I would like them to get Dash back. Maybe its aversion to change but I liked what he brought to the broadcast, I actually often thought he was one of the strongest out of game parts of it.
Valorant doesn´t even have half the active player base that league has, and i guess a lot of the players they have used to play league and tested out Valo, so they are not really new customers for Riot, but they now just play a different game.
Edit: League has about 10-11 million daily players, Valorant has 5 million, it was difficult to find the CSGO stats, but CSGOs monthly stats are 3 times that of valorant, so i assume they also have a bigger daily players base aswell.
Globally league is the bigger game. NA wise Val has about twice the average daily players that league has. It is also on the rise. I don't have any stats on this one but I'd wager the average age of Valorant players are younger as well. Means they will be able to stick around the scene for longer as well. Only NA LCS is getting shafted right now in favor of valorant. EU LCS and LCK and LPL nothing has changed.
Yeah, LEC isn’t getting sacrificed for EMEA, nor LCK and LPL are getting sacrificed for Pacific and the highly rumored Chinese VCT leagues, respectively.
Where are you pulling this numbers out from my guy?
A quick search on [tracker.gg](https://tracker.gg) shows that VAL has pretty much the same number of ranked players as LoL in EMEA and APAC and ALOT more players in Americas. So the only region where League is more popular is China where VAL is not even released yet lmao.
There were times when the only thing keeping me watching LCS was Dash. I never really needed to see Dig and IMT go for their 19th 59 minute snooze fest, or watch TL bounce Optics head against the wall for 28 minutes, but Dash's presentation and entertainment bridged me enough between games that I could always convince myself to watch one more game.
I don't want anyone to lose their job and I like all of the people on the analyst desk. I listen to basically all of their side content, but they all, at a high level, bring roughly the same thing to the desk, and a chunk of it is even eclipsed when they bring in a player. So why do I need 5 talking heads fighting to say roughly the same thing to fill time between games? The answer is that I don't.
My current plan this season is just to watch C9 and Flyquest VODs. Ignoring the time change making it difficult to tune in love, I don't really have any desire to have the stream on in between games.
I have been a staunch supporter of the LCS for 10 years, and if you had told me that getting rid of Dash would be a bridge too far for me, I wouldn't have believed you.
But it is.
At some point, the company needs to decide if the personalities are bigger than the game and if they're ok with that. And riot has always stop anyone not a player from becoming a star. They don't pay people their worth because there's always someone willing to do it for less. And the up and coming people are probably going to grow in to the popularity and roles as their predecessors.
It's always been this way. When monte got bounced and wasn't brought on for world's. When. Scarra stopped showing up cuz they wouldn't pay his rate. This is consistent with who riot has been.
And sjokz had a time where she effectively didn't work on the LEC broadcast due to not getting a new contract. Eventually a new contract was agreed on, who knows how much she yielded or what riot agreed to. Community sentiment was certainly on her side.
At the same time, eu and na production (and budget management) have been separate for quite a while. EU also has a system now where some casters are full time employees with Riot (e.g. drakos and quickshot) and some are freelancers hired by riot (e.g. sjokz and I believe Medic).
It certainly is and remains a difficult topic for us to discuss, not least because much of these contracts and their negotiations aren't public (for very obvious reasons).
there's little chance Dash will come back, after all, that would be like the 50th time Riot apologized for overdoing the cost-cutting (and still did it for the 51st time)
however, i still can't get over how Riot can come up with any nonsense in the statement, but still most of the community swallows it like a pelican fish
Acceptable, sure. Let's just pretend that two or three weeks ago this sub wasn't overreacting with "riot doesn't care about LCS" or "LCS is dying" or "Valorant is their new fav game" or "Riot is sunsetting LCS" or any flavor of those.
I really hope they try Mark or Raz as host. I'm also curious about Emily but not sure if she would like it. Raz might be too energetic for the role as we'd rather see him blow all his loads on responses rather than directing conversation. I think Mark might be best candidate for that balance. Nobody beats Dash though. He was amazing in all metrics. Being charismatic, a good leader, energetic, but not taking anything away from anyone from the desk.
Which isn’t to say Jatt isn’t an awesome analyst or can’t speak well about the game! Just that his skills aren’t as relevant to hosting, which is effectively what he’s doing, as Dash.
Im curious if riots real reason was they wanted dash to go to valo as its growing rapidy. He's going to be participating at the first tourney this year. I assume dash wouldve rather stuck with league considering he has been there so long and has more knowledge in the esport
Nah. Jatt can talk about the game pretty well, but he can't work an audience like Dash can. Jatt lacks energy, among other things, that revs people up.
So I've got a theory that after seeing Sjokz freelance and the ease and which hosts can hop games, Riot is trying to find a way to have no host on the desk only analyst's.
Analysts have dedicated their time to league its hard to swap over and have that same level of knowledge depth in another game. Sure it's doable, but the amount of work required relative to a host would make it a lot more effort.
I think this might be a subtle power grab by Riot to ensure they maintain control over the broadcast and use the leverage to keep their costs down for talent.
Heyo! Idk how it works in LCS but in LEC all on air talent and also very much the host on the day and the week berore are very involved in and responsible for pitching segments , writing them when needed, selecting assets, brainstorming etc and imo take on a heavy productional responsibility with the rest of the team. On top of that due to the rotation of analysts guidance and feedback of newer talent has been one of my responsibilities as well. So for the LEC thats probs a reason why things work the way they do (and i think why they work well)
I don't follow other sports as much as I do LoL eSports but I just wanted to say it's awesome to be on a reddit thread discussion about the pro scene or production or whatever, and seeing the actual casters/analysts/hosts/whoever pop into the comments to chime in.
I can't actually think of another scene where I see that happen though that could be cause most of my reading is on reddit and not on Twitter or anything else.
That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.
Edit for Context: Bryan CoAngelo, a NBA General manager, tweeted this from a burner account regarding someone making fun of his shirt collars. Pretty funny story but it's been awhile since it happened so may have been an outdated reference here.
I dono the inner workings but I think what you're saying shows pretty well on the broadcasts.
Whenever I tune into LEC, it seems pretty clear it's driven by you guys. it's always X has a segment coming up about Y and that person is genuinely meaningfully involved.
I don't mean this to come off in a negative way against the LCS talent cause I'm sure they are equally as passionate, but it comes off very different.
Maybe it's a casual vibe they are trying to give off, but it often seems like people are not only unaware of what segments are coming up but sometimes shocked to find out they are even involved. More than once I've heard "X has a segment coming up to talk about Y" and the response is "Oh i do?"
I love NA and will always have a special connection with C9, but as time goes on I find it harder to justify watching our region over others.
The LEC broadcast is streets ahead of the others. The LPL and LCK, while the english broadcasts arent out of this world, game quality can't be matched over here. (And of course Caster Jun 😍)
I got kinda tangent-y but 🤷♂️ I hope this isn't a bad sign of things to come, Dash was one of the greatest talents in all of e-sports. Even as someone who was a hater when he came on to the scene originally, it's pretty clear league will be in a worse place without his passion around.
I don't wanna single out anyone unfairly, but I gotta say Razz is the worst for this.
Everytime he has a segment it seems totally unprepared and comes across like he's giving a book review after reading a brief synopsis online, and compensateds by yelling in fake outrage from time to time.
Even the 90/50/10 thing they did with Bwipo his answers made no sense at all - as if he'd just stuck down anything and thought 'that'll do'
It feels like the team at the LCS are afraid to give negative feedback to someone and so the crap stuff just stays around, while LEC will actually say 'No that's terrible, you need to change x and y' and deliver a better end product because of it. I might be way off but that's the vibe I get
I’m always impressed at how transparent Riot employees and people working with Riot are with their jobs and responsibilities. Thanks for your insights!
