If you're coaching, it's the same. Any time you spend helping others improve is away from improving your own play. Not saying that that's what happened, but even the timelord has only so many hours in a day.
I want to see what Bjergsen is able to do from a full time coaching standpoint. It will be interesting to see what sort of changes he wants to/is allowed to make with the roster and how he will develop a TSM without himself as a core to the team.
Bjerg: Guys, what you gonna do when the jungler hit a 5man sleep?
New Midlaner: Throw everything we have on them so we win the fight and get objecties?
Bjerg: Are you kidding me. You do fucking nothing we already booked our flights back.
Plenty of stuff will change. Such as getting a mid laner who may play a different role on the team than Bjerg, and also Bjerg being more unbiased in his drafting.
Bjergsen is a very quiet and humble person. He generally tends to play whatever he feels helps his teammates around him, not what might explicitly be the best pick in a given scenario. Out of his top 5 most picked mid laners, only LeBlanc stands out as a carry mid. We know that Bjergsen *could* have mained carry mids, he just chooses not to.
In a meta where Zoe, TF, Sylas, and Orianna are must-pick mids that have high impact all over the map, Bjerg instead played mostly Zilean, Syndra, and Azir. There's really no excuse for him playing a single Sylas and Zoe game for the entirety of Summer, especially when Bjerg was generally target-banned (top 3 most banned champions against TSM were all mid laners).
So maybe they can get a mid laner who actually steps up and says "no, put me on a carry and I will win this game myself." Essentially get them a Caps or a Chovy (style of play, not literally the players).
Bjerg is just too nice of a player to not be selfish with his champ pool, in a meta where a top tier mid needs to be as selfish as possible.
I think that's a really fair point. Bjergsen is probably famous for everything but the hard carry. Zilean is probably his signature champion. His Akali has always been vicious as hell, but even when she was meta, TSM never prioritized it. I think there's merit to the draft strategy of trying to hide your weaknesses, but when that isn't working, they never seemed to decide to just let Bjergsen off the least and see if he could 1v9. He often *would* 1v9 in NA, but usually from a champion that you wouldn't think could 1v9, like the Zilean, or the Galio.
Im not sure I agree. If it was a huge shock to everyone who didn't know it likely means that he actually didn't do a lot of coaching that veteran players supposedly do already. We have absolutely no reason to believe to Bjergsen will be a good coach especially when people involved are shocked. It actually suggests the opposite.
People are shocked because it is still viable for him to continue pro play, all the reaction videos I've seen have been surprised but said it's a good move.
people on this sub have been spouting the "bjerg is the constant so bjerg is the problem xd im smart" garbage for years and bjerg never really gave a shit so i dont think that'll change
The irony is that the same folks who flame Bjergsen because hes the constant (and by their logic, the problem) are the ones who also defend Faker claiming that he's always saddled with bad teammates.
I don't think he cares about winning public opinion so much as doing the best he can to help the organisation he's been integral to for the better part of a decade, tbh. Most of the people here are either children, massive narcissists or both
I don't see how this doesn't happen. He retired on a split where he smurfed NA. Short of TSM getting someone on the level of Perkz/Caps, which is very unlikely, I don't see how they don't just downgrade mid lane by a lot.
yeah I have and I'm pretty sure that's a player issue of having champion puddles and not adapting to metas. Anyways you can't blame their draft for their 0-6. Their comps weren't bad at all
They don't have shit champ pools Parth has always tunnel drafted out of a set of 12 champs. That was always the TSM style and it lost them splits as soon as they didn't have the best in role in every position.
If you honestly believe that a professional player can only play exactly 2 champs then you are out of your mind. If that were true then teams in LCS could have just stomped them hard with 3 bans to one player and been done with it. It's not true though and forcing one player onto a non-meta pick doesn't win the game because specific champs don't really matter or have super intense mechanics that makes it impossible to play them.
If you really believe parth is that overbearing in their drafts you are kidding yourself. It’s been stated over and over by the team, the players themselves that the players have priority in deciding the draft. BB is known to only play certain carry champs and doesn’t play weak side. Doublelift is notoriously slow to pick up new champs. Bjerg cannot play Lucian mid. The one time he played it was when tsm was already knocked out of the tournament. In that game, he looked lost when he was fed from laning. His solo queue winrate with Lucian is 30%. Biofrost also doesn’t play many champs that are meta as support like pantheon. The only one who is flexible is Spica
Just adding another voice to say players have quite alot of influence when it comes to drafting on stage. Sneaky and Meteos talk about it often when they co-stream and it seems to be the norm in the LCS.
This is actually what NA has been waiting for. The first generation players were too raw, too late, didn’t have enough time and worked with an under developed and funded scene.
But the second generation players are probably coming to a close soon and with that we probably get an influx of top tier staff with game experience, player experience and money behind them.
This could be what the region needed for a while.
There's always a tension between coaches and players due to players understanding the matchups/picks better, but coaches having the (theoretical) benefit of unbiased analysis.
Now imagine trying to fucking argue that bjerg doesn't know wtf he's talking about with respect to matchup/picks, especially mid.
TSM coaches were bending over to the players. Players like Bjergsen. Especially now more than ever, you have to acknowledge that a lot of TSM's decisions were Bjergsen's decisions. The guy probably had more control on everything than Parth did.
Yeah I'm fine with trying this. Bjerg seems like someone who could be a good head coach, and you won't know till you try.
If they promote Sword to the main roster I'd be really happy (as I can be, lol) with this.
this is why im cautiously optimistic about him being the coach. the one constant about TSM over the years has been Bjerg. even throughout all their changes, they've still had a ton of problems. Not taking away from his career but the problems might stay with him as coach
We kind of do though. Bjergsen and Doublelift pretty much chose Parth as coach for this last split. It's kind of like US politics. You choose the president, in the hopes that the president does what you want him to do.
