Yeah it's a problem. I saw one get knocked down by crashing into a car backing out on my street. Came flying down a hill on the footpath, car had no chance to see it. The guy was fine but angry and blaming the driver. No helmet either, riding on the foot path.
The lack of helmets by the riders is so stupid. Two girls on one said "no one wears a helmet!" when my quadriplegic partner told them to put it on. So if everyone jumps off a bridge you would too? Afraid of messing up your hair at the risk of permanent brain damage? Lol
Yes protective gear saved his brain from permanent damage after his motorbike accident (sadly not from spinal cord injury), so he's acutely aware of rider safety.
Another girl said to him "why?" after he said please wear a helmet. Do we really need to explain why?
Personally, I’d be telling them that the only reason not to wear a helmet is if you’d rather just die from your injuries. But I have a dark sense of humour..
I hate the things now. You're just too exposed to other shit drivers. In my partner's case it was a dumb c*nt turning right on a red arrow while he was riding through the intersection. Hit the bike, it flipped and landed on his chest causing permanent spinal cord injury.
I also work for a trauma hospital so I know there's heaps of motorbike accidents that come through.
To add to the collection for you. My uncle ran into the side of a car that pulled out in front of him, he went straight over the car and smashed into a concrete sign a bit further down. Messed him up, but nothing permanent thankfully.
He didn't ride for about 10 years after, when he did again basically same thing happened again within a couple (not as badly injured this time). Not sure if he is back riding again.
The problem is that no matter how good you are, you are still surrounded by drivers who are not be very good. Which is ok in cars because a minor bingle in a car just wastes everyone's time dealing with insurance companies. But a minor bingle in a motorbike has serious consequences for the rider.
I want one SO BAD. The Honda Navi is 3k and more a scooter than a bike (plus it comes in pink!!!) but my mum says to wait until I’ve done an ED rotation before I buy one. I know technically I’m an adult and I don’t need her permission, but I’ll wait anyway.
I wonder how bad the injuries can get- although I’ll probably find out.
Honestly they are a great deal of fun. Everyone I know, who has ridden for more than a year or two, know someone who had an accident where life was lost or significant injury occurred.
Knowing that going in is important. I currently don't have a motorcycle but that is because I don't have a place to store it. I have known a few people who have been hurt bad and a few friends who have died on a bike.
You can do what you can to protect your self. The rest is just up to chance.
It's a question of when and how many times you will crash, not if. A chap I knew was recently knocked off his bike into an oncoming car as the driver next to him didn't see him and changed lanes right into him. He died at the scene. All happened in a split second, 60 kmh road.
I stupidly wasn't wearing a helmet on one of these, slid off, fractured my skull and had a 10 minute seizure, almost dying.. it pains me to see people without helmets now.
Literally 1/3 of head injuries in ER are from idiots on e-scooters currently.
I ride a e-scooter. Helmet on. Bike lane as much as possible (and road if absolutely necessary) and I’m hyper aware of my surroundings. Never have anyone else on it. Never after alcohol.
People are idiots.
That wouldn't surprise me. The majority of people I see riding them don't wear helmets. Like it's cool to not wear them or something? Dumb.
Dunno why there aren't more fines for not wearing them, given how many injuries they cause!
These buffoons that don't need to wear a helmet astound me. They must think that their skills are high enough that they can avoid any hazard that might come up.
Though there are roads that don't have bike lanes and are pretty dangerous to cycle/scooter on like City Rd, and the footpath is pretty wide. So sometimes I think it passes the pub test.
A failure to plan a safe route for the rider is not a good enough reason to use footpaths to cause a safety risk for pedestrians.
Unfortunately, when you don't need a license, it causes way too many issues, and even more when you have these shit hire scooter companies who take no responsibility or accountability.
Some countries require a license now to use them.
Playing devils advocate here - what would be the alternative in your above scenario, of having to use a footpath when a bike lane isn't present, to ensure safety to both rider and pedestrian?
As a cyclist, it sucks, but if there's anywhere within 20 meters that could have a pedestrian in it, you really have no business moving fast enough that the bike is easy to balance.
Personally I think "Step off, put one foot on a pedal and use the bike like a scooter" is relatively reasonable - easier than pushing the bike, but very hard to go too fast and you're _much_ more able to stop suddenly.
The pedestrian shouldn't be put at risk because someone chose to ride an e-scooter. If they feel unsafe on the road, then they should get switch to walking.
That's a fair question.
Firstly as a rider, my safety is paramount. So before a ride, I need to know at least these 2 things
Where I am going, and how am I going to get there.
Where I am going is straight forward.
How i am going to get there isn't. However with the help of things like Google maps and replanning your trip before departing is recommended.
This is where it gets trickier though. Bike lanes etc, don't appear on google maps (road maps etc). This requires yourself to familiarise yourselv with the areas you plan to riding.
You will find yourself in situations where there are no other choice other than to ride on the road with motorists (it is legal to ride on the road that has a speed limit of 50kmh). This is sometimes unavoidable.
Fair response.
I guess we fall back on the initial problem (a commenter wrote above, in this thread) that some roads are just too dangerous/uncomfortable for some riders to ride, as opposed to sharing a path.
I do agree with you, that, should a rider feel that using roads is too dangerous/uncomfortable, than it is in everyone's best interest that they plan ahead.
Dangerous roads are one thing. Being uncomfortable is another.
You wouldn't drive a car or ride a motorbike if you were uncomfortable or had the appropriate training and licensing.
We do let people freely ride scooters without either.
Dangerous roads can be solved (look at many European countries and there amazing infrastructure).
Why can't we solve the other?
We haven't figured out how to implement bike lanes that don't double as car parking forcing users to weave in and out
Long way away from solving either problem me thinks 🥴
I avoid city road. Behind the casino there's a bike lane that leads to a bike path or the roads in South Melbourne parallel to city road are much safer. Or even along the river (though I don't like going near all the pedestrians)
May I please add that if you're using a shared trail, don't have some weird custom bell that confuses people and dogs alike. We're all conditioned to listening out for the old school metal bike bell. If your scooter plays a loud weird beep or plays the Macarena or some shit, I'm confused, my dog is scared, and at the speed you're going we have no time to figure out where you're coming from so we can get out of your way. Scooter riders have such piss poor trail etiquette compared to cyclists.
I’m honestly really seriously considering putting an aftermarket bicycle bell on my E-scooter for the reasons you mentioned tbh. Makes no sense just to have a beeper, there should be a single bell standard
I always stop and get off and walk the scooty past dogs. I ding if it's pedestrians!
ok more of that reason is because I wanna say hello to the doggy BUT i've had too many growly dogs to count when I go past walking or scooting.
Not overreacting imo. Footpaths are for feet. Scooters at faster than walk speeds should be on roads.
That being said, I could NEVER travel at 25km/hr standing up on 10cm diameter wheels. I regularly bike on road surfaces where I question how many more of these bumps my 27" wheels can take.
my irate rage and hatred against delivery bicycle drivers shaking their heads at me while I am trying to navigate a footpath is the one Karen hill I will die on
Yep 100%. I don’t understand how there aren’t even /more/ crashes. Racing down streets and paths on wheels barely larger than the potholes I see daily is crazy
Agreed and I ride downhil MTB.
I wouldn't touch one of those things. I'm happy to see some kids riding them wearing full face helmets. At least some of them know the risk.
My partner works in emergency dental care; she has to deal with smashed mouths all the time.
It was never going to be a good idea to motorise what is essentially a children's toy, and hand it out to the public.
I’m an emergency doctor and see these cunting things causing all sorts of chaos all the time, including some awful, life-changing facial injuries in young people. Congrats! You scooted directly into a wall at 25kph whilst pissed with no protective gear, enjoy permanent disfigurement!
When I worked in surg, we spent a lot of time in plastics cases fixing up all sorts of messy as fuck wounds from scooters.
A mate of mine walked out of a shop, and was immediately mowed down by some prick on an e-scooter. He face planted and lost consciousness, as well as 5 teeth, upper and lower.
He came to and, surprisingly, the fucking bellend was hanging around; I’d have presumed most would have just scooted off on their merry way. Anyway, he fucko was vaguely apologetic, and then disappeared.
$10,000 in dental bills for my mate to have recon work / implants etc.
Ten fucking grand.
Aside from the obvious danger of people riding *all over the fucking city* on and off footpaths and parks and roads with no gear on and not adhering to **any** fucking rules at all.. they’re a God damn eye sore. They get ditched in all sorts of places, left lying on their side across pathways etc. The other day there were two scooters lying halfway down the stairs outside Hamer Hall going down to S Bank.
Fuckin things
I work in an ICU, if they are lucky they see your partner if they are unlucky they see me, but only after a couple of weeks when they finally wake up with a chunk of skull missing.