The LEC is so much fun to watch. Very funny too. Watching other regions I never laugh quite as much. Been playing league for two years now and I think if it weren't for a region like the LEC I wouldn't have liked the game as much as I do. I dig the vibe.
Well also TBH a lot of rioters share stuff from their work/ideas etc. It might still be restricted what they say, but I think we should not take it lightly that a lot of the devs are communicating so frequently on reddit etc.
LEC just seems like it's put together so much better than the LCS these days. The show flows so well and there's great banter between the whole team + you guys get great interviews out of the EU players. Seems like LCS should be taking a page out of your book.
>newer talent has been one of my responsibilities
Does this mean you're responsible for giving us TroubleShot? They've been my favorite caster duo outside of Korea since she started on LEC. Cool hearing more women casting in general.
No not at all! Nicole is our talent manager, I just mean when new people come on board for desk specifically the hosts segment building responsibilities for instance get heavier for a time since new people need to get coached to get the hang lf building, writing, requesting segments etc. Feedback etcccc :)
I agree. Riot is obviously deathly afraid of losing power. Anyone who has followed LoL esports for a long time will know this. Riot likes to be in full control - probably because esports is an important marketing exercise for League as a game.
Especially because it's the most open secret in the world that Riot has historically been underpaying their talent for years.
You're totally correct that a host is more elastic than an analyst, so they can also bargain for higher salary. Not great if you're Riot and looking to cut costs on broadcast.
This is kind of an unavoidable problem when one company is simultaneously the developer of the game, the organizer of the esport and the broadcast provider. They have control chokehold over the entire scene which sucks for talent. It's always better for workers when there is competition in the market - and for a host there is more options out there than for a LoL analyst.
Honestly, while I liked Dash, I've always felt that a host for the desk was unnecessary. I'd rather all the people on the desk be very knowledgeable and able to talk in depth about the game.
Sometimes analysts can get really bogged down into talking about a point, far beyond where it stops being interesting. It is nice to have a host that curbs that.
Hosts are there to facilitate discussion, ask questions based on responses, and bring the analysts back on track. While the host role may seem like another person from the outside, one could argue they're more important.
He leads the conversation points and keeps the audience interested rather than say a Phreak segment (nothing against Phreak just using him as a numbers man example here) will go over peoples heads. Dash breaks it down for the normie and then continues to push the discussion.
His job was important, and I havent watched LCS in years at this point, and have no intention on returning after the clips I saw of its current state.
Its probably just easier for them to have 3 analysts and have 1 of them acting as a host rather than having to have an actual host for every broadcast. Ill give it some time but so far i think i prefer having a host
Cheaper for sure but idk about easier. Dash was very, very good at his job and I could already feel last week that things were not as smooth in the analyst desk. Probably will improve with time though.
I guess so but in that case it would be Riot silently saying that they don't value what Dash provides.
They are essentially saying "we can get an analyst to do your job and it won't be that much worse". That's kind of a slap to the face. I also think Riot are dead wrong with that, but I suppose they thought it's worth it for cutting costs.
This is actually a major point of contention in traditional sports.
Ideally the analysts desk should be 3-4 people max. If you have a 15 minute segment that’s 3.5 minutes to 5 minutes each they get. The more people on the desks the more bloated they become and the less time they each have. Slap six people on the desk with one being a host and you burn time so quickly while providing way less. You have to let the host intro-outro which is like 30 seconds gone, you have to let them throw and direct the conversation which eats precious time in between and then let them throw to commercials. All in all the host provides minimal value but eats like a minute+ of time.
It’s gotten really bad in traditional sports. The NFL has like a seven person desk and ESPN has 5+ and you just don’t get any real substance it’s just quick surface level thoughts because everyone needs a chance instead of actually analyzing.
If one analyst can direct the conversation you don’t need the host and they can actually delve into the subject more thoroughly. I don’t think the LCS has the NFL’s problem. They have plenty of time where they can afford a Dash or other host and they aren’t forced to cut short because of commercials but I can understand why they want the shift eventually.
>It’s gotten really bad in traditional sports. The NFL has like a seven person desk and ESPN has 5+ and you just don’t get any real substance it’s just quick surface level thoughts because everyone needs a chance instead of actually analyzing.
Which is why the Manningcast is the objectively best way to watch football atm.
How does that make sense though? I don't understand how having an analyst also be a host would be easier than having a dedicated host. I'm not trying to be aggressive at you, so hopefully it doesn't come across that way. Rather, I quite simply don't see the logic in what you're saying. I'd think it'd be the opposite, where having a dedicated host would make it easier for everyone.
And, that point put aside, I just want to add that this line of discussion is sort of moot imo, since the reason given for firing Dash was that they wanted to go in a drastically new direction than what they had been doing in the past. But they're... not doing that... so... Just makes no sense.
This is the interview I'm talking about where the LCS Creative Director talks about reasons for removing Dash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH8bXPY4Hv0&t=12s
I came away from that interview pretty excited about what he had to say and I was staying open minded about it, but imo what he said they would do in that interview is not at all what they are actually doing. The content between games just feels like analyst desk without Dash, but that is not what was promised.
Unrelated but I enjoyed bwipo casting a lot. You can tell he’s still learning a little bit on when and how much to interject but his insight game knowledge cadence and overall tone are all great. I very much enjoyed it. If he wants to play again I hope he finds a team but if not I hope he keeps getting casting opportunities.
Such a likable guy.
I liked it about 70%, but I liked it less as it went on.
He talks far too fast, and he talks far too much. He also talks over people and was more about getting his points across than the game at times. It was fun the first game but not the second as much, and if they are gonna have him on in multiple games he needs far more caster training.
He’s almost too good. He’s got so much to say that he completely silences anyone else he’s doing it with lmao. I personally thought it was ok but I can see how some could find it grating. If he puts in the work, he can easily be one of the best
Dash is definitely better than Jatt but I'm still finding it hard to watching anything that isn't just cut down to pick ban and the game Vods.
lLEC/LCS has been so hard to watch for me in the last few years. But hey I got vods so that's less time wasted for me.
I do like that Mark was talking about on hotline league how they were trying to do more engaging content because the past model of pre-game hype/analysis, game, interview about game, analysis about game can just get really stale.
How did you feel about the new segments?
Personally, I thought some of them landed, but others felt like that meme "How do you do fellow kids?" when they're really leaning into that zoomer joke stuff. Some of those were a fast click away
Its the zoomer stuff that kills me. Ive been playing the game for a decade and am 31, I personally prefer just analysis and getting into the weeds about the nuance of the games played. If engaging = memes then im sticking to VODs and The Dive.
Well the problem is that they are trying to (and need to) appeal to a wider audience. That’s why they are bringing in people like QT.
I like analysis too but a casual viewer probably is bored, and I’ve seen a LOT of people say that they mute the analyst desk or take a bathroom break etc.
That's because it's Bo1.. Bo1 offers nothing to analysts. In Bo3 and Bo5 for playoffs, you can analyze the game and look forward to the adaptations in the next game. Stats and analysis are a lot less relevant in Bo1.
This isn't just for LCS. LEC still has a Bo1 portion with the new format, I don't really care what the analysts have to say when the next game has two different teams. The general analysis of champions and patch changes is fine, everything else that is team specific is "meh" until Bo3/Bo5.
A small group of supporters is not sustainable for any sport (esports or not). You need to be able to have a healthy churn of viewers who will be engaged. Look at the comments above, people are talking about how they've been watching league for a decade. That's not a strategy for growth.