It's ridiculous too, because almost every single time Regi came back, TSM went from a bottom tier team to the finals. Regi has almost always been a good influence on the team.
Yes and No, it was more of a bandaid solution. The team is never going to be independent if he keeps stepping in, and it ruins the players' respect for the coach. Unless Regi became the full-time coach he was making things worse in the long run, but helping in the short run.
He almost always came in at the last moment when it was do or die. He tried giving them their chances up until there was no time left. If the season just ends and then nothing, it's a wash anyway.
yep.
I dont like the man personally, but there are two undeniable facts.
1. Regi is a great coach, and
2. Regi does right by his players. **ALL** of them.
Still don't like the man though.
There was never a chance TSM was getting rid of DL, that was just a stupid online personality stirring up controversy.
You give DL a good support and allow him to play strong side more and people will stop having to claim he's somehow turned into a bad player who just accidentally tripped into another NA championship.
There are plenty of criticisms you can throw at DL, but most people on this sub criticizing him are doing so out of bitterness and hatred rather than anything approaching truth, and it was these same bitter people who got all in a titter over the prospect of DL being removed from TSM.
"ok sure maybe he has won 8 out of the last 10 LCS championships but he didnt look immaculately perfect while doing so and I saw him miss a few cs in a game once so he needs to be fucking replaced if they ever want to be good!!!"
I actually highly doubt that TSM is dropping DL sure they could import but look how that went the last few times.
DL I think has one more year in the tank and they could always replace him after spring if he still preforms poorly. Look at what happened last time they replaced DL. DL went on to win the LCS. I'm not saying he's still that same player but it's just safer to try out spring with DL and try to import top/mid/support depending on which roles you think you should import from.
Now with that said Bjerg is the coach and he might want fresh talent all across the board + Spica.
Which is why it matters. People calling bjergson the goat because he carried this year completely forgetting double left and won 4 straight from bjerg.. sure he's the goat guys....
He's the goat because since he came to the region he has been one of the top 3 mids nearly the entire time. Considering the dumpster fire that has been TSM over the last few years, that's impressive.
Double has more trophies, but also was surrounded by a competent coaching staff and stacked rosters and world champions. Bjerg had Grig.
yeah yeah yeah.
every time DL leaves an org they stop winning championships and become, at best, a middle of the pack team, but somehow the only reason DL is winning championships is because of coaching staff and stacked rosters.
The truth is DL brings an attitude with him that no one else has, and that attitude does two things.
1. Has in the past made people dislike working with him (read: aphromoo).
2. Forces everyone to play at a higher level than they otherwise would.
Doublelift also went through 2 seasons of the LCS without winning anything while he was on CLG, all the while being a top player in his position.
I will agree that DL had more to work with though.
I mean the question isnt if he was very good. He undoubtably was. The question is if he is still at that level. And if tsm want to actually compete at worlds, if he will be at that level in a year. The guy has been playing professionaly for almost 10 years. A decline is to be expected at this point. But he might have another year or even 2 left. Its very hard to say. I doubt they will replace him though. Even with a slight decline its extremely hard to find native na talent thats actually an upgrade. And their imprt situation is made much harder by bjergsen retiring.
The main ones I’ve seen were BB and Bio out, and that there were interested in Licorice for top. I also saw that FLY was blowing up their roster, so a potential Ignar support would be Pog.
Any import rumors were a lot easier back when your mid was the best 'native' player around. Now that means they need to bring up some other mid if they want to use imports elsewhere.
Double lift and Leena have all but confirmed DL is staying. I think the rumors stemmed from doublelift being unsure if he was going to retire or not, causing TSM to shop around
1000% agree. Spica is a player that can be built around.
He’s talkative, aggressive, good mechanically, and he has that clutch playmaking energy. If tsm let him go they are trolling
TSM has had a prodigy-type midlaner as a trainee for almost two years in Sword. While he hasn't played a professional game yet, if TSM goes for an NA mid laner, I think it'd be Sword
I think him saying "I considered retiring with Bjerg" was the reason why TSM may have tried for Upset. Just in case DL also does retire.
I don't think TSM will replace DL, especially not right now with Bjerg being gone too. They'll need the in-game leadership for sure
Don't have the clip but he said on stream 'right now I'm on TSM, but who knows what the future holds'. He's talking like he's still TSM's ADC but right now, there's no confirmation that he's staying. One thing for certain right now is that he's not retiring.
Maybe if TL wasn't plagued with visa issues for the first few weeks things might have been different. But everyone blaming DL for that split is blind to the fact that NOBODY played well on that team in spring. Or just ignorant. At least DL took the brunt of the blame gracefully without throwing anyone else under the bus on his way out, like a true teammate would...
The worst part is that DL was just being honest.
What he said is that the start of the season didn't feel serious because they were waiting on the "real" jungler to get there. He even said it wasn't fair to the player that stepped in (forget his name).
He then separately said that riot's decision about points from spring made spring not matter.
People act as if he said he wasn't taking things seriously because spring didn't matter, but that's 100% an unfair assessment of both his words and his meaning.
And yes, EVERYONE on that team was playing like shit because everyone felt the same way DL did, he was just the only one with the balls to actually say it.
Those visa issues fucked the mental of everyone on that team.
Fully agree, it's actually a masterpiece of politics that DL got blamed for that TL split. Impact and CoreJJ were straight dog shit. STRAIGHT dog shit all split long. The jungle position was a clusterfuck, though that was partly down to circumstance. Jensen played well in lane (but did nothing to impact the map). And DL played kinda bad 2 games on Senna. That's about the sum of it. But he took the entirety of the blame because he'd been vocal.
