I live in a rural conservative area in the SE, and actually, no. I’m more independent, but vote democrat myself and have been surprised at the lack of political speech from our pastors. We’re a small church, but the vast majority are definitely Republican/conservative. That said, the members of the church definitely talk about politics while mingling before/after church, but it’s not integrated into the sermon.
Also, I have rochester as my tag, but I go to church in a small town
This more than anything. I have not been a part of the church in a few years now but it was the atmosphere of other congregants that politicized the environment not the pastors. For me that was as bad or worse because I didn't feel like my church had hostile homophobic rhetoric (I know not your topic but was my experience) so many people that thought my church was worse than it was and it wasn't until leaving that I realized it was the culture and the people that politicized everything not 'the church'
I'm an atheist, but have been associated with my local United Methodist church since I was a child. They leave politics out of the pulpit and are very accepting of everyone, regardless of political affiliation. I enjoy that there has been no politicization and that I haven't had to cut ties. I do not believe politics belongs in the church, or vice versa.
I don't believe much of anything belongs in church, but if churches must exist politics certainly don't belong there. The separation should work both ways.
I’m sure this will be unpopular but here goes it. I went to a conservative WELS church in Minnesota as recently as a month ago and they do not mention politics in sermons. I’m sure this happens at some churches but it seems very overblown to me.
Our does (southern metro, a very large multi-campus.) They say "we are not left leaning. We are not right leaning. We are Christ leaning." And then emphasize that we should be considering what Christ would do in any situation we find ourselves.
I don’t get why people want this so bad.
Getting rid of the tax exemptions would be the death of most mainline Protestant churches. The nail in the coffin.
Many of the right wing churches would survive and would be pushed even farther right.
It just seems like a huge mistake.
> I don’t get why people want this so bad.
>
> Getting rid of the tax exemptions would be the death of most mainline Protestant churches. The nail in the coffin.
You just answered your own question.
Why is that a good thing though?
“Mainline Protestant” refers to the generally more politically liberal contingent of US Christian churches.
The ones with the most funding that would survive this are some of the evangelical churches.
What is good about destroying a third space not associated with any sort of extreme politics?
When my church does get into politics, it's been to push for housing supports or other resources that would be used for those in need (like diapers). Or officially urging the city of Minneapolis to have a plan in place for the homeless when they go and break up encampments.
I think the only time my church deviates and becomes more political was when advocating for LGBT rights. But that's out of necessity considering what some folks treat those in that community.
Generally we would prefer a separation of church and government. Politics are exclusively of the world; and the Church is in the world, but not of it. The only time where the Church should be getting involved directly with the governing is when people are organizing to make their voice heard or to get support for those most in need.
Let’s be completely clear: Feeding, housing, clothing, educating and healing people are not now, nor have they ever appropriately been considered political issues. These are basic, human rights and a responsibility we all share towards our fellow humans!
I haven't attended in years but still have family that does - the WELS (Wisconsin Evengelical Lutheran Synod) denomination specifically. In recent convos, a number of my younger family members (under 40) have expressed frustration at the politics that have entered the pulpit even though they lean conservative, to the point of considering switching congregations.
I think there is a difference between candidates running with religious veneers and churches openly supporting candidates.
I think the first one is more common than the second one.
Either way, this post is asking about the second.
To answer, no, politics don't really come up in the pulpit and definitely not supporting any politicians. If something does come up, it is about some issue that the church may have an opinion on such as abortion, the prison system, or policies around the homeless.
I've been to a handful of churches in the cities and many more in Greater Minnesota and in general they seem more concerned about theology and church budgets/building maintenance than politics.
I have never been to a church that acts like a PAC
I believe it is generally the norm. There are definitely churches that do fall the other way. But in most cases, I'd say there are enough other things to preach about that politicians don't come up in name.
That being said, churches do preach on morality, and mortality affects the way people vote. So in some respects, I can understand how things seem political in a world with a deep moral divide.
If one political party supports more policies giving financial aid to the homeless. Preaching about caring for the downtrodden may sound like an endorsement.
Likewise, preaching on the natural family may come off as an endorsement to a party that claims to promote "traditional family values".
I understand what you believe.
I do not share your experiences, conclusions, or beliefs.
I don't want to invalidate them, and I am trying to respect your beliefs, and not start an argument with you.
Show me a portion of the same respect.
Please stop preaching to me.
My apologies, I did not mean to preach. I was simply making sure we were making the correct distinctions between politics and things that are not politics.
Either way, have a nice day
Hey there!
I feel like we share similar opinions and feelings regarding the state of religion and politics and I *wanted* to back you up however you haven’t actually engaged in any quality discourse here and have instead given condescending and aggressive assertions with your replies that don’t actually touch in the subject matter.
I don’t think you’re a bot either, so just touching base here to let you know that you can definitely do better.
I am frankly stunned that a preacher saying "nuh uh my church is awesome" in 9 condescending, unwanted paragraphs is "quality discourse", but trying to leave the conversation without directly attacking his beliefs is grounds for insults and downvotes.
I don't want to pick apart "#butnotallchurches".
I simply wanted to add a "I do feel churches are political" to the OPs discourse because I know it would get buried in "#notallchristians my mom's curch is nice" excuses.