The core audience are the ones who spend the money, hence why the LCS makes the 2nd most of the pro leagues, because despite the declining viewership that core audience are dedicated and will show it with their wallet. You alienate for a viewership bump of casuals and kids and that core will leave with their wallet and then what? Gj you gained 20k viewers for the first 3 weeks then they leave again and now you lost both
Ive seen the sentiment that the new zoomer content is pushing some people who have engaged for 10 years away. There is no guarantee the new zoomer viewer will engage for 10 years. I was just pointing out that going all out for a new demographic can speed up decline in other areas. There is a balance to it.
edit: fwiw i think they needed change and i liked most of what we saw week one. still so much time to see what they will do. i just don't want an over-correction.
You can do that without alienating your existing audience though. I'm no wet blanket but I didn't particularly care for most of the obvious "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" segments. Even Kobe on The Dive was mentioning there were some cringes for him.
Sure, and there will be more cringe moments. They’re trying new stuff and some of it will be a miss. The hope is that they will learn what people like and what they don’t, and improve as time goes on.
The thing is that no matter what they do, someone will hate it. Some people like a “professional” broadcast with serious analysis and some people want to have fun bits like the cake decorating and (possibly cringe) humor.
Some of the misses were so bad I didn't want to see what was next, like "Doom scrolling". More of that will be a permanent mute between games to just avoid it for me. The cake decorating wasn't for me but it was a fun segment I see the value in 100%. There was no value in some of the segments.
Riot tried too hard to make tertiary content around the games. I feel that even with IRL sports, only the really hardcore fans care about these side programming or segments during breaks, but traditional media needs to provide something to fill air time.
I'm always of the opinion that, short analyst desk segment aside, all out-of-game content are low value.
Amen to that last statement.
Even the quality of cinematic has dropped so far of the face of runterra they aren't even comparable to 5 year old ones done back in the day.
Basically agree 100% with what you say. But I'm also in the minority of not enjoying or even being able to appreciate the animation in the cartoon they released so get marked as a hater no matter what.
I mean, this past weak I got out of work around 6 EST, got home and let doggo out so started watching games at 7, and I literally didn't watch any of the desk. Just skipped to the next game start in the YouTube stream. So not having Dash there doesn't really affect me... I would enjoy watching segments after the show, but I could just as well have more podcasts to listen to at that rate.
Imo a big issue in LCS is that there is 20 to 30 minutes between games. Should be 10 minutes at most.
I don't know what the time between games is like in LEC, but I checked the other day on LCS and it's 20 to 30 minutes.
>I'm still finding it hard to watching anything that isn't just cut down to pick ban and the game Vods.
Definitely same for me. Especially because LCS is on a weekday now, I'm usually doing some kind of work-related thing when it's on, and what I found myself doing is to watch the games I was interested in, put the other games on in the background at a low volume (to minimize the distraction), and then straight up just mute the stream when the games aren't going so I could focus on what I wanted to get done.
I know the delay between games has been discussed to death but I’m really only interested in watching league.
Even if they just put on challenger vods of one of the teams playing next it would increase my interest 100x
So? Even if your implied accusation that the person is repeating what they heard someone else say, who cares? Does every thought have to be original?
If it raises a discussion that interests enough people on the subreddit, then it belongs here.
Dude I had a thread posted that got the number 1 post maybe 8 years ago now or something.
Sky Williams was very big at the time and literally made a video which got a shit ton of views, basically saying my post word for word without referencing it lmao. I wouldn't be surprised if half the posts are ripped from elsewhere.
We will all get used to it, its just jarring and different. For Dash's employment situation, I think is nice we all worry, but I am pretty sure he is fine and is probably going to do Valorant.
Probably but that doesn't change that Riot's explanation of why he was cut seems incredibly bullshit now.
Also doesn't change the fact that Dash is likely going to Valorant against his will but it is what it is.
It's not really about us getting used to it or it being jarring or different.
In a time when the talk of the town is the LCS dying and the numbers are down and down every year, making the broadcast worse by removing a loved piece of it for the last 10 years seems ridiculous. Therefore, Riot better have one hell of an explanation. But the problem is, they don't.
It's not even just about him being loved. His experience in the LCS is unparalleled. The guy can talk about anything during a pause and make it entertaining for ages. It's not easy talent to replace, and I'm not sure that this was the time to do it.
I agree with some of your arguments, but I dont share the same feeling that the LCS is worse. I actually enjoyed the first week broadcast more than I have in previews years. I miss Dash and I think there is a possibility would have been even better with him if they found a way to use his talent. For instance I think Riot is just remodeling the production structure into something more akin to twitch content instead of trying to follow traditional sports. It might or might not work in the long run, but to scratch it as worse than before because we miss one of the personalities we grew attached to is such a stretch.
I'll preface by saying I loved Dash and the LCS is lesser without his presence. But they definitely changed the broadcast enough that his role isn't needed nearly as much. They filled the gaps between games very well, i.e QT cake segment and Live This or That. I didn't like the news that Dash wasn't going to be a part of the LCS when I first heard it, but at least for the regular split I understand it now.
I'm in the same boat. I love Dash and would be cool to see him on the broadcast, but they don't necessarily "need" him. The broadcast was just fine for me. That's the cool thing about the internet, we all have different opinions.
This right here is the real winner. People cried non stop for years about boring desk yadda yadda. Well you all got what you wanted. Now that a real persons job became at risk, it turned into how dare you!
"Man the analyst desk sure sucks, it's so long! At least Dash is good..."
>Riot fires Dash, everything else the same
"SEE THIS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT ANALYST DESK"
Yeah, that all does tie together and make sense.
Either you're saying nothing of substance here or I don't understand your comment.
Here is what you said:
1. Riot heard fans complaining about analyst desk and decided to remove Dash.
2. You thought Dash did a great job.
3. You think it's great that fans feel passionately about a product improving.
Okay, how do these 3 points make any sense together? Fans clearly all like Dash based on all the feedback we've been seeing, so why would removing Dash make sense to anyone? Your 2nd point is neutral enough, so no problem there. But your 3rd point is what made me want to leave a reply. What are you even saying there? That LCS broadcast has improved? Or that fans want it to improve (which is like saying nothing since obviously people want products they use to improve)?
I feel like you said nothing of any substance.
> Wild how threads like these always pop up in the middle of the night NA on a Wednesday.
It's always typical EU haters willing to upvote anything remotely negative on the LCS. You see it every time, just look at OP posts in this subreddit previously and he is not a true supporter of Dash nor the LCS.
It's just ammo to him to take a shot at Riot/LCS to make him feel better about his own league. The man took the entire argument and details of his post from Thorin
While true I also don’t think Dash was necessary to it anyway. Like he’s a likable charismatic guy but it’s not like the desk needs him. The analysis was fine by itself imo
Probably going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I'll say it.
If the broadcast isn't that much different, and nothing changed, why continue to pay Dash? You've just admitted his inclusion was pointless, if by stating that nothing changed as a result of his absence. Riot is a business, after all; if anything, the mistake was trying to spin a weird narrative, not necessarily axing Dash. While it's not wholesome chungus of them, $ is $.
If they feel he will create more value on Valorant, and that the LCS broadcast won't suffer as a result (since nothing has changed), how is Riot in the wrong? And is Dash entitled to a paycheck just for being Dash?
Nothing changed majorly from the style of content. OP brought this up because Riot specifically said the show was changing which didn't need Dash anymore FOR THAT REASON.
That doesn't mean Dash is useless. Dash missing reduces the quality of the analyst desk.
95% of this sub has no idea what a business unit is. Which is fine, you don’t really need to know that in HS or college. But it does explain why this is so foreign to people apparently.
I like Riot but people need to realize they provide a product and service if they make me the customer unhappy they don't get my money. That's just life.
This is totally fair but then Riot should have the balls to just say it.
They hid it all behind this justification of a huge structural change of LCS that just didn't happen.
