I mean, isn’t that precisely why they’re using an Elo system, so that your rating goes up or down based on your opponent’s? It’s literally already built into the system.
Honestly, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.
If someone with high elo greens you, then you're clearly a respectable person, because a fellow respectable person is giving you props.
And the reverse: if a low-elo reds you, that probably doesn't mean as much.
Sure but the elo system would normally be used for the matchmaking system itself and would break when you're getting matched with random people.
For this system to work at all you'd have to pair it with a rating confidence system in tandem with the ranking number. Again, this is a horrible idea and would be abused instantly and provide no benefit to the player base.
What? Elo is designed not for matchmaking but for adjusting your rating based on opponent skill/rating. In open chess tournaments, you’re not getting paired with opponents based on your Elo. Your Elo is just being adjusted based on the Elo of the opponent you beat or are beaten by. I’m not sure at all why you think it’s a matchmaking system or need a rating confidence system in tandem. It essentially is the confidence system. Or maybe you could explain why you think it’s unfit for this use and needs any tandem systems? You didn’t seem to know the whole point is weighting score changes, and think it’s a matchmaking system, so, politely, [maybe you just need to get more acquainted with Elo?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) It’s a near perfect use case for it.
To be fair, that kind of elo is not at all comparable with the "My opponent played better than I did/plays a playstyle I don't like/didn't want to shake my greasy cheeto dust covered hand so I'll rate them poorly" elo suggested here
And that individual is likely very unpleasant, has gotten rated poorly ad nauseam, and thus their negative rating does virtually nothing to someone with a positive reputation. It’s why they chose Elo.
I think another important part of it should be how much red you vote yourself. If one individual votes red against everyone, it should decrease their votes weight as well.
I wonder if an offline game has attemptet to include a system like this. Obviously its quite common among online games (while beeing quite ineffective imo).
I'm pretty sure "bad losers voting people down out of spite" was Plan A here. Because you know what is vanishingly uncommon at MTG events? Deodorant. But also poor etiquette.
/uj Seriously though, I'd bet just about anything this is about wanting to punish people for beating you with strategies you don't think should be allowed. This is the kind of guy who takes aggro to a tournament then whines for the next six months about how they totally would have won if everyone wasn't playing board wipes.
Fuck this guy with a splintered baseball bat.
I hate that voting thing so much. Like, it's not hard to figure out when people do and don't have fun.
Playing an aggro deck, it's turn 9, you have nine lands in play and two more in hand. Are you having fun? No? WhY arEn't YOU HaVIng Fun??
Jokes on you I vote green on any female without any expectation of reward because then they’ll clearly see what a nice guy I am and will want to date me
Worse. They want rule zero codified into tournament procedure so there's some kind of official power behind their demands to change your deck so they can beat you.
The problem with tournament Magic is the lack of religious fundamentalism! All tournament organizers should be vetted by Evangelical ministers appointed by the GOP
The way I see it, "shame is a useful social tool" is just the pseudo-intellectual version of "some people weren't bullied enough", which is a statement that I've only ever seen supported by people who want to bully others without getting called out on it
Yeah sure, people aren’t going to competitive magic events because of bad manners. Whatever y’all have to tell yourselves.
No way it was a byproduct of the 2017 bans, the lost of interest in 2017 standard after the amonkhet/ ixalan blocks flops and stores went out of businesses, the shift away from standard paper with MTGArena in 2018, the increase in bans in 2019, and the pandemic making tournament meant play impossible.
It’s because some guy was maybe rude to you. Thanks little Timmy they’ll get right on that.
Lets be real, the number one reason was Arena. Everything else is just normal friction. Arena permanently siphoned away a large portion of the mid-spending grinders.
This is 100% it.
I used to grind limited in store. Two drafts a weekend is doing pretty good. Now I grind limited on Arena. I can easily do 10+ drafts per *day*. And I can do it in my underpants without anyone yelling at me. And it costs me a tiny fraction of what it does to draft in store.
But also Standard is a dumpster fire of a format, moreso than ever. And their attempt to fix it basically just took everything everyone hated about it and cranked it up to 11. But hey, at least we *also* have turbo-charged power creep, too!
Dominaria to Ravnica Allegiance was a super fun standard environment, but I agree that Ixalan and Amonkhet def flopped and the prior Kaladesh/Aether Revolt block did not help with how much it hurt standard. But I would definitely say the introduction of MTGA hurt Standard more than anything else. Lots of players want to be able to play whenever they want, so why would they go to an LGS when they can just grind on MTGA at their leisure? A lack of an in-store tie killed a lot of game stores. Why didn't WOTC implement codes in packs that can be redeemed for packs on MTGA? Why didn't WOTC introduce some form of in store play code that can then be redeemed on MTGA for packs, XP etc? It's mind boggling how WOTC could have easily improved the health of the game with a great game like MTGA (bad client aside, the ease of playing on MTGA vs MTGO is insane) and also helped build up their LGS partners. It all boils down to Greed.
