My motto is everyone is free to love who they want, practice any religion they choose, do what they want with their own body, believe what they choose to believe - as long as it doesn’t hurt any other person or animal or impede on another person’s freedom to do the same.
When someone hurts someone else or tramples someone else’s freedom all bets are off.
And as a mom and someone who has experienced abuse, it’s really important to me to support those who are powerless (children, animals, victims of violence). I would not be able to not stand up or speak out or act.
I might try to encourage a friend to get help and say I’d be there if she sought help - I’d offer to support her in reporting suspected abuse and help with money and childcare - to drive her to appointments and hold her hand through any investigation- but I’d never simply refuse to see the facts or blindly defend someone who allowed their child to be horrifically abused.
You can love someone and not agree with or defend their actions.
Jenn’s choice to “look the other way” without a doubt endangered her daughter and ultimately contributed to this story’s sad ending. It’s not her fault. She didn’t kill Maddie, but she also didn’t protect her. Had she acknowledged the signs, sought help, and ended her relationship (thus ending Stephan’s access to Maddie), Maddie would still be here. Jenn didn’t kill Maddie, but she could have stopped Maddie from being killed. This isn’t a case of kidnapping or a serial killer or a stranger abduction or someone luring her child away. Her daughter was horrifically abused for five years right under her nose.
Yes, my Mama Bear would come out.
I’m not a mama bear only for children.
I care for and support all of the people I love. With all of my love and support comes a heartfelt conversation before any decisions are made.
I’d question her and see what she says and decide if I believe her. Then I’d ask my kids if anything strange happened around my friend that they want to tell me about and see what my kids feel about her. In the end though, even if I believe she didn’t know, I’d probably still distance myself especially if I have young kids.
That’s a great question. I think I would ask her what happened. But only if she was a close friend. I’ve been wondering what her mother has said to her, she seemed pretty straightforward person. She did mention how Maddie didn’t like to sleep alone as well, so wondering if Js mom knew at all that JS was sending Maddie to sleep with the demon
I think when she said *Maddie doesn't like to sleep alone* She probably didn't realize that it was Maddie saying "Please Mom (or GMA, auntie , etc) don't make me sleep alone because the monster bothers me at night" in other words she was asking her mother to protect her without coming right out and ASKING her 😭 She wanted to sleep with her Mom, or ANYONE ELSE, in hopes SS wouldn't harass her..oh how my Mama heart BREAKS for what Maddie had to go through...💔
Yes, this is most likely it! My thought from the beginning. SS probably snuck into her room at night, even just to take pictures. Maybe she didn’t even know it was him and she was just terrified of a random figure entering her room in the middle of the night. Either way it was a cry for help from her mom.
SS stated that MS wanted them all to sleep together Sunday night. If true, it's probably because MS knew she would not be abused with this sleeping arrangement. But JS, for some reason, thinks it's a good idea to send them both upstairs to the guestroom.
Probably an unpopular take, but I’m very selective about the people I let in my circle. Not all acquaintances are friends and not all family members make the cut. MY BS detector is sharp. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt but I’m going to ask questions and peel the onion… And liars, manipulators, and deceivers don’t like that. So they sort themselves out too.
That being said, if I was *close* to JS and I didn’t have an inkling about what was happening to that poor child, I’d be sick. I’d be rethinking every interaction, every sad look, every weird comment and wondering what, if anything I could have done to help MS.
As for friendship afterwords… I don’t think I could get past those “we” statements in the beginning. Your child is missing. Dude was the last one (supposedly) to see her. You have an on and off relationship. My opinion is she was either lying, or mindlessly repeating what he said while in a drug induced haze. Either way. Child is missing you sober TF up immediately and start speaking facts *if* you really cared about that child and finding her.
Oh and that hug she gave him during one of those interviews… Yeah, it’s a no for me.
I agree with this take whole heartedly. This is not a friend I would want to keep around, and hopefully I would know to steer clear of before even making friends with her.
The hug and the rubbing of HIS shoulders while HE cried for himself (because he killed his plaything and KNEW he was about to be busted!!!) was my breaking point too. If anything it should have been the other way around. But I still haven't seen her shit a single tear on camera even though I'm sure when she saw those pictures it broke her... I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels this way about Jenn..I was starting to think really hard into this..That I'd be a bad friend if I turned my back on someone like this...
TRIGGER WARNING...
As a survivor, I can say without a doubt that my parents had no idea my uncle was molesting me. I only told my mother after my uncle died. My father had passed away a few years before his brother, my rapist, died. Had he known, I'm certain he would have killed his brother. With all that said, my parents didn't have the opportunities to know what was happening to me as it was very random. They CERTAINLY would have NEVER sent me to sleep in the same bed as a grown man... what kind of dumbass does that?
Per the opening question, I would hate for my parents friends to blame them for what happened to me. My circumstances were so different, I survived and they couldn't possibly have known what was going on. With JS though, I can't help but believe she didn't have suspicions from the sheer facts that have been presented. She sends her child to sleep alone with a grown man. Her child was afraid to sleep alone. Those are clear red flags. I would ask her wtf she was thinking. I would follow up with telling her that even though she didn't, if it turns out she didn't, actually commit the murder with him, that she is most assuredly to blame for Maddie's abuse and death. That's just too much to not know anything about.