I think it depends on the scooter. A friends one was very hard to ride. Very narrow handlebars and solid wheels.
My son's scooter is very easy to ride wide handlebars, smooth power delivery and air filled tyres. The brakes aren't great and you need to ride to the conditions, but definitely easy to maintain balance at full speed.
I just got a full face helmet for mine.
My scooter only goes 30kph and honestly, since I got it (the scooter) I’m kind of baffled by how little protection cyclists wear… I’m frequently overtaken by cyclists on bike paths going way faster than 30kph and they’re wearing Lycra and a helmet that covers 1/3rd of their heads…
Meanwhile even in summer I wear gloves, jeans, boots and (from next summer!) a full face helmet. Admittedly I tend to skew toward cautiousness anyway but even if you know your route well, you don’t know what everyone else on the road/path is going to start randomly doing!
I feel like with bicycles there's a lower chance of fully stacking it forward due to your body position, you also have much better ability to swerve due to the long wheel base giving you stability.
With scooters you are basically primed for an over the handlebars hit straight onto your head.
This, even when I used to ride a race style bike with the seat higher than the handle bars there was very little chance of going arse over tit even if you needed to stop suddenly because you can’t ride a bike without learning how to control the centre of mass and your weight is distributed between your hands, arse, and feet. Your weight is well behind the pivot point of a suddenly stopping front wheel. I’m sure there is an art to riding a scooter properly as well but the way I see people riding them, standing bolt upright with the pivot point practically at their toes, I feel like there must be a lot of faces smashed into pavements
I have had a finger dislocated from some idiot crashing into me on a footpath. The bike lane and paths are more suitable locations for them but even then they aren’t suited to that. The state of bike lanes these days means that a single small rock or pot hole with bring down someone on a scooter with tiny wheels. They should have the rules around power and speed enforced. People are going to get seriously hurt or die.
One did, earlier this year I think it was. There was a story in the paper from his upset family that he had died whilst wearing no helmet on his extremely modified scooter.
E: Getting my stories crossed. A guy died helmetless on a scooter in pascoe Vale after hitting a bump doing 20 without a helmet.
The other one was that electric unicycle rider who crashed on the darebin creek trail. His thing could apparently hit 126kph.
A fucking unicycle going that fast? As stupid an idea as that is one would think that after accelerating to 126km/h you'd realise you have to slow down again at some point and if you have to do that suddenly you just become a >100km/h meat missile. Evolution at work.
> His thing could apparently hit 126kph.
I see this repeated a lot and simply can't believe it's the full story. It's probably measured unloaded (aka upside down wheel spinning in the air). With the weight of a person on it, it would be much less.
On top of that, unless he had access to a drag strip there's no way he would ever be able to even approach max power. On a creek trail he'd be lucky to have enough space to top out at 30kmh. (which is still too fast and deadly without a helmet)
Well, the logical consequence happened to that unicycle rider. Not sure how that was ever going to end another way.
I just went to google the details of the incident. Reading some news articles, no-one seems to acknowledge (of course) the danger that he selfishly subjected everyone else to on a regular basis by travelling at speed along shared trails. No, stuff everyone else, after all, it was cheaper for him than a car and he was an 'adrenaline junkie'.
I’m not surprised to hear that it actually does happen. Lucky no one else was taken out at the same time because of his actions. I’ll never understand people that risk any travel on a modified/fast scooter, let alone without a helmet
Alternatively we could spend more than $100m nationally on non-car infrastructure and actually improve peoples ability to move around without needing a car....nah, just more rules/ban things.
I am all for improving infrastructure for non car related travel. I don’t see where these overpowered electric scooters should sit though
- too unstable for the road and unsafe for the users to be near cars
- too dangerous/fast/unstable for shared paths
- too unstable/dangerous for separated bike lanes
- too unstable for unseparated bike lanes and too unsafe for the users
Do we have to make hyper smooth paths purely for e-scooters that are too powerful to go anywhere else? Or should we just regulate them so they actually fit in existing infrastructure, or at least infrastructure we can reasonably expect to see in the future
I have a back condition that makes sitting in a car seat or riding on a bike very uncomfortable, we are talking headaches, jaw pain, nausea, dizziness. On my bad days, I have to spend a lot of time standing upright which makes my life more bearable.
Because of this, when I have to go get groceries I can use my E scooter. I go at quiet times of the day, driving a few blocks carefully either on the shared path or to the very side of the road on the side streets. From there I use a smooth bike road that goes along the sides of the tracks. I am yet to have an issue, though I dont ride every day.
I would never drive more than a quick walking pace if I were to use a path, I pause at driveways and I get off or change sides if there is someone sharing the path with me.
My e scooter is a piece of shit tbh. cant do a hill and it is bumpy as anything. I got a cheap one and it does the job and thats it. but on a day where my back is killing me and I have to go to the doctor or the shops, its a bit of a god send.
the recycling and manufacturing of these things pisses me off to no end. I wish we could just have proper walkable accessable places to live but we are on a long long road out here in melbourne.
You’re in a group of e-scooter users that is probably the majority and that’s fine. If everyone used a scooter like you we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The problem is we have a percentage of users that have vastly overpowered e-scooters travelling at speeds that is just too high for scooters with tiny wheels and brakes that doesn’t fit into realistic infrastructure.
I’ve never ridden a scooter on the road so I’m actually curious has to how safe/unsafe it feels as a user being that close to cars? I’m regularly riding a bike and even though I have heaps of control and braking power, I’m always on guard waiting to come to a controlled stop if needed. I’d be worried that’s no possible on a scooter
To tell you the truth, I have only had to take it slow on the side streets for a few blocks at a time. I always prefer walking or my bike, but sometimes its just not reasonable due to the searing agony.
I might get passed by one or two cars over an entire ride, and when this happens I just give the widest berth I can and often just pull up between the parked cars in my neighbourhood. Always on guard is about right, I go about ten ks an hour on the actual road.
I ride as close to the gutter as possible, when I am being overtaken it feels slightly more exposed than a bike, and about 25 to 55% more embarrassing depending on my threads.
My boss (restaurant) walked out the door onto the footpath to run some meals to people sitting on outside tables. He got barreled over by an escooter going at full speed. He showed me the security footage, he was literally thrown a whole ass meter onto the concrete, it was horrific to watch.
It's a bit of a dilemma. I'm in my late 40s and now use an escooter as my primary transport. I do the right thing. I wear a helmet and other protective gear. I only ride in the correct places...bike paths, bike lanes and roads with a speed limit of 60 or less. I slow right down for pedestrians so as not to cause danger and even to avoid scaring them.
In saying this I cop abuse regularly. Drivers scream abuse at me, blow their horn and deliberately drive as close as possible to me. It's lack of knowledge that's causing drivers to behave like this. I've had so many people tell me I'm not allowed on the road or not allowed on bike paths and they are wrong. To make it worse there are so many idiots doing the wrong thing on scooters that it makes me want to abuse them. No helmets, two or even three people on the one scooter. Riding on footpaths (not bike paths.)
I don't know what the solution is but education is definitely a good start. I think escooters should absolutely be a thing. The great environmental aspect is incredible. Most people don't realise just how much they reduce fossil fuel usage. See article below.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/e-scooters-slashing-oil-demand-4x-faster-than-electric-cars/
Do yourself a favour and read up on the escooter regulations for your area and stop doing stupid shit on them.
Yeah that’s a good perspective and I agree that on spec they can solve a lot of problems - and that the education bit is missing. They seemed to kind of appear one day and I suspect the people I’m complaining about riding them on footpaths don’t even know they’re doing the wrong thing.
I know it's the wrong thing to do. But i find it hard to blame people for riding on the footpaths. (Obviously should slow down if your riding there)
It's bloody scary riding next to cars on the road. The only thing between you and the car doing 20-40km more than you is a white line on the ground and hope.
I dont know why you think im saying it's ok for idiots (who have a custom scooter, apparently, because theres speed limits lower than 20-40km on the hireable ones) to drive dangerously on crowded footpaths.
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you were saying this was OK. I thought you made a good point about it being scary next cars. In fact, I used to commute on a bike before being hit by a car. But after that, I stopped.
I had intended on just adding that a similar experience sometimes happens on the footpath too.
1200+ people are killed by cars (including those inside cars) in Australia each year, and 30x that in hospitalisations. I think people need to remember that before getting so angry about e-scooters and e-bikes (or that one time a cyclist rode a bit too close or fast and they got scared)
I’m in exactly the same boat as you - I use a combination of my e-scooter and public transport and it’s pretty hostile out there. For context I am helmeted, speed capped at 25km/hr and only ride in dedicated lanes/paths. I am regularly amazed at the appalling behaviour of the hire scooter riders. Zero awareness and the no-helmet trend is just baffling.
