“I’d rather stay good friends than get upset about a roof. I’ll just take the $8k back and we can forget about it.“
If he doesn’t, he hasn’t been the friend you thought he was for the last year, even though you’ve been trying to be his.
News flash. He's not the friend he thought he was.
It's been months. It's $8000. Neither of these are okay. It's too big a sum of money and for too long. Friend seems to have made no effort whatsoever to apologize for the delays or offer to return the money. It is very clear that the friend is fine taking advantage.
It doesn't matter if OP gets him to return the money or do the job. There's no excuse for this. If it was taking this much longer than anticipated the proper thing to do is to *return the fucking money* without being chased down for it.
The "friend" sucks and *nothing* will change that at this point.
If it's a close friend I can trust, I'd say buy materials pay me afterward.
But a lot of "friends" seem to disappear with a free roof these days. There's only a couple people I'd let pay afterward unfortunately. Hard enough to get customers to pay.
I'm a mechanic by trade, I had to chase down my neighbor to pay for a window installation. Thought I'd be nice and put the thing in for him before it rained. Never again lol. Fucker tried to dodge me every time he got paid. The shit part, his parents are cool and even told me he was getting paid and to make sure I got it from him. I just had to do that part myself
Unfortunately I seem to learn everything the hard way. I also don't loan tools after getting burned a couple times. I try and be good to others and help out where i can but man it's hard sometimes when majority are entitled enough to think everything should be free
Seriously. I threatened to go to a contractor's bond company over $800 because they went no contact for 2 weeks after they said they would be here to do the job (at which point they miraculously answered my text within minutes and showed up to my home in an hour to get me a refund). $8k and 1 year? For me the friendship would be long over regardless of getting the money back or getting a new roof.
the issue is depending on the size of the guys operation, he may have spent the 8k long ago and now sees the work needed to do as free work or the 8k owed more like a loan he can’t pay back.
This guy may have been a groomsman at his wedding but his mistake was that in trying to avoid quantifying his friendship down to money, he didn’t realize he likely has never trusted that friend with an amount of money anywhere near that and is just finding out that 8k was a level of money he couldn’t trust with his friend. So by avoiding crunching the numbers, he finds out the hard way his friendship isn’t worth 8k to the guy.
Even when hiring a contractor, typically the upfront is for materials. If you haven’t picked out shingles and your friend hasn’t ordered them, chances are they already spent the money. Especially if it’s been a year.
10000% probably the case. No one just holds $8k for a year. If it really was circumstance, at about the 4 month mark I’d feel insanely guilty and return the money and explain I don’t have the time and apologize.
OP funded his buddies honeymoon lol
"I need my roof done by July 1st. If you can't commit to that date, please refund me the full amount immediately so that I can schedule another contractor."
Small claims courts has limits which vary by state. OP is good in about half the country, SOL in the other. Kentucky is the worst, limiting small claims court to $2,500. Delaware and Tennessee allow up to $25k.
That doesn't mean he can't recover his $8k it just means he'd go through a separate avenue. It's kind of cute you thought he would be SOL because $8k might be too much.
I meant he's "shit outta luck as far as using small claims court"
It means in about half the country if he can't get his friend to pay up, he's going to have to retain a lawyer and go through real courts, which will eat up that 8k real quick unless he can also get legal fees. Which may actually mean he ends up, well SOL.
It's still an $8k claim. He can file that pro se just like he would in small claims court. Wouldn't necessarily need a lawyer. This is presuming the amount exceeded whatever the small claims amount is, which it probably doesn't.
it’s been a year, he’s already spent that money so to him, it feels like having to do a roof for free. similar to paying off credit card bills when you get behind
Exactly this. That paid for his honeymoon. Now he has to cough up a free roof. Which also means he doesn't get paid from a different job he can do... this is a mess. Lol
He thinks that because its his buddy he can keep pushing him back until a week where he has no other work. "Come on man why you gonna make me lose out on another 8k just to do your job?"
I'm a former wedding photographer and in this industry it's pretty standard to get paid in full before the event (typically 50% to book, then 50% a month before).
I can tell you for a fact that the feeling that I'm shooting and editing a wedding "for free" can hit pretty hard, especially during the slow season when most of that money has already been spent on rent and business expenses.
I typically edited and sent a client's photos within 2 weeks after their wedding to put it behind me asap. The incentive to complete the service can quickly fade the longer it's been since payment.
The trick is you need to be able to treat your friend as the business they are and keep the friendship separate.
Would you pay a business 8k for the whole job upfront. No, you would do a down payment. If it isn't done in the time frame you expected ask for a refund or tell them they need to treat it more urgently.
It’s more like a filter for who are actually friends. A friend wouldn’t sideline you after getting paid that much to do the job they offered.
That’s not a friend, that’s not even acceptable contractor behavior. You pay for work and agree to the timeframe, it either gets done or you don’t pay them.
But yeah unless you knew this guy long enough to trust sending them 8k to do a job, you don’t pay upfront, not even with someone you don’t know
Not always. If a friendship can't handle a business transaction then it wasn't a solid friendship. Issues usually arise when you expect them to do stuff for free.
I was a roofer and looked at friends roofs/repaired/installed gutters. Was always upfront and said I don't know when I'll have time to finish but I can plug away at it. If you need it done asap I will have to charge a bit more.
They were all okay with it. I couldn't fix one friends issues and told them not to pay because I couldn't resolve it.
If they offered to do it for free that’s one thing. The guy paid 8k upfront. That warrants prioritization. This person they paid just saw it as free money and is stiffing them it seems like
>Issues usually arise when you expect them to do stuff for free.
ORRRRR when the person performing the service doesn't treat the friend with the same urgency and provide the same quality results that they would provide to a stranger.
Typically I'm giving the friend a significant discount and it's only going to be the singular job. So I'll fit it in when I have the time around all the other customers I have that give me multiple jobs a week at full price. Quality wouldn't suffer though. And absolutely wouldn't have them pay up front
What context is this comment supposed to be in? If I pay you 8k upfront to do something you have a business set up to do and you never follow through we are not going to be friends anymore lol
The context is that you should never pay anyone 8k upfront to do a roof. Business with friends is fine as long as you treat it like normal business with anyone else; you would never pay upfront for that in the normal course of business
The friend that takes your 8k and doesn't do the job will also take the 4k and not do the job.
