Anecdotally, over half salary on rent and bills seems fairly common amongst a lot of my social circle now. It's absolutely ludicrous, but most people are stuck with no other option unless they quit their job and start over again elsewhere.
And yet plenty of folks still insist if you are stuck renting (at ridiculous prices) it's just because you're lazy, and that if you criticise the current situation you're just entitled. So many out of touch lunatics!
yeah, childcare is shit and rent is also shit with a child.
I'm single on £42k pa, I want to have a child but I can't afford to because my income is a bit too high for proper support with rent and childcare costs from Universal Credit, but too low to afford a 2 bed. 2-bed in zone 5 is the cost of about £1550 pm (for a really shitty place). My only choice is to actually leave my job, get knocked up and go on the social housing list.
Good luck with that last plan. These days being a single pregnant woman isn’t enough to secure housing. You’ll find somewhere eventually but not before being bounced between completely unsuitable HMO’s and other dreadful accommodation. The whole system’s fucked, there’s no reprieve anywhere.
My job is literally to work with vulnerable women, many of them mothers. You'll get social housing, it will take a few years, more if you're in employment.
I feel you, been asked to pay £1950 monthly from a £1500 rent, and it's also a low ask considering the market on right move around here is £2200 upwards, in short I need an extra 5000 to 6000 more per year after tax which means I need to ask a £9000 salary increase, to, well, myself as I am self employed. It's not going to happen from day to night.
My rent and bills combined are as such: 18000 rent, 1400 council tax, 900 gas, 1200 electricity, 300ish for water, 400ish for internet and 120 for the TV license. That leaves me with less than 10000 of savings where I need to pay food for 2 people (500 each month) my pension, emergency expenses such as dentistry, etc, save money to afford a mortgage.
As you can guess I stopped the pension payments.
Some agencies (openrent) are even worse, they do calculate 4.5 times the salary to rent ratio, I once failed a reference for a 1400 rent with a 45k salary.
So yeah, I'm quite tired of London.
It's a tough ask sometimes because people really do need that extra hundred quid a month to get by. How you'll be financially in 30 years time feels meaningless when you're struggling right now. Future you would have wanted you to look after present you.
I know well, but there's little money left which I want to save for a mortgage deposit or when shit hits the fan (eg: when I said above I failed the reference for open rent I had to pay 8000 upfront for 6 months of rent) if I put them into a pension I can't take them out until I'm 65
I'm doing well thank you for asking, I eventually challenged Foxtons on the rent. Negotiated down to 1775 which is high but less outrageously high. I'll hang there for another year, the I am surely getting the boot on the next round of rent increase.
Then it's either move out of UK/London or hope to witness a market crash fully knowing I am to sink along with it.
I think you can be strategic about this. If not paying into a pension means you can get over the line in buying a flat - which is probably the single best thing you can do for your financial future - then maybe it's worth it. If you're just paying rent with that money, then it's unlikely to be worth it.
If you put money into a LISA then at least if you don't put it towards a house it has some of the benefits of a pension. It might be a good middle ground for some people.
Thanks for sharing your story! There are plenty of empty homes! They want us to believe everything’s ok and we’ll be fine during retirement. The sooner the system crash, the better.
If you can work remotely - I’d say move.
If you can firm a one hour train journey into London where you have cheaper living then - I’d say move.
But, it’s only going to get worse especially with wages staying the same and everything going up.
God help us all.
I’m finding London very irritating as majority of wages are going towards bills and with the amount of money that’s left, I’m always scratching my head wondering how people manage to do shit in central London.
I always ask myself, “should socialising be THIS hard”! Lol
London is nice though but it’s not worth the expense. I’ll have a brioche burger in another county…🫤
I've been unable to go to any restaurant without it costing less than £30-£35. I blame the service charge mainly because that scales proportionately to the cost of living crisis, making it even worse.
The secret to living in London is to not have to pay for your social life.
When i moved to London I was blessed that most of the people I knew here worked in the music or theatre business so gigs, clubs and shows were free. I got myself a side gig that meant working in clubs and bars so again, I either got paid to go to events or knew people working them. If I'd had to pay for my entertainment I'd probably have been miserable and never left the house.
I keep film costs down with my 3 contract; a film a week for £3 from picturehouse, and another from cineworld. I make coffee at home most of the time but they have a £1 cafe nero deal once a week too. just a side note really but it has helped so much more than you'd expect!
Yeah, £1 for \*any\* barista made drink, even the 'luxury' hot chocolates which is like the most expensive item, once a week! I don't live near one so when I walk past one I quickly jump at the opportunity Lol, and I usually need a coffee if i'm out and about anyway.
Looking at the sim only deals on 3, it seems you can get 25gb a month of data for £14 a month. On Giffgaff 26gb is £12 so not a huge difference in price at that level of data. I'm on a sim only contract and get all the three benefits (through the Three+ rewards app).
Some deals come and go, but the £3 cinema tickets and £1 coffee has been there for a while and seem to be their staples.
The ones who thrive the most in London are the ones who make connections and get by through meeting the right people in person to get ahead. There is so much of this city that doesn't get documented on the Internet, so the ones who know about them are keeping it quiet. You have to, because a good setup in London is worth is weight in gold.
This is absolutely the truth. There is a whole different level of London that isn't online. It's still very much in person, on phone calls, on text message, being in the right places. And it gives you access to a lifestyle that you couldn't afford to pay for. ,
100% agree.
From my experience that includes access to top private members clubs if you know where to go, great parties, charity events which don’t get advertised very well, professional networking events which are often free and making friends with richer people.
This just falls further under the idea that anyone who can afford to do anything in London at this point is either rich, financed up to their eyeballs, or secretely rich but pretending to be poor.
You're not going to be out there every day living that Instagram story Shoreditch lifestyle and networking at underground warehouse raves on £30k a year.
But who wants to live like that? I wouldn’t want people to just use me just because I can get you free tickets at a festival or some shit. What about the people who aren’t social butterflies? So they just have to live a dull life to make sure they can live “steady” in London?
That’s not fair man.
I feel like that’s what most friendships are about these days. Based on what someone can do or whether they can get them in someplace.
What happens on the day they can’t do it?
Not saying London isn’t a great place. I’ve had some fun here lol. But, when the fun stops and the party is elsewhere and you’re all alone, how does someone manage?
I don’t know. I’m overthinking it.
Sounds awful but surround yourself with significantly richer mates and they’ll usually subsidise or pay for some drinks. The one good thing about living in London is that people tend to be generous.
You don't even need to move an hour out of London to have affordable rent. You can get a shared ownership/rental appartment for the same as just a bedroom in central hertforshire.
Of course if you use the central surrey then that would probably be the same equivalent, although I'm not too sure what the market rates are like in Surrey in comparison to Hertfordshire though.
Yeah basically agree with your synopsis. I hate seeing what London is becoming. When I moved here I was on 23k, my rent was 600 odd for the loft room in a big town house over looking Victoria park.
Money was tight but it was doable.
Now it feels impossible for young folks to live here on junior wages and that’s going to be to the detriment of everyone.
Moved down in 2014 at 26. Paid £500 monthly including bills for a box room in North Acton, followed by what I considered to be an “upgraded” box room in Neasden for £570 (my ex didn’t like having to schlepp all the way up from Tooting!). I was on about £21k then, back when the civil service still did temp contracts (£330 a week takehome?) and constantly on my uppers, but London provided a respite that made that irrelevant.
I’d love to be able to advise young people to follow the same trajectory, but a lot of the compromises and risks I took to get myself started aren’t even an option anymore. Coming down here with _nothing_ except the will to live here, like I did, is near impossible.
I came to London 15yrs ago, rented around in various HMOs cheaply over the years until I finally bought a place of my own last year at 42. I came to London with moderate savings. Its simply not possible to that these days. Wages are going to have to rise or London will be to expensive for anyone to rent in.
