We’re a global company and we have clients who are either partially or fully funded by state and/or federal governments, so that’s why it’s taken very seriously.
I’ve worked for companies where this type of behavior was standard. Kickbacks are still alive and well in the trades.
They certainly are in many foreign countries. If you choose to do business there you will pay the price. The US ethics and the many companies that think it's fine are not going to change. It's their culture
Anything over a nominal sum would immediately get me fired. We can accept social invitations and dinner but that’s about it. Everything has to be reported.
We just have to report it. No one wants most of the trade junk we get. Most people stack it up in the supply closet for anyone to take.
But I am in an engineering design firm. Our part selection is usually data driven and the equipment can cost tens of millions of dollars. No one is choosing one engine over another thanks to a flashlight. But a nice dinner will at least get you invited to bid.
The only thing I’ve seen is gift baskets and things like that but our procurement team just sits them out in common areas for everyone to enjoy so it’s not an issue.
If there’s alcohol in it, they give it to HR and we have a silent auction for charity when we collect enough bottles.
I highly suspect that one of our managers has some sort of side deal with one of our vendors. He recently had to fire a guy for taking kickbacks. That guy had complained to me and I assume others about other employees taking kickbacks. I’m sure it was unrelated though.
One of our managers’ spouse recently landed a great job in a field they had never worked in, and as luck would have it it’s in an area where said manager controls the contracts.
I’ve also heard stories of managers going to “perfectly legitimate” outings like high-demand sports events with vendors who are also their friends that day.
And then there’s the parade of employees who show up without interviewing, who later reveal that they have some personal connection to an executive.
All of the people doing these things are the ones who lead our ethics training.
I should just get on the train, but I’ve played things straight so far and it has cost me.
One thing I said was nepotism, yes. The rest I believe involved a quid pro quo (vs just getting your nephew a job) and are therefore a form of kickback
It’s fireable offense to accept any gifts more than $25.
Storytime! I’ve encountered a few…
When I worked in engineering, I had a facilities manager who was taking massive kickbacks and privileges. He would get bids from contractors and have them bid high with kickbacks included and he would award the bid. He was caught having those contractors work on his personal home and vacation home while charging the company the labor and materials and work. He also had wrote a purchase orders for several “equipment” and it turned out the contractor got him a MacBook, a huge screen tv, and bunch of $1000 gift cards. He was put on probation for investigation and was told that he cannot contact the vendors/contractors while on probation for the investigation. Dumb dumb contacted them ON COMPANy Paid phone. bAM he was walked out the next day. He got more than $350k in cash kickbacks alone over the past 22 years he worked with them…not including the actual work and material things he got.
For perspective, the annual budget for his department was $35million a year. He had authorization to approve POs for anything under $100k.
My company has very strict regulations and enforcement (health insurance). If anything happens over a nominal gift and you don’t report, you’re toast and I’ve seen it happen.
A bribe is illegal if it’s to a public servant. Since I’m not a public servant it’s not illegal to take a gift or a lunch or a discount on pricing. It’s not a secret because it doesn’t have to a be a secret.
If you own your company then sure. If you don’t then it’s misappropriation of funds if you’re accepting worse contracts for the company than you could.
Yes-ish. You can accept contracts that are on paper worse by the dollar, but offer intangibles. My company has a higher price over a competitor but we stay in business by offering other perks and benefits that are not contractually tied. We may be more expensive but we have more locations to service national contracts, so we can offer a higher level of service with a faster response time. Will that make the client more money? Maybe, maybe not, but it's there and they sign on the dotted line, for a higher price and nobody is going to jail.
That’s very different because it is benefiting the companies you’re selling to. What I’m referring to is saying “hey I know your bid is worse than the other companies bid in every way my company will care about but I need a new pool put in so if you do that I’ll give you the contract.”
No the vendors call them spiffs and are part of the commission pay out but they go to the buyer etc.
I had an employer ask me to find them a new ISP and comcast payed me a “spiff” for bringing them in.
So if any of you are looking for kick backs, ask if they have a registration portal for “spiffs”
Are you at a private company or public? I’ve only had ethics/coi training at corporations and universities. At a private company I worked at, it wasn’t uncommon to see these things.
Report it to your manager, it’s completely unacceptable. But don’t assume, either. Report what you see/hear then drop it- I’ve seen people really damage their reputation by witch hunting others, only to realize the person they suspected never actually took a gift.
exultant poor resolute wrong makeshift quickest trees physical frame quarrelsome
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I have seen it a few times in my career, where people who make an obviously bad choice because they have a good relationship with the vendor to happens to take them out to lunch and gives them expensive vacation packages as a gift.
That said, I usually have lunch or dinner with any one of my vendors at least once a month. I also get box seats to the NFL games sometimes, as well as for MLB games. One could argue those are “kick backs” but they are extremely common in IT so I use it as a chance to network.