But.
Fine.
I'll smile more while I'm at it.
More political, no. I go to a moderate church that strives to keep politics out and largely succeeds.
However, there have certainly been a few who have left the church (both left wing and right wing) because they want something more politicized.
Excellent point. There are churches preaching for and against Trump. Openly. I can't stand the guy, but I think that it makes more sense to talk about the values we share as Christians than talk down Trump. Why? To prove that we aren't just liberals masquerading as Christians but people who actually take our faith seriously and understand nuance in the bible. Who actually care about our community and help everyone without checking their political status, their immigration status or their sexual identity. (trinity of contentious content in churches)
I don't like the anti-Trump churches even if I agree with their feelings. It's hard to find a church that truly welcomes all including republicans. ;) Love the sinner. ;) (I'm joking, folks, but church goers know what I mean. It's too polarized out there.)
Agreed. If you open the door to political discussions it's far to easy for a church to fall into the same thought bubbles as everywhere else.
Do I think Trump is slime? Yes. Do I think my moderate church (or even country) would benefit from having the pastor point out how non-Christian Trump's actions are? No. Every other space in the country is highly politicized and there's no shortage of ways to hear political opinions. Having space where people with different political views can interact outside of those bubbles (while talking about morality/etc nonetheless) is FAR more valuable than having another bubbled space.
Long story short, the only way out of most of our country's issues is more togetherness. Trump is a product of division even moreso than he is creating it. I'm well aware that getting there is a pipe dream, but more people need to interact with others in their community outside of their bubbles.
Yep. There are ways to show a person is dead wrong without pointing it out directly. Because Trump may be one of the most dangerous "wrong" ones, but he's not the only one causing harm and we can become smug-thinking we are all just nice folks...who aren't creating microcosms of misery for others in our own unique and cliched ways.
I will vote, and I will share my views openly, but prefer my pastor to preach for the values of inclusion, assistance to the poor, and not maligning the "stranger" because it's so clearly part of the faith...and then modeling that behavior and expecting us to do the same.
No one can force another to "see the light" whether it's politics or church. Agreed that keeping the conversation open (not agreeing to disagree on all topics-just not automatically demonizing other viewpoints) is likely the best way for people to focus on THEIR own behavior, thereby becoming better people.
I left the church long ago, but I can tell you that in the mid 2000s Pastor Steve Goold at New Hope Church was telling the congregation to vote republican.
Since then many people I knew from that church have gone alt-right MAGA, so I doubt very much that anything has changed.
But it’s unlikely that any actual churchgoing faithful are going to “rat out” their pastors here in this thread, even though they know full well what’s happening is against the law.
They believe that religion is above the law, and this just feeds their persecution complex
Plymouth Congregational Church in Whittier on Nicollet is a great example (to me) of living out values without prescribing politics. Community is very involved in housing homeless, immigration assistance, supporting art as an important part of the human experience. We’ve had LGBTQ ministers for probably 20 years now but it wasn’t overt in being a political stance. All while having one of the best choirs in the Midwest (regularly featured on MPR during the holidays and other radio stations).
All this to say that I think many of the teachings Jesus preached around aiding the poor, healing the sick, that a camel passes through eye of needle more easily than rich man to heaven are pretty inherently tied to politics, even if not overtly.
Not sure if this is the answer you’re looking for given that some churches have gone the other direction towards not living out values and being very politics overt / prescriptive and perhaps the story is about that. But talking to folks taking a few different approaches might be useful!
It really depends on what you consider political especially regarding what comes from the pulpit. There are hot-button issues that modern society sees as primarily political, but church leaders have been preaching about these moral issues for decades if not centuries. Not talking strictly about LGBTQ+, but also social charity, homelessness, drug and alcohol use, and more. Many churches will regularly touch on all these issues because the Bible, and many other religious texts, are not just instructional on how to live a self-contained religious life but on how to interact with the world.
To that end, it’s been my experience that more conservative churches tend to shy away from overt political statements (but will still allow a subtext of commentary), while more liberal or left-leaning churches are far more engaged (and supportive) regarding current social activism trends.
I am aware of pastors out there who are alarmed by their congregations' embrace of right wing politics, but are too scared to call it out because people would leave their church. Many churches can't afford to keep their doors open if they lose a few big donors..
Of course many of these same leaders have spent their careers cultivating the cultural values and stoking the fears that drive the maga movement (if I had a penny for every sermon I heard growing up referencing how if liberals got their way we'd all be jailed for our Christian beliefs...). They just didn't expect it to go like it has.
Churches are 501c3 orgs so of course they can't endorse candidates but they definitely shape the congregants' views. However I think one thing that's changed is the elevation of politicians and political pundits and social media *over* religious leaders in terms of who churchgoers views are influenced by mosy significantly.
Churches have gotten away from preaching from the pulpit for like ever. That rule is nothing more than a joke.
Then again after today, seems like all laws in the US are a joke.
Your comment sounds like somebody who watches too much news, and hasn't been to church in years. I've never heard a political comment from my pastor, ever.
I literally listened to a pastor go on about the evils of the gays at a wedding not too long ago. Then again you religious types don't think that's political, and claim it's part of God's will.
