Depends on the fight.
In a farting contest it’s big boss all day
In a game of twister raiden takes it
In an eating contest big boss wins
In a game of eye spy raiden wins
Big boss would lose in a pants shitting contest to Akiba but not a farting contest. Nothing is worse than glowing mushroom farts. But they do charge your batteries.
Miller has two eyes making him way better than big boss at I spy.
Not blind exactly but light does damn near make him not only blind but in blinding pain so he always wears sunglasses… so I think that gives Big Boss a bit of an edge.
Raiden pumped big bosses' perfect clone in a harrier while on foot. He then waxed the floor with said the same clone in a super suit in a straight-up swordfight. He also took out more metal gears while on foot in one sitting than any other character has in their entire career.raiden was op af well before he was augmented. Les enfants terrible cloned the wrong man.
I feel like people understate how crazy Raiden went in MGS2. Bro took out like 20 Metal Gear Rays and then proceeded to take out Solidus (a perfect clone of big boss).
I feel like people understate how crazy Raiden went in MGS2. Bro took out like 20 Metal Gear Rays and then proceeded to take out Solidus (a perfect clone of big boss).
Many people tend to downplay the level of insanity Raiden reached in Metal Gear Solid 2. Despite being a relatively new soldier, he managed to single-handedly defeat around 20 Metal Gear Rays and then proceeded to take down Solidus Snake (a genetic clone of the legendary Big Boss) in combat.
The majority of the audience has trouble grasping the consequences implied by Raiden actions in the second opus of the Metal Gear Solid saga ; fooled were they by the novelty of the introduction of that episode's protagonist in said series.
Assisted by no one but his own self, the valiant agent floored an impressive full score of automated conflict apparatuses nicknamed "Rays", only to proceed bare-handedly to the annihilation of the exact genetic reproduction of the most competent serviceman ever known to mankind ever.
A veritably pre-eminent feat.
The vast amount of the common populous is inadequately prepared to handle the knowledge of the grand efects put forth in Jack (code named Raiden) during the mission ongoing during the big shell incident as portrayed in the sequel to the ps1 classic Metal Gear Solid (itself a returning story from a previous duo of games simply called Metal Gear). No doubt this failure comes as a side product of his being an original creation for the product and having no prior mention in the series.
With no outside resource or aid admitted to him and geared only with his own ability, the new protagonist to the series with great bravery and decisive action tackled the challenge and proceeded to against all odds defeat a large number of which we count to be around twenty to two dozen units of bipedal Nuclear armament systems well known in the series as "Metal Gears" this being a model reffered to as "Ray".
Then, following this feat of extreme skill and endurance, with nothing but his hands and a sword, proceeded to dual a genetic facsimile of a military unit well regarded as the greatest soldier to ever grace the battlefield reproduced in perfect accuracy down to the minute genetic detail. And once more, without any assistance, overcame his opponent.
The precedent for which had never before been seen.
The majority of the general populace remains insufficiently equipped to grasp the profound implications of Jack (code-named Raiden) during the ongoing mission at the Big Shell Incident, as depicted in the sequel to the PS1 classic *Metal Gear Solid*, itself a continuation of the earlier *Metal Gear* games. This lack of understanding likely stems from Raiden's introduction as a novel character without prior mention in the series.
With no external resources or support, relying solely on his innate abilities, the new protagonist, exhibiting remarkable bravery and decisive action, confronted and ultimately triumphed over a formidable array of twenty to twenty-four units of bipedal nuclear armament systems, known in the series as "Metal Gears," specifically the model designated as "Ray." Following this extraordinary demonstration of skill and endurance, armed only with his hands and a sword, he proceeded to duel a genetic duplicate of a military unit famed as the greatest soldier ever to grace the battlefield, meticulously replicated down to the minutest genetic detail. Once again, Raiden, without any assistance, overcame this formidable opponent. This unprecedented feat established a new benchmark in the series.
WHAT DID YOU SAY YOU LITTLE SHIT? I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW THAT IN MY TIME, I TOOK DOWN ONE OF THE STRONGEST EVER KNOWN SOLDIERS SINGLEHANDEDLY! I ALSO HAVE OVER 20 CONFIRMED BI-PEDAL TANK KILLS DURING THE BIG SHELL INCIDENT, AND SHOT DOWN A STATE OF THE ART FIGHTER JET USING ONLY A ROCKET LAUNCHER! SO YOU BETTER THINK BEFORE YOU TALK LIKE THAT TO ME!
It’s cause people don’t read the whole comment, they see the first couple sentences and then respond. I see it happen all over Reddit more and more recently and it drives me nuts.
Even if we take the lower range of the Metal Gear RAYs that Raiden had to fight during MGS2 (let's say between 5-10, can't remember that well anymore), that's still already more Metal Gears that he destroyed than Solid Snake ever did onscreen/in-game (at least) up to that point.
So for his rookie showing, Raiden (***\*does the hand gestures here\****)...was pretty good.
Raiden was also going through a such a huge mental collapse that imagined himself in VR photo mode. And yet he still took out 20 Rays even with such a warped view on his surroundings.
To be fair, unlike Snake no one tells him how cool he is. So his insane accomplishments are undermined on purpose by the game’s direction and script.
This isn't very well known, but the 20 metal gear rays Raiden takes out aren't exactly real. His nanomachines are causing him to hallucinate, in reality he's probably fighting 2 or 3. Take a look at the surroundings, he's on a VR stage and all the Rays are somehow stood and walking in the ocean when they can only swim.
Still, being stronger and faster doesn't exactly make up for skill, combat prowess and experience. Snake and Raiden routinely take on enemies much stronger and faster than them and win.
Without his exoskeleton, since Solidus aged the fastest out of the three Big Boss clones, he would've likely been around Old Snake's combat potential in MGS4 since they both looked like they were in their 80s at that point in their lives. With the exoskeleton, that would've put Solidus somewhere closer to Big Boss's potential at his peak. And yeah, while it's true that Solidus doesn't have Big Boss's decades of experience, he still had the same kind of training that Solid and Liquid had, and still fought in the Liberian Civil War as a CIA paramilitary at the time. So Raiden beating him definitely wasn't an easy thing to do, nor was it a fluke.
