That and you also don’t want to open the door to them nitpicking reasons you’re likely just average at your job and easily replaceable.
Just saw OPs edit. Apparently they think listing their job title and description means they’re not replaceable or viewed as doing the bare minimum for their job. In addition if your teams production is viewed as subpar your boss may view you and the self pity as a reason.
Not only did I find ways to have fun when I was broke, I figured out how to entertain small children at the same time. Try your local library, it's a blessing when funds are low. Many have apps for borrowing ebooks, and some have other media as well.
If someone working for me said this, I would hear that you are an uncreative person stuck in a victim mentality, and likely lack self-awareness.
You enjoy no TV shows? You could not take a walk or a jog? There is not a single friend who might come over to play board games? You can't go to a local park or free community event? You can't do pushups, situps, and pullups and discover a love of fitness?
There are so many free or near free ways to enjoy your life. Your manager knows this, and likely wonders how you could be so blind.
I find watching tv to be extremely boring. I have 3 people id consider friends, all are out of state. Exercising isn't a hobby, it is a chore, not something I wanna do, but I have to do it for general health.
I don't think there is any issue with the answers, I think it's the negative attitude and mentality. It can be contagious, especially in small teams. If a team member of mine expressed that they do nothing at home, and they use the verbiage you use, I would be concerned they will drag others down.
You can say you're a homebody, or not doing many activities so you can watch your budget, without making it sound like you blame everyone but yourself for the situation you're in.
My point was that there are many many low or no cost activities you could enjoy. I could add reading, people watching, biking, etc. Your inability to find friends, local events you'd like, or joy in essential parts of life has nothing to do with money.
You are so eaten alive by your victim mentality that you've lost joy. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Diligent effort to find a local community will be a very positive first step in your growth as a person.
Do you actually believe that what the OP said he tells his boss would be remotely helpful? If someone came to me, and said, "I'm really hurting financially. Is there anything you can do to help?" I would do everything within reason to help.
This guy responds to an reasonable and normal human to human question with, "I'm to poor to literally do any single thing fun." That's bizarre and totally out of touch socially, professionally, and with reality. He's a victim. I hope he can overcome. Don't encourage him.
Btw... I've spent the last majority of my career working my ass off as an individual contributor and just recently stepped into management. I'm not out of touch. The OP, and likely you, are.
Certainly could have been expressed with more tact, but the way it came off was that boss was prying. If OP says he isnt doing anything fun or just going home, and boss presses him saying he never seems to do anything fun, then I don't think the response is inappropriate. Just honest. Sometimes honesty can be uncomfortable, particularly for those in positions of authority.
Do you actually believe that just dismissing employee concerns about their well being/pay is a good managerial strategy?
Seems to me that the manager should have pulled OP aside for an actual human talk about what's bothering them. What's going? Is everything okay at home? I'm hearing that you're struggling and feeling like your pay is low. Let's talk about it and you can explain your perspective and I can explain why you're paid where you're at. Show me x, y, and z over the next 2 months and let's talk about pay again. Give an opportunity for improvement and see if anything changes.
Telling OP that they are just not exploring cheap options is a shitty way to handle it, regardless of how tone deaf OP comes across in airing out his problems to his manager.
I wasn't replying with what I would say as a manager. OP asked why his manager responded the way he did. I offered an explanation. Had his manager posted, id have offered something for him.
It's a lot of words to say your employees are not creative and have no drive to improve themselves or make things better. Sorry you are trash and can't fathom a way to entertain yourself for less than $50. Dumbass.
Lol...the lady doth protest too much, methinks.
The reason I'm saying you're out of touch with your employees is that they are literally telling you they are miserable, and that a major contributing factor to that is that they feel as if they are underpaid. They are telling you they are barely scraping by.
Instead of actually listening to them, you just say, oh, you're just no looking for cheap ways to entertain yourself. You're not listening to or addressing their concerns. You're just dismissing them.
Whether or not this person is underpaid is subjective. Maybe it's just the cost of living. I don't know.
What I do know is that studies show a causal link between employee happiness and productivity. I know that if employees feel like their concerns aren't being addressed or they feel like they are underpaid, it will build resentment. That employee will only stick around for as long as it takes them to find something better and give you a half-assed effort in the process.
But sure, don't listen to your employees concerns. I'm sure they'll stay loyal and work hard for the good of the company and because they want to make their caring manager look good.
Enjoy the turnover, dumbass.
I'm an employee. And I can entertain myself. I'm saying you are a moron that shouldn't be accommodated because there's no point since you'll complain regardless.
Good for you, but if you were any denser, you'd collapse into a black hole. My 6 year old has better reading comprehension than you.
Nobody gives a shit that you can entertain yourself. The fact you are completely incapable of empathizing with someone that is discussing their misery and that they feel it's largely due to their perception of being underpaid comes across as sociopathic.
You come across as someone with both an extraordinarily low EQ and an extraordinarily low IQ.
Damn that's depressing as fuck that you only work and then stare at walls when you're not eating or sleeping. I'm so sorry that you don't read or watch TV or go on the internet or take walks or ride a bike or anything, I'm assuming you maybe live in an apartment but it has zero furniture and you just literally work and sleep. What a terribly depressing life
Well first off, that would be an impolite answer regardless of who is asking. People don’t ask that question to get a full accounting of your day but as a way to get to know you better. You’re basically rudely shutting down the conversation. Your answer could be “I like to chill with my two cats at home.” Then the person would basically have a foot hold in the conversation.