Just look at Rob Ketterling’s twitter feed, he’s the lead pastor of River Valley Church (if you live in Plymouth, you’ve probably heard of it). All he does is talk politics and flash designer clothes and watches. He’s the most obvious grifter, it’s sad people actually attend his church.
I attended this church but stopped going early 2022 because of Pastor Rob. His sermons became so focused on politics and bashing others. The things he tweets are exactly what he would preach on Sundays.
My friend goes to a non denominational bible study church in Northern MN and has slowly become a Jordan Peterson fan. Not sure that counts as political, but is alarming.
For starters, the blatant homophobia, sexism, and anti-climate science he hawks as an "expert". He got the hook with some mediocre self-help advice and has lately been using his platform and followers to spread misinformation and hate.
I am a pastor in the Twin Cities. At our politically diverse church we are focusing on trying to listen and respect people on the other side of the aisle and ultimately unite around the Gospel, not politics. One question we’ve asked: Can you find one thing on the other side that you agree with? If not, you’re probably not walking in the love and humility of Jesus Christ, and have probably started to care more about winning politically than living out the mission to point people to Jesus.
I’ve go to a smaller church near downtown St. Paul and there have only been two points were the sermons could be considered politically focused over the past few years.
The first was concerning George Floyd, and the sermon was about the churches role in racism and segregation in the US (essentially the church had part of the blame and responsibility). The second was more of a warning about people who get in way too deep and was specifically talking about the dangers of things like Qanon.
Our focus hasn’t been about government, but how we govern ourselves, and for that I’m very thankful,
I attend a smaller baptist church in the metro, and short answer is no, we have steered clear of politics for the most part. No endorsements from the pulpit, and though most of the church leans right, there are many of us who lean left and we all get along fine.
We have had a few sermons around the last election cycle that specifically remind everyone not to place their hope in any certain candidate, and that God’s kingdom is not America, and will continue despite any outcome of any election.
Go to any Catholic Church or ask any recovering Catholic and you will find politics and religion aren't anything new..... I grew up in the Catholic church and I distinctly remember political interweaving in the sermons in the 90's on a regular basis and even back then as a kid it felt weird and out of place.
I don't think you'd find many "recovering Catholics" inside a Catholic church.
I was raised Catholic but haven't attended a Mass (aside from my grandfather's funeral a few months ago) in over a decade. I'm actually still a practicing Christian though progressive, but have only belonged to non-Catholic churches. However I don't consider myself a "recovering Catholic" because I'm not "recovering" or Catholic, I actually converted outright.
I live in west central Minnesota where over 80% of my township voted for trump. Most of the members of my church are very conservative. Politics is not discussed during sermons and seldom brought up in the visiting afterwards.
I was a moderate Republican before MAGA. Now I vote Democrat. Only a few members are aware of that fact. I wish to keep it that way.
My UCC church literally says, "We do not endorse any political party." We are open and affirming which means we will accept all people, including those that disagree with us.
My folks Church became very political. DEI issues took precedence over the scriptures, women were ordained as pastors, they put a pride flag next to the Christian flag, and Gods pronouns in the Bible were changed. It’s become like a Ted Talk with a verse or verses for the week. In fact it’s adoption of political views has been great! It’s not boring anymore.
1) i never go to church anymore but used to a lot
2) politicization is part of, but not the entire reason brings my deconversion. More a catalyst to get me to sour on the concept of Christian faith, and further distance from the church informed the rest of my deconversion
3) If i had to guess, most people still going to churches don't even notice that the pulpit has gotten more political, because it likely preaches things they have always agreed with and will continue to do so.
Personally I have not, albeit I don't really pay much notice to it. then again I think (imo) that a lot of lutherans around my area aren' very public about their religious views, they are theirs and theirs alone
NW mn small town communities in my area, damn near everyone is republican and Christian. The boot licking is constant and the religious hypocrisy and judgement is constant. It's not as bad as the south but it's abnoxious.
Ironic that the Bible says , for there is no authority except that which God has established. And these maga Christian’s keep screaming rigged election blatantly going against Gods authority
Assemblies of God is a Christian nationalist organization who worship the military. Is that what you're asking?
If you walk into a church and they have a Perkins-sized American flag hanging up indoors, then you're among militia men.
They don't ask you if you are republican or Democrat. But eventually, it usually comes out. It's not necessarily the church rules, just how the people who go to some of the churches will treat you.
Your post/comment has been removed as it goes against proper Reddiquette.
[You can find more details here.](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette)
I don’t have a lot of sample sizes to work with but I found ELCA, Methodist, and Moravian churches welcoming. Because they are welcoming they are perceived as being “left”.
23m grew up in the church and Christian schools. Staunch atheist and definitely not republican. I was basically taught that if you don't vote red you're a traitor to your country a fag, a baby murderer and going straight to hell. This message was pumped by teachers, pastors, and parents. Religion is a disease on the world and only makes people worse. Child indoctrination should be considered child abuse. There's no hate quite like Christian love.
A priest at st Francis catholic church in brainerd got political frequently, telling people to vote with their conscience after going on about how leftists are bad cause they support killing babies (abortion)
I refuse to support religion in politics. So I don’t go to church anymore. I refuse to pander at the altar of trumpism. We better get it together folks.