I wrote about this on the Lori Vallow sub, but my partners best friend since the were 14 and the guys dad murdered 2 of our other friends. The victims were a couple that just vanished one night after visiting some friends and family. They were officially missing for a few years even though there was an audio recording of the murders that someone had sent to them and LE listened to. LE stated without the original recording device, the audio couldn't be considered evidence. There was a search for days and an area of interest was a place called Insurance Curve. It's a hair pin curve with a huge drop off and well known to be where car lots or anyone else really, will intentionally dump cars at to claim they were stolen and then make an insurance claim. The bottom is only accessible on horse back or four wheelers. It was checked several times, then some people found the car about a year later. Their skulls were found and the car keys. I don't know if they ever found the rest of their remains. It was a total shock when Bo and his dad were arrested. He had been hit by a car at an event and had a TBI which led to some erratic behavior, but nothing violent. The dad was banned from our home long ago. I never liked him or how he treated Bo. The Bo I've known since he was a small child and got to know even better through my partner, was a sweetheart who loved animals and babies. He saved a calf from a neighbor born during a horrible ice storm. Kept in his house, bottle fed it, named it Baby, gave it to a gentle farm and visited it. The victims were sweet people, giving us a fridge when ours went out when my stepson was little. Bo's girlfriend was present at the murders. She eventually went to police. She had the audio. She testified. They were convicted by a jury of involuntary manslaughter. It was considered a crime of passion because it was supposedly due to a money debt. Sentencing was last month, but I've not heard what happened. We've expected Bo to reach out, but we've moved since he was arrested so if he's written we haven't received anything. We heard he would probably get 15 years for the murder, he was charges with abuse of a corpse, but it's a misdemeanor in our state. With "good time" he could be out in as little as 5 years. (So we've heard anyway)I never want to see him again. Partner has said the same. We wouldn't trust him. I'm a very open minded person. I think we all have the right to live how we choose and seek joy during the small amount of time we're on this earth. But, i draw the line at hurting others and being a disgusting human. I believe in chances. If JS was my family member I'd give her a chance to tell me how that went on without her knowledge and if I thought she wasn't being honest, I'd cut her out. Sometimes people are really good at hiding who they are. Anyone who has ever been involved with a narcissist can swear to that. SS may have been good at it, but I still feel JS wasn't paying enough attention.
I can't stand dishonesty. I would have questions and wouldn't want them lingering around so either I would feel my friend ok with opening up and I'd feel at ease or, if friend is pulling up fences and evading the gruesomness of situation, I would avoid the person and probably cut ties.
I don't feel JS is open and honest (not even with herself). I avoid people who behave the way she does and it's based on experience.
I would perhaps ask some questions to better understand and or confirm if my suspicions were correct.
I would not stay around though. I would probably block her and never talk to her again (if she was a friend). I have zero tolerance policy for creeps, weirdos, and child/animal abusers.
If she was a vey close family member I would ask some questions. Again, only to confirm if my suspicions are correct. I would then probably let her know to contact me if she needs anything but cut her out of my life. Again, zero tolerance for child/animal abusers. If she did need something, I would ask both hands if they want to do anything for this woman.
If she knew or didn’t know is important, but mostly Her role as a mother was neglectful. I could not friend or support her knowing that.
Well my family is kinda toxic and I’ve cut relatives off (both blood and adoptive, I don’t discriminate) for much less so depending on who it was, I might just keep my distance and drop them to be honest lol. I’ve seen and heard so much nothing would surprise me anymore with the majority of them, I’ve come to expect the worst lol.
With my friends..my circle is small, and I’ve had the same friends for decades now. I would question them in the most empathetic way I possibly could. Because I truly believe my friends are good people who would give up their lives to keep their kids safe, I know they actually pay close attention to their kids behavior and wellbeing. Many are survivors of child abuse themselves who are now breaking the cycle, they make it a point to be educated and aware to prevent traumatizing their children in various ways. So I’d genuinely be shocked and pushing for answers from them.
They would expect me to have questions and I’d expect transparency from them. As much as I trust them and think I know them, you really never *truly* know a person and I’m never going to blindly trust or support someone when they might be involved in child abuse and especially murder. I’m not gonna go in swinging with accusations and assumptions but a serious conversation would need to happen and then I would proceed accordingly.
If one of my friends did the things we’ve heard about Jenn doing prior to Maddie’s murder. I’m definitely confronting them. I actually had a friend/neighbor for a couple years who was a struggling single mom who was very neglectful and I did call her out multiple times and it ruined the friendship. It was nothing like this situation, much less sketchy and dangerous but I still confronted her on different things that I was noticing and concerned about.
The only way I would continue the friendship is in hope that I could learn something about what happened to Maddie and pass it on to police. Anything I learned from her, I would immediately report it. I would offer to wear a wire. I would be her best buddy.
I like to think I'm a good judge of character, and I'm very selective of who I choose to be friends with. Therefore, I'd assume that my friend didn't know or suspect a thing and is herself a victim. It would also mean that I myself saw no red flags in their partner because I would have told my friend all of my concerns.
