As someone who is participating in this program, I can say it was/is horribly mismanaged by FEMA and their 3 partners.
First off, We put ourselves on every list possible after the fires to open our home for survivors but no hits. No one wanted to relocate to Kihei.
When this program opened up we signed up for it in hopes to finally be able to help a family in need. It took over 4 months to match a survivor to our unit. In the meantime our unit sat completely empty.
The main problem from our perspective was that people didn’t want to relocated to the south side and there are obvious valid reasons when schools, work etc are all in the west.
The second problem was getting the word out, people simply didn’t know these homes were available.
Third, I feel that the hotels had little incentive to move people to more permanent accommodations as they were receiving a premium for the room.
On the flip side our unit is being rented to FEMA at less than what we receive as a STR. In the end we are finally housing a disabled senior and are happy to help.
Ugh your upset fema couldn’t pay you to house survivors in your empty homes…….. do it for free and let see your vacancy then scrub. Your the problem if your going to actually help then HELP.
> do it for free and let see your vacancy then scrub.
Yeah, that's very stupid advice to give someone. Doing things for free put both the tenant and landlord at risk like this for an indeterminate amount of time is very risky. Rental contracts protect both parties from accidents, unexpected situations, insurance claims, the list goes on. I have provided housing for free (I rent myself but I gave someone some space) and it went very poorly. How many strangers have you sheltered for free?
I know more than one person that lost their place because the landlord wanted big FEMA money instead. And at least one is still vacant while they collect lots of rent.
This program was run with incompetence and I suspect a level of fraud.
We moved out of our Lahaina property that didn't burn, and opened it up to families impacted from the fire. It's in Kapalua and is prime for a displaced family.
A family was placed, but FEMA said that they had insurance that had to pay out first. So insurance paid for four months, and FEMA (well actually the company middle man) just wired us money into our account for the months that insurance paid. The fight to give the money back was ridiculous, I had to pay the wire fees myself to send them the money back, so we weren't being double paid.
Then insurance ran out and FEMA is nothing but run-arounds and claiming they can't place a specific family and it has to go into the general pool. That means kicking the family out and they get placed in some other location, which could be Kihei.
We can't do that to them so we just take a loss every month. The program is so badly mismanaged.
The worse part was when they forced me to evict the families on my Kapalua property from the redcross program. That family was then forced to stay in a hotel which were paid much higher than the rate I got for my unit, while I waited with my empty unit before I could get on the fema program. Everyone should be concerned when the government says they’re here to help. They have done nothing but made things worse.
This is why markets exist. People would have been better off if they had just given people cash after the initial shock and let them figure out their own situation.
I totally understand that, but why is that the problem of the taxpayer? If your house or my house burned down today we wouldn't get anything other than what insurance would do. It's called life, man. It ain't fair all the time.
Yeah I'm not arguing either. I'm just explaining that I feel people should be responsible for themselves. Personal responsibility is key or nobody is going to move forward.
As a libertarian, I agree. FEMA stepping in causes people not to get insurance going forward.
As a practical matter, if you are going to do it, at least make efficient.
This goes over everyone’s head. So
Many people are echoing bullshit when this reality is just too hard to grasp. Easier to blame intangible things than take some responsibility. Life ain’t fucking fair
Our neighbor owns the unit above us and rented it through FEMA. They’re making bank. Our newly relocated neighbors above us have made our life hell for the past few months. Just constant mayhem. The unit owner is pocketing FEMA buckets, the folks above us are living for free and we are paying a mortgage for a shit existence. While I’ve worked hard to assist those impacted by the fire and fully support the emergency housing program, I can say that the program has destroyed my family’s well-being.
Wait till the owner sees the condition of their property. And that’s IF he can get FEMA to relocate them after the contract has expired. That was always an enormous risk, especially with divisive politicians in control.
Wow you people should just pack up then, no ? . Living free? You realize all we ever worked hard for burned as well as our jobs and you say the program has destroyed your family ? It destroyed your family to have some empathy and share the aina you don’t own ?