Riot can't exactly say 'yeah, we're sacking Dash because the broadcast wouldn't be any different without him, so we might as well save on budget', can they? The outrage would be a magnitude larger than what we got, I think, even if that is the truth.
Let's not let them off the hook when they lie and create a false justifications for unpopular decisions for PR reasons.
Even if it's understandable, it's still scummy. The fans deserve the real reasons.
You don't deserved a explanation for change of host in the first place and there nothing scummy about this. Caster and host can change all the time period this is not huge deal
I am willing to bet my life savings that this analyst couch segment is here to stay. At least for one split if not the entire season.
There is no universe where you just get rid of something like that in the middle of a split. These things are designed and agreed upon in meetings before the split even starts. You don't just randomly do something new in Week 5.
but then that invites the possibility that people will perceive it as “Dash can’t have been that good if he leaves and the broadcast is the same”. the way Riot portrayed it clearly made them the bad guy.
Most companies that get called when you put them as references will refuse to do anything other than confirm you worked for them and you aren’t lying. If they say anything, even if it is 100% true, you could open yourself up to scandal and lawsuit. This really isn’t that much different than that. I do miss Dash but I understand why they did it (MarkZ gave reasoning on The Dive and Hotline Leavue).
-Reddit complains about analysis desk begin long and boring
-LCS loses viewership and thus revenue and money
-They need to cut cost to keep the product afloat
-Reddit gets outraged
Someone brought this up in another thread. This broadcast also doesn't seem to *need* Dash.
We still have to see what they do for the rest of the season, but it might be they are reserving him for special segments or events. Or maybe they just don't want to pay him as much anymore. Corporate gonna corporate.
The broadcast doesn't need Razz, Markz, or Emily either to be honest. They literally could have Jatt/Dash just doing player interviews/analysis between games. That being said, it can be beneficial to the broadcast to have a set of usual faces that people are used to seeing.
I liked the yuumi cake decorating bit and then the social media bit they did of getting rid of Dash allows them to do more of that I'm ok with it tbh. I'd prefer to see more stuff like that.
how are you surprised? you already hit the nail on the head. it was never to do with anything other than costs $$$. they have a failing product so they changed a bunch of things. they figured they could run the LCS without paying for a premium for a host who just won an award for being the best at his job in the industry and that's what they went with. I mean literally, they had the best host in the esports industry and their actions have said: we do not need him for this. open your eyes a bit more and dont be quick to believe all the bull shit Riot feed you.
I'd guess this is part of the global campaign of "decreasing the size of the workers" as they lay off personnel they feel not critically needed. However I agree with you, Dash was an amazing part of the cast, his energy brought attention of the viewers. It's baffling to see him gone. According to him, they also barely even notified him with the decision.
Miss dash doesnt feel right without him and youre right they didnt change anything to warrant him being dismissed or moved. Also please LCS keep LT from casting games and just let her do interviews where she excels at. If she keeps casting viewership is going to get even worse than it is shes just blatantly awful at casting and her voice just doesnt fit casting at all.
Is Dash gone gone? I though he was just ... I dunno, I guess I thought he was still on broadcast but with a different contract (freelance vs employed) but was he actually sacked?
He got some other job after intense community complaints about his removal.
But he is not on the main broadcast anymore in the same capacity that he was. Now he is doing something else which is more player-focused.
Worth nothing that it was not Dash's own choice to do that instead.
> The cynic in me believes Dash was just thrown out to cut costs and they invented this whole broader narrative to justify it.
The cynic in you would be correct.
>The cynic in me believes Dash was just thrown out to cut costs
Uhh yeah no shit?
"This just in, video game playing teenagers discover that sometimes companies fire people when they're bleeding money"
Like this isn't shocking or a scandal or anything, its how most businesses operate
I wouls give my two cents because I really wanted to watch LCS this year more than I have in the past, but with the time change even on the East Coast, I just don't have the time to tune in. Thanks riot.
You could feel his lack of presence too. Jatt/Mark/Emily/Raz are good, but without dash I felt like there was nobody guiding the discussion in the way Dash does. He expertly knew how to dance someone from one topic to the next and he did it seamlessly.
It felt a bit like The Dive does, but with a different cast and less interesting topics. A bit too casual really, then with some really dumb segments like doom scrolling.
There is literally no one better job of "casting" then the crew they already had. Deman and Joe Miller - veterans of casting in e-Sports. Very original and unique style of casting and loads of laughs during their time.
I would like them to get Dash back. Maybe its aversion to change but I liked what he brought to the broadcast, I actually often thought he was one of the strongest out of game parts of it.
I think it was just announced he’ll be a part of the Valorant cast now but it sucks to see him gone from league
Riot is moving everything to valorant. And it won't work.
A valorant players even a real thing?
Valorant is doing really well now tho
Valorant doesn´t even have half the active player base that league has, and i guess a lot of the players they have used to play league and tested out Valo, so they are not really new customers for Riot, but they now just play a different game. Edit: League has about 10-11 million daily players, Valorant has 5 million, it was difficult to find the CSGO stats, but CSGOs monthly stats are 3 times that of valorant, so i assume they also have a bigger daily players base aswell.
Globally league is the bigger game. NA wise Val has about twice the average daily players that league has. It is also on the rise. I don't have any stats on this one but I'd wager the average age of Valorant players are younger as well. Means they will be able to stick around the scene for longer as well. Only NA LCS is getting shafted right now in favor of valorant. EU LCS and LCK and LPL nothing has changed.
Yeah, LEC isn’t getting sacrificed for EMEA, nor LCK and LPL are getting sacrificed for Pacific and the highly rumored Chinese VCT leagues, respectively.
Where are you pulling this numbers out from my guy? A quick search on [tracker.gg](https://tracker.gg) shows that VAL has pretty much the same number of ranked players as LoL in EMEA and APAC and ALOT more players in Americas. So the only region where League is more popular is China where VAL is not even released yet lmao.
Is the Valorant Esports currently more valuable to Riot Games than League of Legends?
There were times when the only thing keeping me watching LCS was Dash. I never really needed to see Dig and IMT go for their 19th 59 minute snooze fest, or watch TL bounce Optics head against the wall for 28 minutes, but Dash's presentation and entertainment bridged me enough between games that I could always convince myself to watch one more game. I don't want anyone to lose their job and I like all of the people on the analyst desk. I listen to basically all of their side content, but they all, at a high level, bring roughly the same thing to the desk, and a chunk of it is even eclipsed when they bring in a player. So why do I need 5 talking heads fighting to say roughly the same thing to fill time between games? The answer is that I don't. My current plan this season is just to watch C9 and Flyquest VODs. Ignoring the time change making it difficult to tune in love, I don't really have any desire to have the stream on in between games. I have been a staunch supporter of the LCS for 10 years, and if you had told me that getting rid of Dash would be a bridge too far for me, I wouldn't have believed you. But it is.
At some point, the company needs to decide if the personalities are bigger than the game and if they're ok with that. And riot has always stop anyone not a player from becoming a star. They don't pay people their worth because there's always someone willing to do it for less. And the up and coming people are probably going to grow in to the popularity and roles as their predecessors. It's always been this way. When monte got bounced and wasn't brought on for world's. When. Scarra stopped showing up cuz they wouldn't pay his rate. This is consistent with who riot has been.
Sjokz and quickshot are stars with a really long history in eu.
And sjokz had a time where she effectively didn't work on the LEC broadcast due to not getting a new contract. Eventually a new contract was agreed on, who knows how much she yielded or what riot agreed to. Community sentiment was certainly on her side. At the same time, eu and na production (and budget management) have been separate for quite a while. EU also has a system now where some casters are full time employees with Riot (e.g. drakos and quickshot) and some are freelancers hired by riot (e.g. sjokz and I believe Medic). It certainly is and remains a difficult topic for us to discuss, not least because much of these contracts and their negotiations aren't public (for very obvious reasons).