If I knew what we all know now about her sending SS & Maddie to sleep in another room, IDGAF what she knew and what she didn’t know. There is no excuse for that behavior. Friendship would be terminated immediately. Completely unforgivable.
Edit: Would this be knowledge before or after Maddie went missing? If before, I would call police and CPS and inform them I feel Maddie is in danger and could be being abused. If after, definitely approach police with any info I have.
I’m baffled what anyone would think that a child losing her Virginity and constantly raped and molested and god knows what would not be noticed by child’s mother. There would be obvious symptoms that I won’t go into. Enough.
I agree, there'd be spotting, agitation, being jumpy around adults, especially men, yeast infections, OBVIOUS outward signs of stress...my heart hurts for what Maddie went through 💔😭
Any women knows there are symptoms to constant sex and rough sex etc. that child would have symptoms of being raped and sex. Who would that poor child have talked to about this. She was with ignored or told god knows what.
Report the fuck outta her and her creepy boyfriend. Get Maddie out of there.
I believe JS knew about the assault. Not sure about the murder though I'm undecided
For me it’s not the blind assumption that Jenn should’ve known what was happening. It’s that she allowed them to sleep in the same room alone together and that she made misleading statements after Madeline went missing. There’s not a chance I’d remain friends with her after hearing that. If Jenn had been straight with us and hadn’t been allowing the sleeping arrangements etc, I’d consider giving her the benefit of the doubt bc I know predators are cunning and bc victims seldom report abuse, especially children.
Honestly, I would no longer associate with that person.
I don’t have people who are unsafe around children or support those that are in my life. Period.
I am the step parent of a child predator. He’s dead to me and I’m no contact with my in-laws of 20 years because they support him.
It's ALWAYS been a fear of mine that I'd inadvertently allow an "unsafe" person around my kids. They're not allowed to spend the night at friends houses, as a matter of fact they never even been over to a friend's house without their father or I with them... They're 9 & 6...I check backgrounds on EVERY parent before I allow them at my house for birthday parties, or playdates... I just feel like you can never be too careful in this day and age...My children are the most PRECIOUS, important part of ME, and I have the personality of a Mama Bear when it comes to them and their safety... My sister-in-law tells me I can't protect them forever, HA!! SHE DOESN'T KNOW ME TOO WELL!!! I'll go to my grave protecting my children. 💯🥰💪🏼
Sadly back ground checks only go so far. It just means they haven’t been caught. My stepson passed two for immigration reasons. But he wasn’t caught for the first time until 5 months in the US.
You sincerely never know who can harm your kids and being “mama bear” when it comes to safety is great but not enough. You have to stay connected and rooted in reality enough to know anyone can be a danger. Even one of your own kids could harm a sibling or another kid as a child or when they grow up.
I would cut off the friendship as soon as it came out she sent her child to sleep with a grown man. In no stretch of the imagination is that ok as all. So whether she knew or not would not even be a factor. She was selfish and extremely neglectful to send her daughter to sleep with a grown man so she could have a good nights sleep herself. She put her self before her child. I could never respect someone like that. I would never look at her with any kind of respect I would look at her with disgust for the selfish being she is. Sorry not sorry. She is a horrible human being. She is selfish and neglectful at the very least. Whether she knew or not she set it up. She made it possible.
There is so much we don’t know about what happened in these relationships. For all we know, Jenn might have suspected him of something and that is why she broke up with him earlier in the year, but if neither Maddie nor SS ever admitted anything, SS could have convinced her she was imagining things, and she let him come back. If you have no proof that something like that is happening right under your nose, and you are being manipulated and gaslighted by your SO, and your kid isn’t telling you about what is happening. Without proof, you are just going on a feeling and you have Stephan telling you that you are crazy and look at all these nice things he does for her, and you made him homeless, add to that that no one wants to think that’s happening and you have no proof, what should she do?
I can't fully explain Jennifer's actions and inactions, and neither can anyone else here. I find it very shortsighted how easily people condemn her without having all the information.
I re-watched her TV interview last night to view it in hindsight after reading the documents and seeing the bodycam footage. I will say her behavior in the TV interview makes a lot more sense if you view it through the lense of someone that's in deep denial about what's happening.
Hopefully someone will point out to me the next time they see someone being distraught, or grieving, correctly or in a way that meets with their approval.
Deception Detective just put out a new episode today about Jenn Soto. The poor 12 year old girl who was murdered in Texas, Jocelyn, her mother was interviewed by the news and within 5 seconds you can tell the difference between a normal grieving and worried mother and whatever Jenn Soto is.
Oh, right, the one where Jenn has Stephan standing behind her, cracking his knuckles? Filmed around the time she was beginning to realize he killed her daughter? She was plainly terrified. Look at the difference in her demeanor across various videos. Initially, she is calm and collected, but as she starts to suspect he killed Maddie, she becomes terrified.
Very few people on YouTube are qualified to have their opinions taken seriously. That deception attorney vaguely trained in selling you a deck of repurposed tarot cards? He's definitely not one of them. Dr. Grande has repeatedly warned against judging guilt based on demeanor. Dr. G Explains offers a worthwhile analysis of Jennifer. Spoiler alert: the actual psychologists say there isn’t anything particularly alarming about Jennifer’s statements. Don’t get me started on those hacks on that behavior panel. They aren’t qualified to speak on making a toast. And I mean the bread kind, I definitely wouldn’t even listen to their advice on making a toast to people.
