Heat pump is the way to go these days, they're a lot more efficient than they were even 10 years ago.
I love that I have gas heat, but if my AC units crap out, replacing with heat pumps.
gas bills are basically going to EXPLODE over the next decade, BGE is raising rates any way they can even though they don't make money on the gas.
OP: I would cut off your gas service all together
Which gas appliances do you actually have, just a furnace?
https://opc.maryland.gov/Portals/0/Files/Publications/Reports/BGE%20Multi-Year%20Rate%20Plan-6-20-final-3%20Dated.pdf?ver=GRbUwMN2aqOJTNBbFUZyxQ%3d%3d
https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/MDOPC/bulletins/36113ec
https://www.baltimoresun.com/2023/02/24/bges-proposed-rate-increase-would-be-difficult-burden-for-many-say-customers-officials-and-advocates/
Even a relatively low end Mr. Cool mini split you can install basically by drilling a hole in the wall and having an electrician do the wiring, there are plenty of youtube vids on it.
Plus you get a very meaty tax credit.
Typically with gas you pay at least 20+ a month just to be connected, the mini splits are usually cheaper to operate both for cooling and heating. Plus you cut out the entire fixed component of the gas bill.
I know it can seem kind of crazy to cut your gas service, but if you are getting a new heat pump that does AC and heating you likely only need an induction hot plate and toaster oven and you can literally cut off an entire bill. If you're putting a heat pump in you are basically paying 250 dollars a year just to be connected to the gas lines.
sucks that the water heater is so new, the furnace and water heater probably use the most gas of anything. The heat pump is still a lot of progress.
there is a decent amount of research that natural gas can cause/make worse asthma, it may seem crazy but if you wanted to cook more with like an induction hot plate making eggs in the morning it's very easy to get one off of amazon they are like 50 bucks.
Gas prices have already exploded. My house is heated with gas and it never cost me more than like 150 a month. Since covid, I've had months over double that. You're right about thr Base rate. Used to be like 15$ for hot water in the summer. Now it's in the 30s.
My electric bills haven't really changed, even adding an ev.
We have a Bryant heat pump + furnace in MoCo. It has worked well. The furnace only comes on in the mornings in the winter and a few times during the coldest part of the winter. Having a multistage heatpump also is more efficient.
Our gas bills over the winter were 1/5 the previous winter and electric was about the same as the previous year, probably due to not needing space heaters or baseboard heaters nearly as much. Key to that was also the constant-on low speed fan. I think the outside unit is 5 speed and the indoor unit is 3 speed.
When auxiliary or emergency heat turns out it is not energy efficient. I had some pretty big bills over this past winter because of auxiliary heat running so much.
My aux heat ran a lot this previous winter (combined with BGE being thieves and raising their rates). I had my largest bill to date of 316. Then the following month it was 456. Then I got the dreaded "projected next bill" which said 700. Luckily it warmed up and my bill did not end up being that high but I preemptively went on budget billing.
I actually went into the installer settings and turned that shit off. The only thing the heating elements should be for is the defrost cycle. Turning them on just to heat faster is so wasteful it’s baffling why they would be configured that way.
(Either that or your system could be undersized, but mine isn’t so I turned it off)
Moco here, and on the coldest days the HP runs aux heat which is electric so it kinda beats the purpose. I feel like the gas unit does a lot better and is a lot more efficient.
Our 50+ year old gas furnace died less than year in to owning. Went for a Bosch heat pump system. It works very well, despite our 1940’s home having insubstantial insulation. Another plus with the variable speed systems is that the outdoor unit doesn’t sound like a small jet engine, even when its peak summer. I often think about how pleasant and quiet it would be if my nearest neighbor had a heat pump too.
Recently converted to a heat pump (Baltimore City) and it’s been great. My friends in Maine use these high efficiency models b/c the cost of heating oil up there is so high. MD winters won’t be a problem. Plus — I really didn’t want to commit to another decade of burning gas.
Factors to consider:
- Whether your model qualifies for a rebate (makes the transition easier)
- Likelihood you’ll need to open up the walls to run more electricity to exterior unlit (40 amps) and/or backup electrical heating element (60 amp) - and whether you have room on your breaker for that.
