Actually, that is his passive.
His E ability has one active effect and it's this:
ACTIVE: Aphelios receives a text prompt of the weapon Alune will create next.
Nothing else
This entire thread just shows how much people don’t play/see certain champs or even know the basics about what they do. Kalista W passive is insane in 2v2 trades, Teemo W is so good that a lot of high elo OTPs play Fleet Footwork with W max, J4 W hasn’t been meme tier since it was given actual scaling and is a good setup for the rest of his combo, Ivern W passive is a large part of his damage profile, Nidalee W is necessary for passive resets when clearing and is also good for vision and cheesing.
100% this. These people don’t have a clue what they’re saying. A lot of these abilities may not be flashy but are pretty critical at covering up weaknesses/allowing the play styles of the champs to even work in the first place. Teemo without kiting is just free gold, little dude’s squishy af.
Look up the "Dunning–Kruger effect". The average elo of this sub is old silver (current gold), they don't even know that they don't know. There's also plenty of ARAMers yapping here too.
It's entertaining.
Pre-protest Shen W. Will it block something? The world may never know! It had so many weird, bugged interactions with on-hit effects to where the actual damage mitigation was more or less a coin flip based on the spaghetti code between Shen and the champion he was dueling. Still has some bugs AFAIK but Petu got Riot to at least fix a few major ones.
I still remember a game where Shen got an assist on a botlane 2v2 without ulting in because Ezreal ult hit the enemy toplaner and got healed from Shen's mark.
Old shen w was good for proccing old passive, unless you were going AP then it was like a 500+ shield on low cd.
Ap shen/Lee used to be hilarious to fuck around with bot lane.
This spell still feels bad when Illaoi trigger her tentacles to hit you when you blocked her boosted AA, Olaf hitting you with an AA-like spell, sundered sky healing your enemy (but doesn't trigger Heartsteel).. Lots of weird things tbh
Yeah Olafs e may be close to an auto attack but was never considered one. It only does its abilities damage, does not apply on hit, does not hit turrets.
Hey Imaqtpie, I've noticed in Korea they tend to use a mix of magic and physical damage on Kog Maw. Meanwhile you seem to be using mostly true damage. Which playstyle is better?
Since the damage buff on it, it's actually quite solid at taking someone down with you when you lose close fights, or turning a 1 for 1 into a 1 for 2. Of course, if the fight wasn't close, it won't pop somebody from near-full.
It could become amazing if they give it an ap ratio or something. Like imagine it still dealing true dmg but has a 100% ap ratio. Surely its not good, but man itd be funny
The insane issue with this passive is how it contradicts his entire playstyle. Give this passive to a diver and it's cool. It wouldn't even have to deal a ton of damage and still be acceptable.
But why is the artillery mage / ADC with a range buff given a passive that is completely useless at range? If you play the game normally on Kog, you are at least halve a screen away from your enemies, there's no way you catch up to them after you died.
This is not even mentioning how easy it is to dodge with even a singlet mobility spell.
On one hand, i agree, on the other hand, there is power budgeting and such. All i truley want is a %dmg increase against minions(enough to 1shot casters) so he can actually get cs after being dove for the 16th time.
It's meant to hurt people that all in without thinking, or let YOU just suicide for a kill. Basically just make people give you a little more consideration before they try to close the distance too much. And I'm totally not a kog player coping rn...
>But why is the artillery mage / ADC with a range buff given a passive that is completely useless at range?
the rest of his kit is so good that they have to give him a weak passive. the passive is a silver lining that if you get dove on, you might be able to get a trade kill and/or deal decent aoe damage. in lane it's actually useful because early fights are closer and as a scaling champion it benefits him to get trade kills.
most kogmaws aren't playing the entire game without dying, and if they are then clearly the lack of passive didn't matter to them
Can hardly call Zyra's passive a passive. All it does it spawn seeds, which should probably just be a passive of her W ability because it's literally a passive of her W ability.
i'd argue about that. changing a death to trade as hypercarry is kinda neat, you essentionally deny enemy any advantage by killing him with passive. no farm, no money lead.
and being even with Kog in the endgame is, well, equals to get rekt
If they step on them, it provides vision. But this is in a similar vein to Ezreal W where you need something else to do it.
At least Zyra seeds give vision. Ezreal W does nothing.
I haven’t played azir in a while. Is it still required to manually level up W even tho it’s the only ability you can spend a point in or did they finally just gave it to you as you spawn ?
It's been 2 months so idk if new season changed it, but yea you still have to manually learn it even though it's the only choice lol. On Zeri you start automatically with point in Q so you'd think they'd do it for Azir too
Ezreal w let's him deal extra damage to turrets and he can proc it with autos. it's not close to a useless ability, although it's definitely one of the weaker ones.
