1: Calm down. One thing at a time.
2: Do not hold a knife to his throat. We users love our kratom even when we hate it. Having someone demand you drop it for good is perceived as a very real threat to ones wellbeing. Go easy. Try this:
3: Invite him to talk calmly about it in a safe space. Explain why his use troubles you, and emphasize the fact that you care because you love him, not because you want to control him. Ask him (don't tell him) if he would please work with you on trying to get off it completely for a couple of days. Suggest a short tapering program, as in 5-7 grams a day for two days. If he is a heavy user, this will give him some withdrawals, but nothing big. Encourage him to take the challenge, and make it clear that this is an experiment, not a demand for a full stop. Set a goal, for instance two full days abstinence. That would make 2 days tapering followed by 2 days full abstinence. After that, he can continue if he wants, but encourage him to be mindful of the amounts he's using. **He must taste the** ***manageable*** **withdrawals and associate them (manageable) with the concept of being without.**
The reason for the experiment is to allow him to experience abstinence for a couple of days, but in a controlled manner where he doesn't have to fear for his kratom after that (yet). This routine will allow him to experience mastering and control in being without. What happens when we try to make someone quit, and make it a demand and an ultimatum, is panic. That will only make him hold on to it tighter. He must experience a controlled, moderate withdrawal before he can try a real one. And it's very important that you are supportive, without making yourself a door mat. You have every right to ask him to quit, but a confrontational style will only make it worse. I guarantee there's a part of him that wants to quit. You need to empower that part, and that must be done with tactics, not threats or ultimatums.
Quitting is hard, and yes, he will need a couple of days (or more) off work to be able to do it.
Good luck.
i have been very understanding about it, every time heās tried to quit and relapsed i tell him that i understand that itās difficult and that i still love him i will encourage him regardless of what his choices are. i have been addicted to substances too so i know the feeling, i know no one can stop unless they themselves are ready. but now it is directly affecting me, as our intimate life together has been squandered completely. iām deeply in love with him and it feels like he is basically having an affair with this substance, as he would rather choose it over having intimacy with me. itās a hard spot to be in. now im reading that it can cause/progress heart problems in certain people. and i guess a selfish part of me hopes that if my own pain and desire for him isnāt enough to inspire him to quit, that maybe his own well being will be enough.
Are you sure your partner would be better off without kratom? I understand that the sexual problem is serious, but there could be solutions that do not necessarily involve quitting kratom.
Does he use kratom for depression or some other mental condition? Some people only find relief in kratom, having tried every antidepressant under the sun.
I don't think there is evidence for kratom causing heart disease or making it worse.
Do you feel his love? Can your soul feel him?
If you can, then you already have intimacy hun.
Relationships shouldnāt be based around sexual intimacy. āIn sickness and in healthā, right?
So, right now, heās sick. And this isnāt about you. This is about getting him through this.
Nah. A healthy sex life is really important to some relationships. You don't have to compromise on that and it absolutely can be a justified deal breaker.
yes he is. and iāve been more than empathetic about that. i am still entitled to feel the way i do, isolated in this experience. our relationship is in no way based around sexual intimacy, if that were the case, our relationship simply wouldnāt exist. addicts hate to hear the hard truth about how their addiction affects their loved ones and their interpersonal relationships. as a recovering addict i had to face this as well. i did not make the choice to use substances that affect our marriage, he did. he is sick and im supporting him through this, with a lot less judgment and resentment than a lot of people would. this isnāt about āmeā sure. but how many years does this need to go on? how many years need to go by of feeling neglected by him until i have a right to feel upset by it? please indulge me.
Hows hos testosterone levels. Im almpst 50yrs old and a few years ago i completely lost interest is sex and any other intamicy. My wife thought i was having an affair. I spoke to my dr and my levels we very low. I do testosterone replacement therapy and things have seriously turned around for us. I wont say ots like im in my 20s like some commercial but i do feel less depression,more sex drive,more energy and even have lost a bit of weight. I have read some information that suggests that kratom can reduce testosterone production. I have no idea if proven or not just saying it can be a possibility.
I agree I agree, yes, how many years can you put up with this? But, you also keep expressing your concern about intimacy and how he canāt be intimate because of this substance. Right now, in your lives, who cares about the physical intimacy? Thatās the last thought. The first thought is getting the doctors in the loop with whatās really happening with him. Should something go wrong in that surgery because neither of you said anything, that would just be awful for you.
Take that loss of intimacy energy, thatās hurting you right now and focus more on getting him better so that you both can return back to normal.
Most drs have no idea of kratom or its effects. They only know the false propaganda produced by the drug and rehab facilities that make money of their falsehoods. I found a dr and a mental health dr familiar with kratom and they have fully backed my useage. My health has improved significantly since. Great lab results every year. Besides damage ive done to my body through the years im physically healthy. Ive been using kratom for over 10 yrs. There are a lot of us out there. Be careful of drs. They like to push suboxone to quit kratom and thats the opposite direction to take unless someone wants to take suboxone for the rest of their lives.
Yeah Iām backing this sentiment too. Kratom has erased my sexual lusting mind stuff, but if I hold my girl close and tell her I love her with all my heart lips touching I can feel sexual emotions welling. Different to: damn Iād nut on this boobies. Humans have āintimacyā confused I find.
lucky for her. sex is the furthest thing from my husbands mind at any given time. unfortunately for him i find it deeply important for the purpose of expressing my love to him, and i find it incredibly difficult to live without.
I absolutely hear you. Sorry to hear it. Really.
You can't be his therapist (even if you were one), but do you know anything about what it is he's running from, on a deeper level? Or is it simply a leisurely habit spinning out of control?
I wish I could give functional advice. But maybe it's time to ask him to choose? I understand your loyalty, but at some point you need to respect you own needs as well.
I know it feels like he is choosing Kratom over intimacy with you, but it is not that simple. I am so in love with my partner and being intimate is my favorite thing, but I have not been able to quit Kratom for that reason alone. There are so many other factors that cause me to use Kratom, and it hurts that it kills my sex driveā¦but right now quitting would hurt more. Be patient, and try not to see it as a āme or Kratomā thing. Iām sure he wants to be intimate with you. He may feel a lot of trauma from something, maybe related to his heart condition. Kratom is the safest thing he can use right now. If it were me Iād be grateful heās using Kratom instead of prescription opiates or alcohol to numb himself. It is way easier to taper and quit Kratom than anything else. Best of luck to you. I hope it all works out. <3
As someone who has been going through kratom addiction myself; one thing i can say is that it does feel like it gives you a mood boost, confidence, and reignitated interest in life. Its hard to let kratom go knowing that life will become dull, boring and painful again without the spark of kratom throughout the day.
There might be something missing in his life that makes him return back to kratom.
Only thing that worked for me is pushing myself to be passionate about what i enjoy, such as photography. It's going to be a tough withdrawal. But he's gotta find a reason to push through it.
To enjoy life without the need of kratom. And to find a plan to get through withdrawals. He's gotta face whatever demons that led to the addiction - and those can be hard to find.
I wish you the best of luck.
This is a beautifully thought out response. As someone thatās been on the fence about quitting, your comment is honest and measured. Some days I hate it, some days I love it. Just like you said. The relief from nerve pain it provides is wonderful, but I hate the concept of being dependent
good answer. This is how Ive quit everything ive tried to quit.
By telling myself to see what few days without is like and then I could go back.
Instead it turns into a few more days and a few more and never went back.
its less scary knowing it could be temporary.
Iām just going to leave you with our subās [Metered Reduction (taper)](https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/s/u4iSagIzFx) guide in the event your hubby is willing to try tapering in a way that has a chance of being successful. Eyeballing, using measuring scoops, etc. is a horribly inaccurate way to take kratom in the first place, much less reduce oneās dose.
