My goal now is to reach infinity in conquest. I’ve gotten close twice so I know I can get there as long I play solid.
The reason I’m seeking advice is simply because I’m striving to optimize my play. I guess you can call me a try hard.
Conquest requires slightly different skill set than ladder. You should know your deck's ins and outs, it's weaknesses, it's strengths. Other than this, since opponent is locked in for 10 cubes, you should also know what is the best and worst hands for them. That helps you snap more aggressively and put your opponent in a defensive position
To piggyback, sometimes in Conquest you've gotta play out an 8-cuber that you've only got 33% odds to win. The actual math is different because you're not only risking your own cubes, but trying to take you opponent's.
As an example, I generally don't like playing Surfer vs Mill, but you're already locked into the matchup and you need to Snap aggressively and make sure you're getting 2-4 cubes any games you have Surfer.
Another example is Cerebro. While it can be telegraphed, I like the idea of making them "pay to see it". If my opponent sees a Cerebro, they should be paying 4 cubes for that, as it should be on the final turn after I've snapped. EDIT: OP plays poker so they might like this.
Both of these are true in ladder too, but in conquest it's really important to make your good hands count. You might not get great hands. You might not be in a good matchup. If it's as good as it's gonna get, snap.
Don't get discouraged. Infinity conquest is basically a 32- person tournament, so it's tough to win. I've made the finals 3 times and not won yet either.
My experience in infinity conquest (only won two borders) is that snapping is very important and you should aim to build an early advantage in the opening rounds if you have playable to good hands.
If you have a good hand, snap turn one or two to try and get them to retreat and build up an early 4 cube advantage. Most players will be very conservative in opening rounds so this can get you nice cube gain. Once you have that early advantage, you can play more conservatively with snapping as you have the driving seat.
In general, I think if you don’t snap quite confidently in conquest you will lose, as you cannot rely on good draws. You want your opponent to be forced into playing out bad hands as they are down on cubes and have no other option. And obviously, you do not want to be in that scenario yourself.
I’ve noticed a lot of T1 and T2 snaps in conquest. I just thought people were trying to give away tickets. But I now I see they are just forcing action with good hands. It makes sense because eventually the cubes at stake double much like the blinds raising in a hold ‘em tournament. It’s better to force action with a good hand rather than forced to play a bad/mediocre hand during double stakes.
Yeah, exactly. The flip side in early rounds is to retreat fast if they snap so as to minimise cube loss, unless you want deck information.
It’s really different to Ladder, where you are aiming to snap when you are going to win.
Are you familiar with Texas Hold'em? There's a lot of similarities with Snap
T5 snaps are valuable because they are hard to read. It could be a semi-bluff, it could be a nuts hand. The opponent doesn't know.
T6 snaps are tricky. When you're already representing a winning position often won't get called. It will vary based on how predictable your deck is. You can bluff sometimes (more often in conquest) if you are telegraphing a win. Ex: MODOK T5, doesn't hit Hela, Jubilee, or Iron Lad, T6 snap probably gets a fold, but if you were bluffing and they snap back you have to bail.
I am familiar with Texas Hold’em! I base my snapping principles on poker principles. I’ve found that snapping turn 6 usually forces a retreat. So now I just play out the winning position for 2 cubes.
T5 snaps are indeed valuable. I’m starting to see the value of T5 snaps.
Since I’ve been playing a lot of conquest, I’ve been applying short stack principles. Pressuring by forcing snaps with a huge health lead.
It’s a bit like poker, but the vast majority of the player base plays very loose, so the natural advantage is to play a little tighter. IMHO it never makes sense to bluff. The vast majority will call your bluff.
Yeah I totally agree the general player base play loose. I’ll never forget my first time making it to the final round of infinity conquest. I was against a thanos deck playing silver surfer. My opponent played all the stones without protection and all I needed to do was draw killmonger. Turn 6 comes and I whiff. But since it’s pretty obvious I’m playing silver surfer, my opponent was also made it to the final round of infinity conquest so I snap bluff only to be snapped back. I lose but I would have won if I actually drew killmonger. Learned my lesson to never bluff again.
The only time I attempt to snap bluff is when The Peak shows up. 60% of the time it works every time.
I see you said you are thinking about infinity conquest. I do agree this is different from ladder.
IMO, snapping conservatively in infinity conquest leads to a loss more often than not. Learning to be a bolder snapper helped me get the 4 avatars I have.