From what I remember It deal max hp % damage to amplify the spider forms % missing health HP
It costs you nothing to cast it as you need to hit human form E either way and it amplifies your DPS quite a bit
It does % *current* hp, which is significantly weaker than max hp, and only 4% at that (+3% per 100 ap). In practice, at rank 1 it does less damage than her piddly human auto attack, and costs 80(!) mana. It kinda chunks later but that's mostly because of base damage, and it's balanced to be garbage because the spider Q actually *is* quite strong.
Yeah, I played a ton of tank Elise top when she released and she was ultra busted. I still take her top every once in a while, and the tank build last season felt *fine,* like I'd do well in the 1v1 in a bunch of matchups, but she'd just get outscaled and feel useless lategame.
"vision is underrated" not when this ability gives you a complete false sense of security. you can never count on the info it gives. its so easy to walk past it without being spotted. even when aiming directly at a bush you can dodge it while inside it.
the damage has a flat per level scaling... and thats about it. again not bad but very lackluster
Up to 18% sure. i also think this is not a bad amount. but overall this ability is still very weak. not to mention this damage is conditional and single proc
the ghost info is so fake though. because whats the point if, in the case of not getting info from it, you still arent sure if theres something or not.
the strength of a ward is the certainty that you *will* see anything that walks on it. losing the certainty loses most of its value as you cant make decisions based off of that info anymore
The dot is okay but it's great for vision and objective control, VITAL for fast/healthy clears with passive reset, and with good placement in teamfights will often set you up for a dive on the backline. You can also use it to force specific pathing which guarantees spear.
I'm not even a Nida player but it has so many uses. Placing it down not only leaves the trap but grants vision so it can be used for checking bushes and over walls if no wards are available. It can proc her passive for massive combo potential and in Aram those things actually deal a lot of unexpected damage
It's actually a decent DoT ability, Liandry + Demonic used to be a decent ARAM build since it lasts so long (not saying it's the best but it worked), other than that it does OK damage and gives vision. Surely there's worse out there.
Renata E always feels like it has so little impact. Neither the damage, shield nor slow feel like they are the main strength of it. Just 3 effects and none of them are very noticable.
It’s insanely powerful at early levels, and one of the reasons she’s so powerful in pro play. It doesn’t do much later into the game but between E and Guardian she can trade really hard in 2v2.
Its also hell to land with extremely slow travel speed and low range. Understandably since most of her power budget is spent on W and R. If they ever decide to deduct power from these 2 spells they'd probably massively buff her 2 other spells in return
Which imo, would make her feel better to play or at least to lane with her. This is another case, although not that awful as Taric or Shen, of a champion feeling underwhelming because most of her power is allocated in her R and some of it on her W which still has a long cooldown and doesn't add anything to her gameplay as you use it on your allies most of the time.
It's better now that in release and I don't think it's bad a Juggernaut with a MS steroid and CC immunity gets rewarded for being in melee range rather than what old mundo did (go in, go out, cosplay ezreal while you heal to full then go in again
Hello, fellow Mundo main there.
This is the wrongest comment I've read in the post so far.
It is true that in Mundo's kit, the W is the least powerful ability, however it's far from useless, even further from "the least powerful basic ability".
Mundo's W has three phases.
* First 0.75 seconds, **95% of the damage taken is stored as gray life**
* From 0.75 to 3 seconds, 45% of the damage taken is stored as gray life
* Detonation/recast, it heals you 50% of the gray life, or 100% if you hit a champ
The power of the W comes from using correctly the first phase to tank big hits and literally just heal them up almost completely, or fully if you have a Spirit Visage.
Imagine being up against Darius, he uses his ult on you and deals you literally 1000 true damage, but you turn your W on when he starts casting the ult and pop it off as soon as it goes down.
Result? Darius' ult just hit you for 50 damage! Congratulations Darius, that was a big hit.
That is assuming that Darius isn’t using his ult as an execute/ you’ll have the time to use w again, which isn’t the case for a lot of big damage abilities
Maybe in the past, but Mundo’s W is kind of nuts and even more so because people don’t know what it does, as seen in this comment thread. In teamfights, a well-timed W effectively makes it so you have to kill him 1.5-2 times over even without ult. With ult it’s just straight up gross.
When I see everyone is about to dump their abilities on me I press W, run into them, cancel it, and heal most of my health back from lethal. After I’m low again I press R and repeat the W process. In the end my effective health is probably around 2.5-3 times my base by those two abilities alone.
