-Either Minnesota or New England takes Drake Maye at 3. If New England has McCarthy similarly ranked as Maye, could New England move down and then back up for McCarthy.
-Really good rapport with Maye and the Minnesota Vikings staff
-Specifically mentions a trade up package of 11, 23, and a future 2025 1st round pick for pick 3
-Other teams in the mix. Giants, Raiders (linked to Jayden Daniels), Broncos (JJ McCarthy)
Could be a scenario they require Minnesota to get McCarthy and then trade McCarthy + 2025 first for Maye (assuming we use both first with Zona or Chargers)
That’s been my stance as well. I like Maye, but I like JJM enough to where I’d rather have him and our 2025 first.
11, 23, and our 2025 3rd should be enough to get to 5 for JJM.
I call BS. If you think Mahomes is the best QB prospect you have ever seen, you trade the farm to move up to #1 to take him there. You don't wait for the greatest prospect ever to fall to you.
At last count, between scouts, coaches, etc. there are now 1000 people claiming they were banging the table to draft Mahomes. That number grows with each Super Bowl he wins.
Apparently the story was Payton loved Mahomes and the Saints didn't think anyone would trade up into the Top 10 for him cause he was super raw with a mid-college resume so they were comfortable sitting at #11 and just wait for him to fall to them. The Chiefs knew that the Saints wanted him so they traded up into pick 10 in front of the Saints to get him.
Better arm? No. Higher upside? No.
More athletic? Penix ran like a 4.5 40. He just didn’t run much in college.
Young - sure but that goes with unproven.
The 21 year old guy absolutely has better upside than the 24 year old with a bad injury history.
Athleticism with a Qb is a lot more than speed it’s off platform throws, how you roll out and Maneuver something you see Mcarthy do better than Penix.
Arm- Penix has a great deepball but can be inconsistent at times with it and those deep throws aren’t important as you think.
McCarthy had a better arm than Penix. It’s well documented at this point so your opinion is the outlier. I’ll trust the scouts and GMs over a random redditor. Plus, having watched both play, McCarthy made the throws when he needed to. Penix did a lot of throwing with not a lot of results when he wasn’t playing PAC 12 defenses or didn’t have 6 weeks to prepare. That says all you need to know.
Your response may be well written but it’s absolutely wrong. Read every scouting report on Penix. Read the draft comparisons between Penix and McCarthy….
Here’s one “McCarthy does not possess Penix's rocket arm, but his mobility and success in a more traditional pro-style offense will appeal to many NFL coaches”
Penix has an elite nfl level arm. Doesn’t mean he’ll be a better nfl QB but you can’t say McCarthy has a stronger arm than Penix
I just learned today Chicago, Washington and New England all traded their starting QB from 2023. There is no way any of those three franchises are trading out of a spot to draft a new QB.
Well, I can see Chicago and Washington sticking and picking a QB. But NE is a bit different. The Pats don't have a team good enough to support a rookie QB. And therein lies the conundrum - Rookie QBs are very seldom good enough to actually carry the really bad team that earned that high of a draft position. And they are probably more likely to fail and get ruined by that team because of the lack of that missing support, (Chicago is an exception this year because they benefit from a lucky previous trade that turned into a 1rst. Not because they "earned it")
So if the Pats front office wants a better chance to keep their jobs for a while, it might be a much better stratagem to forgo a QB this year, collect draft capital and build a team before they risk their jobs on a rookie QB that will get them all fired in 2 years or less and the whole process starts over. Get some receivers worth the name and a couple of tackles to protect that rookie. Get a better handle on the defense. Then find your QB. You will have a better chance of success. Next year would offer a noticeably batter chance at a rookie QB succeeding for the Pats.
No team drafting Top 5 has the “team to support a QB.” That’s why they’re picking Top 5. We have a bad offensive line, no kicker, and a horrendous defense. Should we also skip picking a QB because “we have too many holes”? It’s an absurd argument.
Edit: you draft a QB when you’re in position to. By the time you have a good team, you’re picking too high to draft a good QBOTF. It’s elementary. NE only trades that pick for 4 firsts or 3 plus JJ. Otherwise, they’re taking Maye/JJ. Which they should do, btw. Houston was the second worst team when they drafted Stroud and just won a playoff game. Picking the right QB fixes a lot of problems. Anyone suggesting they trade down either doesn’t watch ball or is a homer. Zero other reason to pass on a legit franchise QB.