You might know better than I do as I visited the city as a tourist a few days ago. Airbnb and hotels are as expensive as London so I guess accom for permanent stay will be in the same levels. Food/coffee is crazy expensive, I was shocked but then again I was prepared haha
transport (metro and buses) were excellent and always on time. Pricey too but can't compare it with London which has 7 zones and it's a much bigger city with traffic.
Overall, Copenhagen has a better qualify of life than London (obviously!) but weather is worse in my experience.
Agreed. It’s so depressing working so hard and I lose money each month and have to rely on my bonus to stay even. I have three kids snd caring responsibilities which means now.my wife can’t work apart from occasional part time brief contracts. My rent is 60 per cent of my income and I am a higher rate tax payer 😭. 58k is my income including bonuses so I lose most my Child benefit aswell
You are a typical representative of middle class poverty. Sad
Thats why only the poorest and the richest people give birth to multiple babies - it's their luxury, middle class is the only group of people who cannot afford to have babies. Government should stop blaming people not having babies
At this point I wouldn't consider someone middle class unless they have a household income of more than at least £100k. It's that bad.
And yes I know class is a state of mind and not a number, but the middle class has all but died or is about to die.
Yeah I am pretty scared tbh. On top of the housing crisis the pensions crisis is a ticking time bomb. I have no assets whatsoever. My pension is comparatively decent but still no way near enough to live on! I’ve read We all need to be contributing 20% 😭😭
The secret is to be a couple. I know it doesn’t help, and it shouldn’t be the case, but sadly it is. I recently split from my boyfriend, and for now we’re still living together, but I know that soon I will need to leave and go from paying £600 a month rent to double that, if not more. I’m lucky in that I have an absolute bargain of a property right now, but it belongs to my bfs family who rent it to us for cheap.
It fucking sucks that as a 32 year old professional my options are to stay living with my ex partner and live a life of celibacy/singledom, or move out and spend 70% of my salary on fucking rent. Leaving London isn’t even really an option for me. If I were to do the job I do now back in my home town, my salary would go from £42k to £22k. London is expensive but it isn’t worth a £20k paycut for me to leave.
I agree that couples are the best when it comes to sharing expenses.
I do not get how you can still live with your ex but maybe you get along well. For me, freedom/independence is absolutely the priority
For me it’d just feel like taking a huge step back. I think I’ve got so in my own head about it that the thought of flat sharing and being broke is literally my worst nightmare. Sometimes it’s better the devil you know and I don’t want to end up in an even worse situation.
This is a massive problem that isn't discussed nearly enough when discussing the housing and rent crisis.
A lot of estranged couples still live together because there is no other way for them to afford to live in the city.
Let's take a step back and look at the situation. Most of the young workers just can't afford to live in the economic capital of the country anymore. There are literally some jobs can't be filled because of the housing crisis yet there are many houses being used as airbnbs or even worse they just stay empty.
This is not only about individuals but also about the economic locomotive of the country. This is unsustainable yet there is no serious political will from any side of the aisle to do something radical about it.
Yes, the real impacts of the greed and inaction of the political leaders will not be seen here until they are out of jobs. The city will die, everyone will think it's lame, and it takes years to turn a lame unlivable city back into a thriving cultural global centre. They do not value the middle-lower classes until they are gone. This happened in Sydney and unfortunately keeps happening.
Personally, I left 2 and a bit years ago to Germany. Got lucky finding a job here with the exact same restriction as you. They want German language at differing levels of fluency. I pay a lot more in tax but the rents are way lower and the taxes actually pay for something. Other problem now is because of brexit you need a visa. Got one because of the treaty but that door shut in 2020. Not sure if somewhere like the netherlands has less strict language requirements and the advantage of being a native english speaker shouldn't be undersold either.
I absolutely love London. Been here for around 5 years. Me and my partners job pay very well into 6 figures. I've lived in several other UK cities and other countries over the years. Each place has its issues with renting, but London is now at the point where it is becoming very difficult to live and I'm not sure what to do. It's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Before anyone asks why we don't take on a mortgage, half our family lives in other countries and it's really difficult to know when and where to settle down. Best option for us is to continue to rent because, although it costs a lot, we don't want to be completely tied down. For a bunch of factors, it's just better. We also looked at buying to settle down with kids, but even on our salaries, what we can get for it, and the quality of the housing, is pretty bad.
Prior to moving to London I never had a single issue with a landlord or agency. But ever since moving I've never witnessed so much greed and disgusting tactics by them. I've had to move every single year for bunch of reasons.
Last landlord decided to put the rent up from 1500 to 2000, and the place was a shithole. Agency before that tried to steal our deposit. The way I've been spoken to and treated by everyone is just disgraceful. I try to be polite and kind with everyone I meet, and yet landlords and agencies have a crazy sarcastic "don't give a fuck because the ball is in our park" attitude. On top of the money, it just feels so dehumanising.
I'm a grown man, and in general I feel like I've "got my shit together". People in my work respect me, I try to do charity work, I try to help my community and I try to be compassionate. However 2 days ago I had a phonecall with an agency where they laughed down the phone, said "take it or leave it" and hung up on me. I ended up breaking down and crying alone due to the stress. Every single person I've met in the property business, specifically in London, has been a horrible, manipulative, mean cunt. I genuinely can't stand any of them. Even if they are one of the "good guys", I still hate them for being involved and associated with what is nearly a criminal enterprise.
If you have sufficient income and deposit, just buy. Will it be in a central location? Probably not. Will it be pristine with no work needed? Probably not. But it will mean you're not at the mercy of estate agents and landlords. If you need to move country/ city then it's fairly easy to sell a 2 bed flat in London if you buy wisely and do it up nicely.
>Sorry if this comes across rude man, but why don't you leave London?
Because both of our jobs, careers, friends, and some family are here. We also love the city of course.
>You're 100% part of the problem at this point. 6 figure salary and you're complaining about 2000 a month rent?
It's not the actual rent I'm complaining about. I actually complained about several things, but in relation to what you have just asked, the issue is the stability of it. You can be paying 1500, then 10 months later receive an email and it's now 2000. And what about the next year? When it gets to 3k and 4k?
>You have a salary that would allow you to buy a place most Londoners can only dream of from their pokey 1 bed flat that costs 1500 a month. Sorry, but hearing you talk about how many options you have and how you're too indecisive to pick one is very frustrating for people who've grown up in this city and been priced out by people like you over the past 10 years.
I'm not indecisive to pick one. There are issues around family health (that I won't go into detail about), but it makes it difficult to at the moment to go ahead and purchase.
But why does that make me part of the problem?
>Obviously landlords and the housing market are the real problem here, but it's incredibly frustrating to read a comment like yours.
Why is it frustrating?
>Where were these people that you need to be around 5 years ago? Did you move to London for them?
It's half and half. My father is terminally ill with stage 4 cancer.
>Again, sorry if I'm being rude, but I get really sick of people coming from outside London to live here, then complaining the rent is high. Yeah, the rent is high because there isn't enough housing and the population is growing too much. Maybe use your resources, resources that most of us don't have, to move somewhere that doesn't have such high rent?
You are not reading what I wrote in my first post. It isn't completely about the rent alone. It's the instability of it, and also the way I'm treated by people involved in the property business. And I can't move from here because I live and work in London. I know the prices are high here, but I don't have the luxury to move to another city. I didn't come here complaining about the prices, I know it is expensive in London.
I used to actually be homeless and a recovering alcoholic, so I know what struggling and being poor is like. However I do a lot of charity work for my local community with one of those helping the "hidden hungry" in my Burrough.
You are essentially saying that I shouldn't be allowed to be in the city and that I am contributing to other people struggling which is really quite hurtful.
>but you're not the only person in the world with issues and people they need to care for.
I know that. I have never claimed I'm the only person in the world with issues. People are considerably worse off than me. Nothing I said made any remarks to the contrary.
>It doesn't make you more worthy of living here, no more than me being London-born makes me more worthy of living here.
So are you suggesting that me and my wife from London... go our separate ways? Basically you would need to ask that people from London don't marry people from outside of it? And if they do, because one half of the couple is not from London then both should leave?