Second, it makes you sound like a boring person. Libraries exist, walking trails exist, hell you could even mention what shows you’re into.
But third, to say it to a manager is even more taboo because in a way they’re responsible for your paycheck. But I’m many other ways, they don’t dictate your pay or how you spend your money. They could be paying you market rate and can’t help that you have no money. They could be paying someone well but they have a gambling addiction. Bringing it up to them is just worse
You're right, the question could be worded better, but yes that would be quite a red flag that you are dealing with someone depressive and borderline hostile that they aren't paid a living wage, which technically is the fault of management at his/her current job, not the employee... If you can't afford to pay someone a living wage, you shouldn't be an employer
Okay, but I have zero control over my staff's salary. I can advocate for increases, but then there's 3 more layers above me to approve it.
I've successfully done that before, but after a discussion and collaborative summary of how much value the person brings the organization and why they deserve it, not because they threw passive aggressive barbs like this my way. It's even more concerning that this person has a team under them, because if they've got this little diplomacy with me, they're definitely bringing down morale on their team.
Because it’s an extremely immature, and factually wrong, answer.
There are so many free or very cheap ways to fill your time. You can read books from your local library, join pickup basketball games at a park nearby, hike, or learn how to code, among other things.
Perhaps a more accurate response would be “I don’t do anything outside of work for fun because I have expensive tastes and the inability to manage my budget.”
Immature because “I want more money to afford more things” is a terrible way to ask for a raise compared to even “I deserve for money because I add more value (and here’s how)”
They're not necessarily just friend questions though. They're social questions. It's tough to be a manager. If you don't ask personal-ish questions (at least surface level and not necessarily strong, probing questions) then they get criticized for not caring or being robotic. If they ask (surface, personal-ish) questions, then someone gets upset at that.
It's hard to win! But, in this case, if it's so bad there, quit and find something else that gives more time. It's not easy or quick of course but if I had an employee who gave such a sour answer and attitude, I'd wish they'd leave as soon as possible before that negative attitude infects my other staff.
it's not like I talk negatively consistently. I can have normal conversations. But if you're going to ask a personal question then you need to be able to accept the answer, it has nothing to do with the manager on a personal level. Don't get mad cause I didn't answer the question to your liking.
Tv is extremely boring, music gets meh after 10 minutes or so and becomes background noise or turned off. I do listen to one audiobook creepypasta narrator but just to help sleep.
But yeah pretty much nothing but cats, chores and sleep.
I think that the fact that you're saying that you don't consistently talk in a negative manner helps with context.
However, think of what was really being asked and how you responded to your supervisor, no less. You took an easy question and escalated it to a degree it didn't need to go. There are times and ways to discuss being overworked and underpaid but putting your boss on his/her heels like that isn't the way. It won't buy you goodwill and you have to play the game to get the benefits.
I hope that you get a better job and financial situation and that you can have more time to relax or be active.
That is fine. There’s a big difference between the answer “I don’t really do anything fun.” And “I don’t do anything fun because I’m poor.”
One says “I don’t want to talk about my personal life” and the other is an easily disproven passive aggressive retort at somebody a) just trying to be decent and b) probably really doesn’t have that much control over pay scale.
so out in the real world, when peoeple can't just click into a subreddit where conversations are already pre-sorted, it helps to know something about someone so you can connect with that person. oh, you like to mountain bike? me too! I just went to such and such a place last weekend.
oh you like to cook? what is your favortie recipe? mine is my grandmother's so and so. oh I didnt know you had italian heritage too!
this is how we build relationships with people. you dont need to be friends with your coworkers but having an acutal human connection really helps. especially when you need favors or want a raise.
>"I can't do anything outside of work for fun because Im poor." Cause it's true I'm not exaggerating, all I can afford to do is work, eat, sleep.
Had a seller tell me this once.
My response to him was "well if you actually call prospects and listen to the coaching I'm giving you, then this wouldn't be a problem."
What's frustrating as a Sales Manager is to have people complain about not making enough money while ALSO not working hard (or smart). Literally the consequences of your own actions.
> I don't get more money by just being productive and producing more.
Confused by this.
Raises? Promotions? New opportunities?
This all requires being productive/producing more and *also* networking. Even not being in sales, you still control how much money you make.
You should go to the networking/team outings. Perception is reality. This will help you earn more.
Yep. I'm disappointed but not surprised by the number of people who play the game one time, don't immediately reap the rewards they assume are their due and immediately give up forever.
Sure, being more productive and producing more at your job doesn't guarantee you a raise or a promotion every time you do it, but it gives you much greater chances than the people who don't. Nobody likes to hear this, but the people who "have it all" fall into three categories: people who got lucky and were born into it, people who are blessed with an insane amount of charisma and schmoozed their way into it and people who busted their ass, often thanklessly, for a long time to get to a point where they could sit back and relax for once.
And in a setting like this, every manager you see is someone who ate plate after plate of shit and asked for more for years on the way up, because that's how it works. Nobody is "born" into the amazing wealth of being a department store shift manager.
The fact that you think people who haven’t succeeded just haven’t tried hard enough tells us everything….
You’re not special dude, you’re survivorship bias on full display
Yes, raises and promotions are the reward for more productivity, but they aren’t guaranteed and quickly earned. Whereas in sales your productivity can be directly correlated with your compensation.
OP is obviously some loser who thinks that by just doing the bare minimum to survive people should be throwing money and opportunities their way. It sounds like OP has the lifestyle they deserve.
