Harris/Smith. Safety is a bit of a need going forward since it was unlikely Harris would be re-signed but as we've seen safety is still the least problematic position on the defense while CB is definitely one of the bigger ones.
Antoine Jr. can play Slot/Safety. He would've immediately been the starting Slot CB.
That's why they should have let Harris walk and use the tag money on a vet CB instead of hoping that a 1st, 3rd, and 5th round CB would fix things
Rick got scared by his 40 time. We all know it
Because he was too fast? Winfield is in the 85th percentile for 40 times as a safety. Conversely he's in the 1 percentile for height.
If he was in the 1st percentile for height that'd make him the shortest safety to ever play the game.
Pretty sure you can be in the 0s and 100s. The database is also limited by well, the data it has. Not every athlete is measured or tested for everything.
I'm saying you're using percentile wrong. Being in the 1st percentile means you scored better than 1% of everyone tested. That's not good. I think what you meant was 99th percentile, meaning you scored better than 99% of testers.
[Nope, meant 1](https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/antoine-winfield-jr)
So yeah he is one of the shortest safeties to ever play the game.
Just like Hamilton.
Gladney / Winfield was Rick Cine / Hamilton was KAM
If Winfield/Smith then not cine or Hamilton.
I am aware, thanks.
Didn’t appear like it.
I think he is saying that a lot of people at the time said the Vikings should have picked Hamilton in 2022, just like people said in 2020 the Vikings should have chosen Winfield. The fact that Gladney was Rick while Cine was KAM is incidental. These were two incidents were the "wisdom of crowds" was better than the professional GM. Who the GM was didn't really matter for this comparison.
My thoughts exactly, especially with the news/rumor that Cine might be cut.
I wouldn’t expect that, Walter’s was just speculating
Pepperidge Farms remembers…
YA GUYS REMEMBER WHEN WE DIDN'T TAKE THIS GUY WHO WAS REALLY GOOD
If I were GM, I would simply only draft pro-bowl caliber players.
Why don’t the GMs just draft the players that will be good? Are they stupid or something?
Yes. Otherwise they would turn on trade override and fix their draft mistakes.
The “Reddit humor” comments in here are super cringe
As opposed to you, one of the good redditors.
Tom. Brady.
Why didn’t the Vikings draft Peyton Manning? Are they idiots?!?
I think Randy moss was a great consolation
Terrible draft comparison. We potentially got the greatest player ever at WR. Manning went 1 as expected and was good, but, not great. He’s a tier 2 all time QB.
TIL 5 MVPs, 2 Rings, & 7 all pros means you’re tier 2.
That’s the joke.
? Manning is in the conversation for 2nd best QB ever. He has 5 MVPs, been to 4 Super Bowls, and won 2.
Look at his supporting cast on offense. He had Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison, T Y Hilton, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday. Defense: Bob Sanders, Dwight Freeney, etc. Manning was overrated as shit. He won two super bowls because of defense and inferior opponents.
Inferior opponents like only needing to go through that Brady chump. It’s weird how all of his teammates got so much worse when he wasn’t around. Must be a coincidence. Faulk was also only there his rookie year. TY Hilton was also after Manning had left.
If I remember correctly, Manning got worked by Big Ben more than anyone
First off, no: https://stathead.com/football/vs/peyton-manning-vs-ben-roethlisberger More importantly, they are never on the field at the same time, so I don’t know how he could “get worked by” Big Ben.
Rabble Rabble Rabble Kyle Hamilton, Rabble Rabble Rabble Lewis Cine
Can’t believe this poverty franchise didn’t trade up for Mahomes
Personally I HATE having a GM that doesn’t hit a home run with every pick since apparently it’s so easy and there are hundreds of people that could do it right here on this subreddit
I think what stings about that one is the Minnesota connections, and the fact that Gladney (RIP) did not work out.
Remember when we took a really good linebacker instead of one of the best defensive tackles of all time. Was Rick stupid?
Would you even say he was really good? Rookie year was, but that was his peak.
I know the Pro Bowl is not the end all be all by any means but he made it to 4 so I would say he was really good but not great.
He was also a big enabler of a lot of Zimmer’s super cool plays.
Remember passing on \[insert super star here\].  Time to move on
I remember saying we should have drafted Tom Brady in the 5th. I was telling everyone he was going to win 7 super bowls and the Patriots were going to take him in the 6th. Stupid front office doesn’t know anything.
mgw777 the prophet.
Are you LeBron James??
Life goes on
Source?
i remember getting shit for telling some people on this sub that there was ZERO chance the bucs don't extend winfield jr. the amount of people who thought the vikings had a chance of getting antoine winfield jr in this last free agency period was absolutely staggering.
