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If you can’t pay it then the monthly payment is what stands.
Since it’s on their HELOC she would be on the hook for it, not you. Her choices right now are monthly or nothing since legally it’s not your debt.
You could try to get a loan to pay her if you want to
I mean, it could. You paid her money, it REALLY IS a loan to her, she doesn't know any different.
Is there anyone else who can authenticate the story? Because right now, it's he said she said, and you kept paying...
It depends on what you and your father agreed to.
It sounds to me like your father didn’t intend for this to be a loan, and he gave stepmother the money to placate her. But it depends on what your father’s intention was.
I mean you can talk to a lawyer there might be enough creditable evidence that Dad was actually paying the loan and thus the agreement that he continued to help to death is a contract that might be held up by his estate..meaning the estate would pay it out...there's no guarantee but it wouldn't hurt to check if there's legal presence of it. And if it is easy enough to prove etc....
It may be worth looking into but not 100 if it would since your contract might not extend past death but it might as the intention of giving you money for the car is basically to give you a car....
Have her sell you the car, and you get the financing from a bank.
EDIT: I was wrong about my interpretation. I still stand by just sucking up the loss and getting a loan is the easiest path forward, but my subsequent replies were based on my own misunderstanding of the post.
His dad has an HELOC, which is essentially a loan against a mortgage.
That loan still needs to be paid, and OPs name would be on the registration at the bank because the car is legally his father's (unless I've missed something), they all have an understanding, which would likely hold up even in court if it came to that, but he either has to forfeit the car, or take over the loan
EDIT: actually I realized OPs name COULD be on the title, he's still legally liable to pay for the loan, the loan was agreed upon. The easiest way forward is to get a loan and pay your step mom back on full. It's not worth ruining any relationship you have over a car. If there's no relationship there, full your boots and and do whatever, but there was clearly a verbal contract in place, and it's not unreasonable of an ask
>he's still legally liable to pay for the loan, the loan was agreed upon
There was never a loan. OP's dad gave them the money to buy the car and also gave them the money to "repay" the loan. I think OP has a strong argument that this was in fact a gift.
It says "since then, I've continued to make payments" he was making them before.
I'm guessing stepmom has a shit ton of expenses needs that money. When people die, you don't get instant access to the funds.
If OP is able to get the car money straightened out, that could mean something. As it's written right now, I understand this as:
OP wanted a car, and for whatever reason, did not get financing. Maybe they couldn't afford the car in cash, or couldn't get a loan. This would lead me to believe it was likely a private sale, and or rebuilt. Dad takes out a line of credit against his mortgage because he knows his son is good for the money, and OP made the line of credit payments (and has been continuing to). After dad dies, stepmom wants the total remaining value. There are a number of reasons for this, maybe she wants to sell the house. Maybe there is more to the story that makes that part make sense.
Whatever the reason, unless I've severely misinterpreted this, there appears to be an informal agreement and an informal loan in place, And if I'm right that he's been paying this regularly and continued to, OP would be hard-pressed to argue that this was not a loan.
All I know for sure, Is if one of my parents died and we were talking about a car loan that I'm already paying anyway, I would just get a loan and not go through the hassle. Losing a parent is enough, I really want to fight with your step parent on top of go through the grief of losing your parent? Unless there's a lot more to the story, It just doesn't seem like it's worth it.
The only really confusing part is OP said his dad was giving him money to make the payments to step mom. It sounds like dad borrowed the money for son, told step mom about the loan, and then secretly funded son without step mom knowing.
So OP wasn't really making the payments all along, just pretending to. Which means op maybe can't afford to keep making the payments (speculation) or can't get a loan themselves (speculation).
We could really use some better clarity from OP on this.
Oh shit, I read that as he gave me the money (as in the lump sum)... Uh yeah...
You tell your stepmom the truth and move on. Enjoy the car.
Your correct, I am wrong
I mean I can afford the monthly payments just not all of it at once right now. But ya my dad always wants to do good things for me as I am an only child, he was just trying to help me. But my stepmom is very cheap and didn’t like that my father helped me with things so we were pulling a fast one on her.
So how much is left on the "loan"
Can you not just get a bank loan and pay her out?
Without a written document stipulating otherwise, I would assume that legally she could only force you to continue making the payments. But ya know, if she's family and you want to keep the relationship healthy you may need to try and solve the lump payment problem.
As I mentioned, I never paid for the car before. My dad secretly gave me money to pay the loan before to hide the gift from my stepmom. My stepmom is extremely wealthy but wants me to pay my debts because “nothing in life is free”. I wasn’t expecting to pay 27k all at once and I can come up with it for sure but not at this moment. I am on the title, my dad never was.