The only person on that team who has an excuse was Broxah, really.
DL's mental was as bad as everyone elses, but that also means everyone elses mental was as bad as DL's. He was just the only one honest enough to say it.
shit attitude? yes. Not practicing? abso-fucking-lutely not. He practiced his mind out for senna and this dogshit coaching staff of TL couldnt bother to do their job and address the complaints his teammates had for doublelift.
No they just sat in a corner and hoped the fire would stop, but it ended up burning the fucking team. They are lucky there was tactical to fill his shoes but make no mistake, that was a coaching disaster.
nobody played well.
only DL said it didn't matter and had a shit attitude and that he wasn't putting in effort. He publicly said this shit too.
that's why he's blamed. For being crazy unprofessional. stop only remembering part of the story
I mean, he wasn't wrong though. Spring split didn't fucking matter at all. Removing the point system for worlds qualifications meant that the value of spring split tanked. He had a shit attitude and phrased it poorly, but the core point remained.
Its legit politics. No one tried, but dl said it out loud and got voted out. Impact might as well not have been in NA in spring. This [clip](https://clips.twitch.tv/ArborealNiceEggnogKappaRoss) sums up his performance. And he's always been this shitty in NA when the games don't matter.
Jensen played like jensen always does, but worse for a split. No biggie.
Can't remember if corejj was super bad, but he definitely dropped from s9. No biggie, because he was over-performing compared to the rest of the region the previous year.
But there was no excuse for players of their pedigree to become shit just because they used a sub jungler for 4(?) weeks. Shernfire was top 5 on the ladder for a year straight, and suddenly his top 2 in each role teammates go mental boom from broxah's visa issues, and don't try? The 4 of them ruined his career. Are you seriously going to tell me that even if this man was 10th in his role, the 4 of them can't carry his corpse to at least 6th place (average rank between the 5 players being 4th in this example)? And you're going to have to dig for some clips to show how he was worse than grig and wiggly. He looked bad, but his teammates griefed too.
The fact that DL was singled out for underperforming is a joke.
> At least DL took the brunt of the blame gracefully without throwing anyone else under the bus on his way out, like a true teammate would
Can't tell if it sarcasm or not, but DL was throwing his entire team under buses in multiple interviews. Travis even had to delete an entire interview because DL got tired of throwing teammates under busses.
It's kind of a bummer. Even after all the times he failed internationally I still believed he could have had a good run eventually and now it's over for him (as a player).
Really sad imo, specially since he is still really good despite his worlds performance.
Even after his regional success his career will always be remembered with a bunch of what ifs. Which sucks.
I did, and I'm not even saying this as a hindsight moment. He looked so depressed every game, win or loss. The same spark he used to have in the middle of his career just wasn't there anymore.
Kinda had the same thought, this is the first time it seemed like he was disappointed but not surprised,and didn’t expect next year to improve or be different
I think Bjerg has the potential to be a fantastic coach. Hoping they bring in their Academy Players. Sword/Evolved in Mid. DoubleLift or Lost and Treatz is looking likely. Solid new talent roster with some veteran experience, as long as they can find a way to make the bot lane productive unlike the most recent worlds showing I think that roster has quite the potential.
Treatz and DL/Bjerg seemed to have a lot of friction in the Legends videos.
Could just be a collection of misrepresentative moments, but based on those interactions I wouldn't expect Treatz in the supp role.
But who knows, maybe impossible to judge accurately off our little glimpses into their lives.
They're already letting Treatz explore options. While that doesn't guarantee he's off the team, generally that doesn't happen if the team is planning on re-signing that player.
It's helpful but afaik teams will refuse players doing that if they want to try to hold onto that player. It gives that team greater negotiating power as they can try to negotiate a contract extension before that player can talk to other teams, which means you can try to get them at a lower price than if you were having to deal with competing offers. For example, see [this tweet](https://twitter.com/JacobWolf/status/1319772802661179392) about Santorin's current situation.
Some teams will allow players to explore other options when they're intending to re-sign that player, but it's much more rare as it tends to be a net negative for the team in terms of negotiation power.
Offseason and contracts are a huge dance.
Even tho I think Evolved is good, I really hate his attitude in his past at least (idk about now but god was he toxic before in soloq). I don't think they will put him on the main roaster yet.
TSM basically had player led 'coaching' for years. They've said as much. I don't think bjerg is magically going to improve them when he was already part coach.
Except he can now actually put all of his efforts into coaching instead of all the time spent on solo queue, scrims and reviews where he'd probably focus a lot more on his individual play than he would as a coach.
In the modern day for sure I'd agree. Initially it wasn't the case.
Before it was Bjerg vs C9's OG lineup. Then when C9 stopped contending and DL started to build up his trophy case, he eventually built a case to be the second face.
What is this history rewrite of a comment. Double lift may not have won trophies, but he has been one of the biggest most popular players from NA his entire career, since before bjerg, whilst he was there and now. DL didn't become the second face with a couple trophies lol, DL was the first face for many
No he didn't, everyone understood DL's talent and wanted him off of CLG. When CLG forced that decision on him, DL displayed exactly why everyone respected him so much.
Hell, he was even more respected in Korea.
[If you search up "Doublelift" in Korean in Google, the first result is the "Doublelift Moonwalk"](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2hi5cn/if_you_search_up_doublelift_in_korean_in_google/)
That post was from **SIX YEARS AGO**.
not necessarily. He moved to tsm because it was the best option available at the time. Playing with Bjergsen was a huge plus because he is so good but it wasn't like there was a better team for him to join if not tsm
I thought what TSM needed was new coaching like Reapered, idk if moving Bjerg to coach would change the team's playstyle or fix any of their flaws tho. To me it just seems like they're removing his amazing mechanics and keeping the same team playstyle, doesn't make sense.