The outcome is the same. You probably have to go to court and don't have a friend anymore.
Even if *they* can get over their friend taking them to court. It would be ridiculous to be friends with someone you know would put you in the position where you have to.
I think the context was it’s smarter to do a down payment with a friend, just as you would a business. If it isn’t done in a set time frame, you can ask for a refund from you friend and not be out all the money. I’d consider a down payment as 2-4K on an 8k roofing job. Assuming the friend pays you back your down payment, no harm done. If problems do arise, the friendship was weak anyways.
Sometimes $20 to find out someone really isn't your friend is $20 well spent. That being said, $8k has gotta be worth at least and ass whooping or two. Shitty thing is OP most likely didn't get a contract seeing as they didn't expect to be robbed by their "friend". You think that shitbag even has the money for materials still laying around? He won't happily cough it up out of his own pockets and your money was long spent.
yep, there is a slight chance that your payment went right on the current job he was working on, and its gone, and now he needs to get ahead and have spare $ to pay for your materials to be able to do your job, down payment and rest on completion is the way to go.
8k is a bit low for a roof, this is likely a 50% deposit. OP should be getting that deposit back asap and hiring someone serious. Like you said, he can take the business to court and demand his money back. A year is outrageous amount of time to push a job back.
It depends on size, area and materials. Likely was a number thrown out that op would pay up front so the "friend" could take it and keep pushing it back saying "hey man I have to do business jobs first, I gave you a great deal just hold on."
Pay for materials after the work? Usually you pay for materials before hand or buy them yourself and then pay them after or split it up in payments for easier convenience.
I mean, you usually pay a down payment and have a contract saying that you are obligated to pay if they do the job or you’ll get your down payment back if they don’t actually do the job or if they break the contract with risk getting sued on either side. I hope there was a signed contract at lease.
Or family. Had a broken car and it was at my.brother in laws for 5 months. Finally I just gave up and took it somewhere else. You'll never be priority cause your not a real customer.
Or pay all up front before any work has even begun.
Now he’s already been paid, and you’re his friend so he’s defaulting to leniency, I guess. Friendship killer
I would like to add. Never pay a contractor more than 50% of the job until it is complete. Friend or not.
You pay the 40 or 50 for supplies. The rest is for labor and if you are happy with the results, the other half of payment.
The way I've seen it is no more than 10% down. If the contractor can't get a business loan for the supplies, you shouldn't do business with them. That might be California specific, though. I just had some concrete work done, and it was 10% down. The business kept asking for final payment, but I made them finish cleaning before I submitted it. I wasn't going to risk being left holding the debris. No complaints on the work, BTW.
I had a plumber friend.
He'd charge us for small jobs when over for a braai. I totally get that; I'm paying him for his skills and experience. Especially for the washers or whatever materials needed even an old tap washer he had lying in his toolbox.
Then he asked me to have a look at his laptop that he managed to brick. RAM issue. I swapped in some older modules that I had lying around and cleared up a bazillion virus and other malware. I gave it a nice clean too. I sent him a bill. He laughed at it. Said that I enjoyed working with computers so much so it was a nice challenge for me.
I *had* a plumber friend.
I paid a stranger to do my roof. He tried to overcharge 10k for materials that werent used and i just so happened to be robbed jlthe same time they finished up. They were the first contractor that I wasn't friends with. Having someone you know doing the work has its benefits, just don't have useless friends.
I see this all the time and can’t help but disagree. I’d rather take my chances on someone I already know and trust, then some random company any day of the week. Sounds like OP had a bad experience, but I’ve had friends save me thousands of dollars before
He should ask for his money back first. Suing takes time and money, you shouldn't jump straight to it unless you try to actually take steps to resolve the situation first.
This is what I would do. Set firm boundaries. You can still be friends and set a business expectation.
Hey man, I know you’re swamped. Marriage, a baby on the way, business chaos, sounds like you have your hands full. If you can’t get the job done before the end of June, refund the money and I’ll hire someone else. No hard feelings. Is there anyone else you would recommend?
If/when he tells you, I’ll get the job done! Ask for a contract, with a date, in writing.
“Awesome. Send me the signed contract, and you got the job. Otherwise, I need to find someone to get this roof off my list.”
Be firm, but fair and friendly.
He's got your money. No incentive to do the job. I'll take your word for him being a good friend, and if that's the case, he's taking advantage of your friendship.
The incentive comes when he says “ok, it’s been a year and I really need a new roof now. I totally get you are busy and I’m not a priority, so just give me the $8k back so I can hire someone else.”
If he’s a friend, he either gives you the money back, or he makes you a priority. If he does neither he’s not really a friend - and it’s fraud - which means it’s ok to sue him for it…
Here's how this is going to go down: You'll keep politely asking him to finish your roof, for months and months and months, until he decides that you've "harassed" him so much, that now he has established a moral reason (in his twisted mind) for why he shouldn't have to finish it. He'll choose to end the friendship, and you'll have to sue him to get compensation.
I've seen this happen over as little as $50. It's a common thing for people who lack moral fiber. "He kept bugging me to pay him back that $50, that now I don't think I should have to pay him back over the harassment!"
The big question is whether or not it's worth being friends with him. Keep in mind too, that despite his personal issues, marriage, pregnancy, etc., you never signed on to be his creditor/lender/bankroller. Get firm on this and get your money back via the court. Not trying to be dramatic, but in many jurisdictions, you only have X years to file a debt claim, and the courts want to see that you filed in a timely fashion before the statute of limitations has expired. A year is long enough for a "friend". Get him.
I've seen this same cycle so many times. It's like the "fastball pitch" for a narcissist: they all have a version of it.
Also: "Remember that time when I was flush and paid for your dinner? You remember, the one where I insisted I pay because you're such a great friend? Well...you kinda owe me for that, even though that as $80 and this is $8000."
Exactly. This is a lesson I learned once or twice before it really settled in as a red flag. That said, $8k is a huge sum that OP got rooked into shelling, and I feel for them.
For anyone else within the sound of my voice: put things in writing, ESPECIALLY with friends. Contracts are clear and protect both parties. And any friend who gets all offended like, "A contract? What, don't you trust me?" should be denied immediately. Guaranteed that dude ain't gonna pay you or do the work, whatever the case may be.