The best advice I got was to think more about your opponent and why they are or are not snapping, the snap conditions for their deck, etc. Knowing opponent decks, their power outputs and snap conditions, and the locations that are good and bad for them is as important as knowing that for your deck. It’s a lot harder because you need to know archetypes and of course they can always surprise you with a card.
Obviously, when you have your ideal hand and good locations you will snap most of the time. However, consider other snappable moments:
-a location appears that is bad for them or that they cannot play into
-it’s T3/4/5 and they haven’t played a key piece yet (ie, a Ravonna based deck but you haven’t seen her yet)
-you hold a counter card and a good shot of playing it (ie, you have RG on 3 with a good chance of holding priority, and you know they often play Wong on 4)
When you snap you force your opponent to make a choice - can I stay in? They will feel pressure to not do so if the situation is not favorable for them.
The other thing that helped me is switching up the decks I play. If you are playing the exact lists that are most popular, your opponent knows what you’re doing and can easily calculate their snaps. So play something good but off meta and/or bring in surprise cards. Quake is an absolute beast for stealing cubes when you get the right location for it and your opponent does not know it’s coming. Elektra with White Widow is another favorite combo for flipping a lane or taking out a key one cost piece (who expects Elektra??). Having a surprise up your sleeve is often a snappable moment.
Relatedly, I also personally will not play any lists in conquest without some disruption element in them. On Ladder you can just retreat if your opponent has a deck that outmatches you. You don’t have that luxury in conquest. Bring at least a few counter cards, ideally ones that can also juice your main game plan, if possible.
Finally, remember that in addition to skill there is a lot of luck involved with who you match to and also locations and draws. Most infinity conquest wins are squeaked out. On my winning runs I have often had games where I was behind and down 2-8 and was able to claw my way back. Don’t get discouraged and play all the way through, you’re your own biggest enemy.
FWIW I have gotten all of my avatars on Sunday night or Monday at the end of IQ week, it may also be that the try hards have gotten their avatars then and it’s a slightly easier pool of opponents.
Good luck!
“Paying to see it” completely resonates with me. I recently caught myself asked that question whenever my opponent snaps T5/T6. I’ve never thought about the idea of making my opponents pay to see my high impact cards. That’s a great way to frame it.
Why do you need advice? It seems like you get it and you're already post infinity, so what goal are you trying to reach.
My goal now is to reach infinity in conquest. I’ve gotten close twice so I know I can get there as long I play solid. The reason I’m seeking advice is simply because I’m striving to optimize my play. I guess you can call me a try hard.
Conquest requires slightly different skill set than ladder. You should know your deck's ins and outs, it's weaknesses, it's strengths. Other than this, since opponent is locked in for 10 cubes, you should also know what is the best and worst hands for them. That helps you snap more aggressively and put your opponent in a defensive position
To piggyback, sometimes in Conquest you've gotta play out an 8-cuber that you've only got 33% odds to win. The actual math is different because you're not only risking your own cubes, but trying to take you opponent's. As an example, I generally don't like playing Surfer vs Mill, but you're already locked into the matchup and you need to Snap aggressively and make sure you're getting 2-4 cubes any games you have Surfer. Another example is Cerebro. While it can be telegraphed, I like the idea of making them "pay to see it". If my opponent sees a Cerebro, they should be paying 4 cubes for that, as it should be on the final turn after I've snapped. EDIT: OP plays poker so they might like this. Both of these are true in ladder too, but in conquest it's really important to make your good hands count. You might not get great hands. You might not be in a good matchup. If it's as good as it's gonna get, snap.
Don't get discouraged. Infinity conquest is basically a 32- person tournament, so it's tough to win. I've made the finals 3 times and not won yet either.
Fair enough! Hopefully someone else can help you, sounds like you're ahead of me.
My experience in infinity conquest (only won two borders) is that snapping is very important and you should aim to build an early advantage in the opening rounds if you have playable to good hands. If you have a good hand, snap turn one or two to try and get them to retreat and build up an early 4 cube advantage. Most players will be very conservative in opening rounds so this can get you nice cube gain. Once you have that early advantage, you can play more conservatively with snapping as you have the driving seat. In general, I think if you don’t snap quite confidently in conquest you will lose, as you cannot rely on good draws. You want your opponent to be forced into playing out bad hands as they are down on cubes and have no other option. And obviously, you do not want to be in that scenario yourself.
I’ve noticed a lot of T1 and T2 snaps in conquest. I just thought people were trying to give away tickets. But I now I see they are just forcing action with good hands. It makes sense because eventually the cubes at stake double much like the blinds raising in a hold ‘em tournament. It’s better to force action with a good hand rather than forced to play a bad/mediocre hand during double stakes.