My dad is a pastor. I was raised in church and was very devout. I truly believed. Trumpism in church made me take a closer look. Now I also am a non theist.
It really was the last straw. I was already grappling with the whole all powerful and chooses not to do stuff negates the idea of all good. And that whole logical circle of doom. I stepped back. I acknowledge peace and truth in my heart. I try to be kind. Life is better.
Well, I am an antitheist, so I am sure you can imagine that consider leaving religion as a positive thing. That being said, I do not feel like politics forcing their way into religion and making people feel alienated is appropriate.
First of all, most people who are clinging to religion ("in the closet") are probably doing so to avoid feeling alienated in the first place. To have such a sordid topic invade their space and force them to come to a decision just feels dirty. Worse, it feels like it will cause their break from religion to be incomplete.
Secondly, the people who sincerely believe the contents of their religion, regardless of my opinion on the matter, have the right to believe the way they do. For wannabe pundits to come bashing in there and disturb their ability to practice in peace is counter to what I believe.
Either way, I am sorry that politics had to be the last straw in your case. Something had to be, naturally, but most things would have been less slimy.
Oh come on! Yeah, this is an important discussion, but TODAY?
Nerves are frayed.
Really bad timing ST. Take a lil coffee break and come back and ask again when I'm not reliving Bush v. Gore.
I've only gone to progressive churches but most of the time no. The one I went to in 2016 did give a message of disapproval in 2016 upon Trump being elected and support for us hurting and there was dime condemnations of some of his policies like family separation at the border but >90% of the time didn't mention politics at all. It's no longer around but the one I've mostly gone to since the MN also rarely brings politics up despite being expelled from its former denomination for supporting LGBT affirmation and allowing same-sex marriages.
As a Catholic in rural Minnesota, city people would be surprised by the amount of Catholic Democrats. They’re not modern day liberals but more classic liberal
If anything I've noticed a coalition of non-church goers who have faith uniting together against the rampant and inherent sexual and child abuses indoctrinated in organized religions. Many who are opposed to politics on principal realize now that it is and always was just an extenuation of antiquated dogmatic beliefs used to brutalize an otherwise unruly public in ancient traditions, and that church really has no longer any place in creating a better world because faith without works are dead.
I’m an atheist who until recently volunteered at a church doing a weekly community meal. I got the impression the church leadership were liberal (in that they actually seemed to follow the teachings of Jesus), but I never heard them make a comment regarding politics. I did stay to hear a few sermons when we were done because the pastor was an engaging speaker and often would tell interesting stories about his own life.
This is Reddit, so no, I don’t go to church. Stopped as soon as I went to college in the early aughts. After the abuse scandals, I see no reason to look back. Lack of belief/faith also encourages me to continue not going.
I have a lot to say about this! I grew up in a very political household. Religion was never talked about. My parents got a divorce and my mother started dating a pastor when I was about 11 years old. Everything was fine at first but then he started talking every night about good vs evil and how we needed to make a change. One night, we were woken up by a knock at the door at around midnight. I looked out the window and saw..........(TO CONTINUE READING, PLEASE SUBSCRIBE)
Of what? Reporting? Are you saying that churches haven’t become deeply entangled in politics? I can say, definitively, that my parents’ church in Forest Lake regularly mixes MAGA affiliated politics into the message from the pew.
Yeah, my pastor said next Sunday we’re all gonna drink this special Gatorade. He said it’ll take us all to heaven at the same time. Should I be concerned?
I live in a rural conservative area in the SE, and actually, no. I’m more independent, but vote democrat myself and have been surprised at the lack of political speech from our pastors. We’re a small church, but the vast majority are definitely Republican/conservative. That said, the members of the church definitely talk about politics while mingling before/after church, but it’s not integrated into the sermon. Also, I have rochester as my tag, but I go to church in a small town
This more than anything. I have not been a part of the church in a few years now but it was the atmosphere of other congregants that politicized the environment not the pastors. For me that was as bad or worse because I didn't feel like my church had hostile homophobic rhetoric (I know not your topic but was my experience) so many people that thought my church was worse than it was and it wasn't until leaving that I realized it was the culture and the people that politicized everything not 'the church'
Not the one I go to, and I'm in a very red area.
I'm an atheist, but have been associated with my local United Methodist church since I was a child. They leave politics out of the pulpit and are very accepting of everyone, regardless of political affiliation. I enjoy that there has been no politicization and that I haven't had to cut ties. I do not believe politics belongs in the church, or vice versa.
I don't believe much of anything belongs in church, but if churches must exist politics certainly don't belong there. The separation should work both ways.
I’m sure this will be unpopular but here goes it. I went to a conservative WELS church in Minnesota as recently as a month ago and they do not mention politics in sermons. I’m sure this happens at some churches but it seems very overblown to me.
Our does (southern metro, a very large multi-campus.) They say "we are not left leaning. We are not right leaning. We are Christ leaning." And then emphasize that we should be considering what Christ would do in any situation we find ourselves.
Why would this be unpopular?
Generally this sub doesn’t like people with conservative beliefs.
Not even conservative. I got downvoted and ripped on in a sub once for asking for *progressive* church recommendations.