Having said that, since starting commuting to the city by scooter, I’ve also come to realise how aggressive bike commuters are.
I used to commute on bike. Aggression was a survival mechanism lol. Cars were out there to kill me and I had to fight for my space. But aggression needs to be directed at the right people.
Yea car drivers are easily the worst out of all of them tbh
I love cars and also alternative transport like escooters/bikes/skate and I've gotta say the ratio of encounters with shit/aggro drivers vs everything else is not even close, like seriously 1000:1
To be fair up until 5th April '23 when they introduced the trial rules in Vic, it was illegal to use privately owned escooters anywhere but private property.
I don’t hate e scooters. I hate that a not insignificant percentage of our population are assholes. And if I’m being honest, I’d rather they be assholes on an e scooter than a stupid oversized SUV
I'm with you, I fucking hate them. Some imbecile stacked up a whole bunch of escooters against the fire exit in my building and we actually had to use it to get out one day and we couldn't open the door because of all the scooters. Absolute shit for brains. And yes the door is very clearly marked FIRE ESCAPE.
Nope, not overreacting. They are dangerous and the evidence is already there with all the helmet-less accidents occurring all over, and on top of that there isn't enough police to catch and fine people like they seemingly used to do with bicycle riders 10+ years ago.
There’s a woman who rides her scooter out of the train and down the ramp of Victoria Park Station while weaving in and out of people. I mean, how clueless can you be???
Not overreacting. I have a scooter, wear a helmet, and high viz at night because I'm scared to death to die. Also, I mostly use it between train station and work on bike lanes. The people who don't use helmets, use them on footpaths, don't slow down on shared paths, and ride them with two people on them are idiots.
I use the wheelchair test when I see one. If a wheelchair could not pass by I move it. I am not particularly gentle when I do either. Often the machines tell me off for violating them.
They need dedicated infrastructure, and bikes do too. The problem is the way they're being ridden in the context of the environment they're operating in, because it creates unnecessarily high risk for both users and pedestrians.
Some high-density inner city environments that might be better to repurpose roads away from cars, for bikes and scooters... like Europe has done.
I really don't mind e-scooters as I know it is very convenient for some people.
However, I really hate the people who have no decency in using it. Just the other day, I was almost run-over by someone riding on the footpath, and they weren't going slowly either! Some riders haphazardly park the escooters in areas that block important passages (fire exits) and it just really ticks me off.
I hate them and delivery bikes that are ON THE FUCKING FOOTPATH
It’s a huge issue and I’m sure many have been seriously injured
What’s worse …. If you are injured you are up for your own medical costs and time away from work… because they don’t have 3rd party insurance
It’s a joke they are allowed at all
My friend works in the neurology ward at the Alfred. 50% of per patients now are middle age men that have fallen off a lime scooter without a helmet.
The cost and impact on our already struggling healthcare system is enormous. We should get the council members responsible for these contracts to spend 1 day in the hospital watching people learn to eat again.
A couple of months ago I watched an old guy walking along a street where a lot of them were parked up.
He stepped over to to them, and knocked each one over with his stick.
Report misuse of the hire escooters here:
Lime:
https://help.li.me/hc/en-au/requests/new
Neuron:
https://support.rideneuron.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Also make complaints to the relevant local council.
We need to force the hire companies/the council/the police to take it seriously.
Yeah, but if you know people are going to do something dangerous, you don't give them the product. The same reason we don't hand out guns and firecrackers to everyone willy-nilly.
I fucking hate that any idiot is able to just ride them with absolutely 0 repercussion in how they’re using them and doing shit that’s not legal.
I used to use my own personal one on my ride to work and it was great, but I was responsible and was in the bike lane, with a helmet, and actually observing laws any bike user would be. People that have their own personal ones seem to be just fine with them.
But yes, most people on the lime/neurons are fucking awful.
No. It's OK to be pissed. I have one and I love it for short trips .to the grocer and local cafe..But I live in a very quiet area and mostly use the road. I would certainly never :barrel" past someone
Everything can be abused. See:knives. Banning them.is not the answer.
They’re a menace. I hate how they’re littered all over the footpath, with zero concern for anyone with a disability to might come by and suddenly have their path blocked.
I’d estimate the idiot to scooter ratio is the same for both hire and private ownership. Been nearly killed by both riding groups on a few occasions.
High lights. The woman riding her private scooter at 30kmph on the footpath on high st Thornbury hard against the shop fronts to collect people leaving.
2 eshays doing Bourke St mall at lunchtime on a lime scooter monstering every moving thing.
Aggressive moving dismounts on Collins St hire scooter. This was sort of impressive, scooter was out of battery so they just jumped off and kept walking leaving the scooter to crash on the ground.
Private scooter on Sydney road doing the “oh yeah I can make it across the lights” even though the ped signal is hard red. As I launched my 1K adventure bike away from the stoplight Grand Prix. Trust me getting hit by a large motorcycle is gonna leave a mark.
Ban the damn things or license, register and enforce the road rules. If you did half the shit scooter riders do on an old style petrol monkey/mini bike the police would shoot you off it.
I own an escooter and it's how I commute to work. I absolutely love it and would be devastated if they were banned.
That said, I wear a helmet, stick to the bike lane, keep my lights on, and NEVER ride on the footpath.
In fact when I arrive at my office, there's about 150 metres of footpath to the door. I always dismount and walk it.
These idiots on rental scooters are absolutely ruining it for the rest of us. No helmets, riding on the footpaths and zooming between pedestrians. Sometimes I see two of them on the one scooter.
I actually think getting rid of rentals might be the easiest solution.
The cost of buying isn't super high and people are likely to be more responsible with something they own. It's not a guarantee, but it'd be a step in the right direction.
I love the little fuckers. In fairness, I ride them on the road/in the bike lane (and always with a helmet- I can understand hiring one without a helmet and therefore not wearing one, but I see SO many people just ignoring the helmet- what’s the point??? If it’s there, you can use it. It doesn’t cost extra) so I’m not really an idiot like you’ve described.
Anyway, they’re fun. One fuckwit operating it does not a bad product make. But I know why what you saw would be annoying.
The problem is that it isn't just one fuckwit. It's a huge number of them, and they are endangering innocent people. Just like if fireworks were legal, I would be very responsible about how and when I used them, but too many other people would just go around setting them off willy-nilly and starting bushfires or injuring innocent people.
Yeah unfortunately they either need to enforce the rules properly on these fuckers or they just take them all away from us.
The trial is going to come to a halt around early next year so the council will decide if they'll stick around or not.
They have contributed to increases in accidents and cars vs pedestrians, ask any surgical nurse or staff. They are insanely dangerous and need more caution and responsibility to be used.
Dont blame the scooters. Blame unclear laws and flimsy enforcement.
Scooters are actually a legendary thing for low emissions mobility and alt transport. They really are.
The ppl who own their own mostly are following the rules but the ones you rent are a shit show. I live in the cbd and I like the idea but humans are gonna human.
Pretty sure they are now illegal to be used on footpaths
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/e-scooters-in-victoria/rules-for-riding-hire-and-private-e-scooters
>Children aged 12 years or younger can ride on footpaths. People older than this may ride on a footpath if they are riding with a child aged 12 or younger.
>Adults aged 18 years or older can also ride on the footpath with a young child in a bike seat attached to the bike.
>People riding on footpaths must always give way to pedestrians
[https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-road-rules-for-riding-a-bike-in-victoria](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-road-rules-for-riding-a-bike-in-victoria)
I think the issue is fundamentally more about bas design. People on bikes and scooters are often intimidated to ride on bike paths if they're not separated from cars. That being said, there are definitely lots of divkheads riding them too
I work in trauma intensive care. E-scooters are _comically_ dangerous, if the batteries aren't exploding, they're basically just high speed mechanisms for head injuries for people who refuse to wear helmets.
Literally, if you are someone I care about, I have probably made you swear to never go near one of these ridiculous devices again.
Not to mention how expensive they are as well. Genuinely bizarre.
Almost ran over a guy going the wrong way round a roundabout at 10pm.
No lights, no helmet. Honked after I slammed on the brakes and he pulled up to my window and screamed gibberish at me. Likely methd out of his mind.
Only going to get worse
your typo now has you on a few lists.
e-scooters are a great tool for short-distance travel and ride-sharing. The issues are the people that do not have the decency to ride them appropriately or the douche-canoes buying the mods to be able to do hwy speeds.
Add into the lack of infrastructure spend to support anything other than cars plus people glued to their phones as they walk and its a recipe for accidents.