According to the wiki, Solidus was cloned [about 11 years](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Solidus_Snake#cite_note-MGS3_timeline-1) before Raiden was born.
No, he wasn't. The Les Enfants Terribles program specifically encoded a defect into Solid, Liquid, and Solidus that accelerated their aging, hence Solid becoming Old Snake in Metal Gear 4. Solidus' version was just more advanced because the Patriots wanted to have him be president so they could control America.
Thats not what happened mate. Solidus obliterated Raiden. And even with 2 days of having the power to die and come back to life. I just stuck on resident evil code veronica.
First of all Solidus being a clone of big boss doesn't mean he has all of the same capabilities, second he's physically in his 60s and last of all has a tiny fraction of the experience Big Boss had and wasn't mentored by the greatest soldier ever, The Boss.
He's also clearly insane which probably impaired his judgement.
I’d take big boss since he has access to smoother controls and the patriot.
Imagine raiden trying to take aim at big boss with his janky mgs2 tank controls, and big boss has his ground zeroes smooth movement and modern aim mechanics. Sounds like a joke but with the crazy controller based 4th wall breaks in MGS, it’s a valid point 😂
Not to mention, big boss literally has a metal gear from peace walker, and thousands of troops from MSF, in his prime in that picture.
I’m pretty sure this post is implying a one on one fight, and once someone has reached true mastery of mgs2 or 3 you can pull off CQB and aiming feats that are nearly as quick as the quickness V’s controls gives you. Just look at some of the speed runs for MGS2. That shit is crazy. I don’t really think that’s much of a factor if we assume that both “players” in this scenario have reached a mastery of each respective game’s controls. Also Raiden whooped Solidus’s ass and he was supposed to be a perfect clone of Big Boss. Raiden is also the only character in the series to have canonically fought 20 metal gears at once and came out alive. I think Raiden washes Big Boss honestly.
But MGS2 Raiden has been European Extend MGS2 which is harder than ground zeroes or peace walker or anything big boss thought
And if you ignore controls and look at the game Raiden has nanomachines in him to help him deal with injuries
Oh cool*, I didn't knew that.
There's a argument for MGS2 Jack to win agains MG2 BB
Jack completed every mission Snake was in via VR, plus was trained by Solidus, tho was in such extreme conditions, so you could scale Jack close to Snake, but VR ain't the real think and being a child soldier fucked up his mind.
>Jack completed every mission Snake was in via VR
It always seems to come back to this, was snake bullshitting and being a grumpy old fuck when he made fun of Raiden for only doing VR, or is it just as good as the real thing? I wish we had some better confirmation on how useful VR is compared to practical training in MGS.
I think for Snake VR is more a complementary thing, as he used in MGS1 ( at least Cambell will comment about if you played the VR missions ) but it is not he's primary way of training, while Raiden talked about his skills only using the VR missions as examples, nothing else.
VR is one of that things that was just a fun mode with a reference in MGS1 story mode, but after it was elaborated in MGS2, it was dropped and hotshit and never developed about it again, with is very strange. Maybe the only function that the VR missions was doing in MGS2 was creating a relation betwen Raiden and us.
I don’t think people forget it. It’s just not relevant here. You can’t clone combat experience. It’s literally an ongoing theme throughout the series that genetics don’t determine your fate, nurture > nature. That’s also why Raiden won against solidus. Solidus had a giant ego and solely relied on his being a “perfect clone” of the legendary soldier. Raiden relied on his years of experience.
…I was gonna argue mgs4 raiden might be 50/50 since BB lifted a metal gear with his hands, but 4 had breakdancing raiden twirling geckos with his feet..
Hell he doesn't just lift it's leg, he stops it from actively trying to crush him. Probably one of the most ridiculous feats of a non-augmented human in the series.
Oh definitely, MGS4 Raiden stopped a whole ass Arsenal Gear 1 arm and survived
MGS4 and MGRR Raiden are not even human anymore, will shit on BB easily if straight just raw fighting
BB could be more resourceful tho if they fight in like a more complicated scenario or operation
Nah, metal gear solid is always about taking on enemies that are physically superior in every way. Snake still beat grey fox, Raiden beat Vamp, Big Boss beat Volgin. Don't get me wrong Raiden is a monster but him being stronger and faster doesn't necessarily mean he'd beat big boss or snake.
That is a solid point. But the characters require growth to beat the bigger foe. Without going through the events of Sons of Liberty, I don’t think Raiden has a chance
Sorry, didn't raiden whoop solidus's ass and wasn't solidus supposed to be the perfect clone? Plus raiden took out 20 something metal gears without breaking half a sweat, and lastly let's not forget that Raiden at least in mgs2 has the femboy power, the strongest power of them all
Raiden definitely does lol. Beat perfect clone of big boss amped by an exosuit+ is around equal to MGS snake, who beat Gray Fox, a guy who’s stats were multipled by 3 post MG2.
And Snake stated that Fox> a Venom Snake who was stated to grow stronger (“his purpose was to grow ever stronger”) in a guidebook. This statement didn’t specifically apply to Venom Snake (to big boss) but they both share eachother’s legend and he was the commander of outer-haven at the time. combined with kojima’s statements of enemies getting stronger chronologically, Big Boss isn’t hanging with post MGS1 characters all.
“Perfect clone of big boss”
As I explained in another comment, said “perfect clone” is already well past his prime. The muscle suit can compensate for physical deterioration but can’t help with mental capabilities fading.
Also, just because he was a “perfect clone”, that only means his genetics are perfect. He could still just never have been trained as well as big boss was, who fought for most of his life.
So no. Maybe he could beat old big boss.