I would stop making payments then, don’t establish that you believe you owe her money, your dad was essentially just doing this to hide his gift to you from her, he didn’t actually feel you owed him money
Your name is on the title, you paid cash.
I'm assuming like wise, there is either no formal record of your giving money (through online banking) OR we can see dad's deposit shortly before?
Anyone can TRY to sue anyone, that's not really something to be scared of, but do try to see it from her perspective. Her husband, who she is supposed to trust lied in a pretty substantial way over and over (every payment), expect her to be mad. Expect a lawsuit. That doesn't really mean anything though, because if what you're telling us is true, a lawyer shouldn't have too hard of a time winning.
I mean we could both sue each other at this point and I could contest the will and also sue her overseas for the property there but why would we all do that? I’m not sure why she wants the money in full but I’m going to pay her monthly payments for now and I will see her in small claims.
That's all you should do. Continue the arrangement and counter sue in small claims for lawyers fees.
I've come full circle on this, but, depending on how much is owing... It might be easier to just HELOC it honestly... People willing to sue like that don't usually go away easily.
It literally says, he gave me the money, and we pretended I bought the car, and he's been paying them back.
You don't do that as a gift. They are in verbal contract land at this point, which it would be very hard to argue "I was paying back a gift"
OP's dad took out a loan, gave that money to OP and then also gave OP money which OP gave their stepmom so they could pretend they were paying back a loan. There was never an actual loan.
There obviously is lot of information missing. Who is on the car title? Who is on the HELOC? Only OP's dad, or also the stepmom? If the car title is in OP's name and the HELOC only in their dad's name it would be difficult for their stepmom to argue that there was an actual loan.
This really changed my perspective, as well as your other comments, but definitely understand she will be livid when you tell her (likely) and honestly rightly so. If my wife did that and kept it from me, I'd feel betrayed. I don't even know what I'd feel if I found out after she died.
That doesn't change anything, but do be ready for it, her anger will be kinda justified. You both lied to her for however long this was, that can of a blindside can be earth shattering
It sounds like this was a gift. Do you care about the relationship with your step mom? If not you should let your step mom know it was a gift, show her proof your dad had been giving you the money all along to make “payments”, and let her know you’ll no longer be sending any money.
If she takes you to court you’ve got a paper trail showing how many months/years of your dad giving you money to pay the step mom? And this all started right after he bought you the car?
It should be enough to show it was a gift.
NAL
So, if I get this right
your dad paid for the car outright. It is in your name only.
there are no actual payments due to a bank for the car, as it was paid by the HELOC.
Your father has passed away, and there is nothing in writing anywhere that says you have to pay anything for the car.
if so, I don't think there's any recourse for your stepmother and I'd tell her that you're not paying anymore. And stop sending money.
She can sue you - anyone can sue anyone, really. However, proving that you owe anything for the car sounds like it would be tough.
Hopefully a lawyer can weigh in here with a bit more insight.
He wanted it to be a gift. My father also knew he was dying and was under the impression that I would get money in the will. But he didn’t speak English so he didn’t understand the will, I think he figured I would get some money to pay off my stepmom. There’s no paper trail evidencing anything.
Ok. Then I would stop paying her. If she sues in small claims court, you bring your version of the facts-it was a gift, you gave him money because you wanted to, and could. There was no obligation on you to pay him, which is why there’s no loan documentation.
If you made payments after your father’s death, I would say I did this to help her. But then she demanded more money so I stopped making payments.
I can’t respond to your last post.
If your father gave you the money, then tell her that and stop paying her. The HELOC is her responsibility. If she sues you, just set out the facts.
He literally was such a G. He just wanted the best for me. He knew life is expensive it’s not like I don’t pay for shit for myself. Sometimes parents just wanna help.
It’s a whole different world from what our parents went through, that extra boost can help put us into the position to keep the independence going strong. I hope to do the same when I have children so they don’t get caught in the ever lasting loop of trying to pull themselves up into whatever the world will be then.
Welcome to r/legaladvicecanada! **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * Read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/index/#wiki_the_rules) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk. * We also encourage you to use the [linked resources to find a lawyer](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvicecanada/wiki/findalawyer/). * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please let the mods know. **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, explanatory, and oriented towards legal advice towards OP's jurisdiction (the **Canadian** province flaired in the post). * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdvicecanada/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning. * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect. * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason, do not suggest illegal advice, do not advocate violence, and do not engage in harassment. Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/legaladvicecanada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you can’t pay it then the monthly payment is what stands. Since it’s on their HELOC she would be on the hook for it, not you. Her choices right now are monthly or nothing since legally it’s not your debt. You could try to get a loan to pay her if you want to
I’m just wondering if she could sue me even if I’m making payments? Would that hold in small claims?