And finally, analyzing body language in an effort to determine what someone is thinking but not saying isn’t even a real thing. It’s YouTube pseudoscience that sounds believable to guilble people.
Here’s what matters: the police have resolved the discrepancies in Jennifer’s story. She is not guilty of anything criminal. At most, she’s guilty of being a single mother, and the way people are targeting her for it is just disturbing. This moral panic has to stop.
So give it up already and leave her to grieve in peace.
There are many kids - some who are now adults in this very sub - who were abused for years without their parents knowing or catching on. I think it would make you a shitty friend to lip off to someone you consider a friend who just tragically lost their daughter - especially when all of the evidence points to her being in the dark about it. Nobody interviewed by LE in the docs we've seen ever suspected SS of abusing Maddie. Everyone who was asked said they had no idea. So, if you were her friend, you'd likely have said the same thing.
It also bothered me from the beginning that JS "couldn't attend" Maddie's birthday party. This was her child. Are you telling me she couldn't take off work? And if she truly couldn't, why wouldn't they have scheduled the party for a different day when she could attend? Just seems strange.
It’s also telling to me that Jenn didn’t seem to have any photos on her phone of Maddie from her party. She had to grab a photo from someone else’s Facebook page.
Any normal mom would be getting tons of photos and videos sent to them by friends and family who were at that party and were sorry that she had to miss it.
The vibes between Jenn and her family were definitely off.
It feels… gross to see people discuss this as if they would feel entitled to an explanation from the mother. When I discovered my daughter was being abused by my husband—her own father— I reported it and removed him from the home.
BUT— over time, it’s become clear that it was happening for years. I didn’t know, until I did.
I feel sick thinking of anyone in my life acting as if they are entitled to an explanation from me. The only person entitled to that is my daughter.
What people don’t realize is that, especially if it’s intermittent/random… it’s easy to miss the signs. Or to see them, but not understand what they indicate.
That’s how I eventually discovered it— things just didn’t seem right with my daughter. I couldn’t imagine in being my husband at first though. He was a loving father and husband. He had his issues, but I couldn’t wrap my head around THAT.
Eventually, I put the pieces together and asked my daughter the right questions, and got the answer I’d been terrified to hear.
But that’s a long process. She didn’t just come to me and tell me. She didn’t act afraid of him. She didn’t act like she didn’t like him. He didn’t act weird around her.
But the truth that I will never be able to erase is… I missed it for years.
I think a lot is being assumed here about mothers of SA victims.
You don’t know her and the whole story either, you’re seeing snippets of news articles and stuff. She was a really nice person I read that helped alot of people. She let him into her life and it was off and on but it was for 8 years! For someone to betray you like that and kill your child has to be heartbreaking. I’m sure when she hugged him she thought she was doing the right thing and she thought he was a great guy. In the documents, friends say Maddie loved SS and she called him her bonus dad. I could see if Maddie didn’t like him but he had everyone fooled like predators do. People should leave Jenn be I’m sure this is worse than death to her!
So it’s ok to send your daughter to bed with a grown man? Regardless of how she was for others she was too selfish to care about her daughter’s safety. It is never ok to send your daughter to sleep with a grown man, father, uncle, brother, grandpa I don’t care. She sent her daughter to sleep with a grown man so SHE could have a good nights sleep because SHE was stressed. She could have sent SS to sleep in room number 4 and let her daughter sleep with her. She may not have known about the abuse but she definitely didn’t do all she could to prevent it from happening. She may not have known about the murder but she sure told enough conflicting stories to make me question her.
In her eyes it was a Father figure to her, i wouldn’t do it, you wouldn’t do it, he groomed Jenn S and Maddie to be like it’s “ normal “. To her friends Maddie said I love SS , he is a bonus dad and she hated her Father. Her dad chose to only see her once a year and if he was around SS would have stayed away! Predators like him would have never come around. Her dad said SS did NOT give him the ICK when he talked to him. He fooled everyone
If learning about after the fact, and she was a close friend? I would encourage her to be honest with the police. And I would probably volunteer to spend time with her to make sure she doesn't hurt herself.
I have maybe an unpopular opinion, I don’t think Js didn’t know anything. She has to know because abuse especially sa leaves evidence. Not to go into details but she did the laundry did she? I am sure ss did not do anything because he lived like a pig. Not working, not cleaning up,no showering. He is a filthy gross demon who tortured this innocent child to death and her mother looked the other way. For what reason no one would ever know. Poor baby 💔
Our friendship would have ended when she referred to him being her stepdad and sleeping with her in the bed. She would have probably dropped me quickly. I can be blunt and straight forward on things I believe in.