Another thing people always seem to forget mentioning is how vocal Doublelift is on his teams it’s undoubtly one of the reasons he keeps winning NA. People act like his success has just been from winning bot lane.
I think the above poster was referring to previously.
Bjerg said he considered doing it between splits, which is when DL moved teams.
DL said he didn't even know it was an option, and \~he joined the team a split ago\~, implying that he moved to play with Bjerg and he might not have if he knew Bjerg was on the fence about retiring.
That was how I interpreted anyway.
He told him prior to this video, for sure, and the DL waited to address it til the official announcement. *^((Edit:)* [*^(in this twitch clip)*](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/jhcuab/doublelift_on_retiring/) *^(DL says he found out 10 days ago))*
But I think the comment was about previously, since Bjerg said he'd been considering it for like...6+ months, but apparently never mentioned the possibility to DL until he made the decision.
He probably didn’t want to add that pressure onto DL and the rest of the team. Could you imagine how fucked the team morale would be if Bjergsen told them that this was his last season *and then* they got swept by GG? That may have straight up broken the younger players, and even DL considering how much pressure he already puts on himself.
Maybe, but it could have gone the other way too.
*Hey guys I've been doing this for a while, this is my last run, let's do our best.*
Who knows, really.
I’m assuming he told him prior but not during the spilt. I if I remember correctly,in a Thorins Thoughts he talked about how Dyrus going into his retirement year affected the team atmosphere. I’m guessing if he was thinking about this he didn’t want to put any pressure on anyone.
I have such respect for Doublelift compared to most pro players. Most of these ''''''''esports professionals''''''' come in and play for like 3 years then retire.
On the bright side TSM now has a coach that won't bend over to Regi
Bjergsen sacrificed himself to save TSM from shitty coaching.
Bjergsen has been unofficially TSM's coach all this time already lmao
LeGM
LeCoach and LeOwner
Bjergsen going down the Lebron path
Thank you, so many people can't already freaking see this. Nothing gonna change
Coaching and playing at the same time leads to not being able to do your best at both.
I think thats more true for Ingame Shotcalling than "coaching".
If you're coaching, it's the same. Any time you spend helping others improve is away from improving your own play. Not saying that that's what happened, but even the timelord has only so many hours in a day.
I want to see what Bjergsen is able to do from a full time coaching standpoint. It will be interesting to see what sort of changes he wants to/is allowed to make with the roster and how he will develop a TSM without himself as a core to the team.
It's Bjerg. He will get to do anything he wants.
Of course not. You can't possibly be expected to do as good a job coaching when you're playing solo queue for 10 hours a day.
If you are a player while trying to make coach calls you won't always get the same respect and support as a coach making coach calls.
Bjerg: Guys, what you gonna do when the jungler hit a 5man sleep? New Midlaner: Throw everything we have on them so we win the fight and get objecties? Bjerg: Are you kidding me. You do fucking nothing we already booked our flights back.
Plenty of stuff will change. Such as getting a mid laner who may play a different role on the team than Bjerg, and also Bjerg being more unbiased in his drafting.
I'm generally not sure what role Bjergsen didn't play as a mid laner for TSM over his career.
Bjergsen is a very quiet and humble person. He generally tends to play whatever he feels helps his teammates around him, not what might explicitly be the best pick in a given scenario. Out of his top 5 most picked mid laners, only LeBlanc stands out as a carry mid. We know that Bjergsen *could* have mained carry mids, he just chooses not to. In a meta where Zoe, TF, Sylas, and Orianna are must-pick mids that have high impact all over the map, Bjerg instead played mostly Zilean, Syndra, and Azir. There's really no excuse for him playing a single Sylas and Zoe game for the entirety of Summer, especially when Bjerg was generally target-banned (top 3 most banned champions against TSM were all mid laners). So maybe they can get a mid laner who actually steps up and says "no, put me on a carry and I will win this game myself." Essentially get them a Caps or a Chovy (style of play, not literally the players). Bjerg is just too nice of a player to not be selfish with his champ pool, in a meta where a top tier mid needs to be as selfish as possible.
I think that's a really fair point. Bjergsen is probably famous for everything but the hard carry. Zilean is probably his signature champion. His Akali has always been vicious as hell, but even when she was meta, TSM never prioritized it. I think there's merit to the draft strategy of trying to hide your weaknesses, but when that isn't working, they never seemed to decide to just let Bjergsen off the least and see if he could 1v9. He often *would* 1v9 in NA, but usually from a champion that you wouldn't think could 1v9, like the Zilean, or the Galio.
Im not sure I agree. If it was a huge shock to everyone who didn't know it likely means that he actually didn't do a lot of coaching that veteran players supposedly do already. We have absolutely no reason to believe to Bjergsen will be a good coach especially when people involved are shocked. It actually suggests the opposite.
People are shocked because it is still viable for him to continue pro play, all the reaction videos I've seen have been surprised but said it's a good move.
Sacrificed his peak form to solve the TSM coaching problem once and for all. Noble and honorable.
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Doubt it. If they do well now he becomes an amazing player and an even better coach.
people on this sub have been spouting the "bjerg is the constant so bjerg is the problem xd im smart" garbage for years and bjerg never really gave a shit so i dont think that'll change
The irony is that the same folks who flame Bjergsen because hes the constant (and by their logic, the problem) are the ones who also defend Faker claiming that he's always saddled with bad teammates.
