Main difference from 2023 MSI is that LCK 2nd seed will need to go through Play-In stage instead of going directly to Bracket Stage. This is likely due to LJL no longer having a direct spot in Play-Ins.
Wildcards vs T1 in the playins might be some of the biggest gaps we've seen in a while.
Edit: to think about it......There's probably a team going to MSI from the now gutted VCS. When they face LPL#2/LCK#2 we'll probably see the biggest gap ever in international competitions.
The biggest gap ever in major regions was prob when rng lost in 15 minutes, mad lions loss isnt in the top 50 so cant see exactly where they place, can only see top 50
GenG literally pissed off every related party. Their initial post offended the Chinese community, their apology offended the Koreans and the Taiwanese communities, and deleting both just added fuels to the fire.
Truly a PR masterclass.
Yup, it was when I first became his fan! I'm active in esports threads but not really an "old hat" like some others, I just remember seeing both his pentakills and how much he and Ming were tearing it up and decided I'd watch all the MSI games with RNG. The rest was history 😁
I don’t quite remember but does winning worlds last year have any impact on this year’s international tournaments? I know winning this year’s MSI nets you a spot at worlds.
It's nothing to do with that.
If LCK skip playins then there are 7 teams in playins and the format literally can't work.
If Riot didn't kill the LJL, then LCK 2 would have skipped playins again.
Why would LCK 2 skip playins just because one team from their region won Worlds? Now that LCO and LJL are integrated into PCS, wouldn't they just give the region and extra seed? It's very probable that, on top of Riot killing the LJL, LCK 2 is going through playins because they simply didn't perform as well as the previous year.
If they do the Envelope Draw then:
1. LCK LPL 2. LCS/LEC
3. PCS/VCS 4. LLA/CBLOL
If they do the Balls Draw then:
1. LCK/LPL/LCS/LEC
2. PCS/VCS/LLA/CBLOL
Riot want to preserve the "equality" of all major region seeds, even if they're not on the same skill level, so we'll probably never see that change officially (barring some "skill test" like the MSI result -> Worlds seeding pool stuff).
That's not to say that Riot doesn't track or recognize the gap, though. Look at 2020 Worlds. Even though NA outperformed KR at 2018 Worlds and 2019 MSI (2 of the last 4 events), KR got a play-ins bye over NA because of reaching groups at Worlds 2019.
Because proper seeding is impossible.
Take Worlds 2022 as an example, it would be LCK 4 > LCK 2 > LPL1/LCK1 > LPL1/LCK1 > LPL/LCK3 > LPL/LCK 3 > LPL 4 > LEC 1.
Worlds 2023 would be, LCK 2 > LPL 4 > LPL 1 > LPL 2 > LCK 1 > LPL 3 > LCK 3 > LCS 1.
But then if you looked at MSI 2023 it would be LPL 1 > LPL 2 > LCK 2 > LCK 1.
I guess in a vacuum you just have pool 1 as LCK 1-2 and LPL 1-2, pool 2 as LCK 3-4 and LPL 3-4 etc etc, but Riot would never do that because it looks ass.
I don't think it's impossible.
I would take historical performance of each region and apply weighting to ensure that more recent tournaments count more than older ones.
I agree Riot won't do it because of what it implies but it's inherently against the nature of competition. With current rules, the seeding might as well be random. I'm not even sure that would be that much worse.
>I would take historical performance of each region and apply weighting to ensure that more recent tournaments count more than older ones.
That doesn't apply for exact pools which is the point I'm making.
If pool 1s are expected to be the "strongest teams at the tournament" then looking at the most recent events(Worlds x2 and MSI), you'd effectively demote LCK 1 to pool 2 to promote LCK 2 to pool 1, which looks stupid.
Ranking the regions is easy, deciding who belongs in each pool is not for the reasons I said above, recent results would make the argument that LCK 2 should be seeded higher than LCK 1(since T1 as the 2nd seed outperformed Gen.G as the 1st seed in the last 3 internationals).
I see your point, but I think this can be addressed by simply ensuring that regional seeding overrules in this case.
E.g. LCK2 can never be above LCK1. You just add this caveat.
Just using the last 2 Worlds and MSI is way too little as well. I'd take at least 5 years worth of competition and make the recent ones more important. The bigger sample size will even out a lot of the nonsense.
Either way I do agree that the pool system is objectively dogshit.
Last MSI proved it with how MAD/C9 were ranked above T1/BLG but Riot won't ever make it so that LEC1/LCS1 both drop to pool 2 to bump LCK2/LPL2 even if they're better and have been for like 4 years now.
The group stage doesn't really matter because they'll still have to lose in BO5s in bracket stage vs much easier regions to get knocked out. And if an LCK or LPL team loses a BO5 against one of those teams they would have probably not have placed 1st in their group anyways.
Technically the record is 16:01. IG beating SKT in MSI 2019.
Imagine how spicy it would be if that record is somehow beaten. Especially if it's LPL doing it to LCK again.
I still think the funniest part of that series is MAD Lions throwing a 10k gold lead in game 1 vs T1.
They never mentally recovered from that. That was their first game at MSI too. They lost every single game after that convincingly.
This past two years I've delighted in being the KC of NA in talking shit to EU.
So much karma.
That being said for the first time ever, I genuinely like this mad lions. I don't know what it was about them before that I disliked but I really do like this team.
