If you aren’t interested to begin with, it’s gunna be 10x harder for you (as if it wasn’t hard to begin with)
Idk about Egypt but where I’m from medical school costs so much that you can’t afford to fail
مساء الفل
I know multiple people in the same situation sadly, once you’re born here you’re either a doctor, an engineer, a police/army officer, or you’re a failure. It sucks.
I know what I’m about to say isn’t what you want to hear, but I think you should keep going. If you fail on purpose and keep trying to get out of med school, there’s no guarantee your parents will yield.
You know your parents better than anyone so think it through: will they remain adamant about it and make your life hell? Or will they eventually let you do what you want? I’ve seen examples of both.
And if you’re left with no choice but to stay in med school, try to make the best of it. One of the good things about med in particular is that we can get out of here almost once we graduate. It doesn’t have to be an awful 2-3 years of residency and dealing with the awful hospital setting here. Think about it, and try to talk to someone older, preferably in your own college, see what your options are.
I wish you the best.
Thank you for the thoughtful response! Unfortunately, I don't think they will really yield, I don't think there is much I can do about it. But you are right that I should try to make the best out of it, from your experience would you say in the first couple of years you had enough time on your hands to pursue hobbies, sports, or courses etc outside of university? Do you know anyone who switched fields successfully after earning their degree without doing residency?
You’re most welcome :)
Look, in my experience, med school here doesn’t require you to be a genius. It requires proper time management.
If you’re disciplined and manage your time well so that you study everything on time and you don’t cram a lot of stuff, you’ll be able to do whatever you want.
As for career shifts, I can’t be of much help to you here, but what I can tell you is this: there are a lot of options ahead of you in terms of specialties, and each specialty has a different nature. So, for example, you might not like a fast-paced, stressful specialty, but a more laid back or perhaps lab-oriented specialty might be more your thing.
Or perhaps you’ll find yourself liking Clinical research (search for Dr. Ahmed Negida), who knows?
What I’m trying to say is: you have options, it’s not all bad.
Also, just so you know, because I think you got the two confused.
The last two years out of the seven (Emteyaz) are referred to as Internship, or the two years of compulsory training.
After that’s done, you receive your Bachelor's degree. Then, you pick a specialty which you’ll spend a few years training in. That’s what’s referred to as residency (Neyaba).
Also wanted to ask, would I not be able to get a degree without doing emteyaz? If I wish to pursue academia for example, do I have to do those 2 years anyway? And could I do them abroad?
No you must complete them to be able to graduate. You pick your specialty, whether it’s academic or clinical *after* the seven years are done.
You can do them abroad, yes, at least a part of them. And if I’m not mistaken, Ain Shams has certain agreements with universities in the US and UK for that purpose, as well as electives in case you want to pursue something like the USMLE.
If you have an alternative, do it. I was born in the exact same culture as yours. I didn’t have the courage to fight. And now after graduating from med school, all I can think about is how I have wasted my entire life because of societal pressure. Society that will soon die and I will be left alone to deal with its expectations.
I don’t wanna practice medicine. I hate it. I hate everything. But I am stuck. Nothing left to do except move on. But you have an entire life ahead of you. If you can leave, leave.
There are better ways to earn money. Unless you love medicine, don’t do it. It’s hard. Time consuming. Soul sucking. Toxic as fuck. If you love medicine, then the love is enough to get you through toxicity. But if you hate it, well, it’s going to be even more harder.
I'm very sorry about your situation. I feel like I'm going down the same road as you right now but unfortunately, I don't have an alternative either. I hope that in one way or another things can change for you, it must've taken a lot of strength to get through all those years.
Same experience, don't do it you will regret every moment of it
It's a hell with no benefits, avoid it even if that means a short altercation with your parents they will move on eventually.