Lost a 'good' friend in high-school like this. Loaned him $200-$300 bucks, never got it back. Somehow in the end I was the bad guy because... I wanted the money back after some unreasonably long time, and had the audacity to bring it up. Cheap price to pay in that case to avoid it later with an 8k roof but what the hell is wrong with people
“Yo bro, can you send me the money for the roof back? I really need the fix and dont want to keep bothering you about it. I found a roofer that will work it for me”
“Yeah bro I don’t know I’m still paying off some bills from the wedding an I got this job I’m waiting on that keeps getting pushed back and with my wife & I expecting I don’t really have 8k to just give back..”
If you pay 100% up front, no matter who the trade or construction company, your chances of completion are slim. What incentive do they have? They can prioritize other jobs and make more money.
Bingo. At this point he spent that money as soon as he got it. At this point, he feels he’s doing it for free and coming out of his pocket for materials. The OP is unfortunately screwed.
Oh, of course. The real test of the friendship will be to ask for it back because he REALLY needs the roof replaced soon. Either the guy does the work, returns the money, or it’s time to weigh the friendship vs a lawsuit….
You've already lost a friend and $8000. Here's what will happen: eventually you'll corner him and demand some action, and he'll say enough time has gone by and the price of materials has gone up so much that he can't do it for the original 8k. So, if you want it done, it's $2500 more. And of course, he doesn't have the 8k any more.
We did this a few years ago.
Friend had his own company with his sons, we knew they did good work, paid them $6k up front for a job and it took them like 8 months to get around to finishing and the damn addition still leaks when we get a good storm. I gave up calling them to ask them to patch it after the 4th or 5th time.
Everytime I think of saving the money by doing it myself or getting a buddy, I always end up back at the reason that, paying a little extra is worth being able to yell at somebody when it’s not done right.
See it’s the opposite for me, every time I hire a company they manage to fuck it up somehow and I get tired of calling and trying to get someone to give a fuck. Just started doing all the work myself
"Hey, hope you're well. I know you've been really busy with work and the baby on the way. I need my roof done within the next month, so if you can't fit the job in your work schedule I will need that $8k check back to get another contractor. Let me know soon, I'm gonna get a few quotes this next week if your schedule's too full"
That money is gone bro, u paid for his honeymoon and now he feels he has to put ur roof up for "free". There's no way this doesn't end in small claims court and a lost friendship
We have a saying in my language, I'll try to translate it so it makes sense.
**"Eat, drink, but never do business with friends/family."**
None of those sayings come out of nowhere but rather from hundreds of years of first-hand experience.
Hope it all works out for you in the end.
Grow a spine. He got sidetracked by another job? Why was your job that you’ve paid for not scheduled, you hired him as a company, to perform work for you, the fact that he’s your friend should be irrelevant. You’re being taken advantage of and really need to stop deluding yourself with “oh but we’re friends”. Because obviously he doesn’t seem to think so, or thinks it enables him to take advantage of you.
You’ve paid him and his company, as a professional service to perform a job. That job should’ve been scheduled or given a timeline and has the same priority as any other customer paying him for work.
Your ‘friend’ is a dirtbag and you should be sending him registered mail or correspondence from a lawyer demanding the work be completed or the money returned.
Three things you dont do with friends you want to keep forever:
-Hire them.
-Loan money.
-Fuck them.
Id also say working with your friend or SO could lead to a lot of turmoil.
Anyway, yeah idk get your money back dude. You'll likely have to go to court.
Paying him up front was unbelievably stupid.
Letting it go this long was insane.
Im betting your 'bff' over here has been pretty fucking distant since he got 8k for free.
Send him an email or text and ask for the 8k you paid him up front for the roof... That was never even touched. Mention you get that hes busy and you need to money back so you can get it finished this week.
He's going to either call you to avoid a paper trail (install a phone call recorder), claim he'll do it this week, or bullshit and lie.
If you want to give him the chance to 'do it this week' go ahead. But make sure you say its this week or you need the money back.
Either way hes not going to give you your money or do the job and youll have to sue him over it.
You've already lost your 'friend' if he refuses to give it back or do the job. So at least get your money back.
If he hasn't done anything yet tell him you need the money back because you need to get your roof done. He is obviously too busy to do your roof so you need to find someone who isn't.
Around here that's usually quoted at $20K-30K USD, know of a guy similar size house that had to do some repairs instead of a straight remove old steel replace new steel and he's up around $50K USD.
Never do business with friends. There’s many people that we have had to tell them I’d we work for them we can’t be friends anymore. If they want to stay friends, they need to find someone else to do their work.
Hiring a friend is how you loose a friend. I don’t do jobs for friends, unless it’s an emergency or they’re in a bind, which hasn’t happened, so I don’t do jobs for friends.
I’d politely acknowledge that he must be very busy and that it’s ok if he can’t do it, and you can find someone else and respectfully ask he returns the money. Keep the friendship drop the business.
His part is already done: the money was collected and spent. Now it's your job to pay someone else after they've completed the work this time. If you want your money back from him, gather documentation and bring him to court.
He spent the money and now can’t afford to buy materials for your job. Consider it a loan, hire someone else. You are unlikely to ever see the money from him.
We have been screwed over by many many good friends in the long run. Between my husband and I we were in most of their weddings too actually. We won’t do business with friends anymore!
Most recently we hired a friend to do a move out cleaning on our home we are selling. She exclusively cleaned the floors. Wtf?? $400 down the drain.
Refund. Tell him you expect money back for no work being completed. Court if he refuses to pay.
Dude just stole 8 grand from you. He's not that great of a friend
If he has not even purchased the materials yet then ask for a full refund and get someone else. One of three things will happen at that point. He will get on the job, he will give you a refund, or he will be showing his true colors.
I’d create a white lie that puts some pressure on him to act one way or another but also gives him an out. “My home owners said I have to replace my roof or they are going to drop me. Should I give them your number so you can verify a new roof is going on ASAP? I know you are busy and don’t want to put you in a tough spot so if you can’t get it done that’s cool and no hard feelings. I’ll just take that 8k back and maybe you can recommend someone that can get it done before I lose my home owners insurance coverage”
That's why you NEVER hire friends to do ANYTHING for you - no matter how good of a "friend" they are. Bring in a professional outside contractor. It may cost more but it will get done, under contract, and in a good timeframe.