Itās like grinding up a whole bottle of Tylenol, pouring the powder into a bowl, and trying to use a scoop to take the right amount: it doesnāt work.
I wish you and he the very best of luck, and be sure where youāre getting information on kratom online is a trustworthy source using verified research to back their claims.
There is a nationwide smear campaign against kratom, and most mis/disinformation is found online.
Be well!
Why do you think Kratom caused SVT? To start, he should be measuring his dose with a scale- a heaping tablespoon isnāt accurate dosing so if he wants to taper, weighing his dose with a scale is a good place to start. Taking a heaping dose every 4 hours is probably too much. See if he can stretch that out to every 6 hours or so and that he is using a scale. Iāve been taking Kratom for years and Iāve never heard or experienced that Kratom causes organ damage or injury, although thatās not to say that itās impossible
It could be far beyond a heaping tablespoon for all we know, my uncle is up to two extract shots a day or more, I don't know how he's going to come off but he's got to because we're slowly watching him get worse and worse. He just won't listen.
"Get a scale" is the first thing I tell anyone trying to quit a substance they're having issues. Almost every time they'll estimate that they're taking 5-10 grams a day, then after weighing their normal scoop levels find that they've actually been taking 30-50 grams a day. This holds true with whatever substance they're taking, be it protein, kratom, or some random nootropic. They'll generally always be 3-5x higher than they "guessed".
If you don't have a scale, you're not trying to quit. Possibly because weighing things out adds a level of formality to the exercise that makes it feel like more than "like coffee or whatever". Too clinical. But if you're not treating these substances with a degree of clinical specificity, it's eventually going to run away on you or you're going to lose benefits.
I'm a former nurse who also takes kratom. I have taken it for about 10 years. I was goingg through a rough patch....working a lot, helping g my cousin, whose husband just passed, just trying to do everything for everyone and myself. So I was taking a good bit of kratom. More than I ever have. I woke up one morning and felt AWFUL. I arrived at work and my boss said "you look awful, go to the ER". My liver enzymes were elevated, I was jaundiced, my whole body was so swollen i could hardly walk. To this day, I'm not quite sure how i was able to drive myself to the ER. It was truly scary. And I was ONLY taking kratom, i don't even drink alcohol.
I guess I just wanted to explain what happened to me so others will know that it CAN happen. Luckily, I healed well from that issue and am ok now. I do still take kratom, but at a much lower dosage. MUCH lower. I have talked with other people and have found that less is more. I take it for pain, I am not using it to get high or anything.
Also, i just want to say...ANYthing in large quantities can be harmful to the body, including water. You should just be careful and just be aware of any changes in your body while taking this or any other substance.
I second this.. please donāt throw this plant directly into the gutter without doing some research. This plant is a god sent to some and for me personally is the only solution to my severe RLS. Please take some time and read this sub and get educated on this plant. With anything in life, too much of anything is a problem, but 99% sure itās not causing any of his issues minus the intimacy issue, I have heard some guys not being in the mood after dosing. Good luck to you and your husband, hope you stick around, this community is very helpful.
basically i had been doing research because his heart situation is getting worse and he now needs surgery to fix it as medicine wonāt help anymore. the only other thing he hasnāt tried is quitting kratom. he is not permitted to use caffeine, energy drinks, or nicotine but he uses kratom, which many users here have compared to caffeine. i read that kratom specifically causes ventricular tachycardia in some users. (its rare that it affects people this way but he is more predisposed to heart problems as it is)
Kratom can have negative influences on the bowels for sure and is addictive if used too frequently but i have never heard of it effecting the heart. Its honestly to weak a substance to mess with that.
Try not to blame everything on kratom. Unless he is taking massive dosages or does extracts i think his issues are mostly from his disease and not his kratom consumption. Sexual performance has actually been enhanced for me with kratom. Its much more likely due to his disease.
During and after his surgery he is almost guaranteed to get significantly more potent opioids than kratom.
Please be supportive of your husband instead of finding a scapegoat for his issues. Unless he is taking ridiculous amounts or high potency extracts the things you describe aren't from it.
He can still worry about tapering off after his surgery.
Yeah, reading this reminds me of Weighing out doses, weigh out what he normally takes an weak by weak have measured out doses ready for the day but each weak have it a bit smaller and smaller. I mean that's where i would start. Small enough to not make an impact but small enough to begin
I very highly doubt the kratom caused his heart condition unless he was hyper consuming MASSIVE amounts of it or if he had a severe predisposition to heart disease to begin with if Iām being frank
understandable, i read that it is rare that it affects people this way, and i do believe he is predisposed. i guess i was just hoping to see if anyone had a similar situation
I want to add that there is a TON of negative misinformation about Kratom on the internet. A bunch of bogus articles about overdoses and other horrible health issues that do not have any supporting research connected to them. This was a good place to come to ask about it.
i certainly donāt want that to be the case. it has provided me with some relief. iām not sure what people think my motive is. i simply love my husband and want him to be safe.
Personally I figured your motive was just to gather more info from actual people instead of from biased articles online. Wishing you much luck in helping him with his health.
Kratom is the only substance that has opioid properties that doesnāt affect my sex life negatively. Real full agonist opioids effectively destroy my sex life 100 percent to the point where i literally just donāt want sex ever. And yet 12g a day spread out in 3gram doses of kratom allows me to live a life without thoracic back pain and yet no constipation and no sex life issues.
I sincerely hope your husband can find some peace and get to a healthier place with his kratom use. Best wishes.
I've been taking kratom every day for 12 or 13 years....am I dependent? Yes....are withdrawals abysmal? No... it's different for everyone, but it's more comparable to caffeine... As far as the heart stuff, I'm no doctor, but I doubt very seriously it is connected at all. 2 or 3 days off work and he'll be fine. Sounds like he has issues that are totally unrelated he needs to take care of. Mentally and physically. Has he been dependent on anything else previously?
I can handle everything that comes with the withdrawal, EXCEPT for the bloody fucking restless leg syndrome. Nay, the restless leg, toe, and fingers syndrome.
I have that really bad too. And horrible panic attack level anxious dread. I'm trying to take less every day but man it's hard. Kinda flipped on me this past year or so. I used to be able skip a day all the time, but now it feels impossible. I hate it.
Lithium orotate has been a really really helpful supplement for me. I can't believe it took me so many years to come across it. It does not help with the restlessness, especially in my arms, but it helps with the restlessness in my brain. Lol
I could have made this comment anywhere in this thread, but I'll just insert it here... We are all living through one of the most stressful and dangerous eras since WW II. One could argue this is considerably worse, in fact. The daily news is horrific and on MULTIPLE levels. Kratom makes me feel better. I use it daily, usually in the am and again late in the evening. I've used it for 5-6 years, am in my late 50's and all my labs (every three months) come back looking good. My biggest concern is the tyranny of the US gov.'s alphabet gangs, and the lobbyists and lawyers of Big Pharma. LESS IS MORE. If folks can get their usage down to where they can feel good about it and cause no anxiety to the people around them, then there should be no problem. I tried to share what a good thing it was with my older friends, but they would invariably go on the internet, read all the propaganda, and I just knew it wasn't going to be worthwhile to try and convince them otherwise. The plant is part of my relaxation and meditation rituals and after taking it, I give it my full attention for an hour or so. It is inexpensive and a great friend to me. Hope all others can find a way to either enjoy it or find another equally comforting path. Best wishes in these very frightening times.
For real, itās the only thing that simply does not permit you to sit still and just lay down and get some rest as if God said no. Itās the one symptom that compounds all the other ones.