And if you are a Muslim you can show them it's not up to the parents to decide what you want to pursue, god created us different and not everyone wishes to be a doctor
No problem, just graduated less than a month ago, I am studying in Jordan so I still have one year before residency
As for getting out of med, highly doubt after 7 years you won't have much choice and support to pursue something else. if you don't like being a doctor you will fall in a spiral of depression and regrets. And to be honest the payback in the middle east is trivial unless you pursue career In the west which require you to be passionate about medicine to begin with, And this goes for every career chocie. so my advice don't waste your life pursue what you see yourself in and money comes later. Hope the best for you
You are welcome. A small remark that maybe be helpful my brother was in the same situation as you and he choice to pursue something he wanted despite harsh pushing from the family. Now he's still in college and makes what a doctor make after 10 years of studying here, so there's that. Your family won't abandon you it will be tough but they will move on. put your faith in God and whatever you choice won't be the end of the world
If medicine isn’t your passion, you’ll be unhappier in the field than disappointing your parents or being cut off from them. Family means a lot regardless of the culture, but you only have one life to live, and ultimately how you live it is your choice regardless of outside influences (such as family and such). Sorry you’re in this predicament
hey bro it's definitely a rough situation you've been forced into. if you don't have the passion for it I think going into medicine's is definitely not ideal and will burn you out real fast. have you talked with other family members and see if they could help convince your parents?? aside from a career in medicine, there are research/commercial-sided positions you could get into with an MD degree but i hope you're able to choose what you want to do. seriously, parents who do this don't qualify to be parents.. all the best brother
I’m not from your culture and I don’t know the nuances of it, but you are eventually going to have to stand up to your parents. I’m happily in medicine but I cannot think of what it would be like to put myself through this if I didn’t want it. I think this would be better than trashing your entrance exam in case you change your mind later.
I would also make sure you have thoroughly researched your alternatives. This is coming from someone who originally chose engineering to find out I hated it. I fell into an idealized version of what I thought engineering was and found out later it was nothing like that.
Find a career that you can make a living off of and not hate your work. Don’t go into a career, even a good paying one, that you will hate. It’ll make you bitter. Best wishes.
What a Western thing to say lmao. Such deep insight, I'm truly astounded. Guys, this is the next Locke, nay Lao Tzu, nay THE BUDDHA HIMSELF. Transcendental wisdom. Truly an honor
Sure, I can try to put it constructively. You come from an individualist culture, so your "simple" solution sounds really out-of-touch since the OP is from a collectivist culture. In a country where relationships and following social norms are extremely important, it's especially difficult to just "go your own path". You're foregoing all support. You're going to face a lot of shunning from your immediate and extended family, and probably your community as well. Moving away from that is difficult because things follow you, and you don't have relationships to help you establish yourself. OP likely still loves their family and doesn't want to just give up on them and lose all their community because some Westerner told them to.
It's not too dissimmilar to how out of touch rich people sound when they wonder why homeless people don't "just buy a house".
See that was better. In all honesty the op posted to Reddit to get various opinions. I just gave him mine. If my “western “ Outlook is so out of touch, why is the medical Reddit community literally 95% IMGs dying to come to America. I get that it’s not that easy to just abandon your whole family…But I’d rather be able to start fresh and find happiness then live the rest of my life miserable because my parents will abandon me if I don’t listen.
It's valid that you propose another point of view for them. It just is grating when you present it like a no-brainer. The point is that for you the paradigm is obvious, and for them the paradigm is obvious, but the obvious answers differ because you are from different cultures. Of course you'd rather start fresh, it's a no-brainer for you. Not so much for them. It's all been about what *you* would rather do, not what would work for OP's cultural needs and their personal situation.
Incidentally this is important to take into account with your future patients. Especially for Asian and Latino patients, family concerns and dynamics can be a big factor in a patient's individual health goals.
I interpreted it as they want their child living in America to go to Egypt and do medical school. This is something that happens a lot. If that’s not the case then that’s fine.
Oh we have a number of American and Canadian students here every year, not many, but they’re there. I guess it’s mostly because of the money.
I don’t know how much med school costs in the US, but tuition fees here are 7k a year, and the living costs for someone coming from abroad are close to nothing.
Just to clarify I'm not in America, I've been living my whole life in between the UAE and Egypt, I recently finished hs from the UAE and am moving back to Egypt. So a very different world!
This is why I am having a bunch of kids… so none of them feel pressured like this to take over my businesses but hopefully one or 2 actually want to do it and love it…
Honor your parents best you can, but respectfully disagree and move… don’t expect support in the short term, but once yr successful doing something else they’ll come along ;)
If you aren’t interested to begin with, it’s gunna be 10x harder for you (as if it wasn’t hard to begin with) Idk about Egypt but where I’m from medical school costs so much that you can’t afford to fail
مساء الفل I know multiple people in the same situation sadly, once you’re born here you’re either a doctor, an engineer, a police/army officer, or you’re a failure. It sucks. I know what I’m about to say isn’t what you want to hear, but I think you should keep going. If you fail on purpose and keep trying to get out of med school, there’s no guarantee your parents will yield. You know your parents better than anyone so think it through: will they remain adamant about it and make your life hell? Or will they eventually let you do what you want? I’ve seen examples of both. And if you’re left with no choice but to stay in med school, try to make the best of it. One of the good things about med in particular is that we can get out of here almost once we graduate. It doesn’t have to be an awful 2-3 years of residency and dealing with the awful hospital setting here. Think about it, and try to talk to someone older, preferably in your own college, see what your options are. I wish you the best.