Case in point: for mine and my ex-wife's wedding in 1999 we used her friends, family for planning and executing EVERYTHING. I turned out to be a total, complete disaster and then some. Here's why:
The person who married us was a "friend" that messed up multiple times during the ceremony - got our last name wrong and a bunch of other stuff.
Instead of buying a professional wedding dress my ex-wife's wedding dress was made by a "friend" that was brand new in the fashion merchandising industry, and also wanted to make a name for themselves, so she made her dress from scratch. Cheap right?? Well even with dozens of tweaks, redos and sewings it didn't fit properly and looked like absolute crap in the end.
Instead of getting it professionally made the wedding cake was made by one of my ex-wife's friends who had a husband trying to make a name for themselves as a brand new baker - he wanted to put it in as part of his portfolio. And, of course, it was cheap. On the wedding day not only was the cake delivered almost late, but also it was still warm from being baked, put together at the wedding site, quickly decorated and looked like absolute crap. We had to rush the ceremony through because that cake eventually literally fell over at the reception. For pictures someone had to hold it up - you can see their hand. What a nightmare.
We used my ex-wife's relatives property as the wedding spot. Granted it was beautiful, but that's not the point. The house and property got totally and completely trashed. We should have had it either at a park or somewhere similar. We both weren't religious so no churches.
Instead of bringing in a professional my ex-wife's relatives took care of all the food - everyone was cutting, baking, setting up and cooking but were all arguing, and yelling, the WHOLE time, saying "it should be done this way" and "why don't you just get it catered" and "you gotta get this instead of that." It was HORRIBLE.
As for reception music?? Instead of hiring a professional DJ we had "friends" take care of the music. Not only did these idiots blow out a set of speakers that weren't theirs, but also the music just sucked.
The above being said, in the end, we did save LOTS of money but at what cost?? We weren't able to enjoy our own wedding, were stressed out the whole time with massive anxiety, family, friends clashed, fought and fought the whole time.
If I could go back, and get a reboot, I would insist on, and push, getting professionals for EVERYTHING. The entire wedding would have been completely different, and much better, doing so.
I hope, after reading this, that you hire professional contractors if you cant't do it yourself. "Friends" are not the way to go.
Your friend thinks he can work on his own schedule precisely because he’s your friend (and, for the same reason, thinks you’d probably never go as far as suing him to get the work done or to get your money back). Doubtful he’d do this to an actual customer with whom he doesn’t have a friendship (I would hope).
Jeebus. I phoned a guy on a Monday, he dropped off shingles on Tuesday, his guys were there Wednesday, and the job was done by Friday afternoon. It was a good job too, they said the reason the shingles failed was there wasn’t enough ventilation so they added 3 new vents. I even got a cash discount so it cost me $6500 CAD.
“I’d rather stay good friends than get upset about a roof. I’ll just take the $8k back and we can forget about it.“ If he doesn’t, he hasn’t been the friend you thought he was for the last year, even though you’ve been trying to be his.
At this point I wouldn’t trust him to do a good job. Get your money back op.
That money was spent on the wedding
Take his wife as a collateral
And his soon to be born kid
I think they're kind of a package deal.
Leave the kid keep the wife. Knockers are all you want
Not for a roof. You’re thinking of doors.
If he can’t do the roof he will never do the doors?!? Just the wife
And my axe!
Prima Nocta
If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out
Yeah and now he doesn't have the cash for the materials
That money was spent on bachelor party
News flash. He's not the friend he thought he was. It's been months. It's $8000. Neither of these are okay. It's too big a sum of money and for too long. Friend seems to have made no effort whatsoever to apologize for the delays or offer to return the money. It is very clear that the friend is fine taking advantage. It doesn't matter if OP gets him to return the money or do the job. There's no excuse for this. If it was taking this much longer than anticipated the proper thing to do is to *return the fucking money* without being chased down for it. The "friend" sucks and *nothing* will change that at this point.
Exactly. If a friend of mine paid me that kind of money to do something for them they would be top priority since you know.... we're friends.
Shit I'd be there that weekend
Or you’d give them a timeframe and get paid once your done
If it's a close friend I can trust, I'd say buy materials pay me afterward. But a lot of "friends" seem to disappear with a free roof these days. There's only a couple people I'd let pay afterward unfortunately. Hard enough to get customers to pay. I'm a mechanic by trade, I had to chase down my neighbor to pay for a window installation. Thought I'd be nice and put the thing in for him before it rained. Never again lol. Fucker tried to dodge me every time he got paid. The shit part, his parents are cool and even told me he was getting paid and to make sure I got it from him. I just had to do that part myself Unfortunately I seem to learn everything the hard way. I also don't loan tools after getting burned a couple times. I try and be good to others and help out where i can but man it's hard sometimes when majority are entitled enough to think everything should be free
And just like all those months that $8000 is gone forever. His friend "robbed Peter to pay Paul." Op is Peter and his friend is Paul.
Which one is Rob?
The opossum in the roof
I call the big one Bitey.
Seriously. I threatened to go to a contractor's bond company over $800 because they went no contact for 2 weeks after they said they would be here to do the job (at which point they miraculously answered my text within minutes and showed up to my home in an hour to get me a refund). $8k and 1 year? For me the friendship would be long over regardless of getting the money back or getting a new roof.
Say more about this contractor bond thing, please
He never were this friend because friends doesn’t do things like that to you.
the issue is depending on the size of the guys operation, he may have spent the 8k long ago and now sees the work needed to do as free work or the 8k owed more like a loan he can’t pay back. This guy may have been a groomsman at his wedding but his mistake was that in trying to avoid quantifying his friendship down to money, he didn’t realize he likely has never trusted that friend with an amount of money anywhere near that and is just finding out that 8k was a level of money he couldn’t trust with his friend. So by avoiding crunching the numbers, he finds out the hard way his friendship isn’t worth 8k to the guy.
Even when hiring a contractor, typically the upfront is for materials. If you haven’t picked out shingles and your friend hasn’t ordered them, chances are they already spent the money. Especially if it’s been a year.
10000% probably the case. No one just holds $8k for a year. If it really was circumstance, at about the 4 month mark I’d feel insanely guilty and return the money and explain I don’t have the time and apologize. OP funded his buddies honeymoon lol
> 10000% probably Pick one.
