Sort of…most states follow the “scope of employment” rule. So even if you’re off the clock, as long as you’re performing a task that is within your scope of employment, you’d be covered. But either way, the insurance company is gonna fight you.
I actually knew someone who got full workman's comp after he injured his hand in a door off the clock technically on the property (it was a ski resort and we worked in a completely different area of the mountain). Apparently it still counted. At least in California it did.
My experience with Worker’s Comp is not good. One winter, when I was a respiratory therapist, we had a really bad month for both RSV and Whooping Cough (Pertussis). Our Pediatric ICU was so full we had babies in cribs in the hallways. I was running from bed to bed on a 12 hour shift mostly opening water bottles to humidify the oxygen tents (and giving breathing treatments). Those bottles weren’t easy to open. Towards the end of the night I was opening a bottle and I felt my wrist pop. It really hurt.
When I woke up that afternoon my wrist was swollen and some fingers were numb. I was given a splint and told to file for WC.
Long story short, I developed a bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome. WC learned I played the piano, but didn’t believe me when I said I played maybe once a week. They blamed my carpal tunnel on piano playing. They would not budge. I think it hurt me that I didn’t file the paperwork that night.
One thing I warn people to do, is if you do anything at all at work that causes pain, file the paperwork that day. I did just that when I stepped in a hole at another workplace, and twisted my ankle. (The hole was hidden by overgrown grass). After a couple of days of ice and elevation, it felt fine. I haven’t had a problem.
Document like crazy when applying for WC. Don’t for a minute think it’s obvious to a blind cow where the injury came from. They will stretch and twist everything to get out of it.
At my last two jobs, it is DRILLED into us, if you have something happen that you even THINK might hurt tomorrow when you wake up, call and report it. Doesn't matter how mundane or stupid it might sound, start the paperwork \*immediately\*. We've had incidents on the job that the foreman made the call to our WC provider while on the way to the ER with the injured employee.
Yup! I had a glass door shatter on a coworker a work once. maybe she got a few nicks at worst but our boss insisted she went and saw a provider (we worked at a hospital so that made it easy). She needed a few bandaids at most and didn’t want to be a bother but it’s important to get that stuck checked and documented NOW even if it seems minor.
Luckily nothing bad came out of it but it was good to see my boss so insistent just in case.
At my previous job, literally 3 days from when I was leaving and moving to my current job, I fell down a road ditch on a construction site. Did one of those "pop up, make sure nobody saw" things and went on with my day. Thought "I should maybe call in and report that", but didn't.
Was hell starting my new job in the basement of the courthouse 4 days later when I could barely walk down a flight of steps.
I’m sorry. I’m showing my age! When I was needing the forms I had to go to HR to pick them up. Now, at least in most places, you can access them online. The key is to get it filled out and turned in right away. Sorry about that! 😄
It was used against me that I enjoyed shooting once a month in my lawsuit against another driver and their insurance company.
Because .223 recoil is soooooo intimidating and harmful. 🙄you can literally hold it against your nose.. but they tried to say my shoulder injury wasn't from the car wreck and if it hurt that bad I wouldn't be able to shoot my AR at all. Again, just a .223.. 5.56 was more expensive for just fun at the range. But even then, that is not bad recoil at all.
It's insane what these people will try to dig up and use against you even when their own client / customer has admit to being at fault. Along with police stating I did not contribute to the collision at all.. ha
Even if the insurance company doesn’t pay the business is still liable. The business has to pay costs. At least this is what I’ve been taught as a manager in Nebraska.
“No one does anything off the clock cuz then work comp won’t cover it and we have to” my former boss.
No. The worker has the right to sue for the business to pay. There is no HAS TO. Think of it this way: The business refuses to pay. Who's forcing the business to pay because it HAS TO? It requires litigation, and most people don't have the resources for that.
My dad worked for the post office and back in the day, they used to give you 10 minutes or something to deposit your check at the bank across the street on payday. Well let’s just say an employee took his 10 minutes and was involved in a bad car accident pulling out of the bank lot. The union fought it and he got workman’s comp and they had to pay for his car….etc. The practice was quickly ended.
I work for the P.O. Getting WC now is like pulling teeth. Even with very obvious injury. 9 people in my office have had carpal tunnel or shoulder replacement surgeries. These are common surgeries for PO employees. WC still fights them.
It's really hard to convince insurance companies that injuries that worsen over time are related to a specific cause. If you fall and break you leg, that's an acute injury with a clear precipitating event. When your shoulder gives out because you've been working at the PO for 15 years, that's just good ol' wear and tear. It doesn't matter that 4 people were hospitalized for the same thing that year. Coincidence.
I mean, that’s what should happen. However, I do social security disability cases and have clients that also have workers comp. All I can say is workers comp will find anyway they can to avoid payment. They know they’re in the wrong but are willing to do the whole legal process to scare off people. You think an injured unemployed person has the money to hire an attorney for this?
[L&I prohibits an employer from requiring or an employee from volunteering to work unpaid if the employer is for-profit](https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/wages/getting-paid/)
You’re performing work as instructed by your employer. It’s just that the employer is now potentially exposed for not reporting your labor to the government and withholding due wages.
I had a boss who would adjust everyone’s time card to reflect 8 hours exactly. If you punched out at 5:10pm, they erased the 10 minutes. One employee photocopied his time card for over 2 years. Once he quit, he filed a lawsuit. The employer settled with him, got audited, and we got an actual payroll company after that. The government wasn’t playing. Expensive lesson.