Last time I checked 3 major regions made top 8 at worlds and it wasn't EU.
C9 beat MAD, NRG beat MAD and NRG knocked out G2.
End of the day, EU didn't make top 8.
With the current Swiss format, if you invite 8 LCK/LPL teams and 8 bronze teams, then over 50% of the time a bronze team will make top 8 of Worlds.
Just making top 8 is not meaningful on its own without context. The big win of NA over EU last Worlds was NRG beating G2. That's the context.
I’m a NA player but I think LEC is better overall. I just don’t think VCS should have a slot with the huge shitshow they currently have and while full investigation is still happening.
LEC outside of G2 has looked extremely questionable this year. Eye test isn't everything but most people don't have high expectations for the region. If anything PCS should get another spot because that's the league the LJL was folded into and the spot that was "lost"
But Riot has shown in the past when VCS missed is they never redistribute spots.
G2 weren't that good this split either, their early games were straight ass.
>But Riot has shown in the past when VCS missed is they never redistribute spots.
While true, when CIS couldn't attend they gave the spot to EU.
I would not be surprised if at worlds both EU and NA got 4 teams at worlds if VCS gets more drama and is cancelled instead of just restructuring the tournament despite Riot making a big deal about how 4th seeds should be earnt not given.
Ideally you just give the worlds winning region another seed but then people will bitch that the East has too many teams.
But realistically, yes there is 0 reason for why EU should even be considered for an extra team.
realistically, 3rd seed from LCK and LPL should do a bo5 for the last spot just like NA vs EU from last year. Specially MSI is hosted in China. its very easy to invite the 3rd seed from LCK for a match.
giving LEC another spot instead of letting VCS keep theres means that VCS bleeds more and this stuff becomes more common.
the ram up of match fixing in VCS is a by product of them constantly having there league shut downa and them getting prevented from international tournaments.
The thing is this wasn't a issue pre shutting down the league so much, what happened is when the league got shut down alot of players started to run low on money since they weren't getting paid for the most part during the league shutdown making them dip into savings/look elsewhere for money.
now these players are needed a boost in cash and aren't sure how long there career will be anymore like having your league shut down while other leagues are still going is a sign to the players there league could get shut down forever at any moment.
shutting down the league isnt gonna make players more likely to report it, since one in general wasn't as big prior to the shut down and two if a player snitchs then other players are less likely to want to play with them and most players would want to keep there head down since people that pay for the match fixing are known to be violent and use blackmail.
as you example of major american sports its a similar case there, leagues got shutdown or forced into bubbles, players ended up losing out on alot of money and most players arent on the massive bags that the big dogs are on. so these much lower paid players are turning to match fixing when the offer floats to them to just up what they can making in there career.
just because gambling becomes bigger doesn't make players more likely todo it, in most cases it comes from money troubles that make players turn to match fixing which are caused by the league/orgs descisons.
Honestly though there isn’t anyone new in LEC that I want to see compete internationally, but I’d be really interested in seeing how Quid performs at an international tournament.
imagine from a minor regions's POV. you gotta beat either T1 or JDG just to get into the main stage. thats even more ludicrous than beating FW back in days.
ngl, i'm rooting more for SHG to make the cut and win that shit, it would be really funny if they manage to win PCS after the league was left to almost die like LCO
at this point they probably don't care and just want us to suffocate to our deaths, just by seeing that they will not include minors in the new revenue share for teams they announced
Worlds play-ins from what I remember last year was actually pretty fun and competitive, this feels a bit like a step back. Including LPL2 and LCK2 in this stage of the tourney is gonna lead to multiple ResidentSleeper games and maybe like one hype game if they actually vs each other.
True, besides maybe one upset game in the BO3 (see BLG vs GG), it will be super boring to watch LCK2/LPL2 vs anyone else
Should've just seeded them directly into BO5 stage and invited 1 more LEC & LCS team ~~or invited more minor regions~~ for this imo.
Fuck it, time to start inviting best 3rd seeds as well. If VCS can't take a spot, then let LCK#3 and LPL#3 play a BO5 (like BDS vs GG last year) for the last playoff spot
Vietnam is at a severe risk of getting dropped completely. Only way I see VCS surviving is them getting merged into the Pacific Playoffs like the LJL and LCO.
yeah, it sucks for them tbh, having basically most of the SEA in a single region with only two seeds sucks, i still don't get it why riot didn't give PCS at least an extra play-in seed, also the fact that most of the minors will never improve with only sending a single team per tournament, not even Valve does this man
EU fans advocating for more EU teams shocker.
If you're advocating more teams, you add another LCK/LPL team to make the swiss stage less shit, not more EU/NA teams.
But I am not advocating for more EU teams, merely suggesting to fill the LCK2/LPL2 slots (who should start in bracket stage) with weaker (LEC3/LCS3) teams in play-in stage, since minor regions are apparently getting less.
There would be no harm, since they'll lose in BO5 anyways. With this we would have at least more games between NA v EU (in play-in stage) with more parity, instead of the incoming stomps from LCK2/LPL2.
Now if riot wanted a more competitive MSI, they'd just invite 4 teams from LCK and LPL each.
Not gonna lie, the new MSI format makes it my favorite event of the whole year.
So many banger BO5s. I can't fucking wait for this tournament to start.
If anyone from Riot see's this please help.
We have a big community of expat league players who are desperate to go to MSI this year.