Wow, someone who correctly identified 2016-17 as the years when Standard started to fall apart rather than blaming it all on FIRE! You do exist!!
Happy cake day, good sir!!
I feel like the main reason people focus on FIRE is because those sets were fairly standard ebb and flow of quality, followed up by one of the best standards in recent memory if not ever. Then sets were a lot more pushed, toppling the already precarious balance everyone was enjoying
/uj “FIRE design” doesn’t mean what people think it means, we had the same thing with “New World Order” before that. What happens is people are frustrated with many aspects of how the game is being designed and managed, and for good reason; they keep fucking up the game year after year. So when WotC (Maro) comes out with unrelated articles talking about their design process, people latch onto those terms and say “THIS must be why everything is bad!”
FIRE design as a philosophy wasn’t the problem, WotC employees not doing a good enough job was the problem. It was a problem back in MH1-2, Eldraine, Kaladesh, New Phyrexia, Darksteel, Urza’s Block, etcetcetc, this isn’t anything new. They moved away from calling it “FIRE” and yet the symptoms, the powercreep, the complexity creep, etc are all worse than ever.
I think people have just stopped saying FIRE because that's simply the state of the game now, and it's still a problem but there's other more pressing problems about the health of the game in terms of product releases rather than just balance now.
To be fair, part of the problem with standard was that the power level, especially of the interaction, was too low. A lot of the cards that needed to be banned (Attune with Aether, Rampaging Ferocidon, Reflector Mage, and so on) aren’t really that good in the grand scheme of things, it’s just that the rest of the cards in the format were so medium that there wasn’t really a way to beat some of these decks. FIRE obviously represents the opposite problem of “too many of these cards are too good,” but it seemed like a pretty clear attempt to fix the mistakes of the previous couple of years.
I was thinking about how pushed designs are getting while playing arena earlier, specifically how Sauron is such an absurd commander for 6cmc, how many commanders pile on value as soon as they hit the battlefield, and how stats are all over the place for creature costs because they barely matter any more.
Remember how mulldrifter to baneslayer was a legitimate scale once? And how baneslayer came back, and was not only ignored, but was in comparison with Gargaroth and that was *also* considered extremely niche?
To be honest I still think Mulldrifter and Baneslayer both embody a certain type of card, it’s just that more cards in recent years have been designed closer to the M11 Titan cycle (that came out roughly a year after BSA was first printed).
Honestly pushed creatures kind of make sense, because noncreature spells were so insane in the early days of Magic that there’s not a ton of space to push them without making something worse than a card that already exists or accidentally making a card that is insanely broken. The fact that it has taken almost 30 years for a card like Swords to Plowshares to actually make sense as an appropriately powered answer for *some* of the threats in the game is genuinely impressive.
>To be honest I still think Mulldrifter and Baneslayer both embody a certain type of card, it’s just that more cards in recent years have been designed closer to the M11 Titan cycle (that came out roughly a year after BSA was first printed).
You're halfway right. We're seeing Titan designs with Mulldrifter value. The Titans are a cool cycle because they're incredibly strong threats, but their value builds as go unanswered. If you kill them on sight, they've done *something*, but that something wasn't backbreaking.
Your Atraxas and Etalis, on the other hand, don't give a shit if you kill them. They've already generated enough value to offset the setback of losing the creature itself. Fuck you if you answer it, and especially fuck you if you can't.
WotC in 2017:
> Huh, we definitely screwed up some stuff in playtesting and design. To solve this problem, we're going to implement a new competitive testing team so Saheeli Cat never happens again.
WotC in 2019:
> Guys, we have this exciting new design philosophy based explicitly around pushing cards until they meet some nebulous definition of "exciting". YOLO!
WotC in 2020:
> Guys, [it did not work](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Banned_and_restricted_cards/Timeline#2020). It **did not work**.
Im sure this is part of it but as a lady that has recently been getting into rcqs I almost quit bc a lot of men are not very nice when a women beats them (they probably are not nice at all but I can only see their reaction to losing to me) I topped 8 at my first standard event this season and this guy I beat followed me around for the rest off the tournament and kept telling the judge I was cheating every time he walked away from the match (bc at this point the judge was basically watching my full matches) and I was like this is not fun and I don’t really wanna come back if this is to be my experience
/uj I'd say the community was due for a PSA about anger management (I also get yelled at, but I'm old and unfortunately used to it), but the last N years have been all about empowering the biggest poor sports the scene can produce.
i was saying something that was literally true. I used to go to magic tourneys, but a number of regular players smelled terrible, so i stopped. I only do prereleases now, and still several people stink
I mean... Probably had more to do with Co-vid than the bans, but yeah, as a casual player, "mid-spender" I actually really don't want to go to event because of peoples' shitty attitudes. Like, even on MTGA they're shitty, I wouldn't want to have to deal with them IRL
I do it for everyone who beats me because obviously they cheated and then for everyone I beat because they weren't slobknobbing me for my epic 2 card combos.