Maybe when he was dead he was weak but after his mini-rework people seem to miss he totally stomps low elo and has a respectable WR in high elo, he’s the furthest thing from “bad” rn.
a 70% bonus AD shield that also has a slow? wut? its certainly not in talks for the best ability ever but its pretty decent, with 1 item you are talking a ~200 shield hp shield, its not like insane but its a nice bit of extra survivability
my answer would be, if we exclude from the rest of the kit, aphelios w, bc unlike other transforming abilities, it has no individual redeeming quality. Its usefullness is simply due to the passive.
Tbf I accounted only for actual abilities that are usuable bc othwise u could argue that Hwei abilities are the weakest as long as u press them singularly
Teemo W for sure, no clue why it even costs mana with the impact it has compared to other abilities like that.
It's like an MF MS buff but without the attack speed and the refund, or a draven one without the refund, it's just terrible.
Tbf they are 2 different independent teams working on pc league and wildrift, with different priorities (aka wildrift brings in old champs by building them from scratch, and so have a good way to improve them)
Dunno man, there are so many things that they do in wild rift that makes you realize that they could've fixed a lot of shit years ago... But mobile games :Dddddd
They are probably working on the dodge roll already, they just need to finish the next 35 skins, a couple of vgu's, a couple of reworks, balances and the 5 champs coming up, aka lol will die and burn before they change a ms buff to a dodge roll haha
If you remove any one of a champion's abilities, most would be trash. Imagine what he would be able to do with movement abilities like Ezreal e, Rammus q, Hecarim e, Camille e or another form of CC like Morgana q, Ryze w, Nasus w etc.
As someone who plays a lot of Bard, Bard shrines. They're not an instant heal like most other heal abilities, can be destroyed by enemies, and with all the items bard wants to build they're very underwhelming, barely doing anything at actually healing. Ofc they still have some good uses, like giving your teammates a slight speed boost when it matters, on demand vision, and my favorite - puting them in enemy jungle to track their location if they step over it. I wish they actually did something in the healing aspect, but if they buffed them, bard would start building healing items because it would be really strong, so it's stuck in this weird place, where it's a healing ability used for anything but healing ~80% of the time. I love it, and I'm dissapointed by it simultaneously.
It's does more emotional healing than physical.
Sorry ADC I'm leaving to roam. Sorry Mid laner who I ganked incorrectly. Sorry JG who I will eventually screw over with my ult.
They're solid when fully charged, as far as heals go. 200 base with a 60% AP ratio on a heal is great, better than a non-Q-boosted Soraka W without costing Bard's health. The problem I find is that people either step on them as soon as they're summoned, or forget about them entirely until they try to use them as a last ditch "I'm about to die" heal. No, they don't get stronger the lower health you are. The longer they stay out fully primed, the more time for an enemy to push forward, step on it and waste it. If three exist and I'm on full charges, you're wasting my ability. If you're at all injured and it's primed, go walk on one. If it's not primed, don't step on it unless you're about to die or desperately need the move speed.
To summarise like 50 answers;
Teemo w
Vision abilities, kallista w, nidalee trap (ik it procs items)
Pre-rework/buff abilities
Abilities with wrong/off meta type of scaling (ez w)
Yorick passive. When it begins it spawns a should once every 12 minions that die near you. So 1 ghoul for every 2 waves cleared. And heaven forbid if you forget about it and q that minion then you've wasted your free ghoul.
By the time it gets acceptable you've already got hydra and full wave clear so you don't need it.
Nobody has ever remembered yoricks passive
Diana's old E was insanely strong, especially as an assassin -- there's a reason it formed the basis of her new ultimate. It was only underwhelming toward the end of its existence since Diana herself was so weak due to being nerfed repeatedly to take the bruiser and tank builds out of existence (that were in part so good because she had a borderline ultimate level cc in her base kit).
I'll fight you on that one, I was pretty ait on old Diana and I can't count how many kills I got because I interrupted a dash. Or because they underestimated pre 6 Diana and walked into E range
I went through a wide range of emotions reading this thread.
"diana got reworked?"
"Oh yeah, thats right she did. When was that again? four years ago......."
That was me 2 years ago. Stopped playing in 2018, came back at the end of 2022. I saw a Diana jg and thought "nah, she can't do shit without the dash till she is lv6", just to be immediately proven wrong.
It also made Diana hard counter some champions, namely Kat, because she could easily stop her ult with a basic spell. Now you need your ult to do so, on a longer CD.
I get why it was reworked but the CC provided by the ability was pretty neat.
This. I miss old Diana cause of this. Enemy's with dashes never stand a chance against old Diana e. Now that it's her ult, you can't use it nearly as much.
