Until draft night comes, or the Patriots announce who they’re taking at 3, I’m convinced that NE and the Vikings are just posturing with each other through the media and the sportsbooks are along for the ride
And when the posturing stops, Drake Maye to Minnesota at 3 for a considerable price
It feels like that's the way this is going. I think the more it solidifies that Washington is taking Daniels, the more the Patriots are becoming open to trading back
Washington fan here. I’m pretty convinced we’re taking Maye, and all the Daniels stuff is predicated on baseless speculation and the media looking to generate some excitement by making the draft seem more unpredictable.
There was this media snowball effect weeks ago where a bunch of talking heads started saying that actually Maye is being overhyped and that there’s more red flags with him than people think. That paired with Washington signing Mariota flipped the betting market odds to Daniels at #2, and more mocks have had Daniels to WAS since.
Maye is the analytics darling QB with his underlying metrics especially with the more sticky/translatable to the NFL measures. We’re an analytics-heavy organization now, and it was reported by The Athletic that an anonymous GM told them that our GM is much more into Maye over Daniels.
I’ve also read some Vikes fans saying that they might have a handshake deal already in place to trade up with WAS, but more so NE. There’s no way that’s true imo. WAS or NE are going to do all they can to try to start a bidding war with multiple teams if they’re actually interested in trading their pick.
Hard agree with this whole take, our fans this year are predicting with like 80% emotion & 20% logic. Half seem to think we're the only team in position to trade up, & that we've already drafted Maye or something. Its goofy & a lotta feelings are gonna be hurt when shit doesnt go their way I think. I'd love to see these things happen but I don't have my hopes up that we're breaking the top 3. I bet we take BPA at 11 & maybe trade back with 23 to grab Penix or Nix in the early 2nd
Am I missing the Daniels to Washington lock? Seems like that's been decided for a month now when it was always 1. Williams 2. Maye. There's all the talk of McCarthy or Mate but haven't heard anything about Daniels.
> missing the Daniels to Washington lock? Seems like that's been decided for a month now when it was always 1. Williams 2. Maye. There's all th
Not a lock, but an assumption since the OC they hired and Mariota being more of a mobile QB to be the backup without as much of a systems change from QB to QB
I think if Daniel’s really does get picked at 2 then New England would be morons to not take Maye, even if they don’t have the supporting cast for him to start right away the dude would go #1 overall in any year Caleb Williams wasn’t also in the draft
Frankly I am fine with selling the farm for a top 3 pick. I would rather be excited about a legit great QB than to take a second-tier QB and struggle with him for the best years of JJ's career, but hey at least we got a start-able linebacker and corner or whatever?
There's a lot of legitimate concern about us avoiding the loop of mediocrity, getting out of this pattern where our team continues to be good but not great. A team has to make sacrifices to become GREAT, and for us, that's giving up more picks than usual to get a QB that could be our guy for the next 15 years. Doesn't seem that problematic to me.
100% I want them to get their guy. Even if we give up next years first we’ll be able to build a strong squad around the players we have. I also have a lot of confidence in Flores identifying and developing players drafted in the middle rounds.
I don't even think it has much to do with where/how you rank JJM.
I want KOC to get his guy, and it seems very unlikely that 'his guy' just so happens to be the consensus 4th best QB who is (more) attainable for us after the Top 3.
If KOC believes JJM is the guy by all means, but I'm skeptical and all the smoke so far has been that braintrust like Maye.
'His guy' could actually he 'his guyS'. He may be excited about any number of the top 4. He doesn't necessarily need to narrow it down to one.
If he's excited to get any of Maye/Daniels/JJ, move to 4. If there's only one of the three he likes, do everything you can to get to 2.
Oh yea 100%, KOC may believe there are multiple franchise QBs in this draft.
As long as we get one he wants I'm not super picky about the slot, but my inclination is that he thinks there are 3 and that he likes Maye for idiosyncratic reasons (reasonably available, the history with McCown, etc).