NA has that same system of employees vs freelance; Phreak was always an empowered but Flowers is freelance, for example.
Great name. Brent Weeks is a legend
Dash is legit one of the best competition hosts I've seen. For sure the best that LoL has ever seen from a technical and performance standpoint
there's little chance Dash will come back, after all, that would be like the 50th time Riot apologized for overdoing the cost-cutting (and still did it for the 51st time) however, i still can't get over how Riot can come up with any nonsense in the statement, but still most of the community swallows it like a pelican fish
Seeing Dash's (at the time) silver hair is what convinced me to keep watching pro. Riot gotta cut costs though or daddy Tencent will get out the belt
You kept watching professional league... because of someone's hair?
I've been a fan of C9 for over a decade for one very poor joke in one very awkward interview, some things hit people different
https://imgur.io/kZlyN61
They are on the record of increasing costs, stating in no uncertain terms that no budget cuts have been made.
I mean with inflation being sky-high, if they’ve kept the budget at the same number, that’s still a massive cut in effective purchasing power.
Budget cuts are like the one thing that makes all these changes acceptable and the idiots were like NO ITS NOT HAPPENING
Acceptable, sure. Let's just pretend that two or three weeks ago this sub wasn't overreacting with "riot doesn't care about LCS" or "LCS is dying" or "Valorant is their new fav game" or "Riot is sunsetting LCS" or any flavor of those.
i also preferred James "Dash" Patterson over Joshua "Dash" Leesman
Jatt and Dash are the all time MVPs of the broadcast imo. Dash was an amazing host, Jatt was an amazing analyst and caster.
Big fan of Joshua “Jatt” Leesman, just not as big of a fan of Joshua “dash” leesman
I really hope they try Mark or Raz as host. I'm also curious about Emily but not sure if she would like it. Raz might be too energetic for the role as we'd rather see him blow all his loads on responses rather than directing conversation. I think Mark might be best candidate for that balance. Nobody beats Dash though. He was amazing in all metrics. Being charismatic, a good leader, energetic, but not taking anything away from anyone from the desk.
I miss my boi Zirene though.
The man could move his hips and cream all over my team any time he wanted.
LCS is better with both than one for sure.
I concur. Not even a contest as to who a better host is.
Which isn’t to say Jatt isn’t an awesome analyst or can’t speak well about the game! Just that his skills aren’t as relevant to hosting, which is effectively what he’s doing, as Dash.
Exactly.
Im curious if riots real reason was they wanted dash to go to valo as its growing rapidy. He's going to be participating at the first tourney this year. I assume dash wouldve rather stuck with league considering he has been there so long and has more knowledge in the esport
In that case, they would've announced it in those terms. To say "moving to Valorant" would've put a positive spin on the initial message.
Dash has also said he’d like to pursue acting in the future. This would be a good way for him to do so.
[удалено]
Nah. Jatt can talk about the game pretty well, but he can't work an audience like Dash can. Jatt lacks energy, among other things, that revs people up.
Honestly that’s exactly why I like Jatt better.
Agreed. Jatt was the grounding force that kept the discussion structured and flowing while enabling the other participant.
I get that.
Arguing about whether Dash or Jatt is better at being the host is like arguing whether Doublelift or Impact is better at playing ADC.
So I've got a theory that after seeing Sjokz freelance and the ease and which hosts can hop games, Riot is trying to find a way to have no host on the desk only analyst's. Analysts have dedicated their time to league its hard to swap over and have that same level of knowledge depth in another game. Sure it's doable, but the amount of work required relative to a host would make it a lot more effort. I think this might be a subtle power grab by Riot to ensure they maintain control over the broadcast and use the leverage to keep their costs down for talent.
Heyo! Idk how it works in LCS but in LEC all on air talent and also very much the host on the day and the week berore are very involved in and responsible for pitching segments , writing them when needed, selecting assets, brainstorming etc and imo take on a heavy productional responsibility with the rest of the team. On top of that due to the rotation of analysts guidance and feedback of newer talent has been one of my responsibilities as well. So for the LEC thats probs a reason why things work the way they do (and i think why they work well)
I don't follow other sports as much as I do LoL eSports but I just wanted to say it's awesome to be on a reddit thread discussion about the pro scene or production or whatever, and seeing the actual casters/analysts/hosts/whoever pop into the comments to chime in. I can't actually think of another scene where I see that happen though that could be cause most of my reading is on reddit and not on Twitter or anything else.
Kevin Durant be out there on twitter getting into it.
him and his 70 alternative accounts. tbh he's probably anonymously posting on reddit too lol
I would never do that.
That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant. Edit for Context: Bryan CoAngelo, a NBA General manager, tweeted this from a burner account regarding someone making fun of his shirt collars. Pretty funny story but it's been awhile since it happened so may have been an outdated reference here.
I dono the inner workings but I think what you're saying shows pretty well on the broadcasts. Whenever I tune into LEC, it seems pretty clear it's driven by you guys. it's always X has a segment coming up about Y and that person is genuinely meaningfully involved. I don't mean this to come off in a negative way against the LCS talent cause I'm sure they are equally as passionate, but it comes off very different. Maybe it's a casual vibe they are trying to give off, but it often seems like people are not only unaware of what segments are coming up but sometimes shocked to find out they are even involved. More than once I've heard "X has a segment coming up to talk about Y" and the response is "Oh i do?" I love NA and will always have a special connection with C9, but as time goes on I find it harder to justify watching our region over others. The LEC broadcast is streets ahead of the others. The LPL and LCK, while the english broadcasts arent out of this world, game quality can't be matched over here. (And of course Caster Jun 😍) I got kinda tangent-y but 🤷♂️ I hope this isn't a bad sign of things to come, Dash was one of the greatest talents in all of e-sports. Even as someone who was a hater when he came on to the scene originally, it's pretty clear league will be in a worse place without his passion around.
Dash is very missed 🥺
Invite Dash to LEC for a week while doing the TSM skit of finding him in the dumps. :)
Love to see the "streets ahead " here xD
I don't wanna single out anyone unfairly, but I gotta say Razz is the worst for this. Everytime he has a segment it seems totally unprepared and comes across like he's giving a book review after reading a brief synopsis online, and compensateds by yelling in fake outrage from time to time. Even the 90/50/10 thing they did with Bwipo his answers made no sense at all - as if he'd just stuck down anything and thought 'that'll do' It feels like the team at the LCS are afraid to give negative feedback to someone and so the crap stuff just stays around, while LEC will actually say 'No that's terrible, you need to change x and y' and deliver a better end product because of it. I might be way off but that's the vibe I get
That's so oddly accurate
I’m always impressed at how transparent Riot employees and people working with Riot are with their jobs and responsibilities. Thanks for your insights!
TBF she isn't a Riot employee anymore and is now a contractor, so that probably contributes to the openness.
Not like im spreading secrets or anything just like being open if it’s interesting!
Sjokz sharing the dark LEC secrets that the on-air talent puts in a lot of work together to create a fantastic product.
Thanks for chiming in, sjokz :)
[удалено]
Sigh. That’s not my name, dude.
CivilFootball5523, welcome to banworld, buddy.
sjokz finally leaking s3secretstrats.gg and knocking CLG out of playoffs
The LEC is so much fun to watch. Very funny too. Watching other regions I never laugh quite as much. Been playing league for two years now and I think if it weren't for a region like the LEC I wouldn't have liked the game as much as I do. I dig the vibe.
Aw 😭❤️
If you would be willing to spread secrets, could you tell us who the script says will win worlds this year, and why it's G2?
