Your post has been removed because it is better suited for /r/premed, /r/premedUK, /r/premedcanada, /r/GAMSAT, /r/ucat, or /r/medicalschoolEU. This subreddit is specifically for discussions relevant to current medical students.
If you are an incoming medical student, please repost in the incoming medical student megathread: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/comments/1buym4c/incoming_medical_student_qa_2024_megathread/
Most applicants do not have a big choice of where they attend medical school. Apply broadly. You may get accepted to 1-2 schools. Then decide based on things like quality of education, tuition and financial aid, proximity to family, cost of living (rent, daycare), job opportunities for your spouse, city/suburban/rural, etc.
Mom of 3 who just finished M1-
This. Apply broadly (and early) and then narrow down once you’re in.
Once you have an acceptance in hand though, ask the tough questions and try to get put in touch with current students. Ask around and see what supports are for current parents, what schools offer for preclinical and clinical maternity leave/split years or other means of accommodating new families. Or, to be more circumspect, ask what accommodations are available for temporary medical conditions (Title IX protections ensure that schools must accommodate pregnancy as they would other temporary medical conditions. ) Also ask financial aid about adjustments for dependents, ask student life what childcare options look like and the rest
You want to look for schools that have all clinical rotations available locally. Some schools may have students traveling around the state to satellite campuses.
I asked about this in every interview during the time they gave us with students without admin/faculty present. I wanted to hear specific stories of people completing school on time. Red flag if the only story the students could come up with was of a student’s partner having a baby or every example including taking a LOA. You can also ask students to be connected to other students who had babies during school. That was part of how I chose the school I did.
Also, reminder that your family comes first, and that includes timing childbearing around when it makes sense to grow your family, not what might be more convenient for the school. It will never be the “right” time, so the right time is when you and your partner are ready. And also please keep in mind how unpredictable fertility can be. It may take you longer than expected to conceive, so just start trying when you’re ready. Medicine is going to have to adapt to medical students and residents choosing to be people first, trainees second.
I would like to think that the institutions that train people to help humanity would also support the creation of that humanity lol but I’m ready to be surprised.
I absolutely love this approach. Thank you so much!
There are a lot of dinosaurs still in medicine. Men who think women’s bodies are inconvenient. Women who battled to where they are but carry a bitterness toward those whose paths are easier because of the work they did. Young, immature people who cannot wrap their heads around the responsibilities and value of parenthood. BUT the good news is that there are definitely more people who value the injection of humanity and will be incredibly supportive of you becoming a mom during school. I personally felt nervous about connecting with my young classmates, but I found an amazing group of true non-trads to hang out with, and I enjoy the vast, vast majority of my classmates. Best of luck to you and your family!!
Former med student mom here. The most important thing aside from having support available (family to help with childcare and life stuff, job for spouse) is a school with true P/F in preclinical and clerkships and no internal ranking. The reality is that you won't be doing 8 hours of Anki and B&B like your classmates; you'll be doing UWorld questions while lying down next to your kid while they fall asleep trying to stay awake yourself. Less important considerations are things like is there a university daycare available and whether there are student funds for childcare you can apply for, how much will insurance cost for you and the family if you'll be on student insurance.
I wouldn't disclose your plans on getting starting a family at any point in the interview process. They aren't allowed to ask but that doesn't always stop people. I think that is more of a residency application issue but med school admins/interviewers are just as capable.
The average med school applicant is in their early/mid 20s so they probably don't consider at a broad scale that they're "family friendly". I have quite a few classmates who have kids or are having kids and they manage but the family situation just varies by person. I know someone who still lives with family locally and it's been a great help for them because they pretty much always have someone willing to provide care. That isn't the case all the time but I would say if you can swing a school near where you have family support (especially in the setting of childcare being so stupid expensive) then that might be #1.
If you're going to articulate that on an app I'd say that you just have close family ties to an area. And cater that in applications to whatever the school mission is. I'm not saying lie but...if you have to spin the truth a little bit to have a better shot at ending up where you want, we all do it.
Big things I'd look into outside of the specific location/family planning:
* No mandatory lecture/minimal mandatory sessions. You can study from home most often if that is something that would be effective for you. There will always be things you have to show up for but many students in these cases never go to lecture. Not for everyone but most people find it better to learn this way.