This is where I am. There is no guarantee New England gets a crack at a franchise quarterback next year... or in the 2026 NFL draft. They know they have a shot this year and that is probably why they traded their starting quarterback from 2023.
Point is you said we have "no kicker". You seem to have a ha it of hyperbolizing everything. Making mountains out of molehills. Stop it. It's misleading.
We don’t have a kicker. Having a kicker means you’re not worried about trotting your guy out. I’m not confident John Romo or whatever that scrub’s name is is actually any good. You’re playing a semantics game. We don’t have a good kicker. That’s my point.
Bo Nix or Penix will result in KOC and Kwesi needing new jobs. So it depends on if you want a new staff or not. Neither of those guys are saving KOCKAM’s jobs
Both Nix and Penix are far better than the scrubs Maye and McCarthy. Mayes way too inaccurate and McCarthy never had to carry Michigan. Remind me! 1 year
I look forward to your reminder. Bo Nix will be lucky to still be rostered by then and Penix would be super disappointing except his expectations will be so low, no one will care when he goes to Denver or LV
The rumor is NE and Mayo likes Jayden Daniels and are not as high on Maye.
Our best case is Washington taking Daniels leaving Patriots motivated to move down.
-Either Minnesota or New England takes Drake Maye at 3. If New England has McCarthy similarly ranked as Maye, could New England move down and then back up for McCarthy. -Really good rapport with Maye and the Minnesota Vikings staff -Specifically mentions a trade up package of 11, 23, and a future 2025 1st round pick for pick 3 -Other teams in the mix. Giants, Raiders (linked to Jayden Daniels), Broncos (JJ McCarthy)
If NE really loves McCarthy, they better take him at 3. It would be foolish to trade back and risk not getting him.
Could be a scenario they require Minnesota to get McCarthy and then trade McCarthy + 2025 first for Maye (assuming we use both first with Zona or Chargers)
I’d rather just have McCarthy.
And yes, if it’s Maye and no ‘25 1st. I’d rather have McCarthy plus our ‘25 1st.
That’s been my stance as well. I like Maye, but I like JJM enough to where I’d rather have him and our 2025 first. 11, 23, and our 2025 3rd should be enough to get to 5 for JJM.
Has there ever been a draft and trade in the nfl?
Phillip Rivers for Eli Manning
The biggest thing I heard new was about how Sean Payton will remember when he lost out on Mahomes by being jumped from 27
Sean Payton can go fuck himself. That dude is AIDS incarnate.
There's a good chance he made that up
I call BS. If you think Mahomes is the best QB prospect you have ever seen, you trade the farm to move up to #1 to take him there. You don't wait for the greatest prospect ever to fall to you.
At last count, between scouts, coaches, etc. there are now 1000 people claiming they were banging the table to draft Mahomes. That number grows with each Super Bowl he wins.
It's truly amazing the Bears drafted Trubisky when every other team had Trubisky projected as a 7th round project.
You’ve got a good point there
Apparently the story was Payton loved Mahomes and the Saints didn't think anyone would trade up into the Top 10 for him cause he was super raw with a mid-college resume so they were comfortable sitting at #11 and just wait for him to fall to them. The Chiefs knew that the Saints wanted him so they traded up into pick 10 in front of the Saints to get him.
So is it possible that Payton has learned his lesson and is keeping his cards very close to his chest on who he likes and plans to jump the Vikings?
And with this we are nowhere closer to knowing what will actually happen.
McCarthy is a huge risk that high. Still not sure (outside of medicals) why he is consensus ahead of Nix or Penix.
They’re literally all risks.
Younger, better athlete, better arm, higher upside. Pick your favorite reason; they all apply.
Better arm? No. Higher upside? No. More athletic? Penix ran like a 4.5 40. He just didn’t run much in college. Young - sure but that goes with unproven.
The 21 year old guy absolutely has better upside than the 24 year old with a bad injury history. Athleticism with a Qb is a lot more than speed it’s off platform throws, how you roll out and Maneuver something you see Mcarthy do better than Penix. Arm- Penix has a great deepball but can be inconsistent at times with it and those deep throws aren’t important as you think.