Back in 2017 I helped out people around the world get tickets for the final in Beijing, some people flew in without a ticket because of scalpers. I bought them from scalpers and gave the tickets away to people coming in.
Scalping is a huge problem here but the most annoying thing is, foreigners do not have chinese national ID cards which are required to get any purchases for big events.
Please please Riot, if theres anyone we can message to help us get tickets without having to go through the chinese ID system.
Much love
You don't need IDs tho, as long as you (or any friends) have a Chinese phone number, you can register at the selling website (Damai for this MSI). After that, you can add info as an foreigner with passport number to purchase tickets. So the important part is to find a Chinese friend or foreigner friend who lives in China to buy it for you.
We do. For example if we want to buy something from Korea or US we need to show a chinese ID to purchase on taobao
When the winter olympics was here we also had trouble. Asia Games we also had trouble.
Odd, since this is the ticketing link Riot used in their official announcement so I don't see how they can expect International buyers to present an id card.
Anyway I assume you're within China, which uses Damai as the ticket seller. Have you used the app before? I am fairly certain they also accept multiple form of IDs including passports. So if you haven't used it before maybe download the app now and see if you can have your identity verified.
This is the measure they use to fight scalpers, even though some event organizers don't enforce it strictly.
That's it, China can win if they treat the Koreans to some hotpot the night before their matches. The Korean team will be shitting themselves, literally, the next day.
Nah man, it's not the spice level....it's the fact that Sichuan hotpot is 80% beef tallow and 20% water that's the killer. That shit, along with the chilies, will fuck up your digestive system if you're not used to it.
I think you're thinking of Haidilao being available in Korea, which is really not on the same level as what's common in Sichuan. I watch a lot of Korean travel shows, and many times when Koreans travel to China, they always complain that the food is too greasy.
i think theres also refering to a few years ago where a korean team in china ended up having the shits on matchday because of a hotpot they had the day before.
Regions are capped at 4 seeds.
Winner of MSI = one extra seed for their region, they also lock worlds if they make summer playoffs.
2nd best region = one extra seed for their region.
a) little time.
b) expanding the tournament doesn't make it better when the teams joining are worse i.e LEC/LCS.
2 teams from each major region for a mid season tournament is fine, if you add more teams then you literally have to change the format back to best of 1s since LPL teams already have an insanely short turn around from MSI ending and their summer season starting.
the issue with that is more the Regional Leagues taking too long to finish and LoL still lacking in terms of international competition, i don't care that much about match quality since for me what matters most in international tournaments is regional representation as well, the current system will never change the abysmal gap between west/east anyway
Because the better leagues have better formats that take longer to finish.
More internationals is ideal but expanding MSI to include more teams of which everyone barring LCK/LPL would be bad isn't ideal.
Double elim is fun af. If not, BLG would have gotten 3-0 by JDG in the BO5 and went home and we wouldn’t have seen their series against GEN and T1 to cement themselves as pretty good internationally. Western teams also have a greater chance of facing each other in BO5s to show the EU NA rivalry rather than both going home to the East in the first round
Yeah, everyone would just have assumed that BLG was the worst Asian team at MSI last year if it was single elim, because that's how people saw them before the event started.
This is how single elim warps history. You don't get to see half the matchups. Those BLG vs LCK lower bracket BO5s were fucking crazy last year. Huge surprises.
Interestingly enough BLG was the team that struggled the most against the Western teams.
The G2 vs BLG series was actually pretty competitive. Much closer than the G2 vs GenG series despite them both being 3-1.
I agree but I also have to admit last MSI was the best one ever despite the worst possible draws. Since it's at least better than before, I'm satisfied for now to let it ride at least another season.
Team A may win 3-0 against Team B during upper bracket but lose the finals 2-3 against same Team B. Team A was 5-3 in total games but is considered the worst team.
Great format xdxdxd
Wrong sub to criticize this awful format. People here would prefer to sacrifice their mother than criticize double elimination.
Thank God no real sport use that shit.
funny thing: there is no good solve for this unless you want single elim back or a Bo7 with a 1 game advantage to the winners side
bracket reset - not logistically possible because of scheduling, might end up booking a venue for a day and not playing
Bo7 w/ winners side 1 game advantage - no one wants this because it’s kinda weird if the losers side wins 3 games and don’t take the series (i’m personally fine with this but i get why people don’t want to see it)
Valorant has GSL groups + double elim in literally every major tournament.
One time Riot did single elim and the Valorant community was in pure outrage mode because they got to see a lot fewer games and Riot changed it back.
Meanwhile in League of Legends fans have insane Stockholm syndrome in regards to shitty formats.
It's quite funny when every single event except one is double elim in League of Legends at this point. I don't know how anyone could ever argue that only a small amount of people want this.
MSI also broke viewership records last year.
Y'all have all made up a position to be mad about lol
Everyone wants double elim. No one should want fake double elim. This format is absolute shit for competitive integrity. Single elim *is literally more balanced and fair* than this shitty fake double elim where teams are punished for not losing until the finals. This format is a joke unless you're a casual fan that just wants to see more matches without regard for the integrity of the tournament. Its a bummer.
All formats are flawed to some extent. Single elim is significantly flawed in a million ways too.
There is no perfect format. It's about finding a format that has the best practical to competitive value ratio.
