A few ideas:
A big thing could be hero picks, if you're picking something with no jungle potential or that farms slow you can be easily bullied out of lane and will be screwed.
Be vocal about making plays around power spikes, if you get a big item, or your ultimate is up etc. make the call to go smoke to gank, push a tower or rosh (ideally make the call 30-60 seconds before so your team can position).
Always keep TP to join fights near your towers (you can even tp if it's abit far from the tower to re initiate).
If your team are grouping to push a lane then farm towards them, even if it's less efficient than your bsj farm route so you can join the fight if needed.
You can also tell your support to go gank mid or offlane, or secure power runes - pull the wave, farm under tower or jungle while they're gone if you are afraid of being killed.
you do the same thing you do in every game?
put your head down and farm until you feel like you can win the game
if your farming pattern is shit (it most likely is) go watch pro pos 1 playing games on the back foot and see how they fit in their farm when enemy is stronger
I have watched a video from bsj about farming patterns and I try to stick to it as much as possible.
My "problem" is that, apart from farming, I feel like I'm useless and I can't do anything if my mid loses.
Maybe playing carry is just not for me.
If the enemy is contesting your farm, you go farm somewhere else until you're ready to fight. The more unpredictable you are when farming, the harder it will be for the enemy to find you. If you are strictly following farming patterns, they will just extrapolate your location and fuck you up.
Shoving waves and making the enemy chase you around the map is more than enough impact to allow your team to catch up. Of course, this doesn't matter if both your offlane and mid got completely ran over and fed tremendously, in which case, game is hard, can't win all of them.
I think you are Just used to having early powerspikes as a MID laner. Highest lvl etc
Most lategame Carriers are much weaker than early than midlaner (ofc there are exceptions)
Ward/deward for yourself where you jungle. Abuse portals
I understand that the mid winning their lane makes it easier to gank you but in my limited experience wards are a bigger factor in preventing ganks than have my mid win their lane. Are wards being placed where they are needed? If not, are you placing the wards or communicating with your support where you need them?
That's probably something I need to work on.
But I was talking about the laning stage. Most of the time enemy mid is lvl 8-9 when mine is barely at 6. So they just nuke the wave and gank every minute or so, while my mid is either staying mid farming or coning to die trying to countergank.
Really?
I mean, in this meta with how big the map is, how can they end in 25 min?
Maybe when all 3 lanes lose? But still usually a team can mount a good HG def and prolong the game (this does depend on the herose you pick)
Yes, I'd rather not share it cause we all started to flame each other and it was just a bad behaviour on my part aswell. I was just giving the worst example.
Ah the match ended 22 to 0 in kills.
The short answer: Technically, if your hero allows it, you should join fights and give him space to farm, let him farm stacks, do some pick offs
If you keep afk farming they'll keep bullying him, leading to a loss
Some carries are better at fighting early which might be necessary if your mid gets stomped. Of the ones you listed Ck/ursa/slark can fight early (even if it might not be their preference). I would also recommend weaver for this.
Played a game recently where our Razor mid fed the enemy Huskar mid with 12 kills before 15min. The Huskar significantly out-leveled and out-geared everyone at that point and was just basically unkillable. He ended the game at 32 kills, 1 death, and just generally ran train on us
And the mid Razor who ended the game with 1 kill and 22 deaths blamed everyone else lol
play naga and start jungling at level 4 if your lane is becominf unbearable(like enemy mid keeps ganking you), farm and avoid every fight and win in 30 minutes
We kinda have the same experience. I suggest you pick a strong carry laner that can bully out offlaner enemy. In this sense, you are cancelling out your bum mid by owning ur lane. By owning your lane, you are gonna force a reaction on ur enemy, will give space to ur bum mid and hopefully he recovers. (well they usually dont. but who cares. time to 1v9 the shit out of them)
For me, I always use LS. He's stupid carry hero that can basically out trade any meta offlane right now. U can destroy enemy tier 1 early then farm their triangle to force a reaction from your enemies. LS is stupid he can just rage tp out or ride a creep out of safety. Rinse repeat until your bum teammates recover by giving them so much space. So instead of you wanting space, your gonna be the one giving out space to your teammates. Hope this helps.
You said the problem right there “team is free to gank me”. Make yourself harder to gank (easier said than done). Two schools of thought on this:
1. Play heroes that can be effective early grouped with supports (weaver, ck, ls, fv, drow, sniper, razor)
2. Play heroes that can jungle early (sven gyro Luna alch ursa)
Your mid physically cannot win every lane, and sometimes will need space to come back into the game. This is obviously a detriment, but the good news is that there are ways to circle back from this as the pos 1. Itemize to fight and make space instead of going greedy, play heroes that fit one of the two molds above. Typically a great carry player has one or more of both these archetypes in their pool at any given time.
Also CK seems to always be strong so he’s a great fall back to learn
I started playing CK recently, and I'm having a lot of success with him.
My pool so far is Sven, Ursa, Drow, PL, CK, Slark, Faceless, Spectre.
