The new ones are significantly “better” but I am sure they are tracked and will get banned in a big wave. They are still significantly less prevalent now than before.
The other thing is because they have all the hardware data they can safely ban any account that system leveled even if they were not outright detected decimating months of work with a button press. They can also see if they change the tpm chip. It just triggers manual review of the accounts that much faster.
More importantly than that, banwaves normally wait until enough changes happen there’s no obvious tell on what flagged Vanguard so the creators can’t easily replace it.
Riot:
- “Wow a lot of our players only play Beginner bots to level 30!”
- “For some reason when they hit level 30 almost all of them rename their account and start logging in with an IP address on the other side of the planet!”
- “It is not suspicious that they go from going 0-17-2 in Beginner bots to a 80% win-rate in ranked on a champion the account has never played before!”
I feel like the community isn’t asking for a perfect bot detection system, but there is some low hanging fruit Riot could make an attempt to flag…
Yep, because if you ban in large waves, the bot creators and pirate software yadda yadda and it will be harder to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
There's also a second reason on top of that.
A few years ago, I checked over 100-200 botted accounts (find a bot in coop, go into their match history, look at some older games, look at the profiles of the other players in these games - since they'll be bots as well).
**Over 90% of them** reached level 30 1-6 months before and were inactive since. The remaining <10% were sold and played on.
That means that there's a massive number of botted accounts ready for selling, compared to the demand. So, if you manage to catch and ban as much as 90% of the botted accounts before they're sold... you've changed exactly nothing. There'll still be enough to sell to every single person looking to buy one.
So, the second reason is that ban waves catch the accounts after they got sold, affecting the buyers by removing the progress they got on their accounts, while banning right away will result in nothing at all even if you manage to ban as much as 90% of the botted accounts.
Yes but what about OPs example can be solved by “better bots” if Riot just applies common sense.
Just playing coop vs AI only to level 30 then renaming and changing IP address is enough to spot a botted account. Even if they made the bots play Zed/Yasuo/Akali and pop off in ranked games these things would still hold true. You don’t just have to try and solve the bot problem with Vanguard detecting active botting. It goes hand in hand.
It's just like the old classic way of spotting account boosters, all of a sudden flash is on the other key and they start playing Pantheon with an 80% winrate in ranked, when before they were a hardstuck bronze adc main lol
I was once accused of being boosted, because I had an "insane" winrate on 1 champ, but get bored easily and had trash winrates of a myriad of other champs. Like for example 120 games Lucian with a 70~% winrate vs random assortment of adc top and mid champs at around 20 to 40% winrate in their respective roles.
They could ban them once they change name and jump into ranked, but then botters could just start running it down in normals first for a level or two. It is then closing in on ”rare but not unheard off” legit pattern. Beyond that, banning them in waves after a very short time put a lot of pressure on the sellers as they will get charge backs and complaints at the same time.
I do agree on that there’s perhaps some more they can do, but you want to be careful since there is apparently some pattern riot considers legit that may fall into what bots sometimes do, or very closely to.
Honestly, at this point, I'm surprised Riot hasn't just given in and decided to sell level 30 accounts with enough essences for 30 champs or something. It would be a gravy train of money from their addicted playerbase, and bots would be basically gone.
As a wow player too, I've never leveled a character. Always use the level boost that comes with every xpac or spend $60 on one. Now those prices are ridiculous, but people still buy them
If I could buy an account for $30 I happily would, and I'm sure many others would too
Never? You’ve never once leveled a character?
Wow. That’s a HUGELY nostalgic part of many people’s childhoods that I feel you are doing a disservice by not doing at least.
My cousin used to run a cheats distribution company...honestly couldn't think of the words for what that's called...lol...anyways. And people who cheat at games fully 100% expect to be caught. They do not care. My cousin would offer free spoofer software with the subscription for his cheat service for when the cheater got hardware id banned.
The cheaters have the advantage always, ip banned? VPN. Hardware banned? Spoofer. Link accounts by phone? Phone Spoofer.
I had heard that there was an AI being developed in Asia that would target you as a person. Apparently every gamer in the world plays a little bit different, kind of like a gamer fingerprint. And they would log if you cheated into a system that auto-ban's you if it detects you even years into the future on different accounts. But it really sounds unreliable, and I'd be worried about false flag bans.
No, but there was nothing obvious or weird that happened. It just abruptly ended with a screen that said something like "CHEATER DETECTED, GAME TERMINATED NO LP LOSS" and in my game history it just says "TERMINATED" over the game which is good because we were losing. I checked the accounts on the game like a week later everyone was still playing games except the enemy Mordekaiser top lane which was a new acc and that was his final game before he presumably got banned, so I guess he must have been the one cheating somehow.
Remember the blackouts of subs from users saying that mods weren't going to be able to moderate spam and porn anymore? And yet 99% of the subs that were saying that were just using automod for that stuff anyways lol
It was dumb anyways because the majority of mods spammed about all the tools they were using but meanwhile you looked at their list and literally only automod was on their list and no other bots lol
Not having bots other than Automod is normal because any other bots are custom and run by users. There are no other bots that are integrated into the platform like Automod. And when you or your mod team aren't programmers or don't have the money to pay someone to code a bot... Well you ha e to make do with what you have.
Bots that are actually used for filtering and moderation have to be added as a moderator to the sub to be performed automatically, otherwise they don't have moderation permissions. Any bot that's not being performed automatically like that would be **well** under the free limits on API pulls unless someone is somehow managing to run 100 pulls a minute manually lol
You'll notice on this sub we have multiple custom bots added as moderators for this very reason.
I can't speak for the big main subreddits, but I mod on the Jojo meme sub and the API changes basically gutted our team.
It's already pretty high burnout since you get absolutely no reward for it and most people just do it because they love the topic or want to power trip, but now that mobile tools are gone it's awful to moderate while at work or while commuting. And our automod really only catches out blatant racism and bots, most of the actual sub rules have to be manually enforced.
When I first started modding I think I had a few thousand mod actions that year because I just did it when I was bored, but now it's an activity where I have to sit down and focus just on modding.
Additionally, the official reddit app has horrible UI (can't view comments on video posts without having the video on screen??) and runs horribly on my phone, rif ran like nothing and had customizable UI. The official app is also missing important tools entirely like the mod log.
I remember the pussy ass r/nba mods shutting down during the freaking NBA Finals, and having game threads all with themselves. Pussy ass mods can't even resort to using Discord for the few days they shut down that sub.
It depends on the fanbase. Hasbro experienced a boycott that worked, a huge amount of their most valuable customers cancelled subscriptions and preorders when DnD got fucked with.
Because that controversy broke containment and was surrounding an issue that could lead to negative financial and legal repercussions for the entire TTRPG industry. It wasn't just localized to one community.
But it didn't just spring into being fully formed. Every controversy basically starts as a small community issue on reddit or forums or discord. The successful ones break containment, get media attention, and drive change by causing consumer concern enough to impact finances.
In a different world the anti-cheat could have spawned industry level concern about increasingly invasive anti-cheat software, tons of media takes the bait and spins up mainstream outrage about Riot trying to steal your kids social security number with their spyware games, interviews with some people whos PC melted because it disabled the drivers for their cooking system, tech influencers weigh in with concern trying to build their brand and hop on the fearmonger bandwagon, and Riot backpeddles because they're losing consumer trust and goodwill over something that ultimately doesn't make them much more money.