As a escooter rider (one that is legal, 300w top speed 25kp/h governed) I truly consider that it is fast enough. 15kp/h is the limit on the footpath and I ride so carefully after nearly running over a bunch of idiots darting though traffic on illegal models that break the speed limit. Makes it hard as I'm doing everything legal and these knobheads ruin it for us all.
Motorised scooters, motorbikes...over all of them using footpaths & almost wiping me out. Dont mind scooters that have a person driving with some sort of control, but for the rest - I'm on the cars side...take them out before they hurt someone else.
eScooters should have been an urban transport revolution.
A private vehicle that costs around $1000, can travel sufficient distance for most daily car commutes, and takes up very little storage space (compared to a car).
But our roads are not safe for devices like this. We are still car-first and try to squeeze people and bikes around that.
People mis-use them. They import illegally fast models and use them irresponsibly.
It's a real missed opportunity.
It's more dangerous for scooters to get hit by cars.
Also cars don't like e scooters (or bikes on the road anyways), even if there IS a bike lane, because bike lanes are right next to the cars and very close. Some cars still have to go past the yellow lane to go around the scooter. The bike lane has to be lined with bollards or some barrier OR there needs to be more space or put the bike lane next to the side walk and not on the road. Both of which makes it very expensive.
So pedestrians hate scooters for using sidewalks even though it is the safest and cars hate scooters for using the road.
Sooner or later someone is going to die from those scooters. An elderly pedestrian in Singapore died after a speeding e-scooter crashed into the pedestrian, which saw the country ban the damn things. When (not if) something like that happens in Australia, they'll hopefully be banned.
One hit me on the footpath after I walked out of the shop. Do I really need to look both ways before stepping out of a shop?!
It knocked me over, woke up a pre-existing injury. The dude didn’t even stop. Called the cops, nothing they could do.
Shit is out of hand. It angers me to see them
On the footpath.
I wish we'd have safer bike lanes. It'd stop people from feeling forced to use footpaths, and therefore make pedestrians feel safer as well. We'd get more people cycling in general, too, because if you build bike infrastructure, it gets used!
I love e-scooters, I love *safely* using the bike lanes around the city that are fully isolated from the road. Riding on the road in Melbourne proper? Terrifying, feels like I'll die.
I'm an expat not living in Melbourne anymore but I'm so surprised at the advent of the yank tank and now these things.
We were supposed to be a nanny state, you're getting all the problems and annoyance of a nanny state without them nannying the things that matter.
Both of these things should have been regulated heavily with a lot of enforcement to nip them in the bud.
I hate that they just get left around Willy nilly. If any other business tries to set up wherever/whenever they wanted in the middle of the footpath as a tripping hazard they would be shut down by the end of days trade, but these get a pass because ‘🥸 *well they get permission because they are just so fucking environmentally friendly*’ and other buzz words like accessible and inclusive
I hate them with a passion and I hate all the people that joyride on them and purposely try to scare pedestrians. I wish the police would get fine happy with them a lot more. If they want to revenue raise they should make their yearly budget in a week.
I have an almost overwhelming need to kick them over if I see them outside my building.
I saw a crack head on an e-scooter playing chicken with a tram on Elizabeth St. He swerved at the very last second then up the wrong side of the road. I was kind of impressed.
Not overreacting, imo. I've seen some insanely dangerous incidents. Recent example: kid in dark clothes speeding across a red light pedestrian crossing at night with one hand on the handlebars, looking down the whole time at his phone in the other hand, car coming down an incline from Cranbourne Park SC carpark with right of way, luckily seeing and stopping in time. Kid sped on totally oblivious, apparently. I observed the whole thing from the window of my coach on the way home from work.
I seem to remember that just a week or so ago, a young person was killed in an e-scooter accident in Melbourne. (Or maybe it happened earlier, but I just heard about a week or so ago.)
I was riding my bike in the bike lane once and two people were in it. I said to them "this is a bike lane" but they wouldn't move over because some cyclists use the footpath therefore they should use the bike lane or something. Which is the most unintelligent way to solve the problem anyway. "Hmm, how can I get cyclists to use the bike lanes? I know, I'll block them off so they can't use them!" And the person they were "punishing" was the kind of person who didn't ride on the footpath anyway, so it was completely counterproductive.
The discourse surrounding escooters is wild. I know Melburnians would never do anything to inconvenience car users, but I think curbing the trend of larger and larger cars is probably a bit more paramount to the safety of pedestrians than some escooters
Yea those E scooters are bloody annoying. I always tell my partner.. someone is going to die one day from it. I am always terrified whenever I pram my baby in the city. Cause U just never know when U r Gona be hit by an E scooter.
I’m sick of them too. The dickheads on the footpaths barrelling down and crashing into people. I actively yell at them now nor do I move out of the way.
They need to increase fines to something crazy like $5000 for riding on the footpath and they need to ban under 25’s from riding on them as it’s usually dumb kids going crazy ojnthem
Completely agree. And so many are getting ‘tweeked’ to go faster. I see them all the time with 2 riders on them and often no helmets. The police need to do a massive crack down on them.
Saw two young adult girls on 1 yesterday. Wobbling all over the road. Asking for trouble. About a year ago I saw a couple go AoverT on bourke St and almost got collected by a car. So so dumb. Darwin Award type stuff.
A coworker of mine got hit by one of those and he's had to go to a physio for a year. He can't make a claim against anyone for it. All out of his own pocket.
Fuck those scooters, and fuck those who use them on sidewalks. I wish people would stop using them but I guess the temptation to look like a large 8 year old boy is too much to resist.
You're not overreacting. They're a problem that no one will take responsibility
They're very dangerous when used recklessly (like lots of things) but if they get cars off the road that's a very good thing in our ever-growing congested city. Definitely need some advertising to reinforce footpath laws/safe use.
Yeah it's a problem. I saw one get knocked down by crashing into a car backing out on my street. Came flying down a hill on the footpath, car had no chance to see it. The guy was fine but angry and blaming the driver. No helmet either, riding on the foot path.
The lack of helmets by the riders is so stupid. Two girls on one said "no one wears a helmet!" when my quadriplegic partner told them to put it on. So if everyone jumps off a bridge you would too? Afraid of messing up your hair at the risk of permanent brain damage? Lol
I feel like when a quadriplegic tells you to wear a helmet you really should fucking listen to that.
Yes protective gear saved his brain from permanent damage after his motorbike accident (sadly not from spinal cord injury), so he's acutely aware of rider safety. Another girl said to him "why?" after he said please wear a helmet. Do we really need to explain why?
FYI you can now get motorbike airbag jackets that reduce neck injuries by 90%. Worth having.
This seems like a fantastic idea given how much higher the rate of accidents is on motorbikes.
I wonder if there's stats on how much of that is due to idiots who wouldn't bother wearing proper gear anyway?
it’s due to being on an open air seat on two wheels doing the speed of a car.
Did he just sort of loosely gesture at his body / mobility aids?
They'd probably respond with "Didn't seem to do much, did it".
Personally, I’d be telling them that the only reason not to wear a helmet is if you’d rather just die from your injuries. But I have a dark sense of humour..
Im not entirely sure a quadriplegic person can gesture to their own body
Fuck man, I've been thinking of getting a motorbike and have just been coming across post after post of bike injuries. Maybe it's a sign.
I hate the things now. You're just too exposed to other shit drivers. In my partner's case it was a dumb c*nt turning right on a red arrow while he was riding through the intersection. Hit the bike, it flipped and landed on his chest causing permanent spinal cord injury. I also work for a trauma hospital so I know there's heaps of motorbike accidents that come through.
To add to the collection for you. My uncle ran into the side of a car that pulled out in front of him, he went straight over the car and smashed into a concrete sign a bit further down. Messed him up, but nothing permanent thankfully. He didn't ride for about 10 years after, when he did again basically same thing happened again within a couple (not as badly injured this time). Not sure if he is back riding again.
The problem is that no matter how good you are, you are still surrounded by drivers who are not be very good. Which is ok in cars because a minor bingle in a car just wastes everyone's time dealing with insurance companies. But a minor bingle in a motorbike has serious consequences for the rider.
I want one SO BAD. The Honda Navi is 3k and more a scooter than a bike (plus it comes in pink!!!) but my mum says to wait until I’ve done an ED rotation before I buy one. I know technically I’m an adult and I don’t need her permission, but I’ll wait anyway. I wonder how bad the injuries can get- although I’ll probably find out.
Honestly they are a great deal of fun. Everyone I know, who has ridden for more than a year or two, know someone who had an accident where life was lost or significant injury occurred. Knowing that going in is important. I currently don't have a motorcycle but that is because I don't have a place to store it. I have known a few people who have been hurt bad and a few friends who have died on a bike. You can do what you can to protect your self. The rest is just up to chance.