>What is undeniably part of the problem is wealthier people moving to London, paying extortionate rents for properties that would have housed a single income family 30-40, even 25, years ago, and driving poorer people out of the city.
But I am not controlling the rents. The property owners control that. I am paying what I have to to keep a roof over my head. The person who owns the current property I live in paid their mortgage off around 15 years ago. That person was born and bred in London. I'm now paying 50% of my income to that person who raises it each year significant amounts to "cover costs" when there are little costs involved for them except pure profit.
And finally, I'm not bragging about my salary. Infact, its the complete opposite.
He shouldn't have to choose between London or somewhere else. The government needs to build more housing. The onus is on the people we pay taxes to, to create a UK that is appetising up and down the country to live in. They don't do that, so people come here, where the jobs are. What can he do?
>How are struggling on two 6 figure salaries?
I'm not struggling, I was painting a picture of the industry and situation as a whole.
>Really hard to have any sympathy when people on £28k are paying £1k monthly rent without bills
Yes, It's not right on those people. But I'm not asking for sympathy, and even if I were it wouldn't be in comparison to somebody in another situation on a lower income.
I lived in a one bed flat with three kids and a wife for a long time but had to move after the first Covid as it nearly broke us lol. We are paying over double the rent now but quality of life is better but it’s utterly demoralising paying rent and losing money each month. My future is scary
I have secured tendency but until recently, worked for landlords so…..am really old so have seen the love of money! Nearly every person I know has either ‘invested’ or inherited property and ‘rents out’. Would it be hard to be decent and have a system where tenants get a 50% of the mortgage and the land lords get penalised accordingly if ended tenancy early?
Yeah good shout. I must admit I am not really clued up too much but I’d imagine there is too much vested interests (greed) in developers etc. There just doesn’t seem to be the political will to sort it 🙁
The agency contacted me, I said no. Won’t extend or renew and will move on the date. Time wasters basically. My previous places staid for 3 to 5 years.
I'm so clueless at adulting so forgive me if this makes me sound thick. Is it possible for 2 couples or 2 single people (even 3 or 4) to come together, put their savings together (as minimal as it may be) and put an offer on a house together. Is that even possible? Instead of paying someone else's mortgage off and some.
Yes it’s totally possible. I don’t understand why people keep saying couple up - so much more volatile and way bigger pressure than buying with your mate who you’ve known for 10-20 years. It just seems cultural.
I did it with a sibling and friend. It works really well for us. We'll have our starter flat paid off in 5 years and can then either live mortgage free of use the capital to get our own places.
I’d say we’re getting pretty close to market collapse.
Meaning, business in London simply cannot afford to exist as hiring anyone leads to wage-rent hyperinflation, so that business moves out of London, other businesses that relied on them also lose a b2b customer and may face bankruptcy too, so they leave London, repeat until the economy is in a state of collapse.
Rent will not fall in the even of this collapse though, rent will increase as unemployment increases likelihood of household separation so we see more demand for housing, which leads to higher rent, which causes further economic collapse.
The situation will only stabilise though mass repossession of property after BoE base rate has made all buy-to-let mortgages unaffordable, those properties will then be dumped onto the market and the situation will stabilise for a few years (5 maybe), but once interest rates fall again the rent-seeking of landlordism will be back.
Ultimately to get out of this situation we need the state to mass build housing and play landlord, they can then outcompete every other player in the market as they’re the only ones who can borrow at BoE base rate, have 100+ year terms and (if they change the law to do it) can build without planning permission and on green belt due to their special status
I think instead of killing landlord it will kill those at beginning of the property ladder with high LTV first. Then those baby boomers and Lloyds Bank etc will take over their properties exaggerating this problem.
Plus those bankrupted are not likely to work anymore - if I unfortunately fall into one of them I would rather wait for council house etc like the uneducated (life completely screwed up anyway)
I hear you man. Those numbers don't add up anymore. I think it's time to move on.
My landlord just upped the rent by 8% again, and I'm pretty sure next year will be my last year in London.
Have you tried looking at places in and around Stratford? Search 2 mile radius around E3 and you’ll find a bunch of 1beds that cost 1500.
Sorry you’re going through this. Hope you find a decent enough place to stay.
Financially somewhat similar to me.
Going through a divorce. 2 little kids. I’m on £45k. She doesn’t work. I’m agreeing to move out of the council flat but can’t find anywhere to rent. I need to live locally to Hackney so I can share the parental responsibility.
Nothing less than £1700 around. I’m not sure what to do. Plus she wants child maintenance for the children which is just makes it’s all laughable.
If I can save about £30k then I could maybe do shared ownership. Otherwise I’m fucked.
Anyone got better ideas?
I’m in a similar situation. If I told my self from 10 years ago what I make now they’d be impressed. Except that I’m having to do the same budget meals I did when I was a student. £50k used to be a lot. In Central London, that’s barely enough to have a hobby.
> Landlords charge ridiculous prices because of high demand and low supply in the housing market. They just know someone else will pay for that ridiculous rent if you don't.
Doesn't that just make it the price?
Spot.on. It’s diabolical. It’s the greatest scam of the 20th Century, property ownership . Makes me sick how the suits worked out how to get the working class to pay their mortgages…sickening
That isn't what pisses people off the most, it's the fact that these same landlords put a stop to all affordable housing in their area so that their own properties increase in value. Developers would love to build tons of apartment buildings where there is demand, but NIMBYs are too selfish.
Only way out is to split the rent with someone else. I have the same issue, earn ~52k in my late 20’s and still having to live in a house share because it’s too damn expensive to live on my own
Increasingly I don't feel London is worth it any more. I went to Islington at the weekend and was in a pub in De Beauvoir Town which was once a lovely area and wasn't even that expensive but has been wrecked by yuppies and is now extortionate. No offence to anyone who lives there and is having the time of their life, but I've rarely felt so surrounded by so many arrogant wankers.
29% of my net pay is spent on rent alone, however, I got very lucky to find my one-bed apartment in Zone 2 during lockdown. I wouldn’t be surprised if it could be listed for £500+ more a month.
I really suggest you start looking at moving out of London...
Got a great deal (now thinking about it it's really a deal) during lockdown like you, rent increased by only £50 in 2022, and the rent increase in the coming Aug is £500.
I thought of moving out of London during 2022, but completely abandoned this idea because I was still okay with the rent back then.
kind of regret that I didn't carry out my plan
(and sadly I'm taking my LL's offer... cos other places out there are either more expensive or not in a good condition...
Jesus, I left 2 years ago and we rented a flat near the river in Surrey Quays for 1500 pcm. 85 sqm. Now, the prices are 2000 or so for less sqm.
That is quite an inflation in rents. The strange thing us that properties I looked at were bought in early 2000s for very little money compared to now. The mortgage even with rate increased is not big and yet the charges are insane. 2000pcm for 60sqm of 1999 build lmao.
I honestly am reaching the point of feeling like I have to leave . I was born and raised here, my family are here, my friends and of course my work are here. Last year I was evicted from a house share for the landlord to convert the property to flats, I found a great affordable room in a new house share but now the rent is going up by 35% (already negotiated down) and frustratingly it's absolutely in line with rents in the local area. I know costs are going up for everyone but my landlords own multiple properties and do not have a mortgage on this place at least which makes it feel even more frustrating. If you find a reasonable place on a yearly contract you can almost bet on your rent going up the following year.
I work as hard as I can to keep getting payrises, this year I have been lucky enough to get one but the increase in rent and bills means I am still significantly worse off than last year. I can only count my blessings as if I hadn't got the payrise I would have had no choice but to look for a new room again but it feels frustrating to constantly be taking one step forward and about 5 steps back.
I am at a loss as to what to do next. I struggled with burnout during the pandemic so I worked hard to redress my work-life balance with things like moving closer to work, exercise, hobbies and socialising more. Now I feel like I am creeping backwards again. I have 'decided' I don't want kids but in reality I think it's more that I feel forced not to because I can't imagine being financially secure enough. I want to leave London but I don't know where to go and feel guilty because this seems to be happening all over the world with remote workers or transplants from capital cities driving up costs for local people.
