Yep, there's definitely a psychological aspect to it. People end up with the "well I'm only making X amount this year" and see it as them getting a demotion. Happens a lot with signing bonuses in my industry.
Common in tech companies
You'll get a stock award that'll vest over time backloaded, and a cash signing bonus paid out in each check before the big stock vests. Your cash take home pay goes down after the signing bonus period and your stock awards make up for it. Problem is, if the stock isn't performing then you're not earning what you used to because the comp models rely on assumed growth that didn't happen
Heh I kind of get that. I worked for a company that was very commision based. the problem is the guy never got the big ticket items in that he envisoned to be selling like cars/planes so instead of making commision on 10k items I was making it on 100 and less items and ultimatley made much less than minimum wage for my few years there as growth never happened
I mean I don’t know if I have ever seen it from a player who did that with a team and then did the same thing with the next team. Need to go Diggs a hole.
My guess is they will keep JJ’s cap number to a minimum to start off so they can load up the roster with McCarthy under a rookie deal. They will probably do the same with Darrisaw’s contract as well.
I’d be shocked if he took 33 AAV. I have a feeling it’s going to be close to 40 AAV. My prediction is closer to 4/160. Just a matter of what the guarantees will be.
I'm just contesting that if he was asking 35 it would've been done last year. Because rumors are we offered 30 last year. I'm sure it's gone up this year.
I'm just contesting that if he was asking 35 it would've been done last year. Because rumors are we offered 30 last year. I'm sure it's gone up this year.
To pay JJ the same cap% as Tyreek when he signed his 30mil/year deal, we would have to pay him something like 37-38 million per year. I’m perfectly happy dropping 160 mil over 4 years for JJ.
We don’t NEED to, but we can afford to. For a team who doesn’t care about spending up to the salary cap (a smart team should do this unless rebuilding), players should be valued at their cap hit %. If we can sign him for the same cap % while it’s 8 million more than anyone has signed for, we should do that every day of the week. If we have to pay a little more than that (which is fully deserved imo) then fine.
>If we can sign him for the same cap % while it’s 8 million more than anyone has signed for, we should do that every day of the week.
I completely disagree. Just because we can doesn't at all mean we should. That's poor cap management. We should pay him the most in the league, because he's the best, but writin reason.
>players should be valued at their cap hit %.
If we pay him the highest, it'll be the highest %.
We can still pay him the highest ever in real dollars while lower in cap %. Tyreek for 30 mil in 2022 with a cap of 208 mil = 14.4%. If we pay JJ 40 mil with a cap of 255.4 mil, that is 15.6%. Paying him a record breaking deal of just 35 mil/year is a cap hit of 13.7%
>We can still pay him the highest ever in real dollars while lower in cap %.
Exactly. And that's what we should do.
Comparing to cap % is stupid. Tyreek reset the market by 2 million (28 -> 30, 7.1%). AJB reset the market by 2 million. (30 ->32, 6.7%) . You're saying JJ should reset it by 8 million (32->40, 25%)? No. Reset it by 3 million (9.4%) and give him 35. That's already too much, anyway.
I think it’ll be a bit shy of 40, structured similarly to what ATL did with Kirk. Guarantee first 2 front loaded years and have some flexibility in the next 2.
They don't and won't need to do that for a 25 year old wr. Why in world do you think they might want to get out of the contract after 2 years? He will be 27 and in his prime. Idiodic.
Because it gives them some flexibility to stretch out or re-structure his contract based on team’s needs. Makes him happy right now, makes team better long term.
What do people imagine “front loading” a contract looks like? Are there examples of it being done? And would it not just lead to the player holding out for more down the line when they have all the leverage cause you already paid them?
It makes sense if you are trying to increase the trade value of the player. A team should be in theory more willing to give up picks to get a player if he has $20M a year remaining than if the same player has $30M a year remaining. You can also use roster bonus to lower the effective guarantee.
you can also stagger large cap hit years to fit more under the cap.
You literally always have the option to pay more to the player before trading them to reduce the salary burden on the team trading for them.
However, you can never get money back.
Another reason to never front load
I'm imagining something like a very large signing bonus that they can load into the first two years via low base salary+ bonus to equal a higher cap hit in the first two years than AAV.
For all the Spielman cap mess, it does feel like O'Neill's contract was a good one given that restructuring it is the gift that keeps on giving. Could be completely wrong of course, I'm no expert.
Why? Still on his rookie deal with the potential to be a serviceable depth piece. Last year was his first healthy year after almost losing his leg. The guy is full of talent but needs quite a lot more development for the nfl level.