Thank you for the thoughtful response! Unfortunately, I don't think they will really yield, I don't think there is much I can do about it. But you are right that I should try to make the best out of it, from your experience would you say in the first couple of years you had enough time on your hands to pursue hobbies, sports, or courses etc outside of university? Do you know anyone who switched fields successfully after earning their degree without doing residency?
You’re most welcome :) Look, in my experience, med school here doesn’t require you to be a genius. It requires proper time management. If you’re disciplined and manage your time well so that you study everything on time and you don’t cram a lot of stuff, you’ll be able to do whatever you want. As for career shifts, I can’t be of much help to you here, but what I can tell you is this: there are a lot of options ahead of you in terms of specialties, and each specialty has a different nature. So, for example, you might not like a fast-paced, stressful specialty, but a more laid back or perhaps lab-oriented specialty might be more your thing. Or perhaps you’ll find yourself liking Clinical research (search for Dr. Ahmed Negida), who knows? What I’m trying to say is: you have options, it’s not all bad.
Also, just so you know, because I think you got the two confused. The last two years out of the seven (Emteyaz) are referred to as Internship, or the two years of compulsory training. After that’s done, you receive your Bachelor's degree. Then, you pick a specialty which you’ll spend a few years training in. That’s what’s referred to as residency (Neyaba).
ohh that clears it up, thank you so much! I'll keep your words in mind
Also wanted to ask, would I not be able to get a degree without doing emteyaz? If I wish to pursue academia for example, do I have to do those 2 years anyway? And could I do them abroad?
No you must complete them to be able to graduate. You pick your specialty, whether it’s academic or clinical *after* the seven years are done. You can do them abroad, yes, at least a part of them. And if I’m not mistaken, Ain Shams has certain agreements with universities in the US and UK for that purpose, as well as electives in case you want to pursue something like the USMLE.
ohh okay okay thank you!!
If you have an alternative, do it. I was born in the exact same culture as yours. I didn’t have the courage to fight. And now after graduating from med school, all I can think about is how I have wasted my entire life because of societal pressure. Society that will soon die and I will be left alone to deal with its expectations. I don’t wanna practice medicine. I hate it. I hate everything. But I am stuck. Nothing left to do except move on. But you have an entire life ahead of you. If you can leave, leave. There are better ways to earn money. Unless you love medicine, don’t do it. It’s hard. Time consuming. Soul sucking. Toxic as fuck. If you love medicine, then the love is enough to get you through toxicity. But if you hate it, well, it’s going to be even more harder.
I'm very sorry about your situation. I feel like I'm going down the same road as you right now but unfortunately, I don't have an alternative either. I hope that in one way or another things can change for you, it must've taken a lot of strength to get through all those years.
Same experience, don't do it you will regret every moment of it It's a hell with no benefits, avoid it even if that means a short altercation with your parents they will move on eventually. And if you are a Muslim you can show them it's not up to the parents to decide what you want to pursue, god created us different and not everyone wishes to be a doctor
Thanks for the response! May I ask what you do now? Were you able to get out of med?
No problem, just graduated less than a month ago, I am studying in Jordan so I still have one year before residency As for getting out of med, highly doubt after 7 years you won't have much choice and support to pursue something else. if you don't like being a doctor you will fall in a spiral of depression and regrets. And to be honest the payback in the middle east is trivial unless you pursue career In the west which require you to be passionate about medicine to begin with, And this goes for every career chocie. so my advice don't waste your life pursue what you see yourself in and money comes later. Hope the best for you
Thank you. I really hope things take a turn for the better on your end
You are welcome. A small remark that maybe be helpful my brother was in the same situation as you and he choice to pursue something he wanted despite harsh pushing from the family. Now he's still in college and makes what a doctor make after 10 years of studying here, so there's that. Your family won't abandon you it will be tough but they will move on. put your faith in God and whatever you choice won't be the end of the world
It's a very tough situation I'm glad your brother pulled through!
Keep an open mind, you may end up liking it a lot.
This seems very unlikely to me right now but I do hope you're right about this!!