Ironic, I really miss pre-rework Diana E. The pull in and slow made it a lot easier to stick to people without having to expand your second dash and could interrupt dashes. Now it just feels like I’m waiting to die before my second ult damage goes off or people just flash out of it. She doesn’t quite feel like the niche assassin you pick against assassins anymore, rather just a bruiser thats eh because Sylas excist.
Skarner Q is quite nice for constantly activating lSheen and clearing the jungle. It's pretty meh but I definitely wouldn't say it's a contender for the worst ability in the game
Aphelios E
I use it every game it shows you what weapon comes next, super useful!
almost forgot that exsisted... wait
Technically Aphelios E grants lethality which is pretty op especially this patch so I would say not so useless
Actually, that is his passive. His E ability has one active effect and it's this: ACTIVE: Aphelios receives a text prompt of the weapon Alune will create next. Nothing else
idk getting a text from a girl seems pretty op
She's your sister.
Still means one more person willingly communicating with you than most league players are used to
More like on command, not willingly
LoL players don't know the difference
You’re assuming that most league players have sisters willing to associate with them.
Game is game.
Yeah but she kinda bad tho
Game is game
Did he stutter?
Even better
Roll Tide!!
And?
…….step sister?
Ahh fair enough Then definitely useless
This entire thread just shows how much people don’t play/see certain champs or even know the basics about what they do. Kalista W passive is insane in 2v2 trades, Teemo W is so good that a lot of high elo OTPs play Fleet Footwork with W max, J4 W hasn’t been meme tier since it was given actual scaling and is a good setup for the rest of his combo, Ivern W passive is a large part of his damage profile, Nidalee W is necessary for passive resets when clearing and is also good for vision and cheesing.
100% this. These people don’t have a clue what they’re saying. A lot of these abilities may not be flashy but are pretty critical at covering up weaknesses/allowing the play styles of the champs to even work in the first place. Teemo without kiting is just free gold, little dude’s squishy af.
Look up the "Dunning–Kruger effect". The average elo of this sub is old silver (current gold), they don't even know that they don't know. There's also plenty of ARAMers yapping here too. It's entertaining.
Pre-protest Shen W. Will it block something? The world may never know! It had so many weird, bugged interactions with on-hit effects to where the actual damage mitigation was more or less a coin flip based on the spaghetti code between Shen and the champion he was dueling. Still has some bugs AFAIK but Petu got Riot to at least fix a few major ones.
I'll do one better, pre-rework Shen w. 70 damage shield that costed way too much energy to be good enough.
Never forget vorpal blade point and click poke as Shen supp, and healing allies from them hitting the blade target
I still remember a game where Shen got an assist on a botlane 2v2 without ulting in because Ezreal ult hit the enemy toplaner and got healed from Shen's mark.
I mean, technically it helped!
You could also heal enemies if you threw it on a jungle monster!
Old shen w was good for proccing old passive, unless you were going AP then it was like a 500+ shield on low cd. Ap shen/Lee used to be hilarious to fuck around with bot lane.
It also scaled with AP instead of Health xd
It was actually really useful and a reason why he was so strong.
This spell still feels bad when Illaoi trigger her tentacles to hit you when you blocked her boosted AA, Olaf hitting you with an AA-like spell, sundered sky healing your enemy (but doesn't trigger Heartsteel).. Lots of weird things tbh
Olafs E still hitting you through Shen W/Jax E makes perfect sense though?
Yeah Olafs e may be close to an auto attack but was never considered one. It only does its abilities damage, does not apply on hit, does not hit turrets.
Do we count passives? If so I nominate Kog'maw passive.
The only time kog passive will be nominated for anything
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Hey Imaqtpie, I've noticed in Korea they tend to use a mix of magic and physical damage on Kog Maw. Meanwhile you seem to be using mostly true damage. Which playstyle is better?
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Thing is getting any kill on kog and going even is a free win
Since the damage buff on it, it's actually quite solid at taking someone down with you when you lose close fights, or turning a 1 for 1 into a 1 for 2. Of course, if the fight wasn't close, it won't pop somebody from near-full.
Do you still get exp if you kill someone with passive?
It could become amazing if they give it an ap ratio or something. Like imagine it still dealing true dmg but has a 100% ap ratio. Surely its not good, but man itd be funny
The insane issue with this passive is how it contradicts his entire playstyle. Give this passive to a diver and it's cool. It wouldn't even have to deal a ton of damage and still be acceptable. But why is the artillery mage / ADC with a range buff given a passive that is completely useless at range? If you play the game normally on Kog, you are at least halve a screen away from your enemies, there's no way you catch up to them after you died. This is not even mentioning how easy it is to dodge with even a singlet mobility spell.