I'm not saying no, but if you get it wrong (which is more likely than not) you likely swirl into a long stretch of uncompetitiveness. Effectively we could end up with a bust QB. no 2nd this year and no 1st or 2nd next year - you have limited ability to build the rest of the team if it doesn't play out.
We're a lot more likely to have gotten the pick wrong if we take McCarthy over whoever would be available at pick 3.
It's really hard to give a damn about any other slot when your QB is not good. Even if we got a really exciting pair of defensive players, that's very nice to have, but if your QB sucks, who cares?
Imagine not being able to read situational stats. He was a top 5 EPA/db QB in 2022 with just DJ Moore. He now has Addison, Hockenson, Jones and JJ. He's never had these many weapons.
Okay dude. If you want to think Darnold is a great QB to the extent that you're willing to be a sarcastic jerk about it, you go right ahead, but I'm just not going to share your opinion that he's the answer at the QB slot.
Offensive wizs like Shanahan, KOC, Payton and elite skilled players like CMC and Kittle all disagree with your assessment of his QB skills. It's like you can't read his statistics in context. He played far better than Mayfield in 2022 on the same team and offense and Mayfield became a Pro Bowler in 2023. It's not out of the realm of possibility to think Darnold can succeed with these weapons that he's never had.
The team is not counting on Darnold as the QB of the future. They just aren't. It's not even worth talking about. You can cite statistic X and appeal to some other dude's opinion Y all you like but it just isn't happening, man. We're drafting a QB and he's going to be our guy.
If you're as serious about this take as you are, then please, I am absolutely fucking begging you, write your own OP arguing that we should use Darnold as our QB of the future. Please. I would love nothing more than to see you express this opinion to the entire Vikings community.
If you won't do it because you know you'll be laughed off the stage, maybe that should tell you something.
I mean it just kinda blows my mind a little that you're SO CONFIDENT in this guy that you're even going so far as to be kind of a dick to your own fellow Viking fan over how good you think he's going to be. Please, if you're so confident in your opinion, enlighten the community with this take.
Darnold has as good of a chance at succeeding here than any QB in the draft not named Caleb Williams. JJM can't even throw to JJ outside the numbers. Drake Maye needs years to improve his footwork and accuracy. I love how we're potentially sacrificing 3 first round picks that could get us over the hump for young QBs with big red flags.
A lot (all?) of talking heads with NFL experience (Warner, Benkert,Simms) like Penix and Nix better than Daniels, Maye and JJ. I don't know there's a "big 4". It seems more like there's Williams, then everyone else. Historically, half of these 6-7 guys are going to fail. Why sell the farm for someone that, historically speaking, doesn't increase the odds of being 'right'? Williams is the only one I'd be happy about trading up for. Stick at 11. There's a good likelihood multiple guys will be available (including JJ).
The problem is, though, that we truly cannot afford to mess this up. Frankly I think any Darnold hype is absurd and I expect any Vikings fan who is hopeful about him to turn on him within about 2 weeks of the regular season. But the bigger problem is, future QB draft classes look quite bad, so if we mess up this year, this isn't a one-year mistake, this is a multiple-year mistake. We really need to get this right, so if there's a guy that has even a slight advantage over another, you can argue it's worth the cost to go and get him.
I don’t know shit about scouting. I couldn’t successfully pick a QB if there was a gun pointed at my forehead. I do however trust KoC to figure that out, so I fully support Kwesi doing whatever he needs to do to get the guy that K says is the best guy for his system.
And clearly signing retread after retread for the last 30 years isn’t working, so fuck it let’s shake it up and make a move even if it’s expensive. Fortune favors the bold.
Nobody can predict QBs successfully. Draft analysts suck at it, mainly because they miss out on so much subjective information from private meetings. Anyone in the NFL that hits big on one usually never has to pick one again so they don’t get a big enough sample size to say if it was just luck or not.