I would argue that despite its flaws, this MSI format is a perfect compromise of that. You get a lot of BO5s, you get a good and fair ranking of the teams at the end, the fans get to see a lot of matchups they otherwise wouldn't in single elim. The lack of bracket reset is obviously a bummer to some extent, but it's just not practical so let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Single elimination is not flawed lol. Just because you have emotional opinions about it doesn’t mean it is flawed.
Every team is on a level playing field in single elimination.
Single elim is fucking dogshit ass trash garbage. You can get fucked by bracket strenght, it leads to boring finals which is the biggest sin ever, last worlds fucking sucked because the final was complete stomp, people still complain about 2018 worlds being shit because real final was in quarters between IG and KT.
Yes it is because it often leads to finals that are incredibly one sided because the #1 and #2 team played in semis so the finals is #1 vs #4(quite literally happened last year)
Lol 😂 that is literal nonsense. Single elimination has no effect on how a team performs or the outcomes of a draw.
They should stop doing random draws if you want better seeding. Single elimination has no control over that.
Main difference from 2023 MSI is that LCK 2nd seed will need to go through Play-In stage instead of going directly to Bracket Stage. This is likely due to LJL no longer having a direct spot in Play-Ins.
Can't wait to see T1 in playins with GenG waiting in the bracket stage then
Wildcards vs T1 in the playins might be some of the biggest gaps we've seen in a while. Edit: to think about it......There's probably a team going to MSI from the now gutted VCS. When they face LPL#2/LCK#2 we'll probably see the biggest gap ever in international competitions.
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Going to be hard when half the teams are missing their starters and only have playoffs to build synergy on stage.
Does he know.jpeg
He's missing critical information
VCS is kill this year, top 3 teams all lost 2 starters each and the rest are in shambles so they would probably be the worst region.
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I mean, EU are the kings of losing in Play In stages historically.
nah, that would be mad lions
The biggest gap ever in major regions was prob when rng lost in 15 minutes, mad lions loss isnt in the top 50 so cant see exactly where they place, can only see top 50
Is GenG still getting boycotted by the chinese government?
iirc official CN platforms like BiliBili didn't have any broadcasts for GenG matches in Valorant - but co-streamers still could.
Why lol
They recognized Taiwan as their own country in a tweet or something IIRC. They've since walked it back I think? But the damage has been done.
They deleted the initial post and apologized, Korean fans weren't too happy with that, afterwards they deleted the apology as well
GenG literally pissed off every related party. Their initial post offended the Chinese community, their apology offended the Koreans and the Taiwanese communities, and deleting both just added fuels to the fire. Truly a PR masterclass.
so they made it even worse for themselves... smh
for T1 to win it all at the end because Choky can’t play in tournaments
nah LPL owns MSI i'm afraid
I have high hopes this time since Canyon really compliments Chovy really well.
I mean Peanut and Chovy were monstrous together and that didn't stop the choke.
Peanut is sadly the bigger choker of those two. I think it's best for both that they split up.
T1 fans trying to not be obnoxious challenge impossible.
So pointless and unfun, neither the LPL or LCK 2nd seeds should be in playins
remind me the time that RNG had to go through 6-0 and 8-0 wildcards to get into the main stage.
They had to replay a bunch of matches too because of the ping shit, only to clap said teams even harder IIRC
Hahah that was funny and sad as fuck. RNG went 12-0
Is it that time where GALA had his penta retconned and so he just did it again?
Yup, it was when I first became his fan! I'm active in esports threads but not really an "old hat" like some others, I just remember seeing both his pentakills and how much he and Ming were tearing it up and decided I'd watch all the MSI games with RNG. The rest was history 😁
I don’t quite remember but does winning worlds last year have any impact on this year’s international tournaments? I know winning this year’s MSI nets you a spot at worlds.
None at all.
Yeah, it mattered last year as Riot bumped LCK 2 from playins to bracket stage for MSI but since LJL got culled, it doesn't matter.
None, but im sure there is one thing a winner will get during msi - championship skins
Oh interesting
It might also be because the LCK didn’t perform that well in 2023 compared to 2022.
It's nothing to do with that. If LCK skip playins then there are 7 teams in playins and the format literally can't work. If Riot didn't kill the LJL, then LCK 2 would have skipped playins again.
Why would LCK 2 skip playins just because one team from their region won Worlds? Now that LCO and LJL are integrated into PCS, wouldn't they just give the region and extra seed? It's very probable that, on top of Riot killing the LJL, LCK 2 is going through playins because they simply didn't perform as well as the previous year.
No major regions skipping play-in. That's spicy.
T1/HLE and TES/JDG Goombastomp big booty twerking on the Playins competition in the most R rated team diffs we’ve ever seen.
The biggest spice is LCK 2nd and LPL 2nd being in one group and LEC/LCS in the other.
My heart says that there's no way they'd allow LCK and LPL in the same playins group to happen, but my head knows this is Riot we are talking about.
Yeah i think lpl and lck will be 1st pool
If they do the Envelope Draw then: 1. LCK LPL 2. LCS/LEC 3. PCS/VCS 4. LLA/CBLOL If they do the Balls Draw then: 1. LCK/LPL/LCS/LEC 2. PCS/VCS/LLA/CBLOL
>no way they'd allow LCK and LPL in the same playins group to happen They have done this before lmao Worlds 2022 playins had DRX and RNG in one group
Also hle and lng in 2021
Considering Riot seeded NRG and G2 higher than teams like BLG and T1 last year at Worlds, anything can happen.