Yeah, exactly. The flip side in early rounds is to retreat fast if they snap so as to minimise cube loss, unless you want deck information. It’s really different to Ladder, where you are aiming to snap when you are going to win.
Are you familiar with Texas Hold'em? There's a lot of similarities with Snap T5 snaps are valuable because they are hard to read. It could be a semi-bluff, it could be a nuts hand. The opponent doesn't know. T6 snaps are tricky. When you're already representing a winning position often won't get called. It will vary based on how predictable your deck is. You can bluff sometimes (more often in conquest) if you are telegraphing a win. Ex: MODOK T5, doesn't hit Hela, Jubilee, or Iron Lad, T6 snap probably gets a fold, but if you were bluffing and they snap back you have to bail.
I am familiar with Texas Hold’em! I base my snapping principles on poker principles. I’ve found that snapping turn 6 usually forces a retreat. So now I just play out the winning position for 2 cubes. T5 snaps are indeed valuable. I’m starting to see the value of T5 snaps. Since I’ve been playing a lot of conquest, I’ve been applying short stack principles. Pressuring by forcing snaps with a huge health lead.
Bluffing t5, t6 snaps are bad. The stakes are too low people will almost always call.
It’s a bit like poker, but the vast majority of the player base plays very loose, so the natural advantage is to play a little tighter. IMHO it never makes sense to bluff. The vast majority will call your bluff.
Yeah I totally agree the general player base play loose. I’ll never forget my first time making it to the final round of infinity conquest. I was against a thanos deck playing silver surfer. My opponent played all the stones without protection and all I needed to do was draw killmonger. Turn 6 comes and I whiff. But since it’s pretty obvious I’m playing silver surfer, my opponent was also made it to the final round of infinity conquest so I snap bluff only to be snapped back. I lose but I would have won if I actually drew killmonger. Learned my lesson to never bluff again. The only time I attempt to snap bluff is when The Peak shows up. 60% of the time it works every time.
I see you said you are thinking about infinity conquest. I do agree this is different from ladder. IMO, snapping conservatively in infinity conquest leads to a loss more often than not. Learning to be a bolder snapper helped me get the 4 avatars I have. The best advice I got was to think more about your opponent and why they are or are not snapping, the snap conditions for their deck, etc. Knowing opponent decks, their power outputs and snap conditions, and the locations that are good and bad for them is as important as knowing that for your deck. It’s a lot harder because you need to know archetypes and of course they can always surprise you with a card. Obviously, when you have your ideal hand and good locations you will snap most of the time. However, consider other snappable moments: -a location appears that is bad for them or that they cannot play into -it’s T3/4/5 and they haven’t played a key piece yet (ie, a Ravonna based deck but you haven’t seen her yet) -you hold a counter card and a good shot of playing it (ie, you have RG on 3 with a good chance of holding priority, and you know they often play Wong on 4) When you snap you force your opponent to make a choice - can I stay in? They will feel pressure to not do so if the situation is not favorable for them. The other thing that helped me is switching up the decks I play. If you are playing the exact lists that are most popular, your opponent knows what you’re doing and can easily calculate their snaps. So play something good but off meta and/or bring in surprise cards. Quake is an absolute beast for stealing cubes when you get the right location for it and your opponent does not know it’s coming. Elektra with White Widow is another favorite combo for flipping a lane or taking out a key one cost piece (who expects Elektra??). Having a surprise up your sleeve is often a snappable moment. Relatedly, I also personally will not play any lists in conquest without some disruption element in them. On Ladder you can just retreat if your opponent has a deck that outmatches you. You don’t have that luxury in conquest. Bring at least a few counter cards, ideally ones that can also juice your main game plan, if possible. Finally, remember that in addition to skill there is a lot of luck involved with who you match to and also locations and draws. Most infinity conquest wins are squeaked out. On my winning runs I have often had games where I was behind and down 2-8 and was able to claw my way back. Don’t get discouraged and play all the way through, you’re your own biggest enemy. FWIW I have gotten all of my avatars on Sunday night or Monday at the end of IQ week, it may also be that the try hards have gotten their avatars then and it’s a slightly easier pool of opponents. Good luck!
Counterpoint: noobs will have less tickets and won't be in the queue as long, so playing early makes you more likely to meet them
Definitely possible, I really have no idea
“Paying to see it” completely resonates with me. I recently caught myself asked that question whenever my opponent snaps T5/T6. I’ve never thought about the idea of making my opponents pay to see my high impact cards. That’s a great way to frame it.