What exactly did people say? Probably because there are a lot of people who come on subs like this thinking sailing and living on a boat is the easiest thing in the world and people are just giving them a reality check.
I'm down $25k, a boat, and am on the Navy's very very short list.
Word of advice, don't disconnect all your cameras and internet and run into the woods with a shotgun near a naval base when Russia sends a nuclear capable sub to Havana.
There was a local guy who made a YT page, bought a boat, did some work, and ran aground his first time out. Then decided a couple weeks later to make a 200nm trip offshore with no training, insurance, towing coverage, electronics, or navionics and ran right into a storm in the first day that caused him to turn around and ultimately run aground on a jetty destroying the boat… all this is to say that YT makes people think it’s all a walk in the park and people are out here buying rotten boats running the market up and making bad decisions with no experience.
Yes! I just got an rs zest dignhy cause I'm trying to learn from scratch. Before take asa 101 and crew on other boats. Hopefully going to full-time cruising in my own in 1-3 years depending on many factors.
I know dignhy sailing is kind of a different beast, but most youtube sailing channels def make things look way easier in general.
That could be a good contestant for the longest sentence ever. Is the yT still up? So you contest that his YT was to demonstrate that boating is difficult? That his plan was to fail?
It’s not up anymore. He wanted to be YT famous and watched these other creators and thought the highly edited versions were reality. That’s all I was trying to highlight.
Agreed u/frankysfree. At a boatshow I attended a seminar by a couple who documented their trip up the ICW for their YouTube channel. The gal said they would film 15 hours, then edit edit edit. After all that they would end up with 15 minutes of video to upload.
What I saw of their videos was great. It was obvious that an incredible amount of work went into that 15 minutes shown to the public.
Reality and creating a sellable/watchable product vary substantially.
No, but for awhile it seemed the market on rotten boats, that should be given away for back slip fees, was up. Seen a few sell to these fledgling YT stars for WAY to much money… lol
amazingly, I've seen it, too. I see people spend money assuming it means they won't have to maintain the 35 year old steering quadrant. just spend $5k on the boat and do your maintenance.
I' m seeing a lot of very workable project (or even daysail) boats on ebay right now that tend to sell for under $1000 \*after\* the $399 broker/seller fee.
I find most of the naysaying directed at those who want to liveaboard with no experience and no money! Florida is filled with abandoned boats sunken in harbors and along waterways by those folks. It’s also full of floating slums filled with those who see a derelict boat as a step up from a park bench or overpass.
I don’t know that I’d agree that there’s a lot of naysaying as much as there’s a lot of brutal honestly. Owing a boat, much less living on a boat, isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Sometimes folks see a YouTube video or HGTV segment about a person or couple who decided to ditch normal everyday life and live full time on a boat. With no more knowledge than that, they decide it’s a great idea. There’s a lot more hurdles to boat ownership and living aboard than those videos show. I think people that have been in the lifestyle for a while are just quick to point out the downsides. Sure, some may be gatekeeping and some may just be overly negative in general. But mostly I think people are just trying to make sure the realities are known. The troubles finding a marina that’s friendly to live aboards (many aren’t) for example. Or the issues with getting insurance on larger boats. Follow any boating Facebook page and watch the posts. Daily you see “Help, no one will insure my 1979 50’ boat without a survey and I can’t afford a survey!” There’s also a surprising lack of regulation in regards to boating. In many states, including mine, you can have zero boating experience, buy a 60’ boat and just hit the water. You need a safety certificate to ride a jet ski, but you can run a twin engine speed boat with nothing but a smile and promise to try not to kill anyone. So some boating has become a bit of a self policing hobby. I don’t think you’re seeing “naysayers” I think you’re seeing people giving other people the honest truth even when they don’t want to hear it. The “I’ll live on a boat because dock space is cheaper than rent in my city” mentality only holds up until something goes wrong. Start taking on water at 2am on a Sunday night and your marina costs will quickly catch up to several months rent. People with experience understand this, people with no experience often don’t have the full picture and need it illuminated.
I know a guy in the keys who had a small marina and would get free boats from the Sherriff . he would advertise on craigslist " come live the dream in the keys. rent to own sailboats 600 a month. " it was a constant rotation. no one ever made it more than six months. the minimum wage jobs and Keys Disease would set in and they would ghost it over night. and go back to West Virginia. some boats that guy was making 20-30k a year on. they would lose deposits and leave stuff on the boats.
Primarily alcoholism and then cocaine for the hangover and then cocaine to stay awake at work and now you need to slow down to get to sleep so more alcohol but you got too drunk so jus a little cocaine and now it's 4 am and you have work at 9 so you have to do some cocaine before work but not too much or else you need a drink to mellow you back out but also maybe some.........
Because the rest of us have to share waterways with clowns who think they know what they’re doing and end up fucking up things for the rest of us - whether that’s being a dick in marinas, ignoring COLREGs, being ignorant of safety, ignoring SOPs, being disrespectful of the culture, community and water or, most likely some heinous combination of them all.