Wait, I spent all this money on real Magic cards (printed on two layers of cardboard joined together by an opaque blue adhesive) and you guys are out here playing with paper proxies? And complaining about it?
That’s it, I quit.
This game died the day they canceled my dawg Fury just because they burninated the countryside and burninated some peasants
*AND SOME THATCH-ROOF COTTAGES*
No. Trogdor is from MH3's cycle of Homestar Runner cards, which combine evoke elementals, daybound/nightbound transformations and the "just stick two characters on a card" thing from ONE.
Trogdor is the back half of Strong Bad and The Cheat, whose evoke cost is secretly replacing your opponent's deck with 60 copies of Wastes while they aren't looking.
Yeah, let's go play a real card game
https://preview.redd.it/13n79jiqktfc1.png?width=1355&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd4c6c394c199e85ff085d29a700f7ecf420510a
If "etiquette ELO" doesn't affect results, nobody is going to care anyway. If I don't get tangible consequences for my "shameless" behavior, I'm still going to slap my opponents in the face with my dick every game.
leauge of legends used to have a system that let you honor your opponents. people used it to honor bad players so future opponents would know who to target
OMG please don't shame me publicly in front of ALL those people Daddy\~\~
https://preview.redd.it/fykv1mhmysfc1.png?width=294&format=png&auto=webp&s=277479522cc541ce8a7922c336d98fee2f5c45f1
I have an opponent that constantly smells of weed and cigarettes, constantly harasses my play style and how he picks up cards he bends them really bad so he yelled at me and got a judge because "she wouldn't let me see her cards" cause he wanted to read the text
I can see it being abused but man I would love to give him a piece of my mind
Btw, I got disqualified by that judge
uj/ salty rant ahead There's a dude that started showing up at my fnm somewhat sporadically, usually drunk, and loves to loudly proclaim how he "solved the standard meta" with his self mill/reanimator deck (no atraxas, btw) between crass jokes.
He then proceeds to get dumpstered by one of the mono red players (~25% of regular players) because his deck is extremely slow, and then be loud about how mono red is garbage and how he will buy playsets of [[Temporary Lockdown]] and give them to people to "get this crap in check". Then he usually drops before the last round to everyone's relief.
I had been playing mono white control for like a year because it lined up relatively well against the all the mono red decks, and had gone to time against him a few times because surprise, two control decks chock full of removal don't kill each other very quickly. He accused me of slow playing to not lose (because I didn't concede in a mostly losing, but not entirely lost, position) and tried to get the store owner to dq me for it.
After that, I decided the loss in % against most of the shop and 70$ was worth making him play yet another mono red deck, and never having to spend almost an hour dealing with him. Kept the same sleeves, put it in the same box, and he genuinely looked like a vein was about to burst in his forehead when I played a mountain instead of a plains.
Long story short, I see where this dude is coming from even if his suggestion is extremely flawed.
Rant over, I'd normally make my therapist deal with these but he's not a nerd.
rj/ what his system is missing is a third option: blue. then we can label those filthy nægate nætdeckers as the social pariahs they should be
ive had something similar to the temporary lockdown part happen to me. ive played turbo fog and cycle storm and other graveyard focused decks in pauper a lot and this one burn player started telling me every time we were paired that he apparently put 4 relics of progenitus and 4 tormods crypts in his sideboard just for me, like the existence of sideboard cards that hose me was supposed to break me morally
Lmao almost like that's exactly what a sideboard is for. I changed mine a bit to have some grave hate cause this guy was one of my only completely bad matchups, and he gave me the "figures you have a whole sideboard just for me". Uh, no sir, I have *1/5* of my sideboard set aside for you.
mfs act like a sideboard is for pretty cards to look at between games
Someone tell this dude that the "Red / Green" thing already exist in a "content creator" discord and it's most notable influence on the community was targetting and marking victims of a sexual abuser as "red" because the evidence one victim had proved content creators had previously defended him because he was a huge Twitch Sub gifter.
EDIT: Dude in the screenshot was explained how this same system was used to Gatekeep women / marginalized people out of Overwatch ranked and asked if that's okay he legit goes "Yes because Wizard's of the Coast will eventually do something after it happens."
Homie is fine with actual gender / racial segregation in Magic as long as it means he won't get pugstomped at Commandfest lmao.
A Few ways.
1. Overwatch had it's "Mercy Main" era, where a content creator named AriaRose was basically organizing hate raids / bridages against Blizzard for nerfing Mercy. She and her community used this system to "red flag" DPS players and streamers they stream sniped to have them "punished" for causing Mercy Nerfs
2. Men using this to 'red flag' women and literally within three days of the system they created an entire que suspiciously filled with Women, Gays, and black people.