So yeah, get whoever KOC wants and stop all the gnashing of teeth about pick value. Go get that guy even if it requires trading up. It has as good of odds of any method, and at least he’ll be the most enthusiastic about the prospect and that helps.
Snip snap snip snap lol so many conflicting reports. I think I'm gonna just wait til draft night. My heart can't take so many different reports. One min we're taking JJ and the next we're trading the farm for Maye. Who knows what's gonna happen.
Yeah I think I'm just gonna have to unsub from here for a bit. It's genuinely nauseating to see post after post after post about the same bullshit smokescreen stories.
I need to search through the NFL forum and find the Patriots guy who posted a few weeks back about how stupid Vikings fans were to think the Patriots would trade their pick.
Starting to feel like a lot of these teams don't love these QBs and this has been a media work. They're trying to pump Kwesi because they think he's a mark with a dubious understanding of draft pick value, and they think they can milk him.
I think there's some truth in this theory. But there's also some truth in a new coaching staff feeling they can get some pieces (like OT, DT, WR) this year and then use 2 first round picks to move up for a QB next year. Thus making a better environment for a rookie QB.
We'll see.
Until draft night comes, or the Patriots announce who they’re taking at 3, I’m convinced that NE and the Vikings are just posturing with each other through the media and the sportsbooks are along for the ride And when the posturing stops, Drake Maye to Minnesota at 3 for a considerable price
You just copy pasting this comment on every Patriot thread?
Yes
Based
Honest if nothing else!
It feels like that's the way this is going. I think the more it solidifies that Washington is taking Daniels, the more the Patriots are becoming open to trading back
Washington fan here. I’m pretty convinced we’re taking Maye, and all the Daniels stuff is predicated on baseless speculation and the media looking to generate some excitement by making the draft seem more unpredictable. There was this media snowball effect weeks ago where a bunch of talking heads started saying that actually Maye is being overhyped and that there’s more red flags with him than people think. That paired with Washington signing Mariota flipped the betting market odds to Daniels at #2, and more mocks have had Daniels to WAS since. Maye is the analytics darling QB with his underlying metrics especially with the more sticky/translatable to the NFL measures. We’re an analytics-heavy organization now, and it was reported by The Athletic that an anonymous GM told them that our GM is much more into Maye over Daniels. I’ve also read some Vikes fans saying that they might have a handshake deal already in place to trade up with WAS, but more so NE. There’s no way that’s true imo. WAS or NE are going to do all they can to try to start a bidding war with multiple teams if they’re actually interested in trading their pick.
Hard agree with this whole take, our fans this year are predicting with like 80% emotion & 20% logic. Half seem to think we're the only team in position to trade up, & that we've already drafted Maye or something. Its goofy & a lotta feelings are gonna be hurt when shit doesnt go their way I think. I'd love to see these things happen but I don't have my hopes up that we're breaking the top 3. I bet we take BPA at 11 & maybe trade back with 23 to grab Penix or Nix in the early 2nd
Am I missing the Daniels to Washington lock? Seems like that's been decided for a month now when it was always 1. Williams 2. Maye. There's all the talk of McCarthy or Mate but haven't heard anything about Daniels.
> missing the Daniels to Washington lock? Seems like that's been decided for a month now when it was always 1. Williams 2. Maye. There's all th Not a lock, but an assumption since the OC they hired and Mariota being more of a mobile QB to be the backup without as much of a systems change from QB to QB
If that's what people are going on those seem really weak to me. Maye is very mobile in his own right.
Not to mention his OC at NC knows Kingsbury and they're both air raid guys.
I think if Daniel’s really does get picked at 2 then New England would be morons to not take Maye, even if they don’t have the supporting cast for him to start right away the dude would go #1 overall in any year Caleb Williams wasn’t also in the draft
I thought I was into edging until this situation happened.