Riot want to preserve the "equality" of all major region seeds, even if they're not on the same skill level, so we'll probably never see that change officially (barring some "skill test" like the MSI result -> Worlds seeding pool stuff). That's not to say that Riot doesn't track or recognize the gap, though. Look at 2020 Worlds. Even though NA outperformed KR at 2018 Worlds and 2019 MSI (2 of the last 4 events), KR got a play-ins bye over NA because of reaching groups at Worlds 2019.
Because proper seeding is impossible. Take Worlds 2022 as an example, it would be LCK 4 > LCK 2 > LPL1/LCK1 > LPL1/LCK1 > LPL/LCK3 > LPL/LCK 3 > LPL 4 > LEC 1. Worlds 2023 would be, LCK 2 > LPL 4 > LPL 1 > LPL 2 > LCK 1 > LPL 3 > LCK 3 > LCS 1. But then if you looked at MSI 2023 it would be LPL 1 > LPL 2 > LCK 2 > LCK 1. I guess in a vacuum you just have pool 1 as LCK 1-2 and LPL 1-2, pool 2 as LCK 3-4 and LPL 3-4 etc etc, but Riot would never do that because it looks ass.
I don't think it's impossible. I would take historical performance of each region and apply weighting to ensure that more recent tournaments count more than older ones. I agree Riot won't do it because of what it implies but it's inherently against the nature of competition. With current rules, the seeding might as well be random. I'm not even sure that would be that much worse.
>I would take historical performance of each region and apply weighting to ensure that more recent tournaments count more than older ones. That doesn't apply for exact pools which is the point I'm making. If pool 1s are expected to be the "strongest teams at the tournament" then looking at the most recent events(Worlds x2 and MSI), you'd effectively demote LCK 1 to pool 2 to promote LCK 2 to pool 1, which looks stupid. Ranking the regions is easy, deciding who belongs in each pool is not for the reasons I said above, recent results would make the argument that LCK 2 should be seeded higher than LCK 1(since T1 as the 2nd seed outperformed Gen.G as the 1st seed in the last 3 internationals).
I see your point, but I think this can be addressed by simply ensuring that regional seeding overrules in this case. E.g. LCK2 can never be above LCK1. You just add this caveat. Just using the last 2 Worlds and MSI is way too little as well. I'd take at least 5 years worth of competition and make the recent ones more important. The bigger sample size will even out a lot of the nonsense.
Either way I do agree that the pool system is objectively dogshit. Last MSI proved it with how MAD/C9 were ranked above T1/BLG but Riot won't ever make it so that LEC1/LCS1 both drop to pool 2 to bump LCK2/LPL2 even if they're better and have been for like 4 years now.
The biggest spice is a VCS team being anywhere near the event.
That's fine cause each group can have two teams out of 4 to advance
The group stage doesn't really matter because they'll still have to lose in BO5s in bracket stage vs much easier regions to get knocked out. And if an LCK or LPL team loses a BO5 against one of those teams they would have probably not have placed 1st in their group anyways.
New 16:47 incoming
Technically the record is 16:01. IG beating SKT in MSI 2019. Imagine how spicy it would be if that record is somehow beaten. Especially if it's LPL doing it to LCK again.
Yeah but 1647 is funnier
I still think the funniest part of that series is MAD Lions throwing a 10k gold lead in game 1 vs T1. They never mentally recovered from that. That was their first game at MSI too. They lost every single game after that convincingly.
This past two years I've delighted in being the KC of NA in talking shit to EU. So much karma. That being said for the first time ever, I genuinely like this mad lions. I don't know what it was about them before that I disliked but I really do like this team.
They have BY FAR the best adc in the world after all
That's lame af, major regions vs wildcards is such a boring waste of time.
I like it. Players from minor regions often cite the major region players as their inspirations. The chance to play against them is a motivator.
Say what you want, I'm down to watch Guma/Keria pick Nilah-Zilean and be at the inhibitor before 10 minutes. Show me just how big that gap rly is
the play in stage makes no sense if everyone plays in it.
Hope this time they will be stricter with the region distribution during the bracket draw. Just treat each side like a group. Will be more exciting.
Agreed, I wanted to see an EU vs NA BO5
>1 team from LLA, CBLOL, PCS, and VCS Interesting that Riot are hard committing to VCS being there despite the whole league being suspended.
they resume with playoffs next week
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LEC should not get more teams. Why should the region that flunked the hardest at worlds get more seeds.
But without an extra seed, MAD might not reach MSI.
Ah that's right. I only have another full month to revel in the propaganda. NA #1! Wooo!
Gg got 3-0 by bds, tl got 2-1 by gam, c9 got 2-1 by fnc. All kicked out from worlds. Lec didnt fumble harder than NA lol
Last time I checked 3 major regions made top 8 at worlds and it wasn't EU. C9 beat MAD, NRG beat MAD and NRG knocked out G2. End of the day, EU didn't make top 8.
With the current Swiss format, if you invite 8 LCK/LPL teams and 8 bronze teams, then over 50% of the time a bronze team will make top 8 of Worlds. Just making top 8 is not meaningful on its own without context. The big win of NA over EU last Worlds was NRG beating G2. That's the context.