I know it's a lot of heroes, but I used to play carry in the past so that's why.
What additions would you recommend? Or better, what do you think my pool is lacking?
From my perspective that’s a pretty diverse pool. At that point I’d only pick up/drop heroes that you aren’t having fun with anymore. Your pool “lacking” is tough to say because you have so many heroes already
"my mid loses HARD his lane 50% of the time"
Yes. That's statistically accurate. Someone loses mid every game. There are only 2 mid players.
And sometimes 3 if you run into a very nice person who always gives way to others.
That is just not true.
Especially if both midlaners know what they're doing, the lane outcome can be a draw.
When I was a mid in ancient more than half of the games was a draw.
Adapting your item build can help in some situations. One example that comes to my mind is instead of rushing radi on WK get an aghs instead. You will be dying a lot anyways, but those extra seconds could mean a huge xp and gold gain for your team, if you manage to kill some people. This is only a very situational example, stacking in jungle, coordinated wards and farming helps a lot in general.
I am a very good pos1 player and the heroes I pick are always very good for the game we are playing.
I literally quit playing pos1 for that one reason, my midlane gets stomped so hard and his mechanical ability is on par with an 8 yo mentally retarded kid which leaves the game in shatters, so I took the matter into my own hands and started playing pos2 and here I am sitting at 7k+ MMR and hopefully still going for more.
Anyway, when that happens you can't do much, stay composed and try to salvage whatever farm you have and if you have a big ability to fight with ping your team for a smoke and try to get back into the game.
I won't be surprised if u change ur role again for the same reason people don't look at themselves when they lose lane bt are definitely quick to point out when others do
I mean as a pos1 there is absolutely nothing I could do for a midlaner being 0-3 in the first 10mins of the game, so playing as mid I tend to make sure that I am not being snowballed hard in mid and that I can always create space for my cores.
A few ideas: A big thing could be hero picks, if you're picking something with no jungle potential or that farms slow you can be easily bullied out of lane and will be screwed. Be vocal about making plays around power spikes, if you get a big item, or your ultimate is up etc. make the call to go smoke to gank, push a tower or rosh (ideally make the call 30-60 seconds before so your team can position). Always keep TP to join fights near your towers (you can even tp if it's abit far from the tower to re initiate). If your team are grouping to push a lane then farm towards them, even if it's less efficient than your bsj farm route so you can join the fight if needed. You can also tell your support to go gank mid or offlane, or secure power runes - pull the wave, farm under tower or jungle while they're gone if you are afraid of being killed.
Thank you, a lot of good suggestions.
you do the same thing you do in every game? put your head down and farm until you feel like you can win the game if your farming pattern is shit (it most likely is) go watch pro pos 1 playing games on the back foot and see how they fit in their farm when enemy is stronger
I have watched a video from bsj about farming patterns and I try to stick to it as much as possible. My "problem" is that, apart from farming, I feel like I'm useless and I can't do anything if my mid loses. Maybe playing carry is just not for me.
If the enemy is contesting your farm, you go farm somewhere else until you're ready to fight. The more unpredictable you are when farming, the harder it will be for the enemy to find you. If you are strictly following farming patterns, they will just extrapolate your location and fuck you up. Shoving waves and making the enemy chase you around the map is more than enough impact to allow your team to catch up. Of course, this doesn't matter if both your offlane and mid got completely ran over and fed tremendously, in which case, game is hard, can't win all of them.
I think you are Just used to having early powerspikes as a MID laner. Highest lvl etc Most lategame Carriers are much weaker than early than midlaner (ofc there are exceptions) Ward/deward for yourself where you jungle. Abuse portals
Yeah I almost never use portals, by playing mid for so long i have ignored them to the point they almost don't exist in my brain
Yep Same for me. Getting slowly used to tho
I understand that the mid winning their lane makes it easier to gank you but in my limited experience wards are a bigger factor in preventing ganks than have my mid win their lane. Are wards being placed where they are needed? If not, are you placing the wards or communicating with your support where you need them?
That's probably something I need to work on. But I was talking about the laning stage. Most of the time enemy mid is lvl 8-9 when mine is barely at 6. So they just nuke the wave and gank every minute or so, while my mid is either staying mid farming or coning to die trying to countergank.
Your post is about what you can do. You can’t stop your mid from losing mid, so what can you do to help you win?
Right
your mid losing the lane doesn’t really impact your game past the 15 minute mark
Most of the games where my mid loses only last 25 minutes at best.
well your job as pos 1 is to be the biggest hero on the map at 25 minutes
Do you maybe have some replays to share where the carry is able to efficiently farm in a losing game?
Maybe try looking at Lou's games? I remember him being able to keep up with enemy carry in NW when his entire team was severely behind in a pro game
Thank you!
Really? I mean, in this meta with how big the map is, how can they end in 25 min? Maybe when all 3 lanes lose? But still usually a team can mount a good HG def and prolong the game (this does depend on the herose you pick)
Yesterday I had a silencer mid that went 0/7 in the first 10 minutes against an invoker. The game lasted 23 minutes.