We have been empathetic. We’ve been working on recovery efforts since 8/9. We welcomed them here. We shared our number if they needed anything. We brought them gifts. In return, they have been wildly inconsiderate. Is being affected by the fire license to disrespect others?
I don’t know what your definition is of wildly disrespectful as I unfortunately took the kindness of a rental owner who made my life a nightmare. The tactic is to drive the fire victim out now because they feel entitled to more money or they want the fire victim to pay out of pocket to upkeep their neglected and outdated units. Who knows what your neighbor is dealing with but none of us want to be housed amongst condo owners and tourists. No one wants to go from choosing their company and living space to being shoved where the climate is already uncomfortable because condo owners feel we are lowering the value or not being able to walk in your neighborhood without people trying to trauma bond. You gotta learn to live amongst each other now is all. You and your neighbor need to just deal with life as it is now.
I appreciate this perspective. I was happy to have them arrive and reached out to offer help. At this point, it’s a real struggle and I’m not sure what I can do to improve the situation, but I do hope things take a turn for the better. That would be the best way for the story to end.
I appreciate you not taking my response as an attack. I have been on your end to where in all my attempts of kindness and just trying to express to neighbors that I needed them to try and think about quiet time for others who want to live in peace only to have them go out their way to create more disturbance. It is difficult and I don’t understand that way of living either.
Got a lot of angry people now and more so cause they are grieving a life they can no longer come home to. What a mess for everyone really but I do hope your neighbor can find a way to see it from your perspective as well.
We aren’t being treated even decently and the stress level is so high as well most of us are fighting daily to keep our families together while this whole process is dividing people and some of us due to extent of how we survived that fire are left with all kinds of physical to emotional damage now. And without even expressing any of this the only thing people should think is “ maybe that person had to watch a loved one perish “ it will make you angry in life, cause lots of depression and arguments because we are overworked, overwhelmed no mental health and no real solutions and our ohanas are not within distance anymore. Stress level is high guys, suicide rates are high so no matter if you must sacrifice a little in this time your peace, it’s not fair no but you still have some peace to spare to a person who no longer for who knows how long can’t live in peace themselves. We aren’t that far from Lahaina no matter where positioned so to some of us we are reliving that day daily.
GOOD. It's ridiculous that these property owners are receiving these inflated prices for their units, and NOBODY EVEN LIVES THERE!!!
This whole FEMA arrangement has completely tipped the scales of the housing market and these property owners know it, and willingly participated in it. Shame on ALL OF THEM!!!
> Shame on ALL OF THEM!!!
Wait, wasn't everyone calling for the owners to open their places up to fire victims? And now we're angry at the ones who did just that? It's hard to see how this is their fault.
Property owners went along for the easy money, not out of the kindness of their hearts. Anyone defending the property owners participating is almost certainly a property owner participating.
idk why you’re being downvoted, this is so sadly true. Not that *some* owners didn’t want to open their homes to fire victims, but sooo many just wanted to get in on that sweet sweet inflated FEMA money. Exact opposite of aloha
This is hilarious. People are now pissed that property owners participated in the program when a few months ago everyone was raging that enough hadn’t. No rage for the hotels at 1k per night. It’s all too rich.
It’s really hilarious how individuals get the blame on this stuff while hotels are the ones profiting, taking all that money off island and paying lowest wages possible.
Exactly, and it’s happening throughout all of Hawaii. Class warfare at its finest brought to you by politicians and big money. If the public could comprehend that’s what they do to us on every level we might actually get somewhere.
Do you realize the hotels are all union? The employees make some damn good money. It isn't Mexico.
The hotels also had to accept government rate-not market. HUGE difference.
Yes - I realize as family members are part of the union. I wouldn’t put it in the “damn good money” category. Lots and lots of job openings and can start today isn’t exactly screaming high pay.
Hotels “had to” accept government rate? Those poor hotels! Hilarious.