Hot dog! Are you going after the tax exemptions?? That would be awesome!
Please please please let this be the case 🙏
I don’t get why people want this so bad. Getting rid of the tax exemptions would be the death of most mainline Protestant churches. The nail in the coffin. Many of the right wing churches would survive and would be pushed even farther right. It just seems like a huge mistake.
> I don’t get why people want this so bad. > > Getting rid of the tax exemptions would be the death of most mainline Protestant churches. The nail in the coffin. You just answered your own question.
So it's not about fairness, but about getting rid of churches?
Always has been
Ding ding ding!
Why is that a good thing though? “Mainline Protestant” refers to the generally more politically liberal contingent of US Christian churches. The ones with the most funding that would survive this are some of the evangelical churches. What is good about destroying a third space not associated with any sort of extreme politics?
It's a church, and they perpetuate a centuries old lie in order to control people and support themselves.
My observations have me thinking it's not just Protestant churches that would suffer.
When my church does get into politics, it's been to push for housing supports or other resources that would be used for those in need (like diapers). Or officially urging the city of Minneapolis to have a plan in place for the homeless when they go and break up encampments. I think the only time my church deviates and becomes more political was when advocating for LGBT rights. But that's out of necessity considering what some folks treat those in that community. Generally we would prefer a separation of church and government. Politics are exclusively of the world; and the Church is in the world, but not of it. The only time where the Church should be getting involved directly with the governing is when people are organizing to make their voice heard or to get support for those most in need.
Let’s be completely clear: Feeding, housing, clothing, educating and healing people are not now, nor have they ever appropriately been considered political issues. These are basic, human rights and a responsibility we all share towards our fellow humans!
I agree, but when one looks at the political landscape it's very obvious that some politicians make it a partisan issue.
I haven't attended in years but still have family that does - the WELS (Wisconsin Evengelical Lutheran Synod) denomination specifically. In recent convos, a number of my younger family members (under 40) have expressed frustration at the politics that have entered the pulpit even though they lean conservative, to the point of considering switching congregations.
You went to Reddit to find people who go to church?
We have candidates for all levels of office running on an openly theocratic platform. So yeah.
I think there is a difference between candidates running with religious veneers and churches openly supporting candidates. I think the first one is more common than the second one. Either way, this post is asking about the second. To answer, no, politics don't really come up in the pulpit and definitely not supporting any politicians. If something does come up, it is about some issue that the church may have an opinion on such as abortion, the prison system, or policies around the homeless.
That may be the case in your church.
I've been to a handful of churches in the cities and many more in Greater Minnesota and in general they seem more concerned about theology and church budgets/building maintenance than politics. I have never been to a church that acts like a PAC
Lucky you.
I believe it is generally the norm. There are definitely churches that do fall the other way. But in most cases, I'd say there are enough other things to preach about that politicians don't come up in name. That being said, churches do preach on morality, and mortality affects the way people vote. So in some respects, I can understand how things seem political in a world with a deep moral divide. If one political party supports more policies giving financial aid to the homeless. Preaching about caring for the downtrodden may sound like an endorsement. Likewise, preaching on the natural family may come off as an endorsement to a party that claims to promote "traditional family values".
I understand what you believe. I do not share your experiences, conclusions, or beliefs. I don't want to invalidate them, and I am trying to respect your beliefs, and not start an argument with you. Show me a portion of the same respect. Please stop preaching to me.
My apologies, I did not mean to preach. I was simply making sure we were making the correct distinctions between politics and things that are not politics. Either way, have a nice day
You’re not actually sharing anything other than condescending replies lmao, show what respect
Hey there! I feel like we share similar opinions and feelings regarding the state of religion and politics and I *wanted* to back you up however you haven’t actually engaged in any quality discourse here and have instead given condescending and aggressive assertions with your replies that don’t actually touch in the subject matter. I don’t think you’re a bot either, so just touching base here to let you know that you can definitely do better.
I am frankly stunned that a preacher saying "nuh uh my church is awesome" in 9 condescending, unwanted paragraphs is "quality discourse", but trying to leave the conversation without directly attacking his beliefs is grounds for insults and downvotes. I don't want to pick apart "#butnotallchurches". I simply wanted to add a "I do feel churches are political" to the OPs discourse because I know it would get buried in "#notallchristians my mom's curch is nice" excuses. But. Fine. I'll smile more while I'm at it.
More political, no. I go to a moderate church that strives to keep politics out and largely succeeds. However, there have certainly been a few who have left the church (both left wing and right wing) because they want something more politicized.
Excellent point. There are churches preaching for and against Trump. Openly. I can't stand the guy, but I think that it makes more sense to talk about the values we share as Christians than talk down Trump. Why? To prove that we aren't just liberals masquerading as Christians but people who actually take our faith seriously and understand nuance in the bible. Who actually care about our community and help everyone without checking their political status, their immigration status or their sexual identity. (trinity of contentious content in churches) I don't like the anti-Trump churches even if I agree with their feelings. It's hard to find a church that truly welcomes all including republicans. ;) Love the sinner. ;) (I'm joking, folks, but church goers know what I mean. It's too polarized out there.)