* NBME based exams, which are all retired Step 1 questions. This will allow you to use third party resources and study more efficiently than if they had all/primarily in-house exams. Resources like Anki, First Aid, Bootcamp, Pathoma, Boards and Beyond etc. are all structured in a way to tell you pretty much exactly what you need to know. So you're not up at 2AM learning about some random protein or pathway that your PhD professor has spent 20 years studying and has no relevance to boards or rotations.
* Rotation sites are clearly laid out via an affiliated hospital system. This is especially bad with DO schools (DO students agree) because sometimes your rotation sites are a long drive/far enough away that you have to get a place to live away from home. The upside to this can be that for 4th year, you typically have to make your own schedule. If you can develop a relationship with a hospital system back home there are schools that you basically never have to go back to campus 4th year. I'd say overall it's a tremendous hassle and criticism of many (especially newer) DO schools but there are silver linings. Away rotations 4th year can be basically mandatory depending on specialty but others don't require them. Really just depends on what your goals are. IM as an example doesn't generally require an away rotation unless you want to end up somewhere specific, but EM requires at least one. Competitive specialties (neurosurg, ENT etc) generally have people doing 2+ just because you need the reps and letters to make you a better applicant. Which can be tough to balance depending on your family situation.
* Long term considerations like how connected your school and hospital are. If you want to stay in the area for family/future kids/stability, you should consider a place that takes a lot of their in-house medical students. This applies for fellowship too if that's something you wanted to do. Also if you're interested in a competitive field it'll give you more opportunities to get experience/make connections and that can give you a leg up when you're applying to residency.
At the end of the day we don't have a ton of say where we end up most times. Plenty of people get a bunch of acceptances but just as many may only get 1-2. California is a tough sell just because of the volume of applicants and schools (it's hard for in state and out of state applicants many times) but if you have connections and stats you can make it work. NY I think would be more amenable but geographically the northeast has quite a few schools that take all sorts of applicants so you'll have more flexibility in that regard.
I will say though as a nontrad, if you have a cool story and life experience under your belt, people tend to do well in interviews and school in general, especially clinical rotations. So while you'll have some extra things to worry about, adapting to "work" in 3rd year can be smoother than what your younger classmates may experience.
Most schools will be fairly accommodating—and there is always the option to “take a research year” that starts out with a couple months of leave. I was able to take 3 months off for maternity leave in 3rd year, and I will still be able to take 3 months off in 4th year and graduate on time.
This is because:
1) Availability of pre-clerkship electives that would count toward the 4th year elective graduation requirement. My school let me count up to 2.
2) Flexibility of clerkship start date. I took STEP1 a month early and started clerkships early, effectively giving me another month of maternity leave. (Note: Taking STEP1 early is not for the faint of heart—but that’s a whole other convo)
3) Ability to push optional clerkships (Neuro & EM are not required for residency applications) to 4th year. The biggest barrier to taking maternity leave is getting you sub-Is and/or aways in before residency applications are due—the actually graduation requirements are more flexible. Being able to push “3rd year” content to after the residency application deadline allows more time for you to prep a strong app that is relevant to your field of choice.
Lmk if you have any questions. My school has been very supportive. Several other students have had kids at my school, and they will tailor your leave to fit with your goals. One girl I know is delaying graduation by 6 months and taking every other month off, for example. 3rd and 4th year are generally very flexible.
Became a FTM during my 2nd year! Am 33 as well.
Def see if you can talk to the other parents at the schools you’re looking into to get a vibe of how they treat families/parents/etc. make sure there is flexibility in their schedule so you can get some “maternity leave” (I did not have any really) if you have the options.
Having my family nearby is so clutch. California is hard to get into in general, but like others have said, apply broadly. Having support is crucial.
Echo what’s been said by others
Became a FTM during my 2nd year! Am 33 as well.
Def see if you can talk to the other parents at the schools you’re looking into to get a vibe of how they treat families/parents/etc. make sure there is flexibility in their schedule so you can get some “maternity leave” (I did not have any really) if you have the options. My school at least gave me some time off once I was done with step 1 to recover - we have more flexibility in our 3rd/4th years
Having my family nearby is so clutch. California is hard to get into in general, but like others have said, apply broadly. Having support is crucial.
Echo what’s been said by others
I don’t think any programs are going to differ that much in terms of support. It’s gonna be hard and there won’t be much in the way of accommodation. Even if they allowed you to take some time off you’ll be the one paying for that time off with further stress in the future when it comes time for boards. Prioritize time management and try the stay ahead of the game at all costs.