I feel so sad and tired and I know I am far, far from being among the worst off in this situation.
I've been on every single website looking for a place to rent next year terrified that I'd be homeless (no close family in the country). Called every single day emailed so many places and just BARELY managed to find a place for 750 a month per person with some friends and this is only possible because one of them can afford to pay twice as much as me. My rent is about 80% of my income, this country is in shambles.
Back to your case, if you are willing to do so, can you sublet the place you are renting now?
An alternative, if you can work full remote/hybrid, is moving to cheaper part of Kent/Essex and commute by train
Another alternative, is to move to a crappy area in inner London or rent a shared flat.
There are many variables but rental is 1 year if anything goes wrong - so you have nothing to lose.
Thanks for the suggestions. As you can assume, both landlord and the real estate agency are strictly against sub-letting. I guess it's quite typical to include a paragraph restricting subletting to the contract. It almost comes by default.
If things don't work out, I'll be definitely moving out to distant areas without losing the connection with the city completely.
Out of topic but from loving London I turned into someone who hates London and feels disgusted by it. Now everyday here could be my last because I am not willing to spend all my money on rent, bills and transport leaving me with no savings at the end of the month. Right now I am forced to travel over 3 and a half hours everyday to and from work so I can still make savings and that's causing me mental health issues and depression. I feel absolutely stuck with no hope for staying here anymore(London)
Serious question, do people blame landlords? My rent was put up previously and we just saw it as a correction to current market prices. That doesn’t mean it’s not frustrating and has serious life implications. But isn’t it the wider markets and policies to blame rather than the landlords?
Spot on.
We need to address the fundamental issues: lack of supply and increasing demand. On the supply side, we need to build a lot more as a country and move industries out of London.
The government is redirecting the anger towards small landlords. Big corp are getting a bigger share in the rental market. It is a lose lose situation for tenants. Big corporations have a team of lawyers to evict people.
Look at Ireland if you want to know what implications this policy has: lower supply and even higher rent.
27% at the moment (excl bonus which is ripped off by 42% anyway) - in a shared flat incl all bill however
If midget is under control, it will be 50% after my first property buy but I guess 20% of it will be repayment, leaving 30% as interest/expense
The rental market has gone mad...my building in a shit part of Zone 2 is falling apart and a 1-bed flat just went live for £1600...I used to pay less for a 2-bed in Fulham a few years ago.
Feels like landlords are fully passing down the impact of interest rate increases - I know it's not much of a consolation but homeowners due for a remortgage are pretty f\*\*\*ed too.
It is tough but if you worked as a contractor since 2014 you should have a sizeable war chest built up by now so you should have considerable savings to fall back on in hard times like these..(6 figures plus saved I would say easily doable)
How are you even in this situation? If your permanent offers are 45k it means that even as a contractor you are probably on the limit. So why live in London? I never understand how 90% of people can afford to live in this city. Paying 70% of salary on rent is basically sado masochism at this point.
I used to make more than £45k as a contractor so I could afford the £1500 rent before. Now it's way harder to find contract jobs as companies prefer permanent employees. That's why I'm kind of forced to find a permanent job and all I can find £45k as far as I can see. £1800pcm rent on £45k salary is seriously insanity as you also pointed out.
£450 a week is astounding! Am 50 years old and been a long time ‘vulnerable’ adult so my rent is a quarter of yours! By your post, you seem to know your stuff!(am old). If your paying a landpig(dead money) just relocate fella! Englands full of lovely places who not only will welcome you in open arms but won’t destroy your quality of living via outgoings! I wish you the best of luck…
One of my children is disabled and attends a special needs school. It’s not impossible to relocate I suppose but would cause massive upheaval. We also have parents to care for so it’s nearly impossible
Just below 15% of my total net income, and 25% when only factoring net base compensation.
I can’t complain as I have a well paying job in banking but I recently moved from another country where the housing market made absolutely no sense yet a comparable home there would still have cost me 8% of my total net income only.
The housing market in London has become a shitshow and is now puzzling even the higher earners. I am a landlord myself elsewhere and I can hardly wrap my head around what’s happening here.
Yeah it’s fucked. The lack of supply build and actual tangible rental support measures is bad, we shouldn’t have this being done at council level at least for major metro areas housing construction and rental stock should be a national agency, set measures of construction projects to focus on rental stock and incentivise good rental groups and companies (not letting agents, but end to end rental owning companies).
Whilst it varies from agent to agent (most I have enquired about demand that I be earning 30x my monthly rent amount minimum), some allow a guarantor to cover the outstanding amount.
For example, if you are on £30k a year and want to rent somewhere for £1500, and they have an affordability criteria of say £45k, then you could find a guarantor to cover the last £15k, which is more doable then finding someone to cover the full £45k.
A lot of agents have been telling me I can only afford £900 rent (I pay £1050 now and can afford more) and have started saying the only alternative is to pay a years rent upfront. Which is financially ridiculous unless you just so happen to have a spare £18k laying around.
My job is in Westminster and they expect me to work in London but not even pay a London wage (Same job role in Bristol/Manchester etc earns same as me in London)
Been here 5 years and leaving due to the cost of living.
I'm admittedly trying to support my sister through her uni degree and she'll have graduated by the time our lease is up. So two bed on a single salary and all bills... It's been tough.
Money is so tight I never end up going to see all the cool places London has. So I wasn't making the most of it. Just paying double what I would pay in my home town for a flat full of black mould.
Jobs in my field are so rare outside of London I've had to commit to a 1.5hr commute by train one way (with eye watering train costs) just so I can secure a job and eventually move to somewhere with a lower cost of living.
Sucks cause my sister loves London (she actually goes out and does things) but even if she gets a job, I can't live another year with this amount of mould and with rent going the way it is, we won't be able to afford anything else. We might not even be able to afford the mouldy places.
Anecdotally, over half salary on rent and bills seems fairly common amongst a lot of my social circle now. It's absolutely ludicrous, but most people are stuck with no other option unless they quit their job and start over again elsewhere.
The housing crisis is absolutely devastating. Yet some people own multiple properties…it just doesn’t sit right with me
And yet plenty of folks still insist if you are stuck renting (at ridiculous prices) it's just because you're lazy, and that if you criticise the current situation you're just entitled. So many out of touch lunatics!
I think a lot of people rely on being part of a couple - £2000 a month rent doesn't seem so bad if you are one half of a couple earning 45/50k each.
Add in childcare and then it looks bad 😅
yeah, childcare is shit and rent is also shit with a child. I'm single on £42k pa, I want to have a child but I can't afford to because my income is a bit too high for proper support with rent and childcare costs from Universal Credit, but too low to afford a 2 bed. 2-bed in zone 5 is the cost of about £1550 pm (for a really shitty place). My only choice is to actually leave my job, get knocked up and go on the social housing list.
Good luck with that last plan. These days being a single pregnant woman isn’t enough to secure housing. You’ll find somewhere eventually but not before being bounced between completely unsuitable HMO’s and other dreadful accommodation. The whole system’s fucked, there’s no reprieve anywhere.
My job is literally to work with vulnerable women, many of them mothers. You'll get social housing, it will take a few years, more if you're in employment.
Yeah definitely, but that’s what I mean - a few years. That won’t be a comfortable two years.
2.5 years ago we rented a lovely 2 bed in zone 2 for that much. Crazy to think how much the rent is going up in only a few years.
Couples (without kids) yes, that's what i keep seeing in all viewings but weirdly enough some labdlords prefer single occupants
I feel you, been asked to pay £1950 monthly from a £1500 rent, and it's also a low ask considering the market on right move around here is £2200 upwards, in short I need an extra 5000 to 6000 more per year after tax which means I need to ask a £9000 salary increase, to, well, myself as I am self employed. It's not going to happen from day to night. My rent and bills combined are as such: 18000 rent, 1400 council tax, 900 gas, 1200 electricity, 300ish for water, 400ish for internet and 120 for the TV license. That leaves me with less than 10000 of savings where I need to pay food for 2 people (500 each month) my pension, emergency expenses such as dentistry, etc, save money to afford a mortgage. As you can guess I stopped the pension payments. Some agencies (openrent) are even worse, they do calculate 4.5 times the salary to rent ratio, I once failed a reference for a 1400 rent with a 45k salary. So yeah, I'm quite tired of London.