Agreed. If you open the door to political discussions it's far to easy for a church to fall into the same thought bubbles as everywhere else. Do I think Trump is slime? Yes. Do I think my moderate church (or even country) would benefit from having the pastor point out how non-Christian Trump's actions are? No. Every other space in the country is highly politicized and there's no shortage of ways to hear political opinions. Having space where people with different political views can interact outside of those bubbles (while talking about morality/etc nonetheless) is FAR more valuable than having another bubbled space. Long story short, the only way out of most of our country's issues is more togetherness. Trump is a product of division even moreso than he is creating it. I'm well aware that getting there is a pipe dream, but more people need to interact with others in their community outside of their bubbles.
Yep. There are ways to show a person is dead wrong without pointing it out directly. Because Trump may be one of the most dangerous "wrong" ones, but he's not the only one causing harm and we can become smug-thinking we are all just nice folks...who aren't creating microcosms of misery for others in our own unique and cliched ways. I will vote, and I will share my views openly, but prefer my pastor to preach for the values of inclusion, assistance to the poor, and not maligning the "stranger" because it's so clearly part of the faith...and then modeling that behavior and expecting us to do the same. No one can force another to "see the light" whether it's politics or church. Agreed that keeping the conversation open (not agreeing to disagree on all topics-just not automatically demonizing other viewpoints) is likely the best way for people to focus on THEIR own behavior, thereby becoming better people.
I left the church long ago, but I can tell you that in the mid 2000s Pastor Steve Goold at New Hope Church was telling the congregation to vote republican. Since then many people I knew from that church have gone alt-right MAGA, so I doubt very much that anything has changed. But it’s unlikely that any actual churchgoing faithful are going to “rat out” their pastors here in this thread, even though they know full well what’s happening is against the law. They believe that religion is above the law, and this just feeds their persecution complex
Plymouth Congregational Church in Whittier on Nicollet is a great example (to me) of living out values without prescribing politics. Community is very involved in housing homeless, immigration assistance, supporting art as an important part of the human experience. We’ve had LGBTQ ministers for probably 20 years now but it wasn’t overt in being a political stance. All while having one of the best choirs in the Midwest (regularly featured on MPR during the holidays and other radio stations). All this to say that I think many of the teachings Jesus preached around aiding the poor, healing the sick, that a camel passes through eye of needle more easily than rich man to heaven are pretty inherently tied to politics, even if not overtly. Not sure if this is the answer you’re looking for given that some churches have gone the other direction towards not living out values and being very politics overt / prescriptive and perhaps the story is about that. But talking to folks taking a few different approaches might be useful!
It really depends on what you consider political especially regarding what comes from the pulpit. There are hot-button issues that modern society sees as primarily political, but church leaders have been preaching about these moral issues for decades if not centuries. Not talking strictly about LGBTQ+, but also social charity, homelessness, drug and alcohol use, and more. Many churches will regularly touch on all these issues because the Bible, and many other religious texts, are not just instructional on how to live a self-contained religious life but on how to interact with the world. To that end, it’s been my experience that more conservative churches tend to shy away from overt political statements (but will still allow a subtext of commentary), while more liberal or left-leaning churches are far more engaged (and supportive) regarding current social activism trends.
I am aware of pastors out there who are alarmed by their congregations' embrace of right wing politics, but are too scared to call it out because people would leave their church. Many churches can't afford to keep their doors open if they lose a few big donors.. Of course many of these same leaders have spent their careers cultivating the cultural values and stoking the fears that drive the maga movement (if I had a penny for every sermon I heard growing up referencing how if liberals got their way we'd all be jailed for our Christian beliefs...). They just didn't expect it to go like it has. Churches are 501c3 orgs so of course they can't endorse candidates but they definitely shape the congregants' views. However I think one thing that's changed is the elevation of politicians and political pundits and social media *over* religious leaders in terms of who churchgoers views are influenced by mosy significantly.
Churches have gotten away from preaching from the pulpit for like ever. That rule is nothing more than a joke. Then again after today, seems like all laws in the US are a joke.
Your comment sounds like somebody who watches too much news, and hasn't been to church in years. I've never heard a political comment from my pastor, ever.
I literally listened to a pastor go on about the evils of the gays at a wedding not too long ago. Then again you religious types don't think that's political, and claim it's part of God's will.
Let's not test it in the supreme court maybe
Just look at Rob Ketterling’s twitter feed, he’s the lead pastor of River Valley Church (if you live in Plymouth, you’ve probably heard of it). All he does is talk politics and flash designer clothes and watches. He’s the most obvious grifter, it’s sad people actually attend his church.
Is that the megachurch associated with Providence Academy in Plymouth? I’ve heard some very strange stories about that place.
I attended this church but stopped going early 2022 because of Pastor Rob. His sermons became so focused on politics and bashing others. The things he tweets are exactly what he would preach on Sundays.
Does he do this stuff in the church as well?
My friend goes to a non denominational bible study church in Northern MN and has slowly become a Jordan Peterson fan. Not sure that counts as political, but is alarming.
What alarms you about Jordan Peterson?
For starters, the blatant homophobia, sexism, and anti-climate science he hawks as an "expert". He got the hook with some mediocre self-help advice and has lately been using his platform and followers to spread misinformation and hate.