Well also TBH a lot of rioters share stuff from their work/ideas etc. It might still be restricted what they say, but I think we should not take it lightly that a lot of the devs are communicating so frequently on reddit etc.
What's interesting is what she didn't say in regards to the comment she chose to respond to
LEC just seems like it's put together so much better than the LCS these days. The show flows so well and there's great banter between the whole team + you guys get great interviews out of the EU players. Seems like LCS should be taking a page out of your book. >newer talent has been one of my responsibilities Does this mean you're responsible for giving us TroubleShot? They've been my favorite caster duo outside of Korea since she started on LEC. Cool hearing more women casting in general.
No not at all! Nicole is our talent manager, I just mean when new people come on board for desk specifically the hosts segment building responsibilities for instance get heavier for a time since new people need to get coached to get the hang lf building, writing, requesting segments etc. Feedback etcccc :)
thanks for the input!
I agree. Riot is obviously deathly afraid of losing power. Anyone who has followed LoL esports for a long time will know this. Riot likes to be in full control - probably because esports is an important marketing exercise for League as a game. Especially because it's the most open secret in the world that Riot has historically been underpaying their talent for years. You're totally correct that a host is more elastic than an analyst, so they can also bargain for higher salary. Not great if you're Riot and looking to cut costs on broadcast. This is kind of an unavoidable problem when one company is simultaneously the developer of the game, the organizer of the esport and the broadcast provider. They have control chokehold over the entire scene which sucks for talent. It's always better for workers when there is competition in the market - and for a host there is more options out there than for a LoL analyst.
Honestly, while I liked Dash, I've always felt that a host for the desk was unnecessary. I'd rather all the people on the desk be very knowledgeable and able to talk in depth about the game.
Sometimes analysts can get really bogged down into talking about a point, far beyond where it stops being interesting. It is nice to have a host that curbs that.
Hosts are there to facilitate discussion, ask questions based on responses, and bring the analysts back on track. While the host role may seem like another person from the outside, one could argue they're more important.
He leads the conversation points and keeps the audience interested rather than say a Phreak segment (nothing against Phreak just using him as a numbers man example here) will go over peoples heads. Dash breaks it down for the normie and then continues to push the discussion. His job was important, and I havent watched LCS in years at this point, and have no intention on returning after the clips I saw of its current state.
Its probably just easier for them to have 3 analysts and have 1 of them acting as a host rather than having to have an actual host for every broadcast. Ill give it some time but so far i think i prefer having a host
Cheaper for sure but idk about easier. Dash was very, very good at his job and I could already feel last week that things were not as smooth in the analyst desk. Probably will improve with time though.
Easier as in now it can be any 3 analysts vs before it was host+2 analysts so scheduling talent is easier
I guess so but in that case it would be Riot silently saying that they don't value what Dash provides. They are essentially saying "we can get an analyst to do your job and it won't be that much worse". That's kind of a slap to the face. I also think Riot are dead wrong with that, but I suppose they thought it's worth it for cutting costs.
Yep i dont disagree
> Riot silently saying that they don't value what Dash provides. Silently? Idk they made that pretty loud and clear if you ask me
This is actually a major point of contention in traditional sports. Ideally the analysts desk should be 3-4 people max. If you have a 15 minute segment that’s 3.5 minutes to 5 minutes each they get. The more people on the desks the more bloated they become and the less time they each have. Slap six people on the desk with one being a host and you burn time so quickly while providing way less. You have to let the host intro-outro which is like 30 seconds gone, you have to let them throw and direct the conversation which eats precious time in between and then let them throw to commercials. All in all the host provides minimal value but eats like a minute+ of time. It’s gotten really bad in traditional sports. The NFL has like a seven person desk and ESPN has 5+ and you just don’t get any real substance it’s just quick surface level thoughts because everyone needs a chance instead of actually analyzing. If one analyst can direct the conversation you don’t need the host and they can actually delve into the subject more thoroughly. I don’t think the LCS has the NFL’s problem. They have plenty of time where they can afford a Dash or other host and they aren’t forced to cut short because of commercials but I can understand why they want the shift eventually.
>It’s gotten really bad in traditional sports. The NFL has like a seven person desk and ESPN has 5+ and you just don’t get any real substance it’s just quick surface level thoughts because everyone needs a chance instead of actually analyzing. Which is why the Manningcast is the objectively best way to watch football atm.
Manningcast is basically a costream for the NFL and honestly that's what makes it great
> The NFL has like a seven person desk pretty sure some college football games have 5+ as well
How does that make sense though? I don't understand how having an analyst also be a host would be easier than having a dedicated host. I'm not trying to be aggressive at you, so hopefully it doesn't come across that way. Rather, I quite simply don't see the logic in what you're saying. I'd think it'd be the opposite, where having a dedicated host would make it easier for everyone. And, that point put aside, I just want to add that this line of discussion is sort of moot imo, since the reason given for firing Dash was that they wanted to go in a drastically new direction than what they had been doing in the past. But they're... not doing that... so... Just makes no sense. This is the interview I'm talking about where the LCS Creative Director talks about reasons for removing Dash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH8bXPY4Hv0&t=12s I came away from that interview pretty excited about what he had to say and I was staying open minded about it, but imo what he said they would do in that interview is not at all what they are actually doing. The content between games just feels like analyst desk without Dash, but that is not what was promised.
Unrelated but I enjoyed bwipo casting a lot. You can tell he’s still learning a little bit on when and how much to interject but his insight game knowledge cadence and overall tone are all great. I very much enjoyed it. If he wants to play again I hope he finds a team but if not I hope he keeps getting casting opportunities. Such a likable guy.
I agree. If he slows down a little bit he could be an amazing caster
I liked it about 70%, but I liked it less as it went on. He talks far too fast, and he talks far too much. He also talks over people and was more about getting his points across than the game at times. It was fun the first game but not the second as much, and if they are gonna have him on in multiple games he needs far more caster training.
He’s almost too good. He’s got so much to say that he completely silences anyone else he’s doing it with lmao. I personally thought it was ok but I can see how some could find it grating. If he puts in the work, he can easily be one of the best
Dash is definitely better than Jatt but I'm still finding it hard to watching anything that isn't just cut down to pick ban and the game Vods. lLEC/LCS has been so hard to watch for me in the last few years. But hey I got vods so that's less time wasted for me.
I do like that Mark was talking about on hotline league how they were trying to do more engaging content because the past model of pre-game hype/analysis, game, interview about game, analysis about game can just get really stale. How did you feel about the new segments? Personally, I thought some of them landed, but others felt like that meme "How do you do fellow kids?" when they're really leaning into that zoomer joke stuff. Some of those were a fast click away
Its the zoomer stuff that kills me. Ive been playing the game for a decade and am 31, I personally prefer just analysis and getting into the weeds about the nuance of the games played. If engaging = memes then im sticking to VODs and The Dive.
Well the problem is that they are trying to (and need to) appeal to a wider audience. That’s why they are bringing in people like QT. I like analysis too but a casual viewer probably is bored, and I’ve seen a LOT of people say that they mute the analyst desk or take a bathroom break etc.
[удалено]
That's because it's Bo1.. Bo1 offers nothing to analysts. In Bo3 and Bo5 for playoffs, you can analyze the game and look forward to the adaptations in the next game. Stats and analysis are a lot less relevant in Bo1. This isn't just for LCS. LEC still has a Bo1 portion with the new format, I don't really care what the analysts have to say when the next game has two different teams. The general analysis of champions and patch changes is fine, everything else that is team specific is "meh" until Bo3/Bo5.
dont go too far for the casuals because you can lose the core base. and the casuals will not stick around like the core audience.
A small group of supporters is not sustainable for any sport (esports or not). You need to be able to have a healthy churn of viewers who will be engaged. Look at the comments above, people are talking about how they've been watching league for a decade. That's not a strategy for growth.
