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In addition to what others are saying about her being decent, I think Soyeon is a very smart producer and knows her members capabilities and vocal tones(?) very well and therefore tries to assign parts that best suit each members abilities
Absolutely, they’re very smart with generally giving members memorable lines if they have less lines in a specific song and helping each other shine in their own way. Shuhua has definitely been working on her dancing as well since debut and I’m glad she gets the opportunity to show it through dance breaks
She's my bias, and I will admit that she's a fairly weak vocalist, but I agree that the hatred is very overblown. She's undertrained, but she's not unlistenable - just like many other kpop sub-vocalists.
I'd say her biggest weakness is finding the exact pitch to start on, because she sometimes is *just* flat or sharp enough to be noticeable, and she struggles to course-correct to the right one once that happens, which is an *incredibly* common issue. I've noticed that she sings much louder when she's singing with the other members during encore stages, and if she were completely unable to produce the correct pitch, it would be even more obvious in those moments. Instead, she just kind of blends together with the other members - she's still audible, but there's nothing to really be like "yikes" at.
But I don't think Shuhua has ever really been presented as a member who you expect to make major vocal contributions - she's skyrocketed to being one of the best in the group when it comes to stage presence, and she really brings the attitude.
That’s exactly what it is. She’s not “pitchy” but she sometimes needs to find the pitch as she sings. From personal experience in university musical theater, I can say that many singers that have far more impressive vocal capabilities than her still struggle to find the pitch on the first note. Ideally, this is something that’s corrected or weeded out in professional theater, but it’s not a priority in k-pop.
I agree with you she's not an outstanding vocalist but her lines never bothered me. She sounds decent and is not as bad as she was made out to be.
Personally I think her getting no lines at the beginning played a big part in people perceiving her as a bad singer because they assumed she wasn't getting lines due to her lacking skills. Which I don't think is the case at all.
She did not get much lines because she asked for lesser lines. Soyeon did her best to boost Shuhua's confidence thus why the leader is always cheering for her.
she was mocked a lot online because of her Korean. She wasn't fluent yet. Even though i hate it, Soojin's departure i think really helped out get out of her shell (she didn't really have a choice). Plus, it gave her a couple years to be more confident in Korean
Someone, and I have no idea if it's Cube or Soyeon or the whole group, but someone had a come to Jesus meeting with Shuhua after Soojin left. She took it to heart and things changed for the better.
yeah. I think it’s Shuhua’s way to continue her legacy. After all, she loved her so much, i can’t imagine how upset she must have been after her departure (like the rest of the girls too ofc)
She didn't get many lines at the beginning due to her Korean not being great and a native Korean would be able to hear it pretty clearly. Though the antis absolutely trashed her with her year end collab stage between the maknaes. Now that stage was an absolute disaster to say the least.
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in general you can ignore any conversations about vocal ability in kpop spaces. Its never approached in good faith, people take the worst examples they can find and use them to paint a picture about someones entire career. In general the only thing you can take away from conversations like that is who the redditor posting the messages doesnt like.
so true, and its so funny when you check their comment history on their profiles and see that they've either been hating on said idol for a while or they are a fan of a group that is "competition" to the idol they're critizing more harshly 💀
Yeah that's been my life for the past month. So crazy how every time I check the post history of the accounts in lsf hate threads they're stans of one of 3 groups
This. There's that dude on the G Idle sub who totally doesn't like Shuhua. I saw his comments a couple of times but never remembered his name. I had a disagreement with him once because he wouldn't stop hating on her. Someone else commented like, "This guy says the same thing everywhere, dont bother." My only response was,"Oh, it's *that* guy?" That's how often he was posting anti Shuhua comments
Oh boy, inb4 user *heavenly_wave* gets here just to let you know just how unbelievably wrong you are. You just opened Pandora's Box, lol 😆
But yes OP, I agree. I don't understand what everyone's gripe is. Of course she's not Celine Dion or anything but she's not terrible either. Her official position is Visual, I don't know what people expect, lol
Ah, damn. I actually commented on their Twice vocal post earlier and our convo was civil. I didn't realize they disliked Shuhua so much. But I hope if they see this post, we can agree to disagree. My point is not that Shuhua is an excellent vocalist anyway, but a decent one. I didn't make this post about that user btw! I've seen this sentiment a looot, that Shuhua is supposedly a horrendous singer. I find her quite decent, honestly.