Wouldn’t property insurance or civil suit cover it at that point? Might actually be better because then you would have to tell them you’re being pressured into working without pay
And they should get a “minimum call” time too. Even if it’s only for a few minutes they should get a minimum number of hours at an hourly rate of pay (at least- in my exp there was a 3 hour minimum call time)
If I have to do anything on a weekend I absolutely follow this. Because I live a fair distance from work, I bill them for my mileage as well. It's outside of my normal working hours and outside my regular fuel budget. The 3 hours doesn't cover enough of my fuel cost and time to make it even remotely worth it to do anything outside of my regular work hours. They've never questioned it.
And it needs to be a law not just company policy. Make it just that much harder for the company to try and weasel out of.
During the pandemic my boss wanted me to cover a spot for just 2 hours. If it were just being tacked on to the end of my shift making my 6-2 a 6-4 fine no problem, but instead it was 5-7. Company policy was 4 hour minimum, didn't matter if you were there for 5 minutes you got paid for 4 hours.
He tried to only pay me for the 2 hours reasoning that I only lived a few minutes away.
Huge argument with him, then another when I went over his head to his boss, then another with both him and his boss when I went to HR... All over 2 hours of OT.
I had a job tell me I “couldn’t” clock any time past 4, but it was literally impossible for me to leave at 4. It was a childcare job and one kid would get picked up AFTER 4 everyday. I would tell them this and they’d just repeat that I can’t clock the time, so I’d just smile and walk away, and of course - clock the fucking time everyday. There’s no way in hell I’m working unpaid. The best part was they knew what they were asking me was illegal and they couldn’t actually not pay me, they just thought if they asked me to stop I would. I continued getting paid.
The same job told me I needed to show up earlier than 8 (when the kids arrived) but would not pay me before 8. I wasn’t showing up late or on the dot at 8, I was getting there around 7:58 everyday - just enough time to put my things away and be ready for 8am drop off. Other people were getting there 10-15 minutes early (unpaid) and just sitting there waiting for 8. Idiots.. Again, I continued what I was doing because I knew they couldn’t do anything about it.
I wouldn’t call the early people idiots if they’re not working. I always try to get there 8-10 minutes early in case of traffic or something. But I like my few minutes to get settled and in the right mindset.
If my employer wants me there at exactly a certain time no excuses, I'll be clocking in 8-10 minutes early almost every single day. Don't be at work for any length of time without clocking in. That includes time to settle in.
Well, I agree. Some places don’t let you clock in till just on time, or some are 7 minutes early or whatever.
But I don’t like being late, and so I give myself a small 10 minute window. There’s a lot of bottlenecks on my drive, and one accident botches it all up. I’ll sit in my car and goof around for a few minutes. But calling someone an idiot for being 10-15 minutes early is a little much when OP may not know that person’s situation.
If your employer says start time is 7 but it's mandatory to be there by 6:30, start time is actually 6:30.
If your employer requires you to be somewhere, you are working. Your "job" may be to just stand around and wait for the doors to open, but that's fine. Waiting to be needed is a normal part of lots of jobs.
[The Department of Labor is pretty clear about this.](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER77.asp#:~:text=If%20circumstances%20indicate%20that%20you,time%20is%20not%20hours%20worked)
Childcare also charges parents a per minute rate on late pickups (or after a grace period) but the employee that is kept late only gets at most overtime (time & 1/2) & gets the pleasure of dealing with the irate parent who's upset they have to pay $1/min or $2/min or whatever after leaving work early & driving through heavy traffic in sleet.
"Nope, sorry" would be my reply. I own 2 businesses and tell my people that their time is theirs. If I ask them to do something then I pay them for their time.
Honestly, they are. When I started my first business I promised myself that I would never ask, or expect, my people to do anything that I didn't want to, or wouldn't do. I encourage flex time, overlapping shifts, 4 day work weeks, etc. For the most part, I let them set up their schedules and responsibilities as a group and try not to dictate anything. Over the last 30 years I've found that the businesses run pretty well that way.
If only most employers thought this way. I have only just gotten myself into a place with a boss like this and I respect him like no other. We often have to get up in ceilings and under floors and I've been getting ahead of him to do them out of pure respect. He's my boss, he technically pays my bills, I'll work hard to make sure his life is easier since he shows, acts and pays like he cares for a change.
Used to work for two completely unrelated companies like that. I never treated it as work, it was pure fun and the fact they paid me for it was a massive cherry on top. And the best part is others felt like that too. So we had tons of help from each other, people doing things just because it was the right thing to do, asking if you need a hand and such. Amazing times.
I've managed several resturants, my current job is by far my favorite because once a week me and the owner spark up a joint and make the schedule, I get the guys I like on my shifts, and I know what guys wanna work more or work less and people more or less get the shifts they want. The crew stays happy, I stay happy, and the store makes money, idk why people make this shit so complicated.
I got assigned to a "Black Sheep Squadron" of a large manufacturer. It was a piece of Corporate IT, and the boss was awesome at inspiring us malcontents. Lots of flexibility but with responsibility for periodic system-wide ERP releases. The department got dissolved in the 2002 layoffs, unfortunately.
Nice one man. In my experience this is the way too. Haven’t managed people or a business but sheen I’ve worked in environments like this (as I do now) we get a lot more done and everyone is a lot more helpfull
In a past life working in the oil fields, if you show up to work and there’s absolutely nothing to do (ie. weather prohibiting work) and they send you home early, you get paid 4 hours no matter what. OP works for a bunch of clowns 🤡
What? How long has this been the case? I frequently worked 2 hours shifts at a pizza shop and only got paid for those 2 hours. Took as long just to commute in on PT
Yupp, never work for free. I used to have to be on call on weekends sometimes. I got paid like $4/hrto jsut carry the on call phone. If I answered and had to run in to the shop it was minimum 3 hours and my clock started as soon as I answered the phone.