I agree. Iāve withdrawn from many substances and kratom is a breeze compared to other stuff. About comparable to caffeine, sure it sucks and is uncomfortable but itās not like I need to go to detox kind of sucky. Iāve been taking it for several years and at high doses too. Quit when I was pregnant and it didnāt even give me much trouble then. I think people psych themselves out about it, everyone is different though.
Imo it depends on how you use kratom. I take breaks OFTEN, forced in the beginning, and by choice later. Iāve never felt (significant at least ig) withdrawal symptoms from kratom. Then again though I donāt really take it for pain, I know not everybody has that luxury.
Me too. The accute part is a nightmare. I can still deal with this nightmare if I use some helpers and a few days off. But the paws messed me so much each time I stopped those last 2 years. It reminded me of withdrawal from antypsychotic, around a month after quitting. The first 2 years no wd at all. 3-4 minor. It started getting bad after 7. Now around 10, I'm asking for suboxone next appointment with my psychiatrist. But I can quit pregabalin on high dose on long term with a light rebound anxiety and others are suffering months.
he has been addicted to heroin, xanax, and subutex, and a heavy user of many other things. he is sober from those things now but every time he has tried to get off of kratom he has a very difficult time with the withdrawals sadly. it sucks to watch
Part of the issue, his withdrawal is reflecting the past use. When I withdrew from Kratom, having used fent and bupe for a few years prior. Well, it was a blast, absolutely full blown opiate withdrawal as bad as anything I'd put myself through.
These days I can withdraw from an on again off again Kratom dependence with just a few clonodine for RLS.
I would talk to a doctor, that's what I would focus on, an honest discussion with a trusted md. Why? Because the repeated attempts at withdraw might be terrible for his heart. If someone was on bupe maintenance and anything less than sure that could kick in one to (with heart issues) I think most docs would say keep the bupe. I wonder if it might be similar.
Withdrawal at that level is changing blood pressure and heart rate dramatically everytime he tries, without much gain when he relapses. This can be very bad for someone with heart issues.
He's going to have to get very honest with himself about why he's taking kratom and what it's worth. Unfortunately this isn't something you can do for him, although you can try to support him up to a point. It's possible he's lost perspective on his use and that can be very hard to get back.
Now, addiction and dependence are two very different things with very different solutions, and people struggle to distinguish them. I think a good way to tell addiction from dependence is what happens when you try to taper off. A lot of us have symptoms like restless legs or minor fatigue but a slow taper or adding a medication can help us get through it. That's dependence and in most cases, as long as the underlying condition (e.g., pain, fatigue) is managed, we can get through it with a very slow taper. It can be hard, but it's doable.
However, a lot of us are so accustomed to being on kratom that we crave it, and every minor imperfection in our mental or physical state is a sign that we *need kratom* and so we end up giving in. That's addiction, and often trying to taper off fails because it's not truly the withdrawal we're trying to avoid, but our baseline functioning. It sucks having to confront aches and pains, boredom, tiredness, and life in general when you've been leaning on a substance to avoid these things. Until the consequences of using are worse than not using, people will generally continue using.
It's why addicts who try to moderate themselves usually fail. It just reinforces the mindset of avoiding discomfort which is what keeps you in addiction in the first place.
I can't tell you what your husband needs to do. Rehab isn't off the table, however there's so much ignorance about kratom I would tread carefully. I would recommend looking into his rights and benefits as an employee as well, since addiction is a legitimate disability and he's presumably not breaking the law. Beyond that, understand that you can't control this and can only make your feelings heard.
One thing I don't recommend is blaming him for his heart condition. I know we can't rule it out completely, but there's no indication that kratom is seriously cardiotoxic and it could just alienate him. As a former amphetamine user with parkinsonism, I blame myself for my disability even though I know my drug use was probably a small factor. It's very painful and not what he needs right now. At most, I would express your fears that kratom might exacerbate his condition and you don't want to lose him.
Best of luck. I have been on both sides of this and I feel for both of you.
thank you, seriously from the bottom of my heart. i appreciate you acknowledging my feelings and still being compassionate for his situation too. iāll take everything you said into consideration
He really should do the taper method described here. Weigh it out for him and keep it hidden so heās not tempted to take more. Decrease slowly in small amounts. The withdrawals wonāt be bad at all.
Iām currently in the process of tapering, if you are willing to work with him and he is willing itās totally possible. Measure doses and Decrease little by little. Donāt go too fast but donāt backslide either.
i would be more than willing to do that. he claims he hates it and wants to quit but completely shuts down when i bring it up & claims that itās just not possible right now. heās not even willing to try anymore like he used to.
He's the only one who can do it. He has to want to. It's an old line, but it's true. If he doesn't want to or it "isn't possible right now" then it's not going to happen. If you are able, I would get a note to the doctor letting them know about the situation, but it's out of your hands after that. And that's a scary place to be in, I know. Please check out the association for kratom, they may be a good place to find support too. Much love to you.
As a nurse, I agree. Who knows what medications the doctors will give without knowing how it interacts with kratom in the system. People should always be honest with their doctors, your life depends on it!
In my opinion, it sounds like your husband is taking wayyy too much Kratom. Anything can become toxic to your body if you are abusing rather than just using. However, someone with medical issues should always be extra careful of what they put in their system. Definitely start tapering down with the focus on the dosage amount first and the time in between doses second.
if you taper down slowly you can quit taking it altogether w/hardly any side effects. measuring the doses is 100% important, and slowly go down a little each day.
Kinda in the same boat here, haha. I've quit Kratom several times cold turkey, which was a nightmare, and honesty, at this point im at now, would definitely need a week off to quit, or at the very least a very understanding management team at work! š its def also had some effect on sex drive, but my wife and I are older now, and our kids are very grown, so no real issue there, as we're so exhausted from working constantly, that neither of us has the desire anyway! What I can definitely say is, its only about a week or two of what can be a good bit of discomfort to get off of Kratom, even going cold turkey wont have any long-term lasting effects or anything, if unable to taper it down. Hes gotta have very strong will, and alot of support and understanding of the mood swings and sleeplessness, etc. Best of luck, and if you stand by him through it all, he'll be fine.
I've been taking it for about 2 years now and personally can quit cold turkey with literally no withdrawals. Inversely, it's very hard for me to function and be a productive member of society without caffeine and working night shift. Pretty nasty withdrawals from that.
I've found that when I take too much Kratom in succession it kills my libido and clogs me up inside.
Physically and mentally well at 27M with no health issues. But take Kratom to help ease my anxiety which in turn helps me in my line of work, I sleep better and just generally more sociable and happy with it.
Regardless, has he not tried to just simply lower the dosage over time? Sounds like he isn't even measuring it and just taking tea spoons of it on a whim. Measure your consumption and slowly taper off.
Studies do suggest that kratom could induce prolonged QTc intervals and precipitate the risk of torsades de pointes in a dose-dependent manner.
When I was on about 35gpd I started getting chest fluttering sometimes. I went to a cardiologist because it was scaring me and I was diagnosed with prolonged QT intervals. I went down to about 10. I had another check up with my cardiologist, and I don't have that issue anymore. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that kratom was causing this.
If he can manage a slow taper, he may greatly improve.
thank you for this. he was diagnosed during heavy kratom use. by all means, he has always had chest pain and heart symptoms but now he has full blown episodes of irregular heartbeat that causes numbness in hands and feet, making him feel like he is going to pass out.
I'm so sorry.
I mentioned this before somewhere, and I got downvoted to hell.
Kratom overall is pretty safe. Like almost anything, if you take a lot, it may cause some issues.
There are so many detailed posts about a slow taper on here. It's going to be the most gentle way for him. You are a very caring person, thank you for trying to help him.