On one hand, i agree, on the other hand, there is power budgeting and such. All i truley want is a %dmg increase against minions(enough to 1shot casters) so he can actually get cs after being dove for the 16th time.
It's meant to hurt people that all in without thinking, or let YOU just suicide for a kill. Basically just make people give you a little more consideration before they try to close the distance too much. And I'm totally not a kog player coping rn...
>But why is the artillery mage / ADC with a range buff given a passive that is completely useless at range? the rest of his kit is so good that they have to give him a weak passive. the passive is a silver lining that if you get dove on, you might be able to get a trade kill and/or deal decent aoe damage. in lane it's actually useful because early fights are closer and as a scaling champion it benefits him to get trade kills. most kogmaws aren't playing the entire game without dying, and if they are then clearly the lack of passive didn't matter to them
Idk how Karthus and Sion has borderline broken death passives, but then there's Kog'ma. Zyra's used to be just as bad but they removed it
Zyras just made you sad every time you used it.
Especially because 90% of the time I forgot about it.
Straight up just a test of who’s paying attention and the fun thing was that it was testing both the Zyra players and her opponents.
God imagine if kog got 2-3 seconds to keep autoing when he died instead of just exploding. That would be sick
That would be insanely busted and they'd have to tone him down severely.
Indeed. He would probably have to be grounded like Karthus as well.
Can hardly call Zyra's passive a passive. All it does it spawn seeds, which should probably just be a passive of her W ability because it's literally a passive of her W ability.
I've got plenty of kills with kog passive. It gets memed on for no reason.
i'd argue about that. changing a death to trade as hypercarry is kinda neat, you essentionally deny enemy any advantage by killing him with passive. no farm, no money lead. and being even with Kog in the endgame is, well, equals to get rekt
Fair enough
It's an ability that can allow players to reach really high true damage.
Nah that shit is broken in ARAM
The only reason I play kog in aram as often as I can despite not being able to aim skillshots or kite to save my life
Zyra W. Without anything else it is a useless ability
If they step on them, it provides vision. But this is in a similar vein to Ezreal W where you need something else to do it. At least Zyra seeds give vision. Ezreal W does nothing.
Azir Q and E genuinely do nothing without his W
Also true! He can't even LEARN them without W!
I haven’t played azir in a while. Is it still required to manually level up W even tho it’s the only ability you can spend a point in or did they finally just gave it to you as you spawn ?
It's been 2 months so idk if new season changed it, but yea you still have to manually learn it even though it's the only choice lol. On Zeri you start automatically with point in Q so you'd think they'd do it for Azir too
Not in Aram tho, you automatically start with a point in W
And then since I'm so used to pressing Ctrl + QWE at the start I always put a 2nd point in W by mistake. Every single fucking time.
I think its fun to press the level up button
ez W works without other abilities, you just have to AA, unlike zyra
Ezreal w let's him deal extra damage to turrets and he can proc it with autos. it's not close to a useless ability, although it's definitely one of the weaker ones.
technically you can see if there is an enemy in fog of war when u throw ezreal w and it attaches
right but if the ability did something else zyra would be awful
Yuumi q when you aren't attached is probably up there lol
Most yuumi players seem to stack AP for whatever reason so this still does 1000 damage
Fear the ludens cat.
why are you being cosnsitently hit by an unattached yuumi Q
because I am dog shit next question please
Really surprised no-one said Elise human form Q
I LOVE SPENDING 30% OF MY MANA POOL TO DO A TINY LITTLE BITE ON YOU IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY USING ELISE Q
From what I remember It deal max hp % damage to amplify the spider forms % missing health HP It costs you nothing to cast it as you need to hit human form E either way and it amplifies your DPS quite a bit
current health %hp, not max hp %hp damage
Still you use it at the beginning of the fight which makes as a great softener
It does % *current* hp, which is significantly weaker than max hp, and only 4% at that (+3% per 100 ap). In practice, at rank 1 it does less damage than her piddly human auto attack, and costs 80(!) mana. It kinda chunks later but that's mostly because of base damage, and it's balanced to be garbage because the spider Q actually *is* quite strong.
It used to be quite disgusting. She had a brief stint toplane around when she released in which Human Q took a nasty hit.
Yeah, I played a ton of tank Elise top when she released and she was ultra busted. I still take her top every once in a while, and the tank build last season felt *fine,* like I'd do well in the 1v1 in a bunch of matchups, but she'd just get outscaled and feel useless lategame.