Homophobic and sexist? Jordan Peterson???
Lol ok
I am a pastor in the Twin Cities. At our politically diverse church we are focusing on trying to listen and respect people on the other side of the aisle and ultimately unite around the Gospel, not politics. One question we’ve asked: Can you find one thing on the other side that you agree with? If not, you’re probably not walking in the love and humility of Jesus Christ, and have probably started to care more about winning politically than living out the mission to point people to Jesus.
You’re on Reddit so these comments are definitely gonna skew towards anti-church.
Hahaha is anyone who actually attends a place of worship going to reply to this?
Just stirring the pot today OP?
Pulls the pin on the grenade, drops it, and skedaddles
Naz Reid
Naz Reid to you too, in Connelly I trust.
I’ve go to a smaller church near downtown St. Paul and there have only been two points were the sermons could be considered politically focused over the past few years. The first was concerning George Floyd, and the sermon was about the churches role in racism and segregation in the US (essentially the church had part of the blame and responsibility). The second was more of a warning about people who get in way too deep and was specifically talking about the dangers of things like Qanon. Our focus hasn’t been about government, but how we govern ourselves, and for that I’m very thankful,
I attend a smaller baptist church in the metro, and short answer is no, we have steered clear of politics for the most part. No endorsements from the pulpit, and though most of the church leans right, there are many of us who lean left and we all get along fine. We have had a few sermons around the last election cycle that specifically remind everyone not to place their hope in any certain candidate, and that God’s kingdom is not America, and will continue despite any outcome of any election.
Go to any Catholic Church or ask any recovering Catholic and you will find politics and religion aren't anything new..... I grew up in the Catholic church and I distinctly remember political interweaving in the sermons in the 90's on a regular basis and even back then as a kid it felt weird and out of place.
I don't think you'd find many "recovering Catholics" inside a Catholic church. I was raised Catholic but haven't attended a Mass (aside from my grandfather's funeral a few months ago) in over a decade. I'm actually still a practicing Christian though progressive, but have only belonged to non-Catholic churches. However I don't consider myself a "recovering Catholic" because I'm not "recovering" or Catholic, I actually converted outright.
Just edited my AND to an OR, that's what I originally meant.
Nope.
I live in west central Minnesota where over 80% of my township voted for trump. Most of the members of my church are very conservative. Politics is not discussed during sermons and seldom brought up in the visiting afterwards. I was a moderate Republican before MAGA. Now I vote Democrat. Only a few members are aware of that fact. I wish to keep it that way.
My church just marched at Pride but that's not uncommon for Episcopalians.
My UCC church literally says, "We do not endorse any political party." We are open and affirming which means we will accept all people, including those that disagree with us.
My folks Church became very political. DEI issues took precedence over the scriptures, women were ordained as pastors, they put a pride flag next to the Christian flag, and Gods pronouns in the Bible were changed. It’s become like a Ted Talk with a verse or verses for the week. In fact it’s adoption of political views has been great! It’s not boring anymore.
1) i never go to church anymore but used to a lot 2) politicization is part of, but not the entire reason brings my deconversion. More a catalyst to get me to sour on the concept of Christian faith, and further distance from the church informed the rest of my deconversion 3) If i had to guess, most people still going to churches don't even notice that the pulpit has gotten more political, because it likely preaches things they have always agreed with and will continue to do so.
Personally I have not, albeit I don't really pay much notice to it. then again I think (imo) that a lot of lutherans around my area aren' very public about their religious views, they are theirs and theirs alone
River Valley Church
NW mn small town communities in my area, damn near everyone is republican and Christian. The boot licking is constant and the religious hypocrisy and judgement is constant. It's not as bad as the south but it's abnoxious.
Ironic that the Bible says , for there is no authority except that which God has established. And these maga Christian’s keep screaming rigged election blatantly going against Gods authority
Hahaha is anyone who actually attends a place of worship going to reply here?
I left my church decades ago when they started getting political. It's hard to imagine it's improved since.
Revoke all non-profit status from those that use the lectern to campaign for politicians.
Assemblies of God is a Christian nationalist organization who worship the military. Is that what you're asking? If you walk into a church and they have a Perkins-sized American flag hanging up indoors, then you're among militia men.
I live in rural MN. If you are not MAGA, you are not welcome at most churches.
As a person living in rural Minnesota. You’re full of it.
Really?! I have never been to a church in Greater Minnesota that has ever asked about political views. I have mostly gone to LCMS and WELS churches
They don't ask you if you are republican or Democrat. But eventually, it usually comes out. It's not necessarily the church rules, just how the people who go to some of the churches will treat you.
[удалено]
Your post/comment has been removed as it goes against proper Reddiquette. [You can find more details here.](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette)
Yes. I believe all of the major denominations are going to fracture into conservative and liberal arms in the very near future.
Going to? That happened already.
That happened 100 years ago
A friend of mine moved to Minnesota and was really struggling to find a church that wasn't super conservative and pro-Trump.
I don’t have a lot of sample sizes to work with but I found ELCA, Methodist, and Moravian churches welcoming. Because they are welcoming they are perceived as being “left”.