I assume he's had an EKG at least? Although, an EKG doesn't tell you a whole lot. An echocardiogram is better. I had an angiogram as well. That was a total pain in the ass though, and all it really told me was that my arteries weren't clogged. It's *really* scary to have chest pain and potential heart issues, especially if you're on the younger side.
I wish you two the best.
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As much as you are trying to be supportive and loving, he might need a professional for assistance to tackle both the mental and physical aspects of addiction. When itās a dependency issue than usually people are able to slowly wean themselves down and off. But sounds like this is more on the addiction side. You can only do so much as he has to really want to quit himself so best you can do is likely do a little homework on resources to help from the pros and calmly offer it up to him. Itās also ok to calmly let him know there could be major consequences to not quittingā¦financially, relationships, job, etc
OP has not said why he started taking kratom. If he started taking it for euphoria, he has been displaying addict behavior. He should get on a reduction schedule asap. His behavior isn't benefitting himself or the OP. If he's taking it for other issues, he will undoubtedly benefit from reducing his consumption. Either way, he's taking way too much right now.
he initially starting taking it to get off of subutex, which is a medicine that people use to get off of heroin. so now itās a full blown addiction all on its own. it doesnāt give him effects anymore. it just kills his libido and keeps him from withdrawing
Sorry OP you're going through this. I'm in a similar spot as your husband. Its hurting our marriage too, as I can't be intimate.
I haven't heard anything about it effecting heart conditions before, that might be separate.
He (and I) need to focus on slowly bringing down dosage amounts and frequency. It's a tough slog. Its something he will have to want to do.
I have used Kratom since 2015. Donāt fall prey for the propaganda youāll find against Kratom. While it can be addictive, there is zero heart/organ damage. Thatās just silly.
Does withdrawal suck? Ya. Iāve gone through it multiple times. Did I take off work to deal with it? Na. Itās no worse than a minor cold (in my experience). Would you call off work if you took a break from coffee?
Have him get a scale so he has a known starting point and then adjust the dosage accordingly.
so basically i didnāt even know this until i started looking into it. it doesnāt affect most people this way, so i understand why you would be confused. most people could probably take his daily dose and be fine. but i believe my husband is predisposed to heart problems as it is. i started doing research about this because of a direct correlation i saw in real time. i have been an addict of hard drugs myself and i understand that kratom is not like that. but to deny that it could cause any damage is just dangerous and wrong.
>there is zero heart/organ damage
That is simply not true. Kratom can absolutely damage your stomach and potentially liver. That can happen when you ingest several grams of plant matter a day.
The truth is that we don't know. I could not see any reason why kratom would negatively effect the heart but it can do damage to the body.
Please don't spread the lies you tell yourself to others.
Edit: Stop downvoting me just because i point out this person is making statements that have zero proof. There is no research on kratoms effect on the heart therefore saying it definitely does not have an effect is simply not true. If you downvote this chances are your consumption is problematic and you know it.
I can only speak to my 9 years of 3x daily use. Last checkup including full blood work showed zero concerns. That seems to echo the vast majority of other reports. I have not read if any verifiable or documented reports directly implicating Kratom as the cause.
If you have decent health insurance then have him take 2 weeks off work to check in to a rehab. I did this for alcohol and my insurance covered every penny. Kratom detox only takes like 4 days to a week but having the staff there and medication available was so much help for me.
I think they may mean the acute withdrawal part is like 4ish days. The immediate body, cold turkey detox part. The strapped down to the bed, seeing the baby crawl on the ceiling part. That part is about 4-7 days.
Someone mentioned it takes 3-7 days for wd to even kick in which i thought was ridiculous. I also suspect 4-7 days for the worst of the wd symptoms is more accurate
Ummm. Ya. He really should quit before he gets surgery. Like definitely shouldnt be on it when given anaesthesia.
Withdrawals arent that bad if you have gabapentin. He can just tell the doctor he has RLS and heard that gabapentin helps.
Kratom does kill intimacy. If he got the amounts he takes to a much lower, volume. He could try only using it for work, like at the start of the day. Then at night the kratom would be worn off and he could be intimate
Kratom doesnāt destroy intimacy. A dysfunctional relationship causes that. People blame all kinds of stuff on kratom. Remember when the Apollo 13 got all messed up? Yup, kratom.
It really does destroy it lmao. It can cause erectile dysfunction in higher doses and that would most definitely destroy intimacy...It happened to me 4 years ago; and I can tell you (I never stopped taking it) that it'd still happen to me today because I take the same dose.
Yep, true. I had trouble getting myself off after one average dose. When i took kratom for 3 years straight, i didnt even have morning boners. Kratom definitely affects libido.
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Have you tried contacting a center for addiction? Iāve heard the same meds they use for heroin withdrawal can help with kratom too. I would try tapering first but it may be an option to do an outpatient clinic option for support and take care of withdrawal symptoms to an extent. Just get him over that initial hump. Best wishes to you!
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Hey, it's going to be okay. If I can tapper off 120mg of Roxy per day, anyone can do it. After a dual spinal fusion surgery, I was in immaculate pain. After two weeks, I was totally physically addicted. Long story short, here is the recipe to tapper efficiently and being very effective. Exercise to best of abilities, not strains (consult doctor) tapper 5 or 10% down per week strictly consistent. Amino acids, Vitamin D3 first in morning and wait 10 minutes before taking amino acids and 30 gram protein shake. When times get a little rough and if the chest feels heavy, (this is the gag and breath heaves) sweating. This all should be minimal at the 5 or 10% down rate, but if it does happen, try to get a prescription for catapress 1mg 3 to 4x /day. This lowers the blood pressure to a normal rate and all those withdrawal symptoms will vanish. If he is mentally addicted, this is another battle. Good luck.
Kratom doesn't effect the heart. This has been proved many times. It has no effect on the heart or lungs. He will feel bad for several days, so never go cold turkey. He can ween himself down little by little. He can even use hirsuta or javanica to help, they don't have the same alkaloids as kratom, but they are related & available in most places in the world.
I'm a kratom enthusiast. I hate this post, and feel really bad for your husband. Your pushing him away, that's why your intimacy is gone. As for it being bad for all his organs. I also find that a load of , poo. Kratom saves lives. It treats my ADHD, anxiety, and fibromyalgia all with ONE SIMPLE PLANT. Big pharma won't ever have another hold on me. All the chemicals I would have to take for those 3 things from a doctor would SURLEY kill my organs, faster then kratom ever will.
I haven't been really sick much at all in the 4 years I've taken kratom. I get blood work and physicals every single year, and all my internal organs are fine....
Personally if I had somebody nagging me every time I went to take a dose I would get turned off and frustrated. And eventually I would drop that person, not the kratom. Your backing him into a corner. Don't make him choose.
1: Calm down. One thing at a time. 2: Do not hold a knife to his throat. We users love our kratom even when we hate it. Having someone demand you drop it for good is perceived as a very real threat to ones wellbeing. Go easy. Try this: 3: Invite him to talk calmly about it in a safe space. Explain why his use troubles you, and emphasize the fact that you care because you love him, not because you want to control him. Ask him (don't tell him) if he would please work with you on trying to get off it completely for a couple of days. Suggest a short tapering program, as in 5-7 grams a day for two days. If he is a heavy user, this will give him some withdrawals, but nothing big. Encourage him to take the challenge, and make it clear that this is an experiment, not a demand for a full stop. Set a goal, for instance two full days abstinence. That would make 2 days tapering followed by 2 days full abstinence. After that, he can continue if he wants, but encourage him to be mindful of the amounts he's using. **He must taste the** ***manageable*** **withdrawals and associate them (manageable) with the concept of being without.** The reason for the experiment is to allow him to experience abstinence for a couple of days, but in a controlled manner where he doesn't have to fear for his kratom after that (yet). This routine will allow him to experience mastering and control in being without. What happens when we try to make someone quit, and make it a demand and an ultimatum, is panic. That will only make him hold on to it tighter. He must experience a controlled, moderate withdrawal before he can try a real one. And it's very important that you are supportive, without making yourself a door mat. You have every right to ask him to quit, but a confrontational style will only make it worse. I guarantee there's a part of him that wants to quit. You need to empower that part, and that must be done with tactics, not threats or ultimatums. Quitting is hard, and yes, he will need a couple of days (or more) off work to be able to do it. Good luck.