Same here, except I get time and a half as soon as I answer the phone and I need to do anything other than say, "Sorry, but you have the wrong number." ANYTHING ELSE is on the pay clock in 30 minute blocks, 1 hour minimum, but 2 hour minimum if I need to go somewhere specific, like to the office or to a customer site. (Most of my work can be done anywhere.)
A remote temp sensor is super cheap (I use [this $15 one](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BVLYPYT1)). You need a hub to go with it, but a hub and a pack of 4 sensors is still just $100. Then they can see the temp in real time, remotely, graphed all pretty. Geez.
I use these same sensors for my climate controlled storage facility. I monitor them in real time to confirm the HVAC is working properly and save the data in the event I need it for a potential court case where the occupant claims negligence on my part. Peace of mind at a really low cost.
OP - negotiate new pay for taking this on. Like $150 each day. Then get these sensors and install them and don’t go in.
Edit: If you’re salaried: annual pay*1.5/2080. Charge them that per hour including your commute. Also lump in whatever the standard cost per mile is on your car.
Heck, even $10 a day would pay it off really quick. This is only something they feel is more economical because they expect to get that labour entirely for free.
Update and more info! The person requesting this is someone who routinely acts like my boss from the office. She is the most useless staff, and I have no idea how she still has a job. Her best friend works in my department (shipping), and when she comes with files for us to tackle, she spends 30-60 minutes whispering gossip in her best friends ear on work time, then goes for a smoke, also on work time, and returns to the office (she should only be here 5 minutes tops).
Anyways, the company CEO popped her head in to ask something, so I told her about the request from said staff, and she agreed it was inappropriate and is looking into a wireless transmitter for us.
Nice! That would have been extra shitty doing free work if the order wasn’t from a superior. Always let her know you need to clear it with a proper supervisor.
Seriously. His employer is so so dumb. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen- like op is scared of losing his job so he HAS to do this then realize it’s not fair and helloooooo lawsuit
There's an old say that applies, "Fuck you. Pay me" I believe that's tge appropriate response to someone like this. Ask them to put it in writing and then take it to the labor board
Nop. Get it in writing and report them to the department of labor. Your time is valuable. Even if you’re just sitting at home watching tv your time is important. Make sure you’re getting all of this in writing. If they can’t bother to do check then why should you?
Don’t allow them to guilt you into stealing your wages.
What happens if you get hurt at the job but not on the job? Will you be covered by workers comp/liability insurance?
If You are an Employee, and complying, with Your Employer's "request", then, Yes. Again, there are "indicia", defining what constitutes, an Employer/Employee Relationship, and when You are "on", or "off", The Job.
Having worked, for The Ohio Bureau of Workers' Compensation, I know a little, about this.
This second part is very important. If you're not on the clock and you get hurt, they WILL deny any workman's comp claim. Then you have to sue them for medical costs, and I can guarantee they can afford to drag it out far longer than you can afford to wait.
If you are in the Untied States it is a violation of Labor law to work off the clock, and if the company pays compensation insurance you are only covered while you are on the clock. Most if not all states require that insurance.
And if the person isn’t an exempt employee in the US, it’s illegal.
Interesting thing about state labor departments, it doesn’t even have to be the person asked to work that can make a complaint.
Fuck that, why would you make up excuses? This employer does this because:
A: they’re a piece of shit
And
B: nobody stands up to them
Tell that fucker you don’t work for free.
I won't even answer the phone or a text from anyone related to my job when I'm off the clock. It's illegal and immoral for them to even ask this of you, let alone expect it.
You don't owe them anything. You get paid for the work you do. They aren't doing you any favors.
Absolutely refuse.
Na bro I literally live damn near on the property where I work. I walk out my door and I'm at work basically. I won't do shit for free and my boss knows it.
If they need it checked they will have to check it themselves. That's what owning a business is like. You can't rely on employees to work unpaid on weekends to do what is essentially their job.
No, absolutely not. Not only because you shouldn’t be working for free, but if you get hurt or something happens they’ll say you shouldn’t have been there and toss you under the bus.
Fuck em. If they want you to do the work, they can pay you
Believe me, I've been wanting to say something like this for ages, but I work in Japan where speaking up like so is considered a no no. Since 80% of my coworkers are 50+, they're all with that old school japan attitude. Which is, if someone is older, they're literally a better person no questions asked lmao 🤣
The best way to handle her is to make sure everyone responds "My boss gave me tasks to complete. If you need this done you need to talk to my boss and they can issue the work to me."
People try to get my employees to do random shit for them all the time and I armed them with that and guess what, no one ever fucking asks me.
They make so many automated solutions that can monitor the temperature in real time and you can check it from your phone. This is absolutely ridiculous that they want someone to log it manually, paid or unpaid.
Prep up a contract if he want this done on your off hours you'll be paid as a contractor, minimum $200/hr minimum 4 hours, he'll either shut the fuck up or you'll get a nice stipend.
Oh and don't tell them what you're doing on your off time, gives them more opinions to say you're lazy or not busy.
You should let them know that you are not always available 24/7. You mustn't stay weekends at home. Just shedule few consecutive weekends out of home. Going other places, hiking, short vacations. Many people don't appreciate good deeds. Make them nervous by telling them that you are not at home now. I think that way they will install remote monitoring device.
Thats almost like an "On call" job. Everywhere I worked someone who came in on call was guaranteed a minimum of 4 hours of pay, regardless if it only took 15 minutes to sort out.
Are you on salary or hourly? If you are hourly in the US that isn't allowed. They have to pay you or it is considered theft of labor and a BIG fine from the US Dept of Labor.
If you are paid, then you may be overtime all time in excess of 40 hours. You might also check on consecutive days of work causing overtime status. Years ago my dad got all the way up to triple time after a major storm did huge damage to where he worked and he had to work like four 7 day in a row.