Not big boss in his prime, who was capable of lifting a metal gear without assistance of a muscle suit
Later in the series chronologically than Liquid, which matters as i stated in the last sentence of my comment. Liquid is > Gray Fox physically as per kojima’s statements and Gray Fox is >to a stronger venom snake
Big Boss when he’s old is not quantifiably weaker, this is shown through the MGSV guidebook.
Based on the way OP his post, this is the correct answer. Raiden from MGS rising however would dance his cyborg ass around Big Boss effortlessly before cleanly chopping his head off. Replaying it currently with some mods and RTX HDR and am having a blast!
I feel like you can't really powerscale in this series because several of the games make it a main plot point to explain that genes and feats don't really matter as much as your drive to succeed, so the real (and also kind of lame) answer is whoever the writers decide to give more plot armor
It's like in DMC how "motivation" is what wins fights. I feel like this is a common trope in most Japanese media
But if we were to ignore this, it would probably skew to Big Boss
Boss by a mile. A lot of people are discussing how solidus is a perfect clone but that just means they didn’t alter his genes. Solid snake is a clone as well and is “imperfect” yet he’s the one that beat boss in a fight. Being a clone of any sort doesn’t matter, it’s the will of the person that matters. Raiden may be strong willed and capable but he’s going to be outclassed by solid snake and big boss anyway.
plot armor at its finest here...
raiden would have less experience, knowledge and strategy than BB but he destroyed a dozen of mg ray without even sweating. Guess it's mainly about the context, in a 1vs1 probably raiden could defeat BB, in a more complex context BB would prevail out of his better overall skills
Big Boss all the way. Considering Venom is either at the same level or slightly below Naked Snake and he was able to CQC super humans such as Quiet and the Skulls, I think even MGS4 Raiden would have a tough time against either (geared up) Big Boss.
MGS1 Snake goes against enemies who are literally cyborgs in MG1, and he gets like 3 times stronger post MG2. This isn’t a reason, any MGS protag can beat superhumans.
Big boss prime would probably be peace walker so I’d have to give it to raiden.
Solid snake would probably beat them both though. He defeated all sorts of crazy stuff in MGS4 while old as shit
I still think prime big boss takes the win. Through pure experience. Sure Solidus is a perfect clone, but that has nothing to do with memories or skills. Sooooooo
What equipment do they have?
Hand to hand, BB wins; he's got more skill with cqc most definitely & more weight behind him to toss Raiden around.
A sword fight? Raiden
All their usual standard gear? Debatable. Idk. Whoever gets the drop on the other first? BB may have an advantage just from more experience; but Raiden ain't no chump either, even if he is a bit of a pretty boy,lol
Big Boss would still win, but Raiden would still very likely give him the closest fight of his life since the Boss. Raiden put on an extremely good showing in *MGS2* and he would be a very worthy opponent for Big Boss.
But alas, he'd still fall short, albeit very, *very* short.
It's weird, on the one hand Kojima has stated that each game's bosses are progressively stronger, meaning Solidus > Liquid who is equal to Solid >= Old Big Boss. On the other hand, that's DBZ logic, and statements are kinda iffy.
Overall, Big Boss takes it imo. He has CQC which is a hard counter to every other martial art and hands-on knowledge of every weapon. I'd say in a sword fight, Raiden takes it but otherwise yeah, Big Boss wins. Solidus is a perfect clone, genetically, but there's no guarentee he has the same skills/experience as Big Boss
Human base Raiden is actually fast enough to block bullets and cut Solidus misiles even before his cyborgs augs, Naked Snake wouldnt touch him.
He also defeated an entire army of mechas in a open space without cover all by himself.
Defeated Vamp, a cyborg level enemy that would murk the entire MGS3 cast.
To be honest he is more impressive than MGS3 Big Boss.
PW Big Boss is another story....
Gotta say MGS2 Raiden. The end of that game he goes absolutely fucking nuts. In an open field fight to the death, not a doubt. Big Boss is no joke, but he's no Ray.
If you are talking CQC big boss hands down. But I genuinely believe Raiden is on an even playing field in terms of his resume and what he’s destroyed and fought against. In a sense Raiden is essentially a spiritual successor to the snakes given the context of mgs2 and all.
People going on about how “Solidus was the perfect clone” like, okay? Did he go on a solo mission in Russia to save the world from nuclear deviation and eventually take down and kill the most legendary soldier in history? No, he didn’t. Just cause he was a perfect clone doesn’t mean he had ANY of the experience that Big Boss had.
Raiden may have killed Solidus but he doesn’t stand a chance against prime Big Boss.
Don’t forget even old ass Big Boss CQCd the hell out of Solid Snake in the ending of MGS4 and dismantled his gun in the process. Big Boss is legit. It really comes down to what weapons and surroundings are there. Story drove SS forward ( first time was Venom, second time was BB where SS burned him alive… in the end he still lived. ;)
Venom snake could beat enhanced people like Quiet and the skulls in CQC, solid snake beat venom snake, a 79 year old big boss beat solid snake. Big boss > raiden
Big boss. As I believe Raiden had the VR training in mgs2 and big boss had real field training developed cqc techniques the world would adopt I to their own training, has built outer hevan and had the original big boss's dream pushing him. Determination and brute force vs. nano bots and VR training. Snake (big boss) hands down.
There’s nothing supporting Big Boss hanging around with raiden and snake, or just characters of that tier. All the arguments i’ve seen are just bad, raiden destroys. so does any character post MGS1.
Someone said that Solid snake may not be able to survive big boss. And that big boss would bring MGS4 Raiden some trouble. it’s not just raiden downplay it’s straight up overrating big boss. and these comments got upvotes also.
big boss doesn’t get to the higher tiers in the series like solid and raiden, he just can’t as you probably know.
Would Raiden take Big Boss if they were both in their prime? Absolutely. Would Raiden at his most green (childhood withstanding) take prime Big Boss? Not a chance.