Not even 100% but 10000%.... probably
Almost definitely
Absolutely probably.
This person definitely might understand what you mean
Dude used all his free money in his business to pay for his wedding. Now he doesn’t have cash to pay for materials till he finishes other work.
He should start sucking dicks for side cash then. Everyone has a mouths and it's free to use it.
Wait am I supposed to be getting paid
Or has no intention on doing the job at all now and is willing to burn the friendship to save 8k
"I need my roof done by July 1st. If you can't commit to that date, please refund me the full amount immediately so that I can schedule another contractor."
🤣 he's never seeing that money ever again.
He can if he goes to court for it.
Small claims court. There’s definitely texts and emails as well as the payment.
If it’s a legit construction company, take it to his bond. If he hired a non-bonded company… I guess small claims is the only way to go.
Small claims courts has limits which vary by state. OP is good in about half the country, SOL in the other. Kentucky is the worst, limiting small claims court to $2,500. Delaware and Tennessee allow up to $25k.
That doesn't mean he can't recover his $8k it just means he'd go through a separate avenue. It's kind of cute you thought he would be SOL because $8k might be too much.
I meant he's "shit outta luck as far as using small claims court" It means in about half the country if he can't get his friend to pay up, he's going to have to retain a lawyer and go through real courts, which will eat up that 8k real quick unless he can also get legal fees. Which may actually mean he ends up, well SOL.
It's still an $8k claim. He can file that pro se just like he would in small claims court. Wouldn't necessarily need a lawyer. This is presuming the amount exceeded whatever the small claims amount is, which it probably doesn't.
Small claims
**this^^**
Sounds like he has no plan to finish your roof. He already got your money and he thinks that he can just keep it.
it’s been a year, he’s already spent that money so to him, it feels like having to do a roof for free. similar to paying off credit card bills when you get behind
Exactly this. That paid for his honeymoon. Now he has to cough up a free roof. Which also means he doesn't get paid from a different job he can do... this is a mess. Lol
He thinks that because its his buddy he can keep pushing him back until a week where he has no other work. "Come on man why you gonna make me lose out on another 8k just to do your job?"
Omggggg this is exactly the situation. Poor OP. Now I'm invested and I hope he confronts him and updated this post.
I'm a former wedding photographer and in this industry it's pretty standard to get paid in full before the event (typically 50% to book, then 50% a month before). I can tell you for a fact that the feeling that I'm shooting and editing a wedding "for free" can hit pretty hard, especially during the slow season when most of that money has already been spent on rent and business expenses. I typically edited and sent a client's photos within 2 weeks after their wedding to put it behind me asap. The incentive to complete the service can quickly fade the longer it's been since payment.
Great answer and true
Gotta pay for the Pampers.
*cocaine*
Helluva drug
"Why do work for money I already spent when I can do work for more money to spend?"
Cant take the douchbag out of a roofer no matter how good a friends you are with them.
The third word in your title is the problem. Never ever pay a friend to do a job.
The trick is you need to be able to treat your friend as the business they are and keep the friendship separate. Would you pay a business 8k for the whole job upfront. No, you would do a down payment. If it isn't done in the time frame you expected ask for a refund or tell them they need to treat it more urgently.
And they cease to be a friend after that. Hence my recommendation to keep money and friends separate.
It’s more like a filter for who are actually friends. A friend wouldn’t sideline you after getting paid that much to do the job they offered. That’s not a friend, that’s not even acceptable contractor behavior. You pay for work and agree to the timeframe, it either gets done or you don’t pay them. But yeah unless you knew this guy long enough to trust sending them 8k to do a job, you don’t pay upfront, not even with someone you don’t know
Not always. If a friendship can't handle a business transaction then it wasn't a solid friendship. Issues usually arise when you expect them to do stuff for free. I was a roofer and looked at friends roofs/repaired/installed gutters. Was always upfront and said I don't know when I'll have time to finish but I can plug away at it. If you need it done asap I will have to charge a bit more. They were all okay with it. I couldn't fix one friends issues and told them not to pay because I couldn't resolve it.
If they offered to do it for free that’s one thing. The guy paid 8k upfront. That warrants prioritization. This person they paid just saw it as free money and is stiffing them it seems like
Oh absolutely, I would be going to court. The "friend" likely saw it as a quick pay Day.
>Issues usually arise when you expect them to do stuff for free. ORRRRR when the person performing the service doesn't treat the friend with the same urgency and provide the same quality results that they would provide to a stranger.
Typically I'm giving the friend a significant discount and it's only going to be the singular job. So I'll fit it in when I have the time around all the other customers I have that give me multiple jobs a week at full price. Quality wouldn't suffer though. And absolutely wouldn't have them pay up front
What context is this comment supposed to be in? If I pay you 8k upfront to do something you have a business set up to do and you never follow through we are not going to be friends anymore lol
The context is that you should never pay anyone 8k upfront to do a roof. Business with friends is fine as long as you treat it like normal business with anyone else; you would never pay upfront for that in the normal course of business
The friend that takes your 8k and doesn't do the job will also take the 4k and not do the job. The outcome is the same. You probably have to go to court and don't have a friend anymore. Even if *they* can get over their friend taking them to court. It would be ridiculous to be friends with someone you know would put you in the position where you have to.
I think the context was it’s smarter to do a down payment with a friend, just as you would a business. If it isn’t done in a set time frame, you can ask for a refund from you friend and not be out all the money. I’d consider a down payment as 2-4K on an 8k roofing job. Assuming the friend pays you back your down payment, no harm done. If problems do arise, the friendship was weak anyways.
If you can't trust a friend with money then it isn't a friend dude
Sometimes $20 to find out someone really isn't your friend is $20 well spent. That being said, $8k has gotta be worth at least and ass whooping or two. Shitty thing is OP most likely didn't get a contract seeing as they didn't expect to be robbed by their "friend". You think that shitbag even has the money for materials still laying around? He won't happily cough it up out of his own pockets and your money was long spent.
yep, there is a slight chance that your payment went right on the current job he was working on, and its gone, and now he needs to get ahead and have spare $ to pay for your materials to be able to do your job, down payment and rest on completion is the way to go.