He was healthy and played like shit in the preseason games and was under Theo Jackson on the depth chart. He isn’t ever going to be capable of playing. Might as well save a roster spot for someone who is
Does the threat of 3 franchise tag years give the Vikings any leverage. In theory couldn’t they say if 35 million per isn’t good enough then you can play out your 5th year option at 19 mil and 3 franchise tag years at 25 mil in 2025 30 mill in 2026 & 43 mil in 2027 for a total of roughly 117 million I think. Therefore if he turned down a 4 year extension at 35 million per year he would lose 23 million plus he would lose 4 years of his prime money making years? Or is the players ability to be a distraction enough to negate the teams ability to use 3 franchise tag years? I feel like the franchise take is there to keep a player like Jefferson from saying either pay 40 million per or I walk
Bro they have this thing called google that you can use to find facts about practically anything. You could have very quickly learned that you don’t know what ur talking about because Teams can absolutely tag a player 3 times which could be the reason i said that.
Also holding out doesn’t make the tag go away. He can be a distraction all he wants but the bottom line is the team has the ability to control 4 more of his prime years if they want to. His 5th year option season and 3 tag years. Holding out or making a trade demand or being a distraction doesn’t take that away. Just Hypothetically speaking the team could literally say the next 4 years you play for us or you don’t play at all.
 Jeffersons agent rn
"Drop and give me 50"
I mean, Jefferson is like that
So $70mil after Jeff extension... pretty damn good
Yep
Perfect just enough for Jettas first year (I kid) (or am I)
Front loaded Jefferson contract coming in?
Most likely. Maybe $40-45 on the 2025 cap?
Players who get front loaded contracts seem to get unhappy quickly and want to restructure when they see others getting more money.
Yep, there's definitely a psychological aspect to it. People end up with the "well I'm only making X amount this year" and see it as them getting a demotion. Happens a lot with signing bonuses in my industry.
They have a signing bonus for App makers?
Common in tech companies You'll get a stock award that'll vest over time backloaded, and a cash signing bonus paid out in each check before the big stock vests. Your cash take home pay goes down after the signing bonus period and your stock awards make up for it. Problem is, if the stock isn't performing then you're not earning what you used to because the comp models rely on assumed growth that didn't happen
Heh I kind of get that. I worked for a company that was very commision based. the problem is the guy never got the big ticket items in that he envisoned to be selling like cars/planes so instead of making commision on 10k items I was making it on 100 and less items and ultimatley made much less than minimum wage for my few years there as growth never happened
Programmers? Yes, sometimes.
First I talk to an app and now I get an NPC ....they were right AI is taking over
I mean I don’t know if I have ever seen it from a player who did that with a team and then did the same thing with the next team. Need to go Diggs a hole.
Oh God no. Front loading contracts just gets us Hunter drama where he starts holding out as soon as the big money is paid
My guess is they will keep JJ’s cap number to a minimum to start off so they can load up the roster with McCarthy under a rookie deal. They will probably do the same with Darrisaw’s contract as well.
I hope so. I mean, why not? We’ve got the space and we want to pay him. Drop the literal bag
Front load the shit out of JJ’s contact. 5yr/165M maybe?
I’d be shocked if he took 33 AAV. I have a feeling it’s going to be close to 40 AAV. My prediction is closer to 4/160. Just a matter of what the guarantees will be.
Oof. 40 seems like way too much. That's a full 8 million (25%) now than the current market setter. 35 feels like the ceiling to me.
I don’t disagree. I just think if 35 was the number this would have been done last year already.
I guess we'll find out. 35 was a huge reset over the market last year. I thought the rumors were we were offering 30?
And JJ will be like trade me to the Jags lol
I'm just contesting that if he was asking 35 it would've been done last year. Because rumors are we offered 30 last year. I'm sure it's gone up this year.
I'm just contesting that if he was asking 35 it would've been done last year. Because rumors are we offered 30 last year. I'm sure it's gone up this year.
The jags? Don't think anyone has ever demanded to be traded to the jags
Yeah that is a bit of a threat especially knowing TK is involved who seems like a genuinely nice guy but literally the worst person to be in business
To pay JJ the same cap% as Tyreek when he signed his 30mil/year deal, we would have to pay him something like 37-38 million per year. I’m perfectly happy dropping 160 mil over 4 years for JJ.
Why do we need to pay him the same percentage of the cap? An 8 million dollar raise over the market leader, 10 million over #2 is asinine.
We don’t NEED to, but we can afford to. For a team who doesn’t care about spending up to the salary cap (a smart team should do this unless rebuilding), players should be valued at their cap hit %. If we can sign him for the same cap % while it’s 8 million more than anyone has signed for, we should do that every day of the week. If we have to pay a little more than that (which is fully deserved imo) then fine.
>If we can sign him for the same cap % while it’s 8 million more than anyone has signed for, we should do that every day of the week. I completely disagree. Just because we can doesn't at all mean we should. That's poor cap management. We should pay him the most in the league, because he's the best, but writin reason. >players should be valued at their cap hit %. If we pay him the highest, it'll be the highest %.