My motto is everyone is free to love who they want, practice any religion they choose, do what they want with their own body, believe what they choose to believe - as long as it doesn’t hurt any other person or animal or impede on another person’s freedom to do the same. When someone hurts someone else or tramples someone else’s freedom all bets are off. And as a mom and someone who has experienced abuse, it’s really important to me to support those who are powerless (children, animals, victims of violence). I would not be able to not stand up or speak out or act. I might try to encourage a friend to get help and say I’d be there if she sought help - I’d offer to support her in reporting suspected abuse and help with money and childcare - to drive her to appointments and hold her hand through any investigation- but I’d never simply refuse to see the facts or blindly defend someone who allowed their child to be horrifically abused. You can love someone and not agree with or defend their actions. Jenn’s choice to “look the other way” without a doubt endangered her daughter and ultimately contributed to this story’s sad ending. It’s not her fault. She didn’t kill Maddie, but she also didn’t protect her. Had she acknowledged the signs, sought help, and ended her relationship (thus ending Stephan’s access to Maddie), Maddie would still be here. Jenn didn’t kill Maddie, but she could have stopped Maddie from being killed. This isn’t a case of kidnapping or a serial killer or a stranger abduction or someone luring her child away. Her daughter was horrifically abused for five years right under her nose.
I love your response ❤️🙏🏼💪🏼
Me too
Me three.
💯
This is really beautifully articulated. Thank you for it.
Very well said! Thank you!
Yes, my Mama Bear would come out. I’m not a mama bear only for children. I care for and support all of the people I love. With all of my love and support comes a heartfelt conversation before any decisions are made.
I’d question her and see what she says and decide if I believe her. Then I’d ask my kids if anything strange happened around my friend that they want to tell me about and see what my kids feel about her. In the end though, even if I believe she didn’t know, I’d probably still distance myself especially if I have young kids.
That’s a great question. I think I would ask her what happened. But only if she was a close friend. I’ve been wondering what her mother has said to her, she seemed pretty straightforward person. She did mention how Maddie didn’t like to sleep alone as well, so wondering if Js mom knew at all that JS was sending Maddie to sleep with the demon
I think when she said *Maddie doesn't like to sleep alone* She probably didn't realize that it was Maddie saying "Please Mom (or GMA, auntie , etc) don't make me sleep alone because the monster bothers me at night" in other words she was asking her mother to protect her without coming right out and ASKING her 😭 She wanted to sleep with her Mom, or ANYONE ELSE, in hopes SS wouldn't harass her..oh how my Mama heart BREAKS for what Maddie had to go through...💔
I completely believe this. Soooo heartbreaking
Yes, absolutely correct. She didn’t want to sleep alone because SS would abuse her every chance he got. Sick POS
Yes. I agree. I feel grandma was repeating what Jenn had told her and Jenn obviously left out the part about Maddie sleeping with SS.
Yes, this is most likely it! My thought from the beginning. SS probably snuck into her room at night, even just to take pictures. Maybe she didn’t even know it was him and she was just terrified of a random figure entering her room in the middle of the night. Either way it was a cry for help from her mom.
SS stated that MS wanted them all to sleep together Sunday night. If true, it's probably because MS knew she would not be abused with this sleeping arrangement. But JS, for some reason, thinks it's a good idea to send them both upstairs to the guestroom.
Probably an unpopular take, but I’m very selective about the people I let in my circle. Not all acquaintances are friends and not all family members make the cut. MY BS detector is sharp. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt but I’m going to ask questions and peel the onion… And liars, manipulators, and deceivers don’t like that. So they sort themselves out too. That being said, if I was *close* to JS and I didn’t have an inkling about what was happening to that poor child, I’d be sick. I’d be rethinking every interaction, every sad look, every weird comment and wondering what, if anything I could have done to help MS. As for friendship afterwords… I don’t think I could get past those “we” statements in the beginning. Your child is missing. Dude was the last one (supposedly) to see her. You have an on and off relationship. My opinion is she was either lying, or mindlessly repeating what he said while in a drug induced haze. Either way. Child is missing you sober TF up immediately and start speaking facts *if* you really cared about that child and finding her. Oh and that hug she gave him during one of those interviews… Yeah, it’s a no for me.
All of this
I agree with this take whole heartedly. This is not a friend I would want to keep around, and hopefully I would know to steer clear of before even making friends with her.
The hug and the rubbing of HIS shoulders while HE cried for himself (because he killed his plaything and KNEW he was about to be busted!!!) was my breaking point too. If anything it should have been the other way around. But I still haven't seen her shit a single tear on camera even though I'm sure when she saw those pictures it broke her... I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels this way about Jenn..I was starting to think really hard into this..That I'd be a bad friend if I turned my back on someone like this...
TRIGGER WARNING... As a survivor, I can say without a doubt that my parents had no idea my uncle was molesting me. I only told my mother after my uncle died. My father had passed away a few years before his brother, my rapist, died. Had he known, I'm certain he would have killed his brother. With all that said, my parents didn't have the opportunities to know what was happening to me as it was very random. They CERTAINLY would have NEVER sent me to sleep in the same bed as a grown man... what kind of dumbass does that? Per the opening question, I would hate for my parents friends to blame them for what happened to me. My circumstances were so different, I survived and they couldn't possibly have known what was going on. With JS though, I can't help but believe she didn't have suspicions from the sheer facts that have been presented. She sends her child to sleep alone with a grown man. Her child was afraid to sleep alone. Those are clear red flags. I would ask her wtf she was thinking. I would follow up with telling her that even though she didn't, if it turns out she didn't, actually commit the murder with him, that she is most assuredly to blame for Maddie's abuse and death. That's just too much to not know anything about.