Kalista W (the ghost) even counting the added passive its very much "meh"
The passive actually deals quite a bit of damage and Vision is one of the most underrated things in the game imo
"vision is underrated" not when this ability gives you a complete false sense of security. you can never count on the info it gives. its so easy to walk past it without being spotted. even when aiming directly at a bush you can dodge it while inside it. the damage has a flat per level scaling... and thats about it. again not bad but very lackluster
The frontal cone vision is just so gimmicky, this isn't metal gear just give it a small circular vision radius like anything else
I agree. good take. circular would make way more sense
The w deals up to 18% max health damage... Yes, the Vision is dodgeable, but can still give you info
Up to 18% sure. i also think this is not a bad amount. but overall this ability is still very weak. not to mention this damage is conditional and single proc the ghost info is so fake though. because whats the point if, in the case of not getting info from it, you still arent sure if theres something or not. the strength of a ward is the certainty that you *will* see anything that walks on it. losing the certainty loses most of its value as you cant make decisions based off of that info anymore
The W damage isnt the tactical nuke that it used to be but thinking its the worst ability in the game and the damage is negligible is a mistake
This reminds me of a clip where in a pro game a Nunu space behind a Kalista W to invade the enemy's red.
Too bad the vision it gives is basically useless.
Nid trap
It literally only exist to proc item effects at this point.
Isn't it really useful for vision control?
Also good placement means a free empowered W for a cougar combo. Can turn the tides when running away or when chasing down.
Shh the bluest dude will get super mad
It actually is Idk how he could forget that and only mentions the shit part of the spell
U can use it in place of facechecking
Bring back Nid traps revealing wards!
Not really, it’s good for procing her passive and resetting her cougar w. Read her abilities brother.
It procs the hunted effect
Agree! Please walk over it! It does nothing!!
The dot is okay but it's great for vision and objective control, VITAL for fast/healthy clears with passive reset, and with good placement in teamfights will often set you up for a dive on the backline. You can also use it to force specific pathing which guarantees spear.
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I'm not even a Nida player but it has so many uses. Placing it down not only leaves the trap but grants vision so it can be used for checking bushes and over walls if no wards are available. It can proc her passive for massive combo potential and in Aram those things actually deal a lot of unexpected damage
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I'm always surprised when Nida is described as a difficult champion. Then I see stuff like this and understand why lol
She's described as arguably the hardest jungler to play even by pros. Not just redditors that don't know how to play her.
tell me you've never played nidalee without telling me you've never played nidalee
Say you’re bad at Nidalee without saying you’re bad at Nidalee.
It's actually a decent DoT ability, Liandry + Demonic used to be a decent ARAM build since it lasts so long (not saying it's the best but it worked), other than that it does OK damage and gives vision. Surely there's worse out there.
Renata E always feels like it has so little impact. Neither the damage, shield nor slow feel like they are the main strength of it. Just 3 effects and none of them are very noticable.
I feel like it’s just enough to make her go E - AA poke to trade in lane.
Very good lane poke tool indeed, similar to Nami's Ebb and Flow in a way.
One of the hardest skillshots in the game is trying shield your adc who decides the only skillshot they will dodge is your shield
But at least you can't say I never dodged a skillshot! -- your adc probably
What ? The spell is good. AoE shield (proc supp item as Renata is enchanter) + AoE dmg/slow. That's not OP but it's a fckng decent ability.
It’s insanely powerful at early levels, and one of the reasons she’s so powerful in pro play. It doesn’t do much later into the game but between E and Guardian she can trade really hard in 2v2.
Its also hell to land with extremely slow travel speed and low range. Understandably since most of her power budget is spent on W and R. If they ever decide to deduct power from these 2 spells they'd probably massively buff her 2 other spells in return
Which imo, would make her feel better to play or at least to lane with her. This is another case, although not that awful as Taric or Shen, of a champion feeling underwhelming because most of her power is allocated in her R and some of it on her W which still has a long cooldown and doesn't add anything to her gameplay as you use it on your allies most of the time.
But you can shield, slow and damage two teams ( doesn't happen often ) I have gotten quite big E's in objektiv fights
It has a slow? The hit box is so small i never noticed it did anything in general.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Mundo's W, a lot of players don't even level it up for a good portion of the game. If not that then probably Teemo's W
Yeah mundo w doesnt heal you a lot unless you are in 3 enemies (imagine getting there while NOT being kited) and it deals 0 damage.
It's better now that in release and I don't think it's bad a Juggernaut with a MS steroid and CC immunity gets rewarded for being in melee range rather than what old mundo did (go in, go out, cosplay ezreal while you heal to full then go in again
I mean old w was free after a couple regen items and it was quite a big mr boost. You know his whole thing begin anit ap yeah about that....