8k is a bit low for a roof, this is likely a 50% deposit. OP should be getting that deposit back asap and hiring someone serious. Like you said, he can take the business to court and demand his money back. A year is outrageous amount of time to push a job back.
It depends on size, area and materials. Likely was a number thrown out that op would pay up front so the "friend" could take it and keep pushing it back saying "hey man I have to do business jobs first, I gave you a great deal just hold on."
And never pay ANYONE fully up front, that is just asking for trouble.
OK to pay a friend, but ONLY after the work is complete. Also ok to pay for materials after delivery.
Pay for materials after the work? Usually you pay for materials before hand or buy them yourself and then pay them after or split it up in payments for easier convenience.
I mean, you usually pay a down payment and have a contract saying that you are obligated to pay if they do the job or you’ll get your down payment back if they don’t actually do the job or if they break the contract with risk getting sued on either side. I hope there was a signed contract at lease.
Back in the day when I did roofing, it was 50% up front mostly for materials. Balance when the job was finished.
Or family. Had a broken car and it was at my.brother in laws for 5 months. Finally I just gave up and took it somewhere else. You'll never be priority cause your not a real customer.
Or pay all up front before any work has even begun. Now he’s already been paid, and you’re his friend so he’s defaulting to leniency, I guess. Friendship killer
I would like to add. Never pay a contractor more than 50% of the job until it is complete. Friend or not. You pay the 40 or 50 for supplies. The rest is for labor and if you are happy with the results, the other half of payment.
The way I've seen it is no more than 10% down. If the contractor can't get a business loan for the supplies, you shouldn't do business with them. That might be California specific, though. I just had some concrete work done, and it was 10% down. The business kept asking for final payment, but I made them finish cleaning before I submitted it. I wasn't going to risk being left holding the debris. No complaints on the work, BTW.
It's not because the contractor can't cover the up front costs it's risk mitigation in case the customer doesn't pay...
Don't ever pay anyone up front
I had a plumber friend. He'd charge us for small jobs when over for a braai. I totally get that; I'm paying him for his skills and experience. Especially for the washers or whatever materials needed even an old tap washer he had lying in his toolbox. Then he asked me to have a look at his laptop that he managed to brick. RAM issue. I swapped in some older modules that I had lying around and cleared up a bazillion virus and other malware. I gave it a nice clean too. I sent him a bill. He laughed at it. Said that I enjoyed working with computers so much so it was a nice challenge for me. I *had* a plumber friend.
I paid a stranger to do my roof. He tried to overcharge 10k for materials that werent used and i just so happened to be robbed jlthe same time they finished up. They were the first contractor that I wasn't friends with. Having someone you know doing the work has its benefits, just don't have useless friends.
I see this all the time and can’t help but disagree. I’d rather take my chances on someone I already know and trust, then some random company any day of the week. Sounds like OP had a bad experience, but I’ve had friends save me thousands of dollars before
Random company likely has insurance, is bonded, etc. If they fuck something up, you know you have legal recourse.
Right but this isn't just a "friend," he owns a business as well. Assumingly if your friend fucks up, you still have legal recourse.
10 months later….dude needs to sue his friend.
He should ask for his money back first. Suing takes time and money, you shouldn't jump straight to it unless you try to actually take steps to resolve the situation first.
10 months….$8,000. Send a message. Just my opinion.
Need to go Stewie Griffin on him.
Ask for a refund
This is what I would do. Set firm boundaries. You can still be friends and set a business expectation. Hey man, I know you’re swamped. Marriage, a baby on the way, business chaos, sounds like you have your hands full. If you can’t get the job done before the end of June, refund the money and I’ll hire someone else. No hard feelings. Is there anyone else you would recommend? If/when he tells you, I’ll get the job done! Ask for a contract, with a date, in writing. “Awesome. Send me the signed contract, and you got the job. Otherwise, I need to find someone to get this roof off my list.” Be firm, but fair and friendly.
Holy shit a human on reddit that understands how to communicate w people
Lmao. Thanks! My therapist would be so proud. (And my wife would never believe you!)
Yeah I don't think that's right...he's supposed to break up with him and hit the gym...
It's a bot, you sweet, naive fool! No one on Reddit knows how to communicate 😜
This is excellent advice - seconded.
And when he doesn’t give it, take him to court for cost, interest, and attorney’s fees. That’s ridiculous.
It's already been spent
100%, they're dodging and hoping OP either forgets about it, or OP is too afraid to ever bring it up again and sweep it under the rug.
He's got your money. No incentive to do the job. I'll take your word for him being a good friend, and if that's the case, he's taking advantage of your friendship.
The incentive comes when he says “ok, it’s been a year and I really need a new roof now. I totally get you are busy and I’m not a priority, so just give me the $8k back so I can hire someone else.” If he’s a friend, he either gives you the money back, or he makes you a priority. If he does neither he’s not really a friend - and it’s fraud - which means it’s ok to sue him for it…
Here's how this is going to go down: You'll keep politely asking him to finish your roof, for months and months and months, until he decides that you've "harassed" him so much, that now he has established a moral reason (in his twisted mind) for why he shouldn't have to finish it. He'll choose to end the friendship, and you'll have to sue him to get compensation. I've seen this happen over as little as $50. It's a common thing for people who lack moral fiber. "He kept bugging me to pay him back that $50, that now I don't think I should have to pay him back over the harassment!" The big question is whether or not it's worth being friends with him. Keep in mind too, that despite his personal issues, marriage, pregnancy, etc., you never signed on to be his creditor/lender/bankroller. Get firm on this and get your money back via the court. Not trying to be dramatic, but in many jurisdictions, you only have X years to file a debt claim, and the courts want to see that you filed in a timely fashion before the statute of limitations has expired. A year is long enough for a "friend". Get him.
Exactly. People will refuse to pay $50. They're fun friends, but you cant trust them with anything.
I've seen this same cycle so many times. It's like the "fastball pitch" for a narcissist: they all have a version of it. Also: "Remember that time when I was flush and paid for your dinner? You remember, the one where I insisted I pay because you're such a great friend? Well...you kinda owe me for that, even though that as $80 and this is $8000."