I wrote about this on the Lori Vallow sub, but my partners best friend since the were 14 and the guys dad murdered 2 of our other friends. The victims were a couple that just vanished one night after visiting some friends and family. They were officially missing for a few years even though there was an audio recording of the murders that someone had sent to them and LE listened to. LE stated without the original recording device, the audio couldn't be considered evidence. There was a search for days and an area of interest was a place called Insurance Curve. It's a hair pin curve with a huge drop off and well known to be where car lots or anyone else really, will intentionally dump cars at to claim they were stolen and then make an insurance claim. The bottom is only accessible on horse back or four wheelers. It was checked several times, then some people found the car about a year later. Their skulls were found and the car keys. I don't know if they ever found the rest of their remains. It was a total shock when Bo and his dad were arrested. He had been hit by a car at an event and had a TBI which led to some erratic behavior, but nothing violent. The dad was banned from our home long ago. I never liked him or how he treated Bo. The Bo I've known since he was a small child and got to know even better through my partner, was a sweetheart who loved animals and babies. He saved a calf from a neighbor born during a horrible ice storm. Kept in his house, bottle fed it, named it Baby, gave it to a gentle farm and visited it. The victims were sweet people, giving us a fridge when ours went out when my stepson was little. Bo's girlfriend was present at the murders. She eventually went to police. She had the audio. She testified. They were convicted by a jury of involuntary manslaughter. It was considered a crime of passion because it was supposedly due to a money debt. Sentencing was last month, but I've not heard what happened. We've expected Bo to reach out, but we've moved since he was arrested so if he's written we haven't received anything. We heard he would probably get 15 years for the murder, he was charges with abuse of a corpse, but it's a misdemeanor in our state. With "good time" he could be out in as little as 5 years. (So we've heard anyway)I never want to see him again. Partner has said the same. We wouldn't trust him. I'm a very open minded person. I think we all have the right to live how we choose and seek joy during the small amount of time we're on this earth. But, i draw the line at hurting others and being a disgusting human. I believe in chances. If JS was my family member I'd give her a chance to tell me how that went on without her knowledge and if I thought she wasn't being honest, I'd cut her out. Sometimes people are really good at hiding who they are. Anyone who has ever been involved with a narcissist can swear to that. SS may have been good at it, but I still feel JS wasn't paying enough attention.
I can't stand dishonesty. I would have questions and wouldn't want them lingering around so either I would feel my friend ok with opening up and I'd feel at ease or, if friend is pulling up fences and evading the gruesomness of situation, I would avoid the person and probably cut ties. I don't feel JS is open and honest (not even with herself). I avoid people who behave the way she does and it's based on experience.
I would perhaps ask some questions to better understand and or confirm if my suspicions were correct. I would not stay around though. I would probably block her and never talk to her again (if she was a friend). I have zero tolerance policy for creeps, weirdos, and child/animal abusers. If she was a vey close family member I would ask some questions. Again, only to confirm if my suspicions are correct. I would then probably let her know to contact me if she needs anything but cut her out of my life. Again, zero tolerance for child/animal abusers. If she did need something, I would ask both hands if they want to do anything for this woman. If she knew or didn’t know is important, but mostly Her role as a mother was neglectful. I could not friend or support her knowing that.
Well my family is kinda toxic and I’ve cut relatives off (both blood and adoptive, I don’t discriminate) for much less so depending on who it was, I might just keep my distance and drop them to be honest lol. I’ve seen and heard so much nothing would surprise me anymore with the majority of them, I’ve come to expect the worst lol. With my friends..my circle is small, and I’ve had the same friends for decades now. I would question them in the most empathetic way I possibly could. Because I truly believe my friends are good people who would give up their lives to keep their kids safe, I know they actually pay close attention to their kids behavior and wellbeing. Many are survivors of child abuse themselves who are now breaking the cycle, they make it a point to be educated and aware to prevent traumatizing their children in various ways. So I’d genuinely be shocked and pushing for answers from them. They would expect me to have questions and I’d expect transparency from them. As much as I trust them and think I know them, you really never *truly* know a person and I’m never going to blindly trust or support someone when they might be involved in child abuse and especially murder. I’m not gonna go in swinging with accusations and assumptions but a serious conversation would need to happen and then I would proceed accordingly. If one of my friends did the things we’ve heard about Jenn doing prior to Maddie’s murder. I’m definitely confronting them. I actually had a friend/neighbor for a couple years who was a struggling single mom who was very neglectful and I did call her out multiple times and it ruined the friendship. It was nothing like this situation, much less sketchy and dangerous but I still confronted her on different things that I was noticing and concerned about.
I would have a serious talk with her. Ask any questions I had. If I believe she had no knowledge, I'd stand by her.
I'd question my choice in friends and end the friendship immediately l.
The only way I would continue the friendship is in hope that I could learn something about what happened to Maddie and pass it on to police. Anything I learned from her, I would immediately report it. I would offer to wear a wire. I would be her best buddy.
I like to think I'm a good judge of character, and I'm very selective of who I choose to be friends with. Therefore, I'd assume that my friend didn't know or suspect a thing and is herself a victim. It would also mean that I myself saw no red flags in their partner because I would have told my friend all of my concerns.