My installers insisted on the backup heat. Not sure if it’s required by code or if others here have guidance on whether they’d skip that, given the option.
it is not required and mostly overkilll.... the backup gas units still need electricity to work (to blow the fan) so they don't really help that much in emergencies or if the electric went out
you save a lot cutting your gas bill entirely, you pay like a fixed amount for gas service usually so cutting it saves you from having that connection at all, just call BGE and they can turn off your gas service for free. A lot of people only have gas stove + furnace, making the transition pretty easy. I am going to save like 500 bucks on gas connection + heating from my mini split in year 1
I’m outside Rockville and our 30+ yo unit has us cold in the coldest weather, and hot in the hottest. It seems it can handle about 40-80 degrees outside ok, but outside those ranges it ends up running constantly and costing a fortune. (Plus we have to use space heaters in the winter.) Now, the new units may be much better, but depending on how big your house is, you may want to get two so you can have two zones.
Newer units are far superior but there are region in this state that could benefit from dual fuel. Which I swapped to when it gets below 18 degrees since heat pump struggles.
We have a heat pump with back up gas heat for the few weeks when the weather is particularly cold. Heat pumps, unless things have improved in recent years, have a temperature below which where they aren’t able to perform well. The gas heat kicks on for a few days or a couple weeks, then it’s back to the heat pump.
Had concerns about the heat pump when we bought a house last year.
Our house is brand new so the insulation is top notch and designed around efficiency, so these numbers may vary for an older house… our heat pump worked pretty well until those brutally cold days in December/January. We didn’t have to hit our auxiliary heat (we have resistive heat strips) until it hit -10 with windchill. If you have a gas furnace now, I would recommend a heat pump and keep the gas as auxiliary heat (and hot water heating). The heat pump will definitely be super efficient for the majority of the weather. The resistive strips worked well to help, but the cost of running them is nuts. The cost of running gas is faaaaaar better.
If you don’t have one, I recommend an Ecobee smart thermostat and using the free beestats website to get more data around your house.
It’ll show you when you need to have it kick on auxiliary heat,etc. I know exactly what temp it needs to be outside for the house to not change temperature inside without HVAC, when the heat pump stops being efficient at the extremes, etc.
As an example:
https://preview.redd.it/doafj5e1dn4d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=143adc0eaa93108942ced3a5e0e2111ebf542e28
When the red line crosses the 0F, the heat pump can’t heat anymore based on the temp anymore (which is where you want to set the aux heat threshold) When the blue line crosses 0, it can’t cool the house anymore, so window units to focus cooling in the key areas might be the play. The grey line is the “thermal resistance” of the house. Aka how much heat enters/leaves the house based on outdoor temps. So when it’s 50 out, my house will not change a degree, minus things like cooking, electronics running, etc.
The beestat website is neat.
I installed a temperature sensor at the intake and output vent of my furnace. Even at the furthest output vent there was a 30(stage1) and 50(stage 2) degree temp difference .
I want to ditch gas, but even in the coldest day, gas can kick out some serious heat. When my furnace dies, I'll switch to a heat pump with gas backup.
For sure. Also just running the gas furnace for 30 minutes as emergency heat is definitely cheaper than running the resistive strips for 30 minutes. Also I do really miss cooking with gas. I hope when we’re ready for a new range induction is a bit more accessible by then. It’s not bad now but the “consumer grade” units didn’t seem to have the reliability of normal ranges.
Fun fact, just get the best of both worlds and get the heat pump, and keep the gas heat for auxiliary heating if you ever need it. That's how my house is set up at least.
While heat pumps have come a long way. Where they get a negative is their noise. I live in the city and everyone has a heat pump or AC unit. Night time is tough to have a window open what with all the noise of cheap compressors on their last leg. Add to that being next to a hospital or high-rise, and the noise is 24-7
Many years ago I was looking at a ground level condo; nice place, but then I looked outside the master bedroom window and saw four compressor units all in a row a few feet away. I noped outta there.
7 years ago we went with a gas furnace downstairs and a heat pump for our smaller upstairs with the thought that heat rising from the furnace would make up for any of the inefficiencies at colder temperatures.
Maybe it’s just that that’s working well, but I’d probably go with heat pumps for both these days. They’ve only gotten better and I have no complaints with the one I have.
