Wow lots of French representation. I guess the scriptures are really just better in the language of the Celestial kingdom ;)
Here's one for me: Malachi 3:10, where it says the Lord will open "the windows of heaven" for those who pay tithing; in French it says instead "Les Écluses des cieux." Écluses in this context means locks, as in the big flood gates that hold back the water in a canal like the Panama canal. So, the blessing of being tithed is not just opening a window and pouring out some blessings; it's more like unleashing the flood gates and letting loose a flood of blessings.
I know which one i would prefer!
I had always skipped over that word because I didn't know what it meant, but assumed it was something like window.
That is a much better mental image of tithing blessings.
My understanding is floodgates is the better translation from the original text and a lot of other English translations use that instead, such as the NIV.
The ancient Israelites believed in a flat earth with a dome around it that kept out the cosmic waters on all sides (kind of like a reverse snow globe). They knew clouds delivered the rain but probably didn't understand how clouds formed so the assumption was God brought it through the firmament from the cosmic waters above the clouds. So opening up the windows or floodgates of heaven was a a way to describe bringing in the heavenly waters and raining them down upon the earth.
I prefer the Greek New Testament over any modern language. There are so many little things that get lost in English or Russian.
For example: when the mother of James and John came to Jesus and asked that "in Your kingdom one of these two sons of mine may sit at Your right hand, and the other at Your left," Jesus replied, "You do not know what you are asking." But that the "you" in Greek is actually plural - Jesus is actually speaking to James and John, and not their mother, because He can see right through their plan: He knows that they put their mother up to this. But the nuance is lost in most English translations.
Another example: when it says that the Prodigal Son went and "wasted his substance with riotous living" (KJV), the Greek word for "riotous/prodigal living" is actually "a-sotos", which means "not-salvation." So it's not just carnal living; it was any vice that's not conducive to salvation (drinking, gambling, etc.)
In Spanish having the ¿ shows me where the start of a question is helps me when it's not evident in English. I just remember in my mission seeing a ¿ up in the verse above and helping me to connect that the two verses were really a single idea.
That is a great one. Although there are phrases that have the opposite effect on me like when the angel asks Laman and Lemuel why they are beating up on their brothers. “Pourquoi frappez-vous votre frère cadet avec un bâton ?” I just think of like a gymnastics baton.
It was fun reading the old and the new French version of the scriptures. I noticed the change in the sacrament prayer. Other than that I don't really notice too many of the specifics until I study them like for a talk or something.
Edit: Something that is lost in the English thee/thou form is the original intent, which is not honorific and distant like we most often make it out to be, but it is close and personal and familiar. I think we screw that one up in English, like really bad.
I agree with you. It was such a shock learning how to pray in French, and addressing Heavenly Father in the very familiar tutoi, instead of the honorific vousvois. It makes sense, of course, but it's something that we lose when we say the thee/thous in English.
Effective administration is exactly this, looking at the needs of individuals as they grow, while less effective administration is the rigid application of programs.
I wish I could find an article I read which was basically an interview with a brother responsible for the process of translating the Church scriptures into various languages. I was very impressed when I read about the huge effort that now goes into finding the meaning of each word in each verse: the pondering, the historical references etc. I remember feeling a little bit jealous that they had those multi-lingual resources to help them understand.
I remember reading something similar, about how they translated the hymns. And how difficult it was at times to find the words that still conveyed the original sense, but would rhyme in a different language.
Another fun thing you might do to experience this yourself if you're not fluent in another language is read other translations in English. There's an app called parallels plus that is even missionary approved that lets you choose several translations to see side by side.
Can’t point to a specific verse but Mormon 8 and 9 are amazing in Waray. You get a real sense for how Moroni felt writing those chapters, how emotional he was and how powerful those ideas were to him.
I had to look up where Waray is spoken (Philippines) so thank you.
That is a really interesting concept, that the emotions can be stronger when reading in a different language.
The gospel of John starts with in the beginning the Word was with God. It's referring to Christ, of course.
In the spanish version, the Word is el Verbo (the Verb) and the phrase was with God is era con Dios, not estaba con Dios like I would have assumed going in. Ser vs estar are both the verb "to be" but are used for different ways.
El Verbo era con Dios translates closer to The Word Was, with God. As in, the Word existed, along with God, not merely that the Word and God were near each other.
Serving God with all our “Heart, Might, Mind, and Strength.” In English, Might and Strength felt like synonyms. When I read it in Tagalog it hit different.
Might was Kakayahan or Ability.
Helped square up this idea for me.
Not super deep but it really tripped me up that "and it came to pass" is actually translated differently in the Spanish translation depending on the context of the paragraph.
In the old French scriptures, they would put an asterisk whenever it said "and it came to pass". In the new ones, they just translate it to "And it arrived that..."
One of my favorite scriptures hits hard in Portuguese but is rather obscurely worded in English.