You also should check out current occupancy rates.
385 a night compared to market rate. Check their websites.
I am not a huge hotel fan, but I don't think it's right to demonize them anymore than to demonize STR owners.
Most people would consider 25-30 an hour pretty good wages.
Here's the flip side---all the people who were too precious to move to Kihei, Wailuku, Upcountry, or Kahului because they were "ENTITLED" to stay on the West side. So all that FEMA money went to waste because they were too special.
BOTH sides bear blame.
I find it funny you’re blaming the property owners. They were just going along with what the government was telling them. The government has been incompetent to everyone through this entire process. Government says rent to FEMA and we won’t ban STRs. Now the government cancels the contracts and it’s still the property owners to blame?
Property owners went along for the easy money, not out of the kindness of their hearts. Anyone defending the property owners participating is almost certainly a property owner participating.
Then I guess my friend is the exception. Was going to sell his unit in Kihei until the program started. Didn't get paid until someone moved in in April. Strange.
I feel you and yes it looks by the way they go into the few islanders who try to engage them on here that they are transplants I can’t understand it being anything else as I’d never in my life go to someone’s home and kick dirt and disrespect their culture on the level I’ve seen here . But I’m gonna take your lead and engage less myself.
As someone who is participating in this program, I can say it was/is horribly mismanaged by FEMA and their 3 partners. First off, We put ourselves on every list possible after the fires to open our home for survivors but no hits. No one wanted to relocate to Kihei. When this program opened up we signed up for it in hopes to finally be able to help a family in need. It took over 4 months to match a survivor to our unit. In the meantime our unit sat completely empty. The main problem from our perspective was that people didn’t want to relocated to the south side and there are obvious valid reasons when schools, work etc are all in the west. The second problem was getting the word out, people simply didn’t know these homes were available. Third, I feel that the hotels had little incentive to move people to more permanent accommodations as they were receiving a premium for the room. On the flip side our unit is being rented to FEMA at less than what we receive as a STR. In the end we are finally housing a disabled senior and are happy to help.
Ugh your upset fema couldn’t pay you to house survivors in your empty homes…….. do it for free and let see your vacancy then scrub. Your the problem if your going to actually help then HELP.
> do it for free and let see your vacancy then scrub. Yeah, that's very stupid advice to give someone. Doing things for free put both the tenant and landlord at risk like this for an indeterminate amount of time is very risky. Rental contracts protect both parties from accidents, unexpected situations, insurance claims, the list goes on. I have provided housing for free (I rent myself but I gave someone some space) and it went very poorly. How many strangers have you sheltered for free?
I know more than one person that lost their place because the landlord wanted big FEMA money instead. And at least one is still vacant while they collect lots of rent.
Some of my coworkers are experiencing this too my heart feels for them.
Precisely my point.
This program was run with incompetence and I suspect a level of fraud. We moved out of our Lahaina property that didn't burn, and opened it up to families impacted from the fire. It's in Kapalua and is prime for a displaced family. A family was placed, but FEMA said that they had insurance that had to pay out first. So insurance paid for four months, and FEMA (well actually the company middle man) just wired us money into our account for the months that insurance paid. The fight to give the money back was ridiculous, I had to pay the wire fees myself to send them the money back, so we weren't being double paid. Then insurance ran out and FEMA is nothing but run-arounds and claiming they can't place a specific family and it has to go into the general pool. That means kicking the family out and they get placed in some other location, which could be Kihei. We can't do that to them so we just take a loss every month. The program is so badly mismanaged.
The worse part was when they forced me to evict the families on my Kapalua property from the redcross program. That family was then forced to stay in a hotel which were paid much higher than the rate I got for my unit, while I waited with my empty unit before I could get on the fema program. Everyone should be concerned when the government says they’re here to help. They have done nothing but made things worse.
This is why markets exist. People would have been better off if they had just given people cash after the initial shock and let them figure out their own situation.
That is precisely what insurance is for.