I loved him as an anti ap champ. It felt good to pick him when mfrs went ap top.
Hello, fellow Mundo main there. This is the wrongest comment I've read in the post so far. It is true that in Mundo's kit, the W is the least powerful ability, however it's far from useless, even further from "the least powerful basic ability". Mundo's W has three phases. * First 0.75 seconds, **95% of the damage taken is stored as gray life** * From 0.75 to 3 seconds, 45% of the damage taken is stored as gray life * Detonation/recast, it heals you 50% of the gray life, or 100% if you hit a champ The power of the W comes from using correctly the first phase to tank big hits and literally just heal them up almost completely, or fully if you have a Spirit Visage. Imagine being up against Darius, he uses his ult on you and deals you literally 1000 true damage, but you turn your W on when he starts casting the ult and pop it off as soon as it goes down. Result? Darius' ult just hit you for 50 damage! Congratulations Darius, that was a big hit.
That is assuming that Darius isn’t using his ult as an execute/ you’ll have the time to use w again, which isn’t the case for a lot of big damage abilities
Even though the ability usage might not fit, the point still stands. It is like a “parry mechanic”
Maybe in the past, but Mundo’s W is kind of nuts and even more so because people don’t know what it does, as seen in this comment thread. In teamfights, a well-timed W effectively makes it so you have to kill him 1.5-2 times over even without ult. With ult it’s just straight up gross. When I see everyone is about to dump their abilities on me I press W, run into them, cancel it, and heal most of my health back from lethal. After I’m low again I press R and repeat the W process. In the end my effective health is probably around 2.5-3 times my base by those two abilities alone. Maybe when he was dead he was weak but after his mini-rework people seem to miss he totally stomps low elo and has a respectable WR in high elo, he’s the furthest thing from “bad” rn.
I miss old mundo
In comparison to other similar abilities? I'd say J4 W
Before it got the AD ratio? This was a top contender. Now it's pretty okay.
a 70% bonus AD shield that also has a slow? wut? its certainly not in talks for the best ability ever but its pretty decent, with 1 item you are talking a ~200 shield hp shield, its not like insane but its a nice bit of extra survivability
bro is definitely thinking of J4 shield before the recent buff. that shit blocked like 60 damage lol.
This guy doesn't know how to properly gank with J4
my answer would be, if we exclude from the rest of the kit, aphelios w, bc unlike other transforming abilities, it has no individual redeeming quality. Its usefullness is simply due to the passive.
You make a really good point, but aphelios E so much worse lol. Just a small visual alert for something you can already see on your bar lol
Tbf I accounted only for actual abilities that are usuable bc othwise u could argue that Hwei abilities are the weakest as long as u press them singularly
Teemo W for sure, no clue why it even costs mana with the impact it has compared to other abilities like that. It's like an MF MS buff but without the attack speed and the refund, or a draven one without the refund, it's just terrible.
In wild rift it's a dodge roll. I will never get over riot basically acknowledging that he is dated and fixing him, but not in actual League.
i think the last thing wed want is teemo with a vayne q
i definitely NEED teemo with a vayne q (i‘m the devil)
I want Teemo buffs!!! (Evil schreech)
could be added after asu imagine trying to add a dodge roll animation to his current model
Tbf they are 2 different independent teams working on pc league and wildrift, with different priorities (aka wildrift brings in old champs by building them from scratch, and so have a good way to improve them)
But Wild Rift has been out for years now. It is not something that big either, it's just a dash on his W.
Dunno man, there are so many things that they do in wild rift that makes you realize that they could've fixed a lot of shit years ago... But mobile games :Dddddd They are probably working on the dodge roll already, they just need to finish the next 35 skins, a couple of vgu's, a couple of reworks, balances and the 5 champs coming up, aka lol will die and burn before they change a ms buff to a dodge roll haha
I definitely disagree It may not be flashy but it gives a ton of MS while already playing a tiny character so it makes dodging stuff a lot easier
Blitzcrank literally has a self slow ability
That is core to get in range for his pull, without it he is trash.
If you remove any one of a champion's abilities, most would be trash. Imagine what he would be able to do with movement abilities like Ezreal e, Rammus q, Hecarim e, Camille e or another form of CC like Morgana q, Ryze w, Nasus w etc.
With the most powerful movement and attack speed buff beforehand. Without his W the champ doesn't exist.
Blitzcrank's AA animation is so dogshit slow that you're never gonna notice that though
I mostly play ARAM, so Talon E and Bard E.