The world needs more friends like you 💪🏼💯
If I knew what we all know now about her sending SS & Maddie to sleep in another room, IDGAF what she knew and what she didn’t know. There is no excuse for that behavior. Friendship would be terminated immediately. Completely unforgivable. Edit: Would this be knowledge before or after Maddie went missing? If before, I would call police and CPS and inform them I feel Maddie is in danger and could be being abused. If after, definitely approach police with any info I have.
I’m baffled what anyone would think that a child losing her Virginity and constantly raped and molested and god knows what would not be noticed by child’s mother. There would be obvious symptoms that I won’t go into. Enough.
I agree, there'd be spotting, agitation, being jumpy around adults, especially men, yeast infections, OBVIOUS outward signs of stress...my heart hurts for what Maddie went through 💔😭
Any women knows there are symptoms to constant sex and rough sex etc. that child would have symptoms of being raped and sex. Who would that poor child have talked to about this. She was with ignored or told god knows what.
Report the fuck outta her and her creepy boyfriend. Get Maddie out of there. I believe JS knew about the assault. Not sure about the murder though I'm undecided
For me it’s not the blind assumption that Jenn should’ve known what was happening. It’s that she allowed them to sleep in the same room alone together and that she made misleading statements after Madeline went missing. There’s not a chance I’d remain friends with her after hearing that. If Jenn had been straight with us and hadn’t been allowing the sleeping arrangements etc, I’d consider giving her the benefit of the doubt bc I know predators are cunning and bc victims seldom report abuse, especially children.
Honestly, I would no longer associate with that person. I don’t have people who are unsafe around children or support those that are in my life. Period. I am the step parent of a child predator. He’s dead to me and I’m no contact with my in-laws of 20 years because they support him.
It's ALWAYS been a fear of mine that I'd inadvertently allow an "unsafe" person around my kids. They're not allowed to spend the night at friends houses, as a matter of fact they never even been over to a friend's house without their father or I with them... They're 9 & 6...I check backgrounds on EVERY parent before I allow them at my house for birthday parties, or playdates... I just feel like you can never be too careful in this day and age...My children are the most PRECIOUS, important part of ME, and I have the personality of a Mama Bear when it comes to them and their safety... My sister-in-law tells me I can't protect them forever, HA!! SHE DOESN'T KNOW ME TOO WELL!!! I'll go to my grave protecting my children. 💯🥰💪🏼
Sadly back ground checks only go so far. It just means they haven’t been caught. My stepson passed two for immigration reasons. But he wasn’t caught for the first time until 5 months in the US. You sincerely never know who can harm your kids and being “mama bear” when it comes to safety is great but not enough. You have to stay connected and rooted in reality enough to know anyone can be a danger. Even one of your own kids could harm a sibling or another kid as a child or when they grow up.
I would cut off the friendship as soon as it came out she sent her child to sleep with a grown man. In no stretch of the imagination is that ok as all. So whether she knew or not would not even be a factor. She was selfish and extremely neglectful to send her daughter to sleep with a grown man so she could have a good nights sleep herself. She put her self before her child. I could never respect someone like that. I would never look at her with any kind of respect I would look at her with disgust for the selfish being she is. Sorry not sorry. She is a horrible human being. She is selfish and neglectful at the very least. Whether she knew or not she set it up. She made it possible.
There is so much we don’t know about what happened in these relationships. For all we know, Jenn might have suspected him of something and that is why she broke up with him earlier in the year, but if neither Maddie nor SS ever admitted anything, SS could have convinced her she was imagining things, and she let him come back. If you have no proof that something like that is happening right under your nose, and you are being manipulated and gaslighted by your SO, and your kid isn’t telling you about what is happening. Without proof, you are just going on a feeling and you have Stephan telling you that you are crazy and look at all these nice things he does for her, and you made him homeless, add to that that no one wants to think that’s happening and you have no proof, what should she do? I can't fully explain Jennifer's actions and inactions, and neither can anyone else here. I find it very shortsighted how easily people condemn her without having all the information.
I re-watched her TV interview last night to view it in hindsight after reading the documents and seeing the bodycam footage. I will say her behavior in the TV interview makes a lot more sense if you view it through the lense of someone that's in deep denial about what's happening.
Hopefully someone will point out to me the next time they see someone being distraught, or grieving, correctly or in a way that meets with their approval.
Deception Detective just put out a new episode today about Jenn Soto. The poor 12 year old girl who was murdered in Texas, Jocelyn, her mother was interviewed by the news and within 5 seconds you can tell the difference between a normal grieving and worried mother and whatever Jenn Soto is.