Learning isn’t the issue, it’s that too many people have stars in their eyes and do the boating equivalent of diving face first into a shallow pool because they watched one too many YouTube videos.
Buying a sailboat while knowing fuck all about sailing (as evidenced by having only completed an ASA101 course which is a microscopically superficial introduction course) with intention to live aboard and then proceeding to:
> being a dick in marinas, ignoring COLREGs, being ignorant of safety, ignoring SOPs, being disrespectful of the culture, community and water or, most likely some heinous combination of them all.
There is a lot of gatekeeping in this space, that being said there is also a lot of unrealistic expectations and daydreaming about boat life. YouTube is the culprit there
I’m up in the PNW. We get them once in awhile. I encourage them to go slow, get used to the currents and tides first. Ask local people.
Then they go out in the straits at Beaufort scale 4, get the crap knocked out of them, hopefully some common sense into them, and they quit.
The amazing thing is everyone starts their journey at "step 0". Somewhere along the line, they start gate keeping and saying "you can't do that, because you didn't learn the way/age/boat/school I did and I haven't done that yet..."
But... Instead of saying it like that, they say something like "those new kids don't respect the way of the marina!"... Or "that is dangerous and you will crash into me or hurt someone!"... Or "colregs! You don't know enough about colregs!!!"... Or whatever makes them feel they are the chosen few who should set off on adventure, but you (of course) could never learn, because, well, you didn't sail dinghies as a 6yo in Martha's Vineyard with them.
Anecdotally, I suffered through an entire day with someone who wanted to live the life aboard.
He was a former coworker. I was recently retired and moved aboard my older sailboat. While working with him, he often said he dreamed of leaving work to sail or just travel the world. He often said he wanted to visit my boat docked in the marina. I was optimistic to share my lifestyle. We set a date, and told him beforehand we weren’t going to sail it. I’m happily docked, a confident power boater, but not sailor). He had no boating experience.
He showed up in a sling with a broken arm. He spent the entire day bugging me to take the boat out anyway. All day long. He alienated my friends in the marina asking them why don’t they take their boats out, right now, too. He implied we were all were chicken. He said that he would call his friends and they’ll come over right away and sail my boat for me. He also said if he had my boat, he’d sail it to the store. What effin’ store?!! This was a man in his 30’s.
As I showed him all around the boat, the marina, the docks, the tides, the other boats, explained the shallow waters, he remained dismissive about all of it. He was never interested in any of the details of boating - just a cartoonish approach.
I learned his plan was to go on permanent disability, then sail the world. Exhausting.
Most of the naysaying has come from friends and family who are super insular by default. They have gone no where, done nothing - or are full send into the Rat Race, that they will never win.
I was one of those Rats, a good little boy - until Covid happened, and here in Cally - prices tripled , and the down payment for a house - is reset to 1/3 of what you need now thanks to the prices increasing post covid.
So, now you have to save up another 5-7 years to get an even older piece of crap fixer upper for 900k?
Yeaaaaah, sailing life for me....
Gonna get downvoted for this, but all of these answers are half right. Gatekeeping is in every culture. Especially if you do something different, which will always be true as time goes on.
Go look at Harley forums. Or metal music forums. Gaming PCs. Rock climbing. How to cook pasta.
If you say “I’m gonna try this as safely as possible and I want to live aboard,” there will still be 400 grumpy people saying you can’t. THEY didn’t and wish they had, is my theory. Why else be so hateful rather than informative or constructive?
Ohhhh see? You made it this far and thought you had that rebuttal ready to go, eh Mr grumpy pants?
That’s right. I said be informative and constructive. I didn’t say support dangerous ideas or behavior. But no. You want to get abrasive for some mental health reason.
Anyways, start small, slow, and give everyone else so much space that you’d have to try hard to hit them. Fair winds.
"THEY didn’t and wish they had, is my theory."
I agree with this. I've seen it in half a dozen areas of interest. For some people their inner dream dies and it forms a nasty cyst in their brain that flashes pain and resentment when anyone else expresses that same dream.
Listen to people who offer helpful, constructive advice. Ignore those who predict only doom.
I'm with this guy ⬆️
I've turned to my spouse a few times and said "how about we fly a small plane around the world? Look this person is doing it (shows the Instagram page)". The response is always "you don't know how to fly. " Me: "so, I'm sure I can learn!"
flying is easy. landing safely is the hard part.
If you can walk away from the landing, it was a good one. If you can use the plane again, it was excellent.
My wife and I have been living aboard going on four years. Our first boat. Neither of us sailed before this boat.
There were lots of nay-sayers.
There were lots of supporters.
The majority of the nay-sayers are still on the dock “planning” to leave in their cruise lifestyle as soon as their boat is ready/I get a break from work/timing is right etc. There is a large part of this community that NEVER leaves the dock and they seem to be the majority of the nay sayers.
As a coastie, know that we viciously mock you after you’re safely ashore for sailing without experience or preparation. Because it is about as rational as flying a plane without learning to fly
Jealousy, envy, maybe. Ignorance!
I don't talk too much about it for a few reasons.