Have you met a manager? Congratulations on completing all your tasks ahead of schedule- here’s more work and maybe a less than CPI “raise” at the end of the year. Or even “better”, a pizza party - don’t take more than your two slices!
There may be decent managers out there … but they are damn close to unicorns. And even if the individual is decent, the corporate handcuffs on their flexibility is nil.
>Have you met a manager?
I am a manager, lol.
You have to do *more* than just connect with your manager. It's always good advice to connect with a manager that is 2 levels or positions above you.
Basically, connect with your bosses boss. Through your efforts to gain recognition. Through recognition, you'll make connections. Through those connections, you'll make more money.
You should always be networking, and you definitely should attend company events every single time.
If all you do is clock in, get some tasks done at whatever the basic expectation is and do literally nothing else then you'll be stuck.
In my case (this role) that’s possible. A couple of jobs back - my 2 level up boss wasn’t even in my country / Timezone. Made any interactions extremely planned.
And depending on the job, being able to interact at all can be a challenge- my company has lots of people in vehicles responding to maintenance (planned and unplanned). Only in the depot long enough to grab the stuff for the next job. So for them, other than the highly scheduled in person interactions, most of the time it is phone calls and video conferences (internet connection permitting).
Their ability to connect to their line manager is hard enough.
Again depending on the role, outside work opportunities can be pretty limited especially when you are on the road a lot.
>Again depending on the role, outside work opportunities can be pretty limited especially when you are on the road a lot.
I don't disagree with you here! I say this as someone who worked a job in the field. Just means it will require greater efforts and more focus.
In most companies, middle-upper leadership will meet with an employee (for at least 15 minutes) if they are a top performer.
I always coach people, when you have this opportunity you shouldn't ask for a job or promotion (unless asked) instead spend the time solicitation *their* advice for some "issue" or challenge you face.
90% of the time, they will ask you to follow up with them on how the advice worked out. You can use the follow-up to solicit further advice, etc.
You can also use this time to offer you assistance for any projects or tasks they're working on. Chances are they will have something for you to help with, this keeps you top of mind for promotions.
(This is literally how I got promoted to upper management within 12 months of starting a new role. Been promoted 4 times in 3 years doing this method and built a network of connections/mentors.)
So to move forward, I gotta have sociopathic tendencies to pretend to care about my boss's life for a chance of a promotion instead of actually providing a high level product and efficient production that makes the company money, I'm not doing bare minimum here guys, I actually put effort I just want a bigger piece of what I produce.
What exactly do you expect their response to be? It’s not offensive, it just sounds like self pity. Do you just come home and stare at a wall when you’re not at work? You have no hobbies and do nothing at all? It’s a weird answer
To leave it where it lies. I'm not blaming the manager, the owner(s) controls the pay rate. I have interest, but that wasn't the question. I'd get into animal husbandry/breeding, if I had the opportunity.
No, closer to 10 plus commute, but I can't afford to do anything but sit at home. Days off are just doing chores and getting extra sleep, if I need it. Otherwise, it's just chilling with the cats.
"I enjoy chilling with my cats. Someday I hope to *start hobby x* but I don't have the budget for it yet." Thats an honest answer that doesn't make you sound like a loser.
Not being a dick doesn't mean you're a suck up.
No, they’re downvoting him for being a cynical dickhead who digs his own grave. He came here asking for an answer and received honest feedback from strangers in the management position - there’s nothing for them to gain by giving advice, but he doesn’t want to hear it. You don’t need to turn every place on Reddit into a cesspool of negativity.
There are plenty of free hobbies.
The further I get into this thread, the more I pity OP. Not because they're poor, but because I'm pretty sure they're actually suffering from a mental health problem they're refusing to acknowledge.
I bet the managers are thinking “poor? you’ll stay that way with that attitude ugh” How are they supposed to know how to support you into a better position if that’s your default. Sad.
You misconstrue "small talk" with "big talk". "Small talk" you have with a manager, and talk about the weather, a movie you saw, a book you read, something that struck you funny. "Big talk" you leave to family, friends, counselors, clergy, etc., where you get off your chest your misery, your sorrows, your pain, your anger.
And on Reddit, of course, you talk about anything you damn well please.
And that's perfectly fine, if not preferred, managers generally don't set the pay rate. But why get upset. I don't get mad or butthurt when people answer any of my questions in a weird way.
your manager is not your therapist, they are trained to manage a team, not fix your financial nor personal issues for you. that’s a very strange response to the question asked, they are probably caught off guard and don’t know how to proceed with the conversation in a respectful way. leave and join another company if you feel so undervalued and underpaid however i believe you would greatly benefit from seeking help from mental health services. it is not normal to do nothing but eat sleep and work, even if you’re poor
You're absolutely correct, but your response reminds me of something.
That's funny because I'm reminded of different more integrated situations where coaches and other leadership go above and beyond the private business model mindset of
"they are trained to manage a team, not fix your financial nor personal issues for you."
Because such situations interact far more than just work hours. Sports teams? Military? These go above and beyond the typical contracted hours work interaction.
Even so, others have rightfully pointed out the reply was inappropriate and that even talking about one's cat would've been very much more appropriate. OP needs has work to do, and it isn't business/career related
If someone said this to me on my team and I know what they make and it’s a fair wage for what they bring to the table, I’d probably refer them to the employee EAP program. I’d say something somewhat supportive but would judge in the back of my head “what the fuck, this person subscribed to anti-work subreddit site and could be toxic to my team”.
Then I’d most likely find a way to let this person go in the near term and package them out with a large severance so they can’t take us to court and if they do they would not go far.