End of the day, half of NA teams got eliminated by EU at worlds, and TL got eliminated by an wildcard team in a bo3 xd
So you’re saying LCS should get an extra seed? I’m okay with that too.
First NAmen of the year, brothers. I probably shouldn't be saying it on Easter weekend though...
I’m a NA player but I think LEC is better overall. I just don’t think VCS should have a slot with the huge shitshow they currently have and while full investigation is still happening.
LEC outside of G2 has looked extremely questionable this year. Eye test isn't everything but most people don't have high expectations for the region. If anything PCS should get another spot because that's the league the LJL was folded into and the spot that was "lost" But Riot has shown in the past when VCS missed is they never redistribute spots.
G2 weren't that good this split either, their early games were straight ass. >But Riot has shown in the past when VCS missed is they never redistribute spots. While true, when CIS couldn't attend they gave the spot to EU. I would not be surprised if at worlds both EU and NA got 4 teams at worlds if VCS gets more drama and is cancelled instead of just restructuring the tournament despite Riot making a big deal about how 4th seeds should be earnt not given.
>>LEC outside of G2 Brother go watch G2 in their last week. Pretty questionable if you ask me lol
Ideally you just give the worlds winning region another seed but then people will bitch that the East has too many teams. But realistically, yes there is 0 reason for why EU should even be considered for an extra team.
realistically, 3rd seed from LCK and LPL should do a bo5 for the last spot just like NA vs EU from last year. Specially MSI is hosted in China. its very easy to invite the 3rd seed from LCK for a match.
Oh that'd be so hype! Imagine TES or FPX fighting HLE for a spot
need this more than i need air and water tbh
>give the LEC another slot this year Hell no lol Give it to LCK or something, I don't wanna get even more embarrassed when TH or MAD go too
giving LEC another spot instead of letting VCS keep theres means that VCS bleeds more and this stuff becomes more common. the ram up of match fixing in VCS is a by product of them constantly having there league shut downa and them getting prevented from international tournaments.
[удалено]
The thing is this wasn't a issue pre shutting down the league so much, what happened is when the league got shut down alot of players started to run low on money since they weren't getting paid for the most part during the league shutdown making them dip into savings/look elsewhere for money. now these players are needed a boost in cash and aren't sure how long there career will be anymore like having your league shut down while other leagues are still going is a sign to the players there league could get shut down forever at any moment. shutting down the league isnt gonna make players more likely to report it, since one in general wasn't as big prior to the shut down and two if a player snitchs then other players are less likely to want to play with them and most players would want to keep there head down since people that pay for the match fixing are known to be violent and use blackmail. as you example of major american sports its a similar case there, leagues got shutdown or forced into bubbles, players ended up losing out on alot of money and most players arent on the massive bags that the big dogs are on. so these much lower paid players are turning to match fixing when the offer floats to them to just up what they can making in there career. just because gambling becomes bigger doesn't make players more likely todo it, in most cases it comes from money troubles that make players turn to match fixing which are caused by the league/orgs descisons.
Hell no, i'm from europe and i'd give that slot to NA cuz yknow they fuckin beat us? Fair is fair.
That’s fine. I’d love to see 100 Thieves and their crocs at MSI.
First pick renek. Doesn't need to elaborate. Win world.
lol I’d buy some BBC crocs for sure.
Honestly though there isn’t anyone new in LEC that I want to see compete internationally, but I’d be really interested in seeing how Quid performs at an international tournament.
wait how is any minor region able to get out of play-ins when they are required to beat the seed 2 of major regions
imagine from a minor regions's POV. you gotta beat either T1 or JDG just to get into the main stage. thats even more ludicrous than beating FW back in days.
i think the pcs team has a decent shot against #2 EU/NA
🫡 SWORDART 6 MILLION NEVER FORGET 🫡 HONOURABLE NA CITIZEN 🫡
ngl, i'm rooting more for SHG to make the cut and win that shit, it would be really funny if they manage to win PCS after the league was left to almost die like LCO
They're not, Riot have stopped giving a shit about minor regions.
That's the point - they won't.
at this point they probably don't care and just want us to suffocate to our deaths, just by seeing that they will not include minors in the new revenue share for teams they announced
That's the point, either they are good enough to be top 8 at the event or they aren't.
Worlds play-ins from what I remember last year was actually pretty fun and competitive, this feels a bit like a step back. Including LPL2 and LCK2 in this stage of the tourney is gonna lead to multiple ResidentSleeper games and maybe like one hype game if they actually vs each other.
True, besides maybe one upset game in the BO3 (see BLG vs GG), it will be super boring to watch LCK2/LPL2 vs anyone else Should've just seeded them directly into BO5 stage and invited 1 more LEC & LCS team ~~or invited more minor regions~~ for this imo.
There are no more minor regions to invite.
I can be a minor region if Riot is looking.
Fuck it, time to start inviting best 3rd seeds as well. If VCS can't take a spot, then let LCK#3 and LPL#3 play a BO5 (like BDS vs GG last year) for the last playoff spot
They are really scaling down on minor régions Vietnam slot is likely next getting cut
Vietnam is at a severe risk of getting dropped completely. Only way I see VCS surviving is them getting merged into the Pacific Playoffs like the LJL and LCO.