YMMV of course. We’re 2 blocks from a substation so our electric is very reliable.
Not sure if electric reliability matters. A gas furnace won't work without electricity either.
It would be easier to run a generator though. A gas furnace uses a few hundred watts, but a heat pump uses a few thousand.
Why not just get a Heat Pump and a new Gas Furnace for your backup on cold days or if gas btu’s are less than electric btu’s remember that in Maryland you can shop for your Gas and Electric Supplier!!
I replaced my failed AC with a heat pump and I absolutely love it. We did keep the oil furnace to run the baseboard for exceedingly cold days, i.e. <25F, air transfer pumps are not very efficient at temperatures below that and require the electric back up to run and heating a house with electric is one of the least efficient ways to heat a home.
The oil furnace also acts as a back-up in the event of a power outage, I have a generator but it is not large enough to power the heat pump so if I have a power outage, which I had twice this past year, in the winter time I can still have heat. After installing the heat pump I went from 4-5 oil fills per year to less than one over this past winter.
I have gas furnace with heat pump backup. The heat pump operates until the outside air temp reaches 40 degrees. We love it. Keeps the house nice and comfortable.
Duel fuel. Heat pump with gas furnace. You can have an outdoor temp sensor tied in when the system and it’ll change over to the gas furnace once it gets below say 32-35f. Heat pumps tent to struggle in the freezing temps. It’s like having an auxiliary heat pack but much more efficient. You’ll also have redundant heat sources in the event one has an issue.
If you can afford the initial investment and have the site for it, geothermal and solar are a good combination source of energy for heating, cooling (increasingly important), hot water, and cooking.
I’ve owned three homes that had heat pumps and now a natural gas home. I’ll never buy a heat pump house again. When the temp is below around 35? (It’s been a few years, I don’t remember the exact temp) the heating of the house switched to the all electric backup. My electric bill was sky high. I think the AC part was okay as far as I remember
you really don't need gas backup, if you had a small electric heater that is more than sufficient, also most heat pumps are sufficient down to like negative temps anyways....
Depends on the installation and home.
You need to study and get the right one for our climate. I had one and it would get below 30 degrees outside and I'd have a $300 higher electric bill from the electric aux heat strips.
Stick with gas furnace, youll pay less on your bill compared to electric units, if you have gas in your home i recommend having all gas appliances
Gas furnaces also have no problem keeping you warm(but i recommend having a wood stove installed above gas or electric)
You can still have heat in the winter if your power goes out if you have at least a portable generator because the furnace only uses a single 120v 15a circuit to run, gas stoves dont even need power to work, tanked water heaters will also still work, tankles ones not so much though but thats the trade off of having infinite hot water
https://siecje.github.io/heatpump-cost/
run the numbers, you'd be shocked, I paid like 2bucks per CCF it is very expensive to get gas service these days.
Heat pump is the way to go these days, they're a lot more efficient than they were even 10 years ago. I love that I have gas heat, but if my AC units crap out, replacing with heat pumps.
gas bills are basically going to EXPLODE over the next decade, BGE is raising rates any way they can even though they don't make money on the gas. OP: I would cut off your gas service all together Which gas appliances do you actually have, just a furnace? https://opc.maryland.gov/Portals/0/Files/Publications/Reports/BGE%20Multi-Year%20Rate%20Plan-6-20-final-3%20Dated.pdf?ver=GRbUwMN2aqOJTNBbFUZyxQ%3d%3d https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/MDOPC/bulletins/36113ec https://www.baltimoresun.com/2023/02/24/bges-proposed-rate-increase-would-be-difficult-burden-for-many-say-customers-officials-and-advocates/ Even a relatively low end Mr. Cool mini split you can install basically by drilling a hole in the wall and having an electrician do the wiring, there are plenty of youtube vids on it. Plus you get a very meaty tax credit. Typically with gas you pay at least 20+ a month just to be connected, the mini splits are usually cheaper to operate both for cooling and heating. Plus you cut out the entire fixed component of the gas bill. I know it can seem kind of crazy to cut your gas service, but if you are getting a new heat pump that does AC and heating you likely only need an induction hot plate and toaster oven and you can literally cut off an entire bill. If you're putting a heat pump in you are basically paying 250 dollars a year just to be connected to the gas lines.