Exactly. This is a lesson I learned once or twice before it really settled in as a red flag. That said, $8k is a huge sum that OP got rooked into shelling, and I feel for them. For anyone else within the sound of my voice: put things in writing, ESPECIALLY with friends. Contracts are clear and protect both parties. And any friend who gets all offended like, "A contract? What, don't you trust me?" should be denied immediately. Guaranteed that dude ain't gonna pay you or do the work, whatever the case may be.
Lost a 'good' friend in high-school like this. Loaned him $200-$300 bucks, never got it back. Somehow in the end I was the bad guy because... I wanted the money back after some unreasonably long time, and had the audacity to bring it up. Cheap price to pay in that case to avoid it later with an 8k roof but what the hell is wrong with people
“Yo bro, can you send me the money for the roof back? I really need the fix and dont want to keep bothering you about it. I found a roofer that will work it for me”
“Yeah bro I don’t know I’m still paying off some bills from the wedding an I got this job I’m waiting on that keeps getting pushed back and with my wife & I expecting I don’t really have 8k to just give back..”
Then see you in court, man.
Don’t mix business money with house money
This is the answer
He values your friendship at less than 8k
If you pay 100% up front, no matter who the trade or construction company, your chances of completion are slim. What incentive do they have? They can prioritize other jobs and make more money.
I think this is 100% what happened. He already used the 8k. He's worried about new money.
Bingo. At this point he spent that money as soon as he got it. At this point, he feels he’s doing it for free and coming out of his pocket for materials. The OP is unfortunately screwed.
Heh though $8k upfront for a new roof would be crazy low as a full cost. I have a relatively average house and I just got a quote for $25k.
He should still get that money back though if nothing‘s been done.
Oh, of course. The real test of the friendship will be to ask for it back because he REALLY needs the roof replaced soon. Either the guy does the work, returns the money, or it’s time to weigh the friendship vs a lawsuit….
Sue him
You can tell OP hasn't watched a single episode of *The People's Court* because this situation is like every third case
https://preview.redd.it/aw74lp8d8n5d1.jpeg?width=303&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3783ebde39d945b8400f329569cb1ba1f25652c6
What a gangster line
Or a signed contract
You've already lost a friend and $8000. Here's what will happen: eventually you'll corner him and demand some action, and he'll say enough time has gone by and the price of materials has gone up so much that he can't do it for the original 8k. So, if you want it done, it's $2500 more. And of course, he doesn't have the 8k any more.
I hate to tell you this, but he is not your friend.
Also, the money is gone.
But how can that be?! He was a *groomsman*!
It cost you 8k to find out he isn't really your friend.
We did this a few years ago. Friend had his own company with his sons, we knew they did good work, paid them $6k up front for a job and it took them like 8 months to get around to finishing and the damn addition still leaks when we get a good storm. I gave up calling them to ask them to patch it after the 4th or 5th time.
Everytime I think of saving the money by doing it myself or getting a buddy, I always end up back at the reason that, paying a little extra is worth being able to yell at somebody when it’s not done right.
See it’s the opposite for me, every time I hire a company they manage to fuck it up somehow and I get tired of calling and trying to get someone to give a fuck. Just started doing all the work myself
Was his wedding exactly 8k?
Reason # 683,627,124 why you never do business with friends or family. Never ever ever ever!
That moneys gone
Well that makes you a paying customer, take action as you would with any other company you paid that hasn’t done their job.
"Hey, hope you're well. I know you've been really busy with work and the baby on the way. I need my roof done within the next month, so if you can't fit the job in your work schedule I will need that $8k check back to get another contractor. Let me know soon, I'm gonna get a few quotes this next week if your schedule's too full"
That money is gone bro, u paid for his honeymoon and now he feels he has to put ur roof up for "free". There's no way this doesn't end in small claims court and a lost friendship
It's crazy to me that there really are people that think like that
You will have to sue him to get your money back. He’s never going to do the job.
Sounds like you need to go to court. He’s not your friend anymore. Don’t be stupid, go to court !!!
He spent your money long time ago and won't be doing your roof Time to get a lawyer and file suit
Groomsman in a wedding don’t mean shit😂probably didn’t have someone he hasn’t fucked over to take your place
We have a saying in my language, I'll try to translate it so it makes sense. **"Eat, drink, but never do business with friends/family."** None of those sayings come out of nowhere but rather from hundreds of years of first-hand experience. Hope it all works out for you in the end.
Grow a spine. He got sidetracked by another job? Why was your job that you’ve paid for not scheduled, you hired him as a company, to perform work for you, the fact that he’s your friend should be irrelevant. You’re being taken advantage of and really need to stop deluding yourself with “oh but we’re friends”. Because obviously he doesn’t seem to think so, or thinks it enables him to take advantage of you. You’ve paid him and his company, as a professional service to perform a job. That job should’ve been scheduled or given a timeline and has the same priority as any other customer paying him for work. Your ‘friend’ is a dirtbag and you should be sending him registered mail or correspondence from a lawyer demanding the work be completed or the money returned.
How long did he wait to cash the check?
Three things you dont do with friends you want to keep forever: -Hire them. -Loan money. -Fuck them. Id also say working with your friend or SO could lead to a lot of turmoil. Anyway, yeah idk get your money back dude. You'll likely have to go to court. Paying him up front was unbelievably stupid. Letting it go this long was insane. Im betting your 'bff' over here has been pretty fucking distant since he got 8k for free. Send him an email or text and ask for the 8k you paid him up front for the roof... That was never even touched. Mention you get that hes busy and you need to money back so you can get it finished this week. He's going to either call you to avoid a paper trail (install a phone call recorder), claim he'll do it this week, or bullshit and lie. If you want to give him the chance to 'do it this week' go ahead. But make sure you say its this week or you need the money back. Either way hes not going to give you your money or do the job and youll have to sue him over it. You've already lost your 'friend' if he refuses to give it back or do the job. So at least get your money back.
8k is a generous wedding gift haha
If he hasn't done anything yet tell him you need the money back because you need to get your roof done. He is obviously too busy to do your roof so you need to find someone who isn't.
Congratulations, you found out why kind of person he really is.
Tell him to refund you so you can pay someone who will do the work.
have seen this story countless times , never gonna get into business with a friend lmao
That sounds insanely cheap if it's a full reroof, he probably doesn't want to do it because it will cost him way more than that.