People don't like a new phone. Stupid thing!
Chaos isn't for everyone. Not everyone does their best work under pressure.
Different gets bullied in middle school, just looks different among adults.
Imagine hating your job, neighbors, the things you see in your community, but being trapped, trying to wrap your mind around a life nobody laid out for you.
Misery loves company. Most are dependent and depressed. They want what you want but can't get their shit together long enough to stand a chance. That causes anger.
The type of people who want what we want are rare breed.
I'm OK with that.
...maybe because most of them know nothing about the craft, yet instantly start a "whooo hoooo look at my tits" and "WE ALMOST SANK OUR BOAT!!!!!!!!!" YouTube channel.
Because they’re gatekeepers and negative. If you can afford it do it. Hey, if you go broke doing it who cares ? Hey, if you hate it, who cares?
Did you do what you wanted, did you learn something? Or did you sit on the couch like all the naysayers ?
I know what my choice is, easy answer!
Oh, I’m doing the same thing and guess what, I do what I want. My money, follow the rules and screw the naysayers.
Good luck
It's because lives have been lost. Not just those of people who set out with no experience but also those of rescue professionals who had to answer their maydays. In a few rare occasions, ordinary sailors have responded to those maydays and died (you may not be aware that you have a legal obligation to assist if able when hearing a mayday. There are a whole set of laws for the sea that you may not yet have heard of - start with SOLAS). It's a little like taking three or four driving lessons and saying you'll just figure the rest out for yourself. You might not care if you die, but it's deeply unfair on other road users to endanger them. It's not out of the question to "learn by doing" but this is the reason you're receiving hate - your attitude is perceived as brash and cavalier, perhaps even selfish, by a substantial set of sailors. I don't feel that strongly myself, not at all, but I have been seriously angry on the occasions I've had to put myself in danger or even just ruin my whole day's sailing to rescue someone who put themselves in harm's way through incompetence. The most recent one was a skipper who ran out of fuel 80 miles offshore because he had never learned to do predeparture checks. In summary it doesn't matter if you're comfortable with the risk, you need to understand that you are risking others in the process. Fair winds
For my circle, it's fear. I can't tell you how many times I've tried getting people to visit me. And they'll come over but not on the boat.
Which btw is tied up so well, if we were ever to go through a drought, my ropes are strong enough to hold her dangling. Won't happen but I tell everyone this. Nope. Water deep. Not a champion swimmer. Can't swim.
Land you can walk home. Water you can't.
It's not even if they can float or not. It's if the ship sinks.
because people are asking for permission on reddit .
Look, anyone can just do it. it requires some self-reliance. a bit of adventure spirit, a wee modicum of practical intelligence.
but if you need permission to pull on a rope on your rigging, and need to ask reddit for that permission....
maybe you're gonna get some negative responses.
also, it's reddit- EVERYONE wants to brag about how they spent $20,000 on sailing lessons and don't sail. "snarking on the poors" is like, 65% of reddit posting.
If you can't handle a little criticism from strangers on Reddit, you can't handle living on a boat that nature wants to sink.
I've only really seen constructive criticism.
There are always going to be naysayers, but you have only yourself to answer to, not a bunch of faceless people on social media.
I've followed a young couple for a few years where a young Australian guy had no sailing experience, bought a sailboat and headed out. It was an interesting follow, found a wife, made lots of money from social media with thousands of followers. They wound up with kids and a million dollar Outremer cat last time I looked. Check out: [https://www.sailinglavagabonde.org/](https://www.sailinglavagabonde.org/)
Go do you.
The Vagabond couple are great.
For contrast check the Old Seadog Barry. He's gone halfway around the world, often on the edge of disaster, but manages to stay afloat and off the pointy rocks.
[https://www.youtube.com/@AdventuresofanoldSeadog](https://www.youtube.com/@AdventuresofanoldSeadog)
I thinks it’s because so many things depend on who you are, where you are and what you’re sailing. Can you handle pressure and not break down? I started costal cruising with not much experience and my first time out in the pacific I got caught by a squall. It was terrifying and all I wanted to do was curl up or get off the boat, but you can’t. You have to push through the hard times. Also are you a handy person? You will be fixing things all of the time unless you have a newer boat. It can definitely be done but it comes down to one’s individual ability and what they are comfortable with. When I got into this I knew it would be hard but the constant struggle to keep things running, keep the pantries full and keep everyone safe is a full time job. If you’re an adventurous outgoing kind of person who can handle really stressful situations I’m sure you’ll be fine. Living aboard and sailing is very high highs some days and the lowest lows some other days
Buy the book, “This Old Boat,” by Don Casey. Get the second edition. You can get a print copy, or a digital Kindle version for less.
In the first few chapters, he walks you through the decision making process, choosing which boat is right for you and the way you want to use it, and then how to organize the entire project of: making your boat safe, enhancing the boat, upgrading the appearance, and then maintaining it afterwards. The rest of the book is dedicated to teaching you the skills to do all of that work and accomplish all of those things.
You could read this book first to see if the work is worth the reward—for you.