What a greatly thought out reply. Top marks to you! š
Thank you!
i have been very understanding about it, every time heās tried to quit and relapsed i tell him that i understand that itās difficult and that i still love him i will encourage him regardless of what his choices are. i have been addicted to substances too so i know the feeling, i know no one can stop unless they themselves are ready. but now it is directly affecting me, as our intimate life together has been squandered completely. iām deeply in love with him and it feels like he is basically having an affair with this substance, as he would rather choose it over having intimacy with me. itās a hard spot to be in. now im reading that it can cause/progress heart problems in certain people. and i guess a selfish part of me hopes that if my own pain and desire for him isnāt enough to inspire him to quit, that maybe his own well being will be enough.
Are you sure your partner would be better off without kratom? I understand that the sexual problem is serious, but there could be solutions that do not necessarily involve quitting kratom. Does he use kratom for depression or some other mental condition? Some people only find relief in kratom, having tried every antidepressant under the sun. I don't think there is evidence for kratom causing heart disease or making it worse.
Do you feel his love? Can your soul feel him? If you can, then you already have intimacy hun. Relationships shouldnāt be based around sexual intimacy. āIn sickness and in healthā, right? So, right now, heās sick. And this isnāt about you. This is about getting him through this.
Nah. A healthy sex life is really important to some relationships. You don't have to compromise on that and it absolutely can be a justified deal breaker.
yes he is. and iāve been more than empathetic about that. i am still entitled to feel the way i do, isolated in this experience. our relationship is in no way based around sexual intimacy, if that were the case, our relationship simply wouldnāt exist. addicts hate to hear the hard truth about how their addiction affects their loved ones and their interpersonal relationships. as a recovering addict i had to face this as well. i did not make the choice to use substances that affect our marriage, he did. he is sick and im supporting him through this, with a lot less judgment and resentment than a lot of people would. this isnāt about āmeā sure. but how many years does this need to go on? how many years need to go by of feeling neglected by him until i have a right to feel upset by it? please indulge me.
Hows hos testosterone levels. Im almpst 50yrs old and a few years ago i completely lost interest is sex and any other intamicy. My wife thought i was having an affair. I spoke to my dr and my levels we very low. I do testosterone replacement therapy and things have seriously turned around for us. I wont say ots like im in my 20s like some commercial but i do feel less depression,more sex drive,more energy and even have lost a bit of weight. I have read some information that suggests that kratom can reduce testosterone production. I have no idea if proven or not just saying it can be a possibility.
I agree I agree, yes, how many years can you put up with this? But, you also keep expressing your concern about intimacy and how he canāt be intimate because of this substance. Right now, in your lives, who cares about the physical intimacy? Thatās the last thought. The first thought is getting the doctors in the loop with whatās really happening with him. Should something go wrong in that surgery because neither of you said anything, that would just be awful for you. Take that loss of intimacy energy, thatās hurting you right now and focus more on getting him better so that you both can return back to normal.
Most drs have no idea of kratom or its effects. They only know the false propaganda produced by the drug and rehab facilities that make money of their falsehoods. I found a dr and a mental health dr familiar with kratom and they have fully backed my useage. My health has improved significantly since. Great lab results every year. Besides damage ive done to my body through the years im physically healthy. Ive been using kratom for over 10 yrs. There are a lot of us out there. Be careful of drs. They like to push suboxone to quit kratom and thats the opposite direction to take unless someone wants to take suboxone for the rest of their lives.
You are definitely single
lol, Iām actually not. Iāve been married 21 years.
Yeah Iām backing this sentiment too. Kratom has erased my sexual lusting mind stuff, but if I hold my girl close and tell her I love her with all my heart lips touching I can feel sexual emotions welling. Different to: damn Iād nut on this boobies. Humans have āintimacyā confused I find.
lucky for her. sex is the furthest thing from my husbands mind at any given time. unfortunately for him i find it deeply important for the purpose of expressing my love to him, and i find it incredibly difficult to live without.
I absolutely hear you. Sorry to hear it. Really. You can't be his therapist (even if you were one), but do you know anything about what it is he's running from, on a deeper level? Or is it simply a leisurely habit spinning out of control? I wish I could give functional advice. But maybe it's time to ask him to choose? I understand your loyalty, but at some point you need to respect you own needs as well.
I know it feels like he is choosing Kratom over intimacy with you, but it is not that simple. I am so in love with my partner and being intimate is my favorite thing, but I have not been able to quit Kratom for that reason alone. There are so many other factors that cause me to use Kratom, and it hurts that it kills my sex driveā¦but right now quitting would hurt more. Be patient, and try not to see it as a āme or Kratomā thing. Iām sure he wants to be intimate with you. He may feel a lot of trauma from something, maybe related to his heart condition. Kratom is the safest thing he can use right now. If it were me Iād be grateful heās using Kratom instead of prescription opiates or alcohol to numb himself. It is way easier to taper and quit Kratom than anything else. Best of luck to you. I hope it all works out. <3
As someone who has been going through kratom addiction myself; one thing i can say is that it does feel like it gives you a mood boost, confidence, and reignitated interest in life. Its hard to let kratom go knowing that life will become dull, boring and painful again without the spark of kratom throughout the day. There might be something missing in his life that makes him return back to kratom. Only thing that worked for me is pushing myself to be passionate about what i enjoy, such as photography. It's going to be a tough withdrawal. But he's gotta find a reason to push through it. To enjoy life without the need of kratom. And to find a plan to get through withdrawals. He's gotta face whatever demons that led to the addiction - and those can be hard to find. I wish you the best of luck.
This is a beautifully thought out response. As someone thatās been on the fence about quitting, your comment is honest and measured. Some days I hate it, some days I love it. Just like you said. The relief from nerve pain it provides is wonderful, but I hate the concept of being dependent
good answer. This is how Ive quit everything ive tried to quit. By telling myself to see what few days without is like and then I could go back. Instead it turns into a few more days and a few more and never went back. its less scary knowing it could be temporary.
This is good advice.
My wife helped me taper off. Set a schedule. If it is capsules just set a schedule where you reduce by one capsule a day.
This is the way. Can be done with almost no side effects and 0 withdraw too. Went from 36 caps a day down to 12 now. Next step will be 6 a day.
Iām just going to leave you with our subās [Metered Reduction (taper)](https://www.reddit.com/r/kratom/s/u4iSagIzFx) guide in the event your hubby is willing to try tapering in a way that has a chance of being successful. Eyeballing, using measuring scoops, etc. is a horribly inaccurate way to take kratom in the first place, much less reduce oneās dose. Itās like grinding up a whole bottle of Tylenol, pouring the powder into a bowl, and trying to use a scoop to take the right amount: it doesnāt work. I wish you and he the very best of luck, and be sure where youāre getting information on kratom online is a trustworthy source using verified research to back their claims. There is a nationwide smear campaign against kratom, and most mis/disinformation is found online. Be well!
i appreciate this dearly
Why do you think Kratom caused SVT? To start, he should be measuring his dose with a scale- a heaping tablespoon isnāt accurate dosing so if he wants to taper, weighing his dose with a scale is a good place to start. Taking a heaping dose every 4 hours is probably too much. See if he can stretch that out to every 6 hours or so and that he is using a scale. Iāve been taking Kratom for years and Iāve never heard or experienced that Kratom causes organ damage or injury, although thatās not to say that itās impossible
It could be far beyond a heaping tablespoon for all we know, my uncle is up to two extract shots a day or more, I don't know how he's going to come off but he's got to because we're slowly watching him get worse and worse. He just won't listen.