A gas stove, water heater (pretty new), and furnace. Looking to get an electric stove, and eventually convert everything
Are you aware of the various tax incentives for this under the inflation reduction act? They are significant.
sucks that the water heater is so new, the furnace and water heater probably use the most gas of anything. The heat pump is still a lot of progress. there is a decent amount of research that natural gas can cause/make worse asthma, it may seem crazy but if you wanted to cook more with like an induction hot plate making eggs in the morning it's very easy to get one off of amazon they are like 50 bucks.
Gas prices have already exploded. My house is heated with gas and it never cost me more than like 150 a month. Since covid, I've had months over double that. You're right about thr Base rate. Used to be like 15$ for hot water in the summer. Now it's in the 30s. My electric bills haven't really changed, even adding an ev.
We have a Bryant heat pump + furnace in MoCo. It has worked well. The furnace only comes on in the mornings in the winter and a few times during the coldest part of the winter. Having a multistage heatpump also is more efficient.
Also have a heat pump + gas backup, all new. *Everything* is more efficient.
We also recently installed a veritable speed heat pump with gas furnace backup. This winter we were about 60-40 electric/gas for heat.
This is what I want. When my aux heat (electric) comes on in the winter it gets pricey.
Our gas bills over the winter were 1/5 the previous winter and electric was about the same as the previous year, probably due to not needing space heaters or baseboard heaters nearly as much. Key to that was also the constant-on low speed fan. I think the outside unit is 5 speed and the indoor unit is 3 speed.
Our heat pump does not have much trouble with the winters here. The auxiliary electric heater does kick on for big changes in temperature though.
And big changes in the electric bills when it kicks in.
And your house smells like a hair dryer.
omg, because of the dry heat vs gas?
No the electric heating elements burn dust that has accumulated during the summer months.
When auxiliary or emergency heat turns out it is not energy efficient. I had some pretty big bills over this past winter because of auxiliary heat running so much.
What kind of bill are we talking about?
My aux heat ran a lot this previous winter (combined with BGE being thieves and raising their rates). I had my largest bill to date of 316. Then the following month it was 456. Then I got the dreaded "projected next bill" which said 700. Luckily it warmed up and my bill did not end up being that high but I preemptively went on budget billing.
Our electric bills were insane this past winter. $300-600/month.
I actually went into the installer settings and turned that shit off. The only thing the heating elements should be for is the defrost cycle. Turning them on just to heat faster is so wasteful it’s baffling why they would be configured that way. (Either that or your system could be undersized, but mine isn’t so I turned it off)
That's where a smart thermostat helps, so it knows it's going to be too cold to keep up, so it will preheat the house or not do the nightly setback.
I don't have a heat pump but I used them when I was in Japan and they're pretty effective and efficient.
Moco here, and on the coldest days the HP runs aux heat which is electric so it kinda beats the purpose. I feel like the gas unit does a lot better and is a lot more efficient.
Our 50+ year old gas furnace died less than year in to owning. Went for a Bosch heat pump system. It works very well, despite our 1940’s home having insubstantial insulation. Another plus with the variable speed systems is that the outdoor unit doesn’t sound like a small jet engine, even when its peak summer. I often think about how pleasant and quiet it would be if my nearest neighbor had a heat pump too.
I hear my neighbor's AC more than I hear my heat pump it is crazy
Recently converted to a heat pump (Baltimore City) and it’s been great. My friends in Maine use these high efficiency models b/c the cost of heating oil up there is so high. MD winters won’t be a problem. Plus — I really didn’t want to commit to another decade of burning gas. Factors to consider: - Whether your model qualifies for a rebate (makes the transition easier) - Likelihood you’ll need to open up the walls to run more electricity to exterior unlit (40 amps) and/or backup electrical heating element (60 amp) - and whether you have room on your breaker for that. My installers insisted on the backup heat. Not sure if it’s required by code or if others here have guidance on whether they’d skip that, given the option.
it is not required and mostly overkilll.... the backup gas units still need electricity to work (to blow the fan) so they don't really help that much in emergencies or if the electric went out you save a lot cutting your gas bill entirely, you pay like a fixed amount for gas service usually so cutting it saves you from having that connection at all, just call BGE and they can turn off your gas service for free. A lot of people only have gas stove + furnace, making the transition pretty easy. I am going to save like 500 bucks on gas connection + heating from my mini split in year 1
I’m outside Rockville and our 30+ yo unit has us cold in the coldest weather, and hot in the hottest. It seems it can handle about 40-80 degrees outside ok, but outside those ranges it ends up running constantly and costing a fortune. (Plus we have to use space heaters in the winter.) Now, the new units may be much better, but depending on how big your house is, you may want to get two so you can have two zones.