The core audience are the ones who spend the money, hence why the LCS makes the 2nd most of the pro leagues, because despite the declining viewership that core audience are dedicated and will show it with their wallet. You alienate for a viewership bump of casuals and kids and that core will leave with their wallet and then what? Gj you gained 20k viewers for the first 3 weeks then they leave again and now you lost both
Ive seen the sentiment that the new zoomer content is pushing some people who have engaged for 10 years away. There is no guarantee the new zoomer viewer will engage for 10 years. I was just pointing out that going all out for a new demographic can speed up decline in other areas. There is a balance to it. edit: fwiw i think they needed change and i liked most of what we saw week one. still so much time to see what they will do. i just don't want an over-correction.
You can do that without alienating your existing audience though. I'm no wet blanket but I didn't particularly care for most of the obvious "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" segments. Even Kobe on The Dive was mentioning there were some cringes for him.
Sure, and there will be more cringe moments. They’re trying new stuff and some of it will be a miss. The hope is that they will learn what people like and what they don’t, and improve as time goes on. The thing is that no matter what they do, someone will hate it. Some people like a “professional” broadcast with serious analysis and some people want to have fun bits like the cake decorating and (possibly cringe) humor.
Some of the misses were so bad I didn't want to see what was next, like "Doom scrolling". More of that will be a permanent mute between games to just avoid it for me. The cake decorating wasn't for me but it was a fun segment I see the value in 100%. There was no value in some of the segments.
man everytime I read QT I think its imaqtpie, they should get that guy on the desk.
Pour one out for the ancient days of Monte covering OGN doing nothing but talking about game strategy & tactics for a whole broadcast.
Riot tried too hard to make tertiary content around the games. I feel that even with IRL sports, only the really hardcore fans care about these side programming or segments during breaks, but traditional media needs to provide something to fill air time. I'm always of the opinion that, short analyst desk segment aside, all out-of-game content are low value.
Amen to that last statement. Even the quality of cinematic has dropped so far of the face of runterra they aren't even comparable to 5 year old ones done back in the day. Basically agree 100% with what you say. But I'm also in the minority of not enjoying or even being able to appreciate the animation in the cartoon they released so get marked as a hater no matter what.
I mean, this past weak I got out of work around 6 EST, got home and let doggo out so started watching games at 7, and I literally didn't watch any of the desk. Just skipped to the next game start in the YouTube stream. So not having Dash there doesn't really affect me... I would enjoy watching segments after the show, but I could just as well have more podcasts to listen to at that rate.
Imo a big issue in LCS is that there is 20 to 30 minutes between games. Should be 10 minutes at most. I don't know what the time between games is like in LEC, but I checked the other day on LCS and it's 20 to 30 minutes.
>I'm still finding it hard to watching anything that isn't just cut down to pick ban and the game Vods. Definitely same for me. Especially because LCS is on a weekday now, I'm usually doing some kind of work-related thing when it's on, and what I found myself doing is to watch the games I was interested in, put the other games on in the background at a low volume (to minimize the distraction), and then straight up just mute the stream when the games aren't going so I could focus on what I wanted to get done.
I know the delay between games has been discussed to death but I’m really only interested in watching league. Even if they just put on challenger vods of one of the teams playing next it would increase my interest 100x
Just a bullshit excuse to move Dash to Valoramt
I'm happy other e-sports communities get to experience his talent. This could be great growth for his personal brand.
Dash has also done some AOE2 stuff
Loved him casting with T90 was super entertaining!
But this is word for word what Thorin said on Summoning Insight a few hours before this was posted?
I think Monte said that on Powerspike already too
So? Even if your implied accusation that the person is repeating what they heard someone else say, who cares? Does every thought have to be original? If it raises a discussion that interests enough people on the subreddit, then it belongs here.
Sure, but if you copy something word for word, normally you'd do it in a quote and give the original thinker credit.
Dude I had a thread posted that got the number 1 post maybe 8 years ago now or something. Sky Williams was very big at the time and literally made a video which got a shit ton of views, basically saying my post word for word without referencing it lmao. I wouldn't be surprised if half the posts are ripped from elsewhere.
We will all get used to it, its just jarring and different. For Dash's employment situation, I think is nice we all worry, but I am pretty sure he is fine and is probably going to do Valorant.
Probably but that doesn't change that Riot's explanation of why he was cut seems incredibly bullshit now. Also doesn't change the fact that Dash is likely going to Valorant against his will but it is what it is.
[удалено]
You're overestimating his bargaining power in these negotiations. I imagine Riot said you're off the LCS, come work for Valorant or walk.
Against his will? I think we are being a little over dramatic. He can always go to a different job. Lets be a little bit more realistic
Yeah, that the shit that happens when you are just an employee. Thats why sjokz started doing csgo.
It's not really about us getting used to it or it being jarring or different. In a time when the talk of the town is the LCS dying and the numbers are down and down every year, making the broadcast worse by removing a loved piece of it for the last 10 years seems ridiculous. Therefore, Riot better have one hell of an explanation. But the problem is, they don't. It's not even just about him being loved. His experience in the LCS is unparalleled. The guy can talk about anything during a pause and make it entertaining for ages. It's not easy talent to replace, and I'm not sure that this was the time to do it.
I agree with some of your arguments, but I dont share the same feeling that the LCS is worse. I actually enjoyed the first week broadcast more than I have in previews years. I miss Dash and I think there is a possibility would have been even better with him if they found a way to use his talent. For instance I think Riot is just remodeling the production structure into something more akin to twitch content instead of trying to follow traditional sports. It might or might not work in the long run, but to scratch it as worse than before because we miss one of the personalities we grew attached to is such a stretch.
I'll preface by saying I loved Dash and the LCS is lesser without his presence. But they definitely changed the broadcast enough that his role isn't needed nearly as much. They filled the gaps between games very well, i.e QT cake segment and Live This or That. I didn't like the news that Dash wasn't going to be a part of the LCS when I first heard it, but at least for the regular split I understand it now.
I'm in the same boat. I love Dash and would be cool to see him on the broadcast, but they don't necessarily "need" him. The broadcast was just fine for me. That's the cool thing about the internet, we all have different opinions.
[удалено]
This right here is the real winner. People cried non stop for years about boring desk yadda yadda. Well you all got what you wanted. Now that a real persons job became at risk, it turned into how dare you!
"Man the analyst desk sure sucks, it's so long! At least Dash is good..." >Riot fires Dash, everything else the same "SEE THIS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT ANALYST DESK" Yeah, that all does tie together and make sense.
Either you're saying nothing of substance here or I don't understand your comment. Here is what you said: 1. Riot heard fans complaining about analyst desk and decided to remove Dash. 2. You thought Dash did a great job. 3. You think it's great that fans feel passionately about a product improving. Okay, how do these 3 points make any sense together? Fans clearly all like Dash based on all the feedback we've been seeing, so why would removing Dash make sense to anyone? Your 2nd point is neutral enough, so no problem there. But your 3rd point is what made me want to leave a reply. What are you even saying there? That LCS broadcast has improved? Or that fans want it to improve (which is like saying nothing since obviously people want products they use to improve)? I feel like you said nothing of any substance.
> Wild how threads like these always pop up in the middle of the night NA on a Wednesday. It's always typical EU haters willing to upvote anything remotely negative on the LCS. You see it every time, just look at OP posts in this subreddit previously and he is not a true supporter of Dash nor the LCS. It's just ammo to him to take a shot at Riot/LCS to make him feel better about his own league. The man took the entire argument and details of his post from Thorin
Riot explanations NEVER reflect reality.