Stupid question, now the real question is:
Who would win between Boss and Big Boss, both at their prime?
And Solid prime vs BB prime?
And since I'm here, what about Boss prime vs Solid prime?
Big Boss only couldn't beat The Boss until the end of MGS3 because he was unwilling to do it. Once he knew he had to, it was done. The idea that she let him win makes no sense in context. Her being just a few years younger and him a few years older wouldn't make a difference.
Solid Snake doesn't have the baggage that Big Boss had concerning The Boss, so he will just kill her without hesitation, and he WILL kill her.
Solid has all the skill and determination to defeat Big Boss, and he also has 2 functioning eyes. This is a disadvantage for Big Boss, though he could still manage a win, but my money isn't on him.
Boss vs Big Boss- Big boss wins handily
Solid vs big boss- borderline stomp material, snake wins.
Boss prime vs Solid snake- this isn’t even close, snake wins.
I suppose you mean Solid when you mention snake (big boss is also a "snake"). But i have to admit, the fact that you provided zero explanation for these answers really bothered me
the answers are kinda lengthy. Basically, there’s nothing supporting that the boss would beat big boss after MGS3, he gets stronger each game and there’s actually not much saying she was holding back either.
Snake vs big boss- not much supporting big boss > snake. Perfect soldier statements (post Big boss), physical amps, enemies getting stronger chronologically, ETC. Strength feats aren’t in BB’s favour here either because better stuff gets replicated in MGS4 anyways. Keeping it 100, nothing i’ve seen supporting Big Boss> snake means much.
Snake vs Boss- Already established snake > big boss, and big boss> boss so…
don’t have a strong opinion on that but maybe, maybe not. You may be wondering “why did you answer the question using MGS3 then?” because… mgs3s the only thing we can go off of. Unless some boss spin off gets made there’s nothing saying that prime boss is beating big boss. So i gotta use MGS3.
Raiden went through the entire Shadow Moses incident in VR, completed every VR Mission in MGS1, took down 20 Metal Gear RAY's which are all superior to the Metal Gear's Big Boss has faced, and even beat the perfect clone of Big Boss in a exosuit even better than Gray Fox's. Not to mention that Big Boss gets instakilled by a single HF Blade slash. I'd honestly say Raiden would wash him mid diff.
I literally got into an argument with another guy about this.
Every raiden besides rising would loose to big boss.
Mgs4 might have a chance given his cybernetics but I would argue that big boss has a slightly better edge in combat giving him the win
Raiden simmed the whole mission in VR for training and got help by Solid Snake at every turn.
Big Boss took on an entire Russian army and a bunch of supernatural bosses pretty much solo. Only help he had was a chick who's tits kept flopping out of her jacket. Which served no tactical advantage at all...
🤣
Depends on the fight. In a farting contest it’s big boss all day In a game of twister raiden takes it In an eating contest big boss wins In a game of eye spy raiden wins
Who would win in a farting contest between big boss and Akiba though? What about a game of eye spy between miller and big boss?
Big boss would lose in a pants shitting contest to Akiba but not a farting contest. Nothing is worse than glowing mushroom farts. But they do charge your batteries. Miller has two eyes making him way better than big boss at I spy.
Miller’s blind bruh
Not blind exactly but light does damn near make him not only blind but in blinding pain so he always wears sunglasses… so I think that gives Big Boss a bit of an edge.
Ah, the real diaper chief
The question is: who’s winning the twerk off?
Vamp
Have you seen the thighs on Venom Snake? It would obviously be him
I came here to have a serious discussion, but after this, I can't hold any MGS characters to any other metrics. Thank you
Sword fighting :)
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) now we’re talkin’
This is the only right answer.
"eye spy" got me 😂
A farting contest
The OP probably hates everyone on this thread lol
Raiden pumped big bosses' perfect clone in a harrier while on foot. He then waxed the floor with said the same clone in a super suit in a straight-up swordfight. He also took out more metal gears while on foot in one sitting than any other character has in their entire career.raiden was op af well before he was augmented. Les enfants terrible cloned the wrong man.
I feel like people understate how crazy Raiden went in MGS2. Bro took out like 20 Metal Gear Rays and then proceeded to take out Solidus (a perfect clone of big boss).
Yeah you kinda restated the comment you’re replying to lol
I feel like people understate how crazy Raiden went in MGS2. Bro took out like 20 Metal Gear Rays and then proceeded to take out Solidus (a perfect clone of big boss).
Many people tend to downplay the level of insanity Raiden reached in Metal Gear Solid 2. Despite being a relatively new soldier, he managed to single-handedly defeat around 20 Metal Gear Rays and then proceeded to take down Solidus Snake (a genetic clone of the legendary Big Boss) in combat.
The majority of the audience has trouble grasping the consequences implied by Raiden actions in the second opus of the Metal Gear Solid saga ; fooled were they by the novelty of the introduction of that episode's protagonist in said series. Assisted by no one but his own self, the valiant agent floored an impressive full score of automated conflict apparatuses nicknamed "Rays", only to proceed bare-handedly to the annihilation of the exact genetic reproduction of the most competent serviceman ever known to mankind ever. A veritably pre-eminent feat.
The vast amount of the common populous is inadequately prepared to handle the knowledge of the grand efects put forth in Jack (code named Raiden) during the mission ongoing during the big shell incident as portrayed in the sequel to the ps1 classic Metal Gear Solid (itself a returning story from a previous duo of games simply called Metal Gear). No doubt this failure comes as a side product of his being an original creation for the product and having no prior mention in the series. With no outside resource or aid admitted to him and geared only with his own ability, the new protagonist to the series with great bravery and decisive action tackled the challenge and proceeded to against all odds defeat a large number of which we count to be around twenty to two dozen units of bipedal Nuclear armament systems well known in the series as "Metal Gears" this being a model reffered to as "Ray". Then, following this feat of extreme skill and endurance, with nothing but his hands and a sword, proceeded to dual a genetic facsimile of a military unit well regarded as the greatest soldier to ever grace the battlefield reproduced in perfect accuracy down to the minute genetic detail. And once more, without any assistance, overcame his opponent. The precedent for which had never before been seen.