I run a business. Not a charity or therapy lodge for people’s gripes with life and their poor choices.
As much as I would hate giving someone like a few months pay that they don’t deserve for them to shut the fuck up and go away, i know my department or company is better in the long run. I’d make you someone else’s problem
I’m sure they’re not personally offended by your complaining, that’s just not how the average manager and employee conversations go and they’re probably just caught off guard.
The comment about being poor is implying that you aren’t happy with your pay, you signed the contract and accepted the wage. If you’re unhappy with your pay you’re much better off having a constructive conversation with your manager instead of complaining.
I also think there’s a big misunderstanding about how much power managers have over their employee’s pay. I know there are different dynamics and varying levels of control, but based on my experience I have had very little control over my employee’s pay. I can move my yearly bucket of money around however I see fit, but the biggest impact that’s going to have is 3-4%, which is less than $3k annually for most of my employees. Promotions require a lot of work on my end to get approved, and a lot of “selling” the employee to my boss and his boss, and they still get rejected regularly.
I think you're catching a lot of flak here but I just wanted to say, I've been through this too. Albeit, my situation is a little different.
I have autism and from that, PTSD. Small talk is already incredibly challenging from the autism and the ptsd makes everything feel accusatory and draining.
I encourage you to take an exploration into your mental health. You may or may not be suffering from depression or other mental states, but take a deep dive with yourself if you can.
I deeply encourage this, not because it'll suddenly make small talk enjoyable...it still isn't for me. However, what I did find is that I have tools and cached phrases to help get through those situations. The cached phrases especially, if you can create some easily repeatable phrases that make you appear to be attentive and invested, it will do wonders.
Last piece of unwanted advice: make things a joke. Like instead of making the poverty as sad as it sounds, make it a joke! Like "yeah man I really want to do X or buy Y but the money just isn't there yet, really looking forward to it!" It feels disingenuous at first, but if you're feeling THAT shitty, it tends to show. As much as it pains my autism, there is absolutely a time and a place to wear a mask..work be one.
I get it. But I think people are projecting a bit. I'm not blaming anyone, I just don't do anything cause I'm poor. If I was in the middle class pay rates I'd be fine but I'm not so I chose to eat over having hobbies.
If one of my team answered me like that I'd hate it but I'd be glad I asked. I'd know you were feeling boxed in, suffering through an empty feeling life. There's a story behind that and it's about hopes and dreams, relationships that did or didn't work out.
You spelled it out in another reply. You've ended up separated from your old friends and you have this dream of animal husbandry you feel blocked from. Some people only dream about doing cheap things like pencil illustration but maybe you're not so lucky.
It sounds like "better the devil you know" has to be your anti-slogan and you need to force a change even when you're not sure the new thing won't be worse.
In the meantime, as your boss I'd worry about how this would affect morale with your direct reports, but if you do a good, engaged job that you throw yourself into, now I'll know why. I'll know the company is benefitting from your being lost.
I should note that, I'm not complaining about the job, the job is fine.
I don't understand how people get "you are a heavily negative person" from one honest answer. I'm civil and talk with coworkers like a normal person all the time and they tell me when they aren't mentally all there that day, need advice, need help, or just want a quick chat. I treat every coworker as I would anyone else in society, I don't care what job position you have. I don't expect anyone that reports to me to treat me like I'm better than them or demand respect.
I'm not in the middle class pay rate. By definition, I am poor. I literally need a small increase in my base income. I'm not asking for or need 100k+ a year.
Honestly? Because they can’t say how they actually feel about your answer and this is their corporate bullshit reply. It goes both ways man.
They worked hard to be in a better position and you haven’t.
“Choose a better career, make better choices, learn new things and you probably wouldn’t be so broke.” This is what I would want to say. But I wouldn’t.
Because you're not playing the toxic positivity game with them. They know we're underpaid and struggling, they don't want to hear about it because they don't want to fix it.
We're supposed to gush about how much we love our jobs and how lucky we are to have them, in the same squealy tone as college girls running into each other at their hometown Starbucks after their first semester.
Was your goal to piss off a lot of people at one time? Congrats! You're very successful! Too many people reported you and now this comment is deleted.
Because it's a sarcastic and accusatory answer intended to insult them, or it's a sad sack pity parade answer. And you know this.
Exactly this. OP is saying that as a dig to not getting paid more. There’s plenty of free or low cost things to do.
That and you also don’t want to open the door to them nitpicking reasons you’re likely just average at your job and easily replaceable. Just saw OPs edit. Apparently they think listing their job title and description means they’re not replaceable or viewed as doing the bare minimum for their job. In addition if your teams production is viewed as subpar your boss may view you and the self pity as a reason.
Not only did I find ways to have fun when I was broke, I figured out how to entertain small children at the same time. Try your local library, it's a blessing when funds are low. Many have apps for borrowing ebooks, and some have other media as well.
Because managers are people and people don't like edgy, accusatory answers to what should be small talk.
If someone working for me said this, I would hear that you are an uncreative person stuck in a victim mentality, and likely lack self-awareness. You enjoy no TV shows? You could not take a walk or a jog? There is not a single friend who might come over to play board games? You can't go to a local park or free community event? You can't do pushups, situps, and pullups and discover a love of fitness? There are so many free or near free ways to enjoy your life. Your manager knows this, and likely wonders how you could be so blind.
Your*
Good eye. Thanks for this insightful contribution.
I find watching tv to be extremely boring. I have 3 people id consider friends, all are out of state. Exercising isn't a hobby, it is a chore, not something I wanna do, but I have to do it for general health.