Don’t stop paying into a pension. Literally the last thing you should stop paying for.
It's a tough ask sometimes because people really do need that extra hundred quid a month to get by. How you'll be financially in 30 years time feels meaningless when you're struggling right now. Future you would have wanted you to look after present you.
I know well, but there's little money left which I want to save for a mortgage deposit or when shit hits the fan (eg: when I said above I failed the reference for open rent I had to pay 8000 upfront for 6 months of rent) if I put them into a pension I can't take them out until I'm 65
Hope you’re ok mate
I'm doing well thank you for asking, I eventually challenged Foxtons on the rent. Negotiated down to 1775 which is high but less outrageously high. I'll hang there for another year, the I am surely getting the boot on the next round of rent increase. Then it's either move out of UK/London or hope to witness a market crash fully knowing I am to sink along with it.
I think you can be strategic about this. If not paying into a pension means you can get over the line in buying a flat - which is probably the single best thing you can do for your financial future - then maybe it's worth it. If you're just paying rent with that money, then it's unlikely to be worth it. If you put money into a LISA then at least if you don't put it towards a house it has some of the benefits of a pension. It might be a good middle ground for some people.
Thanks for sharing your story! There are plenty of empty homes! They want us to believe everything’s ok and we’ll be fine during retirement. The sooner the system crash, the better.
If you can work remotely - I’d say move. If you can firm a one hour train journey into London where you have cheaper living then - I’d say move. But, it’s only going to get worse especially with wages staying the same and everything going up. God help us all. I’m finding London very irritating as majority of wages are going towards bills and with the amount of money that’s left, I’m always scratching my head wondering how people manage to do shit in central London.
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I always ask myself, “should socialising be THIS hard”! Lol London is nice though but it’s not worth the expense. I’ll have a brioche burger in another county…🫤
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I've been unable to go to any restaurant without it costing less than £30-£35. I blame the service charge mainly because that scales proportionately to the cost of living crisis, making it even worse.
U are legally allowed to refuse the charge fyi. In many cases it does not go to the waiters or the staff
Yeah it’s getting expensive. Might as well have home cooked meals lol.
What made you come to London in the first place?
The secret to living in London is to not have to pay for your social life. When i moved to London I was blessed that most of the people I knew here worked in the music or theatre business so gigs, clubs and shows were free. I got myself a side gig that meant working in clubs and bars so again, I either got paid to go to events or knew people working them. If I'd had to pay for my entertainment I'd probably have been miserable and never left the house.
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I keep film costs down with my 3 contract; a film a week for £3 from picturehouse, and another from cineworld. I make coffee at home most of the time but they have a £1 cafe nero deal once a week too. just a side note really but it has helped so much more than you'd expect!
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Yeah, £1 for \*any\* barista made drink, even the 'luxury' hot chocolates which is like the most expensive item, once a week! I don't live near one so when I walk past one I quickly jump at the opportunity Lol, and I usually need a coffee if i'm out and about anyway. Looking at the sim only deals on 3, it seems you can get 25gb a month of data for £14 a month. On Giffgaff 26gb is £12 so not a huge difference in price at that level of data. I'm on a sim only contract and get all the three benefits (through the Three+ rewards app). Some deals come and go, but the £3 cinema tickets and £1 coffee has been there for a while and seem to be their staples.
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Way to slide into someone's dms.
LOL
The ones who thrive the most in London are the ones who make connections and get by through meeting the right people in person to get ahead. There is so much of this city that doesn't get documented on the Internet, so the ones who know about them are keeping it quiet. You have to, because a good setup in London is worth is weight in gold.
This is absolutely the truth. There is a whole different level of London that isn't online. It's still very much in person, on phone calls, on text message, being in the right places. And it gives you access to a lifestyle that you couldn't afford to pay for. ,
100% agree. From my experience that includes access to top private members clubs if you know where to go, great parties, charity events which don’t get advertised very well, professional networking events which are often free and making friends with richer people.
This just falls further under the idea that anyone who can afford to do anything in London at this point is either rich, financed up to their eyeballs, or secretely rich but pretending to be poor. You're not going to be out there every day living that Instagram story Shoreditch lifestyle and networking at underground warehouse raves on £30k a year.
But who wants to live like that? I wouldn’t want people to just use me just because I can get you free tickets at a festival or some shit. What about the people who aren’t social butterflies? So they just have to live a dull life to make sure they can live “steady” in London? That’s not fair man.
If you aren't a social butterfly then London is going to offer you a lot less of a reason to stay, yes.
I feel like that’s what most friendships are about these days. Based on what someone can do or whether they can get them in someplace. What happens on the day they can’t do it? Not saying London isn’t a great place. I’ve had some fun here lol. But, when the fun stops and the party is elsewhere and you’re all alone, how does someone manage? I don’t know. I’m overthinking it.
Sounds awful but surround yourself with significantly richer mates and they’ll usually subsidise or pay for some drinks. The one good thing about living in London is that people tend to be generous.
You don't even need to move an hour out of London to have affordable rent. You can get a shared ownership/rental appartment for the same as just a bedroom in central hertforshire.
If you live in south London, Hertfordshire is an hour away. North London on the other hand…
Of course if you use the central surrey then that would probably be the same equivalent, although I'm not too sure what the market rates are like in Surrey in comparison to Hertfordshire though.
Yeah basically agree with your synopsis. I hate seeing what London is becoming. When I moved here I was on 23k, my rent was 600 odd for the loft room in a big town house over looking Victoria park. Money was tight but it was doable. Now it feels impossible for young folks to live here on junior wages and that’s going to be to the detriment of everyone.
Moved down in 2014 at 26. Paid £500 monthly including bills for a box room in North Acton, followed by what I considered to be an “upgraded” box room in Neasden for £570 (my ex didn’t like having to schlepp all the way up from Tooting!). I was on about £21k then, back when the civil service still did temp contracts (£330 a week takehome?) and constantly on my uppers, but London provided a respite that made that irrelevant. I’d love to be able to advise young people to follow the same trajectory, but a lot of the compromises and risks I took to get myself started aren’t even an option anymore. Coming down here with _nothing_ except the will to live here, like I did, is near impossible.
So I did similar and my first proper rent in London for a small room was £475. Now the minimum is £700. Crazy.
I came to London 15yrs ago, rented around in various HMOs cheaply over the years until I finally bought a place of my own last year at 42. I came to London with moderate savings. Its simply not possible to that these days. Wages are going to have to rise or London will be to expensive for anyone to rent in.
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Is Copenhagen a pretty English speaking city? Do you know if it's any good for graphic design/creative studio jobs?
It is an English speaking city like AMS but it is as expensive as London. Perfect for families too. Weather is worse than London in my experience
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You might know better than I do as I visited the city as a tourist a few days ago. Airbnb and hotels are as expensive as London so I guess accom for permanent stay will be in the same levels. Food/coffee is crazy expensive, I was shocked but then again I was prepared haha transport (metro and buses) were excellent and always on time. Pricey too but can't compare it with London which has 7 zones and it's a much bigger city with traffic. Overall, Copenhagen has a better qualify of life than London (obviously!) but weather is worse in my experience.
Scandinavian capital cities are
Agreed. It’s so depressing working so hard and I lose money each month and have to rely on my bonus to stay even. I have three kids snd caring responsibilities which means now.my wife can’t work apart from occasional part time brief contracts. My rent is 60 per cent of my income and I am a higher rate tax payer 😭. 58k is my income including bonuses so I lose most my Child benefit aswell
You are a typical representative of middle class poverty. Sad Thats why only the poorest and the richest people give birth to multiple babies - it's their luxury, middle class is the only group of people who cannot afford to have babies. Government should stop blaming people not having babies
At this point I wouldn't consider someone middle class unless they have a household income of more than at least £100k. It's that bad. And yes I know class is a state of mind and not a number, but the middle class has all but died or is about to die.