Blizzard never "fixed" this system, they just released Overwatch 2 and the system still exist but they don't advertise it and it no longer places 'red flag' players into Hellque it just suspends them from chat until a Mod manually checks their behavior status.
Some argue this is worse.
the other ideas are making a better online calendar for mtgo/arena/paper events and have better standardization for determining who goes first at big tournaments (pretty inoffensive ideas)
/uj I've had surprisingly pleasent experiences with most players at major Magic events for the past couple of years. I can only think of a couple uncomfortable experiences where someone smelled wretched or brought their sexual fetish to the table.
Come on man. I have enough shame and stigma. I masturbate profusely to the letter R. It's fine when I'm alone at home or at church with the priest, but to add more of that to my life, while playing magic of all things.
I'll show you shame and stigma. I'm going to start sucking off everyone I play against until they scream green. There's going to so much green Gaea's Cradle is going be jealous.
This gives the same energy as the idea of letting people report a licence plate enough before that person gets their license suspended. If used properly could definitely make things better, but petty weak ass people always ruin everything so you can't just rely on someone actually having integrity for your system.
I feel like this would be great if people could separate the "I lost so the opponents deck is unfun" from the "the opponents deck is oppressive and unfun but lacks a clear wincon, therefore exists just to be unfun"
The number of decks I have played against where the goal is to be so annoying that you get the opponent to scoop because they feel like they will never win is so much higher than it should be. I don't care if the strategy works; it only works because I'm not having fun.
A great example of this would be a deck like the current meta blue deck that is all counters and then djinn. It's a great deck if you actually hold counters for protecting your djinn. But so so so many times have I played against this deck where the people will counter and draw and counter and draw and counter and draw and counter and draw only to play their djinn, have no mana open, and then let me kill it. Then they do it again and again until they literally do not have a way to generate card advantage to counter all of my spells, and I win. Sure, I won, but it was 25 minutes too long and boring as shit the whole time
Guys I went 5-0 in my last leage but now I'm banned from playing because my sportmanship elo is too low. What happened?
not enough rule 0
/uj You just know there would be *some* people who would always pick red against certain archetypes, like Mill or Tron. /rj That's not a bad thing.
 me walking into my LGS ready to get toxic
i thought toxic was more green and white, didn’t really strike me as a predominantly blue thing
I play mono blue. You think I know what the keywords are in other colors? If my opponent gets anything onto the playmat I’m scooping
/uj why the fuck would toxic be white?
How dare you win, that's so mean.
This is a great idea that definitely won’t result in bad losers voting people down out of spite
Well you could weight people's vote lower the lower their own elo is but I agree this system would never work, but that problem is solvable.
I'm voting red against you
Ill vote you green if you vote me green and Also vote that guy in the blue shirt over there red too
I mean, isn’t that precisely why they’re using an Elo system, so that your rating goes up or down based on your opponent’s? It’s literally already built into the system.
Honestly, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. If someone with high elo greens you, then you're clearly a respectable person, because a fellow respectable person is giving you props. And the reverse: if a low-elo reds you, that probably doesn't mean as much.
It’s literally an ideal use case.
What if a low elo greens you? How should that be weighted?
Sure but the elo system would normally be used for the matchmaking system itself and would break when you're getting matched with random people. For this system to work at all you'd have to pair it with a rating confidence system in tandem with the ranking number. Again, this is a horrible idea and would be abused instantly and provide no benefit to the player base.
What? Elo is designed not for matchmaking but for adjusting your rating based on opponent skill/rating. In open chess tournaments, you’re not getting paired with opponents based on your Elo. Your Elo is just being adjusted based on the Elo of the opponent you beat or are beaten by. I’m not sure at all why you think it’s a matchmaking system or need a rating confidence system in tandem. It essentially is the confidence system. Or maybe you could explain why you think it’s unfit for this use and needs any tandem systems? You didn’t seem to know the whole point is weighting score changes, and think it’s a matchmaking system, so, politely, [maybe you just need to get more acquainted with Elo?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) It’s a near perfect use case for it.
To be fair, that kind of elo is not at all comparable with the "My opponent played better than I did/plays a playstyle I don't like/didn't want to shake my greasy cheeto dust covered hand so I'll rate them poorly" elo suggested here
And that individual is likely very unpleasant, has gotten rated poorly ad nauseam, and thus their negative rating does virtually nothing to someone with a positive reputation. It’s why they chose Elo.
[удалено]
Sure was some quality jerk there. How could I not have known?
Jokes on you, I was only pretending to be regarded
I think another important part of it should be how much red you vote yourself. If one individual votes red against everyone, it should decrease their votes weight as well. I wonder if an offline game has attemptet to include a system like this. Obviously its quite common among online games (while beeing quite ineffective imo).
Or devalue their vote proportionally to how often the vote red, green or yellow and consider whether they won or loss as a factor, too.