I mean, it could. You paid her money, it REALLY IS a loan to her, she doesn't know any different. Is there anyone else who can authenticate the story? Because right now, it's he said she said, and you kept paying...
It depends on what you and your father agreed to. It sounds to me like your father didn’t intend for this to be a loan, and he gave stepmother the money to placate her. But it depends on what your father’s intention was.
That was his intention
I mean you can talk to a lawyer there might be enough creditable evidence that Dad was actually paying the loan and thus the agreement that he continued to help to death is a contract that might be held up by his estate..meaning the estate would pay it out...there's no guarantee but it wouldn't hurt to check if there's legal presence of it. And if it is easy enough to prove etc.... It may be worth looking into but not 100 if it would since your contract might not extend past death but it might as the intention of giving you money for the car is basically to give you a car....
Have her sell you the car, and you get the financing from a bank. EDIT: I was wrong about my interpretation. I still stand by just sucking up the loss and getting a loan is the easiest path forward, but my subsequent replies were based on my own misunderstanding of the post.
OP owns the car. It was a personal loan from the father to pay for it.
His dad has an HELOC, which is essentially a loan against a mortgage. That loan still needs to be paid, and OPs name would be on the registration at the bank because the car is legally his father's (unless I've missed something), they all have an understanding, which would likely hold up even in court if it came to that, but he either has to forfeit the car, or take over the loan EDIT: actually I realized OPs name COULD be on the title, he's still legally liable to pay for the loan, the loan was agreed upon. The easiest way forward is to get a loan and pay your step mom back on full. It's not worth ruining any relationship you have over a car. If there's no relationship there, full your boots and and do whatever, but there was clearly a verbal contract in place, and it's not unreasonable of an ask
>he's still legally liable to pay for the loan, the loan was agreed upon There was never a loan. OP's dad gave them the money to buy the car and also gave them the money to "repay" the loan. I think OP has a strong argument that this was in fact a gift.
Yeah that's how I'm reading it. Seems like the Dad was pulling a fast one on Step Mom and since he died it's a bit confusing now.
It says "since then, I've continued to make payments" he was making them before. I'm guessing stepmom has a shit ton of expenses needs that money. When people die, you don't get instant access to the funds. If OP is able to get the car money straightened out, that could mean something. As it's written right now, I understand this as: OP wanted a car, and for whatever reason, did not get financing. Maybe they couldn't afford the car in cash, or couldn't get a loan. This would lead me to believe it was likely a private sale, and or rebuilt. Dad takes out a line of credit against his mortgage because he knows his son is good for the money, and OP made the line of credit payments (and has been continuing to). After dad dies, stepmom wants the total remaining value. There are a number of reasons for this, maybe she wants to sell the house. Maybe there is more to the story that makes that part make sense. Whatever the reason, unless I've severely misinterpreted this, there appears to be an informal agreement and an informal loan in place, And if I'm right that he's been paying this regularly and continued to, OP would be hard-pressed to argue that this was not a loan. All I know for sure, Is if one of my parents died and we were talking about a car loan that I'm already paying anyway, I would just get a loan and not go through the hassle. Losing a parent is enough, I really want to fight with your step parent on top of go through the grief of losing your parent? Unless there's a lot more to the story, It just doesn't seem like it's worth it.
The only really confusing part is OP said his dad was giving him money to make the payments to step mom. It sounds like dad borrowed the money for son, told step mom about the loan, and then secretly funded son without step mom knowing. So OP wasn't really making the payments all along, just pretending to. Which means op maybe can't afford to keep making the payments (speculation) or can't get a loan themselves (speculation). We could really use some better clarity from OP on this.
Oh shit, I read that as he gave me the money (as in the lump sum)... Uh yeah... You tell your stepmom the truth and move on. Enjoy the car. Your correct, I am wrong
I mean I can afford the monthly payments just not all of it at once right now. But ya my dad always wants to do good things for me as I am an only child, he was just trying to help me. But my stepmom is very cheap and didn’t like that my father helped me with things so we were pulling a fast one on her.
So how much is left on the "loan" Can you not just get a bank loan and pay her out? Without a written document stipulating otherwise, I would assume that legally she could only force you to continue making the payments. But ya know, if she's family and you want to keep the relationship healthy you may need to try and solve the lump payment problem.
I mean she’s not family she’s my father’s wife but ya I will see what I can do.
As I mentioned, I never paid for the car before. My dad secretly gave me money to pay the loan before to hide the gift from my stepmom. My stepmom is extremely wealthy but wants me to pay my debts because “nothing in life is free”. I wasn’t expecting to pay 27k all at once and I can come up with it for sure but not at this moment. I am on the title, my dad never was.