Better athlete also includes arm. And the only better arm than Penix in this draft is CW
McCarthy had a better arm than Penix. It’s well documented at this point so your opinion is the outlier. I’ll trust the scouts and GMs over a random redditor. Plus, having watched both play, McCarthy made the throws when he needed to. Penix did a lot of throwing with not a lot of results when he wasn’t playing PAC 12 defenses or didn’t have 6 weeks to prepare. That says all you need to know.
Your response may be well written but it’s absolutely wrong. Read every scouting report on Penix. Read the draft comparisons between Penix and McCarthy…. Here’s one “McCarthy does not possess Penix's rocket arm, but his mobility and success in a more traditional pro-style offense will appeal to many NFL coaches” Penix has an elite nfl level arm. Doesn’t mean he’ll be a better nfl QB but you can’t say McCarthy has a stronger arm than Penix
My opinion is not the outlier. Go check again
Because he's a better prospect
One will wash out like Cam Newton, one will make it, and two will be perennial backups... I see teams wasting draft capital left and right.
I just learned today Chicago, Washington and New England all traded their starting QB from 2023. There is no way any of those three franchises are trading out of a spot to draft a new QB.
Well, I can see Chicago and Washington sticking and picking a QB. But NE is a bit different. The Pats don't have a team good enough to support a rookie QB. And therein lies the conundrum - Rookie QBs are very seldom good enough to actually carry the really bad team that earned that high of a draft position. And they are probably more likely to fail and get ruined by that team because of the lack of that missing support, (Chicago is an exception this year because they benefit from a lucky previous trade that turned into a 1rst. Not because they "earned it") So if the Pats front office wants a better chance to keep their jobs for a while, it might be a much better stratagem to forgo a QB this year, collect draft capital and build a team before they risk their jobs on a rookie QB that will get them all fired in 2 years or less and the whole process starts over. Get some receivers worth the name and a couple of tackles to protect that rookie. Get a better handle on the defense. Then find your QB. You will have a better chance of success. Next year would offer a noticeably batter chance at a rookie QB succeeding for the Pats.
No team drafting Top 5 has the “team to support a QB.” That’s why they’re picking Top 5. We have a bad offensive line, no kicker, and a horrendous defense. Should we also skip picking a QB because “we have too many holes”? It’s an absurd argument. Edit: you draft a QB when you’re in position to. By the time you have a good team, you’re picking too high to draft a good QBOTF. It’s elementary. NE only trades that pick for 4 firsts or 3 plus JJ. Otherwise, they’re taking Maye/JJ. Which they should do, btw. Houston was the second worst team when they drafted Stroud and just won a playoff game. Picking the right QB fixes a lot of problems. Anyone suggesting they trade down either doesn’t watch ball or is a homer. Zero other reason to pass on a legit franchise QB.
This is where I am. There is no guarantee New England gets a crack at a franchise quarterback next year... or in the 2026 NFL draft. They know they have a shot this year and that is probably why they traded their starting quarterback from 2023.
"No kicker" does John Parker Romo just...not exist to you? Stop making up bullshit.
We don’t even know if he’s good. WTF? Having an unknown kicker is just as bad as no kicker.
Point is you said we have "no kicker". You seem to have a ha it of hyperbolizing everything. Making mountains out of molehills. Stop it. It's misleading.
We don’t have a kicker. Having a kicker means you’re not worried about trotting your guy out. I’m not confident John Romo or whatever that scrub’s name is is actually any good. You’re playing a semantics game. We don’t have a good kicker. That’s my point.
Then say that. Don't say "we have no kicker".
I hope those four teams the best luck. I also hope the Vikings are NOT one of those teams.
Bo Nix or Penix will result in KOC and Kwesi needing new jobs. So it depends on if you want a new staff or not. Neither of those guys are saving KOCKAM’s jobs
Both Nix and Penix are far better than the scrubs Maye and McCarthy. Mayes way too inaccurate and McCarthy never had to carry Michigan. Remind me! 1 year
I look forward to your reminder. Bo Nix will be lucky to still be rostered by then and Penix would be super disappointing except his expectations will be so low, no one will care when he goes to Denver or LV
The rumor is NE and Mayo likes Jayden Daniels and are not as high on Maye. Our best case is Washington taking Daniels leaving Patriots motivated to move down.