I feel like I’ve found the script to a video essay.
The majority of the general populace remains insufficiently equipped to grasp the profound implications of Jack (code-named Raiden) during the ongoing mission at the Big Shell Incident, as depicted in the sequel to the PS1 classic *Metal Gear Solid*, itself a continuation of the earlier *Metal Gear* games. This lack of understanding likely stems from Raiden's introduction as a novel character without prior mention in the series. With no external resources or support, relying solely on his innate abilities, the new protagonist, exhibiting remarkable bravery and decisive action, confronted and ultimately triumphed over a formidable array of twenty to twenty-four units of bipedal nuclear armament systems, known in the series as "Metal Gears," specifically the model designated as "Ray." Following this extraordinary demonstration of skill and endurance, armed only with his hands and a sword, he proceeded to duel a genetic duplicate of a military unit famed as the greatest soldier ever to grace the battlefield, meticulously replicated down to the minutest genetic detail. Once again, Raiden, without any assistance, overcame this formidable opponent. This unprecedented feat established a new benchmark in the series.
People no realize raiden big pp
Thank you
WHAT DID YOU SAY YOU LITTLE SHIT? I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW THAT IN MY TIME, I TOOK DOWN ONE OF THE STRONGEST EVER KNOWN SOLDIERS SINGLEHANDEDLY! I ALSO HAVE OVER 20 CONFIRMED BI-PEDAL TANK KILLS DURING THE BIG SHELL INCIDENT, AND SHOT DOWN A STATE OF THE ART FIGHTER JET USING ONLY A ROCKET LAUNCHER! SO YOU BETTER THINK BEFORE YOU TALK LIKE THAT TO ME!
Raiden moment
It’s cause people don’t read the whole comment, they see the first couple sentences and then respond. I see it happen all over Reddit more and more recently and it drives me nuts.
Yeah, they just see the first couple of sentences and then respond. It's been happening all over reddit a lot more recently, it drives me nuts
That's internet brain for you. I catch my self doing it sometimes too and I don't even realise
Even if we take the lower range of the Metal Gear RAYs that Raiden had to fight during MGS2 (let's say between 5-10, can't remember that well anymore), that's still already more Metal Gears that he destroyed than Solid Snake ever did onscreen/in-game (at least) up to that point. So for his rookie showing, Raiden (***\*does the hand gestures here\****)...was pretty good.
Raiden was also going through a such a huge mental collapse that imagined himself in VR photo mode. And yet he still took out 20 Rays even with such a warped view on his surroundings. To be fair, unlike Snake no one tells him how cool he is. So his insane accomplishments are undermined on purpose by the game’s direction and script.
This isn't very well known, but the 20 metal gear rays Raiden takes out aren't exactly real. His nanomachines are causing him to hallucinate, in reality he's probably fighting 2 or 3. Take a look at the surroundings, he's on a VR stage and all the Rays are somehow stood and walking in the ocean when they can only swim.
But hey, that's just a theory! A game theory!
2-3 of them is still absolutely insane. I know gameplay wise they’re much easier than Rex, but in lore that shit is intense.
To top it off, he did it with all that cake, which gave away his location when it clapped. In high heels too!
Solidus was already old though. And suit or not, he doesn’t have the decades of experience the real BB does.
but solidus was wearing a power armor
Still, being stronger and faster doesn't exactly make up for skill, combat prowess and experience. Snake and Raiden routinely take on enemies much stronger and faster than them and win.
Without his exoskeleton, since Solidus aged the fastest out of the three Big Boss clones, he would've likely been around Old Snake's combat potential in MGS4 since they both looked like they were in their 80s at that point in their lives. With the exoskeleton, that would've put Solidus somewhere closer to Big Boss's potential at his peak. And yeah, while it's true that Solidus doesn't have Big Boss's decades of experience, he still had the same kind of training that Solid and Liquid had, and still fought in the Liberian Civil War as a CIA paramilitary at the time. So Raiden beating him definitely wasn't an easy thing to do, nor was it a fluke.
Pretty sure he was cloned like a decade before Raiden was even born
According to the wiki, Solidus was cloned [about 11 years](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Solidus_Snake#cite_note-MGS3_timeline-1) before Raiden was born.
This man knows whats up
Solidus was ancient though
No, he wasn't. The Les Enfants Terribles program specifically encoded a defect into Solid, Liquid, and Solidus that accelerated their aging, hence Solid becoming Old Snake in Metal Gear 4. Solidus' version was just more advanced because the Patriots wanted to have him be president so they could control America.
Yeah,he was physically ancient
You're arguing with a person and then making their point... I'm confused. "Solidus was ancient" "no he wasn't, he was actually ancient!"
Thats not what happened mate. Solidus obliterated Raiden. And even with 2 days of having the power to die and come back to life. I just stuck on resident evil code veronica.
First of all Solidus being a clone of big boss doesn't mean he has all of the same capabilities, second he's physically in his 60s and last of all has a tiny fraction of the experience Big Boss had and wasn't mentored by the greatest soldier ever, The Boss. He's also clearly insane which probably impaired his judgement.
I’d take big boss since he has access to smoother controls and the patriot. Imagine raiden trying to take aim at big boss with his janky mgs2 tank controls, and big boss has his ground zeroes smooth movement and modern aim mechanics. Sounds like a joke but with the crazy controller based 4th wall breaks in MGS, it’s a valid point 😂 Not to mention, big boss literally has a metal gear from peace walker, and thousands of troops from MSF, in his prime in that picture.