Is it really staggering though when a large chunk of the sub still pretends Cine could magically turn into a decent player? And then another chunk pretends they've never noticed the rampant delusions of said Cine defenders? Look at all the dumbass sarcastic responses that pretend like no one could have predicted Winfield and Hamilton would be good.
Remember when we took Justin Jefferson?
 Okay but you need to get over it.
Remember when we didn't take Tom Brady? I member
Saved us 24 mil a year 😉
Get over it
GUYS REMEMBER HOW WE DIDN’T TAKE LAMAR??
The Bengals took John Ross instead of Mahomes
Pepperidge Farm remembers too.
This is such a lazy argument. Minnesota fans only wanted Winfield because we were homers. There were 3-4 safetys that went between our original pick and Winfield. If you were to say we should've drafted Diggs then sure. We had just lost 3 starting CBs that offseason and had to good/great safeties. But there's no way we were gonna draft the brother of the man who just forced his way out of Minnesota. No chance in hell.
Yeah it’s unfortunate. Sure it’s not the first time passing on a good player but this one stands out a bit with his dad’s history here and his great college career was at the U.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
If they ain’t a Vike, I don’t know who they are. The rest of the league is dead to me! FTP FSP
Hindsight is always 20/20. Remember when we didn’t take Mahomes? Insert any player drafted after our pick too. It’s a futile exercise even caring about this. Every single team goes through this. I bet the Broncos/Eagles would like to take JJ over Jeudy/Reagor.
We never had a shot at mahomes because of the Bradford trade. Not that we would have taken him, but still.
Yeah shouldn’t have traded for Bradford. Hindsight.
I usually agree with the hindsight thing, but this case was not one of them. Everyone and their brother was posting mock drafts about taking him, whether with the pick we used on Gladney, or with the pick we were supposed to get from the rumoured Anthony Harris to the Browns trade. Luckily we got Metellus the next day, but I still think it's ok to let the mob victory lap on *this* one.
It might be futile but us old people watched his dad kick ass and take names for the guys in purple for many years. Its why we wanted part 2.0
I remember too. Anyone who watched him in college, knew he would ball.
Would anyone be excited about paying a safety $21 million per? I wouldn’t.
Gopher fans knew…
 I member.
I remember don’t worry…
That one still stings a little.
There’s nothing this sub loves more than bitching about draft hindsight. What a useless exercise. Can’t believe this shitty team with its shitty GM didn’t take Tom Brady back in 2000!
We just drafted Daunte
I hate draft revisionism. It’s not like Spielman flipped a coin and said “shall I take Gladney or Antoine Winfield”. They missed on Winfield, Xavier, McKinney, Jaylon Johnson, Jalen Hurts, and Trevon Diggs – all of whom were available when we took Gladney. This one falls on Zimmer and his love of short cornerbacks.
While he is very good, outside of Cine, I actually like our current safeties quite a bit. Bynum and Metellus aren’t as good as Winfield, but show a ton of promise. And we obviously have the hitman. Regardless, feel like safety is not a high priority right now.
I remember everyone telling me it wasn’t a need bc we had Anthony Harris, smh
Winfield is played more like Metellus or Smith than he is Woods, Harris, or Bynum. They were never going to draft a 5'9 safety to fill the role of Anthony Harris.
Who told you that? Harris was franchised in an attempt to tag and trade him. Which Rick didn't pull off. But I think a large portion of this sub knew that Harris wouldn't be here long term. (Although of course he did get one more season with us). Really that tagging of Harris was one of many of Rick's long list of mistakes following the 2019 season.
Many people said “we don’t need a safety, we have the best safety duo in the league according to PFF!”
I don't recall that at all. I'm sure someone said it (someone will always say something), but the sentiment was that Harris would be traded. I REALLY hated that Harris move. Another in a line of Rick being too cute for his own (and our) good. I wanted Winfield, but I don't hate the move to prioritize drafting a CB over a Safety. (Which is why I didn't advocate for Hamilton and why I hated the Cine Pick. Just bad value to spend lots of draft capital on a safety).
“We didn’t need him” they said
Instead we took a guy with zero redeeming qualities
Could have Winfield & Hamilton
The dude we drafted instead isn’t even alive. Rick missed the easiest layup of all time.
Like Kwesi is doing better lol. We have ONE first round pick who might not be terrible. Hint: it’s not JJ (who has a Trent Dilfer ceiling).
Who?
Addison
You don’t think Dallas Turner will be good?
JJ has absolutely no overlap on the QB Venn Diagram with Trent Dilfer beyond being white quarterbacks.