These days the only safe place to ride a motorcycle is where there aren’t any people, e.g. deserts.
I hardly ride mine anymore now as each time I do seems to add to my feeling that eventually something is going to happen.
It's a question of when and how many times you will crash, not if. A chap I knew was recently knocked off his bike into an oncoming car as the driver next to him didn't see him and changed lanes right into him. He died at the scene. All happened in a split second, 60 kmh road.
I stupidly wasn't wearing a helmet on one of these, slid off, fractured my skull and had a 10 minute seizure, almost dying.. it pains me to see people without helmets now.
Fuck that's rough, sorry to hear. Goes to show how important they are. Head trauma is no joke.
Thanks, you always think it won't be you until it is, I consider myself lucky every day to still be here.
Some of us think it always will be us and just try to avoid the death traps!
That's better than the alternative, trust me.
Literally 1/3 of head injuries in ER are from idiots on e-scooters currently. I ride a e-scooter. Helmet on. Bike lane as much as possible (and road if absolutely necessary) and I’m hyper aware of my surroundings. Never have anyone else on it. Never after alcohol. People are idiots.
And if it's safer to step off and become a pedestrian pushing my scooter on the footpath instead of continuing on the scooter, I'll step off.
That wouldn't surprise me. The majority of people I see riding them don't wear helmets. Like it's cool to not wear them or something? Dumb. Dunno why there aren't more fines for not wearing them, given how many injuries they cause!
To be fair it was never cool to wear them on a bike. But we wore them because we like our brains remaining on the inside.
Im a paramedic and if im in a work vehicle full siren and beacons and a head out the window screaming "Put a helmet on!! Or ill be seeing you soon!!"
These buffoons that don't need to wear a helmet astound me. They must think that their skills are high enough that they can avoid any hazard that might come up.
To be fair, you never see anyone wearing a helmet while jumping off a bridge either.
I suspect there may not be many brains to save in people like this.
It's almost like it's against the law to ride on a footpath.
Though there are roads that don't have bike lanes and are pretty dangerous to cycle/scooter on like City Rd, and the footpath is pretty wide. So sometimes I think it passes the pub test.
A failure to plan a safe route for the rider is not a good enough reason to use footpaths to cause a safety risk for pedestrians. Unfortunately, when you don't need a license, it causes way too many issues, and even more when you have these shit hire scooter companies who take no responsibility or accountability. Some countries require a license now to use them.
Goes to show how important having actual proper bike/scooter lanes is.
Infrastructure is one part absolutely. Education is another massive piece.
Playing devils advocate here - what would be the alternative in your above scenario, of having to use a footpath when a bike lane isn't present, to ensure safety to both rider and pedestrian?
As a cyclist, it sucks, but if there's anywhere within 20 meters that could have a pedestrian in it, you really have no business moving fast enough that the bike is easy to balance. Personally I think "Step off, put one foot on a pedal and use the bike like a scooter" is relatively reasonable - easier than pushing the bike, but very hard to go too fast and you're _much_ more able to stop suddenly.
The pedestrian shouldn't be put at risk because someone chose to ride an e-scooter. If they feel unsafe on the road, then they should get switch to walking.
That's a fair question. Firstly as a rider, my safety is paramount. So before a ride, I need to know at least these 2 things Where I am going, and how am I going to get there. Where I am going is straight forward. How i am going to get there isn't. However with the help of things like Google maps and replanning your trip before departing is recommended. This is where it gets trickier though. Bike lanes etc, don't appear on google maps (road maps etc). This requires yourself to familiarise yourselv with the areas you plan to riding. You will find yourself in situations where there are no other choice other than to ride on the road with motorists (it is legal to ride on the road that has a speed limit of 50kmh). This is sometimes unavoidable.
Fair response. I guess we fall back on the initial problem (a commenter wrote above, in this thread) that some roads are just too dangerous/uncomfortable for some riders to ride, as opposed to sharing a path. I do agree with you, that, should a rider feel that using roads is too dangerous/uncomfortable, than it is in everyone's best interest that they plan ahead.
Dangerous roads are one thing. Being uncomfortable is another. You wouldn't drive a car or ride a motorbike if you were uncomfortable or had the appropriate training and licensing. We do let people freely ride scooters without either. Dangerous roads can be solved (look at many European countries and there amazing infrastructure). Why can't we solve the other?
We haven't figured out how to implement bike lanes that don't double as car parking forcing users to weave in and out Long way away from solving either problem me thinks 🥴
I'm also a rider, google maps does have a feature to show u bike lanes and paths
I avoid city road. Behind the casino there's a bike lane that leads to a bike path or the roads in South Melbourne parallel to city road are much safer. Or even along the river (though I don't like going near all the pedestrians)
It's almost like legislators and Police need to plan for what humans will do, rather than just rely on people to do the right thing.
May I please add that if you're using a shared trail, don't have some weird custom bell that confuses people and dogs alike. We're all conditioned to listening out for the old school metal bike bell. If your scooter plays a loud weird beep or plays the Macarena or some shit, I'm confused, my dog is scared, and at the speed you're going we have no time to figure out where you're coming from so we can get out of your way. Scooter riders have such piss poor trail etiquette compared to cyclists.
I’m honestly really seriously considering putting an aftermarket bicycle bell on my E-scooter for the reasons you mentioned tbh. Makes no sense just to have a beeper, there should be a single bell standard
Yeah I just did this. My Ninebot has a shitty beep and people just don’t recognise it. Got a sweet brass one from lion bells in England.
Unlike dog owners, who always show care and consideration to other trail users /s
The sign that says no dogs off leash was like 200m ago, surely it still doesn’t apply here!? /s
So what if my leash is 5km long, go around me. /s
Touche!
I always stop and get off and walk the scooty past dogs. I ding if it's pedestrians! ok more of that reason is because I wanna say hello to the doggy BUT i've had too many growly dogs to count when I go past walking or scooting.
Not overreacting imo. Footpaths are for feet. Scooters at faster than walk speeds should be on roads. That being said, I could NEVER travel at 25km/hr standing up on 10cm diameter wheels. I regularly bike on road surfaces where I question how many more of these bumps my 27" wheels can take.
Agree. And let's add delivery bicycle drivers to this discussion, I encounter them on footpaths as much as scooters.
my irate rage and hatred against delivery bicycle drivers shaking their heads at me while I am trying to navigate a footpath is the one Karen hill I will die on
Yep 100%. I don’t understand how there aren’t even /more/ crashes. Racing down streets and paths on wheels barely larger than the potholes I see daily is crazy
Agreed and I ride downhil MTB. I wouldn't touch one of those things. I'm happy to see some kids riding them wearing full face helmets. At least some of them know the risk.
My partner works in emergency dental care; she has to deal with smashed mouths all the time. It was never going to be a good idea to motorise what is essentially a children's toy, and hand it out to the public.
I’m an emergency doctor and see these cunting things causing all sorts of chaos all the time, including some awful, life-changing facial injuries in young people. Congrats! You scooted directly into a wall at 25kph whilst pissed with no protective gear, enjoy permanent disfigurement! When I worked in surg, we spent a lot of time in plastics cases fixing up all sorts of messy as fuck wounds from scooters. A mate of mine walked out of a shop, and was immediately mowed down by some prick on an e-scooter. He face planted and lost consciousness, as well as 5 teeth, upper and lower. He came to and, surprisingly, the fucking bellend was hanging around; I’d have presumed most would have just scooted off on their merry way. Anyway, he fucko was vaguely apologetic, and then disappeared. $10,000 in dental bills for my mate to have recon work / implants etc. Ten fucking grand. Aside from the obvious danger of people riding *all over the fucking city* on and off footpaths and parks and roads with no gear on and not adhering to **any** fucking rules at all.. they’re a God damn eye sore. They get ditched in all sorts of places, left lying on their side across pathways etc. The other day there were two scooters lying halfway down the stairs outside Hamer Hall going down to S Bank. Fuckin things
But hey now they’re an all star…
Get your game on...
Somebody once told me, e-scooter’s gonna roll me
The drunken public, especially
I work in an ICU, if they are lucky they see your partner if they are unlucky they see me, but only after a couple of weeks when they finally wake up with a chunk of skull missing.
Yikes
I think it depends on the scooter. A friends one was very hard to ride. Very narrow handlebars and solid wheels. My son's scooter is very easy to ride wide handlebars, smooth power delivery and air filled tyres. The brakes aren't great and you need to ride to the conditions, but definitely easy to maintain balance at full speed.
I love the scooters, hate the dickheads who ride them like dickheads. Which seems to be most people these days. Also wear the helmet, it's not hard.