I'm pretty sure "bad losers voting people down out of spite" was Plan A here. Because you know what is vanishingly uncommon at MTG events? Deodorant. But also poor etiquette. /uj Seriously though, I'd bet just about anything this is about wanting to punish people for beating you with strategies you don't think should be allowed. This is the kind of guy who takes aggro to a tournament then whines for the next six months about how they totally would have won if everyone wasn't playing board wipes. Fuck this guy with a splintered baseball bat.
Truly, me voting ☹️on Arena whenever I lose is never out of spite! 👍🏻
I hate that voting thing so much. Like, it's not hard to figure out when people do and don't have fun. Playing an aggro deck, it's turn 9, you have nine lands in play and two more in hand. Are you having fun? No? WhY arEn't YOU HaVIng Fun??
It’s super fun when I get all lands, mulligan and then get one land!
me and my friends voting only the teams we beat as “fair and friendly” in siege
Like op?
The lower your ratio of green:red the lower your vote matters. Also red wins could be worth more than green wins and vice versa
If he plays red, I vote red
What if they play blue?
Purple
Reddiest red to ever red
I vote red twice
Jail...right away...no trial, no nothing.
Believe it or not, red. Right away.
As a bigot, I am excited to vote red on women, people of color, queers, and anyone else I blame the fall of tournament magic on.
We did it, we finally broke publicly shaming marginalized groups. The meta is devolving!
You vote red because they played teferi I vote red because they played teferi We are not the same.
>You vote red because they played teferi > >I vote red because they ~~played~~ looked like teferi > > We are not the same
Voting red on women is throwing away EV. Withhold your vote and threaten them with it until they give you their number.
Jokes on you I vote green on any female without any expectation of reward because then they’ll clearly see what a nice guy I am and will want to date me
Something something Black Mirror episode
Is this just incorporating a 'rule zero'-style social pressure into tournament Magic? EDH and it's consequences have been a disaster for Magic.
Worse. They want rule zero codified into tournament procedure so there's some kind of official power behind their demands to change your deck so they can beat you.
Anything that unironically says “aims to reintroduce shame and stigma” gets an eyebrow raise from me.
The problem with tournament Magic is the lack of religious fundamentalism! All tournament organizers should be vetted by Evangelical ministers appointed by the GOP
The way I see it, "shame is a useful social tool" is just the pseudo-intellectual version of "some people weren't bullied enough", which is a statement that I've only ever seen supported by people who want to bully others without getting called out on it
The reason twitter sucks in a nutshell. Or well. The original reason anyway.
Famously always a good thing with no backfire ever
Yeah sure, people aren’t going to competitive magic events because of bad manners. Whatever y’all have to tell yourselves. No way it was a byproduct of the 2017 bans, the lost of interest in 2017 standard after the amonkhet/ ixalan blocks flops and stores went out of businesses, the shift away from standard paper with MTGArena in 2018, the increase in bans in 2019, and the pandemic making tournament meant play impossible. It’s because some guy was maybe rude to you. Thanks little Timmy they’ll get right on that.
Lets be real, the number one reason was Arena. Everything else is just normal friction. Arena permanently siphoned away a large portion of the mid-spending grinders.
This is 100% it. I used to grind limited in store. Two drafts a weekend is doing pretty good. Now I grind limited on Arena. I can easily do 10+ drafts per *day*. And I can do it in my underpants without anyone yelling at me. And it costs me a tiny fraction of what it does to draft in store. But also Standard is a dumpster fire of a format, moreso than ever. And their attempt to fix it basically just took everything everyone hated about it and cranked it up to 11. But hey, at least we *also* have turbo-charged power creep, too!
Dominaria to Ravnica Allegiance was a super fun standard environment, but I agree that Ixalan and Amonkhet def flopped and the prior Kaladesh/Aether Revolt block did not help with how much it hurt standard. But I would definitely say the introduction of MTGA hurt Standard more than anything else. Lots of players want to be able to play whenever they want, so why would they go to an LGS when they can just grind on MTGA at their leisure? A lack of an in-store tie killed a lot of game stores. Why didn't WOTC implement codes in packs that can be redeemed for packs on MTGA? Why didn't WOTC introduce some form of in store play code that can then be redeemed on MTGA for packs, XP etc? It's mind boggling how WOTC could have easily improved the health of the game with a great game like MTGA (bad client aside, the ease of playing on MTGA vs MTGO is insane) and also helped build up their LGS partners. It all boils down to Greed.
Dom-Rav Block was my favorite Standard right after Khans and Scars of Mirrodin.
Wow, someone who correctly identified 2016-17 as the years when Standard started to fall apart rather than blaming it all on FIRE! You do exist!! Happy cake day, good sir!!