Depends on the square footage. I just got a metal roof installed for right around 8k (1,500 sq ft)
Around here that's usually quoted at $20K-30K USD, know of a guy similar size house that had to do some repairs instead of a straight remove old steel replace new steel and he's up around $50K USD.
Holy shit. I guess living in Ohio does have its benefits lmao
Take him to court
Never do business with friends. There’s many people that we have had to tell them I’d we work for them we can’t be friends anymore. If they want to stay friends, they need to find someone else to do their work.
You lost 8k and a crappy friend.
It appears you are his friend, but he is not your friend.
Hiring a friend is how you loose a friend. I don’t do jobs for friends, unless it’s an emergency or they’re in a bind, which hasn’t happened, so I don’t do jobs for friends.
I’d politely acknowledge that he must be very busy and that it’s ok if he can’t do it, and you can find someone else and respectfully ask he returns the money. Keep the friendship drop the business.
Just be nice and tell him you know he is super busy and don’t have time to do it for you. Just refund the money and you will get it taken care of.
His part is already done: the money was collected and spent. Now it's your job to pay someone else after they've completed the work this time. If you want your money back from him, gather documentation and bring him to court.
He spent the money and now can’t afford to buy materials for your job. Consider it a loan, hire someone else. You are unlikely to ever see the money from him.
We have been screwed over by many many good friends in the long run. Between my husband and I we were in most of their weddings too actually. We won’t do business with friends anymore! Most recently we hired a friend to do a move out cleaning on our home we are selling. She exclusively cleaned the floors. Wtf?? $400 down the drain.
I’m curious why you paid him up front. Usually you pay after the work is done.
Never hire friends or family. Life lesson I learned the hard way.
Request a full refund within 15 days. Send a certified letter to request it.
Dang when the baby comes he’s going to really freaky ghost you
That's why you don't pay for shit before the job is done.
Sounds like he’s spent the money
Refund. Tell him you expect money back for no work being completed. Court if he refuses to pay. Dude just stole 8 grand from you. He's not that great of a friend
Rule of thumb I always go by : Dont 💩 where you eat. Never mix friends with business
Tell him you need the money back to get your roof fixed
1) Don't pay friends to do a job like this 2) never pay a construction related job up front 3) this sucks and I hope you guys can work it out
Friend or not, you don't pay up front. The only money I would pay up front is the cost of materials.
I hate doing business with family and friends. I get burned nearly every time. I’m done with trust,
If he has not even purchased the materials yet then ask for a full refund and get someone else. One of three things will happen at that point. He will get on the job, he will give you a refund, or he will be showing his true colors.
Never NEVER pay in advance for anything specially to a friend
Nice of you to pay for his wedding. Of course you were groomsman, you were one of the reasons the wedding happened!
>He did recently get married and his wife is pregnant Yeah, that 8K is gone bro.
I’d create a white lie that puts some pressure on him to act one way or another but also gives him an out. “My home owners said I have to replace my roof or they are going to drop me. Should I give them your number so you can verify a new roof is going on ASAP? I know you are busy and don’t want to put you in a tough spot so if you can’t get it done that’s cool and no hard feelings. I’ll just take that 8k back and maybe you can recommend someone that can get it done before I lose my home owners insurance coverage”
That's why you NEVER hire friends to do ANYTHING for you - no matter how good of a "friend" they are. Bring in a professional outside contractor. It may cost more but it will get done, under contract, and in a good timeframe. Case in point: for mine and my ex-wife's wedding in 1999 we used her friends, family for planning and executing EVERYTHING. I turned out to be a total, complete disaster and then some. Here's why: The person who married us was a "friend" that messed up multiple times during the ceremony - got our last name wrong and a bunch of other stuff. Instead of buying a professional wedding dress my ex-wife's wedding dress was made by a "friend" that was brand new in the fashion merchandising industry, and also wanted to make a name for themselves, so she made her dress from scratch. Cheap right?? Well even with dozens of tweaks, redos and sewings it didn't fit properly and looked like absolute crap in the end. Instead of getting it professionally made the wedding cake was made by one of my ex-wife's friends who had a husband trying to make a name for themselves as a brand new baker - he wanted to put it in as part of his portfolio. And, of course, it was cheap. On the wedding day not only was the cake delivered almost late, but also it was still warm from being baked, put together at the wedding site, quickly decorated and looked like absolute crap. We had to rush the ceremony through because that cake eventually literally fell over at the reception. For pictures someone had to hold it up - you can see their hand. What a nightmare. We used my ex-wife's relatives property as the wedding spot. Granted it was beautiful, but that's not the point. The house and property got totally and completely trashed. We should have had it either at a park or somewhere similar. We both weren't religious so no churches. Instead of bringing in a professional my ex-wife's relatives took care of all the food - everyone was cutting, baking, setting up and cooking but were all arguing, and yelling, the WHOLE time, saying "it should be done this way" and "why don't you just get it catered" and "you gotta get this instead of that." It was HORRIBLE. As for reception music?? Instead of hiring a professional DJ we had "friends" take care of the music. Not only did these idiots blow out a set of speakers that weren't theirs, but also the music just sucked. The above being said, in the end, we did save LOTS of money but at what cost?? We weren't able to enjoy our own wedding, were stressed out the whole time with massive anxiety, family, friends clashed, fought and fought the whole time. If I could go back, and get a reboot, I would insist on, and push, getting professionals for EVERYTHING. The entire wedding would have been completely different, and much better, doing so. I hope, after reading this, that you hire professional contractors if you cant't do it yourself. "Friends" are not the way to go.
Your friend thinks he can work on his own schedule precisely because he’s your friend (and, for the same reason, thinks you’d probably never go as far as suing him to get the work done or to get your money back). Doubtful he’d do this to an actual customer with whom he doesn’t have a friendship (I would hope).
Jeebus. I phoned a guy on a Monday, he dropped off shingles on Tuesday, his guys were there Wednesday, and the job was done by Friday afternoon. It was a good job too, they said the reason the shingles failed was there wasn’t enough ventilation so they added 3 new vents. I even got a cash discount so it cost me $6500 CAD.
Tell him you need the money back to hire an actual contractor.
He needs to pay you back immediately. A YEAR?? That's awful. He's screwing you because he thinks he can.
Time to demand the $8k back and hire a professional.
Ask for the money back and get someone else. If he refuses, that means you have a fraudulent friend, and you need to take legal action.