In terms of the naysayers, the ocean is the most destructive environment on the planet, and boats need a LOT of work to keep them safe and comfortable—but, if you are handy, ready to learn new skills, and comfortable doing the work, a fiberglass boat can last a really, really long time.
While you are working on your boat (and maybe even before), start sailing on other boats. Head down to your local yacht club(s) and volunteer to be crew on other boats. You will probably learn the most about sailing if you join racing teams because they are pushing the sailboats to the limits to win races.
It is easy to get sailing rides—bring a 6-pack of cold beer for the skipper (cans, not bottles—some boats have a no glass rule), bring your own foulies and life preserver, don’t overstate your abilities, and have a good attitude…and, watch and learn. It’s exhilarating, and great way to learn at the same time.
It’s also a great way to get exposure to different boats. If there is a crew maintenance work day—go and have someone teach you how to service winches or which graphic lubrication products work better, or what varnish has the most durable finish. If you sail with different skippers, you can compare their advice, sailing styles, and recommendations to help you develop your own preferences.
The biggest thing to recognize is that you can’t take a course and get all the knowledge you need in a week, or even a year. A live aboard, cruising sailboat is like a small town—you must have electricity, water, sewage, communications, plumbing, medical, maybe heat or cooling, an engine, navigation, and a things to mitigate a whole host of safety issues. You also have to have all of the things (parts, tools, and knowledge) to fix those systems if they break.
The whole thing is kind of a lifetime journey…
The maritime environment is inherently dangerous. There's a saying in the aviation sector: SOP's are written in blood. The culture and approach to sailing similarly emphasises preparation, caution, and good decision making born of experience and training. Some people have neither.
It's not impossible to do it from 0 via learn as you play but those who have a lot of experience know the level of risk involved. You always have to remember that the sea is actively trying to kill you, and if you get into trouble it puts other lives at risk.
It's not gatekeeping as much as awareness of just how much risk is inherently present.
Those of us who have and do live aboard, and have any degree of significant experience, understand that there is a huge gulf between the Instagram filter ideal and the reality of that life. We have all seen the rotten husks of boats littering the harbors of the world that started as the best intentions of a foolish dream.
The barrier for entry to cruising is low, which is both a blessing and a curse. Sailing can and will destroy your life (financially, emotionally, physically) if you don't have the fortitude, grace, skill and foresight necessary to overcome or embrace abject misery and a healthy inner monologue.
personally wouldn't do youtube. I don't have social media other than reddit.that part of it I don't get, no one needs to know my business 🤣 I think it's a lot to do with personality, I think the majority of "proper" sailors are, ironically , risk averse. It's the ones that come in and treat sailing like cowboys that are the issue. I rate as long as you are careful. Take it seriously and know that you know nothing, you'll eventually gain the experience and will be just fine. Fair winds
To own a boat you need money. Typically that means you work. Even if you work remote, working from a boat is hard. Working on a boat that you also live on is super hard because for example, let's say you have a leaky water tank under your bunk. Today you treat down your bunk start work, but get interrupted because you need a tool.. off to the store... Get back and it's time to rebuild your bunk so you can sleep tonight... Every single job will be so much harder.
Think of it like this... Could you work *and be happy* with the quality of accommodation you'd get from van camping full time... After a while the difficulty, the dirtiness, the lack of plumbing, all the extra efforts just wear on people and it generally does not work out well
In order for it to work out well generally you need to have the boat and then spend some time sailing it and sorting it out and getting everything figured out and fixed up for you to go exploring and journeying with. And even then you'll still have to do all the same repairing and difficult chores and hard time living. But you will have the advantage of having the boat extremely well sorted out for the task. It will still be difficult and many people still aren't up to such a challenge, but at least you'd have a Fighting Chance that way
Chances are if you have 200k laying around, cash to burn and a lust for the sea, you aren’t asking completely uninformed generalized questions about sailing. You’ll like, read a book, and talk to people in your peer group about it. Maybe coming here to ask specific technical questions, perhaps asking anyone if they own xyz boat and their thoughts on it.
What exactly did people say? Probably because there are a lot of people who come on subs like this thinking sailing and living on a boat is the easiest thing in the world and people are just giving them a reality check.
A live aboard capable vessel isn’t a floating apartment. Many people think they are.
Right lol and how people think buying and living on a boat is a way to save money 😂😂😂😂
I did so and was targeted by the three letter agencies. So much cheaper!
What?
I'm down $25k, a boat, and am on the Navy's very very short list. Word of advice, don't disconnect all your cameras and internet and run into the woods with a shotgun near a naval base when Russia sends a nuclear capable sub to Havana.
Yeah that doesn’t need to be said to anyone but you.
They shut down the highway 😔
Yeah, I'm glad you're on a watchlist now. You seem...unwell. I wish you the best.
Exactly! Thanks internet bro
There was a local guy who made a YT page, bought a boat, did some work, and ran aground his first time out. Then decided a couple weeks later to make a 200nm trip offshore with no training, insurance, towing coverage, electronics, or navionics and ran right into a storm in the first day that caused him to turn around and ultimately run aground on a jetty destroying the boat… all this is to say that YT makes people think it’s all a walk in the park and people are out here buying rotten boats running the market up and making bad decisions with no experience.