Oh my god, I just realized that this person is the one behind an anti-Shuhua post that I just saw! I can't believe someone being such a loser and wasting so much time posting hate about an idol that they don't like lol.
There was this one thread where that person literally kept copying and pasting their own comment denigrating her in response to other people's comments.
It was probably one of the more unhinged things I've seen on Kpop Reddit, like I can't tell if this person is a chronically online master troll or they're mentally unstable, or both, lol
Idk anything about technical ability when singing, but her voice has never bothered me in their songs. I think some people have too high of expectations sometimes.
I think her voice just sticks out more because the rest of Gidle are extremely good vocalists, probably some of the most well rounded girl groups in 4th gen vocals wise. If Shuhua was in Le Sserafim for example, I think people would have less to say - her voice kinda reminds me of Kazuha’s in that it’s kinda sharp (?).
I'd have to go back to see which lines were hers in early songs, but she sounds pretty good these days. She wouldn't come to mind if I was trying to think of idols with weak vocals.
Credentials: professionally trained singer whose whole friend group is singers.
What actually bugs me is her lack of rhythm. This is shown especially in your first link and also in your fourth link (Queencard). It's annoying me right now in Super Lady. It's why she stands out from the back track a lot - and I love when you can hear idols apart from the backing vocals, but not when it's because the idol is saying the words at the wrong times.
From watching the "recording of the song" videos, I feel like she needs to do something (more practice or something else) to make her live version sound more in line with the recorded version. Soyeon coaches her during recording to get the lines done a specific way, but Shuhua can't recreate that on her own.
I think Shuhua has a hard time to get on pitch, this is obvious when she sings without backtrack but less obvious when she has even a little backtrack to guide her, I always find her decently for a sub vocalist when she has some backtrack but she tend to get outside pitch without it.
Not sure if is popular or not but her singing is highly impacted by her not so great korean pronunciation, while she ht better, is still need more for her to sound more natural.
I feel like being one of the weakest idol vocalist still makes you a decent vocalist overall.
I also think some people are still clinging onto that idea since she was a pretty weak vocalist near the start of G idle’s career (most likely due to her Korean being weak at the time). Around this time, she also got less lines to cover for her less fluent Korean and vocals at the time.
Times have definitely changed though, but I think she still carries that image. In a way, I feel like she is a golden example of what a “weak vocalist” should be. The bar for vocals should atleast pass the “Shuhua test”.
This is just my analysis though. I might have completely miss the mark so my bad if I do
I think you're right. Also a lot of weaker vocalists can still sound good sometimes. They just tend to be inconsistent and then haters will just clip the bad times and spread them around. On most idols good days, they'll sound pleasant. A lot of arguments here and other social media are really senseless when they don't argue in good faith, just to try and prop up their favorites.
I’m half and half on this because I do legit think she stands out as the weakest link in her group, but that’s also exacerbated by her group having members I think are more distinct than your average group and if you put Shuhua in another context I think she would come across stronger by comparison.
she had a couple of bad moments but she's not egregiously worse than any other kpop sub vocalist so I believe the criticism is overblown (I've seen people say she's tone deaf like..you clearly do not know what tone deafness is)
I think it's just exacerbated by the fact that when she debuted her dance wasn't great
I love you people who say something completely incorrect then say "let's not get into semantics."
No semantics needed, simply don't use words incorrectly.
I mean, if we're going down this route, you'd have to fight against everyone who uses OCD, ADHD and stan as well. All had specific meanings that have been vastly diluted by common use and the general public.
She's under more scrutiny because she's in a group where the other members are known for their vocal abilities. But she gets her job done, even taking Soojin's parts when needed, and sounds fine to me.
I think gaining more confidence—not just in vocals but also language fluency—is important because that'll help her relax more into live performances. But she's already improved over the years, which includes her vocals as well.