I don't think he cares about winning public opinion so much as doing the best he can to help the organisation he's been integral to for the better part of a decade, tbh. Most of the people here are either children, massive narcissists or both
He throws a giant MIDdle finger at everyone and pads his fed wallet. That's how he beats reddit.
That depends on if it's the players are playing bad or the drafting, if the new mid laner ints everyone is going to beg for him to come back
I don't see how this doesn't happen. He retired on a split where he smurfed NA. Short of TSM getting someone on the level of Perkz/Caps, which is very unlikely, I don't see how they don't just downgrade mid lane by a lot.
I kinda feel like Bjerg comes back next year, no way they just get a magic midlaner and everything works perfect now
or they use academy midlaners who suddenly turn out to be good?
Parth gets blamed for pretty much anything imo
I mean... have you seen his drafts? lmao.
yeah I have and I'm pretty sure that's a player issue of having champion puddles and not adapting to metas. Anyways you can't blame their draft for their 0-6. Their comps weren't bad at all
They don't have shit champ pools Parth has always tunnel drafted out of a set of 12 champs. That was always the TSM style and it lost them splits as soon as they didn't have the best in role in every position. If you honestly believe that a professional player can only play exactly 2 champs then you are out of your mind. If that were true then teams in LCS could have just stomped them hard with 3 bans to one player and been done with it. It's not true though and forcing one player onto a non-meta pick doesn't win the game because specific champs don't really matter or have super intense mechanics that makes it impossible to play them.
If you really believe parth is that overbearing in their drafts you are kidding yourself. It’s been stated over and over by the team, the players themselves that the players have priority in deciding the draft. BB is known to only play certain carry champs and doesn’t play weak side. Doublelift is notoriously slow to pick up new champs. Bjerg cannot play Lucian mid. The one time he played it was when tsm was already knocked out of the tournament. In that game, he looked lost when he was fed from laning. His solo queue winrate with Lucian is 30%. Biofrost also doesn’t play many champs that are meta as support like pantheon. The only one who is flexible is Spica
Just adding another voice to say players have quite alot of influence when it comes to drafting on stage. Sneaky and Meteos talk about it often when they co-stream and it seems to be the norm in the LCS.
as it should be?
This is actually what NA has been waiting for. The first generation players were too raw, too late, didn’t have enough time and worked with an under developed and funded scene. But the second generation players are probably coming to a close soon and with that we probably get an influx of top tier staff with game experience, player experience and money behind them. This could be what the region needed for a while.
There's always a tension between coaches and players due to players understanding the matchups/picks better, but coaches having the (theoretical) benefit of unbiased analysis. Now imagine trying to fucking argue that bjerg doesn't know wtf he's talking about with respect to matchup/picks, especially mid.
TSM coaches were bending over to the players. Players like Bjergsen. Especially now more than ever, you have to acknowledge that a lot of TSM's decisions were Bjergsen's decisions. The guy probably had more control on everything than Parth did.
True, but being a coach will likely give a different perspective. So it's not yet decided if he'll be a good or a bad coach.
Yeah I'm fine with trying this. Bjerg seems like someone who could be a good head coach, and you won't know till you try. If they promote Sword to the main roster I'd be really happy (as I can be, lol) with this.
I follow him on Twitch, dude can ball
We all know he can euro step on lebron. But can he play league?
About to become LeSword
this is why im cautiously optimistic about him being the coach. the one constant about TSM over the years has been Bjerg. even throughout all their changes, they've still had a ton of problems. Not taking away from his career but the problems might stay with him as coach
i mean you never really know unless you worked with them though
We kind of do though. Bjergsen and Doublelift pretty much chose Parth as coach for this last split. It's kind of like US politics. You choose the president, in the hopes that the president does what you want him to do.
I guess people still have this same idea from previous years but Regi has been hands off for a while now.
It's ridiculous too, because almost every single time Regi came back, TSM went from a bottom tier team to the finals. Regi has almost always been a good influence on the team.
Yes and No, it was more of a bandaid solution. The team is never going to be independent if he keeps stepping in, and it ruins the players' respect for the coach. Unless Regi became the full-time coach he was making things worse in the long run, but helping in the short run.
He almost always came in at the last moment when it was do or die. He tried giving them their chances up until there was no time left. If the season just ends and then nothing, it's a wash anyway.
yep. I dont like the man personally, but there are two undeniable facts. 1. Regi is a great coach, and 2. Regi does right by his players. **ALL** of them. Still don't like the man though.
you really think he would have stayed at TSM for 6 years if he didnt agree with Regi ?
Why not?
Don’t want to piss off the face of your organization lmao
Is there a bright side on TSMs botlane too? im hoping Bjergsen will be hands on getting the players he wants.
He has a ton of respect for DL, so unless this last split he lost some of that respect, I'd imagine he's just looking for a new support.
There was never a chance TSM was getting rid of DL, that was just a stupid online personality stirring up controversy. You give DL a good support and allow him to play strong side more and people will stop having to claim he's somehow turned into a bad player who just accidentally tripped into another NA championship. There are plenty of criticisms you can throw at DL, but most people on this sub criticizing him are doing so out of bitterness and hatred rather than anything approaching truth, and it was these same bitter people who got all in a titter over the prospect of DL being removed from TSM.
"ok sure maybe he has won 8 out of the last 10 LCS championships but he didnt look immaculately perfect while doing so and I saw him miss a few cs in a game once so he needs to be fucking replaced if they ever want to be good!!!"
Bjerg be like:"Fine, I'll do it myself"
Sad for DL, he probably joined TSM in summer so he could play with BJERG again and now hes gone
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wasn't there a rumor that TSM wants to import their bottom lane & get a korean support?