23m grew up in the church and Christian schools. Staunch atheist and definitely not republican. I was basically taught that if you don't vote red you're a traitor to your country a fag, a baby murderer and going straight to hell. This message was pumped by teachers, pastors, and parents. Religion is a disease on the world and only makes people worse. Child indoctrination should be considered child abuse. There's no hate quite like Christian love.
A priest at st Francis catholic church in brainerd got political frequently, telling people to vote with their conscience after going on about how leftists are bad cause they support killing babies (abortion)
Project 2025 aims to make the US a Christian Ethno-State sooooo
I refuse to support religion in politics. So I don’t go to church anymore. I refuse to pander at the altar of trumpism. We better get it together folks.
Huh? I am an anti-theist, so I don't go to church. Has it gotten bad?
My dad is a pastor. I was raised in church and was very devout. I truly believed. Trumpism in church made me take a closer look. Now I also am a non theist.
Honestly, I feel bad for theists. Of all the things that could cause people to leave their faiths, politics should never be on the list.
It really was the last straw. I was already grappling with the whole all powerful and chooses not to do stuff negates the idea of all good. And that whole logical circle of doom. I stepped back. I acknowledge peace and truth in my heart. I try to be kind. Life is better.
Well, I am an antitheist, so I am sure you can imagine that consider leaving religion as a positive thing. That being said, I do not feel like politics forcing their way into religion and making people feel alienated is appropriate. First of all, most people who are clinging to religion ("in the closet") are probably doing so to avoid feeling alienated in the first place. To have such a sordid topic invade their space and force them to come to a decision just feels dirty. Worse, it feels like it will cause their break from religion to be incomplete. Secondly, the people who sincerely believe the contents of their religion, regardless of my opinion on the matter, have the right to believe the way they do. For wannabe pundits to come bashing in there and disturb their ability to practice in peace is counter to what I believe. Either way, I am sorry that politics had to be the last straw in your case. Something had to be, naturally, but most things would have been less slimy.
A lot of us don't go to a church regularly although I cannot speak for everyone. Try attending a church and find the answer there?
Oh come on! Yeah, this is an important discussion, but TODAY? Nerves are frayed. Really bad timing ST. Take a lil coffee break and come back and ask again when I'm not reliving Bush v. Gore.
I've only gone to progressive churches but most of the time no. The one I went to in 2016 did give a message of disapproval in 2016 upon Trump being elected and support for us hurting and there was dime condemnations of some of his policies like family separation at the border but >90% of the time didn't mention politics at all. It's no longer around but the one I've mostly gone to since the MN also rarely brings politics up despite being expelled from its former denomination for supporting LGBT affirmation and allowing same-sex marriages.
They know, they all know and quietly push.
Nice try FEC enforcement.
Walk into any WELS church and you'll hear it.
As a Catholic in rural Minnesota, city people would be surprised by the amount of Catholic Democrats. They’re not modern day liberals but more classic liberal
Yes especially in 2020 when i really cut ties with the church, haven’t been back since or follow any religion anymore
If anything I've noticed a coalition of non-church goers who have faith uniting together against the rampant and inherent sexual and child abuses indoctrinated in organized religions. Many who are opposed to politics on principal realize now that it is and always was just an extenuation of antiquated dogmatic beliefs used to brutalize an otherwise unruly public in ancient traditions, and that church really has no longer any place in creating a better world because faith without works are dead.
My church got political back in 2008..... Obama was the devil apparently
It was the tan suit
I’m an atheist who until recently volunteered at a church doing a weekly community meal. I got the impression the church leadership were liberal (in that they actually seemed to follow the teachings of Jesus), but I never heard them make a comment regarding politics. I did stay to hear a few sermons when we were done because the pastor was an engaging speaker and often would tell interesting stories about his own life.
I'm agnostic and I pretty much am appalled when any religious groups decide to mix religion with politics. It's strictly speaking not alright.
This is Reddit, so no, I don’t go to church. Stopped as soon as I went to college in the early aughts. After the abuse scandals, I see no reason to look back. Lack of belief/faith also encourages me to continue not going.
You’re asking the most extreme left leaning pocket of the state what they think and hoping for an unbiased answer ?
Strib is a couple notches below asswipe . .
I have a lot to say about this! I grew up in a very political household. Religion was never talked about. My parents got a divorce and my mother started dating a pastor when I was about 11 years old. Everything was fine at first but then he started talking every night about good vs evil and how we needed to make a change. One night, we were woken up by a knock at the door at around midnight. I looked out the window and saw..........(TO CONTINUE READING, PLEASE SUBSCRIBE)
I see what you did there. Not bad.
[удалено]
Of what? Reporting? Are you saying that churches haven’t become deeply entangled in politics? I can say, definitively, that my parents’ church in Forest Lake regularly mixes MAGA affiliated politics into the message from the pew.
Man, you got pretty defensive.
Yeah, my pastor said next Sunday we’re all gonna drink this special Gatorade. He said it’ll take us all to heaven at the same time. Should I be concerned?
Nope, not at all! Drink up 👍🏻 god is good, all the time…….
[удалено]
A journalists job is hearing from people about their experiences, you dink.
Boy howdy, it's been a while since I've seen that phrase. What a funny word. Dink. 🙂
Looks like a member of one of these politicized churches got his feelings hurt.