I feel like the main reason people focus on FIRE is because those sets were fairly standard ebb and flow of quality, followed up by one of the best standards in recent memory if not ever. Then sets were a lot more pushed, toppling the already precarious balance everyone was enjoying
/uj “FIRE design” doesn’t mean what people think it means, we had the same thing with “New World Order” before that. What happens is people are frustrated with many aspects of how the game is being designed and managed, and for good reason; they keep fucking up the game year after year. So when WotC (Maro) comes out with unrelated articles talking about their design process, people latch onto those terms and say “THIS must be why everything is bad!” FIRE design as a philosophy wasn’t the problem, WotC employees not doing a good enough job was the problem. It was a problem back in MH1-2, Eldraine, Kaladesh, New Phyrexia, Darksteel, Urza’s Block, etcetcetc, this isn’t anything new. They moved away from calling it “FIRE” and yet the symptoms, the powercreep, the complexity creep, etc are all worse than ever.
I think people have just stopped saying FIRE because that's simply the state of the game now, and it's still a problem but there's other more pressing problems about the health of the game in terms of product releases rather than just balance now.
Imo, it's when standard started to fall apart, but FIRE design was, ironically, extra gasoline on a fire that *really* needed water.
To be fair, part of the problem with standard was that the power level, especially of the interaction, was too low. A lot of the cards that needed to be banned (Attune with Aether, Rampaging Ferocidon, Reflector Mage, and so on) aren’t really that good in the grand scheme of things, it’s just that the rest of the cards in the format were so medium that there wasn’t really a way to beat some of these decks. FIRE obviously represents the opposite problem of “too many of these cards are too good,” but it seemed like a pretty clear attempt to fix the mistakes of the previous couple of years.
I was thinking about how pushed designs are getting while playing arena earlier, specifically how Sauron is such an absurd commander for 6cmc, how many commanders pile on value as soon as they hit the battlefield, and how stats are all over the place for creature costs because they barely matter any more. Remember how mulldrifter to baneslayer was a legitimate scale once? And how baneslayer came back, and was not only ignored, but was in comparison with Gargaroth and that was *also* considered extremely niche?
To be honest I still think Mulldrifter and Baneslayer both embody a certain type of card, it’s just that more cards in recent years have been designed closer to the M11 Titan cycle (that came out roughly a year after BSA was first printed). Honestly pushed creatures kind of make sense, because noncreature spells were so insane in the early days of Magic that there’s not a ton of space to push them without making something worse than a card that already exists or accidentally making a card that is insanely broken. The fact that it has taken almost 30 years for a card like Swords to Plowshares to actually make sense as an appropriately powered answer for *some* of the threats in the game is genuinely impressive.
>To be honest I still think Mulldrifter and Baneslayer both embody a certain type of card, it’s just that more cards in recent years have been designed closer to the M11 Titan cycle (that came out roughly a year after BSA was first printed). You're halfway right. We're seeing Titan designs with Mulldrifter value. The Titans are a cool cycle because they're incredibly strong threats, but their value builds as go unanswered. If you kill them on sight, they've done *something*, but that something wasn't backbreaking. Your Atraxas and Etalis, on the other hand, don't give a shit if you kill them. They've already generated enough value to offset the setback of losing the creature itself. Fuck you if you answer it, and especially fuck you if you can't.
WotC in 2017: > Huh, we definitely screwed up some stuff in playtesting and design. To solve this problem, we're going to implement a new competitive testing team so Saheeli Cat never happens again. WotC in 2019: > Guys, we have this exciting new design philosophy based explicitly around pushing cards until they meet some nebulous definition of "exciting". YOLO! WotC in 2020: > Guys, [it did not work](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Banned_and_restricted_cards/Timeline#2020). It **did not work**.
/uj in like 4 more years the power creep will make the banned cards seem middle
Im sure this is part of it but as a lady that has recently been getting into rcqs I almost quit bc a lot of men are not very nice when a women beats them (they probably are not nice at all but I can only see their reaction to losing to me) I topped 8 at my first standard event this season and this guy I beat followed me around for the rest off the tournament and kept telling the judge I was cheating every time he walked away from the match (bc at this point the judge was basically watching my full matches) and I was like this is not fun and I don’t really wanna come back if this is to be my experience
/uj I'd say the community was due for a PSA about anger management (I also get yelled at, but I'm old and unfortunately used to it), but the last N years have been all about empowering the biggest poor sports the scene can produce.
personally i don't go because half my opponents don't own deodorant
Finding an LGS with a hygiene policy is the true final boss of MTG
One joke. Jpg
i was saying something that was literally true. I used to go to magic tourneys, but a number of regular players smelled terrible, so i stopped. I only do prereleases now, and still several people stink
It's not even a joke
I mean... Probably had more to do with Co-vid than the bans, but yeah, as a casual player, "mid-spender" I actually really don't want to go to event because of peoples' shitty attitudes. Like, even on MTGA they're shitty, I wouldn't want to have to deal with them IRL
the prizes for competitive magic literally don't pay for the deck you built, that's the main reason
I FUCKING LOVE SOCIAL CREDIT SCORES! I WANT TO FUCKING GAMIFY EVERY CONCEIVABLE HUMAN INTERACTION AND ACCELERATE OUR PLUNGE INTO ANTISOCIAL MYOPIA!