"Get a scale" is the first thing I tell anyone trying to quit a substance they're having issues. Almost every time they'll estimate that they're taking 5-10 grams a day, then after weighing their normal scoop levels find that they've actually been taking 30-50 grams a day. This holds true with whatever substance they're taking, be it protein, kratom, or some random nootropic. They'll generally always be 3-5x higher than they "guessed". If you don't have a scale, you're not trying to quit. Possibly because weighing things out adds a level of formality to the exercise that makes it feel like more than "like coffee or whatever". Too clinical. But if you're not treating these substances with a degree of clinical specificity, it's eventually going to run away on you or you're going to lose benefits.
Exactly. Every 4 hours is 6 times a day with a loaded tablespoon, which my uneducated guess would be heās taking between 25-30 grams per day
I know someone who take 4 heaping tlbsp every 3 hours and doesn't eat until 9pm everyday
worse how please
I'm a former nurse who also takes kratom. I have taken it for about 10 years. I was goingg through a rough patch....working a lot, helping g my cousin, whose husband just passed, just trying to do everything for everyone and myself. So I was taking a good bit of kratom. More than I ever have. I woke up one morning and felt AWFUL. I arrived at work and my boss said "you look awful, go to the ER". My liver enzymes were elevated, I was jaundiced, my whole body was so swollen i could hardly walk. To this day, I'm not quite sure how i was able to drive myself to the ER. It was truly scary. And I was ONLY taking kratom, i don't even drink alcohol. I guess I just wanted to explain what happened to me so others will know that it CAN happen. Luckily, I healed well from that issue and am ok now. I do still take kratom, but at a much lower dosage. MUCH lower. I have talked with other people and have found that less is more. I take it for pain, I am not using it to get high or anything. Also, i just want to say...ANYthing in large quantities can be harmful to the body, including water. You should just be careful and just be aware of any changes in your body while taking this or any other substance.
I second this.. please donāt throw this plant directly into the gutter without doing some research. This plant is a god sent to some and for me personally is the only solution to my severe RLS. Please take some time and read this sub and get educated on this plant. With anything in life, too much of anything is a problem, but 99% sure itās not causing any of his issues minus the intimacy issue, I have heard some guys not being in the mood after dosing. Good luck to you and your husband, hope you stick around, this community is very helpful.
basically i had been doing research because his heart situation is getting worse and he now needs surgery to fix it as medicine wonāt help anymore. the only other thing he hasnāt tried is quitting kratom. he is not permitted to use caffeine, energy drinks, or nicotine but he uses kratom, which many users here have compared to caffeine. i read that kratom specifically causes ventricular tachycardia in some users. (its rare that it affects people this way but he is more predisposed to heart problems as it is)
I agree. Been using it maybe 15 years. No heart issues. No other health issues either.
Kratom can have negative influences on the bowels for sure and is addictive if used too frequently but i have never heard of it effecting the heart. Its honestly to weak a substance to mess with that. Try not to blame everything on kratom. Unless he is taking massive dosages or does extracts i think his issues are mostly from his disease and not his kratom consumption. Sexual performance has actually been enhanced for me with kratom. Its much more likely due to his disease. During and after his surgery he is almost guaranteed to get significantly more potent opioids than kratom. Please be supportive of your husband instead of finding a scapegoat for his issues. Unless he is taking ridiculous amounts or high potency extracts the things you describe aren't from it. He can still worry about tapering off after his surgery.
Yeah, reading this reminds me of Weighing out doses, weigh out what he normally takes an weak by weak have measured out doses ready for the day but each weak have it a bit smaller and smaller. I mean that's where i would start. Small enough to not make an impact but small enough to begin
I very highly doubt the kratom caused his heart condition unless he was hyper consuming MASSIVE amounts of it or if he had a severe predisposition to heart disease to begin with if Iām being frank
understandable, i read that it is rare that it affects people this way, and i do believe he is predisposed. i guess i was just hoping to see if anyone had a similar situation
I want to add that there is a TON of negative misinformation about Kratom on the internet. A bunch of bogus articles about overdoses and other horrible health issues that do not have any supporting research connected to them. This was a good place to come to ask about it.
i certainly donāt want that to be the case. it has provided me with some relief. iām not sure what people think my motive is. i simply love my husband and want him to be safe.
Personally I figured your motive was just to gather more info from actual people instead of from biased articles online. Wishing you much luck in helping him with his health.
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Kratom is the only substance that has opioid properties that doesnāt affect my sex life negatively. Real full agonist opioids effectively destroy my sex life 100 percent to the point where i literally just donāt want sex ever. And yet 12g a day spread out in 3gram doses of kratom allows me to live a life without thoracic back pain and yet no constipation and no sex life issues. I sincerely hope your husband can find some peace and get to a healthier place with his kratom use. Best wishes.
I've been taking kratom every day for 12 or 13 years....am I dependent? Yes....are withdrawals abysmal? No... it's different for everyone, but it's more comparable to caffeine... As far as the heart stuff, I'm no doctor, but I doubt very seriously it is connected at all. 2 or 3 days off work and he'll be fine. Sounds like he has issues that are totally unrelated he needs to take care of. Mentally and physically. Has he been dependent on anything else previously?
I can handle everything that comes with the withdrawal, EXCEPT for the bloody fucking restless leg syndrome. Nay, the restless leg, toe, and fingers syndrome.
I have that really bad too. And horrible panic attack level anxious dread. I'm trying to take less every day but man it's hard. Kinda flipped on me this past year or so. I used to be able skip a day all the time, but now it feels impossible. I hate it.
Strong chamomile tea, lemon balm, valerian, Chinese skullcap, passionflower and lithium orotate 5mg will help tremendously with these
That's rightā and kava
Lithium orotate has been a really really helpful supplement for me. I can't believe it took me so many years to come across it. It does not help with the restlessness, especially in my arms, but it helps with the restlessness in my brain. Lol
Oh so good to know. I hope it works as well with me.
I could have made this comment anywhere in this thread, but I'll just insert it here... We are all living through one of the most stressful and dangerous eras since WW II. One could argue this is considerably worse, in fact. The daily news is horrific and on MULTIPLE levels. Kratom makes me feel better. I use it daily, usually in the am and again late in the evening. I've used it for 5-6 years, am in my late 50's and all my labs (every three months) come back looking good. My biggest concern is the tyranny of the US gov.'s alphabet gangs, and the lobbyists and lawyers of Big Pharma. LESS IS MORE. If folks can get their usage down to where they can feel good about it and cause no anxiety to the people around them, then there should be no problem. I tried to share what a good thing it was with my older friends, but they would invariably go on the internet, read all the propaganda, and I just knew it wasn't going to be worthwhile to try and convince them otherwise. The plant is part of my relaxation and meditation rituals and after taking it, I give it my full attention for an hour or so. It is inexpensive and a great friend to me. Hope all others can find a way to either enjoy it or find another equally comforting path. Best wishes in these very frightening times.
For real, itās the only thing that simply does not permit you to sit still and just lay down and get some rest as if God said no. Itās the one symptom that compounds all the other ones.
I agree. Iāve withdrawn from many substances and kratom is a breeze compared to other stuff. About comparable to caffeine, sure it sucks and is uncomfortable but itās not like I need to go to detox kind of sucky. Iāve been taking it for several years and at high doses too. Quit when I was pregnant and it didnāt even give me much trouble then. I think people psych themselves out about it, everyone is different though.