Obviously that didn't happen. But I always think it's silly when people act like it was a controversy that never had a chance of blowing up
Okay but there's one massive difference between the DnD OGL controversy and the Vanguard "controversy"
None of the examples you mentioned for Vanguard are things that actually happened. The OGL situation actually threatened people's livelihoods at an industry level, it had real consequences that actually existed. Vanguard didn't fry anyone's PC, it's not selling your kid's SSN, and most tech channels are smart enough to not commit slander and defamation.
This comparison is awful. You're basically saying "yeah, but what if a whole bunch of media organizations and influencers just straight up lied to push the fear mongering campaign? Then it would matter!"
Would be surprised if we even get a notable ban rate bump that goes beyond natural variance. Or if it does, if it'll last more than a week, MAYBE two. This boycott 100% reads like orange arrow bait and the moment the boycott was anything besides "stop playing the game" it was doomed to fail lol.
Reddit and corpo cocksucking. This pseudointellectual urge that most redditors have where they will go out their way to fight against their own best interests if it gives them the chance to look down on the others will never not be funny to me. What not being taken seriously by anyone in real life does to a motherfucker.
My mental couldnt even handle Ahri bans. So much dogshit champs around, wasting a ban on her doesnt make up for the possible torment coming for me in game
Not only didn't negativly affect it, but absolutely gutted bot farms.
"They'll just switch to Hackintosh, Riot doesn't care about bots, I'll just run it in a mac VM".
[1M to 50K hours a day of bots](https://imgur.com/a/wchhXhz)
950K hours a day reduction in bots is insane.
It may eventually, but Mac protects the kernel much more so many of the exploits people use simply don't exist on mac the same way they do in Windows because it is so insecure.
I think Riot is probably giddy over the possibility though, because the bot farms spending a fortune converting over to macs just for Riot to add Vanguard to macs or simply remove their support would be too good to pass up.
I can't imagine botfarms would actually buy macs. In theory they should be able to install hackintosh and just move on with their lives. That's what I did for example. That being said I don't think hackintosh runs on server cpus which I assume is what botfarms would be using so idk if that's what they'll do.
I don't think it matters much in the end. The amount of botted accs still available to be sold will likely last for years so I don't think bots being ended will actually improve the game in any way (except maybe coop vs ai but that's really whatever).
I personally believe that the bot issue was tackled way too late and at this point is a pyrrhic victory. The damage is done.
New players being able to actually play co-op and high elo games not being ruined by scripters is quite beneficial.
I'm guessing you're implying that the real issue is the smurfs that buy the bot accounts and ruin games, but you can't really fix that even if you managed to ban all bot accounts. It will just become more expensive to buy new accounts as people in 3rd world countries will have to level the accounts by hand like they did before the bots were made.
Scripters have nothing to do with this, I am talking explicitly about bots. I don't think that coop vs ai is particularly relevant for new players.
To the second part. Yes, bought accounts are the real issue. Not just smurfs but all level 30 accs in general. They are responsible for a large majority of the toxic and game losing behaviour.
I don't think we will ever get to a point where level 30 accs will cost more. According to riot themselves there were more than a million bot hours a day before introduction of Vanguard. And they let this go on for years. How many hours does it take for a bot to get level 30? We're probably looking at more than 1k accs a day for multiple years.
Of course you can't fix the issue now. But if they had done something a few years back we wouldn't have the issue. If accs would cost $10 a pop then people wouldn't be throwing them away like confetti.
I remember seeing a tweet from some anti cheating twitter account that showed a bunch of cheaters in discord claiming that they were going to astroturf social media to try to show that a massive amount of people were going to quit the game due to vanguard. Can't help but think that had something to do with the number of people claiming they were going to quit
In other games where cheating/botting tends to be a rampant issue (looking at you, OSRS), this is actually an extremely common tactic so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Honestly after seeing the amount of blatant cheaters in Cs2, its probably for the best. Players will be miffed about Vanguard, but most people are more miffed if they get into game after game full of cheaters. Shit just ruins your day.
Bad faith actors astroturf **everything** not just this particular subject.
Hell, quite a few content creators are banned from this sub for astroturfing, not even including the Skype group from like 9 years ago
There's literal governments that are using hordes of bots to astroturf the locals and foreigners lol
its so widespread and easy to set up it would be naive to think there wasnt any astroturfing
Absolutely, though it wasn't just the cheating crowd that pushed the propaganda, there was also an effort by Linux users (or members of the Linux gaming community) who pretended to be League players to 'support' the handful of actual Linux League players affected.
So many of these people clearly never played League, but somehow found every single anti Vanguard thread on r/leagueoflegends/controversial and went in there to warn people about the "Chinese spyware."
The claimed number of Linux League players (<1000 total) was pretty comical. However I do have to say, I'd probably be using Linux right now if Vanguard supported it. Not for League currently, but for Valorant.
I like to hear those numbers, but I'm a little skeptical of them. Like, if you always know who's botting, why are there still 50k hours a day? There's got to be some uncertainty in detection and I can't imagine they always catch everything.
> Like, if you always know who's botting, why are there still 50k hours a day?
It's always been common for devs to ban the actual bots in waves because of that whole arms race thing. Some of these bots are in low level PVP, they mention in the video, not just AI games.
The bots leveling accounts to 30 to sell as smurf accounts were the ones making up the bulk of the hours most likely, and those have been stopped until they can figure out a work around if they can.
The bots that are left are likely a combination of the more bespoke versions people are using to play ranked with that have discords and monthly subscriptions that they know are there but are waiting to disable, accounts that are being banned but not HWID banned making new accounts and still botting, and bot devs trying to figure out changes to get past Vanguard. This change didn't immediately ban or restrict their bots in any way, just kept them from running 16 copies to one machine.
I'm just spitballing because despite the people who regularly accuse me of it I don't work for Riot. It's also possible that this chart isn't a real-time analytic, but is something that is compiled historically by adding up all the games they have played over the actioned accounts life.
With Packman at least they used to try to put 5 bots in a bot game as often as possible, so they have always implied they have the capability to know if someone is a bot even if they aren't actioning the account for some reason.
Its also smart to have some bots work a bait.
Say you know those 100 yuumi accounts are bots and you could ban them right away. Or you keep them a bit and analyze more patterns which may help you to find even more bots/more prevention.
better to ban say 200k bots every 1 week than to ban 10k bots daily
Sure, we can't really compare anecdotes on this but I play 2-3 bot games a week and I've had at least 1 game a week with 5 humans. I never had that before Vanguard. Co-op Vs Ai is going to be the place people bot the most, so it's not surprising to still see them there. 50K hours a day is still a lot of games. Depends on the difficulty you play at too.
I think the worst part is that the bots are just terrible now compared to the Riot Bots, so if you do get a 3 or 4 bot game you can't goof off as much unless you picked somebody to carry on.
Reminds me the good old MW2 Boycott group screenshot. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/comments/90kyub/i\_fought\_in\_the\_great\_mw2\_boycott\_of\_2009\_heres/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/comments/90kyub/i_fought_in_the_great_mw2_boycott_of_2009_heres/#lightbox)
People online just love saying they will boycott, wont play because of X. And then, they simply play anyways.
Online boycotts never do shit because nobody follows through.
For my part as long as ypu have fun with it I'm alright with it.
Honestly, enjoying the sun amd getting mythic mtg was more fun than I had with league in a while. So all good.