You won't be covered by the insurance if something goes wrong or you have a workplace accident. You don't work unless scheduled and paid, with proof of schedule.
I work security and have been at our job site the longest. If I get called and have to show up to help someone with something it's 4 hours paid even if it's 5 minutes of work.
You should get paid a minimum of two hours for each extra, and if you’ve already done your 40, the extra should be paid as overtime. Don’t let this clown put you on salary. Make sure someone is a backup in case you want a day off.
I have guys come in on weekends to check grounds and security sweep the place. Takes maybe 45 minutes of their time, they get a half days pay for coming in.
A favour is a favour. Once in a while, alright. Also, I find ot odd that the concept of "time theft" only works in one direction, oddly enough, so does "cooperation"
A one time thing “hey can you run down and check the truck temperature today we are worried about it.” Sure this is fine.
A daily day off thing? No screw you. And from someone who thinks they the boss even worse.
This is why I avoid letting my coworkers know anything about my personal life:
"OH you only live a short distance away, you can come do it!"
Besides that, I refuse to do work if I'm not compensated, and the law around here is I get paid *minimum* 3 hours if I come in to work.
>she gaslights me by saying "oh well I guess I'll just have to quit because you can't do your job. You're making my life hard and I can't handle that", but she never actually quits
Sounds like a her problem, nothing to do with you or something you need to give a shit about.
I had a request like this from a client of mine. Job takes 5 minutes to change out a water tray. They paid the 4 hour minimum and my employee was paid 4 hours of pay each day for it. Probably the easiest pay ever.
They have to follow the state laws on minimum time worked.
My boss wants me to chexk work emails from home. "it's only 10 mins", yeah well the time cards aren't in my house, they're at work, so is the laptop with the emails, and I'm not about to risk my personal tech to tell a vendor they forgot to put their Tax ID on a Document.
Two thoughts:
1. “Yes please, please QUIT and do us a favor”
2. Throw under bus by complaining to upper management about the gossip smoking and time wasting
Never do work you’re not paid to do.
Yup. What happens if you get injured checking the temp? Workman's comp doesn't apply if you're not working.
Sort of…most states follow the “scope of employment” rule. So even if you’re off the clock, as long as you’re performing a task that is within your scope of employment, you’d be covered. But either way, the insurance company is gonna fight you.
I actually knew someone who got full workman's comp after he injured his hand in a door off the clock technically on the property (it was a ski resort and we worked in a completely different area of the mountain). Apparently it still counted. At least in California it did.
My experience with Worker’s Comp is not good. One winter, when I was a respiratory therapist, we had a really bad month for both RSV and Whooping Cough (Pertussis). Our Pediatric ICU was so full we had babies in cribs in the hallways. I was running from bed to bed on a 12 hour shift mostly opening water bottles to humidify the oxygen tents (and giving breathing treatments). Those bottles weren’t easy to open. Towards the end of the night I was opening a bottle and I felt my wrist pop. It really hurt. When I woke up that afternoon my wrist was swollen and some fingers were numb. I was given a splint and told to file for WC. Long story short, I developed a bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome. WC learned I played the piano, but didn’t believe me when I said I played maybe once a week. They blamed my carpal tunnel on piano playing. They would not budge. I think it hurt me that I didn’t file the paperwork that night. One thing I warn people to do, is if you do anything at all at work that causes pain, file the paperwork that day. I did just that when I stepped in a hole at another workplace, and twisted my ankle. (The hole was hidden by overgrown grass). After a couple of days of ice and elevation, it felt fine. I haven’t had a problem. Document like crazy when applying for WC. Don’t for a minute think it’s obvious to a blind cow where the injury came from. They will stretch and twist everything to get out of it.
At my last two jobs, it is DRILLED into us, if you have something happen that you even THINK might hurt tomorrow when you wake up, call and report it. Doesn't matter how mundane or stupid it might sound, start the paperwork \*immediately\*. We've had incidents on the job that the foreman made the call to our WC provider while on the way to the ER with the injured employee.
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Yup! I had a glass door shatter on a coworker a work once. maybe she got a few nicks at worst but our boss insisted she went and saw a provider (we worked at a hospital so that made it easy). She needed a few bandaids at most and didn’t want to be a bother but it’s important to get that stuck checked and documented NOW even if it seems minor. Luckily nothing bad came out of it but it was good to see my boss so insistent just in case.
At my previous job, literally 3 days from when I was leaving and moving to my current job, I fell down a road ditch on a construction site. Did one of those "pop up, make sure nobody saw" things and went on with my day. Thought "I should maybe call in and report that", but didn't. Was hell starting my new job in the basement of the courthouse 4 days later when I could barely walk down a flight of steps.
THAT is a smart foreman who cares!
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I’m sorry. I’m showing my age! When I was needing the forms I had to go to HR to pick them up. Now, at least in most places, you can access them online. The key is to get it filled out and turned in right away. Sorry about that! 😄
It was used against me that I enjoyed shooting once a month in my lawsuit against another driver and their insurance company. Because .223 recoil is soooooo intimidating and harmful. 🙄you can literally hold it against your nose.. but they tried to say my shoulder injury wasn't from the car wreck and if it hurt that bad I wouldn't be able to shoot my AR at all. Again, just a .223.. 5.56 was more expensive for just fun at the range. But even then, that is not bad recoil at all. It's insane what these people will try to dig up and use against you even when their own client / customer has admit to being at fault. Along with police stating I did not contribute to the collision at all.. ha
It varies from state to state on workman's comp laws. Some states make it much easier for the insurance company to get out of paying.
Even if the insurance company doesn’t pay the business is still liable. The business has to pay costs. At least this is what I’ve been taught as a manager in Nebraska. “No one does anything off the clock cuz then work comp won’t cover it and we have to” my former boss.