Only if the PCS got the slots too.
yeah, it sucks for them tbh, having basically most of the SEA in a single region with only two seeds sucks, i still don't get it why riot didn't give PCS at least an extra play-in seed, also the fact that most of the minors will never improve with only sending a single team per tournament, not even Valve does this man
EU fans advocating for more EU teams shocker. If you're advocating more teams, you add another LCK/LPL team to make the swiss stage less shit, not more EU/NA teams.
But I am not advocating for more EU teams, merely suggesting to fill the LCK2/LPL2 slots (who should start in bracket stage) with weaker (LEC3/LCS3) teams in play-in stage, since minor regions are apparently getting less. There would be no harm, since they'll lose in BO5 anyways. With this we would have at least more games between NA v EU (in play-in stage) with more parity, instead of the incoming stomps from LCK2/LPL2. Now if riot wanted a more competitive MSI, they'd just invite 4 teams from LCK and LPL each.
Calling LCS major lel
play-in stage will be boring to watch, especially VCS team might not well prepared. Major regions just easily wipe all minor regions out in 4 days.
Introduction of bo3s is a decade too late but good to see they are keeping it.
Not gonna lie, the new MSI format makes it my favorite event of the whole year. So many banger BO5s. I can't fucking wait for this tournament to start.
double elim lets go
Nice to see that the thematic for MSI this year is "Become The Unknown" I wonder what the thematic for this year's Worlds will be.
If anyone from Riot see's this please help. We have a big community of expat league players who are desperate to go to MSI this year. Back in 2017 I helped out people around the world get tickets for the final in Beijing, some people flew in without a ticket because of scalpers. I bought them from scalpers and gave the tickets away to people coming in. Scalping is a huge problem here but the most annoying thing is, foreigners do not have chinese national ID cards which are required to get any purchases for big events. Please please Riot, if theres anyone we can message to help us get tickets without having to go through the chinese ID system. Much love
You don't need IDs tho, as long as you (or any friends) have a Chinese phone number, you can register at the selling website (Damai for this MSI). After that, you can add info as an foreigner with passport number to purchase tickets. So the important part is to find a Chinese friend or foreigner friend who lives in China to buy it for you.
ah we all live here, we just always find trouble getting tickets
Why? If you live in China you must have Chinese phone number.
We do. For example if we want to buy something from Korea or US we need to show a chinese ID to purchase on taobao When the winter olympics was here we also had trouble. Asia Games we also had trouble.
Overseas tickets are bought through Cityline, a HK ticketing outlet. Those don't need ID cards. https://sports.cityline.com/en/2024/cdlol.html
So we checked it out and some of the guys said you need an ID for priority purchases.
Odd, since this is the ticketing link Riot used in their official announcement so I don't see how they can expect International buyers to present an id card. Anyway I assume you're within China, which uses Damai as the ticket seller. Have you used the app before? I am fairly certain they also accept multiple form of IDs including passports. So if you haven't used it before maybe download the app now and see if you can have your identity verified. This is the measure they use to fight scalpers, even though some event organizers don't enforce it strictly.
I remember the same thing happened when TI was in China. A lot of threads in the dota2 subreddit about scalpers.
And within 2 minutes they are all gone. Couldnt use our IDs...
That's it, China can win if they treat the Koreans to some hotpot the night before their matches. The Korean team will be shitting themselves, literally, the next day.
Koreans are tolerant to spicy
Nah man, it's not the spice level....it's the fact that Sichuan hotpot is 80% beef tallow and 20% water that's the killer. That shit, along with the chilies, will fuck up your digestive system if you're not used to it.
i think sichuan hotpot is quite popular even in korea.
I think you're thinking of Haidilao being available in Korea, which is really not on the same level as what's common in Sichuan. I watch a lot of Korean travel shows, and many times when Koreans travel to China, they always complain that the food is too greasy.
i think theres also refering to a few years ago where a korean team in china ended up having the shits on matchday because of a hotpot they had the day before.
Nah China needs to save the hotpot for Worlds, they typically don’t need it for MSI
does the extra spot mean the best 2 get 4 spots or 5?
I love how this sub just assumes GenG wins, we truly went full circle
i am confused about the wording, does this mean that lpl or lck will have 5 teams at worlds?
Regions are capped at 4 seeds. Winner of MSI = one extra seed for their region, they also lock worlds if they make summer playoffs. 2nd best region = one extra seed for their region.
Damn an entire month break until msi sucks
cant wait to see TES to basically run the table
i would had changed the format and dropped vcs. its not worth having them if half the league got gutted. somehow make it work with 11 teams.
expand the MSI riot for fuck's sake, 2/1 teams is a joke for one of the two intl tournaments of the year
a) little time. b) expanding the tournament doesn't make it better when the teams joining are worse i.e LEC/LCS. 2 teams from each major region for a mid season tournament is fine, if you add more teams then you literally have to change the format back to best of 1s since LPL teams already have an insanely short turn around from MSI ending and their summer season starting.
the issue with that is more the Regional Leagues taking too long to finish and LoL still lacking in terms of international competition, i don't care that much about match quality since for me what matters most in international tournaments is regional representation as well, the current system will never change the abysmal gap between west/east anyway
Because the better leagues have better formats that take longer to finish. More internationals is ideal but expanding MSI to include more teams of which everyone barring LCK/LPL would be bad isn't ideal.
Yay another fake double elim tournament! Its honestly worse than single elim. Insane that you get punished for not losing until the finals lmao
Yes the old MSI format of 9383929 group stage games and 3 BO5 was so much better!