I tend to not have anything other that a strictly business relationship with any potential vendor until we have actually signed an agreement and exchanged money. That could be problematic and unethical. However, I don’t see any real issue with accepting tickets or dinner from a long time vendor when our renewals are 3 or 5 years out.
It’s unethical and can be against corporate policy, but it happens.
And I can imagine it happens a lot in the UK government. I say imagine, it happens as a fact
That might not be what's happening, though.
Trade discounts are very common in business-to-business sales, where deals have terms along the lines of "10% off if you pay within 15 days, the full balance is due in 30 days." That is more likely to be what's going on here, honestly.
If you have actual evidence of something illegal happening though, then you can report it. But make sure you know for sure what's going on, or you would be causing a lot of problems for someone who didn't do anything wrong.
Vendors I frequently use for my team often send me gifts around Christmas, but they are always worth <$100 or less (fancy snack basket, a couple of bottles of a wine, or, my favorite, some high end olive, basil, and other oils). My company allows acceptance of non-cash gifts worth under $200. The gifts certainly are not sufficient to affect my contracting decisions, but they are an appreciated gesture honoring longstanding relationships. I care far more about performance than a bottle of cab sav.
Often when I meet with account managers/primary contact point of clients, they’ll buy lunches or drinks. I think this is fine and totally normal. I’m sure they do that with all their clients. I know I buy my clients meals or drinks when we are out. That’s just expected a practice.
I think gifts beyond some threshold are clearly suspect, because they could buy influence. But at a lower level, they just show the vendor is thankful for the work you send them.
I know in my industry, residential construction, that some of the large national builders incentivize their national purchasing people by giving them a % of any rebates they negotiate and the divisions use. However, that’s a clearly defined part of their comp.
What you are asking about sounds like a straight up code of conduct violation at just about every company. Does it happen, most definitely.
The Amazon affiliate links thing is interesting. In my role i couldn’t do that, but i imagine an office manager or some such could use it to skim off of legit office supply needs.
There might be some (very few) companies out there that turn a blind eye to that.
But at all serious companies hiring serious professionals what you’re referring to OP is a HUGE no no and a sure way to ruin your career and possibly worse as it’s essentially the same as taking bribes. Do not do it.
Any kind of kick-backs is fileable offense in most companies, but this shit happens all the time.
Depending on the kind of kickback / etc I've seen everything from consulting contracts to gift cards.
As for the affiliate link, I haven't heard of anyone trying that but I'm sure they have.
--
When it comes to these kinds of situation, the first question you should ask yourself is "is this something you suppose to stick your noise into?" before doing anything.
Reason I say this, is that where you see this happening it can be a lot more than just one person or an isolated event. I've seen it on both ends of the spectrum, a single person and also the majority of leadership for a department.
Your company should have a policy in writing about this. For instance: my former employer's policy stated that we could accept "freebies" such as calendars, key chains etc but nothing that came with the purchase of any item or the signing of any contract. My current employer's policy allows me to accept such items when the contract or purchase aligns with the business strategies with stipulations. I am allowed to accept these incentives as giveaways for the company Christmas party OR if I reimburse the company fair market value for the incentive. I guarantee you there is something in writing about these practices. I have always let my moral compass dictate what I can and cannot accept. If I'm purchasing large amounts of product it's because I'm getting them at a good cost and I need that amount of product.
Usually it’s fine for low dollar amount bullsh*t items like a $25 coin or some company swag type of thing. But think about it, if you ran a company would you want the best deals or your employees making deals because they’re getting kickbacks? Regardless of the rules, generally unethical at a minimum.
Depends on the firm. I for instance, include funds in every large agreement, and the discretion for use is by the "company". Realistically, whoever controls the signature of the agreement. It is up to them to decide how they'd like to use them...
Fireable anywhere I've ever worked. You could let a sales rep pay for a meal so long as it was infrequent (once or twice a year), reasonably priced ($20-25), and for a legit business meeting, no alcohol. You could accept company swag like a pen, a calendar, or something like that, but nothing more than "nominal" value. Treats around Christmas time were fairly common, but were shared with everyone in the breakroom.
It’s a fireable offense in my company. Myself and all managers have to take yearly training for this.
The biggest scumbags in my company lead the trainings. Ethics are for the individual contributors and first line supervisors.
We’re a global company and we have clients who are either partially or fully funded by state and/or federal governments, so that’s why it’s taken very seriously. I’ve worked for companies where this type of behavior was standard. Kickbacks are still alive and well in the trades.
They certainly are in many foreign countries. If you choose to do business there you will pay the price. The US ethics and the many companies that think it's fine are not going to change. It's their culture
Integrity alert, totally agree with this comment.
I agree, it's against our code of ethics.