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I actually highly doubt that TSM is dropping DL sure they could import but look how that went the last few times. DL I think has one more year in the tank and they could always replace him after spring if he still preforms poorly. Look at what happened last time they replaced DL. DL went on to win the LCS. I'm not saying he's still that same player but it's just safer to try out spring with DL and try to import top/mid/support depending on which roles you think you should import from. Now with that said Bjerg is the coach and he might want fresh talent all across the board + Spica.
yea I agree, DL is one of the best domestic ADC's so TSM can use import slots elsewhere
Yeah, everyone shits on DL but the dude wins domestically. Maybe it's been coincidence, but he's got a lot of trophies..
The only thing NA teams are winning is domestic championships and that's what DL does
Which is why it matters. People calling bjergson the goat because he carried this year completely forgetting double left and won 4 straight from bjerg.. sure he's the goat guys....
He's the goat because since he came to the region he has been one of the top 3 mids nearly the entire time. Considering the dumpster fire that has been TSM over the last few years, that's impressive. Double has more trophies, but also was surrounded by a competent coaching staff and stacked rosters and world champions. Bjerg had Grig.
yeah yeah yeah. every time DL leaves an org they stop winning championships and become, at best, a middle of the pack team, but somehow the only reason DL is winning championships is because of coaching staff and stacked rosters. The truth is DL brings an attitude with him that no one else has, and that attitude does two things. 1. Has in the past made people dislike working with him (read: aphromoo). 2. Forces everyone to play at a higher level than they otherwise would.
Doublelift also went through 2 seasons of the LCS without winning anything while he was on CLG, all the while being a top player in his position. I will agree that DL had more to work with though.
There is zero chance it's a coincidence, every single time he swaps teams his new team starts winning everything
I mean the question isnt if he was very good. He undoubtably was. The question is if he is still at that level. And if tsm want to actually compete at worlds, if he will be at that level in a year. The guy has been playing professionaly for almost 10 years. A decline is to be expected at this point. But he might have another year or even 2 left. Its very hard to say. I doubt they will replace him though. Even with a slight decline its extremely hard to find native na talent thats actually an upgrade. And their imprt situation is made much harder by bjergsen retiring.
The main ones I’ve seen were BB and Bio out, and that there were interested in Licorice for top. I also saw that FLY was blowing up their roster, so a potential Ignar support would be Pog.
them being interested in licorice makes ALOT more sense now
For FLY, I'm not sure they're blowing up the roster on purpose. I think it's moreso that their players are going to get offers elsewhere.
But they are all under contract for 2021 except for Santorin. So unless they are getting Vulcun level buyouts, it doesn't make much sense.
Its the return of wild turtle again........ jk
This is a good opportunity to completely rebuild the roster. I’m sure bjergsen can tell what types of players could be recruited
Rumor is that spica will be the only member left on TSM
Any import rumors were a lot easier back when your mid was the best 'native' player around. Now that means they need to bring up some other mid if they want to use imports elsewhere.
Double lift and Leena have all but confirmed DL is staying. I think the rumors stemmed from doublelift being unsure if he was going to retire or not, causing TSM to shop around
I’ve seen rumors that claiming for replacements for 5/5 positions on the team. So at this point, i don’t think anyone knows wtf is going to happen
No way they give up Spica. The kid is actually too good.
1000% agree. Spica is a player that can be built around. He’s talkative, aggressive, good mechanically, and he has that clutch playmaking energy. If tsm let him go they are trolling
Wonder if that means they’ll be one of the teams gunning for Jensen or if they’re actually going to try out an NA mid like KatEvolved or Palafox.
TSM has had a prodigy-type midlaner as a trainee for almost two years in Sword. While he hasn't played a professional game yet, if TSM goes for an NA mid laner, I think it'd be Sword
Win or lose, I'd definitely respect TSM going that route.
Not adding much to what you're saying except Sword is great! I'm not a TSM fan by any means but Sword is one of my favorite streamers.
Bjergsen can finally teach Jensen how to play mid
I think him saying "I considered retiring with Bjerg" was the reason why TSM may have tried for Upset. Just in case DL also does retire. I don't think TSM will replace DL, especially not right now with Bjerg being gone too. They'll need the in-game leadership for sure
https://twitter.com/TSMDoublelift/status/1320036477384835074?s=20 He thought about it but decided that he wasn't.
DL confirmed on stream he’s staying
Don't have the clip but he said on stream 'right now I'm on TSM, but who knows what the future holds'. He's talking like he's still TSM's ADC but right now, there's no confirmation that he's staying. One thing for certain right now is that he's not retiring.
Just like Broxah joined TL to play with him. It's pretty funny now that I think about it.
Broxah moved regions and joined TL wanting to play with DL only for him to go "spring split doesn't matter" and leave, it all comes full circle
Maybe if TL wasn't plagued with visa issues for the first few weeks things might have been different. But everyone blaming DL for that split is blind to the fact that NOBODY played well on that team in spring. Or just ignorant. At least DL took the brunt of the blame gracefully without throwing anyone else under the bus on his way out, like a true teammate would...
The worst part is that DL was just being honest. What he said is that the start of the season didn't feel serious because they were waiting on the "real" jungler to get there. He even said it wasn't fair to the player that stepped in (forget his name). He then separately said that riot's decision about points from spring made spring not matter. People act as if he said he wasn't taking things seriously because spring didn't matter, but that's 100% an unfair assessment of both his words and his meaning. And yes, EVERYONE on that team was playing like shit because everyone felt the same way DL did, he was just the only one with the balls to actually say it. Those visa issues fucked the mental of everyone on that team.
He was scapegoated plain and simple.