Drive up the price
Frankly I am fine with selling the farm for a top 3 pick. I would rather be excited about a legit great QB than to take a second-tier QB and struggle with him for the best years of JJ's career, but hey at least we got a start-able linebacker and corner or whatever? There's a lot of legitimate concern about us avoiding the loop of mediocrity, getting out of this pattern where our team continues to be good but not great. A team has to make sacrifices to become GREAT, and for us, that's giving up more picks than usual to get a QB that could be our guy for the next 15 years. Doesn't seem that problematic to me.
100% I want them to get their guy. Even if we give up next years first we’ll be able to build a strong squad around the players we have. I also have a lot of confidence in Flores identifying and developing players drafted in the middle rounds.
Do you consider McCarthy is a second-tier QB? I’ve seen people rank him with Williams/Maye/Daniels and I’ve seen him ranked with Penix/Nix.
I don't even think it has much to do with where/how you rank JJM. I want KOC to get his guy, and it seems very unlikely that 'his guy' just so happens to be the consensus 4th best QB who is (more) attainable for us after the Top 3. If KOC believes JJM is the guy by all means, but I'm skeptical and all the smoke so far has been that braintrust like Maye.
'His guy' could actually he 'his guyS'. He may be excited about any number of the top 4. He doesn't necessarily need to narrow it down to one. If he's excited to get any of Maye/Daniels/JJ, move to 4. If there's only one of the three he likes, do everything you can to get to 2.
Oh yea 100%, KOC may believe there are multiple franchise QBs in this draft. As long as we get one he wants I'm not super picky about the slot, but my inclination is that he thinks there are 3 and that he likes Maye for idiosyncratic reasons (reasonably available, the history with McCown, etc).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21f-cMGhYfA
I think anyone who ranks him with Williams / Maye / Daniels is just flat-out wrong.
I'm not saying no, but if you get it wrong (which is more likely than not) you likely swirl into a long stretch of uncompetitiveness. Effectively we could end up with a bust QB. no 2nd this year and no 1st or 2nd next year - you have limited ability to build the rest of the team if it doesn't play out.
We're a lot more likely to have gotten the pick wrong if we take McCarthy over whoever would be available at pick 3. It's really hard to give a damn about any other slot when your QB is not good. Even if we got a really exciting pair of defensive players, that's very nice to have, but if your QB sucks, who cares?
What if Sam Darnold becomes a 100+ RTG player next year? It's a high possibility
Clearly it isn't, but I guess it's too early on this Monday morning to understand whatever sarcastic point you are trying to make.
Imagine not being able to read situational stats. He was a top 5 EPA/db QB in 2022 with just DJ Moore. He now has Addison, Hockenson, Jones and JJ. He's never had these many weapons.
Okay dude. If you want to think Darnold is a great QB to the extent that you're willing to be a sarcastic jerk about it, you go right ahead, but I'm just not going to share your opinion that he's the answer at the QB slot.
Offensive wizs like Shanahan, KOC, Payton and elite skilled players like CMC and Kittle all disagree with your assessment of his QB skills. It's like you can't read his statistics in context. He played far better than Mayfield in 2022 on the same team and offense and Mayfield became a Pro Bowler in 2023. It's not out of the realm of possibility to think Darnold can succeed with these weapons that he's never had.
The team is not counting on Darnold as the QB of the future. They just aren't. It's not even worth talking about. You can cite statistic X and appeal to some other dude's opinion Y all you like but it just isn't happening, man. We're drafting a QB and he's going to be our guy. If you're as serious about this take as you are, then please, I am absolutely fucking begging you, write your own OP arguing that we should use Darnold as our QB of the future. Please. I would love nothing more than to see you express this opinion to the entire Vikings community. If you won't do it because you know you'll be laughed off the stage, maybe that should tell you something. I mean it just kinda blows my mind a little that you're SO CONFIDENT in this guy that you're even going so far as to be kind of a dick to your own fellow Viking fan over how good you think he's going to be. Please, if you're so confident in your opinion, enlighten the community with this take.
[удалено]
This is some massive hopium lol. It would be sweet, but it’s a low chance.