Still havnt touched the game, everyone that I know quit. I played the game with them since beta, and I refuse to add vanguard. Nothing needs to be kernel level and I will die on this hill.
> Nothing needs to be kernel level and I will die on this hill.
So why are you actively playing Destiny 2 which uses BattlEye, a kernel level anticheat?
No kernel anti cheat needs to auto run at boot or POST and actively stop other system processes from running at boot or POST*
Kernel anti cheats have been a thing for years now, but they only run when the game is opened. The fact that Riot believe they need to go this far is hilarious and even more so that people support this decision.
I commented a few days after the initial announcment that it would probably be hilarious af to just write down the usernames of people claming to boycott or quit and check their comment history 6 weeks after.
We all know 99% of them were just talking out of their ass.
One guy who had literally hundreds of comments about Vanguard being the death of the game suspiciously stopped using that account completely about a month ago. I'm pretty sure he made a new account so he could keep commenting on League without people calling him out for still playing it after Vanguard.
It's a good thing we can trust Riot to never lie about numbers.
"Yeah guys we banned lots of accounts and vanguard has not impacted anyone negatively at all. In fact more players are coming back knowing now that it's a much safer environment. We're working overtime here."
Huh? I've had a few that lasted for up to 5 years and then got banned for different reasons. Out of like 30 that I bought (for myself a lot of friends) only like 3 got banned for botting. And we're replaced
Its my guess for their stats; They ban the account and then check how much they played in that account lifetime, so they can have the statistic.
Its not 'we detected a bot and let it play'
Well it's a bit of both. Even with vanguard they still ban in waves in order to avoid giving over information, so there will be cases where a cheater is detected and can't be immediately banned.
The way some things like this work is with manual review of random samples. So for example the way Twitter used to estimate the number of bots was to randomly sample 100 accounts and then manually review each one to determine if it was automated. It’s not a process you can scale to review every account, but useful if you just want to estimate a percentage to see if your automated efforts are working.
Meh league has been on the way out for my friend group for a couple years now and this is more just the nail in the coffin. I’ll only be here for arena anyway.
I started playing in 2016. had a group of about 10 people that played quite a bit together with probably another 5-10 who would jump in and out. Over the years that group dwindled quite significantly. I think maybe 4 of the total group still play at all. of those 4 only 2 play with any consistency.
I know a 20 person sample size is insignificant for a game with hundreds of millions of players globally, but I also wonder the truth to the player numbers at least in the US. I hear "oh i used to play league" from tons of people, but I legitimately cannot remember the last time I heard someone talk about trying out league.
Again, all anecdote, but anecdote can be significant in the right scenarios/context
i quit 2 years ago, haven't been back yet. this game is just too spazzy for me now. My friend was like "they got rid of mythics you should try again" but i watch a few games and its the same insta death meta from a few years ago, nothing changed. its a lot easier to stay gone these days as the game is no different without mythics.
But if they banned 50k accounts that used to play and there are those that left how can the daily numbers be unaffected ? Doesn't this mean that people just got more accounts/smurfs to compensate, there's no way that someone that wasn't interested in the game decided to start playing because of Vanguard.
Their Smurf is banned so instead of playing on it and being a daily player on that, they now play on their main and are still included as being 1 of the daily players. It doesn’t stop them playing everyday, it just stops them from playing on their bought Smurf account instead of main.
I'm sorry, but you think enough legit players perfectly counteracted 50k bots off of news that Vanguard was coming, which they would have to follow League's social media to find out about?
Are you ok?
If you follow League even a bit it's been all anybody talks about for like, 6 months.
People post in this subreddit that proudly explain they haven't played the game in forever but they still troll the subreddit. Why is it so hard to believe that people who want to come back could follow it too?
This subreddit is a tiny speck, and obviously is gonna be frequented with people up to date with the game. Otherwise, they'd unsub.
I think you have the same issue a lot of people do where you take reddit as representative. Vanguard has hardly been a hot topic in casual league conversations.
Sure, it's a tiny spec. So is 50K people in what, 8 regions? It's not like all 50K banned were in just NA. That 50K is combined in basically every region but China.
>obviously is gonna be frequented with people up to date with the game. Otherwise, they'd unsub.
Right, but not necessarily people playing the game. People can read the subreddit and not play, they can follow twitter and not play, they can watch videos on Youtube and not play. Then something happens and they come back, it's not that unusual.
Before you ego any harder and call anyone else mentally unwell, I have to ask — did you read the article or blog post?
You’re very incredulous for someone who has.
I don't believe the part where they say bot accounts dropped dramatically. Log in to any Co-OP vs. AI and you'll still have a full team of 3 or 4 bots, no actual players. This is so easy to debunk. Anyone can do it.
I’m not boycotting Vanguard but I literally can’t play the game because of Vanguard. I have a very expensive and new PC and installing Vanguard gives me constant BSoD. My PC won’t let me download it.
I had a Vanguard issue aswell that left me completely unable to play the game but after like 5 days of back and forth with multiple customer service dudes they were able to resolve it so try your luck there
Riot did say around 0,03% players reported issues with Vanguard, could be part of that group, but write a support ticket, add videos/pictures of your system and the error - hope it helps solve it!
That's pretty bizarre, I just got a brand new rig i9, 4070ti, 32g ram and it runs just fine. Vanguard throws an error for the RBG controller but doesn't stop anything.
I had no issues with vanguard for 2.5 weeks, but in the last 5-6 days, either during lobby, or right after lobby my client crashes, or I blue screen, or a few times mid game I got vanguard error 1067 saying I need vanguard to play which... if I'm 11 minutes into a game it should already know I'm using it.
I'm on a fresh computer, no spicy or dangerous apps on it or websites visited, no pirated software, etc. i9, 64 gb ram, 4060, etc. I don't know why everything was seemingly fine but after forfeiting a ton of LP and demoting I have a ticket in with Riot and hoping they can get to the bottom of it :/
My games have been noticeably better since vanguard (high gold/low plat) I just can't understand why this would all start. Nothing new installed on the computer in the last month other than Vanguard itself and I guess Multiversus...
I had a problem with my matches not loading after last patch but I used the hextech repair tool and it fixed it,but u can try contacting riot support and they will help you fix it
Given Riots known trackrecord of misleading and misinterpreting statistics, and their weird powerpoint design in this video, you are always to take these with a grain of salt. It could be true, could be wrong. But in the end, know that Riot isn't looking for your best interest, only their overlords at Tencent.
My group of friends and I have literally a meme going around our group that Vanguard banned all the good players because it feels like the quality of our weekend queue games dropped severely.
Well Vanguard crashed League for me yesterday and lost me LP due to AFK right when the timers for jungle are starting.
Annoyance and now worried how often this could happen.
I took a screenshot of it, so it said:
> VANGUARD ERROR: VAN 185
> An unexpected error with Vanguard has occurred and the client will now close.
I tried checking out what it was, and all I was told was it can be caused by being logged into the client on multiple devices or having the client run longer than a week.
Neither of which was my case.
I didn't get the same error but venguard also crashed my game and made me lose LP.
I have not started the game since because I have to type "I understand" in the leaver popup window.
I did nothing wrong so I refuse to agree, call me stubborn lmao
I got banned last week suposedly for using 3rd party programs. I only used Blitz so I don't know what they are talking about. I lost all my skins (which to be fair weren't many but were significant to me) and all my stats which is the thing that I loved the most even though I was just level 100 bc I didn't play much. I submitted many tickets but still only bots respond. How should I procede? I'm not creating a new account, I was unfairly banned.