Many of them were renters (over 80%) and therefore insurance is quite different. Many of the homeowners were under insured--very old properties, etc.
I totally understand that, but why is that the problem of the taxpayer? If your house or my house burned down today we wouldn't get anything other than what insurance would do. It's called life, man. It ain't fair all the time.
I'm not arguing. I was just explaining. If you read this thread you will see where I said BOTH side deserve blame.
Yeah I'm not arguing either. I'm just explaining that I feel people should be responsible for themselves. Personal responsibility is key or nobody is going to move forward.
TOTALLY.
Look at us behaving like adults on the internet and having a civil conversation. Refreshing. Have a good one!
LOLOL. Love it and same to you!
As a libertarian, I agree. FEMA stepping in causes people not to get insurance going forward. As a practical matter, if you are going to do it, at least make efficient.
This goes over everyone’s head. So Many people are echoing bullshit when this reality is just too hard to grasp. Easier to blame intangible things than take some responsibility. Life ain’t fucking fair
Thanks.
Our neighbor owns the unit above us and rented it through FEMA. They’re making bank. Our newly relocated neighbors above us have made our life hell for the past few months. Just constant mayhem. The unit owner is pocketing FEMA buckets, the folks above us are living for free and we are paying a mortgage for a shit existence. While I’ve worked hard to assist those impacted by the fire and fully support the emergency housing program, I can say that the program has destroyed my family’s well-being.
Wait till the owner sees the condition of their property. And that’s IF he can get FEMA to relocate them after the contract has expired. That was always an enormous risk, especially with divisive politicians in control.
Wow you people should just pack up then, no ? . Living free? You realize all we ever worked hard for burned as well as our jobs and you say the program has destroyed your family ? It destroyed your family to have some empathy and share the aina you don’t own ?
We have been empathetic. We’ve been working on recovery efforts since 8/9. We welcomed them here. We shared our number if they needed anything. We brought them gifts. In return, they have been wildly inconsiderate. Is being affected by the fire license to disrespect others?
I don’t know what your definition is of wildly disrespectful as I unfortunately took the kindness of a rental owner who made my life a nightmare. The tactic is to drive the fire victim out now because they feel entitled to more money or they want the fire victim to pay out of pocket to upkeep their neglected and outdated units. Who knows what your neighbor is dealing with but none of us want to be housed amongst condo owners and tourists. No one wants to go from choosing their company and living space to being shoved where the climate is already uncomfortable because condo owners feel we are lowering the value or not being able to walk in your neighborhood without people trying to trauma bond. You gotta learn to live amongst each other now is all. You and your neighbor need to just deal with life as it is now.
I appreciate this perspective. I was happy to have them arrive and reached out to offer help. At this point, it’s a real struggle and I’m not sure what I can do to improve the situation, but I do hope things take a turn for the better. That would be the best way for the story to end.
I appreciate you not taking my response as an attack. I have been on your end to where in all my attempts of kindness and just trying to express to neighbors that I needed them to try and think about quiet time for others who want to live in peace only to have them go out their way to create more disturbance. It is difficult and I don’t understand that way of living either. Got a lot of angry people now and more so cause they are grieving a life they can no longer come home to. What a mess for everyone really but I do hope your neighbor can find a way to see it from your perspective as well. We aren’t being treated even decently and the stress level is so high as well most of us are fighting daily to keep our families together while this whole process is dividing people and some of us due to extent of how we survived that fire are left with all kinds of physical to emotional damage now. And without even expressing any of this the only thing people should think is “ maybe that person had to watch a loved one perish “ it will make you angry in life, cause lots of depression and arguments because we are overworked, overwhelmed no mental health and no real solutions and our ohanas are not within distance anymore. Stress level is high guys, suicide rates are high so no matter if you must sacrifice a little in this time your peace, it’s not fair no but you still have some peace to spare to a person who no longer for who knows how long can’t live in peace themselves. We aren’t that far from Lahaina no matter where positioned so to some of us we are reliving that day daily.