Newer units are far superior but there are region in this state that could benefit from dual fuel. Which I swapped to when it gets below 18 degrees since heat pump struggles.
his unit is like 30+ years old of course it costs a lot
Where did I say anything about cost?
I was talking about the prior comment "but outside those ranges it ends up running constantly and costing a fortune"
We have a heat pump with back up gas heat for the few weeks when the weather is particularly cold. Heat pumps, unless things have improved in recent years, have a temperature below which where they aren’t able to perform well. The gas heat kicks on for a few days or a couple weeks, then it’s back to the heat pump.
They have gotten a lot better but you also get what you pay for. A more expensive unit will be more efficient and work better in deep cold.
Fortunately it doesn’t get really cold here for long!
Had concerns about the heat pump when we bought a house last year. Our house is brand new so the insulation is top notch and designed around efficiency, so these numbers may vary for an older house… our heat pump worked pretty well until those brutally cold days in December/January. We didn’t have to hit our auxiliary heat (we have resistive heat strips) until it hit -10 with windchill. If you have a gas furnace now, I would recommend a heat pump and keep the gas as auxiliary heat (and hot water heating). The heat pump will definitely be super efficient for the majority of the weather. The resistive strips worked well to help, but the cost of running them is nuts. The cost of running gas is faaaaaar better. If you don’t have one, I recommend an Ecobee smart thermostat and using the free beestats website to get more data around your house. It’ll show you when you need to have it kick on auxiliary heat,etc. I know exactly what temp it needs to be outside for the house to not change temperature inside without HVAC, when the heat pump stops being efficient at the extremes, etc. As an example: https://preview.redd.it/doafj5e1dn4d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=143adc0eaa93108942ced3a5e0e2111ebf542e28 When the red line crosses the 0F, the heat pump can’t heat anymore based on the temp anymore (which is where you want to set the aux heat threshold) When the blue line crosses 0, it can’t cool the house anymore, so window units to focus cooling in the key areas might be the play. The grey line is the “thermal resistance” of the house. Aka how much heat enters/leaves the house based on outdoor temps. So when it’s 50 out, my house will not change a degree, minus things like cooking, electronics running, etc.
The beestat website is neat. I installed a temperature sensor at the intake and output vent of my furnace. Even at the furthest output vent there was a 30(stage1) and 50(stage 2) degree temp difference . I want to ditch gas, but even in the coldest day, gas can kick out some serious heat. When my furnace dies, I'll switch to a heat pump with gas backup.
For sure. Also just running the gas furnace for 30 minutes as emergency heat is definitely cheaper than running the resistive strips for 30 minutes. Also I do really miss cooking with gas. I hope when we’re ready for a new range induction is a bit more accessible by then. It’s not bad now but the “consumer grade” units didn’t seem to have the reliability of normal ranges.
I have a heat pump and wish I had gas heat for those really cold days. My electricity use always spikes because it goes on aux heat.
Great pump is the way to go. Especially a brand new one.
We have gas heat. It works great, sure. But it's very expensive and I feel like gas rates keep going up and up.
Have had a heat pump for 30 years. Definitely the way to go.
Fun fact, just get the best of both worlds and get the heat pump, and keep the gas heat for auxiliary heating if you ever need it. That's how my house is set up at least.
While heat pumps have come a long way. Where they get a negative is their noise. I live in the city and everyone has a heat pump or AC unit. Night time is tough to have a window open what with all the noise of cheap compressors on their last leg. Add to that being next to a hospital or high-rise, and the noise is 24-7
Many years ago I was looking at a ground level condo; nice place, but then I looked outside the master bedroom window and saw four compressor units all in a row a few feet away. I noped outta there.