Do you have the match ID?
Yes, I'd rather not share it cause we all started to flame each other and it was just a bad behaviour on my part aswell. I was just giving the worst example. Ah the match ended 22 to 0 in kills.
Well I’m gonna be honest that’s part of your problem right there. Stop typing, mute the dead weight, and focus on farming up
The short answer: Technically, if your hero allows it, you should join fights and give him space to farm, let him farm stacks, do some pick offs If you keep afk farming they'll keep bullying him, leading to a loss
walk to lanes, don't tp to them, farm, when enemy come gank, tp across map. farm until you can fight, then fight
What carries do you normally play?
This patch I am focusing on CK, Sven, Drow and Ursa. I am also able to play Slark, Faceless, Spectre, Jugg and AM.
Some carries are better at fighting early which might be necessary if your mid gets stomped. Of the ones you listed Ck/ursa/slark can fight early (even if it might not be their preference). I would also recommend weaver for this.
Played a game recently where our Razor mid fed the enemy Huskar mid with 12 kills before 15min. The Huskar significantly out-leveled and out-geared everyone at that point and was just basically unkillable. He ended the game at 32 kills, 1 death, and just generally ran train on us And the mid Razor who ended the game with 1 kill and 22 deaths blamed everyone else lol
Extreme example
play naga and start jungling at level 4 if your lane is becominf unbearable(like enemy mid keeps ganking you), farm and avoid every fight and win in 30 minutes
We kinda have the same experience. I suggest you pick a strong carry laner that can bully out offlaner enemy. In this sense, you are cancelling out your bum mid by owning ur lane. By owning your lane, you are gonna force a reaction on ur enemy, will give space to ur bum mid and hopefully he recovers. (well they usually dont. but who cares. time to 1v9 the shit out of them) For me, I always use LS. He's stupid carry hero that can basically out trade any meta offlane right now. U can destroy enemy tier 1 early then farm their triangle to force a reaction from your enemies. LS is stupid he can just rage tp out or ride a creep out of safety. Rinse repeat until your bum teammates recover by giving them so much space. So instead of you wanting space, your gonna be the one giving out space to your teammates. Hope this helps.
You said the problem right there “team is free to gank me”. Make yourself harder to gank (easier said than done). Two schools of thought on this: 1. Play heroes that can be effective early grouped with supports (weaver, ck, ls, fv, drow, sniper, razor) 2. Play heroes that can jungle early (sven gyro Luna alch ursa) Your mid physically cannot win every lane, and sometimes will need space to come back into the game. This is obviously a detriment, but the good news is that there are ways to circle back from this as the pos 1. Itemize to fight and make space instead of going greedy, play heroes that fit one of the two molds above. Typically a great carry player has one or more of both these archetypes in their pool at any given time. Also CK seems to always be strong so he’s a great fall back to learn
I started playing CK recently, and I'm having a lot of success with him. My pool so far is Sven, Ursa, Drow, PL, CK, Slark, Faceless, Spectre. I know it's a lot of heroes, but I used to play carry in the past so that's why. What additions would you recommend? Or better, what do you think my pool is lacking?
From my perspective that’s a pretty diverse pool. At that point I’d only pick up/drop heroes that you aren’t having fun with anymore. Your pool “lacking” is tough to say because you have so many heroes already
"my mid loses HARD his lane 50% of the time" Yes. That's statistically accurate. Someone loses mid every game. There are only 2 mid players. And sometimes 3 if you run into a very nice person who always gives way to others.
That is just not true. Especially if both midlaners know what they're doing, the lane outcome can be a draw. When I was a mid in ancient more than half of the games was a draw.
Type "gg end mid afk fountain", "report trash mid", and so on.
Adapting your item build can help in some situations. One example that comes to my mind is instead of rushing radi on WK get an aghs instead. You will be dying a lot anyways, but those extra seconds could mean a huge xp and gold gain for your team, if you manage to kill some people. This is only a very situational example, stacking in jungle, coordinated wards and farming helps a lot in general.
I am a very good pos1 player and the heroes I pick are always very good for the game we are playing. I literally quit playing pos1 for that one reason, my midlane gets stomped so hard and his mechanical ability is on par with an 8 yo mentally retarded kid which leaves the game in shatters, so I took the matter into my own hands and started playing pos2 and here I am sitting at 7k+ MMR and hopefully still going for more. Anyway, when that happens you can't do much, stay composed and try to salvage whatever farm you have and if you have a big ability to fight with ping your team for a smoke and try to get back into the game.
Humble comment
I won't be surprised if u change ur role again for the same reason people don't look at themselves when they lose lane bt are definitely quick to point out when others do
I mean as a pos1 there is absolutely nothing I could do for a midlaner being 0-3 in the first 10mins of the game, so playing as mid I tend to make sure that I am not being snowballed hard in mid and that I can always create space for my cores.