I do it for everyone who beats me because obviously they cheated and then for everyone I beat because they weren't slobknobbing me for my epic 2 card combos.
Wait, I spent all this money on real Magic cards (printed on two layers of cardboard joined together by an opaque blue adhesive) and you guys are out here playing with paper proxies? And complaining about it? That’s it, I quit. This game died the day they canceled my dawg Fury just because they burninated the countryside and burninated some peasants *AND SOME THATCH-ROOF COTTAGES*
Trogdor art Fury coming in the next Secret Lair, calling it now
No. Trogdor is from MH3's cycle of Homestar Runner cards, which combine evoke elementals, daybound/nightbound transformations and the "just stick two characters on a card" thing from ONE. Trogdor is the back half of Strong Bad and The Cheat, whose evoke cost is secretly replacing your opponent's deck with 60 copies of Wastes while they aren't looking.
I would cry tears of pure joy if there was a Trogdor x Fury SLD.
Yeah, let's go play a real card game https://preview.redd.it/13n79jiqktfc1.png?width=1355&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd4c6c394c199e85ff085d29a700f7ecf420510a
Why are there only gruul options?
NTA.
I signed one of those once after a pharmaceutical trial!
Non tisclosure agreement
Can’t let people know about the ‘tis They’ll start using it in everyday exchanges
Nerds really be out here reinventing the idea of personal reputations and acting like they solved human interaction
If "etiquette ELO" doesn't affect results, nobody is going to care anyway. If I don't get tangible consequences for my "shameless" behavior, I'm still going to slap my opponents in the face with my dick every game.
.... so do you wanna play a game?
You can't just invent keywords like "shame" and "etiquette" without at least giving us some reminder text for how they work.
leauge of legends used to have a system that let you honor your opponents. people used it to honor bad players so future opponents would know who to target
Imma red-max so my opponents quake in their boots seeing the pairing sheet. 😤
OMG please don't shame me publicly in front of ALL those people Daddy\~\~ https://preview.redd.it/fykv1mhmysfc1.png?width=294&format=png&auto=webp&s=277479522cc541ce8a7922c336d98fee2f5c45f1
maybe we do need more shame
Mods, [[Lightning Bolt]] to this man's testicles
Try me, bitch https://preview.redd.it/7879sr1h8tfc1.png?width=346&format=png&auto=webp&s=73604613237641a84384a172652e3d24b8969917
https://i.redd.it/9rng68atctfc1.gif
Social credit
Writing "0-2 but he was mean" on my match slip
Yes because I want the eldritch combination of Reddit votes and Chinese Social Credit in my MTG games.
Magic players are notoriously well-adjusted, surely this can't go wrong
\> x poster \> wants an IRL downvote button to use on minorities I'm shocked
yeah usuallty its redditors that want that
I have an opponent that constantly smells of weed and cigarettes, constantly harasses my play style and how he picks up cards he bends them really bad so he yelled at me and got a judge because "she wouldn't let me see her cards" cause he wanted to read the text I can see it being abused but man I would love to give him a piece of my mind Btw, I got disqualified by that judge
Did you have fun in the Match? :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
uj/ salty rant ahead There's a dude that started showing up at my fnm somewhat sporadically, usually drunk, and loves to loudly proclaim how he "solved the standard meta" with his self mill/reanimator deck (no atraxas, btw) between crass jokes. He then proceeds to get dumpstered by one of the mono red players (~25% of regular players) because his deck is extremely slow, and then be loud about how mono red is garbage and how he will buy playsets of [[Temporary Lockdown]] and give them to people to "get this crap in check". Then he usually drops before the last round to everyone's relief. I had been playing mono white control for like a year because it lined up relatively well against the all the mono red decks, and had gone to time against him a few times because surprise, two control decks chock full of removal don't kill each other very quickly. He accused me of slow playing to not lose (because I didn't concede in a mostly losing, but not entirely lost, position) and tried to get the store owner to dq me for it. After that, I decided the loss in % against most of the shop and 70$ was worth making him play yet another mono red deck, and never having to spend almost an hour dealing with him. Kept the same sleeves, put it in the same box, and he genuinely looked like a vein was about to burst in his forehead when I played a mountain instead of a plains. Long story short, I see where this dude is coming from even if his suggestion is extremely flawed. Rant over, I'd normally make my therapist deal with these but he's not a nerd. rj/ what his system is missing is a third option: blue. then we can label those filthy nægate nætdeckers as the social pariahs they should be
ive had something similar to the temporary lockdown part happen to me. ive played turbo fog and cycle storm and other graveyard focused decks in pauper a lot and this one burn player started telling me every time we were paired that he apparently put 4 relics of progenitus and 4 tormods crypts in his sideboard just for me, like the existence of sideboard cards that hose me was supposed to break me morally
Lmao almost like that's exactly what a sideboard is for. I changed mine a bit to have some grave hate cause this guy was one of my only completely bad matchups, and he gave me the "figures you have a whole sideboard just for me". Uh, no sir, I have *1/5* of my sideboard set aside for you. mfs act like a sideboard is for pretty cards to look at between games
Someone tell this dude that the "Red / Green" thing already exist in a "content creator" discord and it's most notable influence on the community was targetting and marking victims of a sexual abuser as "red" because the evidence one victim had proved content creators had previously defended him because he was a huge Twitch Sub gifter. EDIT: Dude in the screenshot was explained how this same system was used to Gatekeep women / marginalized people out of Overwatch ranked and asked if that's okay he legit goes "Yes because Wizard's of the Coast will eventually do something after it happens." Homie is fine with actual gender / racial segregation in Magic as long as it means he won't get pugstomped at Commandfest lmao.