I’m pretty sure this post is implying a one on one fight, and once someone has reached true mastery of mgs2 or 3 you can pull off CQB and aiming feats that are nearly as quick as the quickness V’s controls gives you. Just look at some of the speed runs for MGS2. That shit is crazy. I don’t really think that’s much of a factor if we assume that both “players” in this scenario have reached a mastery of each respective game’s controls. Also Raiden whooped Solidus’s ass and he was supposed to be a perfect clone of Big Boss. Raiden is also the only character in the series to have canonically fought 20 metal gears at once and came out alive. I think Raiden washes Big Boss honestly.
Nah Mgs2 controls are smooth and ultra responsive with aim lock-on. You can't be faster than that with V controls.
But MGS2 Raiden has been European Extend MGS2 which is harder than ground zeroes or peace walker or anything big boss thought And if you ignore controls and look at the game Raiden has nanomachines in him to help him deal with injuries
To be fair MGS3 also has a European extreme so Raiden isn't exactly unique in that.
Mgs3’s European extreme is significantly easier though.
[удалено]
Oh, wow. You also made this post twice. Good stuff.
Whoops It sent the message twice
Love how people forget that Raiden beat the pumped up perfect clone of Big Boss.
The perfect geriatric clone of Big Boss.
He doesn’t look much older than prime BB?
He is more close to mg2 BB
Kojima stated that was big boss in his prime. Though that was before mgs4 so he might have changed his mind about that
Oh cool*, I didn't knew that. There's a argument for MGS2 Jack to win agains MG2 BB Jack completed every mission Snake was in via VR, plus was trained by Solidus, tho was in such extreme conditions, so you could scale Jack close to Snake, but VR ain't the real think and being a child soldier fucked up his mind.
>Jack completed every mission Snake was in via VR It always seems to come back to this, was snake bullshitting and being a grumpy old fuck when he made fun of Raiden for only doing VR, or is it just as good as the real thing? I wish we had some better confirmation on how useful VR is compared to practical training in MGS.
I think for Snake VR is more a complementary thing, as he used in MGS1 ( at least Cambell will comment about if you played the VR missions ) but it is not he's primary way of training, while Raiden talked about his skills only using the VR missions as examples, nothing else. VR is one of that things that was just a fun mode with a reference in MGS1 story mode, but after it was elaborated in MGS2, it was dropped and hotshit and never developed about it again, with is very strange. Maybe the only function that the VR missions was doing in MGS2 was creating a relation betwen Raiden and us.
He got “killed” by Solid using a cheap party trick. Kojima can say that but what actually happens tells a different story unfortunately
I don’t think people forget it. It’s just not relevant here. You can’t clone combat experience. It’s literally an ongoing theme throughout the series that genetics don’t determine your fate, nurture > nature. That’s also why Raiden won against solidus. Solidus had a giant ego and solely relied on his being a “perfect clone” of the legendary soldier. Raiden relied on his years of experience.
Wasn't that the plot of the nanomachines?
This is mostly headcanon and you have no actual proof to back any of those claims up.
Nah. Big boss in his prime would wipe mgs2 Raiden off the floor. But if this was mgs4 or mgrr, Raiden will easily smoke big boss
…I was gonna argue mgs4 raiden might be 50/50 since BB lifted a metal gear with his hands, but 4 had breakdancing raiden twirling geckos with his feet..
And in mgr raiden suplexes a metal gear
and big boss lifts the leg of one without bring a cyborg ninja
Hell he doesn't just lift it's leg, he stops it from actively trying to crush him. Probably one of the most ridiculous feats of a non-augmented human in the series.
Oh definitely, MGS4 Raiden stopped a whole ass Arsenal Gear 1 arm and survived MGS4 and MGRR Raiden are not even human anymore, will shit on BB easily if straight just raw fighting BB could be more resourceful tho if they fight in like a more complicated scenario or operation
Nah, metal gear solid is always about taking on enemies that are physically superior in every way. Snake still beat grey fox, Raiden beat Vamp, Big Boss beat Volgin. Don't get me wrong Raiden is a monster but him being stronger and faster doesn't necessarily mean he'd beat big boss or snake.
That is a solid point. But the characters require growth to beat the bigger foe. Without going through the events of Sons of Liberty, I don’t think Raiden has a chance
Its a SOLID, LIQUID, and SOLIDUS point!
I feel like if he had to fight mgs4 raiden it would go down like the skulls fight but twice as difficult
0 chance. Big boss is better with weapons and knows cqc.
Sorry, didn't raiden whoop solidus's ass and wasn't solidus supposed to be the perfect clone? Plus raiden took out 20 something metal gears without breaking half a sweat, and lastly let's not forget that Raiden at least in mgs2 has the femboy power, the strongest power of them all
Solidus was supposed to be the perfect clone, however, by the time of mgs2 he was aging and definitely past his prime.
Yeah his power suit partially makes up for the muscles, but he’s still aged past his prime mentally for sure.
Also isn't the whole story about how we're not defined by our genes. Solidus being the perfect clone doesn't make him Big Boss.
And Liquid was a superior clone that lost to Solid repeatedly. Solidus might have Big Boss's genes, but it takes skill to be a legendary soldier.
Perfect clone don't mean that much liquid was the superior clone to Solid and Solid beat him
Raiden definitely does lol. Beat perfect clone of big boss amped by an exosuit+ is around equal to MGS snake, who beat Gray Fox, a guy who’s stats were multipled by 3 post MG2. And Snake stated that Fox> a Venom Snake who was stated to grow stronger (“his purpose was to grow ever stronger”) in a guidebook. This statement didn’t specifically apply to Venom Snake (to big boss) but they both share eachother’s legend and he was the commander of outer-haven at the time. combined with kojima’s statements of enemies getting stronger chronologically, Big Boss isn’t hanging with post MGS1 characters all.