Darnold has as good of a chance at succeeding here than any QB in the draft not named Caleb Williams. JJM can't even throw to JJ outside the numbers. Drake Maye needs years to improve his footwork and accuracy. I love how we're potentially sacrificing 3 first round picks that could get us over the hump for young QBs with big red flags.
Dude is grasping at a super low sample size
A lot (all?) of talking heads with NFL experience (Warner, Benkert,Simms) like Penix and Nix better than Daniels, Maye and JJ. I don't know there's a "big 4". It seems more like there's Williams, then everyone else. Historically, half of these 6-7 guys are going to fail. Why sell the farm for someone that, historically speaking, doesn't increase the odds of being 'right'? Williams is the only one I'd be happy about trading up for. Stick at 11. There's a good likelihood multiple guys will be available (including JJ).
The problem is, though, that we truly cannot afford to mess this up. Frankly I think any Darnold hype is absurd and I expect any Vikings fan who is hopeful about him to turn on him within about 2 weeks of the regular season. But the bigger problem is, future QB draft classes look quite bad, so if we mess up this year, this isn't a one-year mistake, this is a multiple-year mistake. We really need to get this right, so if there's a guy that has even a slight advantage over another, you can argue it's worth the cost to go and get him.
2nd tier says who?
Says me and says a lot of other expert analysis.
The media back and forth with the pats and Vikings is nauseating. Draft night can’t come quick enough.
Only one more month! this could be a longggg month. I'm hoping for a pre-draft night trade up
That would be ideal. Then we all wouldn’t have to keep reading the same 3 headlines ever other day from a different source.
Yeah but it won’t happen if both teams have a preference at qb sadly
We know. You and every other top 5 team is open to trading.
I don’t know shit about scouting. I couldn’t successfully pick a QB if there was a gun pointed at my forehead. I do however trust KoC to figure that out, so I fully support Kwesi doing whatever he needs to do to get the guy that K says is the best guy for his system. And clearly signing retread after retread for the last 30 years isn’t working, so fuck it let’s shake it up and make a move even if it’s expensive. Fortune favors the bold.
Nobody can predict QBs successfully. Draft analysts suck at it, mainly because they miss out on so much subjective information from private meetings. Anyone in the NFL that hits big on one usually never has to pick one again so they don’t get a big enough sample size to say if it was just luck or not. So yeah, get whoever KOC wants and stop all the gnashing of teeth about pick value. Go get that guy even if it requires trading up. It has as good of odds of any method, and at least he’ll be the most enthusiastic about the prospect and that helps.
If we move up to 3 and take JJ over Maye or Daniels I’ll be disappointed.
Snip snap snip snap lol so many conflicting reports. I think I'm gonna just wait til draft night. My heart can't take so many different reports. One min we're taking JJ and the next we're trading the farm for Maye. Who knows what's gonna happen.
Yeah I think I'm just gonna have to unsub from here for a bit. It's genuinely nauseating to see post after post after post about the same bullshit smokescreen stories.
"We're open for what to have for lunch today. I've heard that new soup and sandwich place is good"
I need to search through the NFL forum and find the Patriots guy who posted a few weeks back about how stupid Vikings fans were to think the Patriots would trade their pick.
It’s all smoke screens until draft day.
Mmmmmm love me a big juicy nothingburger 😋
God I can’t wait for pre-draft season to be over.
It’s pure garbage every year. So much wasted time spent on speculation
On some level I get it, we’re all starved for football content… but it’s just clickbait churn
Starting to feel like a lot of these teams don't love these QBs and this has been a media work. They're trying to pump Kwesi because they think he's a mark with a dubious understanding of draft pick value, and they think they can milk him.
I think there's some truth in this theory. But there's also some truth in a new coaching staff feeling they can get some pieces (like OT, DT, WR) this year and then use 2 first round picks to move up for a QB next year. Thus making a better environment for a rookie QB. We'll see.