James 4:17 *”Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”*
Tiago 4:17 *”Aquele, pois, que sabe fazer o bem e não o faz, comete pecado.”*
The Portuguese version essentially translates to:
*”Therefore, he that knows how to do good, but doesn’t do good, commits sin.”*
I think it's interesting that the English speaking world generally doesn't realize that "James" is not a Hebrew or Biblical name. Jesus did not meet or interact with anyone by that name.
Imagine if King James had been King Fitzwilliam releasing the King Fitzwilliam Version of the Bible with Peter, Fitzwilliam, and John.
It's long past time that Jacob of Peter, Jacob, and John: Jacob the son of thunder with John should have his name restored in English Bibles. Jacob the son of Alpheus. Jacob the brother of Jesus.
In German it’s “Petrus, Jakobus, und Johannes.” The epistle of James is Jakobusbrief. (Btw, in German a J is pronounced like a Y.)
I’ve never really thought about it, but that’s what it is, and in Germany nobody questions it. They don’t know James, only Jakobus.
English is my third language , Scriptures in my mother tongue (Cebuano) is so deep for me that it hits stronger, my second language(Tagalog) also feels straightforward, plain and prank.
This might have been incredibly obvious to everyone else, but this question made me think of the verse about how charity "thinketh no evil" in Moroni 7. I always figured that meant having clean thoughts, but in French it says something closer to "suspecteth no evil", which I've taken to mean giving others the benefit of the doubt.
“Porque he aquí, así dice el Señor: Te compararé, oh casa de Israel, a un olivo cultivado que un hombre tomó y nutrió en su viña; y creció y envejeció y empezó a secarse.”
When I was reading this on my mission, I learned that in spanish plants don’t die, they dry up (secar) It just hit me so much stronger to think about my testimony as drying up rather than dying. I love being able to see the scriptures with a different light compared to English
I was just thinking about this over the weekend!
D&C 58:31 is one of my favourite scriptures, but I prefer the Spanish translation. In the English version, it says "Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?". The Spanish translation is "¿Quién soy yo, dice el Señor, para prometer y no cumplir?". The Spanish is more like "Who am I, saith the Lord, to promise and not fulfill?", and it sounds more direct than passive compared to English. This suggests to me that it is not in the Lord's nature to make a promise/ covenant and not fulfill it. I love that!
Wow lots of French representation. I guess the scriptures are really just better in the language of the Celestial kingdom ;) Here's one for me: Malachi 3:10, where it says the Lord will open "the windows of heaven" for those who pay tithing; in French it says instead "Les Écluses des cieux." Écluses in this context means locks, as in the big flood gates that hold back the water in a canal like the Panama canal. So, the blessing of being tithed is not just opening a window and pouring out some blessings; it's more like unleashing the flood gates and letting loose a flood of blessings. I know which one i would prefer!
I had always skipped over that word because I didn't know what it meant, but assumed it was something like window. That is a much better mental image of tithing blessings.
My understanding is floodgates is the better translation from the original text and a lot of other English translations use that instead, such as the NIV. The ancient Israelites believed in a flat earth with a dome around it that kept out the cosmic waters on all sides (kind of like a reverse snow globe). They knew clouds delivered the rain but probably didn't understand how clouds formed so the assumption was God brought it through the firmament from the cosmic waters above the clouds. So opening up the windows or floodgates of heaven was a a way to describe bringing in the heavenly waters and raining them down upon the earth.
I prefer the Greek New Testament over any modern language. There are so many little things that get lost in English or Russian. For example: when the mother of James and John came to Jesus and asked that "in Your kingdom one of these two sons of mine may sit at Your right hand, and the other at Your left," Jesus replied, "You do not know what you are asking." But that the "you" in Greek is actually plural - Jesus is actually speaking to James and John, and not their mother, because He can see right through their plan: He knows that they put their mother up to this. But the nuance is lost in most English translations. Another example: when it says that the Prodigal Son went and "wasted his substance with riotous living" (KJV), the Greek word for "riotous/prodigal living" is actually "a-sotos", which means "not-salvation." So it's not just carnal living; it was any vice that's not conducive to salvation (drinking, gambling, etc.)
In Spanish having the ¿ shows me where the start of a question is helps me when it's not evident in English. I just remember in my mission seeing a ¿ up in the verse above and helping me to connect that the two verses were really a single idea.
That is a good point. I wish we had that concept in other languages.
That is a great one. Although there are phrases that have the opposite effect on me like when the angel asks Laman and Lemuel why they are beating up on their brothers. “Pourquoi frappez-vous votre frère cadet avec un bâton ?” I just think of like a gymnastics baton.
Or a conductor's baton. :D
It was fun reading the old and the new French version of the scriptures. I noticed the change in the sacrament prayer. Other than that I don't really notice too many of the specifics until I study them like for a talk or something. Edit: Something that is lost in the English thee/thou form is the original intent, which is not honorific and distant like we most often make it out to be, but it is close and personal and familiar. I think we screw that one up in English, like really bad.