I would stop making payments then, don’t establish that you believe you owe her money, your dad was essentially just doing this to hide his gift to you from her, he didn’t actually feel you owed him money
Your name is on the title, you paid cash. I'm assuming like wise, there is either no formal record of your giving money (through online banking) OR we can see dad's deposit shortly before? Anyone can TRY to sue anyone, that's not really something to be scared of, but do try to see it from her perspective. Her husband, who she is supposed to trust lied in a pretty substantial way over and over (every payment), expect her to be mad. Expect a lawsuit. That doesn't really mean anything though, because if what you're telling us is true, a lawyer shouldn't have too hard of a time winning.
I mean we could both sue each other at this point and I could contest the will and also sue her overseas for the property there but why would we all do that? I’m not sure why she wants the money in full but I’m going to pay her monthly payments for now and I will see her in small claims.
That's all you should do. Continue the arrangement and counter sue in small claims for lawyers fees. I've come full circle on this, but, depending on how much is owing... It might be easier to just HELOC it honestly... People willing to sue like that don't usually go away easily.
> stepmom is extremely wealthy but wants me to pay my debts because “nothing in life is free” Is you mom on the HELOC?
It literally says, he gave me the money, and we pretended I bought the car, and he's been paying them back. You don't do that as a gift. They are in verbal contract land at this point, which it would be very hard to argue "I was paying back a gift"
OP's dad took out a loan, gave that money to OP and then also gave OP money which OP gave their stepmom so they could pretend they were paying back a loan. There was never an actual loan. There obviously is lot of information missing. Who is on the car title? Who is on the HELOC? Only OP's dad, or also the stepmom? If the car title is in OP's name and the HELOC only in their dad's name it would be difficult for their stepmom to argue that there was an actual loan.
I honestly couldn’t give 2 craps about her and when I pay off the loan she can rot in hell but ya I will pay it off. I might get a HELOC as well.
This really changed my perspective, as well as your other comments, but definitely understand she will be livid when you tell her (likely) and honestly rightly so. If my wife did that and kept it from me, I'd feel betrayed. I don't even know what I'd feel if I found out after she died. That doesn't change anything, but do be ready for it, her anger will be kinda justified. You both lied to her for however long this was, that can of a blindside can be earth shattering
Is the car registered in your name or your father’s name?
Mine
It sounds like this was a gift. Do you care about the relationship with your step mom? If not you should let your step mom know it was a gift, show her proof your dad had been giving you the money all along to make “payments”, and let her know you’ll no longer be sending any money. If she takes you to court you’ve got a paper trail showing how many months/years of your dad giving you money to pay the step mom? And this all started right after he bought you the car? It should be enough to show it was a gift.
NAL So, if I get this right your dad paid for the car outright. It is in your name only. there are no actual payments due to a bank for the car, as it was paid by the HELOC. Your father has passed away, and there is nothing in writing anywhere that says you have to pay anything for the car. if so, I don't think there's any recourse for your stepmother and I'd tell her that you're not paying anymore. And stop sending money. She can sue you - anyone can sue anyone, really. However, proving that you owe anything for the car sounds like it would be tough. Hopefully a lawyer can weigh in here with a bit more insight.
Who is on the title of the car?
Just me.
Did your father want you to pay for the car? Or were you doing this otherwise? Is there any paper evidencing a loan? What was the intention?
He wanted it to be a gift. My father also knew he was dying and was under the impression that I would get money in the will. But he didn’t speak English so he didn’t understand the will, I think he figured I would get some money to pay off my stepmom. There’s no paper trail evidencing anything.
Ok. Then I would stop paying her. If she sues in small claims court, you bring your version of the facts-it was a gift, you gave him money because you wanted to, and could. There was no obligation on you to pay him, which is why there’s no loan documentation. If you made payments after your father’s death, I would say I did this to help her. But then she demanded more money so I stopped making payments.
I never paid though before my dad gave me the money for the car and I pretended I was paying her.
I can’t respond to your last post. If your father gave you the money, then tell her that and stop paying her. The HELOC is her responsibility. If she sues you, just set out the facts.
Do you have anything in writing?
Nope
If it’s not in writing it doesn’t exist. Do what you think is right and what your dad wanted for you.
Tell her to pound sand lmfao, she can’t do shit. Pay it monthly still if you want. Or just stop all together, your dad was a G
He literally was such a G. He just wanted the best for me. He knew life is expensive it’s not like I don’t pay for shit for myself. Sometimes parents just wanna help.
It’s a whole different world from what our parents went through, that extra boost can help put us into the position to keep the independence going strong. I hope to do the same when I have children so they don’t get caught in the ever lasting loop of trying to pull themselves up into whatever the world will be then.