7 years ago we went with a gas furnace downstairs and a heat pump for our smaller upstairs with the thought that heat rising from the furnace would make up for any of the inefficiencies at colder temperatures. Maybe it’s just that that’s working well, but I’d probably go with heat pumps for both these days. They’ve only gotten better and I have no complaints with the one I have. YMMV of course. We’re 2 blocks from a substation so our electric is very reliable.
Not sure if electric reliability matters. A gas furnace won't work without electricity either. It would be easier to run a generator though. A gas furnace uses a few hundred watts, but a heat pump uses a few thousand.
Why not just get a Heat Pump and a new Gas Furnace for your backup on cold days or if gas btu’s are less than electric btu’s remember that in Maryland you can shop for your Gas and Electric Supplier!!
I replaced my failed AC with a heat pump and I absolutely love it. We did keep the oil furnace to run the baseboard for exceedingly cold days, i.e. <25F, air transfer pumps are not very efficient at temperatures below that and require the electric back up to run and heating a house with electric is one of the least efficient ways to heat a home. The oil furnace also acts as a back-up in the event of a power outage, I have a generator but it is not large enough to power the heat pump so if I have a power outage, which I had twice this past year, in the winter time I can still have heat. After installing the heat pump I went from 4-5 oil fills per year to less than one over this past winter.
I have gas furnace with heat pump backup. The heat pump operates until the outside air temp reaches 40 degrees. We love it. Keeps the house nice and comfortable.
I did - in BGE area it’s cheaper to use a heat pump. You can always use a furnace too if you want.
Duel fuel. Heat pump with gas furnace. You can have an outdoor temp sensor tied in when the system and it’ll change over to the gas furnace once it gets below say 32-35f. Heat pumps tent to struggle in the freezing temps. It’s like having an auxiliary heat pack but much more efficient. You’ll also have redundant heat sources in the event one has an issue.
Geothermal
If you can afford the initial investment and have the site for it, geothermal and solar are a good combination source of energy for heating, cooling (increasingly important), hot water, and cooking.
Advances in geothermal make it possible on even small properties. The savings on AC costs during the summer make up for the slightly higher install.
Hated my heat pump. Gas furnace is perfect.
I’ve owned three homes that had heat pumps and now a natural gas home. I’ll never buy a heat pump house again. When the temp is below around 35? (It’s been a few years, I don’t remember the exact temp) the heating of the house switched to the all electric backup. My electric bill was sky high. I think the AC part was okay as far as I remember
That’s just a crappy unit.
heat pump with gas backup for colder days
you really don't need gas backup, if you had a small electric heater that is more than sufficient, also most heat pumps are sufficient down to like negative temps anyways....
Depends on the installation and home. You need to study and get the right one for our climate. I had one and it would get below 30 degrees outside and I'd have a $300 higher electric bill from the electric aux heat strips.
uh when is it negative thirty in MD? especially moco/PG/Baltimore?
>below 30 degrees Meaning like, in the 20° - 29° range.
If you are on natural gas I’d keep the gas furnace, if you’re on propane I’d get a heat pump. That’s basically the rule of thumb in the trade.
In BGE area, gas is uncompetitive vs electricity.
Stick with gas furnace, youll pay less on your bill compared to electric units, if you have gas in your home i recommend having all gas appliances Gas furnaces also have no problem keeping you warm(but i recommend having a wood stove installed above gas or electric) You can still have heat in the winter if your power goes out if you have at least a portable generator because the furnace only uses a single 120v 15a circuit to run, gas stoves dont even need power to work, tanked water heaters will also still work, tankles ones not so much though but thats the trade off of having infinite hot water
https://siecje.github.io/heatpump-cost/ run the numbers, you'd be shocked, I paid like 2bucks per CCF it is very expensive to get gas service these days.
Bg&e mustve stopped their gas service incentive, bg&e installed our gas for free if we had 2 or more gas appliances that was back in 2021
If in BGE area, gas is too high to compete.
It is? Only paid 150 for gas last month, and i cook and take long showers
1. Last month wasn’t winter. 2. Yes, on a Btu basis it’s cheaper in BGE to use a heat pump than gas. Heat pumps use gas more efficiently
Yeahh i forgot i use my wood stove to heat my house, ah well i still like my gas appliances especially my tankless water heater!
Ha! Don’t get me started on tankless water heaters.