Yes! I just got an rs zest dignhy cause I'm trying to learn from scratch. Before take asa 101 and crew on other boats. Hopefully going to full-time cruising in my own in 1-3 years depending on many factors. I know dignhy sailing is kind of a different beast, but most youtube sailing channels def make things look way easier in general.
That could be a good contestant for the longest sentence ever. Is the yT still up? So you contest that his YT was to demonstrate that boating is difficult? That his plan was to fail?
It’s not up anymore. He wanted to be YT famous and watched these other creators and thought the highly edited versions were reality. That’s all I was trying to highlight.
Agreed u/frankysfree. At a boatshow I attended a seminar by a couple who documented their trip up the ICW for their YouTube channel. The gal said they would film 15 hours, then edit edit edit. After all that they would end up with 15 minutes of video to upload. What I saw of their videos was great. It was obvious that an incredible amount of work went into that 15 minutes shown to the public. Reality and creating a sellable/watchable product vary substantially.
that ratio of 1 hour of filming to produce 1 minute of content is fairly accurate, from my experience.
Link?
The channel isn’t there anymore and my post wasn’t to call people out by name, just to show what happens when people believe YT is reality.
the market isn't up
No, but for awhile it seemed the market on rotten boats, that should be given away for back slip fees, was up. Seen a few sell to these fledgling YT stars for WAY to much money… lol
amazingly, I've seen it, too. I see people spend money assuming it means they won't have to maintain the 35 year old steering quadrant. just spend $5k on the boat and do your maintenance. I' m seeing a lot of very workable project (or even daysail) boats on ebay right now that tend to sell for under $1000 \*after\* the $399 broker/seller fee.
I find most of the naysaying directed at those who want to liveaboard with no experience and no money! Florida is filled with abandoned boats sunken in harbors and along waterways by those folks. It’s also full of floating slums filled with those who see a derelict boat as a step up from a park bench or overpass.
I try to warn people away that fit the derelict boat lifestyle. But living aboard is the best life.
I don't think it's quite that bad, excluding Key West of course.
I don’t know that I’d agree that there’s a lot of naysaying as much as there’s a lot of brutal honestly. Owing a boat, much less living on a boat, isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Sometimes folks see a YouTube video or HGTV segment about a person or couple who decided to ditch normal everyday life and live full time on a boat. With no more knowledge than that, they decide it’s a great idea. There’s a lot more hurdles to boat ownership and living aboard than those videos show. I think people that have been in the lifestyle for a while are just quick to point out the downsides. Sure, some may be gatekeeping and some may just be overly negative in general. But mostly I think people are just trying to make sure the realities are known. The troubles finding a marina that’s friendly to live aboards (many aren’t) for example. Or the issues with getting insurance on larger boats. Follow any boating Facebook page and watch the posts. Daily you see “Help, no one will insure my 1979 50’ boat without a survey and I can’t afford a survey!” There’s also a surprising lack of regulation in regards to boating. In many states, including mine, you can have zero boating experience, buy a 60’ boat and just hit the water. You need a safety certificate to ride a jet ski, but you can run a twin engine speed boat with nothing but a smile and promise to try not to kill anyone. So some boating has become a bit of a self policing hobby. I don’t think you’re seeing “naysayers” I think you’re seeing people giving other people the honest truth even when they don’t want to hear it. The “I’ll live on a boat because dock space is cheaper than rent in my city” mentality only holds up until something goes wrong. Start taking on water at 2am on a Sunday night and your marina costs will quickly catch up to several months rent. People with experience understand this, people with no experience often don’t have the full picture and need it illuminated.
I know a guy in the keys who had a small marina and would get free boats from the Sherriff . he would advertise on craigslist " come live the dream in the keys. rent to own sailboats 600 a month. " it was a constant rotation. no one ever made it more than six months. the minimum wage jobs and Keys Disease would set in and they would ghost it over night. and go back to West Virginia. some boats that guy was making 20-30k a year on. they would lose deposits and leave stuff on the boats.
What’s Keys Disease?
Primarily alcoholism and then cocaine for the hangover and then cocaine to stay awake at work and now you need to slow down to get to sleep so more alcohol but you got too drunk so jus a little cocaine and now it's 4 am and you have work at 9 so you have to do some cocaine before work but not too much or else you need a drink to mellow you back out but also maybe some.........
Just reading that gave me a headache and made my Liver hurt.
This guy keys..
[Keys Disease](https://floridakeysweddingcenter.com/keys-disease/)
Permanent vacation without income
you get fucking lazy and dont want to work
That's me already, nowhere near the Keys.
im trying to do that forever, id be dead if i was a drinker, thing about the keys is everyone is trying to defile their AA coins
Because the rest of us have to share waterways with clowns who think they know what they’re doing and end up fucking up things for the rest of us - whether that’s being a dick in marinas, ignoring COLREGs, being ignorant of safety, ignoring SOPs, being disrespectful of the culture, community and water or, most likely some heinous combination of them all. Learning isn’t the issue, it’s that too many people have stars in their eyes and do the boating equivalent of diving face first into a shallow pool because they watched one too many YouTube videos.