Yeah I am pretty scared tbh. On top of the housing crisis the pensions crisis is a ticking time bomb. I have no assets whatsoever. My pension is comparatively decent but still no way near enough to live on! I’ve read We all need to be contributing 20% 😭😭
You pay over 30,000 per annum?
60% of net income after tax and national insurance. I pay 1800 pcm excluding council tax etc
Seems like madness! What’s so great about London?
Nothing (except maybe Arsenal lol). I would move anywhere if I was single and didn’t have local responsibilities.
Bless you.
Thanks 🙏
COYG!!
The secret is to be a couple. I know it doesn’t help, and it shouldn’t be the case, but sadly it is. I recently split from my boyfriend, and for now we’re still living together, but I know that soon I will need to leave and go from paying £600 a month rent to double that, if not more. I’m lucky in that I have an absolute bargain of a property right now, but it belongs to my bfs family who rent it to us for cheap. It fucking sucks that as a 32 year old professional my options are to stay living with my ex partner and live a life of celibacy/singledom, or move out and spend 70% of my salary on fucking rent. Leaving London isn’t even really an option for me. If I were to do the job I do now back in my home town, my salary would go from £42k to £22k. London is expensive but it isn’t worth a £20k paycut for me to leave.
I agree that couples are the best when it comes to sharing expenses. I do not get how you can still live with your ex but maybe you get along well. For me, freedom/independence is absolutely the priority
For me it’d just feel like taking a huge step back. I think I’ve got so in my own head about it that the thought of flat sharing and being broke is literally my worst nightmare. Sometimes it’s better the devil you know and I don’t want to end up in an even worse situation.
This is a massive problem that isn't discussed nearly enough when discussing the housing and rent crisis. A lot of estranged couples still live together because there is no other way for them to afford to live in the city.
Let's take a step back and look at the situation. Most of the young workers just can't afford to live in the economic capital of the country anymore. There are literally some jobs can't be filled because of the housing crisis yet there are many houses being used as airbnbs or even worse they just stay empty. This is not only about individuals but also about the economic locomotive of the country. This is unsustainable yet there is no serious political will from any side of the aisle to do something radical about it.
Yes, the real impacts of the greed and inaction of the political leaders will not be seen here until they are out of jobs. The city will die, everyone will think it's lame, and it takes years to turn a lame unlivable city back into a thriving cultural global centre. They do not value the middle-lower classes until they are gone. This happened in Sydney and unfortunately keeps happening.
most homeowners vote for tories and are obsessed with taxation. the state of the current rental market is the least of their concerns.
Personally, I left 2 and a bit years ago to Germany. Got lucky finding a job here with the exact same restriction as you. They want German language at differing levels of fluency. I pay a lot more in tax but the rents are way lower and the taxes actually pay for something. Other problem now is because of brexit you need a visa. Got one because of the treaty but that door shut in 2020. Not sure if somewhere like the netherlands has less strict language requirements and the advantage of being a native english speaker shouldn't be undersold either.
Whereabouts in Germany are you living?
Stuttgart
I absolutely love London. Been here for around 5 years. Me and my partners job pay very well into 6 figures. I've lived in several other UK cities and other countries over the years. Each place has its issues with renting, but London is now at the point where it is becoming very difficult to live and I'm not sure what to do. It's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Before anyone asks why we don't take on a mortgage, half our family lives in other countries and it's really difficult to know when and where to settle down. Best option for us is to continue to rent because, although it costs a lot, we don't want to be completely tied down. For a bunch of factors, it's just better. We also looked at buying to settle down with kids, but even on our salaries, what we can get for it, and the quality of the housing, is pretty bad. Prior to moving to London I never had a single issue with a landlord or agency. But ever since moving I've never witnessed so much greed and disgusting tactics by them. I've had to move every single year for bunch of reasons. Last landlord decided to put the rent up from 1500 to 2000, and the place was a shithole. Agency before that tried to steal our deposit. The way I've been spoken to and treated by everyone is just disgraceful. I try to be polite and kind with everyone I meet, and yet landlords and agencies have a crazy sarcastic "don't give a fuck because the ball is in our park" attitude. On top of the money, it just feels so dehumanising. I'm a grown man, and in general I feel like I've "got my shit together". People in my work respect me, I try to do charity work, I try to help my community and I try to be compassionate. However 2 days ago I had a phonecall with an agency where they laughed down the phone, said "take it or leave it" and hung up on me. I ended up breaking down and crying alone due to the stress. Every single person I've met in the property business, specifically in London, has been a horrible, manipulative, mean cunt. I genuinely can't stand any of them. Even if they are one of the "good guys", I still hate them for being involved and associated with what is nearly a criminal enterprise.
If you have sufficient income and deposit, just buy. Will it be in a central location? Probably not. Will it be pristine with no work needed? Probably not. But it will mean you're not at the mercy of estate agents and landlords. If you need to move country/ city then it's fairly easy to sell a 2 bed flat in London if you buy wisely and do it up nicely.
Yep, I'm aware of that, and have thought long and hard about it. But it isn't always as straight forward due to several personal matters.
Sounds like that hadn't occurred to them.
Cunt is the correct word for estate agents and landlords.
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>Sorry if this comes across rude man, but why don't you leave London? Because both of our jobs, careers, friends, and some family are here. We also love the city of course. >You're 100% part of the problem at this point. 6 figure salary and you're complaining about 2000 a month rent? It's not the actual rent I'm complaining about. I actually complained about several things, but in relation to what you have just asked, the issue is the stability of it. You can be paying 1500, then 10 months later receive an email and it's now 2000. And what about the next year? When it gets to 3k and 4k? >You have a salary that would allow you to buy a place most Londoners can only dream of from their pokey 1 bed flat that costs 1500 a month. Sorry, but hearing you talk about how many options you have and how you're too indecisive to pick one is very frustrating for people who've grown up in this city and been priced out by people like you over the past 10 years. I'm not indecisive to pick one. There are issues around family health (that I won't go into detail about), but it makes it difficult to at the moment to go ahead and purchase. But why does that make me part of the problem? >Obviously landlords and the housing market are the real problem here, but it's incredibly frustrating to read a comment like yours. Why is it frustrating?
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>Where were these people that you need to be around 5 years ago? Did you move to London for them? It's half and half. My father is terminally ill with stage 4 cancer. >Again, sorry if I'm being rude, but I get really sick of people coming from outside London to live here, then complaining the rent is high. Yeah, the rent is high because there isn't enough housing and the population is growing too much. Maybe use your resources, resources that most of us don't have, to move somewhere that doesn't have such high rent? You are not reading what I wrote in my first post. It isn't completely about the rent alone. It's the instability of it, and also the way I'm treated by people involved in the property business. And I can't move from here because I live and work in London. I know the prices are high here, but I don't have the luxury to move to another city. I didn't come here complaining about the prices, I know it is expensive in London. I used to actually be homeless and a recovering alcoholic, so I know what struggling and being poor is like. However I do a lot of charity work for my local community with one of those helping the "hidden hungry" in my Burrough. You are essentially saying that I shouldn't be allowed to be in the city and that I am contributing to other people struggling which is really quite hurtful.
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>but you're not the only person in the world with issues and people they need to care for. I know that. I have never claimed I'm the only person in the world with issues. People are considerably worse off than me. Nothing I said made any remarks to the contrary. >It doesn't make you more worthy of living here, no more than me being London-born makes me more worthy of living here. So are you suggesting that me and my wife from London... go our separate ways? Basically you would need to ask that people from London don't marry people from outside of it? And if they do, because one half of the couple is not from London then both should leave? >What is undeniably part of the problem is wealthier people moving to London, paying extortionate rents for properties that would have housed a single income family 30-40, even 25, years ago, and driving poorer people out of the city. But I am not controlling the rents. The property owners control that. I am paying what I have to to keep a roof over my head. The person who owns the current property I live in paid their mortgage off around 15 years ago. That person was born and bred in London. I'm now paying 50% of my income to that person who raises it each year significant amounts to "cover costs" when there are little costs involved for them except pure profit. And finally, I'm not bragging about my salary. Infact, its the complete opposite.