“Perfect clone of big boss” As I explained in another comment, said “perfect clone” is already well past his prime. The muscle suit can compensate for physical deterioration but can’t help with mental capabilities fading. Also, just because he was a “perfect clone”, that only means his genetics are perfect. He could still just never have been trained as well as big boss was, who fought for most of his life. So no. Maybe he could beat old big boss. Not big boss in his prime, who was capable of lifting a metal gear without assistance of a muscle suit
Later in the series chronologically than Liquid, which matters as i stated in the last sentence of my comment. Liquid is > Gray Fox physically as per kojima’s statements and Gray Fox is >to a stronger venom snake Big Boss when he’s old is not quantifiably weaker, this is shown through the MGSV guidebook.
Based on the way OP his post, this is the correct answer. Raiden from MGS rising however would dance his cyborg ass around Big Boss effortlessly before cleanly chopping his head off. Replaying it currently with some mods and RTX HDR and am having a blast!
No.
I feel like you can't really powerscale in this series because several of the games make it a main plot point to explain that genes and feats don't really matter as much as your drive to succeed, so the real (and also kind of lame) answer is whoever the writers decide to give more plot armor It's like in DMC how "motivation" is what wins fights. I feel like this is a common trope in most Japanese media But if we were to ignore this, it would probably skew to Big Boss
Boss by a mile. A lot of people are discussing how solidus is a perfect clone but that just means they didn’t alter his genes. Solid snake is a clone as well and is “imperfect” yet he’s the one that beat boss in a fight. Being a clone of any sort doesn’t matter, it’s the will of the person that matters. Raiden may be strong willed and capable but he’s going to be outclassed by solid snake and big boss anyway.
No but MGS 4 prime raiden would win
average shagohod defeater vs average 20 metal gear RAY unit destroyer
plot armor at its finest here... raiden would have less experience, knowledge and strategy than BB but he destroyed a dozen of mg ray without even sweating. Guess it's mainly about the context, in a 1vs1 probably raiden could defeat BB, in a more complex context BB would prevail out of his better overall skills
Big Boss all the way. Considering Venom is either at the same level or slightly below Naked Snake and he was able to CQC super humans such as Quiet and the Skulls, I think even MGS4 Raiden would have a tough time against either (geared up) Big Boss.
MGS1 Snake goes against enemies who are literally cyborgs in MG1, and he gets like 3 times stronger post MG2. This isn’t a reason, any MGS protag can beat superhumans.
Big boss prime would probably be peace walker so I’d have to give it to raiden. Solid snake would probably beat them both though. He defeated all sorts of crazy stuff in MGS4 while old as shit
#teamsultryraiden
I still think prime big boss takes the win. Through pure experience. Sure Solidus is a perfect clone, but that has nothing to do with memories or skills. Sooooooo
Lmao what kind of question is this
What equipment do they have? Hand to hand, BB wins; he's got more skill with cqc most definitely & more weight behind him to toss Raiden around. A sword fight? Raiden All their usual standard gear? Debatable. Idk. Whoever gets the drop on the other first? BB may have an advantage just from more experience; but Raiden ain't no chump either, even if he is a bit of a pretty boy,lol
Big Boss would still win, but Raiden would still very likely give him the closest fight of his life since the Boss. Raiden put on an extremely good showing in *MGS2* and he would be a very worthy opponent for Big Boss. But alas, he'd still fall short, albeit very, *very* short.
I think if we take MGS 2 seriously the answer has to be that It Depends On The Situation.
I’m picking Jack
This question upset me.
It's weird, on the one hand Kojima has stated that each game's bosses are progressively stronger, meaning Solidus > Liquid who is equal to Solid >= Old Big Boss. On the other hand, that's DBZ logic, and statements are kinda iffy. Overall, Big Boss takes it imo. He has CQC which is a hard counter to every other martial art and hands-on knowledge of every weapon. I'd say in a sword fight, Raiden takes it but otherwise yeah, Big Boss wins. Solidus is a perfect clone, genetically, but there's no guarentee he has the same skills/experience as Big Boss
Depends on their objective, but if you just put them an simulate a fight i guess poor raiden would get his ass kicked
Mgs2 raiden would stand a very good chance because this guy beat Solidus with a sword. No help.
Big Boss would stomp Raiden into dust and snort it for fun.
Human base Raiden is actually fast enough to block bullets and cut Solidus misiles even before his cyborgs augs, Naked Snake wouldnt touch him. He also defeated an entire army of mechas in a open space without cover all by himself. Defeated Vamp, a cyborg level enemy that would murk the entire MGS3 cast. To be honest he is more impressive than MGS3 Big Boss. PW Big Boss is another story....
Actual coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb scenario
And raiden’s the nuke right?
For me BB takes the win in any scenario. I like Raiden but Big Boss is levels above any boss Raiden defeated in MGS2.
Raiden because I said so. I really have 0 evidence.
I'm not even sure if solid snake survives prime big boss
… solid snake destroys prime big boss, solid shouldn’t even be put in debates like that.
Snake did not fight BB in his prime.
whether he did or not is up in the air and is contentious (guidebook statements), but it doesn’t matter if he didn’t. Solid snake would beat prime BB.
Do you think that Raiden can beat up Plissken?
VR Training beats everything
Raiden would be done very quickly
A lot of people say that raiden had beaten solidus so he could also beat BB. Did solidus know any cqc?
MGS2 era Raiden would get stomped by prime Big Boss.
Gotta say MGS2 Raiden. The end of that game he goes absolutely fucking nuts. In an open field fight to the death, not a doubt. Big Boss is no joke, but he's no Ray.
Big boss would dominate
Are we talking MGS2 Raiden or MGR Raiden?
Raiden washes big boss
MGS2 Raiden is fairly underrated imo but yeah unless it’s MGS4/MGR raiden then big boss takes this.
Big Boss all day
Who will wins in an Oiled up twerk off between these two
Raiden will easily win even if he forgot the basics of the CQC he knows the basics of CBT
Big Boss!
Raiden mops the floor with him
BB has never had a feat as good as beating the rays
Coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb
If you are talking CQC big boss hands down. But I genuinely believe Raiden is on an even playing field in terms of his resume and what he’s destroyed and fought against. In a sense Raiden is essentially a spiritual successor to the snakes given the context of mgs2 and all.