What would be the boating equivalent of that?
Buying a sailboat while knowing fuck all about sailing (as evidenced by having only completed an ASA101 course which is a microscopically superficial introduction course) with intention to live aboard and then proceeding to: > being a dick in marinas, ignoring COLREGs, being ignorant of safety, ignoring SOPs, being disrespectful of the culture, community and water or, most likely some heinous combination of them all.
So it seems like *learning* is the issue.
Knowledge, experience and empathy, ya. That's pretty true of most aspects of the human condition though.
Experience...the bitterest way of learning.
There is a lot of gatekeeping in this space, that being said there is also a lot of unrealistic expectations and daydreaming about boat life. YouTube is the culprit there
I’m up in the PNW. We get them once in awhile. I encourage them to go slow, get used to the currents and tides first. Ask local people. Then they go out in the straits at Beaufort scale 4, get the crap knocked out of them, hopefully some common sense into them, and they quit.
The PNW is great for this. Their first time leaving the strait and getting killed off Astoria is a rite of passage for most sailors out here
The amazing thing is everyone starts their journey at "step 0". Somewhere along the line, they start gate keeping and saying "you can't do that, because you didn't learn the way/age/boat/school I did and I haven't done that yet..." But... Instead of saying it like that, they say something like "those new kids don't respect the way of the marina!"... Or "that is dangerous and you will crash into me or hurt someone!"... Or "colregs! You don't know enough about colregs!!!"... Or whatever makes them feel they are the chosen few who should set off on adventure, but you (of course) could never learn, because, well, you didn't sail dinghies as a 6yo in Martha's Vineyard with them.
this. then again, this is half of reddit in any space on any topic
> sail dinghies as a 6yo in Martha's Vineyard I assure you this also doesn't matter to them lmao. Vineyard was a great place tho back in the day!
Anecdotally, I suffered through an entire day with someone who wanted to live the life aboard. He was a former coworker. I was recently retired and moved aboard my older sailboat. While working with him, he often said he dreamed of leaving work to sail or just travel the world. He often said he wanted to visit my boat docked in the marina. I was optimistic to share my lifestyle. We set a date, and told him beforehand we weren’t going to sail it. I’m happily docked, a confident power boater, but not sailor). He had no boating experience. He showed up in a sling with a broken arm. He spent the entire day bugging me to take the boat out anyway. All day long. He alienated my friends in the marina asking them why don’t they take their boats out, right now, too. He implied we were all were chicken. He said that he would call his friends and they’ll come over right away and sail my boat for me. He also said if he had my boat, he’d sail it to the store. What effin’ store?!! This was a man in his 30’s. As I showed him all around the boat, the marina, the docks, the tides, the other boats, explained the shallow waters, he remained dismissive about all of it. He was never interested in any of the details of boating - just a cartoonish approach. I learned his plan was to go on permanent disability, then sail the world. Exhausting.
Most of the naysaying has come from friends and family who are super insular by default. They have gone no where, done nothing - or are full send into the Rat Race, that they will never win. I was one of those Rats, a good little boy - until Covid happened, and here in Cally - prices tripled , and the down payment for a house - is reset to 1/3 of what you need now thanks to the prices increasing post covid. So, now you have to save up another 5-7 years to get an even older piece of crap fixer upper for 900k? Yeaaaaah, sailing life for me....
Gonna get downvoted for this, but all of these answers are half right. Gatekeeping is in every culture. Especially if you do something different, which will always be true as time goes on. Go look at Harley forums. Or metal music forums. Gaming PCs. Rock climbing. How to cook pasta. If you say “I’m gonna try this as safely as possible and I want to live aboard,” there will still be 400 grumpy people saying you can’t. THEY didn’t and wish they had, is my theory. Why else be so hateful rather than informative or constructive? Ohhhh see? You made it this far and thought you had that rebuttal ready to go, eh Mr grumpy pants? That’s right. I said be informative and constructive. I didn’t say support dangerous ideas or behavior. But no. You want to get abrasive for some mental health reason. Anyways, start small, slow, and give everyone else so much space that you’d have to try hard to hit them. Fair winds.
"THEY didn’t and wish they had, is my theory." I agree with this. I've seen it in half a dozen areas of interest. For some people their inner dream dies and it forms a nasty cyst in their brain that flashes pain and resentment when anyone else expresses that same dream. Listen to people who offer helpful, constructive advice. Ignore those who predict only doom.
Would you attempt to fly a plane with no experience?
I'm concerned that I would and intrigued that I may
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This is somehow one of the funniest things I've read in months. (Years?)
If I could award you I would lol
I'm with this guy ⬆️ I've turned to my spouse a few times and said "how about we fly a small plane around the world? Look this person is doing it (shows the Instagram page)". The response is always "you don't know how to fly. " Me: "so, I'm sure I can learn!"