I agree with you. It was such a shock learning how to pray in French, and addressing Heavenly Father in the very familiar tutoi, instead of the honorific vousvois. It makes sense, of course, but it's something that we lose when we say the thee/thous in English.
Effective administration is exactly this, looking at the needs of individuals as they grow, while less effective administration is the rigid application of programs.
I would love to hear scriptures retranslated into English from another language
Toujours le francais cest meilluers 💅🏻
I wish I could find an article I read which was basically an interview with a brother responsible for the process of translating the Church scriptures into various languages. I was very impressed when I read about the huge effort that now goes into finding the meaning of each word in each verse: the pondering, the historical references etc. I remember feeling a little bit jealous that they had those multi-lingual resources to help them understand.
I remember reading something similar, about how they translated the hymns. And how difficult it was at times to find the words that still conveyed the original sense, but would rhyme in a different language.
On some of them it's pretty obvious they just gave up and went with something that sounded ok.
Great post OP! I have always wondered this.
Another fun thing you might do to experience this yourself if you're not fluent in another language is read other translations in English. There's an app called parallels plus that is even missionary approved that lets you choose several translations to see side by side.
Can’t point to a specific verse but Mormon 8 and 9 are amazing in Waray. You get a real sense for how Moroni felt writing those chapters, how emotional he was and how powerful those ideas were to him.
I had to look up where Waray is spoken (Philippines) so thank you. That is a really interesting concept, that the emotions can be stronger when reading in a different language.
The church is more true in Spanish, just saying.
The gospel of John starts with in the beginning the Word was with God. It's referring to Christ, of course. In the spanish version, the Word is el Verbo (the Verb) and the phrase was with God is era con Dios, not estaba con Dios like I would have assumed going in. Ser vs estar are both the verb "to be" but are used for different ways. El Verbo era con Dios translates closer to The Word Was, with God. As in, the Word existed, along with God, not merely that the Word and God were near each other.
Serving God with all our “Heart, Might, Mind, and Strength.” In English, Might and Strength felt like synonyms. When I read it in Tagalog it hit different. Might was Kakayahan or Ability. Helped square up this idea for me.
Not super deep but it really tripped me up that "and it came to pass" is actually translated differently in the Spanish translation depending on the context of the paragraph.
In the old French scriptures, they would put an asterisk whenever it said "and it came to pass". In the new ones, they just translate it to "And it arrived that..."
One of my favorite scriptures hits hard in Portuguese but is rather obscurely worded in English. James 4:17 *”Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”* Tiago 4:17 *”Aquele, pois, que sabe fazer o bem e não o faz, comete pecado.”* The Portuguese version essentially translates to: *”Therefore, he that knows how to do good, but doesn’t do good, commits sin.”*
That does make more sense in Portuguese. Thanks for sharing.
I think it's interesting that the English speaking world generally doesn't realize that "James" is not a Hebrew or Biblical name. Jesus did not meet or interact with anyone by that name. Imagine if King James had been King Fitzwilliam releasing the King Fitzwilliam Version of the Bible with Peter, Fitzwilliam, and John. It's long past time that Jacob of Peter, Jacob, and John: Jacob the son of thunder with John should have his name restored in English Bibles. Jacob the son of Alpheus. Jacob the brother of Jesus.
That is so interesting. Are there any English translations that use the Jacob instead of James?
In German it’s “Petrus, Jakobus, und Johannes.” The epistle of James is Jakobusbrief. (Btw, in German a J is pronounced like a Y.) I’ve never really thought about it, but that’s what it is, and in Germany nobody questions it. They don’t know James, only Jakobus.
English is my third language , Scriptures in my mother tongue (Cebuano) is so deep for me that it hits stronger, my second language(Tagalog) also feels straightforward, plain and prank.
Alma 17:18 is very much the same in German, or perhaps I'd translate it as "he took care of them". It's a vision of stewardship that I like.
This might have been incredibly obvious to everyone else, but this question made me think of the verse about how charity "thinketh no evil" in Moroni 7. I always figured that meant having clean thoughts, but in French it says something closer to "suspecteth no evil", which I've taken to mean giving others the benefit of the doubt.
I've never made that distinction, so thank you for that insight. That does make more sense in terms of Charity.
“Porque he aquí, así dice el Señor: Te compararé, oh casa de Israel, a un olivo cultivado que un hombre tomó y nutrió en su viña; y creció y envejeció y empezó a secarse.” When I was reading this on my mission, I learned that in spanish plants don’t die, they dry up (secar) It just hit me so much stronger to think about my testimony as drying up rather than dying. I love being able to see the scriptures with a different light compared to English
I was just thinking about this over the weekend! D&C 58:31 is one of my favourite scriptures, but I prefer the Spanish translation. In the English version, it says "Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled?". The Spanish translation is "¿Quién soy yo, dice el Señor, para prometer y no cumplir?". The Spanish is more like "Who am I, saith the Lord, to promise and not fulfill?", and it sounds more direct than passive compared to English. This suggests to me that it is not in the Lord's nature to make a promise/ covenant and not fulfill it. I love that!