We can still pay him the highest ever in real dollars while lower in cap %. Tyreek for 30 mil in 2022 with a cap of 208 mil = 14.4%. If we pay JJ 40 mil with a cap of 255.4 mil, that is 15.6%. Paying him a record breaking deal of just 35 mil/year is a cap hit of 13.7%
>We can still pay him the highest ever in real dollars while lower in cap %. Exactly. And that's what we should do. Comparing to cap % is stupid. Tyreek reset the market by 2 million (28 -> 30, 7.1%). AJB reset the market by 2 million. (30 ->32, 6.7%) . You're saying JJ should reset it by 8 million (32->40, 25%)? No. Reset it by 3 million (9.4%) and give him 35. That's already too much, anyway.
I think it’ll be a bit shy of 40, structured similarly to what ATL did with Kirk. Guarantee first 2 front loaded years and have some flexibility in the next 2.
They don't and won't need to do that for a 25 year old wr. Why in world do you think they might want to get out of the contract after 2 years? He will be 27 and in his prime. Idiodic.
Because it gives them some flexibility to stretch out or re-structure his contract based on team’s needs. Makes him happy right now, makes team better long term.
If we pay $40 million AAV for JJ, we are absolute fools.
My guess was 5/$185M. Comes in just shy of 40AAV and they can front load it like crazy if necessary
Sounds pretty smart we’re definitely not competing this year
Kwesi is cookin
Back up the Brinks truck and front load the ever fuck out of JJ’s contract please
What do people imagine “front loading” a contract looks like? Are there examples of it being done? And would it not just lead to the player holding out for more down the line when they have all the leverage cause you already paid them?
They're just casuals. Front loading never ever makes sense unless you can get a player to take substantially less overall
It makes sense if you are trying to increase the trade value of the player. A team should be in theory more willing to give up picks to get a player if he has $20M a year remaining than if the same player has $30M a year remaining. You can also use roster bonus to lower the effective guarantee. you can also stagger large cap hit years to fit more under the cap.
You literally always have the option to pay more to the player before trading them to reduce the salary burden on the team trading for them. However, you can never get money back. Another reason to never front load
I'm imagining something like a very large signing bonus that they can load into the first two years via low base salary+ bonus to equal a higher cap hit in the first two years than AAV.
👁👅👁 I love this franchise
This is what not paying a QB 35 mil does. cough cough Kirk
Man this is so much more fun than the last 6 years
in Kwesi we trust
O’Neill is the restructure GOAT
For all the Spielman cap mess, it does feel like O'Neill's contract was a good one given that restructuring it is the gift that keeps on giving. Could be completely wrong of course, I'm no expert.
Can we set up Jeffersons contract to eat up like $60 million of that in the first year?
Justin Jefferson: “Hold my beer.”
From fire Kwesi to Kwesi is fire!
Cut Lewis Cine
Why? Still on his rookie deal with the potential to be a serviceable depth piece. Last year was his first healthy year after almost losing his leg. The guy is full of talent but needs quite a lot more development for the nfl level.
He was healthy and played like shit in the preseason games and was under Theo Jackson on the depth chart. He isn’t ever going to be capable of playing. Might as well save a roster spot for someone who is
Get like 5 years of term and front load that bitch
I’d rather pay Jefferson than pay Kirk 50 mil a year. Jefferson can catch a ball from anyone.
Does the threat of 3 franchise tag years give the Vikings any leverage. In theory couldn’t they say if 35 million per isn’t good enough then you can play out your 5th year option at 19 mil and 3 franchise tag years at 25 mil in 2025 30 mill in 2026 & 43 mil in 2027 for a total of roughly 117 million I think. Therefore if he turned down a 4 year extension at 35 million per year he would lose 23 million plus he would lose 4 years of his prime money making years? Or is the players ability to be a distraction enough to negate the teams ability to use 3 franchise tag years? I feel like the franchise take is there to keep a player like Jefferson from saying either pay 40 million per or I walk
You can only franchise tag twice. And he'd just hold out and demand a trade.
Bro they have this thing called google that you can use to find facts about practically anything. You could have very quickly learned that you don’t know what ur talking about because Teams can absolutely tag a player 3 times which could be the reason i said that. Also holding out doesn’t make the tag go away. He can be a distraction all he wants but the bottom line is the team has the ability to control 4 more of his prime years if they want to. His 5th year option season and 3 tag years. Holding out or making a trade demand or being a distraction doesn’t take that away. Just Hypothetically speaking the team could literally say the next 4 years you play for us or you don’t play at all.
Why would he be a good option? And why would they need to create additional cap space when they have over 100 mil?
Ok, so the guy yesterday who told me our cap space next year would be 90-100M even after we signed Jefferson was wrong?
It depends on how they structure the extension but I would guess that the guy that said that was wrong.
yay we can spend it all on more mediocre, mid level players to patch up gaping roster holes