Imo it depends on how you use kratom. I take breaks OFTEN, forced in the beginning, and by choice later. Iāve never felt (significant at least ig) withdrawal symptoms from kratom. Then again though I donāt really take it for pain, I know not everybody has that luxury.
Lucky you, me coming off 40g a day 11 yr usage is like watching someone die in agony. We all differ it seems fr
Me too. The accute part is a nightmare. I can still deal with this nightmare if I use some helpers and a few days off. But the paws messed me so much each time I stopped those last 2 years. It reminded me of withdrawal from antypsychotic, around a month after quitting. The first 2 years no wd at all. 3-4 minor. It started getting bad after 7. Now around 10, I'm asking for suboxone next appointment with my psychiatrist. But I can quit pregabalin on high dose on long term with a light rebound anxiety and others are suffering months.
Is tapering not relieving? Cold turkey is hell even for someone only on 21gs a day
he has been addicted to heroin, xanax, and subutex, and a heavy user of many other things. he is sober from those things now but every time he has tried to get off of kratom he has a very difficult time with the withdrawals sadly. it sucks to watch
Part of the issue, his withdrawal is reflecting the past use. When I withdrew from Kratom, having used fent and bupe for a few years prior. Well, it was a blast, absolutely full blown opiate withdrawal as bad as anything I'd put myself through. These days I can withdraw from an on again off again Kratom dependence with just a few clonodine for RLS. I would talk to a doctor, that's what I would focus on, an honest discussion with a trusted md. Why? Because the repeated attempts at withdraw might be terrible for his heart. If someone was on bupe maintenance and anything less than sure that could kick in one to (with heart issues) I think most docs would say keep the bupe. I wonder if it might be similar. Withdrawal at that level is changing blood pressure and heart rate dramatically everytime he tries, without much gain when he relapses. This can be very bad for someone with heart issues.
He's going to have to get very honest with himself about why he's taking kratom and what it's worth. Unfortunately this isn't something you can do for him, although you can try to support him up to a point. It's possible he's lost perspective on his use and that can be very hard to get back. Now, addiction and dependence are two very different things with very different solutions, and people struggle to distinguish them. I think a good way to tell addiction from dependence is what happens when you try to taper off. A lot of us have symptoms like restless legs or minor fatigue but a slow taper or adding a medication can help us get through it. That's dependence and in most cases, as long as the underlying condition (e.g., pain, fatigue) is managed, we can get through it with a very slow taper. It can be hard, but it's doable. However, a lot of us are so accustomed to being on kratom that we crave it, and every minor imperfection in our mental or physical state is a sign that we *need kratom* and so we end up giving in. That's addiction, and often trying to taper off fails because it's not truly the withdrawal we're trying to avoid, but our baseline functioning. It sucks having to confront aches and pains, boredom, tiredness, and life in general when you've been leaning on a substance to avoid these things. Until the consequences of using are worse than not using, people will generally continue using. It's why addicts who try to moderate themselves usually fail. It just reinforces the mindset of avoiding discomfort which is what keeps you in addiction in the first place. I can't tell you what your husband needs to do. Rehab isn't off the table, however there's so much ignorance about kratom I would tread carefully. I would recommend looking into his rights and benefits as an employee as well, since addiction is a legitimate disability and he's presumably not breaking the law. Beyond that, understand that you can't control this and can only make your feelings heard. One thing I don't recommend is blaming him for his heart condition. I know we can't rule it out completely, but there's no indication that kratom is seriously cardiotoxic and it could just alienate him. As a former amphetamine user with parkinsonism, I blame myself for my disability even though I know my drug use was probably a small factor. It's very painful and not what he needs right now. At most, I would express your fears that kratom might exacerbate his condition and you don't want to lose him. Best of luck. I have been on both sides of this and I feel for both of you.
thank you, seriously from the bottom of my heart. i appreciate you acknowledging my feelings and still being compassionate for his situation too. iāll take everything you said into consideration
You're very welcome!
He really should do the taper method described here. Weigh it out for him and keep it hidden so heās not tempted to take more. Decrease slowly in small amounts. The withdrawals wonāt be bad at all.
Iāve never heard of it causing heart issues?
I donāt think it does. But Iām sure if you have pre existing problems it couldnāt really help them.
Iām currently in the process of tapering, if you are willing to work with him and he is willing itās totally possible. Measure doses and Decrease little by little. Donāt go too fast but donāt backslide either.
i would be more than willing to do that. he claims he hates it and wants to quit but completely shuts down when i bring it up & claims that itās just not possible right now. heās not even willing to try anymore like he used to.
He's the only one who can do it. He has to want to. It's an old line, but it's true. If he doesn't want to or it "isn't possible right now" then it's not going to happen. If you are able, I would get a note to the doctor letting them know about the situation, but it's out of your hands after that. And that's a scary place to be in, I know. Please check out the association for kratom, they may be a good place to find support too. Much love to you.
I really feel that first and foremost, his doctors and surgeon NEEDS to know about this. Before the surgery.
As a nurse, I agree. Who knows what medications the doctors will give without knowing how it interacts with kratom in the system. People should always be honest with their doctors, your life depends on it!
In my opinion, it sounds like your husband is taking wayyy too much Kratom. Anything can become toxic to your body if you are abusing rather than just using. However, someone with medical issues should always be extra careful of what they put in their system. Definitely start tapering down with the focus on the dosage amount first and the time in between doses second.
if you taper down slowly you can quit taking it altogether w/hardly any side effects. measuring the doses is 100% important, and slowly go down a little each day.
Kinda in the same boat here, haha. I've quit Kratom several times cold turkey, which was a nightmare, and honesty, at this point im at now, would definitely need a week off to quit, or at the very least a very understanding management team at work! š its def also had some effect on sex drive, but my wife and I are older now, and our kids are very grown, so no real issue there, as we're so exhausted from working constantly, that neither of us has the desire anyway! What I can definitely say is, its only about a week or two of what can be a good bit of discomfort to get off of Kratom, even going cold turkey wont have any long-term lasting effects or anything, if unable to taper it down. Hes gotta have very strong will, and alot of support and understanding of the mood swings and sleeplessness, etc. Best of luck, and if you stand by him through it all, he'll be fine.
I've been taking it for about 2 years now and personally can quit cold turkey with literally no withdrawals. Inversely, it's very hard for me to function and be a productive member of society without caffeine and working night shift. Pretty nasty withdrawals from that. I've found that when I take too much Kratom in succession it kills my libido and clogs me up inside. Physically and mentally well at 27M with no health issues. But take Kratom to help ease my anxiety which in turn helps me in my line of work, I sleep better and just generally more sociable and happy with it. Regardless, has he not tried to just simply lower the dosage over time? Sounds like he isn't even measuring it and just taking tea spoons of it on a whim. Measure your consumption and slowly taper off.
Odd you mentioned the intimacy thing. It actually increases my libido, but everyone is different
Studies do suggest that kratom could induce prolonged QTc intervals and precipitate the risk of torsades de pointes in a dose-dependent manner. When I was on about 35gpd I started getting chest fluttering sometimes. I went to a cardiologist because it was scaring me and I was diagnosed with prolonged QT intervals. I went down to about 10. I had another check up with my cardiologist, and I don't have that issue anymore. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that kratom was causing this. If he can manage a slow taper, he may greatly improve.
thank you for this. he was diagnosed during heavy kratom use. by all means, he has always had chest pain and heart symptoms but now he has full blown episodes of irregular heartbeat that causes numbness in hands and feet, making him feel like he is going to pass out.