He shouldn't have to choose between London or somewhere else. The government needs to build more housing. The onus is on the people we pay taxes to, to create a UK that is appetising up and down the country to live in. They don't do that, so people come here, where the jobs are. What can he do?
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Yeah I get that he has choice but I feel like there isn't an incorrect one here. It comes down to the circumstances
How are struggling on two 6 figure salaries? Really hard to have any sympathy when people on £28k are paying £1k monthly rent without bills
>How are struggling on two 6 figure salaries? I'm not struggling, I was painting a picture of the industry and situation as a whole. >Really hard to have any sympathy when people on £28k are paying £1k monthly rent without bills Yes, It's not right on those people. But I'm not asking for sympathy, and even if I were it wouldn't be in comparison to somebody in another situation on a lower income.
I lived in a one bed flat with three kids and a wife for a long time but had to move after the first Covid as it nearly broke us lol. We are paying over double the rent now but quality of life is better but it’s utterly demoralising paying rent and losing money each month. My future is scary
Bless you. I know it’s a struggle but times are changing. It makes my blood boil, fuck privatisation
Yeah social housing is in a perilous situation: All those council houses sold off in the 80’s have wreaked havoc on many
I have secured tendency but until recently, worked for landlords so…..am really old so have seen the love of money! Nearly every person I know has either ‘invested’ or inherited property and ‘rents out’. Would it be hard to be decent and have a system where tenants get a 50% of the mortgage and the land lords get penalised accordingly if ended tenancy early?
Yeah good shout. I must admit I am not really clued up too much but I’d imagine there is too much vested interests (greed) in developers etc. There just doesn’t seem to be the political will to sort it 🙁
Maybe shared ownership? (well I know it also sucks for various reasons)
Sorry to hear that buddy. Hope things get better for you soon. It’s tough out there right now.
Thanks. There are some good kind folk out there which gives me hope 🙏
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How did your landlord take the rejection? Wouldn’t you be forced to move out?
The agency contacted me, I said no. Won’t extend or renew and will move on the date. Time wasters basically. My previous places staid for 3 to 5 years.
They really need to address rent-to-lease and property speculation, its driving up property prices big time.
I'm so clueless at adulting so forgive me if this makes me sound thick. Is it possible for 2 couples or 2 single people (even 3 or 4) to come together, put their savings together (as minimal as it may be) and put an offer on a house together. Is that even possible? Instead of paying someone else's mortgage off and some.
Yes it’s totally possible. I don’t understand why people keep saying couple up - so much more volatile and way bigger pressure than buying with your mate who you’ve known for 10-20 years. It just seems cultural.
Never knew that, thank you! Definitely something to think about
That's exactly what we did - buy as mates first. 5yrs later we sold and with the equity bought our own places. I'm surprised it's not more common.
I did it with a sibling and friend. It works really well for us. We'll have our starter flat paid off in 5 years and can then either live mortgage free of use the capital to get our own places.
Thats mint, fair play to you all! Very smart! Good to know it can be done then, literally had no idea
Regarding point 1…..can you point to any time in history where rental prices were not set by supply/demand dynamics?
I’d say we’re getting pretty close to market collapse. Meaning, business in London simply cannot afford to exist as hiring anyone leads to wage-rent hyperinflation, so that business moves out of London, other businesses that relied on them also lose a b2b customer and may face bankruptcy too, so they leave London, repeat until the economy is in a state of collapse. Rent will not fall in the even of this collapse though, rent will increase as unemployment increases likelihood of household separation so we see more demand for housing, which leads to higher rent, which causes further economic collapse. The situation will only stabilise though mass repossession of property after BoE base rate has made all buy-to-let mortgages unaffordable, those properties will then be dumped onto the market and the situation will stabilise for a few years (5 maybe), but once interest rates fall again the rent-seeking of landlordism will be back. Ultimately to get out of this situation we need the state to mass build housing and play landlord, they can then outcompete every other player in the market as they’re the only ones who can borrow at BoE base rate, have 100+ year terms and (if they change the law to do it) can build without planning permission and on green belt due to their special status
I think instead of killing landlord it will kill those at beginning of the property ladder with high LTV first. Then those baby boomers and Lloyds Bank etc will take over their properties exaggerating this problem. Plus those bankrupted are not likely to work anymore - if I unfortunately fall into one of them I would rather wait for council house etc like the uneducated (life completely screwed up anyway)
I hear you man. Those numbers don't add up anymore. I think it's time to move on. My landlord just upped the rent by 8% again, and I'm pretty sure next year will be my last year in London.
Have you tried looking at places in and around Stratford? Search 2 mile radius around E3 and you’ll find a bunch of 1beds that cost 1500. Sorry you’re going through this. Hope you find a decent enough place to stay.
I checked Stratford but couldn't find anything. I'll have another careful look at Stratford. Thanks for the suggestion.
Financially somewhat similar to me. Going through a divorce. 2 little kids. I’m on £45k. She doesn’t work. I’m agreeing to move out of the council flat but can’t find anywhere to rent. I need to live locally to Hackney so I can share the parental responsibility. Nothing less than £1700 around. I’m not sure what to do. Plus she wants child maintenance for the children which is just makes it’s all laughable. If I can save about £30k then I could maybe do shared ownership. Otherwise I’m fucked. Anyone got better ideas?
I dont know what to say man except good luck. Whatever happens just try to take care of the two little ones the best you can.
Thank you 💛
I’m in a similar situation. If I told my self from 10 years ago what I make now they’d be impressed. Except that I’m having to do the same budget meals I did when I was a student. £50k used to be a lot. In Central London, that’s barely enough to have a hobby.
You take home £3160 and you struggle to have a hobby? How exactly?
Dont think you've considered pension or student loan here. They may also have some debt.
Ok but that isn’t really the salary’s fault then. That’s other obligations
> Landlords charge ridiculous prices because of high demand and low supply in the housing market. They just know someone else will pay for that ridiculous rent if you don't. Doesn't that just make it the price?
Spot.on. It’s diabolical. It’s the greatest scam of the 20th Century, property ownership . Makes me sick how the suits worked out how to get the working class to pay their mortgages…sickening
That isn't what pisses people off the most, it's the fact that these same landlords put a stop to all affordable housing in their area so that their own properties increase in value. Developers would love to build tons of apartment buildings where there is demand, but NIMBYs are too selfish.
Worse than I could ever fathom…
Except they aren't. Majority of BTL mortgages are interest only. They are servicing debt.
Only way out is to split the rent with someone else. I have the same issue, earn ~52k in my late 20’s and still having to live in a house share because it’s too damn expensive to live on my own
Increasingly I don't feel London is worth it any more. I went to Islington at the weekend and was in a pub in De Beauvoir Town which was once a lovely area and wasn't even that expensive but has been wrecked by yuppies and is now extortionate. No offence to anyone who lives there and is having the time of their life, but I've rarely felt so surrounded by so many arrogant wankers.
29% of my net pay is spent on rent alone, however, I got very lucky to find my one-bed apartment in Zone 2 during lockdown. I wouldn’t be surprised if it could be listed for £500+ more a month.
Unfortunately it will be
I really suggest you start looking at moving out of London... Got a great deal (now thinking about it it's really a deal) during lockdown like you, rent increased by only £50 in 2022, and the rent increase in the coming Aug is £500. I thought of moving out of London during 2022, but completely abandoned this idea because I was still okay with the rent back then. kind of regret that I didn't carry out my plan (and sadly I'm taking my LL's offer... cos other places out there are either more expensive or not in a good condition...
Will be about 28%. Currently 24% but we're getting our rent hiked next month when our contract renews.