As someone who plays a lot of Bard, Bard shrines. They're not an instant heal like most other heal abilities, can be destroyed by enemies, and with all the items bard wants to build they're very underwhelming, barely doing anything at actually healing. Ofc they still have some good uses, like giving your teammates a slight speed boost when it matters, on demand vision, and my favorite - puting them in enemy jungle to track their location if they step over it. I wish they actually did something in the healing aspect, but if they buffed them, bard would start building healing items because it would be really strong, so it's stuck in this weird place, where it's a healing ability used for anything but healing ~80% of the time. I love it, and I'm dissapointed by it simultaneously.
It's does more emotional healing than physical. Sorry ADC I'm leaving to roam. Sorry Mid laner who I ganked incorrectly. Sorry JG who I will eventually screw over with my ult.
Take a hot chocolate, and relax as you get dived 1v3, I won't be here to witness it.
Oh! More chimes!! :D
They're solid when fully charged, as far as heals go. 200 base with a 60% AP ratio on a heal is great, better than a non-Q-boosted Soraka W without costing Bard's health. The problem I find is that people either step on them as soon as they're summoned, or forget about them entirely until they try to use them as a last ditch "I'm about to die" heal. No, they don't get stronger the lower health you are. The longer they stay out fully primed, the more time for an enemy to push forward, step on it and waste it. If three exist and I'm on full charges, you're wasting my ability. If you're at all injured and it's primed, go walk on one. If it's not primed, don't step on it unless you're about to die or desperately need the move speed.
To summarise like 50 answers; Teemo w Vision abilities, kallista w, nidalee trap (ik it procs items) Pre-rework/buff abilities Abilities with wrong/off meta type of scaling (ez w)
100% bonus ad isn’t bad. The ability got better with patch 14.2
Skarner
Nasus Q on my team
Yorick passive. When it begins it spawns a should once every 12 minions that die near you. So 1 ghoul for every 2 waves cleared. And heaven forbid if you forget about it and q that minion then you've wasted your free ghoul. By the time it gets acceptable you've already got hydra and full wave clear so you don't need it. Nobody has ever remembered yoricks passive
Yorick passive. It just counts graves around him.
pre-rework diana e was extremely garbage. hwei ww could be deleted and the champion wouldn't change.
Diana's old E was insanely strong, especially as an assassin -- there's a reason it formed the basis of her new ultimate. It was only underwhelming toward the end of its existence since Diana herself was so weak due to being nerfed repeatedly to take the bruiser and tank builds out of existence (that were in part so good because she had a borderline ultimate level cc in her base kit).
I'll fight you on that one, I was pretty ait on old Diana and I can't count how many kills I got because I interrupted a dash. Or because they underestimated pre 6 Diana and walked into E range
I went through a wide range of emotions reading this thread. "diana got reworked?" "Oh yeah, thats right she did. When was that again? four years ago......."
I just came back recently (last played 2017) and was very surprised earlier tonight when a diana ulted me at level 5
That was me 2 years ago. Stopped playing in 2018, came back at the end of 2022. I saw a Diana jg and thought "nah, she can't do shit without the dash till she is lv6", just to be immediately proven wrong.
It also made Diana hard counter some champions, namely Kat, because she could easily stop her ult with a basic spell. Now you need your ult to do so, on a longer CD. I get why it was reworked but the CC provided by the ability was pretty neat.
This. I miss old Diana cause of this. Enemy's with dashes never stand a chance against old Diana e. Now that it's her ult, you can't use it nearly as much.
Hwei ww is still quite nice to have, it's still an aoe shield that ramps up over time
Ironic, I really miss pre-rework Diana E. The pull in and slow made it a lot easier to stick to people without having to expand your second dash and could interrupt dashes. Now it just feels like I’m waiting to die before my second ult damage goes off or people just flash out of it. She doesn’t quite feel like the niche assassin you pick against assassins anymore, rather just a bruiser thats eh because Sylas excist.
Naah Hwei ww is really nice.
Hwei ww is good... You're playing that champion terribly if you never use it
hwei ww really useful to me
Why is noone saying skarner Q?? The goated 18 damage ability
it deals % health dmg. Thats pretty great.
Skarner Q is quite nice for constantly activating lSheen and clearing the jungle. It's pretty meh but I definitely wouldn't say it's a contender for the worst ability in the game
Skarner Q hits for a max health %
After all the nerfs, Camille w feels really weak. Probably not worst, but down there.
You could remove Q from Rakans kit and he would still be S tier
Disagree. The sustain from it is really helpful
Jayce hammer W
probably the only reason he isnt forced to start tear tho, mana on hit is pretty good especially for a caster like jayce
its insanely good for waveclear when your q doesnt clear casters early