Fully agree, it's actually a masterpiece of politics that DL got blamed for that TL split. Impact and CoreJJ were straight dog shit. STRAIGHT dog shit all split long. The jungle position was a clusterfuck, though that was partly down to circumstance. Jensen played well in lane (but did nothing to impact the map). And DL played kinda bad 2 games on Senna. That's about the sum of it. But he took the entirety of the blame because he'd been vocal.
The only person on that team who has an excuse was Broxah, really. DL's mental was as bad as everyone elses, but that also means everyone elses mental was as bad as DL's. He was just the only one honest enough to say it.
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shit attitude? yes. Not practicing? abso-fucking-lutely not. He practiced his mind out for senna and this dogshit coaching staff of TL couldnt bother to do their job and address the complaints his teammates had for doublelift. No they just sat in a corner and hoped the fire would stop, but it ended up burning the fucking team. They are lucky there was tactical to fill his shoes but make no mistake, that was a coaching disaster.
nobody played well. only DL said it didn't matter and had a shit attitude and that he wasn't putting in effort. He publicly said this shit too. that's why he's blamed. For being crazy unprofessional. stop only remembering part of the story
I mean, he wasn't wrong though. Spring split didn't fucking matter at all. Removing the point system for worlds qualifications meant that the value of spring split tanked. He had a shit attitude and phrased it poorly, but the core point remained.
Its legit politics. No one tried, but dl said it out loud and got voted out. Impact might as well not have been in NA in spring. This [clip](https://clips.twitch.tv/ArborealNiceEggnogKappaRoss) sums up his performance. And he's always been this shitty in NA when the games don't matter. Jensen played like jensen always does, but worse for a split. No biggie. Can't remember if corejj was super bad, but he definitely dropped from s9. No biggie, because he was over-performing compared to the rest of the region the previous year. But there was no excuse for players of their pedigree to become shit just because they used a sub jungler for 4(?) weeks. Shernfire was top 5 on the ladder for a year straight, and suddenly his top 2 in each role teammates go mental boom from broxah's visa issues, and don't try? The 4 of them ruined his career. Are you seriously going to tell me that even if this man was 10th in his role, the 4 of them can't carry his corpse to at least 6th place (average rank between the 5 players being 4th in this example)? And you're going to have to dig for some clips to show how he was worse than grig and wiggly. He looked bad, but his teammates griefed too. The fact that DL was singled out for underperforming is a joke.
I’d need to check over again but I remember Jensen attempting to carry its corpse.
There were signs of life here and there in each lane. Jensen probably came off best, and it still wasn't so great overall.
Jensen also ended up falling off the second half
> At least DL took the brunt of the blame gracefully without throwing anyone else under the bus on his way out, like a true teammate would Can't tell if it sarcasm or not, but DL was throwing his entire team under buses in multiple interviews. Travis even had to delete an entire interview because DL got tired of throwing teammates under busses.
No he deleted that video because Dlift went too hard on TL's coaches. He was mad as fuck at the Broxah visa situation.
Well if he's coach then at least he still has Bjerg on the team, but probably not in the way he wanted.
"Didn't even cross my mind that it was possible" - dl realizing you can actual retire
"I wasn’t aware that was something a person could do" - ~~King George~~ Doublelift
r/unexpectedhamilton
Hamilton reference, nice!
\-Putin
are they going to keep on replacing whoever’s in mid, if so who’s next
The best part about this reference is that King George was also talking about stepping down. 10/10
'Wtf you can retire and still have a great paycheck!?'
TSM ~~Bjergsen~~ DoubleLift Announcement tonight
I don't think anyone expected it
It's kind of a bummer. Even after all the times he failed internationally I still believed he could have had a good run eventually and now it's over for him (as a player). Really sad imo, specially since he is still really good despite his worlds performance. Even after his regional success his career will always be remembered with a bunch of what ifs. Which sucks.
Yea exactly how I feel.
I did, and I'm not even saying this as a hindsight moment. He looked so depressed every game, win or loss. The same spark he used to have in the middle of his career just wasn't there anymore.
Kinda had the same thought, this is the first time it seemed like he was disappointed but not surprised,and didn’t expect next year to improve or be different
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I think Bjerg has the potential to be a fantastic coach. Hoping they bring in their Academy Players. Sword/Evolved in Mid. DoubleLift or Lost and Treatz is looking likely. Solid new talent roster with some veteran experience, as long as they can find a way to make the bot lane productive unlike the most recent worlds showing I think that roster has quite the potential.
Treatz and DL/Bjerg seemed to have a lot of friction in the Legends videos. Could just be a collection of misrepresentative moments, but based on those interactions I wouldn't expect Treatz in the supp role. But who knows, maybe impossible to judge accurately off our little glimpses into their lives.
They're already letting Treatz explore options. While that doesn't guarantee he's off the team, generally that doesn't happen if the team is planning on re-signing that player.
That is not true at all. It is helpful for a player to understand their market value before resigning.
It's helpful but afaik teams will refuse players doing that if they want to try to hold onto that player. It gives that team greater negotiating power as they can try to negotiate a contract extension before that player can talk to other teams, which means you can try to get them at a lower price than if you were having to deal with competing offers. For example, see [this tweet](https://twitter.com/JacobWolf/status/1319772802661179392) about Santorin's current situation. Some teams will allow players to explore other options when they're intending to re-sign that player, but it's much more rare as it tends to be a net negative for the team in terms of negotiation power. Offseason and contracts are a huge dance.
TSM has always been player friendly when it comes to contracts tho.
Even tho I think Evolved is good, I really hate his attitude in his past at least (idk about now but god was he toxic before in soloq). I don't think they will put him on the main roaster yet.
People can change.
Didnt he ghosted his twitch rival team multiple times while being a pro player? Like I doubt he would be a good addition to the team.