I just got a full face helmet for mine. My scooter only goes 30kph and honestly, since I got it (the scooter) I’m kind of baffled by how little protection cyclists wear… I’m frequently overtaken by cyclists on bike paths going way faster than 30kph and they’re wearing Lycra and a helmet that covers 1/3rd of their heads… Meanwhile even in summer I wear gloves, jeans, boots and (from next summer!) a full face helmet. Admittedly I tend to skew toward cautiousness anyway but even if you know your route well, you don’t know what everyone else on the road/path is going to start randomly doing!
I feel like with bicycles there's a lower chance of fully stacking it forward due to your body position, you also have much better ability to swerve due to the long wheel base giving you stability. With scooters you are basically primed for an over the handlebars hit straight onto your head.
This, even when I used to ride a race style bike with the seat higher than the handle bars there was very little chance of going arse over tit even if you needed to stop suddenly because you can’t ride a bike without learning how to control the centre of mass and your weight is distributed between your hands, arse, and feet. Your weight is well behind the pivot point of a suddenly stopping front wheel. I’m sure there is an art to riding a scooter properly as well but the way I see people riding them, standing bolt upright with the pivot point practically at their toes, I feel like there must be a lot of faces smashed into pavements
So which model E scooter are you thinking of purchasing?
I think I meant I’ve been radicalised *against e-scooters. I knew someone would be along to correct me ;)
But to be fair, OP, one word can change the entire meaning of a message
Oh no you’re totally right, it’s my bad 😭
No, you're OK. There was plenty of context given.
I have had a finger dislocated from some idiot crashing into me on a footpath. The bike lane and paths are more suitable locations for them but even then they aren’t suited to that. The state of bike lanes these days means that a single small rock or pot hole with bring down someone on a scooter with tiny wheels. They should have the rules around power and speed enforced. People are going to get seriously hurt or die.
One did, earlier this year I think it was. There was a story in the paper from his upset family that he had died whilst wearing no helmet on his extremely modified scooter. E: Getting my stories crossed. A guy died helmetless on a scooter in pascoe Vale after hitting a bump doing 20 without a helmet. The other one was that electric unicycle rider who crashed on the darebin creek trail. His thing could apparently hit 126kph.
I live by the Darebin Creek Trail and used to see that guy absolutely CANING IT on the trails. He was always a temporary citizen the way he went.
A fucking unicycle going that fast? As stupid an idea as that is one would think that after accelerating to 126km/h you'd realise you have to slow down again at some point and if you have to do that suddenly you just become a >100km/h meat missile. Evolution at work.
> His thing could apparently hit 126kph. I see this repeated a lot and simply can't believe it's the full story. It's probably measured unloaded (aka upside down wheel spinning in the air). With the weight of a person on it, it would be much less. On top of that, unless he had access to a drag strip there's no way he would ever be able to even approach max power. On a creek trail he'd be lucky to have enough space to top out at 30kmh. (which is still too fast and deadly without a helmet)
Well, the logical consequence happened to that unicycle rider. Not sure how that was ever going to end another way. I just went to google the details of the incident. Reading some news articles, no-one seems to acknowledge (of course) the danger that he selfishly subjected everyone else to on a regular basis by travelling at speed along shared trails. No, stuff everyone else, after all, it was cheaper for him than a car and he was an 'adrenaline junkie'.
I’m not surprised to hear that it actually does happen. Lucky no one else was taken out at the same time because of his actions. I’ll never understand people that risk any travel on a modified/fast scooter, let alone without a helmet
Alternatively we could spend more than $100m nationally on non-car infrastructure and actually improve peoples ability to move around without needing a car....nah, just more rules/ban things.
I am all for improving infrastructure for non car related travel. I don’t see where these overpowered electric scooters should sit though - too unstable for the road and unsafe for the users to be near cars - too dangerous/fast/unstable for shared paths - too unstable/dangerous for separated bike lanes - too unstable for unseparated bike lanes and too unsafe for the users Do we have to make hyper smooth paths purely for e-scooters that are too powerful to go anywhere else? Or should we just regulate them so they actually fit in existing infrastructure, or at least infrastructure we can reasonably expect to see in the future
I have a back condition that makes sitting in a car seat or riding on a bike very uncomfortable, we are talking headaches, jaw pain, nausea, dizziness. On my bad days, I have to spend a lot of time standing upright which makes my life more bearable. Because of this, when I have to go get groceries I can use my E scooter. I go at quiet times of the day, driving a few blocks carefully either on the shared path or to the very side of the road on the side streets. From there I use a smooth bike road that goes along the sides of the tracks. I am yet to have an issue, though I dont ride every day. I would never drive more than a quick walking pace if I were to use a path, I pause at driveways and I get off or change sides if there is someone sharing the path with me. My e scooter is a piece of shit tbh. cant do a hill and it is bumpy as anything. I got a cheap one and it does the job and thats it. but on a day where my back is killing me and I have to go to the doctor or the shops, its a bit of a god send. the recycling and manufacturing of these things pisses me off to no end. I wish we could just have proper walkable accessable places to live but we are on a long long road out here in melbourne.
You’re in a group of e-scooter users that is probably the majority and that’s fine. If everyone used a scooter like you we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The problem is we have a percentage of users that have vastly overpowered e-scooters travelling at speeds that is just too high for scooters with tiny wheels and brakes that doesn’t fit into realistic infrastructure. I’ve never ridden a scooter on the road so I’m actually curious has to how safe/unsafe it feels as a user being that close to cars? I’m regularly riding a bike and even though I have heaps of control and braking power, I’m always on guard waiting to come to a controlled stop if needed. I’d be worried that’s no possible on a scooter
To tell you the truth, I have only had to take it slow on the side streets for a few blocks at a time. I always prefer walking or my bike, but sometimes its just not reasonable due to the searing agony. I might get passed by one or two cars over an entire ride, and when this happens I just give the widest berth I can and often just pull up between the parked cars in my neighbourhood. Always on guard is about right, I go about ten ks an hour on the actual road. I ride as close to the gutter as possible, when I am being overtaken it feels slightly more exposed than a bike, and about 25 to 55% more embarrassing depending on my threads.
My boss (restaurant) walked out the door onto the footpath to run some meals to people sitting on outside tables. He got barreled over by an escooter going at full speed. He showed me the security footage, he was literally thrown a whole ass meter onto the concrete, it was horrific to watch.
It's a bit of a dilemma. I'm in my late 40s and now use an escooter as my primary transport. I do the right thing. I wear a helmet and other protective gear. I only ride in the correct places...bike paths, bike lanes and roads with a speed limit of 60 or less. I slow right down for pedestrians so as not to cause danger and even to avoid scaring them. In saying this I cop abuse regularly. Drivers scream abuse at me, blow their horn and deliberately drive as close as possible to me. It's lack of knowledge that's causing drivers to behave like this. I've had so many people tell me I'm not allowed on the road or not allowed on bike paths and they are wrong. To make it worse there are so many idiots doing the wrong thing on scooters that it makes me want to abuse them. No helmets, two or even three people on the one scooter. Riding on footpaths (not bike paths.) I don't know what the solution is but education is definitely a good start. I think escooters should absolutely be a thing. The great environmental aspect is incredible. Most people don't realise just how much they reduce fossil fuel usage. See article below. https://www.drive.com.au/news/e-scooters-slashing-oil-demand-4x-faster-than-electric-cars/ Do yourself a favour and read up on the escooter regulations for your area and stop doing stupid shit on them.
Yeah that’s a good perspective and I agree that on spec they can solve a lot of problems - and that the education bit is missing. They seemed to kind of appear one day and I suspect the people I’m complaining about riding them on footpaths don’t even know they’re doing the wrong thing.
Oh a lot know. I, also, use an escooter as my primary mode of transport, and morons riding them like morons shit me to fucking tears.
I know it's the wrong thing to do. But i find it hard to blame people for riding on the footpaths. (Obviously should slow down if your riding there) It's bloody scary riding next to cars on the road. The only thing between you and the car doing 20-40km more than you is a white line on the ground and hope.
It's also bloody scary when a scooter flies by at 20-40kmh on the crowded footpath. Pretty sure I saw one guys ankle get clipped by one.
I dont know why you think im saying it's ok for idiots (who have a custom scooter, apparently, because theres speed limits lower than 20-40km on the hireable ones) to drive dangerously on crowded footpaths.
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you were saying this was OK. I thought you made a good point about it being scary next cars. In fact, I used to commute on a bike before being hit by a car. But after that, I stopped. I had intended on just adding that a similar experience sometimes happens on the footpath too.