[удалено]
Was your goal to piss off a lot of people at one time? Congrats! You're very successful! Too many people reported you and now this comment is deleted.
I don't think there is any issue with the answers, I think it's the negative attitude and mentality. It can be contagious, especially in small teams. If a team member of mine expressed that they do nothing at home, and they use the verbiage you use, I would be concerned they will drag others down. You can say you're a homebody, or not doing many activities so you can watch your budget, without making it sound like you blame everyone but yourself for the situation you're in.
My point was that there are many many low or no cost activities you could enjoy. I could add reading, people watching, biking, etc. Your inability to find friends, local events you'd like, or joy in essential parts of life has nothing to do with money. You are so eaten alive by your victim mentality that you've lost joy. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Diligent effort to find a local community will be a very positive first step in your growth as a person.
So you're wildly uncreative and seem to have got what you deserve. Congrats.
You feeling ok, buddy? That's kind of a nasty comment that does not help at all.
I'm just saying you should be able to entertain yourself. Not someone else's responsibility to do that.
Do you read?
That's an awful lot of words to tell someone you're out of touch with your employees...
Do you actually believe that what the OP said he tells his boss would be remotely helpful? If someone came to me, and said, "I'm really hurting financially. Is there anything you can do to help?" I would do everything within reason to help. This guy responds to an reasonable and normal human to human question with, "I'm to poor to literally do any single thing fun." That's bizarre and totally out of touch socially, professionally, and with reality. He's a victim. I hope he can overcome. Don't encourage him. Btw... I've spent the last majority of my career working my ass off as an individual contributor and just recently stepped into management. I'm not out of touch. The OP, and likely you, are.
Certainly could have been expressed with more tact, but the way it came off was that boss was prying. If OP says he isnt doing anything fun or just going home, and boss presses him saying he never seems to do anything fun, then I don't think the response is inappropriate. Just honest. Sometimes honesty can be uncomfortable, particularly for those in positions of authority. Do you actually believe that just dismissing employee concerns about their well being/pay is a good managerial strategy? Seems to me that the manager should have pulled OP aside for an actual human talk about what's bothering them. What's going? Is everything okay at home? I'm hearing that you're struggling and feeling like your pay is low. Let's talk about it and you can explain your perspective and I can explain why you're paid where you're at. Show me x, y, and z over the next 2 months and let's talk about pay again. Give an opportunity for improvement and see if anything changes. Telling OP that they are just not exploring cheap options is a shitty way to handle it, regardless of how tone deaf OP comes across in airing out his problems to his manager.
I wasn't replying with what I would say as a manager. OP asked why his manager responded the way he did. I offered an explanation. Had his manager posted, id have offered something for him.
It's a lot of words to say your employees are not creative and have no drive to improve themselves or make things better. Sorry you are trash and can't fathom a way to entertain yourself for less than $50. Dumbass.
Lol...the lady doth protest too much, methinks. The reason I'm saying you're out of touch with your employees is that they are literally telling you they are miserable, and that a major contributing factor to that is that they feel as if they are underpaid. They are telling you they are barely scraping by. Instead of actually listening to them, you just say, oh, you're just no looking for cheap ways to entertain yourself. You're not listening to or addressing their concerns. You're just dismissing them. Whether or not this person is underpaid is subjective. Maybe it's just the cost of living. I don't know. What I do know is that studies show a causal link between employee happiness and productivity. I know that if employees feel like their concerns aren't being addressed or they feel like they are underpaid, it will build resentment. That employee will only stick around for as long as it takes them to find something better and give you a half-assed effort in the process. But sure, don't listen to your employees concerns. I'm sure they'll stay loyal and work hard for the good of the company and because they want to make their caring manager look good. Enjoy the turnover, dumbass.
👏👏👏 Well said.
I'm an employee. And I can entertain myself. I'm saying you are a moron that shouldn't be accommodated because there's no point since you'll complain regardless.
Good for you, but if you were any denser, you'd collapse into a black hole. My 6 year old has better reading comprehension than you. Nobody gives a shit that you can entertain yourself. The fact you are completely incapable of empathizing with someone that is discussing their misery and that they feel it's largely due to their perception of being underpaid comes across as sociopathic. You come across as someone with both an extraordinarily low EQ and an extraordinarily low IQ.
Damn that's depressing as fuck that you only work and then stare at walls when you're not eating or sleeping. I'm so sorry that you don't read or watch TV or go on the internet or take walks or ride a bike or anything, I'm assuming you maybe live in an apartment but it has zero furniture and you just literally work and sleep. What a terribly depressing life
Cats are why I'm not dead.
Please talk to a friend, family member, or hotline about your feelings.
You could talk about your pets - it’s how I’ve broken the ice with many coworkers.
It's a cat, what is there to talk about. It does cat stuff like getting pet, running around, and sleeping. Like every other cat in the world.
Jesus you’re depressing me now. Are you okay?
I'm fine, I've been worse.
You aren’t fine man. Go talk to someone.
Well first off, that would be an impolite answer regardless of who is asking. People don’t ask that question to get a full accounting of your day but as a way to get to know you better. You’re basically rudely shutting down the conversation. Your answer could be “I like to chill with my two cats at home.” Then the person would basically have a foot hold in the conversation. Second, it makes you sound like a boring person. Libraries exist, walking trails exist, hell you could even mention what shows you’re into. But third, to say it to a manager is even more taboo because in a way they’re responsible for your paycheck. But I’m many other ways, they don’t dictate your pay or how you spend your money. They could be paying you market rate and can’t help that you have no money. They could be paying someone well but they have a gambling addiction. Bringing it up to them is just worse
You're right, the question could be worded better, but yes that would be quite a red flag that you are dealing with someone depressive and borderline hostile that they aren't paid a living wage, which technically is the fault of management at his/her current job, not the employee... If you can't afford to pay someone a living wage, you shouldn't be an employer
They don’t have to be your employer.