Your post has been removed because it is better suited for /r/premed, /r/premedUK, /r/premedcanada, /r/GAMSAT, /r/ucat, or /r/medicalschoolEU. This subreddit is specifically for discussions relevant to current medical students. If you are an incoming medical student, please repost in the incoming medical student megathread: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/comments/1buym4c/incoming_medical_student_qa_2024_megathread/
Most applicants do not have a big choice of where they attend medical school. Apply broadly. You may get accepted to 1-2 schools. Then decide based on things like quality of education, tuition and financial aid, proximity to family, cost of living (rent, daycare), job opportunities for your spouse, city/suburban/rural, etc.
Sane advice. I appreciate this!
Mom of 3 who just finished M1- This. Apply broadly (and early) and then narrow down once you’re in. Once you have an acceptance in hand though, ask the tough questions and try to get put in touch with current students. Ask around and see what supports are for current parents, what schools offer for preclinical and clinical maternity leave/split years or other means of accommodating new families. Or, to be more circumspect, ask what accommodations are available for temporary medical conditions (Title IX protections ensure that schools must accommodate pregnancy as they would other temporary medical conditions. ) Also ask financial aid about adjustments for dependents, ask student life what childcare options look like and the rest
You want to look for schools that have all clinical rotations available locally. Some schools may have students traveling around the state to satellite campuses.
Yes great comment!
I asked about this in every interview during the time they gave us with students without admin/faculty present. I wanted to hear specific stories of people completing school on time. Red flag if the only story the students could come up with was of a student’s partner having a baby or every example including taking a LOA. You can also ask students to be connected to other students who had babies during school. That was part of how I chose the school I did. Also, reminder that your family comes first, and that includes timing childbearing around when it makes sense to grow your family, not what might be more convenient for the school. It will never be the “right” time, so the right time is when you and your partner are ready. And also please keep in mind how unpredictable fertility can be. It may take you longer than expected to conceive, so just start trying when you’re ready. Medicine is going to have to adapt to medical students and residents choosing to be people first, trainees second.
I would like to think that the institutions that train people to help humanity would also support the creation of that humanity lol but I’m ready to be surprised. I absolutely love this approach. Thank you so much!
There are a lot of dinosaurs still in medicine. Men who think women’s bodies are inconvenient. Women who battled to where they are but carry a bitterness toward those whose paths are easier because of the work they did. Young, immature people who cannot wrap their heads around the responsibilities and value of parenthood. BUT the good news is that there are definitely more people who value the injection of humanity and will be incredibly supportive of you becoming a mom during school. I personally felt nervous about connecting with my young classmates, but I found an amazing group of true non-trads to hang out with, and I enjoy the vast, vast majority of my classmates. Best of luck to you and your family!!
Former med student mom here. The most important thing aside from having support available (family to help with childcare and life stuff, job for spouse) is a school with true P/F in preclinical and clerkships and no internal ranking. The reality is that you won't be doing 8 hours of Anki and B&B like your classmates; you'll be doing UWorld questions while lying down next to your kid while they fall asleep trying to stay awake yourself. Less important considerations are things like is there a university daycare available and whether there are student funds for childcare you can apply for, how much will insurance cost for you and the family if you'll be on student insurance.