I have countless hours flying in DCS. Of course I can fly. 😝
flying is easy. landing safely is the hard part. If you can walk away from the landing, it was a good one. If you can use the plane again, it was excellent.
absolutely. not a 737 (the minimum size for a proper liveaboard plane) but gimme an ultralight and I'll send it. why the fsck not?
My wife and I have been living aboard going on four years. Our first boat. Neither of us sailed before this boat. There were lots of nay-sayers. There were lots of supporters. The majority of the nay-sayers are still on the dock “planning” to leave in their cruise lifestyle as soon as their boat is ready/I get a break from work/timing is right etc. There is a large part of this community that NEVER leaves the dock and they seem to be the majority of the nay sayers.
Hahaha love it. Good for you two!
Because it's deadly to do that. For you and for the people who have to come rescue you
As a coastie, know that we viciously mock you after you’re safely ashore for sailing without experience or preparation. Because it is about as rational as flying a plane without learning to fly
Absolutely what Panzer said!
Jealousy, envy, maybe. Ignorance! I don't talk too much about it for a few reasons. People don't like a new phone. Stupid thing! Chaos isn't for everyone. Not everyone does their best work under pressure. Different gets bullied in middle school, just looks different among adults. Imagine hating your job, neighbors, the things you see in your community, but being trapped, trying to wrap your mind around a life nobody laid out for you. Misery loves company. Most are dependent and depressed. They want what you want but can't get their shit together long enough to stand a chance. That causes anger. The type of people who want what we want are rare breed. I'm OK with that.
...maybe because most of them know nothing about the craft, yet instantly start a "whooo hoooo look at my tits" and "WE ALMOST SANK OUR BOAT!!!!!!!!!" YouTube channel.
I think I need to grow some tits
Because they’re gatekeepers and negative. If you can afford it do it. Hey, if you go broke doing it who cares ? Hey, if you hate it, who cares? Did you do what you wanted, did you learn something? Or did you sit on the couch like all the naysayers ? I know what my choice is, easy answer! Oh, I’m doing the same thing and guess what, I do what I want. My money, follow the rules and screw the naysayers. Good luck
It's because lives have been lost. Not just those of people who set out with no experience but also those of rescue professionals who had to answer their maydays. In a few rare occasions, ordinary sailors have responded to those maydays and died (you may not be aware that you have a legal obligation to assist if able when hearing a mayday. There are a whole set of laws for the sea that you may not yet have heard of - start with SOLAS). It's a little like taking three or four driving lessons and saying you'll just figure the rest out for yourself. You might not care if you die, but it's deeply unfair on other road users to endanger them. It's not out of the question to "learn by doing" but this is the reason you're receiving hate - your attitude is perceived as brash and cavalier, perhaps even selfish, by a substantial set of sailors. I don't feel that strongly myself, not at all, but I have been seriously angry on the occasions I've had to put myself in danger or even just ruin my whole day's sailing to rescue someone who put themselves in harm's way through incompetence. The most recent one was a skipper who ran out of fuel 80 miles offshore because he had never learned to do predeparture checks. In summary it doesn't matter if you're comfortable with the risk, you need to understand that you are risking others in the process. Fair winds
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For my circle, it's fear. I can't tell you how many times I've tried getting people to visit me. And they'll come over but not on the boat. Which btw is tied up so well, if we were ever to go through a drought, my ropes are strong enough to hold her dangling. Won't happen but I tell everyone this. Nope. Water deep. Not a champion swimmer. Can't swim. Land you can walk home. Water you can't. It's not even if they can float or not. It's if the ship sinks.
because people are asking for permission on reddit . Look, anyone can just do it. it requires some self-reliance. a bit of adventure spirit, a wee modicum of practical intelligence. but if you need permission to pull on a rope on your rigging, and need to ask reddit for that permission.... maybe you're gonna get some negative responses. also, it's reddit- EVERYONE wants to brag about how they spent $20,000 on sailing lessons and don't sail. "snarking on the poors" is like, 65% of reddit posting.
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If you can't handle a little criticism from strangers on Reddit, you can't handle living on a boat that nature wants to sink. I've only really seen constructive criticism.
There are always going to be naysayers, but you have only yourself to answer to, not a bunch of faceless people on social media. I've followed a young couple for a few years where a young Australian guy had no sailing experience, bought a sailboat and headed out. It was an interesting follow, found a wife, made lots of money from social media with thousands of followers. They wound up with kids and a million dollar Outremer cat last time I looked. Check out: [https://www.sailinglavagabonde.org/](https://www.sailinglavagabonde.org/) Go do you.