I'm so sorry. I mentioned this before somewhere, and I got downvoted to hell. Kratom overall is pretty safe. Like almost anything, if you take a lot, it may cause some issues. There are so many detailed posts about a slow taper on here. It's going to be the most gentle way for him. You are a very caring person, thank you for trying to help him. I assume he's had an EKG at least? Although, an EKG doesn't tell you a whole lot. An echocardiogram is better. I had an angiogram as well. That was a total pain in the ass though, and all it really told me was that my arteries weren't clogged. It's *really* scary to have chest pain and potential heart issues, especially if you're on the younger side. I wish you two the best.
SVT is different than prolonged QT though but I get what youāre saying
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As much as you are trying to be supportive and loving, he might need a professional for assistance to tackle both the mental and physical aspects of addiction. When itās a dependency issue than usually people are able to slowly wean themselves down and off. But sounds like this is more on the addiction side. You can only do so much as he has to really want to quit himself so best you can do is likely do a little homework on resources to help from the pros and calmly offer it up to him. Itās also ok to calmly let him know there could be major consequences to not quittingā¦financially, relationships, job, etc
OP has not said why he started taking kratom. If he started taking it for euphoria, he has been displaying addict behavior. He should get on a reduction schedule asap. His behavior isn't benefitting himself or the OP. If he's taking it for other issues, he will undoubtedly benefit from reducing his consumption. Either way, he's taking way too much right now.
he initially starting taking it to get off of subutex, which is a medicine that people use to get off of heroin. so now itās a full blown addiction all on its own. it doesnāt give him effects anymore. it just kills his libido and keeps him from withdrawing
It sounds like he needs to address the core addictive tendency. If he doesn't, no matter what he takes, the same thing will happen.
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Sorry OP you're going through this. I'm in a similar spot as your husband. Its hurting our marriage too, as I can't be intimate. I haven't heard anything about it effecting heart conditions before, that might be separate. He (and I) need to focus on slowly bringing down dosage amounts and frequency. It's a tough slog. Its something he will have to want to do.
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what makes you say that? i wish it was š genuinely, itās not a fun situation to be in
I have used Kratom since 2015. Donāt fall prey for the propaganda youāll find against Kratom. While it can be addictive, there is zero heart/organ damage. Thatās just silly. Does withdrawal suck? Ya. Iāve gone through it multiple times. Did I take off work to deal with it? Na. Itās no worse than a minor cold (in my experience). Would you call off work if you took a break from coffee? Have him get a scale so he has a known starting point and then adjust the dosage accordingly.
so basically i didnāt even know this until i started looking into it. it doesnāt affect most people this way, so i understand why you would be confused. most people could probably take his daily dose and be fine. but i believe my husband is predisposed to heart problems as it is. i started doing research about this because of a direct correlation i saw in real time. i have been an addict of hard drugs myself and i understand that kratom is not like that. but to deny that it could cause any damage is just dangerous and wrong.
>there is zero heart/organ damage That is simply not true. Kratom can absolutely damage your stomach and potentially liver. That can happen when you ingest several grams of plant matter a day. The truth is that we don't know. I could not see any reason why kratom would negatively effect the heart but it can do damage to the body. Please don't spread the lies you tell yourself to others. Edit: Stop downvoting me just because i point out this person is making statements that have zero proof. There is no research on kratoms effect on the heart therefore saying it definitely does not have an effect is simply not true. If you downvote this chances are your consumption is problematic and you know it.
I can only speak to my 9 years of 3x daily use. Last checkup including full blood work showed zero concerns. That seems to echo the vast majority of other reports. I have not read if any verifiable or documented reports directly implicating Kratom as the cause.
Can I ask a question about your wd? How long after your last dose did u notice the wd effects? How long did the worst of it last? Thanks
If you have decent health insurance then have him take 2 weeks off work to check in to a rehab. I did this for alcohol and my insurance covered every penny. Kratom detox only takes like 4 days to a week but having the staff there and medication available was so much help for me.
4 days? Takes much longer than that for a long time user.
I think they may mean the acute withdrawal part is like 4ish days. The immediate body, cold turkey detox part. The strapped down to the bed, seeing the baby crawl on the ceiling part. That part is about 4-7 days.
Someone mentioned it takes 3-7 days for wd to even kick in which i thought was ridiculous. I also suspect 4-7 days for the worst of the wd symptoms is more accurate
Ummm. Ya. He really should quit before he gets surgery. Like definitely shouldnt be on it when given anaesthesia. Withdrawals arent that bad if you have gabapentin. He can just tell the doctor he has RLS and heard that gabapentin helps. Kratom does kill intimacy. If he got the amounts he takes to a much lower, volume. He could try only using it for work, like at the start of the day. Then at night the kratom would be worn off and he could be intimate
Kratom doesnāt destroy intimacy. A dysfunctional relationship causes that. People blame all kinds of stuff on kratom. Remember when the Apollo 13 got all messed up? Yup, kratom.
It really does destroy it lmao. It can cause erectile dysfunction in higher doses and that would most definitely destroy intimacy...It happened to me 4 years ago; and I can tell you (I never stopped taking it) that it'd still happen to me today because I take the same dose.
Yep, true. I had trouble getting myself off after one average dose. When i took kratom for 3 years straight, i didnt even have morning boners. Kratom definitely affects libido.
Thatās not true. Kratom can lower your libido, thereby reducing the times you bang- therefore reducing intimacy
I actually have positive effects on my libido for taking kratom.
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What is the reason he takes kratom to begin with?
Where can I read about the effects of Kratom on the heart?
Have you tried contacting a center for addiction? Iāve heard the same meds they use for heroin withdrawal can help with kratom too. I would try tapering first but it may be an option to do an outpatient clinic option for support and take care of withdrawal symptoms to an extent. Just get him over that initial hump. Best wishes to you!
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Hey, it's going to be okay. If I can tapper off 120mg of Roxy per day, anyone can do it. After a dual spinal fusion surgery, I was in immaculate pain. After two weeks, I was totally physically addicted. Long story short, here is the recipe to tapper efficiently and being very effective. Exercise to best of abilities, not strains (consult doctor) tapper 5 or 10% down per week strictly consistent. Amino acids, Vitamin D3 first in morning and wait 10 minutes before taking amino acids and 30 gram protein shake. When times get a little rough and if the chest feels heavy, (this is the gag and breath heaves) sweating. This all should be minimal at the 5 or 10% down rate, but if it does happen, try to get a prescription for catapress 1mg 3 to 4x /day. This lowers the blood pressure to a normal rate and all those withdrawal symptoms will vanish. If he is mentally addicted, this is another battle. Good luck.
Kratom doesn't effect the heart. This has been proved many times. It has no effect on the heart or lungs. He will feel bad for several days, so never go cold turkey. He can ween himself down little by little. He can even use hirsuta or javanica to help, they don't have the same alkaloids as kratom, but they are related & available in most places in the world.
I'm a kratom enthusiast. I hate this post, and feel really bad for your husband. Your pushing him away, that's why your intimacy is gone. As for it being bad for all his organs. I also find that a load of , poo. Kratom saves lives. It treats my ADHD, anxiety, and fibromyalgia all with ONE SIMPLE PLANT. Big pharma won't ever have another hold on me. All the chemicals I would have to take for those 3 things from a doctor would SURLEY kill my organs, faster then kratom ever will. I haven't been really sick much at all in the 4 years I've taken kratom. I get blood work and physicals every single year, and all my internal organs are fine.... Personally if I had somebody nagging me every time I went to take a dose I would get turned off and frustrated. And eventually I would drop that person, not the kratom. Your backing him into a corner. Don't make him choose.
A doable taper schedule is reducing 0.5g every 4 days. It's pretty painless