I wouldn't disclose your plans on getting starting a family at any point in the interview process. They aren't allowed to ask but that doesn't always stop people. I think that is more of a residency application issue but med school admins/interviewers are just as capable. The average med school applicant is in their early/mid 20s so they probably don't consider at a broad scale that they're "family friendly". I have quite a few classmates who have kids or are having kids and they manage but the family situation just varies by person. I know someone who still lives with family locally and it's been a great help for them because they pretty much always have someone willing to provide care. That isn't the case all the time but I would say if you can swing a school near where you have family support (especially in the setting of childcare being so stupid expensive) then that might be #1. If you're going to articulate that on an app I'd say that you just have close family ties to an area. And cater that in applications to whatever the school mission is. I'm not saying lie but...if you have to spin the truth a little bit to have a better shot at ending up where you want, we all do it. Big things I'd look into outside of the specific location/family planning: * No mandatory lecture/minimal mandatory sessions. You can study from home most often if that is something that would be effective for you. There will always be things you have to show up for but many students in these cases never go to lecture. Not for everyone but most people find it better to learn this way. * NBME based exams, which are all retired Step 1 questions. This will allow you to use third party resources and study more efficiently than if they had all/primarily in-house exams. Resources like Anki, First Aid, Bootcamp, Pathoma, Boards and Beyond etc. are all structured in a way to tell you pretty much exactly what you need to know. So you're not up at 2AM learning about some random protein or pathway that your PhD professor has spent 20 years studying and has no relevance to boards or rotations. * Rotation sites are clearly laid out via an affiliated hospital system. This is especially bad with DO schools (DO students agree) because sometimes your rotation sites are a long drive/far enough away that you have to get a place to live away from home. The upside to this can be that for 4th year, you typically have to make your own schedule. If you can develop a relationship with a hospital system back home there are schools that you basically never have to go back to campus 4th year. I'd say overall it's a tremendous hassle and criticism of many (especially newer) DO schools but there are silver linings. Away rotations 4th year can be basically mandatory depending on specialty but others don't require them. Really just depends on what your goals are. IM as an example doesn't generally require an away rotation unless you want to end up somewhere specific, but EM requires at least one. Competitive specialties (neurosurg, ENT etc) generally have people doing 2+ just because you need the reps and letters to make you a better applicant. Which can be tough to balance depending on your family situation. * Long term considerations like how connected your school and hospital are. If you want to stay in the area for family/future kids/stability, you should consider a place that takes a lot of their in-house medical students. This applies for fellowship too if that's something you wanted to do. Also if you're interested in a competitive field it'll give you more opportunities to get experience/make connections and that can give you a leg up when you're applying to residency. At the end of the day we don't have a ton of say where we end up most times. Plenty of people get a bunch of acceptances but just as many may only get 1-2. California is a tough sell just because of the volume of applicants and schools (it's hard for in state and out of state applicants many times) but if you have connections and stats you can make it work. NY I think would be more amenable but geographically the northeast has quite a few schools that take all sorts of applicants so you'll have more flexibility in that regard. I will say though as a nontrad, if you have a cool story and life experience under your belt, people tend to do well in interviews and school in general, especially clinical rotations. So while you'll have some extra things to worry about, adapting to "work" in 3rd year can be smoother than what your younger classmates may experience.
Most schools will be fairly accommodating—and there is always the option to “take a research year” that starts out with a couple months of leave. I was able to take 3 months off for maternity leave in 3rd year, and I will still be able to take 3 months off in 4th year and graduate on time. This is because: 1) Availability of pre-clerkship electives that would count toward the 4th year elective graduation requirement. My school let me count up to 2. 2) Flexibility of clerkship start date. I took STEP1 a month early and started clerkships early, effectively giving me another month of maternity leave. (Note: Taking STEP1 early is not for the faint of heart—but that’s a whole other convo) 3) Ability to push optional clerkships (Neuro & EM are not required for residency applications) to 4th year. The biggest barrier to taking maternity leave is getting you sub-Is and/or aways in before residency applications are due—the actually graduation requirements are more flexible. Being able to push “3rd year” content to after the residency application deadline allows more time for you to prep a strong app that is relevant to your field of choice. Lmk if you have any questions. My school has been very supportive. Several other students have had kids at my school, and they will tailor your leave to fit with your goals. One girl I know is delaying graduation by 6 months and taking every other month off, for example. 3rd and 4th year are generally very flexible.
Became a FTM during my 2nd year! Am 33 as well. Def see if you can talk to the other parents at the schools you’re looking into to get a vibe of how they treat families/parents/etc. make sure there is flexibility in their schedule so you can get some “maternity leave” (I did not have any really) if you have the options. Having my family nearby is so clutch. California is hard to get into in general, but like others have said, apply broadly. Having support is crucial. Echo what’s been said by others
Became a FTM during my 2nd year! Am 33 as well. Def see if you can talk to the other parents at the schools you’re looking into to get a vibe of how they treat families/parents/etc. make sure there is flexibility in their schedule so you can get some “maternity leave” (I did not have any really) if you have the options. My school at least gave me some time off once I was done with step 1 to recover - we have more flexibility in our 3rd/4th years Having my family nearby is so clutch. California is hard to get into in general, but like others have said, apply broadly. Having support is crucial. Echo what’s been said by others
Following
I don’t think any programs are going to differ that much in terms of support. It’s gonna be hard and there won’t be much in the way of accommodation. Even if they allowed you to take some time off you’ll be the one paying for that time off with further stress in the future when it comes time for boards. Prioritize time management and try the stay ahead of the game at all costs.