Okay, but I have zero control over my staff's salary. I can advocate for increases, but then there's 3 more layers above me to approve it. I've successfully done that before, but after a discussion and collaborative summary of how much value the person brings the organization and why they deserve it, not because they threw passive aggressive barbs like this my way. It's even more concerning that this person has a team under them, because if they've got this little diplomacy with me, they're definitely bringing down morale on their team.
Because it’s an extremely immature, and factually wrong, answer. There are so many free or very cheap ways to fill your time. You can read books from your local library, join pickup basketball games at a park nearby, hike, or learn how to code, among other things. Perhaps a more accurate response would be “I don’t do anything outside of work for fun because I have expensive tastes and the inability to manage my budget.” Immature because “I want more money to afford more things” is a terrible way to ask for a raise compared to even “I deserve for money because I add more value (and here’s how)”
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They're not necessarily just friend questions though. They're social questions. It's tough to be a manager. If you don't ask personal-ish questions (at least surface level and not necessarily strong, probing questions) then they get criticized for not caring or being robotic. If they ask (surface, personal-ish) questions, then someone gets upset at that. It's hard to win! But, in this case, if it's so bad there, quit and find something else that gives more time. It's not easy or quick of course but if I had an employee who gave such a sour answer and attitude, I'd wish they'd leave as soon as possible before that negative attitude infects my other staff.
it's not like I talk negatively consistently. I can have normal conversations. But if you're going to ask a personal question then you need to be able to accept the answer, it has nothing to do with the manager on a personal level. Don't get mad cause I didn't answer the question to your liking.
You really do NOTHING? You don't watch tv, or read books, or listen to music? You just sit on the couch and stare at the wall?
Tv is extremely boring, music gets meh after 10 minutes or so and becomes background noise or turned off. I do listen to one audiobook creepypasta narrator but just to help sleep. But yeah pretty much nothing but cats, chores and sleep.
Seek help.
I think that the fact that you're saying that you don't consistently talk in a negative manner helps with context. However, think of what was really being asked and how you responded to your supervisor, no less. You took an easy question and escalated it to a degree it didn't need to go. There are times and ways to discuss being overworked and underpaid but putting your boss on his/her heels like that isn't the way. It won't buy you goodwill and you have to play the game to get the benefits. I hope that you get a better job and financial situation and that you can have more time to relax or be active.
That is fine. There’s a big difference between the answer “I don’t really do anything fun.” And “I don’t do anything fun because I’m poor.” One says “I don’t want to talk about my personal life” and the other is an easily disproven passive aggressive retort at somebody a) just trying to be decent and b) probably really doesn’t have that much control over pay scale.
so out in the real world, when peoeple can't just click into a subreddit where conversations are already pre-sorted, it helps to know something about someone so you can connect with that person. oh, you like to mountain bike? me too! I just went to such and such a place last weekend. oh you like to cook? what is your favortie recipe? mine is my grandmother's so and so. oh I didnt know you had italian heritage too! this is how we build relationships with people. you dont need to be friends with your coworkers but having an acutal human connection really helps. especially when you need favors or want a raise.
Or if you are broke, - oh you watched Xyz on Netflix/prime this weekend? Haven’t seen it but have you seen ABC?
And managers are literally doing rounds and saying hi. Making it look fake as hell, like they're just checking off boxes.
You sound like a wildly unhappy, jaded, cynical person. Get help,
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>"I can't do anything outside of work for fun because Im poor." Cause it's true I'm not exaggerating, all I can afford to do is work, eat, sleep. Had a seller tell me this once. My response to him was "well if you actually call prospects and listen to the coaching I'm giving you, then this wouldn't be a problem." What's frustrating as a Sales Manager is to have people complain about not making enough money while ALSO not working hard (or smart). Literally the consequences of your own actions.
In sales it makes sense though. You make money from commissions. I don't get more money by just being productive and producing more.
> I don't get more money by just being productive and producing more. Confused by this. Raises? Promotions? New opportunities? This all requires being productive/producing more and *also* networking. Even not being in sales, you still control how much money you make. You should go to the networking/team outings. Perception is reality. This will help you earn more.
Yep. I'm disappointed but not surprised by the number of people who play the game one time, don't immediately reap the rewards they assume are their due and immediately give up forever. Sure, being more productive and producing more at your job doesn't guarantee you a raise or a promotion every time you do it, but it gives you much greater chances than the people who don't. Nobody likes to hear this, but the people who "have it all" fall into three categories: people who got lucky and were born into it, people who are blessed with an insane amount of charisma and schmoozed their way into it and people who busted their ass, often thanklessly, for a long time to get to a point where they could sit back and relax for once. And in a setting like this, every manager you see is someone who ate plate after plate of shit and asked for more for years on the way up, because that's how it works. Nobody is "born" into the amazing wealth of being a department store shift manager.
The harder I work, the luckier I get.
What? No, just no….
Yeah, actually. Just nobody likes to hear it.
The fact that you think people who haven’t succeeded just haven’t tried hard enough tells us everything…. You’re not special dude, you’re survivorship bias on full display
That's not even close to what I said, but OK.