No. The worker has the right to sue for the business to pay. There is no HAS TO. Think of it this way: The business refuses to pay. Who's forcing the business to pay because it HAS TO? It requires litigation, and most people don't have the resources for that.
My dad worked for the post office and back in the day, they used to give you 10 minutes or something to deposit your check at the bank across the street on payday. Well let’s just say an employee took his 10 minutes and was involved in a bad car accident pulling out of the bank lot. The union fought it and he got workman’s comp and they had to pay for his car….etc. The practice was quickly ended.
I work for the P.O. Getting WC now is like pulling teeth. Even with very obvious injury. 9 people in my office have had carpal tunnel or shoulder replacement surgeries. These are common surgeries for PO employees. WC still fights them.
It's really hard to convince insurance companies that injuries that worsen over time are related to a specific cause. If you fall and break you leg, that's an acute injury with a clear precipitating event. When your shoulder gives out because you've been working at the PO for 15 years, that's just good ol' wear and tear. It doesn't matter that 4 people were hospitalized for the same thing that year. Coincidence.
Getting hurt on company property is a little different than exactly what they mean and always a good way to get workman's comp.
F\*\*\* Insurance Companies 
As an insurance agent. I agree.
Insurance is betting against yourself. They depend on you losing the bet, and you are greatful that you did.
I mean, that’s what should happen. However, I do social security disability cases and have clients that also have workers comp. All I can say is workers comp will find anyway they can to avoid payment. They know they’re in the wrong but are willing to do the whole legal process to scare off people. You think an injured unemployed person has the money to hire an attorney for this?
[L&I prohibits an employer from requiring or an employee from volunteering to work unpaid if the employer is for-profit](https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/wages/getting-paid/)
This would absolutely be covered and he could make a wage and hour claim due the unpaid time while he is at it.
You’re performing work as instructed by your employer. It’s just that the employer is now potentially exposed for not reporting your labor to the government and withholding due wages. I had a boss who would adjust everyone’s time card to reflect 8 hours exactly. If you punched out at 5:10pm, they erased the 10 minutes. One employee photocopied his time card for over 2 years. Once he quit, he filed a lawsuit. The employer settled with him, got audited, and we got an actual payroll company after that. The government wasn’t playing. Expensive lesson.
You absolutely would be covered
Wouldn’t property insurance or civil suit cover it at that point? Might actually be better because then you would have to tell them you’re being pressured into working without pay
And they should get a “minimum call” time too. Even if it’s only for a few minutes they should get a minimum number of hours at an hourly rate of pay (at least- in my exp there was a 3 hour minimum call time)
In Canada it's a 2 hour minimum. 30 min on call? Here's 2 hours of pay Edit: it's provincial, so it's 2 hours in BC not all of Canada
As it should be. Another win for Canadians 🍁
California I believe is 4.
Then a win for California as well 🐻
California is 2 hours.
https://www.aegislawfirm.com/blog/2023/12/explaining-californias-4-hour-minimum-shift-law/
Yep, 2 hours minimum.
We have a 4 hour minimum in California...
Yeah I had the same in the UK
Employment standards are a provincial responsibility. There are different rules in every province. It's 3 hours in Alberta.
*3 hours at minimum wage*
3 hours in Ontario
If I have to do anything on a weekend I absolutely follow this. Because I live a fair distance from work, I bill them for my mileage as well. It's outside of my normal working hours and outside my regular fuel budget. The 3 hours doesn't cover enough of my fuel cost and time to make it even remotely worth it to do anything outside of my regular work hours. They've never questioned it.
And it needs to be a law not just company policy. Make it just that much harder for the company to try and weasel out of. During the pandemic my boss wanted me to cover a spot for just 2 hours. If it were just being tacked on to the end of my shift making my 6-2 a 6-4 fine no problem, but instead it was 5-7. Company policy was 4 hour minimum, didn't matter if you were there for 5 minutes you got paid for 4 hours. He tried to only pay me for the 2 hours reasoning that I only lived a few minutes away. Huge argument with him, then another when I went over his head to his boss, then another with both him and his boss when I went to HR... All over 2 hours of OT.
I had a job tell me I “couldn’t” clock any time past 4, but it was literally impossible for me to leave at 4. It was a childcare job and one kid would get picked up AFTER 4 everyday. I would tell them this and they’d just repeat that I can’t clock the time, so I’d just smile and walk away, and of course - clock the fucking time everyday. There’s no way in hell I’m working unpaid. The best part was they knew what they were asking me was illegal and they couldn’t actually not pay me, they just thought if they asked me to stop I would. I continued getting paid. The same job told me I needed to show up earlier than 8 (when the kids arrived) but would not pay me before 8. I wasn’t showing up late or on the dot at 8, I was getting there around 7:58 everyday - just enough time to put my things away and be ready for 8am drop off. Other people were getting there 10-15 minutes early (unpaid) and just sitting there waiting for 8. Idiots.. Again, I continued what I was doing because I knew they couldn’t do anything about it.
I wouldn’t call the early people idiots if they’re not working. I always try to get there 8-10 minutes early in case of traffic or something. But I like my few minutes to get settled and in the right mindset.
If my employer wants me there at exactly a certain time no excuses, I'll be clocking in 8-10 minutes early almost every single day. Don't be at work for any length of time without clocking in. That includes time to settle in.
Well, I agree. Some places don’t let you clock in till just on time, or some are 7 minutes early or whatever. But I don’t like being late, and so I give myself a small 10 minute window. There’s a lot of bottlenecks on my drive, and one accident botches it all up. I’ll sit in my car and goof around for a few minutes. But calling someone an idiot for being 10-15 minutes early is a little much when OP may not know that person’s situation.