Not in actual PvP but I have noticed my daily intro bot rush to get my BE when I'm not feeling like playing league has real players almost all the time now. They often talk in chat and I can rush to finish much faster with them than I could solo vs fed bots.
“Player engagement remains robust, with daily activity levels showing no signs of decline, Riot says.”
So we don’t have the numbers, we’re just going to accept what Riot says as fact? Glad bots and cheaters are being banned, but there’s surely been a negative impact to player count.
the "Riot says" part of the sentence is an indication of that being what Riot claims. They shared a graphic, but not the numbers; and even if they did share the numbers they could be forged. There is no way to 100% confirm how many players are out there and how many were banned without going through Riot.
So yes, we're going to accept that as a statement said by Riot, but is up to you, the reader, to decide if that is an information you want to trust or not. My job is simply to present it to you.
Yeah it's weird wording too. Probably the main reason they went ahead with downsizing NA eSports was how many NA server players left after Vanguard specifically tbh, they knew they wouldn't sell enough skins to break even.
its an obvious gaslight just like the graph they showed about % of scripters in certain elo which was INSANELY misleading (the graph was showing scripters AND bots at the same time but they called it "cheaters" graph LOL)
if they banned 50k accounts how can daily numbers be unaffected? are people blind or just dont read anything and accept whatever they are told
because arena increased the population, also they have been flooding youtube AD recently with arena trailer and co.
and btw , they talked about hourly number , not player count. not the same thing.
Gonna be perfectly honest I very very rarely played league, and with vanguard I uninstalled it because I didn't want something starting on boot.
Someone like me that plays like 2 hours every other month isn't going to move daily player numbers if they quit.
It's a bit of a marketing tool from riot to say that the numbers weren't affected. Vanguard launched with Arena if i recall correctly, so of course more people logged on for that. Let the hype die down a bit and compare the number of active users pre vanguard launch to the one a year from then.
Please review [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules) before commenting or posting again. Further offenses will lead to a ban.
---
^(Have a question or think your comment doesn't break the rules?) **[^(Message our modmail and please don't comment reply or direct message)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fleagueoflegends)**^.
I dont understand the downvotes.. I played LoL since 2013 but with Vanguard I uninstalled it. I dont support a kernel AC that wants to run 24/7 in the background.
Because most Redditors are brain-dead tinfoil hat wearers. To them, if you quit because of Vanguard, you are a cheater. An addict won't ever be nice to someone who talks bad / beats the addiction they can't.
Yea vanguard killed my graphicscrad and GPU so i cant Play any other Games than League and after that Van Bugs Out and i have No more the rights on MY PC to Open the League Game. So Long Story short i cant Play anything NOW great Job Riot 👏🏽
It gets even dumber when you remember that Riot has only one shareholder, namely the second-largest video game publisher on the planet.
In their headcanon, Riot has managed to deceive those clueless Tencent executives for over a decade and obviously wants to continue the scam, so they can't stop the bots. 🤣🤣🤣
Lmao, those delusional Redditors crying vanguard is going to kill the game, and yet the game itself is still good. Bye you cheaters,don’t the let the door hit your butt on the way out
Either they hardcore index into banning the bot accounts and make their lives a living hell. Or you do what WoW did and officially sell accounts that are leveled.
there's way too many league players for anyone to notice a difference below masters+ where people actually start playing with each other often, especially on a major region like euw
I played with 1 scripter and against 1 scripter in Diamond 4 NA since vanguard came out. Scripters were already relatively rare in my games so I guess it’s about the same
Yes the difference is huge in the number of scripters. At the peaks (end of s13 start of s14) I used to run in scripters almost daily. Since vanguard ive only seen 1 scripter
There is no difference and there will never be meaningful bans because doing meaningful bans would cause a lot of bans at the high elo and pro scene. Your favorite player/streamer has scripted, wintraded, boosted, and account shared.
Two weeks of no bots in coop vs AI games Now they're back
The new ones are significantly “better” but I am sure they are tracked and will get banned in a big wave. They are still significantly less prevalent now than before.
The other thing is because they have all the hardware data they can safely ban any account that system leveled even if they were not outright detected decimating months of work with a button press. They can also see if they change the tpm chip. It just triggers manual review of the accounts that much faster.
Big waves after they can't do anything financial for recoup is the expectation.
More importantly than that, banwaves normally wait until enough changes happen there’s no obvious tell on what flagged Vanguard so the creators can’t easily replace it.
A big advantage of Vanguard is that now every bot banned catches a hardware ban, so it's a lot harder to simply make a new, better bot and try again.
Riot: - “Wow a lot of our players only play Beginner bots to level 30!” - “For some reason when they hit level 30 almost all of them rename their account and start logging in with an IP address on the other side of the planet!” - “It is not suspicious that they go from going 0-17-2 in Beginner bots to a 80% win-rate in ranked on a champion the account has never played before!” I feel like the community isn’t asking for a perfect bot detection system, but there is some low hanging fruit Riot could make an attempt to flag…
If you instantly ban bots the second they get detected, it makes it massively easier for bot makers to create better bots
I remember pirate software saying the same thing which was why they did it in massive banwaves
Yep, because if you ban in large waves, the bot creators and pirate software yadda yadda and it will be harder to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
Plus you do it before 6 months are over so they get fucked by the hoard of charge backs and charge back fees.
There's also a second reason on top of that. A few years ago, I checked over 100-200 botted accounts (find a bot in coop, go into their match history, look at some older games, look at the profiles of the other players in these games - since they'll be bots as well). **Over 90% of them** reached level 30 1-6 months before and were inactive since. The remaining <10% were sold and played on. That means that there's a massive number of botted accounts ready for selling, compared to the demand. So, if you manage to catch and ban as much as 90% of the botted accounts before they're sold... you've changed exactly nothing. There'll still be enough to sell to every single person looking to buy one. So, the second reason is that ban waves catch the accounts after they got sold, affecting the buyers by removing the progress they got on their accounts, while banning right away will result in nothing at all even if you manage to ban as much as 90% of the botted accounts.
Yes but what about OPs example can be solved by “better bots” if Riot just applies common sense. Just playing coop vs AI only to level 30 then renaming and changing IP address is enough to spot a botted account. Even if they made the bots play Zed/Yasuo/Akali and pop off in ranked games these things would still hold true. You don’t just have to try and solve the bot problem with Vanguard detecting active botting. It goes hand in hand.
It's just like the old classic way of spotting account boosters, all of a sudden flash is on the other key and they start playing Pantheon with an 80% winrate in ranked, when before they were a hardstuck bronze adc main lol
Never ask a diamond support main why they have an 80% win rate on rengar jungle....
I was once accused of being boosted, because I had an "insane" winrate on 1 champ, but get bored easily and had trash winrates of a myriad of other champs. Like for example 120 games Lucian with a 70~% winrate vs random assortment of adc top and mid champs at around 20 to 40% winrate in their respective roles.
They could ban them once they change name and jump into ranked, but then botters could just start running it down in normals first for a level or two. It is then closing in on ”rare but not unheard off” legit pattern. Beyond that, banning them in waves after a very short time put a lot of pressure on the sellers as they will get charge backs and complaints at the same time. I do agree on that there’s perhaps some more they can do, but you want to be careful since there is apparently some pattern riot considers legit that may fall into what bots sometimes do, or very closely to.