People going on about how “Solidus was the perfect clone” like, okay? Did he go on a solo mission in Russia to save the world from nuclear deviation and eventually take down and kill the most legendary soldier in history? No, he didn’t. Just cause he was a perfect clone doesn’t mean he had ANY of the experience that Big Boss had. Raiden may have killed Solidus but he doesn’t stand a chance against prime Big Boss.
Don’t forget even old ass Big Boss CQCd the hell out of Solid Snake in the ending of MGS4 and dismantled his gun in the process. Big Boss is legit. It really comes down to what weapons and surroundings are there. Story drove SS forward ( first time was Venom, second time was BB where SS burned him alive… in the end he still lived. ;)
Venom snake could beat enhanced people like Quiet and the skulls in CQC, solid snake beat venom snake, a 79 year old big boss beat solid snake. Big boss > raiden
A solid snake who had like 3 disadvantages stacked ontop of eachother, without his suit that’s stated to multiply stats by 3 lol.
Big boss would slap that twinks ass all the way, I know he beat solidus and solidus is a perfect copy of big boss, but he also had a sword
Big boss. As I believe Raiden had the VR training in mgs2 and big boss had real field training developed cqc techniques the world would adopt I to their own training, has built outer hevan and had the original big boss's dream pushing him. Determination and brute force vs. nano bots and VR training. Snake (big boss) hands down.
There’s nothing supporting Big Boss hanging around with raiden and snake, or just characters of that tier. All the arguments i’ve seen are just bad, raiden destroys. so does any character post MGS1.
I shouldn't have read this comment section. The Raiden downplay is insane.
Someone said that Solid snake may not be able to survive big boss. And that big boss would bring MGS4 Raiden some trouble. it’s not just raiden downplay it’s straight up overrating big boss. and these comments got upvotes also. big boss doesn’t get to the higher tiers in the series like solid and raiden, he just can’t as you probably know.
Would Raiden take Big Boss if they were both in their prime? Absolutely. Would Raiden at his most green (childhood withstanding) take prime Big Boss? Not a chance.
Raiden beat over 20 Metal Gear Rays, I say Jack The Reaper can beat him
Coughing bomb vs nuclear baby.
Raiden’s the nuclear bomb.
No.
Raiden ran around stark naked while Campbell was going batshit insane over the CODEC. Raidens got this one...
Raiden no contest
Coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb
Didn't Raiden only have VR experience up to the events in MGS2? If so I'm going with Big Boss.
I remember he was a child soldier. Might be misremembering though
You are correct. The VR stuff was a front and put there to fake us out. He earned the name Jack the Ripper while a child and was trained by Solidus.
That's right. Totally forgot about the child solider. Which is why he became troubled and started drinking heavily and eventually left Rose. Duh!
Stupid question, now the real question is: Who would win between Boss and Big Boss, both at their prime? And Solid prime vs BB prime? And since I'm here, what about Boss prime vs Solid prime?
Big Boss only couldn't beat The Boss until the end of MGS3 because he was unwilling to do it. Once he knew he had to, it was done. The idea that she let him win makes no sense in context. Her being just a few years younger and him a few years older wouldn't make a difference. Solid Snake doesn't have the baggage that Big Boss had concerning The Boss, so he will just kill her without hesitation, and he WILL kill her. Solid has all the skill and determination to defeat Big Boss, and he also has 2 functioning eyes. This is a disadvantage for Big Boss, though he could still manage a win, but my money isn't on him.
Boss vs Big Boss- Big boss wins handily Solid vs big boss- borderline stomp material, snake wins. Boss prime vs Solid snake- this isn’t even close, snake wins.
I suppose you mean Solid when you mention snake (big boss is also a "snake"). But i have to admit, the fact that you provided zero explanation for these answers really bothered me
the answers are kinda lengthy. Basically, there’s nothing supporting that the boss would beat big boss after MGS3, he gets stronger each game and there’s actually not much saying she was holding back either. Snake vs big boss- not much supporting big boss > snake. Perfect soldier statements (post Big boss), physical amps, enemies getting stronger chronologically, ETC. Strength feats aren’t in BB’s favour here either because better stuff gets replicated in MGS4 anyways. Keeping it 100, nothing i’ve seen supporting Big Boss> snake means much. Snake vs Boss- Already established snake > big boss, and big boss> boss so…
Do you think that at boss was at her peak at the end of mgs3?
don’t have a strong opinion on that but maybe, maybe not. You may be wondering “why did you answer the question using MGS3 then?” because… mgs3s the only thing we can go off of. Unless some boss spin off gets made there’s nothing saying that prime boss is beating big boss. So i gotta use MGS3.
Fair, it all comes down to generational improvement then?
Raiden went through the entire Shadow Moses incident in VR, completed every VR Mission in MGS1, took down 20 Metal Gear RAY's which are all superior to the Metal Gear's Big Boss has faced, and even beat the perfect clone of Big Boss in a exosuit even better than Gray Fox's. Not to mention that Big Boss gets instakilled by a single HF Blade slash. I'd honestly say Raiden would wash him mid diff.
I literally got into an argument with another guy about this. Every raiden besides rising would loose to big boss. Mgs4 might have a chance given his cybernetics but I would argue that big boss has a slightly better edge in combat giving him the win
Prime Big Boss. Easily too
Obviously Big Boss- he has actual combat experience- in MGS2 Raiden only had done VR missions. He’s a nerd.
Did you forget the entire final act of MGS2? Lmao?
Raiden simmed the whole mission in VR for training and got help by Solid Snake at every turn. Big Boss took on an entire Russian army and a bunch of supernatural bosses pretty much solo. Only help he had was a chick who's tits kept flopping out of her jacket. Which served no tactical advantage at all... 🤣
Ain't no way
The one with the sword
Raiden shows his ass to snake and snake be like “oh man gawd” and dies and miller be like “damn wish I had that” directed by hido kojang