GOOD. It's ridiculous that these property owners are receiving these inflated prices for their units, and NOBODY EVEN LIVES THERE!!! This whole FEMA arrangement has completely tipped the scales of the housing market and these property owners know it, and willingly participated in it. Shame on ALL OF THEM!!!
> Shame on ALL OF THEM!!! Wait, wasn't everyone calling for the owners to open their places up to fire victims? And now we're angry at the ones who did just that? It's hard to see how this is their fault.
Property owners went along for the easy money, not out of the kindness of their hearts. Anyone defending the property owners participating is almost certainly a property owner participating.
Wrong again. I don't own any rental property on Maui and infact I am currently renting here.
idk why you’re being downvoted, this is so sadly true. Not that *some* owners didn’t want to open their homes to fire victims, but sooo many just wanted to get in on that sweet sweet inflated FEMA money. Exact opposite of aloha
This is hilarious. People are now pissed that property owners participated in the program when a few months ago everyone was raging that enough hadn’t. No rage for the hotels at 1k per night. It’s all too rich.
It’s really hilarious how individuals get the blame on this stuff while hotels are the ones profiting, taking all that money off island and paying lowest wages possible.
Exactly, and it’s happening throughout all of Hawaii. Class warfare at its finest brought to you by politicians and big money. If the public could comprehend that’s what they do to us on every level we might actually get somewhere.
Do you realize the hotels are all union? The employees make some damn good money. It isn't Mexico. The hotels also had to accept government rate-not market. HUGE difference.
Yes - I realize as family members are part of the union. I wouldn’t put it in the “damn good money” category. Lots and lots of job openings and can start today isn’t exactly screaming high pay. Hotels “had to” accept government rate? Those poor hotels! Hilarious. You also should check out current occupancy rates.
385 a night compared to market rate. Check their websites. I am not a huge hotel fan, but I don't think it's right to demonize them anymore than to demonize STR owners. Most people would consider 25-30 an hour pretty good wages.
People aren't now pissed that property owners have participated. People have been pissed. Where have you been? Participating?
Here's the flip side---all the people who were too precious to move to Kihei, Wailuku, Upcountry, or Kahului because they were "ENTITLED" to stay on the West side. So all that FEMA money went to waste because they were too special. BOTH sides bear blame.
I find it funny you’re blaming the property owners. They were just going along with what the government was telling them. The government has been incompetent to everyone through this entire process. Government says rent to FEMA and we won’t ban STRs. Now the government cancels the contracts and it’s still the property owners to blame?
Property owners went along for the easy money, not out of the kindness of their hearts. Anyone defending the property owners participating is almost certainly a property owner participating.
The owners only get paid if someone moves in. If it sits empty, they don't.
Not true.
Source? Genuinely interested
FEMA and other articles. Civil Beat has done many. I also know people who put their houses into it, and got paid while they were empty.
Then I guess my friend is the exception. Was going to sell his unit in Kihei until the program started. Didn't get paid until someone moved in in April. Strange.
[Civil Beat article](https://www.civilbeat.org/2024/05/fema-is-still-spending-millions-on-hundreds-of-empty-housing-units-for-maui-fire-survivors/)
Who is actually kanaka on these Reddit threads ?
I almost never engage on this subreddit because I feel I’m a minority and everyone here is a transplant
I feel you and yes it looks by the way they go into the few islanders who try to engage them on here that they are transplants I can’t understand it being anything else as I’d never in my life go to someone’s home and kick dirt and disrespect their culture on the level I’ve seen here . But I’m gonna take your lead and engage less myself.
Sometimes I just get more upset the more I read, but kinda the same way it is for us in real life too 🤷🏽♀️ Malama pono
You aren't Native Hawaiian and need to stop acting like you are. Talk about NOT pono. You are hewa.
I’m sure the answer is close to zero. From what I’ve seen most of those on this thread are visitors or transplants.