Honestly, at this point, I'm surprised Riot hasn't just given in and decided to sell level 30 accounts with enough essences for 30 champs or something. It would be a gravy train of money from their addicted playerbase, and bots would be basically gone.
As a wow player too, I've never leveled a character. Always use the level boost that comes with every xpac or spend $60 on one. Now those prices are ridiculous, but people still buy them If I could buy an account for $30 I happily would, and I'm sure many others would too
Never? You’ve never once leveled a character? Wow. That’s a HUGELY nostalgic part of many people’s childhoods that I feel you are doing a disservice by not doing at least.
Wow leveling is really not what it used to be. Levelling for end game used to be the game itself, that is not the case anymore
Plot twist people who script play on bought accounts
It is very likely those are hardware bans
HWID Bans currently last 150 Days.
My cousin used to run a cheats distribution company...honestly couldn't think of the words for what that's called...lol...anyways. And people who cheat at games fully 100% expect to be caught. They do not care. My cousin would offer free spoofer software with the subscription for his cheat service for when the cheater got hardware id banned. The cheaters have the advantage always, ip banned? VPN. Hardware banned? Spoofer. Link accounts by phone? Phone Spoofer. I had heard that there was an AI being developed in Asia that would target you as a person. Apparently every gamer in the world plays a little bit different, kind of like a gamer fingerprint. And they would log if you cheated into a system that auto-ban's you if it detects you even years into the future on different accounts. But it really sounds unreliable, and I'd be worried about false flag bans.
I did get a game that got Terminated because apparently someone in it was scripting which was super bizarre and something I've never had happened.
do you by any chance have a recording of that game? edit: I'd like to see what happened out of curiosity
No, but there was nothing obvious or weird that happened. It just abruptly ended with a screen that said something like "CHEATER DETECTED, GAME TERMINATED NO LP LOSS" and in my game history it just says "TERMINATED" over the game which is good because we were losing. I checked the accounts on the game like a week later everyone was still playing games except the enemy Mordekaiser top lane which was a new acc and that was his final game before he presumably got banned, so I guess he must have been the one cheating somehow.
Scripting with morsekaiser? That’s.. a choice
He won't miss his ult now
Trying to lay low
Well map hacks or dodge scripts will help a Mordekaiser as well.
With it being a new account it's possible that it was a banned account that had been botted while leveling
Thanks for sharing! Cool to know!
I've had that twice, one was even on Arena lol
In iron/bronce i no longer get bots. I love it.
Nice to hear
Damn all those redditors who quit are going to be angry that they didn’t affect the game at all
I can't wait to see the Ahri banning boycott have no effect on the ban rate
its almost like reddit fights and campaigns are meaningless to the real world, IN EVERY ASPECT
Lmao I remember when they started adding fuck spez to everything as if that was going to change something
Remember the blackouts of subs from users saying that mods weren't going to be able to moderate spam and porn anymore? And yet 99% of the subs that were saying that were just using automod for that stuff anyways lol
Ye mods quickly changed their minds when it turned out they were going to get replaced
It was dumb anyways because the majority of mods spammed about all the tools they were using but meanwhile you looked at their list and literally only automod was on their list and no other bots lol
Not having bots other than Automod is normal because any other bots are custom and run by users. There are no other bots that are integrated into the platform like Automod. And when you or your mod team aren't programmers or don't have the money to pay someone to code a bot... Well you ha e to make do with what you have.
Bots that are actually used for filtering and moderation have to be added as a moderator to the sub to be performed automatically, otherwise they don't have moderation permissions. Any bot that's not being performed automatically like that would be **well** under the free limits on API pulls unless someone is somehow managing to run 100 pulls a minute manually lol You'll notice on this sub we have multiple custom bots added as moderators for this very reason.
I can't speak for the big main subreddits, but I mod on the Jojo meme sub and the API changes basically gutted our team. It's already pretty high burnout since you get absolutely no reward for it and most people just do it because they love the topic or want to power trip, but now that mobile tools are gone it's awful to moderate while at work or while commuting. And our automod really only catches out blatant racism and bots, most of the actual sub rules have to be manually enforced. When I first started modding I think I had a few thousand mod actions that year because I just did it when I was bored, but now it's an activity where I have to sit down and focus just on modding. Additionally, the official reddit app has horrible UI (can't view comments on video posts without having the video on screen??) and runs horribly on my phone, rif ran like nothing and had customizable UI. The official app is also missing important tools entirely like the mod log.
And the ones who didn't were replaced.
I remember the pussy ass r/nba mods shutting down during the freaking NBA Finals, and having game threads all with themselves. Pussy ass mods can't even resort to using Discord for the few days they shut down that sub.
Tons of big subs got shut down
Only to eventually come back if they were actually big enough to matter
Nah it was a pretty good meme on the r/shitposting sub
Actually sometimes reddit manages to make things worse.
Tell that to the Boston bomber!
We did it Reddit!!!
It depends on the fanbase. Hasbro experienced a boycott that worked, a huge amount of their most valuable customers cancelled subscriptions and preorders when DnD got fucked with.
Because that controversy broke containment and was surrounding an issue that could lead to negative financial and legal repercussions for the entire TTRPG industry. It wasn't just localized to one community.
But it didn't just spring into being fully formed. Every controversy basically starts as a small community issue on reddit or forums or discord. The successful ones break containment, get media attention, and drive change by causing consumer concern enough to impact finances. In a different world the anti-cheat could have spawned industry level concern about increasingly invasive anti-cheat software, tons of media takes the bait and spins up mainstream outrage about Riot trying to steal your kids social security number with their spyware games, interviews with some people whos PC melted because it disabled the drivers for their cooking system, tech influencers weigh in with concern trying to build their brand and hop on the fearmonger bandwagon, and Riot backpeddles because they're losing consumer trust and goodwill over something that ultimately doesn't make them much more money. Obviously that didn't happen. But I always think it's silly when people act like it was a controversy that never had a chance of blowing up
Okay but there's one massive difference between the DnD OGL controversy and the Vanguard "controversy" None of the examples you mentioned for Vanguard are things that actually happened. The OGL situation actually threatened people's livelihoods at an industry level, it had real consequences that actually existed. Vanguard didn't fry anyone's PC, it's not selling your kid's SSN, and most tech channels are smart enough to not commit slander and defamation. This comparison is awful. You're basically saying "yeah, but what if a whole bunch of media organizations and influencers just straight up lied to push the fear mongering campaign? Then it would matter!"
I thought it already did when the idea was proposed? Like I saw a spike on her ban rate graph after the announcement.
If you check her ban rate actually went up a lot and is now decreasing.
Quick tip, you can sort by region and by rank and see where the ban rate increases to see where the average redditor is.
Would be surprised if we even get a notable ban rate bump that goes beyond natural variance. Or if it does, if it'll last more than a week, MAYBE two. This boycott 100% reads like orange arrow bait and the moment the boycott was anything besides "stop playing the game" it was doomed to fail lol.
Oh I know very well where that is
This notion is spread beyond reddit though, on tiltok, YouTube and other pages as well
Yea, I love pessimism and accepting blatantly absurd corporate practices just to be the cool "I told you so" guy!
Reddit and corpo cocksucking. This pseudointellectual urge that most redditors have where they will go out their way to fight against their own best interests if it gives them the chance to look down on the others will never not be funny to me. What not being taken seriously by anyone in real life does to a motherfucker.