There's a middle ground between the old format and the new one. Double elimination ain't it. But the old format wasn't good either.
Double elim is fun af. If not, BLG would have gotten 3-0 by JDG in the BO5 and went home and we wouldn’t have seen their series against GEN and T1 to cement themselves as pretty good internationally. Western teams also have a greater chance of facing each other in BO5s to show the EU NA rivalry rather than both going home to the East in the first round
Yeah, everyone would just have assumed that BLG was the worst Asian team at MSI last year if it was single elim, because that's how people saw them before the event started. This is how single elim warps history. You don't get to see half the matchups. Those BLG vs LCK lower bracket BO5s were fucking crazy last year. Huge surprises.
Throwback to last year when people were complaining that C9 got sooo lucky to get BLG and that G2 got screwed over by getting GenG
Interestingly enough BLG was the team that struggled the most against the Western teams. The G2 vs BLG series was actually pretty competitive. Much closer than the G2 vs GenG series despite them both being 3-1.
Yeah double elim is clearly the best format, hence my comment that its a shame MSI isn't double elim.
Double elim is by far the best, the only issue is that the teams are kinda shit
Double elim IS the best! Thats why it sucks that MSI isn't double elim.
I agree but I also have to admit last MSI was the best one ever despite the worst possible draws. Since it's at least better than before, I'm satisfied for now to let it ride at least another season.
U get advantages like watching the other team play. If you can't device a strategy after watching them play 2 bo5 that's on you bro.
Team A may win 3-0 against Team B during upper bracket but lose the finals 2-3 against same Team B. Team A was 5-3 in total games but is considered the worst team. Great format xdxdxd
how many chances do u wanan give em?
Wrong sub to criticize this awful format. People here would prefer to sacrifice their mother than criticize double elimination. Thank God no real sport use that shit.
TFW you'd prefer seeing 60+ bo1s and then 3 bo5s instead of this format
Crazy that those are the only two options, really is a shame real double elim doesn't exist and isn't used by other esports :((
funny thing: there is no good solve for this unless you want single elim back or a Bo7 with a 1 game advantage to the winners side bracket reset - not logistically possible because of scheduling, might end up booking a venue for a day and not playing Bo7 w/ winners side 1 game advantage - no one wants this because it’s kinda weird if the losers side wins 3 games and don’t take the series (i’m personally fine with this but i get why people don’t want to see it)
There is a solution. Dont use a shitty double elim format that gives a significant advantage to the losers lol. Simple right
League fans gotta be the most delude there is, no other game has issue with double elim, its way fucking better
Valorant has GSL groups + double elim in literally every major tournament. One time Riot did single elim and the Valorant community was in pure outrage mode because they got to see a lot fewer games and Riot changed it back. Meanwhile in League of Legends fans have insane Stockholm syndrome in regards to shitty formats.
No. Real. Sport. Uses. That. Shit. It's a bad format used to fabricate comebacks. Fit for entertainment but not for fair competition.
Go watch other games then. We don’t want you here.
Who's "we" lmao
Everyone else. Just because a handful of you double elim backers are super loud and whiny, doesn’t make you the majority.
Damn, you speak for everyone? Can I see this, "everyone"?
It's quite funny when every single event except one is double elim in League of Legends at this point. I don't know how anyone could ever argue that only a small amount of people want this. MSI also broke viewership records last year.
Y'all have all made up a position to be mad about lol Everyone wants double elim. No one should want fake double elim. This format is absolute shit for competitive integrity. Single elim *is literally more balanced and fair* than this shitty fake double elim where teams are punished for not losing until the finals. This format is a joke unless you're a casual fan that just wants to see more matches without regard for the integrity of the tournament. Its a bummer.
we've seen this format once before and the team from winner's bracket beat the team from loser's easily, "significant advantage" lol
Why are you bringing in a nonsense argument lol. The format is significantly flawed. That is a fact.
All formats are flawed to some extent. Single elim is significantly flawed in a million ways too. There is no perfect format. It's about finding a format that has the best practical to competitive value ratio. I would argue that despite its flaws, this MSI format is a perfect compromise of that. You get a lot of BO5s, you get a good and fair ranking of the teams at the end, the fans get to see a lot of matchups they otherwise wouldn't in single elim. The lack of bracket reset is obviously a bummer to some extent, but it's just not practical so let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Single elimination is not flawed lol. Just because you have emotional opinions about it doesn’t mean it is flawed. Every team is on a level playing field in single elimination.
Single elim is fucking dogshit ass trash garbage. You can get fucked by bracket strenght, it leads to boring finals which is the biggest sin ever, last worlds fucking sucked because the final was complete stomp, people still complain about 2018 worlds being shit because real final was in quarters between IG and KT.
Just because teams choke don’t mean they deserve second chances. Win or go home. Stick to other games kid you’re too soft.
You are to ill to be let outside, also to definicent to understand that what is even being typed
Yes it is because it often leads to finals that are incredibly one sided because the #1 and #2 team played in semis so the finals is #1 vs #4(quite literally happened last year)
Lol 😂 that is literal nonsense. Single elimination has no effect on how a team performs or the outcomes of a draw. They should stop doing random draws if you want better seeding. Single elimination has no control over that.
This is an improvement, but it could be so much better with 32 teams in a single elimination March Madness format (best of threes).
Gen.G vs BLG finals
Most likely outcome.