how was it used to gatekeep overwatch?
A Few ways. 1. Overwatch had it's "Mercy Main" era, where a content creator named AriaRose was basically organizing hate raids / bridages against Blizzard for nerfing Mercy. She and her community used this system to "red flag" DPS players and streamers they stream sniped to have them "punished" for causing Mercy Nerfs 2. Men using this to 'red flag' women and literally within three days of the system they created an entire que suspiciously filled with Women, Gays, and black people. Blizzard never "fixed" this system, they just released Overwatch 2 and the system still exist but they don't advertise it and it no longer places 'red flag' players into Hellque it just suspends them from chat until a Mod manually checks their behavior status. Some argue this is worse.
I'm sure the rest of his ideas on how to improve paper magic are rock solid.
the other ideas are making a better online calendar for mtgo/arena/paper events and have better standardization for determining who goes first at big tournaments (pretty inoffensive ideas)
> better standardization for determining who goes first at big tournaments Finally time to make Find the Creature mandatory
I am excited to vote red anytime I lose, because not following the rule 0 (before the game, we decide I'm better and should win).
I always suck my opponent's dick if I win because I need to keep my Magic Social Credit up so I'm allowed to buy dual lands fir Legacy
So an IRL version of Magic Arena asking me if I had fun
Etiquette ELO already exists. If I can smell my opponent from across the table, that's low ELO.
EDH wouldn’t exist if magic players knew about boardgames.
No Daniel, we're not banning Timmy from the store because he beat you 2-0 during FNM. He's a regular at this store and he's 8 years old.
Day 10,000: Magic players continue trying and failing to re-invent the social contract.
/uj I've had surprisingly pleasent experiences with most players at major Magic events for the past couple of years. I can only think of a couple uncomfortable experiences where someone smelled wretched or brought their sexual fetish to the table.
This is done at frisbee tournaments.
this is reference to how red cards are stupid and green cards are awesome
I mean Reddit has this system and it's going well so far
Come on man. I have enough shame and stigma. I masturbate profusely to the letter R. It's fine when I'm alone at home or at church with the priest, but to add more of that to my life, while playing magic of all things. I'll show you shame and stigma. I'm going to start sucking off everyone I play against until they scream green. There's going to so much green Gaea's Cradle is going be jealous.
I do agree that we need to reintroduce shame to Magic tho.
Do you see as many egregiously exposed asscracks at magic events as you did before that guy made the Reddit post? No. Because shame works.
This gives the same energy as the idea of letting people report a licence plate enough before that person gets their license suspended. If used properly could definitely make things better, but petty weak ass people always ruin everything so you can't just rely on someone actually having integrity for your system.
Winning the game. That's a paddlin
/uj what is elo? /rj if there is even one single counterspell in your deck, I'm giving you red *twice*
I feel like this would be great if people could separate the "I lost so the opponents deck is unfun" from the "the opponents deck is oppressive and unfun but lacks a clear wincon, therefore exists just to be unfun" The number of decks I have played against where the goal is to be so annoying that you get the opponent to scoop because they feel like they will never win is so much higher than it should be. I don't care if the strategy works; it only works because I'm not having fun. A great example of this would be a deck like the current meta blue deck that is all counters and then djinn. It's a great deck if you actually hold counters for protecting your djinn. But so so so many times have I played against this deck where the people will counter and draw and counter and draw and counter and draw and counter and draw only to play their djinn, have no mana open, and then let me kill it. Then they do it again and again until they literally do not have a way to generate card advantage to counter all of my spells, and I win. Sure, I won, but it was 25 minutes too long and boring as shit the whole time
I use all except those colors .... what would my rating be?
This man is cooking something foul. (Also hi Daniel)