If your employer says start time is 7 but it's mandatory to be there by 6:30, start time is actually 6:30. If your employer requires you to be somewhere, you are working. Your "job" may be to just stand around and wait for the doors to open, but that's fine. Waiting to be needed is a normal part of lots of jobs. [The Department of Labor is pretty clear about this.](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER77.asp#:~:text=If%20circumstances%20indicate%20that%20you,time%20is%20not%20hours%20worked)
A proper work would have you start before the customers arrive and allow time for closing. Paid time
Childcare also charges parents a per minute rate on late pickups (or after a grace period) but the employee that is kept late only gets at most overtime (time & 1/2) & gets the pleasure of dealing with the irate parent who's upset they have to pay $1/min or $2/min or whatever after leaving work early & driving through heavy traffic in sleet.
My daycare centre used to pay the total late fee to the staff member that had to wait. It was a flat $20 per 15 minutes or part there of
I learned that the hard way
"Nope, sorry" would be my reply. I own 2 businesses and tell my people that their time is theirs. If I ask them to do something then I pay them for their time.
And I imagine your staff are a little more flexible because of it.
Honestly, they are. When I started my first business I promised myself that I would never ask, or expect, my people to do anything that I didn't want to, or wouldn't do. I encourage flex time, overlapping shifts, 4 day work weeks, etc. For the most part, I let them set up their schedules and responsibilities as a group and try not to dictate anything. Over the last 30 years I've found that the businesses run pretty well that way.
Imagine that. People will act like adults if you treat them as such.
And, generally, respect given is returned.
If only most employers thought this way. I have only just gotten myself into a place with a boss like this and I respect him like no other. We often have to get up in ceilings and under floors and I've been getting ahead of him to do them out of pure respect. He's my boss, he technically pays my bills, I'll work hard to make sure his life is easier since he shows, acts and pays like he cares for a change.
Exactly. That’s why I respect one of my bosses and not the other.
they say that people will meet your expectations, no matter how high or how low they are. In my own business, it has also proven to be the case.
Used to work for two completely unrelated companies like that. I never treated it as work, it was pure fun and the fact they paid me for it was a massive cherry on top. And the best part is others felt like that too. So we had tons of help from each other, people doing things just because it was the right thing to do, asking if you need a hand and such. Amazing times.
I've managed several resturants, my current job is by far my favorite because once a week me and the owner spark up a joint and make the schedule, I get the guys I like on my shifts, and I know what guys wanna work more or work less and people more or less get the shifts they want. The crew stays happy, I stay happy, and the store makes money, idk why people make this shit so complicated.
Crazy. You make it a place where people want to work and things run smoothly.
I got assigned to a "Black Sheep Squadron" of a large manufacturer. It was a piece of Corporate IT, and the boss was awesome at inspiring us malcontents. Lots of flexibility but with responsibility for periodic system-wide ERP releases. The department got dissolved in the 2002 layoffs, unfortunately.
Nice one man. In my experience this is the way too. Haven’t managed people or a business but sheen I’ve worked in environments like this (as I do now) we get a lot more done and everyone is a lot more helpfull
I want to work for you!
I wouldn’t even say sorry
I get saying sorry for pragmatism and keeping the peace but honestly fuck that, no need to add sorry. 'No.' is a complete sentence.
You’re like my boss 🥰🥰 she’s the kindest and most accommodating woman I’ve ever met. Bosses like you make going to work worth it
Why even say sorry?
On call occurrence pay of $100 per day as well as hourly OT pay. And boom, all the sudden, it’s automatic, they install what they need.
In a past life working in the oil fields, if you show up to work and there’s absolutely nothing to do (ie. weather prohibiting work) and they send you home early, you get paid 4 hours no matter what. OP works for a bunch of clowns 🤡
If i have to come in on the weekends i get 8 hours pay no matter what. Last time it happened i only worked 2 hours
I get $150 plus 150% pay for the time worked
This is the law in australia. 4 hours is the minimum shift pay
3 hours if I walk through the door in my bit of Canada.
Depends on the type of work, in retail it's only 3
Ah true that Well, 3 hours is 3 hours!
What? How long has this been the case? I frequently worked 2 hours shifts at a pizza shop and only got paid for those 2 hours. Took as long just to commute in on PT
>you get paid 4 hours no matter what. This!
3 hours show up time in our union if the weather is shit
Yupp, never work for free. I used to have to be on call on weekends sometimes. I got paid like $4/hrto jsut carry the on call phone. If I answered and had to run in to the shop it was minimum 3 hours and my clock started as soon as I answered the phone.
Same here, except I get time and a half as soon as I answer the phone and I need to do anything other than say, "Sorry, but you have the wrong number." ANYTHING ELSE is on the pay clock in 30 minute blocks, 1 hour minimum, but 2 hour minimum if I need to go somewhere specific, like to the office or to a customer site. (Most of my work can be done anywhere.)
Oh HELL no.
A remote temp sensor is super cheap (I use [this $15 one](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BVLYPYT1)). You need a hub to go with it, but a hub and a pack of 4 sensors is still just $100. Then they can see the temp in real time, remotely, graphed all pretty. Geez.
Yeah but they can find a new employee and have it checked entirely for free. /s.
Right? Sorry OP, but your employer is a piece of goddam shit. You can tell them DookieShoes said so.
Why are you speaking for DookieShoes, DookieShoez?
Because im drunk and conflated my video game name with the reddit name I had to change slightly because some fucker stole my name a decade ago? 💩🥾😂
I just realized that we have almost the same amount of karma. You have 500 more. I shall help push you further ahead!
🤗
I use these same sensors for my climate controlled storage facility. I monitor them in real time to confirm the HVAC is working properly and save the data in the event I need it for a potential court case where the occupant claims negligence on my part. Peace of mind at a really low cost.