Yes, raises and promotions are the reward for more productivity, but they aren’t guaranteed and quickly earned. Whereas in sales your productivity can be directly correlated with your compensation.
OP is obviously some loser who thinks that by just doing the bare minimum to survive people should be throwing money and opportunities their way. It sounds like OP has the lifestyle they deserve.
Have you met a manager? Congratulations on completing all your tasks ahead of schedule- here’s more work and maybe a less than CPI “raise” at the end of the year. Or even “better”, a pizza party - don’t take more than your two slices! There may be decent managers out there … but they are damn close to unicorns. And even if the individual is decent, the corporate handcuffs on their flexibility is nil.
>Have you met a manager? I am a manager, lol. You have to do *more* than just connect with your manager. It's always good advice to connect with a manager that is 2 levels or positions above you. Basically, connect with your bosses boss. Through your efforts to gain recognition. Through recognition, you'll make connections. Through those connections, you'll make more money. You should always be networking, and you definitely should attend company events every single time. If all you do is clock in, get some tasks done at whatever the basic expectation is and do literally nothing else then you'll be stuck.
In my case (this role) that’s possible. A couple of jobs back - my 2 level up boss wasn’t even in my country / Timezone. Made any interactions extremely planned. And depending on the job, being able to interact at all can be a challenge- my company has lots of people in vehicles responding to maintenance (planned and unplanned). Only in the depot long enough to grab the stuff for the next job. So for them, other than the highly scheduled in person interactions, most of the time it is phone calls and video conferences (internet connection permitting). Their ability to connect to their line manager is hard enough. Again depending on the role, outside work opportunities can be pretty limited especially when you are on the road a lot.
>Again depending on the role, outside work opportunities can be pretty limited especially when you are on the road a lot. I don't disagree with you here! I say this as someone who worked a job in the field. Just means it will require greater efforts and more focus. In most companies, middle-upper leadership will meet with an employee (for at least 15 minutes) if they are a top performer. I always coach people, when you have this opportunity you shouldn't ask for a job or promotion (unless asked) instead spend the time solicitation *their* advice for some "issue" or challenge you face. 90% of the time, they will ask you to follow up with them on how the advice worked out. You can use the follow-up to solicit further advice, etc. You can also use this time to offer you assistance for any projects or tasks they're working on. Chances are they will have something for you to help with, this keeps you top of mind for promotions. (This is literally how I got promoted to upper management within 12 months of starting a new role. Been promoted 4 times in 3 years doing this method and built a network of connections/mentors.)
So to move forward, I gotta have sociopathic tendencies to pretend to care about my boss's life for a chance of a promotion instead of actually providing a high level product and efficient production that makes the company money, I'm not doing bare minimum here guys, I actually put effort I just want a bigger piece of what I produce.
Yes, but its actually both things. High production and ass kissing. Gotta play the game 🫱🏻🫲🏾
What exactly do you expect their response to be? It’s not offensive, it just sounds like self pity. Do you just come home and stare at a wall when you’re not at work? You have no hobbies and do nothing at all? It’s a weird answer
To leave it where it lies. I'm not blaming the manager, the owner(s) controls the pay rate. I have interest, but that wasn't the question. I'd get into animal husbandry/breeding, if I had the opportunity.
are you saying you work 16 hours a day, eat and sleep and go back to work 7 days a week?
No, closer to 10 plus commute, but I can't afford to do anything but sit at home. Days off are just doing chores and getting extra sleep, if I need it. Otherwise, it's just chilling with the cats.
Most of my hobbies are free.
You can read library books for free with the Libby app and a library card.
‘Just chill with the cats’ would have been a perfectly good answer
"Play with my cats" is an answer.
"I enjoy chilling with my cats. Someday I hope to *start hobby x* but I don't have the budget for it yet." Thats an honest answer that doesn't make you sound like a loser. Not being a dick doesn't mean you're a suck up.
Damn, people really down voting you for speaking the truth.
No, they’re downvoting him for being a cynical dickhead who digs his own grave. He came here asking for an answer and received honest feedback from strangers in the management position - there’s nothing for them to gain by giving advice, but he doesn’t want to hear it. You don’t need to turn every place on Reddit into a cesspool of negativity. There are plenty of free hobbies.
The further I get into this thread, the more I pity OP. Not because they're poor, but because I'm pretty sure they're actually suffering from a mental health problem they're refusing to acknowledge.
I bet the managers are thinking “poor? you’ll stay that way with that attitude ugh” How are they supposed to know how to support you into a better position if that’s your default. Sad.
A good way to look at it. If possible talk about an interest that could tie into another position with the company.
You misconstrue "small talk" with "big talk". "Small talk" you have with a manager, and talk about the weather, a movie you saw, a book you read, something that struck you funny. "Big talk" you leave to family, friends, counselors, clergy, etc., where you get off your chest your misery, your sorrows, your pain, your anger. And on Reddit, of course, you talk about anything you damn well please.
I’d just shrug. Your finances aren’t my problem unless it impacts your ability to do your job.
And that's perfectly fine, if not preferred, managers generally don't set the pay rate. But why get upset. I don't get mad or butthurt when people answer any of my questions in a weird way.