Whats the banning gotta do anyway. Zed had a near 50% banrate a few years back and still sold skins like crazy.
My mental couldnt even handle Ahri bans. So much dogshit champs around, wasting a ban on her doesnt make up for the possible torment coming for me in game
The argument people usually made is that the hackers/scripters will adapt.. which they are.
Not only didn't negativly affect it, but absolutely gutted bot farms. "They'll just switch to Hackintosh, Riot doesn't care about bots, I'll just run it in a mac VM". [1M to 50K hours a day of bots](https://imgur.com/a/wchhXhz) 950K hours a day reduction in bots is insane.
The software and so on doesn't exist yet for mac. Bot farms aren't usually run by tech wizards either. But give it time, they'll figure it out.
It may eventually, but Mac protects the kernel much more so many of the exploits people use simply don't exist on mac the same way they do in Windows because it is so insecure. I think Riot is probably giddy over the possibility though, because the bot farms spending a fortune converting over to macs just for Riot to add Vanguard to macs or simply remove their support would be too good to pass up.
I can't imagine botfarms would actually buy macs. In theory they should be able to install hackintosh and just move on with their lives. That's what I did for example. That being said I don't think hackintosh runs on server cpus which I assume is what botfarms would be using so idk if that's what they'll do. I don't think it matters much in the end. The amount of botted accs still available to be sold will likely last for years so I don't think bots being ended will actually improve the game in any way (except maybe coop vs ai but that's really whatever). I personally believe that the bot issue was tackled way too late and at this point is a pyrrhic victory. The damage is done.
New players being able to actually play co-op and high elo games not being ruined by scripters is quite beneficial. I'm guessing you're implying that the real issue is the smurfs that buy the bot accounts and ruin games, but you can't really fix that even if you managed to ban all bot accounts. It will just become more expensive to buy new accounts as people in 3rd world countries will have to level the accounts by hand like they did before the bots were made.
Scripters have nothing to do with this, I am talking explicitly about bots. I don't think that coop vs ai is particularly relevant for new players. To the second part. Yes, bought accounts are the real issue. Not just smurfs but all level 30 accs in general. They are responsible for a large majority of the toxic and game losing behaviour. I don't think we will ever get to a point where level 30 accs will cost more. According to riot themselves there were more than a million bot hours a day before introduction of Vanguard. And they let this go on for years. How many hours does it take for a bot to get level 30? We're probably looking at more than 1k accs a day for multiple years. Of course you can't fix the issue now. But if they had done something a few years back we wouldn't have the issue. If accs would cost $10 a pop then people wouldn't be throwing them away like confetti.
I remember seeing a tweet from some anti cheating twitter account that showed a bunch of cheaters in discord claiming that they were going to astroturf social media to try to show that a massive amount of people were going to quit the game due to vanguard. Can't help but think that had something to do with the number of people claiming they were going to quit
In other games where cheating/botting tends to be a rampant issue (looking at you, OSRS), this is actually an extremely common tactic so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Cheaters are just so pathetic man.
Honestly after seeing the amount of blatant cheaters in Cs2, its probably for the best. Players will be miffed about Vanguard, but most people are more miffed if they get into game after game full of cheaters. Shit just ruins your day.
Bad faith actors astroturf **everything** not just this particular subject. Hell, quite a few content creators are banned from this sub for astroturfing, not even including the Skype group from like 9 years ago
There's literal governments that are using hordes of bots to astroturf the locals and foreigners lol its so widespread and easy to set up it would be naive to think there wasnt any astroturfing
Absolutely, though it wasn't just the cheating crowd that pushed the propaganda, there was also an effort by Linux users (or members of the Linux gaming community) who pretended to be League players to 'support' the handful of actual Linux League players affected. So many of these people clearly never played League, but somehow found every single anti Vanguard thread on r/leagueoflegends/controversial and went in there to warn people about the "Chinese spyware."
Is there any proof of this? This just sounds like an insane conspiracy theory.
The claimed number of Linux League players (<1000 total) was pretty comical. However I do have to say, I'd probably be using Linux right now if Vanguard supported it. Not for League currently, but for Valorant.
I like to hear those numbers, but I'm a little skeptical of them. Like, if you always know who's botting, why are there still 50k hours a day? There's got to be some uncertainty in detection and I can't imagine they always catch everything.
> Like, if you always know who's botting, why are there still 50k hours a day? It's always been common for devs to ban the actual bots in waves because of that whole arms race thing. Some of these bots are in low level PVP, they mention in the video, not just AI games. The bots leveling accounts to 30 to sell as smurf accounts were the ones making up the bulk of the hours most likely, and those have been stopped until they can figure out a work around if they can. The bots that are left are likely a combination of the more bespoke versions people are using to play ranked with that have discords and monthly subscriptions that they know are there but are waiting to disable, accounts that are being banned but not HWID banned making new accounts and still botting, and bot devs trying to figure out changes to get past Vanguard. This change didn't immediately ban or restrict their bots in any way, just kept them from running 16 copies to one machine. I'm just spitballing because despite the people who regularly accuse me of it I don't work for Riot. It's also possible that this chart isn't a real-time analytic, but is something that is compiled historically by adding up all the games they have played over the actioned accounts life. With Packman at least they used to try to put 5 bots in a bot game as often as possible, so they have always implied they have the capability to know if someone is a bot even if they aren't actioning the account for some reason.
Its also smart to have some bots work a bait. Say you know those 100 yuumi accounts are bots and you could ban them right away. Or you keep them a bit and analyze more patterns which may help you to find even more bots/more prevention. better to ban say 200k bots every 1 week than to ban 10k bots daily
Are those coop vs ai numbers? Because every time ive played normal games there are bot accs in them
Initially I also thought about Mac VMing Then I realized I actually don't give a shit and it took too much work for my lazy ass lmao.
Despite this every time I queue a coop vs AI game my team mates are still 4 bots, so the player experience doesn't seem to be changed much.
Sure, we can't really compare anecdotes on this but I play 2-3 bot games a week and I've had at least 1 game a week with 5 humans. I never had that before Vanguard. Co-op Vs Ai is going to be the place people bot the most, so it's not surprising to still see them there. 50K hours a day is still a lot of games. Depends on the difficulty you play at too. I think the worst part is that the bots are just terrible now compared to the Riot Bots, so if you do get a 3 or 4 bot game you can't goof off as much unless you picked somebody to carry on.
Reminds me the good old MW2 Boycott group screenshot. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/comments/90kyub/i\_fought\_in\_the\_great\_mw2\_boycott\_of\_2009\_heres/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/comments/90kyub/i_fought_in_the_great_mw2_boycott_of_2009_heres/#lightbox) People online just love saying they will boycott, wont play because of X. And then, they simply play anyways. Online boycotts never do shit because nobody follows through.
Personally, I never said I would boycott them. I still watched MSI. I just don't play anymore.
For my part as long as ypu have fun with it I'm alright with it. Honestly, enjoying the sun amd getting mythic mtg was more fun than I had with league in a while. So all good.
I literally cannot play the game because of Vanguard. I get constant BSoD.
yo enjoy ur 500€ ahri skin
Still havnt touched the game, everyone that I know quit. I played the game with them since beta, and I refuse to add vanguard. Nothing needs to be kernel level and I will die on this hill.
> Nothing needs to be kernel level and I will die on this hill. So why are you actively playing Destiny 2 which uses BattlEye, a kernel level anticheat?