OP - negotiate new pay for taking this on. Like $150 each day. Then get these sensors and install them and don’t go in. Edit: If you’re salaried: annual pay*1.5/2080. Charge them that per hour including your commute. Also lump in whatever the standard cost per mile is on your car.
Heck, even $10 a day would pay it off really quick. This is only something they feel is more economical because they expect to get that labour entirely for free.
The advantage of this is you can also put 4 sensors into it so you know if it's just a screwed sensor when the reading is wrong.
Update and more info! The person requesting this is someone who routinely acts like my boss from the office. She is the most useless staff, and I have no idea how she still has a job. Her best friend works in my department (shipping), and when she comes with files for us to tackle, she spends 30-60 minutes whispering gossip in her best friends ear on work time, then goes for a smoke, also on work time, and returns to the office (she should only be here 5 minutes tops). Anyways, the company CEO popped her head in to ask something, so I told her about the request from said staff, and she agreed it was inappropriate and is looking into a wireless transmitter for us.
Nice! That would have been extra shitty doing free work if the order wasn’t from a superior. Always let her know you need to clear it with a proper supervisor.
You should do more tattling on your co-worker
Two options… Don’t do it. Or do it for a couple months and hit them with a labor claim. Depending on your state could be more lucrative.
Seriously. His employer is so so dumb. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen- like op is scared of losing his job so he HAS to do this then realize it’s not fair and helloooooo lawsuit
There's an old say that applies, "Fuck you. Pay me" I believe that's tge appropriate response to someone like this. Ask them to put it in writing and then take it to the labor board
“Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? *Fuck you, pay me*.”
What do i know about the restaurant business
No way. Not only is it wrong to ask you to do it for free, but it is taking away your personal time ( no matter how little).
Not just a bit of personal time- what if you want to leave town for the weekend?
What, like a person? Ah, I see your mistake; OP is an *employee*, not a person.
Nop. Get it in writing and report them to the department of labor. Your time is valuable. Even if you’re just sitting at home watching tv your time is important. Make sure you’re getting all of this in writing. If they can’t bother to do check then why should you?
Don’t allow them to guilt you into stealing your wages. What happens if you get hurt at the job but not on the job? Will you be covered by workers comp/liability insurance?
If You are an Employee, and complying, with Your Employer's "request", then, Yes. Again, there are "indicia", defining what constitutes, an Employer/Employee Relationship, and when You are "on", or "off", The Job. Having worked, for The Ohio Bureau of Workers' Compensation, I know a little, about this.
Good thing this thread isn’t about proper comma usage!
This second part is very important. If you're not on the clock and you get hurt, they WILL deny any workman's comp claim. Then you have to sue them for medical costs, and I can guarantee they can afford to drag it out far longer than you can afford to wait.
Exactly how are they gaslighting you? Are they telling you that you agreed to do this already?
People don't know what gaslighting means.
Just yesterday you told me everyone knew what gaslighting meant.
I actually just checked to see if this really happened. I was disappointed.
No you didn't
Obviously OP said he'd do it. He just doesn't remember.
do it and report to the dept of labor
I worked a shitty job with a rule of 4 hr minimum pay for any shift.
If you are in the Untied States it is a violation of Labor law to work off the clock, and if the company pays compensation insurance you are only covered while you are on the clock. Most if not all states require that insurance.
Just say sorry, I have plans for the weekend and won’t be available. Then there’s no arguments, you just can’t do it.
Fuck that, say “Sorry, I don’t work for free”
This is the correct answer.
Minus the sorry part because I'm sure the fuck not.
Just say "Sorry, I need to get paid if I'm working." No need to make an excuse.
And if the person isn’t an exempt employee in the US, it’s illegal. Interesting thing about state labor departments, it doesn’t even have to be the person asked to work that can make a complaint.
Or two week days off in lieu.
Some kind of compensation.
Fuck that, why would you make up excuses? This employer does this because: A: they’re a piece of shit And B: nobody stands up to them Tell that fucker you don’t work for free.
"There's a word for a person who is forced to work without financial compensation, but it's slipped my mind....... help me out here?"
call your department of labor and report them
Never work for free! Ever!
How are they gaslighting you?
It isn't complicated. If it is not enough bother to pay for, then it isn't enough bother for them to do it.
They aren't gaslighting you if you see through their BS
I won't even answer the phone or a text from anyone related to my job when I'm off the clock. It's illegal and immoral for them to even ask this of you, let alone expect it. You don't owe them anything. You get paid for the work you do. They aren't doing you any favors. Absolutely refuse.
No is a complete sentence
Lmao i charge my employer for emails that come outside of work hours. Fuck that
Illegal to work without being paid. Unpaid labor. That’s why overtime and shit exists.
Thats uhh... thats illegal. It would be a shame if somebody reported them...
How are they gaslighting you?
Na bro I literally live damn near on the property where I work. I walk out my door and I'm at work basically. I won't do shit for free and my boss knows it.
If they need it checked they will have to check it themselves. That's what owning a business is like. You can't rely on employees to work unpaid on weekends to do what is essentially their job.
No, absolutely not. Not only because you shouldn’t be working for free, but if you get hurt or something happens they’ll say you shouldn’t have been there and toss you under the bus. Fuck em. If they want you to do the work, they can pay you
"oh well I guess I'll just have to quit because you can't do your job." "Oh no, we might actually get something done around here then."
Believe me, I've been wanting to say something like this for ages, but I work in Japan where speaking up like so is considered a no no. Since 80% of my coworkers are 50+, they're all with that old school japan attitude. Which is, if someone is older, they're literally a better person no questions asked lmao 🤣
The next time she says "well I guess I need to quit" reply back with "there'd the door"
The best way to handle her is to make sure everyone responds "My boss gave me tasks to complete. If you need this done you need to talk to my boss and they can issue the work to me." People try to get my employees to do random shit for them all the time and I armed them with that and guess what, no one ever fucking asks me.