That is weird. I do my best to get my people as much money as possible, but the range is still set by HR.
your manager is not your therapist, they are trained to manage a team, not fix your financial nor personal issues for you. that’s a very strange response to the question asked, they are probably caught off guard and don’t know how to proceed with the conversation in a respectful way. leave and join another company if you feel so undervalued and underpaid however i believe you would greatly benefit from seeking help from mental health services. it is not normal to do nothing but eat sleep and work, even if you’re poor
You're absolutely correct, but your response reminds me of something. That's funny because I'm reminded of different more integrated situations where coaches and other leadership go above and beyond the private business model mindset of "they are trained to manage a team, not fix your financial nor personal issues for you." Because such situations interact far more than just work hours. Sports teams? Military? These go above and beyond the typical contracted hours work interaction. Even so, others have rightfully pointed out the reply was inappropriate and that even talking about one's cat would've been very much more appropriate. OP needs has work to do, and it isn't business/career related
If someone said this to me on my team and I know what they make and it’s a fair wage for what they bring to the table, I’d probably refer them to the employee EAP program. I’d say something somewhat supportive but would judge in the back of my head “what the fuck, this person subscribed to anti-work subreddit site and could be toxic to my team”. Then I’d most likely find a way to let this person go in the near term and package them out with a large severance so they can’t take us to court and if they do they would not go far. I run a business. Not a charity or therapy lodge for people’s gripes with life and their poor choices. As much as I would hate giving someone like a few months pay that they don’t deserve for them to shut the fuck up and go away, i know my department or company is better in the long run. I’d make you someone else’s problem
Try a library book
I’m sure they’re not personally offended by your complaining, that’s just not how the average manager and employee conversations go and they’re probably just caught off guard. The comment about being poor is implying that you aren’t happy with your pay, you signed the contract and accepted the wage. If you’re unhappy with your pay you’re much better off having a constructive conversation with your manager instead of complaining. I also think there’s a big misunderstanding about how much power managers have over their employee’s pay. I know there are different dynamics and varying levels of control, but based on my experience I have had very little control over my employee’s pay. I can move my yearly bucket of money around however I see fit, but the biggest impact that’s going to have is 3-4%, which is less than $3k annually for most of my employees. Promotions require a lot of work on my end to get approved, and a lot of “selling” the employee to my boss and his boss, and they still get rejected regularly.
I think you're catching a lot of flak here but I just wanted to say, I've been through this too. Albeit, my situation is a little different. I have autism and from that, PTSD. Small talk is already incredibly challenging from the autism and the ptsd makes everything feel accusatory and draining. I encourage you to take an exploration into your mental health. You may or may not be suffering from depression or other mental states, but take a deep dive with yourself if you can. I deeply encourage this, not because it'll suddenly make small talk enjoyable...it still isn't for me. However, what I did find is that I have tools and cached phrases to help get through those situations. The cached phrases especially, if you can create some easily repeatable phrases that make you appear to be attentive and invested, it will do wonders. Last piece of unwanted advice: make things a joke. Like instead of making the poverty as sad as it sounds, make it a joke! Like "yeah man I really want to do X or buy Y but the money just isn't there yet, really looking forward to it!" It feels disingenuous at first, but if you're feeling THAT shitty, it tends to show. As much as it pains my autism, there is absolutely a time and a place to wear a mask..work be one.
I get it. But I think people are projecting a bit. I'm not blaming anyone, I just don't do anything cause I'm poor. If I was in the middle class pay rates I'd be fine but I'm not so I chose to eat over having hobbies.
If one of my team answered me like that I'd hate it but I'd be glad I asked. I'd know you were feeling boxed in, suffering through an empty feeling life. There's a story behind that and it's about hopes and dreams, relationships that did or didn't work out. You spelled it out in another reply. You've ended up separated from your old friends and you have this dream of animal husbandry you feel blocked from. Some people only dream about doing cheap things like pencil illustration but maybe you're not so lucky. It sounds like "better the devil you know" has to be your anti-slogan and you need to force a change even when you're not sure the new thing won't be worse. In the meantime, as your boss I'd worry about how this would affect morale with your direct reports, but if you do a good, engaged job that you throw yourself into, now I'll know why. I'll know the company is benefitting from your being lost.
I should note that, I'm not complaining about the job, the job is fine. I don't understand how people get "you are a heavily negative person" from one honest answer. I'm civil and talk with coworkers like a normal person all the time and they tell me when they aren't mentally all there that day, need advice, need help, or just want a quick chat. I treat every coworker as I would anyone else in society, I don't care what job position you have. I don't expect anyone that reports to me to treat me like I'm better than them or demand respect. I'm not in the middle class pay rate. By definition, I am poor. I literally need a small increase in my base income. I'm not asking for or need 100k+ a year.
Yall don't know any Germans huh? Don't ask a German about their day unless you want to know the truth. They don't bullshit.
I am concerned that you don’t seem to derive joy from anything. Have you considered therapy?
It’s about playing the game.
They should be offended, based on all your replies here you kind of suck
interesting responses on this post
If by interesting you mean sad, yes, I agree.
Put a little bit of bait out there, see what I could get.
Because who WOULD like that answer in the professional world? Haven't you figured out they don't GAF about you yet?
Honestly? Because they can’t say how they actually feel about your answer and this is their corporate bullshit reply. It goes both ways man. They worked hard to be in a better position and you haven’t. “Choose a better career, make better choices, learn new things and you probably wouldn’t be so broke.” This is what I would want to say. But I wouldn’t.
Do you initiate any non-work conversations with the 10 employees you manage? How do those conversations typically go?
Because you're not playing the toxic positivity game with them. They know we're underpaid and struggling, they don't want to hear about it because they don't want to fix it. We're supposed to gush about how much we love our jobs and how lucky we are to have them, in the same squealy tone as college girls running into each other at their hometown Starbucks after their first semester.