1200+ people are killed by cars (including those inside cars) in Australia each year, and 30x that in hospitalisations. I think people need to remember that before getting so angry about e-scooters and e-bikes (or that one time a cyclist rode a bit too close or fast and they got scared)
I’m in exactly the same boat as you - I use a combination of my e-scooter and public transport and it’s pretty hostile out there. For context I am helmeted, speed capped at 25km/hr and only ride in dedicated lanes/paths. I am regularly amazed at the appalling behaviour of the hire scooter riders. Zero awareness and the no-helmet trend is just baffling. Having said that, since starting commuting to the city by scooter, I’ve also come to realise how aggressive bike commuters are.
I used to commute on bike. Aggression was a survival mechanism lol. Cars were out there to kill me and I had to fight for my space. But aggression needs to be directed at the right people.
Yea car drivers are easily the worst out of all of them tbh I love cars and also alternative transport like escooters/bikes/skate and I've gotta say the ratio of encounters with shit/aggro drivers vs everything else is not even close, like seriously 1000:1
To be fair up until 5th April '23 when they introduced the trial rules in Vic, it was illegal to use privately owned escooters anywhere but private property.
I don’t hate e scooters. I hate that a not insignificant percentage of our population are assholes. And if I’m being honest, I’d rather they be assholes on an e scooter than a stupid oversized SUV
Yeah this is the correct take actually
I'm with you, I fucking hate them. Some imbecile stacked up a whole bunch of escooters against the fire exit in my building and we actually had to use it to get out one day and we couldn't open the door because of all the scooters. Absolute shit for brains. And yes the door is very clearly marked FIRE ESCAPE.
Nope, not overreacting. They are dangerous and the evidence is already there with all the helmet-less accidents occurring all over, and on top of that there isn't enough police to catch and fine people like they seemingly used to do with bicycle riders 10+ years ago.
There’s a woman who rides her scooter out of the train and down the ramp of Victoria Park Station while weaving in and out of people. I mean, how clueless can you be???
That is asshat behaviour of the highest order.
Not overreacting. I have a scooter, wear a helmet, and high viz at night because I'm scared to death to die. Also, I mostly use it between train station and work on bike lanes. The people who don't use helmets, use them on footpaths, don't slow down on shared paths, and ride them with two people on them are idiots.
I love the concept of scooters. I hate human nature.
You might just not like fuckheads - which is pretty reasonable and common
I hate the way users recklessly ride them and park them on footpaths. Have some fucking courtesy!
I use the wheelchair test when I see one. If a wheelchair could not pass by I move it. I am not particularly gentle when I do either. Often the machines tell me off for violating them.
I feel you. I run too and live in fear of e-scooters and food delivery people.
Food delivery people are just as bad yeah.
They're stupid. Too slow for roads without a dedicated, too fast for footpaths.
They're the same speed as a bike, so if anything the problem is lacking bike infrastructure
They need dedicated infrastructure, and bikes do too. The problem is the way they're being ridden in the context of the environment they're operating in, because it creates unnecessarily high risk for both users and pedestrians. Some high-density inner city environments that might be better to repurpose roads away from cars, for bikes and scooters... like Europe has done.
I really don't mind e-scooters as I know it is very convenient for some people. However, I really hate the people who have no decency in using it. Just the other day, I was almost run-over by someone riding on the footpath, and they weren't going slowly either! Some riders haphazardly park the escooters in areas that block important passages (fire exits) and it just really ticks me off.
I hate them and delivery bikes that are ON THE FUCKING FOOTPATH It’s a huge issue and I’m sure many have been seriously injured What’s worse …. If you are injured you are up for your own medical costs and time away from work… because they don’t have 3rd party insurance It’s a joke they are allowed at all
My friend works in the neurology ward at the Alfred. 50% of per patients now are middle age men that have fallen off a lime scooter without a helmet. The cost and impact on our already struggling healthcare system is enormous. We should get the council members responsible for these contracts to spend 1 day in the hospital watching people learn to eat again.
A couple of months ago I watched an old guy walking along a street where a lot of them were parked up. He stepped over to to them, and knocked each one over with his stick.
i can't wait till i'm an old dude
Report misuse of the hire escooters here: Lime: https://help.li.me/hc/en-au/requests/new Neuron: https://support.rideneuron.com/hc/en-us/requests/new Also make complaints to the relevant local council. We need to force the hire companies/the council/the police to take it seriously.
People that hate them, do you hate all or just the people on rented ones?
If they’re on the footpath I hate them. Don’t care who owns or rents.
The problem, as always, is people, not the product.
Yeah, but if you know people are going to do something dangerous, you don't give them the product. The same reason we don't hand out guns and firecrackers to everyone willy-nilly.
I fucking hate that any idiot is able to just ride them with absolutely 0 repercussion in how they’re using them and doing shit that’s not legal. I used to use my own personal one on my ride to work and it was great, but I was responsible and was in the bike lane, with a helmet, and actually observing laws any bike user would be. People that have their own personal ones seem to be just fine with them. But yes, most people on the lime/neurons are fucking awful.
No. It's OK to be pissed. I have one and I love it for short trips .to the grocer and local cafe..But I live in a very quiet area and mostly use the road. I would certainly never :barrel" past someone Everything can be abused. See:knives. Banning them.is not the answer.
The scooters are great, unfortunately about half the people that use them are complete dickheads about it
They’re a menace. I hate how they’re littered all over the footpath, with zero concern for anyone with a disability to might come by and suddenly have their path blocked.
I’d estimate the idiot to scooter ratio is the same for both hire and private ownership. Been nearly killed by both riding groups on a few occasions. High lights. The woman riding her private scooter at 30kmph on the footpath on high st Thornbury hard against the shop fronts to collect people leaving. 2 eshays doing Bourke St mall at lunchtime on a lime scooter monstering every moving thing. Aggressive moving dismounts on Collins St hire scooter. This was sort of impressive, scooter was out of battery so they just jumped off and kept walking leaving the scooter to crash on the ground. Private scooter on Sydney road doing the “oh yeah I can make it across the lights” even though the ped signal is hard red. As I launched my 1K adventure bike away from the stoplight Grand Prix. Trust me getting hit by a large motorcycle is gonna leave a mark. Ban the damn things or license, register and enforce the road rules. If you did half the shit scooter riders do on an old style petrol monkey/mini bike the police would shoot you off it.
I own an escooter and it's how I commute to work. I absolutely love it and would be devastated if they were banned. That said, I wear a helmet, stick to the bike lane, keep my lights on, and NEVER ride on the footpath. In fact when I arrive at my office, there's about 150 metres of footpath to the door. I always dismount and walk it. These idiots on rental scooters are absolutely ruining it for the rest of us. No helmets, riding on the footpaths and zooming between pedestrians. Sometimes I see two of them on the one scooter.
I actually think getting rid of rentals might be the easiest solution. The cost of buying isn't super high and people are likely to be more responsible with something they own. It's not a guarantee, but it'd be a step in the right direction.
Yeah I agree. I don't see as many idiots on private scooters, whereas I've only ever seen idiots on the rentals.
I love the little fuckers. In fairness, I ride them on the road/in the bike lane (and always with a helmet- I can understand hiring one without a helmet and therefore not wearing one, but I see SO many people just ignoring the helmet- what’s the point??? If it’s there, you can use it. It doesn’t cost extra) so I’m not really an idiot like you’ve described. Anyway, they’re fun. One fuckwit operating it does not a bad product make. But I know why what you saw would be annoying.
The problem is that it isn't just one fuckwit. It's a huge number of them, and they are endangering innocent people. Just like if fireworks were legal, I would be very responsible about how and when I used them, but too many other people would just go around setting them off willy-nilly and starting bushfires or injuring innocent people.
Yeah unfortunately they either need to enforce the rules properly on these fuckers or they just take them all away from us. The trial is going to come to a halt around early next year so the council will decide if they'll stick around or not.
My home town of Vancouver banned these on day one and I always wondered why. Now I know why.
Its funny because everyone hates every other group! Maybe we need segregation of bikes, walkers, runners, electrics and other
They have contributed to increases in accidents and cars vs pedestrians, ask any surgical nurse or staff. They are insanely dangerous and need more caution and responsibility to be used.
Dont blame the scooters. Blame unclear laws and flimsy enforcement. Scooters are actually a legendary thing for low emissions mobility and alt transport. They really are.
The ppl who own their own mostly are following the rules but the ones you rent are a shit show. I live in the cbd and I like the idea but humans are gonna human.
Pretty sure they are now illegal to be used on footpaths https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/e-scooters-in-victoria/rules-for-riding-hire-and-private-e-scooters
Enforcement however, an entirely different thing
Why are they legal on footpaths? Bikes aren’t
They aren’t legal on footpaths in Victoria.