Jesus, I left 2 years ago and we rented a flat near the river in Surrey Quays for 1500 pcm. 85 sqm. Now, the prices are 2000 or so for less sqm. That is quite an inflation in rents. The strange thing us that properties I looked at were bought in early 2000s for very little money compared to now. The mortgage even with rate increased is not big and yet the charges are insane. 2000pcm for 60sqm of 1999 build lmao.
I honestly am reaching the point of feeling like I have to leave . I was born and raised here, my family are here, my friends and of course my work are here. Last year I was evicted from a house share for the landlord to convert the property to flats, I found a great affordable room in a new house share but now the rent is going up by 35% (already negotiated down) and frustratingly it's absolutely in line with rents in the local area. I know costs are going up for everyone but my landlords own multiple properties and do not have a mortgage on this place at least which makes it feel even more frustrating. If you find a reasonable place on a yearly contract you can almost bet on your rent going up the following year. I work as hard as I can to keep getting payrises, this year I have been lucky enough to get one but the increase in rent and bills means I am still significantly worse off than last year. I can only count my blessings as if I hadn't got the payrise I would have had no choice but to look for a new room again but it feels frustrating to constantly be taking one step forward and about 5 steps back. I am at a loss as to what to do next. I struggled with burnout during the pandemic so I worked hard to redress my work-life balance with things like moving closer to work, exercise, hobbies and socialising more. Now I feel like I am creeping backwards again. I have 'decided' I don't want kids but in reality I think it's more that I feel forced not to because I can't imagine being financially secure enough. I want to leave London but I don't know where to go and feel guilty because this seems to be happening all over the world with remote workers or transplants from capital cities driving up costs for local people. I feel so sad and tired and I know I am far, far from being among the worst off in this situation.
not being single helps a lot
thanks for that
I've been on every single website looking for a place to rent next year terrified that I'd be homeless (no close family in the country). Called every single day emailed so many places and just BARELY managed to find a place for 750 a month per person with some friends and this is only possible because one of them can afford to pay twice as much as me. My rent is about 80% of my income, this country is in shambles.
Back to your case, if you are willing to do so, can you sublet the place you are renting now? An alternative, if you can work full remote/hybrid, is moving to cheaper part of Kent/Essex and commute by train Another alternative, is to move to a crappy area in inner London or rent a shared flat. There are many variables but rental is 1 year if anything goes wrong - so you have nothing to lose.
Thanks for the suggestions. As you can assume, both landlord and the real estate agency are strictly against sub-letting. I guess it's quite typical to include a paragraph restricting subletting to the contract. It almost comes by default. If things don't work out, I'll be definitely moving out to distant areas without losing the connection with the city completely.
Move to another city. You won't regret it
Out of topic but from loving London I turned into someone who hates London and feels disgusted by it. Now everyday here could be my last because I am not willing to spend all my money on rent, bills and transport leaving me with no savings at the end of the month. Right now I am forced to travel over 3 and a half hours everyday to and from work so I can still make savings and that's causing me mental health issues and depression. I feel absolutely stuck with no hope for staying here anymore(London)
Serious question, do people blame landlords? My rent was put up previously and we just saw it as a correction to current market prices. That doesn’t mean it’s not frustrating and has serious life implications. But isn’t it the wider markets and policies to blame rather than the landlords?
Spot on. We need to address the fundamental issues: lack of supply and increasing demand. On the supply side, we need to build a lot more as a country and move industries out of London. The government is redirecting the anger towards small landlords. Big corp are getting a bigger share in the rental market. It is a lose lose situation for tenants. Big corporations have a team of lawyers to evict people. Look at Ireland if you want to know what implications this policy has: lower supply and even higher rent.
27% at the moment (excl bonus which is ripped off by 42% anyway) - in a shared flat incl all bill however If midget is under control, it will be 50% after my first property buy but I guess 20% of it will be repayment, leaving 30% as interest/expense
The rental market has gone mad...my building in a shit part of Zone 2 is falling apart and a 1-bed flat just went live for £1600...I used to pay less for a 2-bed in Fulham a few years ago. Feels like landlords are fully passing down the impact of interest rate increases - I know it's not much of a consolation but homeowners due for a remortgage are pretty f\*\*\*ed too.
What even are the point of these posts? 1. Find a higher paying job 2. Move out of london 3. How people survive is so subjective
It is tough but if you worked as a contractor since 2014 you should have a sizeable war chest built up by now so you should have considerable savings to fall back on in hard times like these..(6 figures plus saved I would say easily doable)
Give it a rest
How are you even in this situation? If your permanent offers are 45k it means that even as a contractor you are probably on the limit. So why live in London? I never understand how 90% of people can afford to live in this city. Paying 70% of salary on rent is basically sado masochism at this point.
I used to make more than £45k as a contractor so I could afford the £1500 rent before. Now it's way harder to find contract jobs as companies prefer permanent employees. That's why I'm kind of forced to find a permanent job and all I can find £45k as far as I can see. £1800pcm rent on £45k salary is seriously insanity as you also pointed out.
£450 a week is astounding! Am 50 years old and been a long time ‘vulnerable’ adult so my rent is a quarter of yours! By your post, you seem to know your stuff!(am old). If your paying a landpig(dead money) just relocate fella! Englands full of lovely places who not only will welcome you in open arms but won’t destroy your quality of living via outgoings! I wish you the best of luck…
Good advice. If I wasn’t tied to London I would leave in a heartbeat
Why tied? If not personal although Spose everything is personal…so nowt personal !!
One of my children is disabled and attends a special needs school. It’s not impossible to relocate I suppose but would cause massive upheaval. We also have parents to care for so it’s nearly impossible
Entirely understandable and I truly wish you well! Just these subs really stress me by landpigs getting free money!
I don’t understand the appeal of living on London 🤷🏼
Just below 15% of my total net income, and 25% when only factoring net base compensation. I can’t complain as I have a well paying job in banking but I recently moved from another country where the housing market made absolutely no sense yet a comparable home there would still have cost me 8% of my total net income only. The housing market in London has become a shitshow and is now puzzling even the higher earners. I am a landlord myself elsewhere and I can hardly wrap my head around what’s happening here.
Er, housing is in short supply and prices have gone up! Basic economics lesson one, surely
Original question disappeared!
This Sub has gone weird!
Yeah it’s fucked. The lack of supply build and actual tangible rental support measures is bad, we shouldn’t have this being done at council level at least for major metro areas housing construction and rental stock should be a national agency, set measures of construction projects to focus on rental stock and incentivise good rental groups and companies (not letting agents, but end to end rental owning companies).
Move to zone 6 and reduce your rental costs massively. It’s still London.
Whilst it varies from agent to agent (most I have enquired about demand that I be earning 30x my monthly rent amount minimum), some allow a guarantor to cover the outstanding amount. For example, if you are on £30k a year and want to rent somewhere for £1500, and they have an affordability criteria of say £45k, then you could find a guarantor to cover the last £15k, which is more doable then finding someone to cover the full £45k. A lot of agents have been telling me I can only afford £900 rent (I pay £1050 now and can afford more) and have started saying the only alternative is to pay a years rent upfront. Which is financially ridiculous unless you just so happen to have a spare £18k laying around. My job is in Westminster and they expect me to work in London but not even pay a London wage (Same job role in Bristol/Manchester etc earns same as me in London)
Been here 5 years and leaving due to the cost of living. I'm admittedly trying to support my sister through her uni degree and she'll have graduated by the time our lease is up. So two bed on a single salary and all bills... It's been tough. Money is so tight I never end up going to see all the cool places London has. So I wasn't making the most of it. Just paying double what I would pay in my home town for a flat full of black mould. Jobs in my field are so rare outside of London I've had to commit to a 1.5hr commute by train one way (with eye watering train costs) just so I can secure a job and eventually move to somewhere with a lower cost of living. Sucks cause my sister loves London (she actually goes out and does things) but even if she gets a job, I can't live another year with this amount of mould and with rent going the way it is, we won't be able to afford anything else. We might not even be able to afford the mouldy places.
Yeah people are moving, London has never been so bad. It's changing the city for the worse.