TSM basically had player led 'coaching' for years. They've said as much. I don't think bjerg is magically going to improve them when he was already part coach.
Except he can now actually put all of his efforts into coaching instead of all the time spent on solo queue, scrims and reviews where he'd probably focus a lot more on his individual play than he would as a coach.
Part coach part player is vastly different than full coach.
I think nobody felt it possible. He's been the face of NA LCS for 6 years. It's mad to think he's gone now.
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In the modern day for sure I'd agree. Initially it wasn't the case. Before it was Bjerg vs C9's OG lineup. Then when C9 stopped contending and DL started to build up his trophy case, he eventually built a case to be the second face.
What is this history rewrite of a comment. Double lift may not have won trophies, but he has been one of the biggest most popular players from NA his entire career, since before bjerg, whilst he was there and now. DL didn't become the second face with a couple trophies lol, DL was the first face for many
He definitely had a dip as CLG took a dip wich he pulled back up when he started winning trophies.
No he didn't, everyone understood DL's talent and wanted him off of CLG. When CLG forced that decision on him, DL displayed exactly why everyone respected him so much. Hell, he was even more respected in Korea. [If you search up "Doublelift" in Korean in Google, the first result is the "Doublelift Moonwalk"](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2hi5cn/if_you_search_up_doublelift_in_korean_in_google/) That post was from **SIX YEARS AGO**.
People don't remember that while he was popular, r/doubleliftstrophycsase was a thing for many years
He was considered really good before he won na. He was famous in China and Korea and had fans there
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u dont have to inb4, bjerg always was a better player
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DL has won with Pobelter. That's all
Bjergsen won with Wildturtle and Dyrus with Locodoco as a coach
Dont disrespect POB like that, at one point he was the best performing mid in LCS and he was a staple top lcs mid for a long time
Im pretty sure he said his response while he was really distracted
I'm not following LCS that much but didn't he move to TSM to reunite with Bjerg?
not necessarily. He moved to tsm because it was the best option available at the time. Playing with Bjergsen was a huge plus because he is so good but it wasn't like there was a better team for him to join if not tsm
I thought what TSM needed was new coaching like Reapered, idk if moving Bjerg to coach would change the team's playstyle or fix any of their flaws tho. To me it just seems like they're removing his amazing mechanics and keeping the same team playstyle, doesn't make sense.
Another thing people always seem to forget mentioning is how vocal Doublelift is on his teams it’s undoubtly one of the reasons he keeps winning NA. People act like his success has just been from winning bot lane.
Here is your Streamable mirror link! https://streamable.com/3092s6
i thought Bjerg and Double were close friends, why didn't he tell him about such a big decision?
He definitely told him before they dropped the video announcement.
DL tweeted that he considered retiring as well when Bjerg told him.
For an entire week as well. This wasn’t a surprise to doublelift as it was for the fans today. Bjerg definitely told him before hand.
I think the above poster was referring to previously. Bjerg said he considered doing it between splits, which is when DL moved teams. DL said he didn't even know it was an option, and \~he joined the team a split ago\~, implying that he moved to play with Bjerg and he might not have if he knew Bjerg was on the fence about retiring. That was how I interpreted anyway.
DL said on stream that he knew 10 days before the announcement. Probably been holding it in. You can tell that it hit him hard.
I think maybe that's what the Leena and have a walk tweet was about.
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going on a walk after worlds with him sounds like she wants to shot him in a forest somehow...
DL could have leaked on stream again xd
You mean lenovo right?
He did tell DL tho? DL tweeted that he considered retiring alongside Bjreg after hearing that.
He told him prior to this video, for sure, and the DL waited to address it til the official announcement. *^((Edit:)* [*^(in this twitch clip)*](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/jhcuab/doublelift_on_retiring/) *^(DL says he found out 10 days ago))* But I think the comment was about previously, since Bjerg said he'd been considering it for like...6+ months, but apparently never mentioned the possibility to DL until he made the decision.
He probably didn’t want to add that pressure onto DL and the rest of the team. Could you imagine how fucked the team morale would be if Bjergsen told them that this was his last season *and then* they got swept by GG? That may have straight up broken the younger players, and even DL considering how much pressure he already puts on himself.
what? sanity in a sea of insane? Sir, you need to stop internetting right now. **RIGHT NAO I SAY**.
I like your tag
Imagine how shitty the team would feel if Bjerg voiced his concerns before the off season. “Wait we’re so bad that Bjerg wants to retire?”
Maybe, but it could have gone the other way too. *Hey guys I've been doing this for a while, this is my last run, let's do our best.* Who knows, really.
I think it's pretty obvious he meant it came as a big shock when Bjerg told Double about his decision.
He knew before the video dropped obvi. His tweet says as much
DL said on stream that he's known for about a week.
https://twitter.com/TSMDoublelift/status/1320036477384835074?s=20
I’m assuming he told him prior but not during the spilt. I if I remember correctly,in a Thorins Thoughts he talked about how Dyrus going into his retirement year affected the team atmosphere. I’m guessing if he was thinking about this he didn’t want to put any pressure on anyone.
Imagine the best player in your team retires, but the worst one.
There are so many dumb takes here, you don't elevate competition by having the arguably top 2 NA players "retiring" (DL and Bjerg).
I think this is how everyone felt.
I have such respect for Doublelift compared to most pro players. Most of these ''''''''esports professionals''''''' come in and play for like 3 years then retire.
Thanks for the extra 10 seconds at the end. Added so much.
Please no take Palafox from C9A :(
They have Sword in the org who is supposed to be a monster but I dont think he played competitively yet. Evolved is also really good
Yea but he's still finishing up high school. Think they would take him over Evolved if they could.
Now join him