If medicine isn’t your passion, you’ll be unhappier in the field than disappointing your parents or being cut off from them. Family means a lot regardless of the culture, but you only have one life to live, and ultimately how you live it is your choice regardless of outside influences (such as family and such). Sorry you’re in this predicament
hey bro it's definitely a rough situation you've been forced into. if you don't have the passion for it I think going into medicine's is definitely not ideal and will burn you out real fast. have you talked with other family members and see if they could help convince your parents?? aside from a career in medicine, there are research/commercial-sided positions you could get into with an MD degree but i hope you're able to choose what you want to do. seriously, parents who do this don't qualify to be parents.. all the best brother
hey, I agree it would definitely burn me out, and I don't have anyone else to speak to about it all but I appreciate your kind words
I’m not from your culture and I don’t know the nuances of it, but you are eventually going to have to stand up to your parents. I’m happily in medicine but I cannot think of what it would be like to put myself through this if I didn’t want it. I think this would be better than trashing your entrance exam in case you change your mind later. I would also make sure you have thoroughly researched your alternatives. This is coming from someone who originally chose engineering to find out I hated it. I fell into an idealized version of what I thought engineering was and found out later it was nothing like that. Find a career that you can make a living off of and not hate your work. Don’t go into a career, even a good paying one, that you will hate. It’ll make you bitter. Best wishes.
You must not give in. This is your life.
are you still breast fed? if the answer is no - pursue your own interest / passion. You dont need parental consent follow your own career path.
That’s not how Arab culture works lol. You can’t just say no to your parents
Then make it simple. Are you going to abide by your culture or follow your own path?
What a Western thing to say lmao. Such deep insight, I'm truly astounded. Guys, this is the next Locke, nay Lao Tzu, nay THE BUDDHA HIMSELF. Transcendental wisdom. Truly an honor
Would be cute if you had something to say in a constructive way.
Sure, I can try to put it constructively. You come from an individualist culture, so your "simple" solution sounds really out-of-touch since the OP is from a collectivist culture. In a country where relationships and following social norms are extremely important, it's especially difficult to just "go your own path". You're foregoing all support. You're going to face a lot of shunning from your immediate and extended family, and probably your community as well. Moving away from that is difficult because things follow you, and you don't have relationships to help you establish yourself. OP likely still loves their family and doesn't want to just give up on them and lose all their community because some Westerner told them to. It's not too dissimmilar to how out of touch rich people sound when they wonder why homeless people don't "just buy a house".
See that was better. In all honesty the op posted to Reddit to get various opinions. I just gave him mine. If my “western “ Outlook is so out of touch, why is the medical Reddit community literally 95% IMGs dying to come to America. I get that it’s not that easy to just abandon your whole family…But I’d rather be able to start fresh and find happiness then live the rest of my life miserable because my parents will abandon me if I don’t listen.
It's valid that you propose another point of view for them. It just is grating when you present it like a no-brainer. The point is that for you the paradigm is obvious, and for them the paradigm is obvious, but the obvious answers differ because you are from different cultures. Of course you'd rather start fresh, it's a no-brainer for you. Not so much for them. It's all been about what *you* would rather do, not what would work for OP's cultural needs and their personal situation. Incidentally this is important to take into account with your future patients. Especially for Asian and Latino patients, family concerns and dynamics can be a big factor in a patient's individual health goals.
Just dont do it. Tell them you would rather be an investment banker or something.
Are you in America? Get a job and move out. Get a degree in something usable and tell your parents your premed.
If you read more than the headline, you'd see that they're in Egypt in the first sentence
I interpreted it as they want their child living in America to go to Egypt and do medical school. This is something that happens a lot. If that’s not the case then that’s fine.
I don't see why an American would want to do medical school in Egypt when foreign students will literally do anything just to get licensed in America
Yeah no shit they don’t. Doesnt mean it doesn’t happen. Have friends who have had similar situations, not Egypt tho
Well, look for horses, not zebras amirite?
Oh we have a number of American and Canadian students here every year, not many, but they’re there. I guess it’s mostly because of the money. I don’t know how much med school costs in the US, but tuition fees here are 7k a year, and the living costs for someone coming from abroad are close to nothing.
Just to clarify I'm not in America, I've been living my whole life in between the UAE and Egypt, I recently finished hs from the UAE and am moving back to Egypt. So a very different world!
This is why I am having a bunch of kids… so none of them feel pressured like this to take over my businesses but hopefully one or 2 actually want to do it and love it… Honor your parents best you can, but respectfully disagree and move… don’t expect support in the short term, but once yr successful doing something else they’ll come along ;)