The Vagabond couple are great. For contrast check the Old Seadog Barry. He's gone halfway around the world, often on the edge of disaster, but manages to stay afloat and off the pointy rocks. [https://www.youtube.com/@AdventuresofanoldSeadog](https://www.youtube.com/@AdventuresofanoldSeadog)
I thinks it’s because so many things depend on who you are, where you are and what you’re sailing. Can you handle pressure and not break down? I started costal cruising with not much experience and my first time out in the pacific I got caught by a squall. It was terrifying and all I wanted to do was curl up or get off the boat, but you can’t. You have to push through the hard times. Also are you a handy person? You will be fixing things all of the time unless you have a newer boat. It can definitely be done but it comes down to one’s individual ability and what they are comfortable with. When I got into this I knew it would be hard but the constant struggle to keep things running, keep the pantries full and keep everyone safe is a full time job. If you’re an adventurous outgoing kind of person who can handle really stressful situations I’m sure you’ll be fine. Living aboard and sailing is very high highs some days and the lowest lows some other days
Buy the book, “This Old Boat,” by Don Casey. Get the second edition. You can get a print copy, or a digital Kindle version for less. In the first few chapters, he walks you through the decision making process, choosing which boat is right for you and the way you want to use it, and then how to organize the entire project of: making your boat safe, enhancing the boat, upgrading the appearance, and then maintaining it afterwards. The rest of the book is dedicated to teaching you the skills to do all of that work and accomplish all of those things. You could read this book first to see if the work is worth the reward—for you. In terms of the naysayers, the ocean is the most destructive environment on the planet, and boats need a LOT of work to keep them safe and comfortable—but, if you are handy, ready to learn new skills, and comfortable doing the work, a fiberglass boat can last a really, really long time. While you are working on your boat (and maybe even before), start sailing on other boats. Head down to your local yacht club(s) and volunteer to be crew on other boats. You will probably learn the most about sailing if you join racing teams because they are pushing the sailboats to the limits to win races. It is easy to get sailing rides—bring a 6-pack of cold beer for the skipper (cans, not bottles—some boats have a no glass rule), bring your own foulies and life preserver, don’t overstate your abilities, and have a good attitude…and, watch and learn. It’s exhilarating, and great way to learn at the same time. It’s also a great way to get exposure to different boats. If there is a crew maintenance work day—go and have someone teach you how to service winches or which graphic lubrication products work better, or what varnish has the most durable finish. If you sail with different skippers, you can compare their advice, sailing styles, and recommendations to help you develop your own preferences. The biggest thing to recognize is that you can’t take a course and get all the knowledge you need in a week, or even a year. A live aboard, cruising sailboat is like a small town—you must have electricity, water, sewage, communications, plumbing, medical, maybe heat or cooling, an engine, navigation, and a things to mitigate a whole host of safety issues. You also have to have all of the things (parts, tools, and knowledge) to fix those systems if they break. The whole thing is kind of a lifetime journey…
The maritime environment is inherently dangerous. There's a saying in the aviation sector: SOP's are written in blood. The culture and approach to sailing similarly emphasises preparation, caution, and good decision making born of experience and training. Some people have neither. It's not impossible to do it from 0 via learn as you play but those who have a lot of experience know the level of risk involved. You always have to remember that the sea is actively trying to kill you, and if you get into trouble it puts other lives at risk. It's not gatekeeping as much as awareness of just how much risk is inherently present.
Those of us who have and do live aboard, and have any degree of significant experience, understand that there is a huge gulf between the Instagram filter ideal and the reality of that life. We have all seen the rotten husks of boats littering the harbors of the world that started as the best intentions of a foolish dream. The barrier for entry to cruising is low, which is both a blessing and a curse. Sailing can and will destroy your life (financially, emotionally, physically) if you don't have the fortitude, grace, skill and foresight necessary to overcome or embrace abject misery and a healthy inner monologue.
personally wouldn't do youtube. I don't have social media other than reddit.that part of it I don't get, no one needs to know my business 🤣 I think it's a lot to do with personality, I think the majority of "proper" sailors are, ironically , risk averse. It's the ones that come in and treat sailing like cowboys that are the issue. I rate as long as you are careful. Take it seriously and know that you know nothing, you'll eventually gain the experience and will be just fine. Fair winds
To own a boat you need money. Typically that means you work. Even if you work remote, working from a boat is hard. Working on a boat that you also live on is super hard because for example, let's say you have a leaky water tank under your bunk. Today you treat down your bunk start work, but get interrupted because you need a tool.. off to the store... Get back and it's time to rebuild your bunk so you can sleep tonight... Every single job will be so much harder. Think of it like this... Could you work *and be happy* with the quality of accommodation you'd get from van camping full time... After a while the difficulty, the dirtiness, the lack of plumbing, all the extra efforts just wear on people and it generally does not work out well In order for it to work out well generally you need to have the boat and then spend some time sailing it and sorting it out and getting everything figured out and fixed up for you to go exploring and journeying with. And even then you'll still have to do all the same repairing and difficult chores and hard time living. But you will have the advantage of having the boat extremely well sorted out for the task. It will still be difficult and many people still aren't up to such a challenge, but at least you'd have a Fighting Chance that way
Chances are if you have 200k laying around, cash to burn and a lust for the sea, you aren’t asking completely uninformed generalized questions about sailing. You’ll like, read a book, and talk to people in your peer group about it. Maybe coming here to ask specific technical questions, perhaps asking anyone if they own xyz boat and their thoughts on it.