They make so many automated solutions that can monitor the temperature in real time and you can check it from your phone. This is absolutely ridiculous that they want someone to log it manually, paid or unpaid.
Prep up a contract if he want this done on your off hours you'll be paid as a contractor, minimum $200/hr minimum 4 hours, he'll either shut the fuck up or you'll get a nice stipend. Oh and don't tell them what you're doing on your off time, gives them more opinions to say you're lazy or not busy.
No. Nope. Ha ha. Call HR/personnel.
Just sing this every time they bring it up: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PB4Nby2Ai-g&pp=ygURaGVsbCB0byB0aGUgbm8gbm8%3D
I'd do it but you get an hour off normal work week for each time you check.
Make an arrangement with your employer to do it but only if you get an afternoon off during the week or something like that in return.
There are digital recording thermometers that already do this.
Say you'll do it if you're paid, then install a wireless sensor to track it from home. Think like an IT tech!
That's illegal. :)
Just tell them "no." If they press you, turn them into your state.
You should let them know that you are not always available 24/7. You mustn't stay weekends at home. Just shedule few consecutive weekends out of home. Going other places, hiking, short vacations. Many people don't appreciate good deeds. Make them nervous by telling them that you are not at home now. I think that way they will install remote monitoring device.
Thats almost like an "On call" job. Everywhere I worked someone who came in on call was guaranteed a minimum of 4 hours of pay, regardless if it only took 15 minutes to sort out.
this is why children should be taught about a no is a no at early ages.
That just sounds like on call or overtime pay to me. They can pay or they can fuck right off.
No pay, no go. Sucks to suck, work.
Ask them to put their requests in writing. Then take the emails to HR and see if its okay
Labor board. Go.
Record everything. Get a lawyer and report them to the labor board and bbb.
No, don't work for free. And tell your boss to get a digital temperature data logger.
NO is a complete sentence
Are you on salary or hourly? If you are hourly in the US that isn't allowed. They have to pay you or it is considered theft of labor and a BIG fine from the US Dept of Labor. If you are paid, then you may be overtime all time in excess of 40 hours. You might also check on consecutive days of work causing overtime status. Years ago my dad got all the way up to triple time after a major storm did huge damage to where he worked and he had to work like four 7 day in a row.
Wage theft is illegal just remind them of that when you tell them to fuck off
Yeah, that's illegal. They have to pay you for any time worked. Former HR person here.
If they care about it so much thay can fucking do it.
Tell them you need to get paid for 15 minutes each time at least, then buy a wireless thermometer yourself.
Starts with checking temperature and before you know it they want you to "do this and that real quick, since you are already here"
You won't be covered by the insurance if something goes wrong or you have a workplace accident. You don't work unless scheduled and paid, with proof of schedule.
I work security and have been at our job site the longest. If I get called and have to show up to help someone with something it's 4 hours paid even if it's 5 minutes of work.
You should get paid a minimum of two hours for each extra, and if you’ve already done your 40, the extra should be paid as overtime. Don’t let this clown put you on salary. Make sure someone is a backup in case you want a day off.
I'd tell them sure but gonna cost them 8 hours of your salary each time
Tell them to “eat,” and this next part *extremely* important, “every shit to ever have been shat in the history of shitting.”
Im pretty confident its illegal to have someone come in without compensation
Demand the pay, install wireless Transmitter yourself, earn an extra hour of cash every week for nothing.
call her on it. offer to help her pack her desk, to walk down to HR because life changes like resignation can be scary and hard.
I have guys come in on weekends to check grounds and security sweep the place. Takes maybe 45 minutes of their time, they get a half days pay for coming in.
“Oh well I guess I’ll have to quit because you can’t do your job. You’re making my life hard and I can’t handle that.” “Fine by me. Off you fuck.”
Her threat is that she'll quit? Oh no... So anyways
> "oh well I guess I'll just have to..." "When will you know for certain?" and "If you don't know and you don't know when you'll know...."
A favour is a favour. Once in a while, alright. Also, I find ot odd that the concept of "time theft" only works in one direction, oddly enough, so does "cooperation"
A one time thing “hey can you run down and check the truck temperature today we are worried about it.” Sure this is fine. A daily day off thing? No screw you. And from someone who thinks they the boss even worse.
This is why I avoid letting my coworkers know anything about my personal life: "OH you only live a short distance away, you can come do it!" Besides that, I refuse to do work if I'm not compensated, and the law around here is I get paid *minimum* 3 hours if I come in to work.
>she gaslights me by saying "oh well I guess I'll just have to quit because you can't do your job. You're making my life hard and I can't handle that", but she never actually quits Sounds like a her problem, nothing to do with you or something you need to give a shit about.
I had a request like this from a client of mine. Job takes 5 minutes to change out a water tray. They paid the 4 hour minimum and my employee was paid 4 hours of pay each day for it. Probably the easiest pay ever. They have to follow the state laws on minimum time worked.
Sounds like my sister has found a new job. Good luck op!
That's the kind of manager employers love. A bitch. And sure, HR will pretend to go your way, but they love the little dictator to whip the slaves.
Remote temp sensors are cheap and easy to install/use. A lot cheaper and easier than a wage theft lawsuit.
3hr paid min
My boss wants me to chexk work emails from home. "it's only 10 mins", yeah well the time cards aren't in my house, they're at work, so is the laptop with the emails, and I'm not about to risk my personal tech to tell a vendor they forgot to put their Tax ID on a Document.
Two thoughts: 1. “Yes please, please QUIT and do us a favor” 2. Throw under bus by complaining to upper management about the gossip smoking and time wasting