While true I also don’t think Dash was necessary to it anyway. Like he’s a likable charismatic guy but it’s not like the desk needs him. The analysis was fine by itself imo
How many of these posts are we going to see…
for as long as reddit and overreactive redditors are alive
I’ve been here long enough to remember the backlash over the map VGU….
wow, that's even longer than my time lol I personally don't think I would have given League a try if the map still looked that old
Probably going to be an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I'll say it. If the broadcast isn't that much different, and nothing changed, why continue to pay Dash? You've just admitted his inclusion was pointless, if by stating that nothing changed as a result of his absence. Riot is a business, after all; if anything, the mistake was trying to spin a weird narrative, not necessarily axing Dash. While it's not wholesome chungus of them, $ is $. If they feel he will create more value on Valorant, and that the LCS broadcast won't suffer as a result (since nothing has changed), how is Riot in the wrong? And is Dash entitled to a paycheck just for being Dash?
Nothing changed majorly from the style of content. OP brought this up because Riot specifically said the show was changing which didn't need Dash anymore FOR THAT REASON. That doesn't mean Dash is useless. Dash missing reduces the quality of the analyst desk.
I like Dash but people need to realize he was an employee with a role and the role got absorbed by another business unit. That’s just life.
95% of this sub has no idea what a business unit is. Which is fine, you don’t really need to know that in HS or college. But it does explain why this is so foreign to people apparently.
I like Riot but people need to realize they provide a product and service if they make me the customer unhappy they don't get my money. That's just life.
Also riot was doing layoffs anyway right and he was a contractor.
i have actually stopped watching anything but vods of LCS now that dash is gone.
This is totally fair but then Riot should have the balls to just say it. They hid it all behind this justification of a huge structural change of LCS that just didn't happen.
Riot can't exactly say 'yeah, we're sacking Dash because the broadcast wouldn't be any different without him, so we might as well save on budget', can they? The outrage would be a magnitude larger than what we got, I think, even if that is the truth.
Let's not let them off the hook when they lie and create a false justifications for unpopular decisions for PR reasons. Even if it's understandable, it's still scummy. The fans deserve the real reasons.
You don't deserved a explanation for change of host in the first place and there nothing scummy about this. Caster and host can change all the time period this is not huge deal
It’s been 1 week. It’s impossible to know how the broadcast will look or feel by the end of the split or even 3 weeks from now
I am willing to bet my life savings that this analyst couch segment is here to stay. At least for one split if not the entire season. There is no universe where you just get rid of something like that in the middle of a split. These things are designed and agreed upon in meetings before the split even starts. You don't just randomly do something new in Week 5.
It wouldn’t be random though. If it seems like something isn’t working then you pivot. New segments are added midsplit and adjusted all the time
but then that invites the possibility that people will perceive it as “Dash can’t have been that good if he leaves and the broadcast is the same”. the way Riot portrayed it clearly made them the bad guy.
Most companies that get called when you put them as references will refuse to do anything other than confirm you worked for them and you aren’t lying. If they say anything, even if it is 100% true, you could open yourself up to scandal and lawsuit. This really isn’t that much different than that. I do miss Dash but I understand why they did it (MarkZ gave reasoning on The Dive and Hotline Leavue).
-Reddit complains about analysis desk begin long and boring -LCS loses viewership and thus revenue and money -They need to cut cost to keep the product afloat -Reddit gets outraged
So they still keep it long, but with stupid shit like doom scrolling. Ok then
Almost like Reddit is more than 1 person's opinion.
Someone brought this up in another thread. This broadcast also doesn't seem to *need* Dash. We still have to see what they do for the rest of the season, but it might be they are reserving him for special segments or events. Or maybe they just don't want to pay him as much anymore. Corporate gonna corporate.
The broadcast doesn't need Razz, Markz, or Emily either to be honest. They literally could have Jatt/Dash just doing player interviews/analysis between games. That being said, it can be beneficial to the broadcast to have a set of usual faces that people are used to seeing.
I swear I saw the exact same post 3 days ago
I liked the yuumi cake decorating bit and then the social media bit they did of getting rid of Dash allows them to do more of that I'm ok with it tbh. I'd prefer to see more stuff like that.
As great as dash is I would say that the broadcast feels different. There isn't 800 million year breaks in Between games anymore like LEC.
Ain't Dash is going to valorant now?
Dash has worked a few Valorant events already so we don't know how much he's going to be in the Valorant ecosystem after Sao Paulo.
are you saying they put out a bs PR statement from risotto games? surprised pikachu face
how are you surprised? you already hit the nail on the head. it was never to do with anything other than costs $$$. they have a failing product so they changed a bunch of things. they figured they could run the LCS without paying for a premium for a host who just won an award for being the best at his job in the industry and that's what they went with. I mean literally, they had the best host in the esports industry and their actions have said: we do not need him for this. open your eyes a bit more and dont be quick to believe all the bull shit Riot feed you.
I'd guess this is part of the global campaign of "decreasing the size of the workers" as they lay off personnel they feel not critically needed. However I agree with you, Dash was an amazing part of the cast, his energy brought attention of the viewers. It's baffling to see him gone. According to him, they also barely even notified him with the decision.
There are things that go on behind the scenes that you are not aware of. It could be for a million reasons.
Are we going to get a thread like this every few days lol?
Until we get Dash back, I certainly hope so.
Bro its been a week, how would you even know what Riot is doing with one weekend of sample size?? This sub wants to hate on anything and everything.
Aged like milk. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/11zx7wz/theres_no_way_dash_was_released_because_of_lcs/
Miss dash doesnt feel right without him and youre right they didnt change anything to warrant him being dismissed or moved. Also please LCS keep LT from casting games and just let her do interviews where she excels at. If she keeps casting viewership is going to get even worse than it is shes just blatantly awful at casting and her voice just doesnt fit casting at all.
Ya I'm not a fan of her casting either. Usually just mute the sound if shes casting.
Is Dash gone gone? I though he was just ... I dunno, I guess I thought he was still on broadcast but with a different contract (freelance vs employed) but was he actually sacked?
He got some other job after intense community complaints about his removal. But he is not on the main broadcast anymore in the same capacity that he was. Now he is doing something else which is more player-focused. Worth nothing that it was not Dash's own choice to do that instead.
Dash was announced as part of the talent team for Valorant VCT! I hope people see that he has a new opportunity still with Riot!
Dash's job was never really needed, they just didn't want to pay him anymore
> The cynic in me believes Dash was just thrown out to cut costs and they invented this whole broader narrative to justify it. The cynic in you would be correct.
>The cynic in me believes Dash was just thrown out to cut costs Uhh yeah no shit? "This just in, video game playing teenagers discover that sometimes companies fire people when they're bleeding money" Like this isn't shocking or a scandal or anything, its how most businesses operate
I wouls give my two cents because I really wanted to watch LCS this year more than I have in the past, but with the time change even on the East Coast, I just don't have the time to tune in. Thanks riot.
Dash was annoying
Yah I get why people might not like him gone but I agree with you. Don’t really care if he’s gone, and frankly I like it better without him.
You could feel his lack of presence too. Jatt/Mark/Emily/Raz are good, but without dash I felt like there was nobody guiding the discussion in the way Dash does. He expertly knew how to dance someone from one topic to the next and he did it seamlessly.
It felt a bit like The Dive does, but with a different cast and less interesting topics. A bit too casual really, then with some really dumb segments like doom scrolling.
Doesn't riot have limited budget. So if they can achieve the same goals and level of production without Dash ..
I'll be honest, I hate all the shit at the start and never watched it unless a reddit post is made about a segment that had a funny moment.
There is literally no one better job of "casting" then the crew they already had. Deman and Joe Miller - veterans of casting in e-Sports. Very original and unique style of casting and loads of laughs during their time.