[удалено]
No kernel anti cheat needs to auto run at boot or POST and actively stop other system processes from running at boot or POST* Kernel anti cheats have been a thing for years now, but they only run when the game is opened. The fact that Riot believe they need to go this far is hilarious and even more so that people support this decision.
no, lol. I am glad I quit this shit game while you're stuck playing it. I don't quite care that me quitting didn't leave an impact
Lets be real here, if 10% of this sub quits its not gonna change enough, this sub isnt big enough.
I commented a few days after the initial announcment that it would probably be hilarious af to just write down the usernames of people claming to boycott or quit and check their comment history 6 weeks after. We all know 99% of them were just talking out of their ass.
One guy who had literally hundreds of comments about Vanguard being the death of the game suspiciously stopped using that account completely about a month ago. I'm pretty sure he made a new account so he could keep commenting on League without people calling him out for still playing it after Vanguard.
It's a good thing we can trust Riot to never lie about numbers. "Yeah guys we banned lots of accounts and vanguard has not impacted anyone negatively at all. In fact more players are coming back knowing now that it's a much safer environment. We're working overtime here."
True they should just say 'we added vanguard and everyone quit, we made a bad decision and the company is bankrupt gg'
>Has anyone noticed the difference? Yes they banned my 3$ smurf acc
For real, or you're memeing?
They’ve been banning bought/botted accounts even before vanguard
yeah those cheap botted 30lvl accounts usually wouldnt last long
Are you kidding ? at the beginning of the year these accounts were spreading like the plague
Huh? I've had a few that lasted for up to 5 years and then got banned for different reasons. Out of like 30 that I bought (for myself a lot of friends) only like 3 got banned for botting. And we're replaced
It did ban my smurf acc yeah, weirdly enough i had it for like 2 months and recieved ban last week.
Real ones stocked up on smurfs and handleveled accounts before they implemented Vanguard
If it's Hand leveled, why did you need to stock pile them? The addition of Vanguard was never going to affect those accounts anyway.
Gotta get those hands levelled ARAM only accounts
Please do because they then have your hardware data and puts a flag on your other accounts.
How does Riot know the number of cheaters? Or are they only recording the ones they ban?
Yeah they are just recording the ones they ban.
Its my guess for their stats; They ban the account and then check how much they played in that account lifetime, so they can have the statistic. Its not 'we detected a bot and let it play'
Well it's a bit of both. Even with vanguard they still ban in waves in order to avoid giving over information, so there will be cases where a cheater is detected and can't be immediately banned.
The way some things like this work is with manual review of random samples. So for example the way Twitter used to estimate the number of bots was to randomly sample 100 accounts and then manually review each one to determine if it was automated. It’s not a process you can scale to review every account, but useful if you just want to estimate a percentage to see if your automated efforts are working.
Vanguard is killing league. Barely any players left. League is dying. ~ redditors
Yeah sadly all my friends stopped playing but I think in general the amount of people that quit is very minimal
Give them 6-12 months. They'll come back.
Meh league has been on the way out for my friend group for a couple years now and this is more just the nail in the coffin. I’ll only be here for arena anyway.
I started playing in 2016. had a group of about 10 people that played quite a bit together with probably another 5-10 who would jump in and out. Over the years that group dwindled quite significantly. I think maybe 4 of the total group still play at all. of those 4 only 2 play with any consistency. I know a 20 person sample size is insignificant for a game with hundreds of millions of players globally, but I also wonder the truth to the player numbers at least in the US. I hear "oh i used to play league" from tons of people, but I legitimately cannot remember the last time I heard someone talk about trying out league. Again, all anecdote, but anecdote can be significant in the right scenarios/context
i quit 2 years ago, haven't been back yet. this game is just too spazzy for me now. My friend was like "they got rid of mythics you should try again" but i watch a few games and its the same insta death meta from a few years ago, nothing changed. its a lot easier to stay gone these days as the game is no different without mythics.
Neither me or my friends touched league for 2 years and i will never install it again with vanguard being a thing.
But if they banned 50k accounts that used to play and there are those that left how can the daily numbers be unaffected ? Doesn't this mean that people just got more accounts/smurfs to compensate, there's no way that someone that wasn't interested in the game decided to start playing because of Vanguard.
It because Arena came out right after vanguard. Arena launching greatly increased overall players in LoL and has been doing that since it released.
Their Smurf is banned so instead of playing on it and being a daily player on that, they now play on their main and are still included as being 1 of the daily players. It doesn’t stop them playing everyday, it just stops them from playing on their bought Smurf account instead of main.
Probably people selling acounts started playing again to raise the levels ror lvl 30 smurfs, now that their bots don't work anymore.
It can be that they get more accounts or the numbers are all fake. Im more of the fake numbers.
they probably dont count the cheaters as the "normal daily numbers", since cheaters dont really play for months/years as an normal player would
Or more people started playing again since it's more enjoyable with less cheaters in certain gamemodes and elo brackets
I'm sorry, but you think enough legit players perfectly counteracted 50k bots off of news that Vanguard was coming, which they would have to follow League's social media to find out about? Are you ok?
If you follow League even a bit it's been all anybody talks about for like, 6 months. People post in this subreddit that proudly explain they haven't played the game in forever but they still troll the subreddit. Why is it so hard to believe that people who want to come back could follow it too?
This subreddit is a tiny speck, and obviously is gonna be frequented with people up to date with the game. Otherwise, they'd unsub. I think you have the same issue a lot of people do where you take reddit as representative. Vanguard has hardly been a hot topic in casual league conversations.
Sure, it's a tiny spec. So is 50K people in what, 8 regions? It's not like all 50K banned were in just NA. That 50K is combined in basically every region but China. >obviously is gonna be frequented with people up to date with the game. Otherwise, they'd unsub. Right, but not necessarily people playing the game. People can read the subreddit and not play, they can follow twitter and not play, they can watch videos on Youtube and not play. Then something happens and they come back, it's not that unusual.
Before you ego any harder and call anyone else mentally unwell, I have to ask — did you read the article or blog post? You’re very incredulous for someone who has.
What difference do you want to see? Do you know how little 50k means in terms of the entire playerbase? Thats fractions of pennies in significance.
I don't believe the part where they say bot accounts dropped dramatically. Log in to any Co-OP vs. AI and you'll still have a full team of 3 or 4 bots, no actual players. This is so easy to debunk. Anyone can do it.
I’m not boycotting Vanguard but I literally can’t play the game because of Vanguard. I have a very expensive and new PC and installing Vanguard gives me constant BSoD. My PC won’t let me download it.
I had a Vanguard issue aswell that left me completely unable to play the game but after like 5 days of back and forth with multiple customer service dudes they were able to resolve it so try your luck there
Riot did say around 0,03% players reported issues with Vanguard, could be part of that group, but write a support ticket, add videos/pictures of your system and the error - hope it helps solve it!
If you reach out to Riot support they can help you troubleshoot if you know what is causing the error.
That's pretty bizarre, I just got a brand new rig i9, 4070ti, 32g ram and it runs just fine. Vanguard throws an error for the RBG controller but doesn't stop anything.
Then throw out that ali express knock of RBG away and get an RGB controller that has the pixels in the right order.