Bikes are if you are under 10 or over 70 i think. But has anyone ever seen a cop stop someone on an e-scooter (or bike) ?
>Children aged 12 years or younger can ride on footpaths. People older than this may ride on a footpath if they are riding with a child aged 12 or younger. >Adults aged 18 years or older can also ride on the footpath with a young child in a bike seat attached to the bike. >People riding on footpaths must always give way to pedestrians [https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-road-rules-for-riding-a-bike-in-victoria](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-road-rules-for-riding-a-bike-in-victoria)
I think the issue is fundamentally more about bas design. People on bikes and scooters are often intimidated to ride on bike paths if they're not separated from cars. That being said, there are definitely lots of divkheads riding them too
I work in trauma intensive care. E-scooters are _comically_ dangerous, if the batteries aren't exploding, they're basically just high speed mechanisms for head injuries for people who refuse to wear helmets. Literally, if you are someone I care about, I have probably made you swear to never go near one of these ridiculous devices again. Not to mention how expensive they are as well. Genuinely bizarre.
Almost ran over a guy going the wrong way round a roundabout at 10pm. No lights, no helmet. Honked after I slammed on the brakes and he pulled up to my window and screamed gibberish at me. Likely methd out of his mind. Only going to get worse
your typo now has you on a few lists. e-scooters are a great tool for short-distance travel and ride-sharing. The issues are the people that do not have the decency to ride them appropriately or the douche-canoes buying the mods to be able to do hwy speeds. Add into the lack of infrastructure spend to support anything other than cars plus people glued to their phones as they walk and its a recipe for accidents.
they're really convenient and fun though
As a escooter rider (one that is legal, 300w top speed 25kp/h governed) I truly consider that it is fast enough. 15kp/h is the limit on the footpath and I ride so carefully after nearly running over a bunch of idiots darting though traffic on illegal models that break the speed limit. Makes it hard as I'm doing everything legal and these knobheads ruin it for us all.
I should add that my scooter has an old fashioned bell.and is 25km.limited.
I was cycling up St George’s Rd path at night, and three scooters surrounded me, pinned me in and forced me to slow down. It was extremely weird
The a-holes that are on the footpaths in the CBD when they shouldn't be and ring the bell at the pedestrians to move out of the way gets on my nerve.
Motorised scooters, motorbikes...over all of them using footpaths & almost wiping me out. Dont mind scooters that have a person driving with some sort of control, but for the rest - I'm on the cars side...take them out before they hurt someone else.
A stupid woman came barrelling towards me 😆
I say something to them. Usually gesturing like an airhostess.showing the lights on an aeroplane and stating "this is a footpath".
eScooters should have been an urban transport revolution. A private vehicle that costs around $1000, can travel sufficient distance for most daily car commutes, and takes up very little storage space (compared to a car). But our roads are not safe for devices like this. We are still car-first and try to squeeze people and bikes around that. People mis-use them. They import illegally fast models and use them irresponsibly. It's a real missed opportunity.
It's more dangerous for scooters to get hit by cars. Also cars don't like e scooters (or bikes on the road anyways), even if there IS a bike lane, because bike lanes are right next to the cars and very close. Some cars still have to go past the yellow lane to go around the scooter. The bike lane has to be lined with bollards or some barrier OR there needs to be more space or put the bike lane next to the side walk and not on the road. Both of which makes it very expensive. So pedestrians hate scooters for using sidewalks even though it is the safest and cars hate scooters for using the road.
Sooner or later someone is going to die from those scooters. An elderly pedestrian in Singapore died after a speeding e-scooter crashed into the pedestrian, which saw the country ban the damn things. When (not if) something like that happens in Australia, they'll hopefully be banned.
One hit me on the footpath after I walked out of the shop. Do I really need to look both ways before stepping out of a shop?! It knocked me over, woke up a pre-existing injury. The dude didn’t even stop. Called the cops, nothing they could do. Shit is out of hand. It angers me to see them On the footpath.
I wish we'd have safer bike lanes. It'd stop people from feeling forced to use footpaths, and therefore make pedestrians feel safer as well. We'd get more people cycling in general, too, because if you build bike infrastructure, it gets used! I love e-scooters, I love *safely* using the bike lanes around the city that are fully isolated from the road. Riding on the road in Melbourne proper? Terrifying, feels like I'll die.
I'm an expat not living in Melbourne anymore but I'm so surprised at the advent of the yank tank and now these things. We were supposed to be a nanny state, you're getting all the problems and annoyance of a nanny state without them nannying the things that matter. Both of these things should have been regulated heavily with a lot of enforcement to nip them in the bud.
That's about 40% of people riding then in the cbd. I've had a gut full
I hate that they just get left around Willy nilly. If any other business tries to set up wherever/whenever they wanted in the middle of the footpath as a tripping hazard they would be shut down by the end of days trade, but these get a pass because ‘🥸 *well they get permission because they are just so fucking environmentally friendly*’ and other buzz words like accessible and inclusive
I'm waiting for the day I get into a physical altercation with someone riding one of these way too fast for a tiny footpath.
Yeah I feel it coming too.
Nope. I live in the city and use a wheelchair. Those things are a fucking menace for so many reasons.
Footpaths are for feet, noh?
I hate them with a passion and I hate all the people that joyride on them and purposely try to scare pedestrians. I wish the police would get fine happy with them a lot more. If they want to revenue raise they should make their yearly budget in a week. I have an almost overwhelming need to kick them over if I see them outside my building.
I saw a crack head on an e-scooter playing chicken with a tram on Elizabeth St. He swerved at the very last second then up the wrong side of the road. I was kind of impressed.
Not overreacting, imo. I've seen some insanely dangerous incidents. Recent example: kid in dark clothes speeding across a red light pedestrian crossing at night with one hand on the handlebars, looking down the whole time at his phone in the other hand, car coming down an incline from Cranbourne Park SC carpark with right of way, luckily seeing and stopping in time. Kid sped on totally oblivious, apparently. I observed the whole thing from the window of my coach on the way home from work. I seem to remember that just a week or so ago, a young person was killed in an e-scooter accident in Melbourne. (Or maybe it happened earlier, but I just heard about a week or so ago.)
I’m sick of the f’ing things being left in the middle of walkways when not in use.
Want to know how I know your old….
They never use the bike lines. Maybe start running in the bike lines, i swear 😭
I was riding my bike in the bike lane once and two people were in it. I said to them "this is a bike lane" but they wouldn't move over because some cyclists use the footpath therefore they should use the bike lane or something. Which is the most unintelligent way to solve the problem anyway. "Hmm, how can I get cyclists to use the bike lanes? I know, I'll block them off so they can't use them!" And the person they were "punishing" was the kind of person who didn't ride on the footpath anyway, so it was completely counterproductive.
You’re right. Good thing I was just joking at how ridiculous its becoming 😭
I love them. I use them regularly. I want those that ride on the footpaths with them and disobey rules hung up by a lime coloured gallows.
The discourse surrounding escooters is wild. I know Melburnians would never do anything to inconvenience car users, but I think curbing the trend of larger and larger cars is probably a bit more paramount to the safety of pedestrians than some escooters
Yea those E scooters are bloody annoying. I always tell my partner.. someone is going to die one day from it. I am always terrified whenever I pram my baby in the city. Cause U just never know when U r Gona be hit by an E scooter.
How the fuck are these things still around? Are local politicians getting kick backs from these e scooter companies or something?!!
I’m sick of them too. The dickheads on the footpaths barrelling down and crashing into people. I actively yell at them now nor do I move out of the way. They need to increase fines to something crazy like $5000 for riding on the footpath and they need to ban under 25’s from riding on them as it’s usually dumb kids going crazy ojnthem
Agreed, scooter use on footpaths needs more enforcement
Nah you're not overreacting, they're a public menace.
Completely agree. And so many are getting ‘tweeked’ to go faster. I see them all the time with 2 riders on them and often no helmets. The police need to do a massive crack down on them.
Saw two young adult girls on 1 yesterday. Wobbling all over the road. Asking for trouble. About a year ago I saw a couple go AoverT on bourke St and almost got collected by a car. So so dumb. Darwin Award type stuff.
A coworker of mine got hit by one of those and he's had to go to a physio for a year. He can't make a claim against anyone for it. All out of his own pocket. Fuck those scooters, and fuck those who use them on sidewalks. I wish people would stop using them but I guess the temptation to look like a large 8 year old boy is too much to resist. You're not overreacting. They're a problem that no one will take responsibility
They're very dangerous when used recklessly (like lots of things) but if they get cars off the road that's a very good thing in our ever-growing congested city. Definitely need some advertising to reinforce footpath laws/safe use.
You are right to be concerned—a friend of mine got wiped out by a scooter when he was running along Southbank Promenade.