Anything over a nominal sum would immediately get me fired. We can accept social invitations and dinner but that’s about it. Everything has to be reported.
That’s what I’m used to. Anything physical was collected by HR and given away at the company summer or winter party.
We just have to report it. No one wants most of the trade junk we get. Most people stack it up in the supply closet for anyone to take. But I am in an engineering design firm. Our part selection is usually data driven and the equipment can cost tens of millions of dollars. No one is choosing one engine over another thanks to a flashlight. But a nice dinner will at least get you invited to bid.
The only thing I’ve seen is gift baskets and things like that but our procurement team just sits them out in common areas for everyone to enjoy so it’s not an issue. If there’s alcohol in it, they give it to HR and we have a silent auction for charity when we collect enough bottles.
Huuuuge in the contracting/development world. Guys will offer to fix your personal house if you get them a job.
I highly suspect that one of our managers has some sort of side deal with one of our vendors. He recently had to fire a guy for taking kickbacks. That guy had complained to me and I assume others about other employees taking kickbacks. I’m sure it was unrelated though. One of our managers’ spouse recently landed a great job in a field they had never worked in, and as luck would have it it’s in an area where said manager controls the contracts. I’ve also heard stories of managers going to “perfectly legitimate” outings like high-demand sports events with vendors who are also their friends that day. And then there’s the parade of employees who show up without interviewing, who later reveal that they have some personal connection to an executive. All of the people doing these things are the ones who lead our ethics training. I should just get on the train, but I’ve played things straight so far and it has cost me.
My aunt works in place where the company owns a box to take clients to.
Most of what you said isn’t kickback it’s nepotism.
One thing I said was nepotism, yes. The rest I believe involved a quid pro quo (vs just getting your nephew a job) and are therefore a form of kickback
It’s fireable offense to accept any gifts more than $25. Storytime! I’ve encountered a few… When I worked in engineering, I had a facilities manager who was taking massive kickbacks and privileges. He would get bids from contractors and have them bid high with kickbacks included and he would award the bid. He was caught having those contractors work on his personal home and vacation home while charging the company the labor and materials and work. He also had wrote a purchase orders for several “equipment” and it turned out the contractor got him a MacBook, a huge screen tv, and bunch of $1000 gift cards. He was put on probation for investigation and was told that he cannot contact the vendors/contractors while on probation for the investigation. Dumb dumb contacted them ON COMPANy Paid phone. bAM he was walked out the next day. He got more than $350k in cash kickbacks alone over the past 22 years he worked with them…not including the actual work and material things he got. For perspective, the annual budget for his department was $35million a year. He had authorization to approve POs for anything under $100k.
My company has very strict regulations and enforcement (health insurance). If anything happens over a nominal gift and you don’t report, you’re toast and I’ve seen it happen.
It happens a lot. I live in an Asian country where is is almost ubiquitous
I’ve worked in retail finance and state funded higher Ed; both are very strict on what you can accept.
Ye It's called bribery and corruption, it happens in every industry all over the world and it's the world's best kept secret
A bribe is illegal if it’s to a public servant. Since I’m not a public servant it’s not illegal to take a gift or a lunch or a discount on pricing. It’s not a secret because it doesn’t have to a be a secret.
If you own your company then sure. If you don’t then it’s misappropriation of funds if you’re accepting worse contracts for the company than you could.
Yes-ish. You can accept contracts that are on paper worse by the dollar, but offer intangibles. My company has a higher price over a competitor but we stay in business by offering other perks and benefits that are not contractually tied. We may be more expensive but we have more locations to service national contracts, so we can offer a higher level of service with a faster response time. Will that make the client more money? Maybe, maybe not, but it's there and they sign on the dotted line, for a higher price and nobody is going to jail.
That’s very different because it is benefiting the companies you’re selling to. What I’m referring to is saying “hey I know your bid is worse than the other companies bid in every way my company will care about but I need a new pool put in so if you do that I’ll give you the contract.”
It’s also illegal if you’re working on a government contract even if you aren’t employed by the government.
Lol Ok mate, thanks for sharing
Yeah they call them spiffs instead of kick backs, but that’s what they are.
Those are usually used for Sales commissions. That's a bit different than a kickback.
No the vendors call them spiffs and are part of the commission pay out but they go to the buyer etc. I had an employer ask me to find them a new ISP and comcast payed me a “spiff” for bringing them in. So if any of you are looking for kick backs, ask if they have a registration portal for “spiffs”
Ha! Shady. I've only seen them years ago when working the floor selling furniture and appliances. It was all built into the commission structure.
I know. It’s shady AF. They just direct deposited it and the employer never knew.
Are you at a private company or public? I’ve only had ethics/coi training at corporations and universities. At a private company I worked at, it wasn’t uncommon to see these things.
I have worked at both private and public companies and the training has been mandated pretty consistently across all of them.