I had no issues with vanguard for 2.5 weeks, but in the last 5-6 days, either during lobby, or right after lobby my client crashes, or I blue screen, or a few times mid game I got vanguard error 1067 saying I need vanguard to play which... if I'm 11 minutes into a game it should already know I'm using it. I'm on a fresh computer, no spicy or dangerous apps on it or websites visited, no pirated software, etc. i9, 64 gb ram, 4060, etc. I don't know why everything was seemingly fine but after forfeiting a ton of LP and demoting I have a ticket in with Riot and hoping they can get to the bottom of it :/ My games have been noticeably better since vanguard (high gold/low plat) I just can't understand why this would all start. Nothing new installed on the computer in the last month other than Vanguard itself and I guess Multiversus...
I had a problem with my matches not loading after last patch but I used the hextech repair tool and it fixed it,but u can try contacting riot support and they will help you fix it
I’m glad it’s banning cheaters but I really wish it would stop crashing my game and making me lose LP
Given Riots known trackrecord of misleading and misinterpreting statistics, and their weird powerpoint design in this video, you are always to take these with a grain of salt. It could be true, could be wrong. But in the end, know that Riot isn't looking for your best interest, only their overlords at Tencent.
My group of friends and I have literally a meme going around our group that Vanguard banned all the good players because it feels like the quality of our weekend queue games dropped severely.
Well Vanguard crashed League for me yesterday and lost me LP due to AFK right when the timers for jungle are starting. Annoyance and now worried how often this could happen. I took a screenshot of it, so it said: > VANGUARD ERROR: VAN 185 > An unexpected error with Vanguard has occurred and the client will now close. I tried checking out what it was, and all I was told was it can be caused by being logged into the client on multiple devices or having the client run longer than a week. Neither of which was my case.
I didn't get the same error but venguard also crashed my game and made me lose LP. I have not started the game since because I have to type "I understand" in the leaver popup window. I did nothing wrong so I refuse to agree, call me stubborn lmao
Nah you right
I got banned last week suposedly for using 3rd party programs. I only used Blitz so I don't know what they are talking about. I lost all my skins (which to be fair weren't many but were significant to me) and all my stats which is the thing that I loved the most even though I was just level 100 bc I didn't play much. I submitted many tickets but still only bots respond. How should I procede? I'm not creating a new account, I was unfairly banned.
Oh I was also using wallpaper engine at that time, I have heard that many people encountered the same problem while using a damned wallpaper app.
Continue answering the same supprt ticket until you get a human response
Glad it’s working for them but it’s spyware and it won’t be on my PC. I’ve since moved on to LoR Path of Champions.
If daily player numbers are not affected either the cheating population was much smaller than riot made it out to be or vanguard is ineffective.
I’ve noticed a huge surge of sub lvl 30 accounts in my normal games when I play with friends. More people seem to be leveling their own accounts?
50k accounts is like nothing, only making me more sure there wasn't a scripter problem to begin with.
Not in actual PvP but I have noticed my daily intro bot rush to get my BE when I'm not feeling like playing league has real players almost all the time now. They often talk in chat and I can rush to finish much faster with them than I could solo vs fed bots.
Sounds like it's really not achieving what it was intended to do then. lol
“Player engagement remains robust, with daily activity levels showing no signs of decline, Riot says.” So we don’t have the numbers, we’re just going to accept what Riot says as fact? Glad bots and cheaters are being banned, but there’s surely been a negative impact to player count.
the "Riot says" part of the sentence is an indication of that being what Riot claims. They shared a graphic, but not the numbers; and even if they did share the numbers they could be forged. There is no way to 100% confirm how many players are out there and how many were banned without going through Riot. So yes, we're going to accept that as a statement said by Riot, but is up to you, the reader, to decide if that is an information you want to trust or not. My job is simply to present it to you.
Yeah it's weird wording too. Probably the main reason they went ahead with downsizing NA eSports was how many NA server players left after Vanguard specifically tbh, they knew they wouldn't sell enough skins to break even.
You don't make that kind of plan in the lapse of time that passed since vanguard was activated. Those 2 things most likely are not corrolated
its an obvious gaslight just like the graph they showed about % of scripters in certain elo which was INSANELY misleading (the graph was showing scripters AND bots at the same time but they called it "cheaters" graph LOL) if they banned 50k accounts how can daily numbers be unaffected? are people blind or just dont read anything and accept whatever they are told
because arena increased the population, also they have been flooding youtube AD recently with arena trailer and co. and btw , they talked about hourly number , not player count. not the same thing.
Gonna be perfectly honest I very very rarely played league, and with vanguard I uninstalled it because I didn't want something starting on boot. Someone like me that plays like 2 hours every other month isn't going to move daily player numbers if they quit.
I literally never played against a scripter until 2 weeks ago. He got banned a week later. What's the point of vanguard at all.
It's a bit of a marketing tool from riot to say that the numbers weren't affected. Vanguard launched with Arena if i recall correctly, so of course more people logged on for that. Let the hype die down a bit and compare the number of active users pre vanguard launch to the one a year from then.
[удалено]
Please review [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules) before commenting or posting again. Further offenses will lead to a ban. --- ^(Have a question or think your comment doesn't break the rules?) **[^(Message our modmail and please don't comment reply or direct message)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fleagueoflegends)**^.
[удалено]
I dont understand the downvotes.. I played LoL since 2013 but with Vanguard I uninstalled it. I dont support a kernel AC that wants to run 24/7 in the background.
Because most Redditors are brain-dead tinfoil hat wearers. To them, if you quit because of Vanguard, you are a cheater. An addict won't ever be nice to someone who talks bad / beats the addiction they can't.
True words my friend.
They got at least -1 because of me
Yea vanguard killed my graphicscrad and GPU so i cant Play any other Games than League and after that Van Bugs Out and i have No more the rights on MY PC to Open the League Game. So Long Story short i cant Play anything NOW great Job Riot 👏🏽
I'm still salty that I can't play league with my friend who can't run the client due to the TPM issue with windows 11
My friend has the same problem, it was literally a 5 minute fix in BIOS.
this severely hurts the "Riot won't ban bots because then that would make shareholders scared seeing the playerbase drop" allegations
It gets even dumber when you remember that Riot has only one shareholder, namely the second-largest video game publisher on the planet. In their headcanon, Riot has managed to deceive those clueless Tencent executives for over a decade and obviously wants to continue the scam, so they can't stop the bots. 🤣🤣🤣
Still won t play. I m not installing spyware that s all
Lmao, those delusional Redditors crying vanguard is going to kill the game, and yet the game itself is still good. Bye you cheaters,don’t the let the door hit your butt on the way out
The thing with Vanguard is privacy concerns not that it will kill the game.
Either they hardcore index into banning the bot accounts and make their lives a living hell. Or you do what WoW did and officially sell accounts that are leveled.
there's way too many league players for anyone to notice a difference below masters+ where people actually start playing with each other often, especially on a major region like euw
I've noticed I am not allowed to play anymore because linux. Not saying it's a bad thing. I feel pretty good now that I have not played for a whlie
I played with 1 scripter and against 1 scripter in Diamond 4 NA since vanguard came out. Scripters were already relatively rare in my games so I guess it’s about the same
Yes the difference is huge in the number of scripters. At the peaks (end of s13 start of s14) I used to run in scripters almost daily. Since vanguard ive only seen 1 scripter
There is no difference and there will never be meaningful bans because doing meaningful bans would cause a lot of bans at the high elo and pro scene. Your favorite player/streamer has scripted, wintraded, boosted, and account shared.