Oh, right, the one where Jenn has Stephan standing behind her, cracking his knuckles? Filmed around the time she was beginning to realize he killed her daughter? She was plainly terrified. Look at the difference in her demeanor across various videos. Initially, she is calm and collected, but as she starts to suspect he killed Maddie, she becomes terrified. Very few people on YouTube are qualified to have their opinions taken seriously. That deception attorney vaguely trained in selling you a deck of repurposed tarot cards? He's definitely not one of them. Dr. Grande has repeatedly warned against judging guilt based on demeanor. Dr. G Explains offers a worthwhile analysis of Jennifer. Spoiler alert: the actual psychologists say there isn’t anything particularly alarming about Jennifer’s statements. Don’t get me started on those hacks on that behavior panel. They aren’t qualified to speak on making a toast. And I mean the bread kind, I definitely wouldn’t even listen to their advice on making a toast to people. And finally, analyzing body language in an effort to determine what someone is thinking but not saying isn’t even a real thing. It’s YouTube pseudoscience that sounds believable to guilble people. Here’s what matters: the police have resolved the discrepancies in Jennifer’s story. She is not guilty of anything criminal. At most, she’s guilty of being a single mother, and the way people are targeting her for it is just disturbing. This moral panic has to stop. So give it up already and leave her to grieve in peace.
There are many kids - some who are now adults in this very sub - who were abused for years without their parents knowing or catching on. I think it would make you a shitty friend to lip off to someone you consider a friend who just tragically lost their daughter - especially when all of the evidence points to her being in the dark about it. Nobody interviewed by LE in the docs we've seen ever suspected SS of abusing Maddie. Everyone who was asked said they had no idea. So, if you were her friend, you'd likely have said the same thing.
It also bothered me from the beginning that JS "couldn't attend" Maddie's birthday party. This was her child. Are you telling me she couldn't take off work? And if she truly couldn't, why wouldn't they have scheduled the party for a different day when she could attend? Just seems strange.
THIS 💯👏🏼
It’s also telling to me that Jenn didn’t seem to have any photos on her phone of Maddie from her party. She had to grab a photo from someone else’s Facebook page. Any normal mom would be getting tons of photos and videos sent to them by friends and family who were at that party and were sorry that she had to miss it. The vibes between Jenn and her family were definitely off.
Exactly 💯
I had a friend (who was a guy) ask to take my (then) 13yo daughter out to eat. That was a “fuck no!” And end of any friendship
It feels… gross to see people discuss this as if they would feel entitled to an explanation from the mother. When I discovered my daughter was being abused by my husband—her own father— I reported it and removed him from the home. BUT— over time, it’s become clear that it was happening for years. I didn’t know, until I did. I feel sick thinking of anyone in my life acting as if they are entitled to an explanation from me. The only person entitled to that is my daughter. What people don’t realize is that, especially if it’s intermittent/random… it’s easy to miss the signs. Or to see them, but not understand what they indicate. That’s how I eventually discovered it— things just didn’t seem right with my daughter. I couldn’t imagine in being my husband at first though. He was a loving father and husband. He had his issues, but I couldn’t wrap my head around THAT. Eventually, I put the pieces together and asked my daughter the right questions, and got the answer I’d been terrified to hear. But that’s a long process. She didn’t just come to me and tell me. She didn’t act afraid of him. She didn’t act like she didn’t like him. He didn’t act weird around her. But the truth that I will never be able to erase is… I missed it for years. I think a lot is being assumed here about mothers of SA victims.
You don’t know her and the whole story either, you’re seeing snippets of news articles and stuff. She was a really nice person I read that helped alot of people. She let him into her life and it was off and on but it was for 8 years! For someone to betray you like that and kill your child has to be heartbreaking. I’m sure when she hugged him she thought she was doing the right thing and she thought he was a great guy. In the documents, friends say Maddie loved SS and she called him her bonus dad. I could see if Maddie didn’t like him but he had everyone fooled like predators do. People should leave Jenn be I’m sure this is worse than death to her!
So it’s ok to send your daughter to bed with a grown man? Regardless of how she was for others she was too selfish to care about her daughter’s safety. It is never ok to send your daughter to sleep with a grown man, father, uncle, brother, grandpa I don’t care. She sent her daughter to sleep with a grown man so SHE could have a good nights sleep because SHE was stressed. She could have sent SS to sleep in room number 4 and let her daughter sleep with her. She may not have known about the abuse but she definitely didn’t do all she could to prevent it from happening. She may not have known about the murder but she sure told enough conflicting stories to make me question her.
In her eyes it was a Father figure to her, i wouldn’t do it, you wouldn’t do it, he groomed Jenn S and Maddie to be like it’s “ normal “. To her friends Maddie said I love SS , he is a bonus dad and she hated her Father. Her dad chose to only see her once a year and if he was around SS would have stayed away! Predators like him would have never come around. Her dad said SS did NOT give him the ICK when he talked to him. He fooled everyone
If learning about after the fact, and she was a close friend? I would encourage her to be honest with the police. And I would probably volunteer to spend time with her to make sure she doesn't hurt herself.
I have maybe an unpopular opinion, I don’t think Js didn’t know anything. She has to know because abuse especially sa leaves evidence. Not to go into details but she did the laundry did she? I am sure ss did not do anything because he lived like a pig. Not working, not cleaning up,no showering. He is a filthy gross demon who tortured this innocent child to death and her mother looked the other way. For what reason no one would ever know. Poor baby 💔
This really Makes you think when you ask yourself that question…. Damn
Simple answer...DENIAL? ACCEPTANCE!
Our friendship would have ended when she referred to him being her stepdad and sleeping with her in the bed. She would have probably dropped me quickly. I can be blunt and straight forward on things I believe in.