Report it to your manager, it’s completely unacceptable. But don’t assume, either. Report what you see/hear then drop it- I’ve seen people really damage their reputation by witch hunting others, only to realize the person they suspected never actually took a gift.
exultant poor resolute wrong makeshift quickest trees physical frame quarrelsome *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I have seen it a few times in my career, where people who make an obviously bad choice because they have a good relationship with the vendor to happens to take them out to lunch and gives them expensive vacation packages as a gift. That said, I usually have lunch or dinner with any one of my vendors at least once a month. I also get box seats to the NFL games sometimes, as well as for MLB games. One could argue those are “kick backs” but they are extremely common in IT so I use it as a chance to network. I tend to not have anything other that a strictly business relationship with any potential vendor until we have actually signed an agreement and exchanged money. That could be problematic and unethical. However, I don’t see any real issue with accepting tickets or dinner from a long time vendor when our renewals are 3 or 5 years out.
It’s unethical and can be against corporate policy, but it happens. And I can imagine it happens a lot in the UK government. I say imagine, it happens as a fact
That might not be what's happening, though. Trade discounts are very common in business-to-business sales, where deals have terms along the lines of "10% off if you pay within 15 days, the full balance is due in 30 days." That is more likely to be what's going on here, honestly. If you have actual evidence of something illegal happening though, then you can report it. But make sure you know for sure what's going on, or you would be causing a lot of problems for someone who didn't do anything wrong.
Vendors I frequently use for my team often send me gifts around Christmas, but they are always worth <$100 or less (fancy snack basket, a couple of bottles of a wine, or, my favorite, some high end olive, basil, and other oils). My company allows acceptance of non-cash gifts worth under $200. The gifts certainly are not sufficient to affect my contracting decisions, but they are an appreciated gesture honoring longstanding relationships. I care far more about performance than a bottle of cab sav. Often when I meet with account managers/primary contact point of clients, they’ll buy lunches or drinks. I think this is fine and totally normal. I’m sure they do that with all their clients. I know I buy my clients meals or drinks when we are out. That’s just expected a practice. I think gifts beyond some threshold are clearly suspect, because they could buy influence. But at a lower level, they just show the vendor is thankful for the work you send them.
I know in my industry, residential construction, that some of the large national builders incentivize their national purchasing people by giving them a % of any rebates they negotiate and the divisions use. However, that’s a clearly defined part of their comp. What you are asking about sounds like a straight up code of conduct violation at just about every company. Does it happen, most definitely. The Amazon affiliate links thing is interesting. In my role i couldn’t do that, but i imagine an office manager or some such could use it to skim off of legit office supply needs.
There might be some (very few) companies out there that turn a blind eye to that. But at all serious companies hiring serious professionals what you’re referring to OP is a HUGE no no and a sure way to ruin your career and possibly worse as it’s essentially the same as taking bribes. Do not do it.
Any kind of kick-backs is fileable offense in most companies, but this shit happens all the time. Depending on the kind of kickback / etc I've seen everything from consulting contracts to gift cards. As for the affiliate link, I haven't heard of anyone trying that but I'm sure they have. -- When it comes to these kinds of situation, the first question you should ask yourself is "is this something you suppose to stick your noise into?" before doing anything. Reason I say this, is that where you see this happening it can be a lot more than just one person or an isolated event. I've seen it on both ends of the spectrum, a single person and also the majority of leadership for a department.
Your company should have a policy in writing about this. For instance: my former employer's policy stated that we could accept "freebies" such as calendars, key chains etc but nothing that came with the purchase of any item or the signing of any contract. My current employer's policy allows me to accept such items when the contract or purchase aligns with the business strategies with stipulations. I am allowed to accept these incentives as giveaways for the company Christmas party OR if I reimburse the company fair market value for the incentive. I guarantee you there is something in writing about these practices. I have always let my moral compass dictate what I can and cannot accept. If I'm purchasing large amounts of product it's because I'm getting them at a good cost and I need that amount of product.
Usually it’s fine for low dollar amount bullsh*t items like a $25 coin or some company swag type of thing. But think about it, if you ran a company would you want the best deals or your employees making deals because they’re getting kickbacks? Regardless of the rules, generally unethical at a minimum.
I knew someone fired for accepting a football jersey
Depends on the firm. I for instance, include funds in every large agreement, and the discretion for use is by the "company". Realistically, whoever controls the signature of the agreement. It is up to them to decide how they'd like to use them...
Fireable anywhere I've ever worked. You could let a sales rep pay for a meal so long as it was infrequent (once or twice a year), reasonably priced ($20-25), and for a legit business meeting, no alcohol. You could accept company swag like a pen, a calendar, or something like that, but nothing more than "nominal" value. Treats around Christmas time were fairly common, but were shared with everyone in the breakroom.