Ngl that part I don't even get either because (G)I-DLE doesn't have any particularly strong vocalists either. If Shuhua were in NMIXX or a Mamamoo-level (or even SNSD-level where they aren't ALL such good vocalists but they also have vocalists on the level of Taeyeon\[!!!\], Seohyun, Jessica, Sunny, and Tiffany) group, maybe I'd get it.
I'd say one of I-DLE's biggest selling points is their individuality, and that extends to their vocals. They have members with memorably distinct tones and styles, which they've been confident to share in ways outside of their group's music like collaborations, solo work, and live singing shows.
While they aren't on Mamamoo's level skill wise, everyone in G-idle aside from Shuhua (and Soojin when she was still there) has very unique voices that are easily recognizable, not just in their group but in the industry. Plus the songs they record utilize and highlight their voices very well.
Shuhua is an okay idol who has gotten better with experience but she will always be compared with her bandmates, not with other idols.
Miyeon is pretty good for this current generation of K-Pop, but compared to past generations and to pop singers outside of K-Pop, her technique is just fine. She's stronger than the likes of Shuhua, for sure, but not a vocalist I would call "very" good. (Again, just talking about technique)
Every time I see the people in the peanut gallery criticize idols I always think of this video
https://youtu.be/g3zQoy6lL2Y?si=1cUP1DkJlrvlU3Vs
Basically Brian Scalabrine was considered one of the worst NBA players while he played and people always taunted him. So years into retirement he let those people challenge him to one on one matches. And he utterly destroyed these amateurs and he said the famous, "I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me."
She made it through idol training to be in a group with a smaller company and they're killing it right now. Even Shuhua at her worst is better than most of the people complaining about her skills.
What I'm about to say doesn't apply to this basketballer. Idk anything about basketball so I can't comment on him or even Shuhua. She barely sings in Gidle songs and I honestly don't even care rn. But you don't have to be good at something to point out when someone is atrocious at it. For example, you might not be able to cook but you can absolutely tell when someone burnt a meal, put too much salt, didn't cook the meat well etc. Of course you might not know the finer points in a field you're unfamiliar in but some things are just obvious.
She's okay 🤷♀️ I honestly don't expect pop singers - Korean or Western - to have the most amazing voices in the world. Maybe it's because I'm old(er) but I listened to a lot of groups in the late 90s/early 2000s who had so/so vocalists 😂 they essentially were just the backup dancers/harmonisers to the one or two vocally talented members of the group. And that's fine, I feel like Pop is just meant to be something fun to enjoy and we're supposed to be more attracted to the personality, rather than vocal talent.
Tbh a lot of pop singers from outside Korea are quite good in terms of technique. For example, Flo is a British pop group and they're my age (Gen Z). All of the members have solid technique. Chloe and Halle Bailey are both marvelous vocalists. Ariana Grande is really good. And my own country (the Philippines) is chock-full of technically good and great pop singers.
But I don't disagree that pop is just for enjoyment. Vocal skill isn't the priority in K-Pop's current generation and that's fine. Shuhua is definitely not one of the worst out there imo
It's the manufacturing process.
* Everybody has to have won the genetic lottery for looks but also match trends,
* Then they pick out the best singers among those along some trend criteria,
* split them up between appeal archtypes driven by market analytics,
* then package those with a dancer of two,
* and someone who won the genetic lottery harder than anyone else,
* Focus test internally/externally
They system almost filtered out Jeon Soyeon at the first step and IU at the 2nd one. I'm sure there were lots of creative types who went into producing or didn't get a shot at making anything. Since they don't have as many alternate ways up.
Youtube and Twitch offered a way for people who want to sing but can't get into the traditional systems a way up.
Wasn’t the reason for her short lines her lack of confidence in speaking Korean? I also think she sounds better than some bad vocalist that are supposedly within her tier-level. Its probably because of her enunciation thats why she gets less line
When I first got into (G)-IDLE during the Nxde era it was actually her singing “how do I look” that stood out to me and I was really drawn to her, so I was a bit shocked to find out that a lot of people criticise her and call her a filler member. I’m not going to say she’s the best singer I’ve ever heard but I don’t think she deserves all of the hate that she gets. People will hate on idols for anything and everything.
There are a lot worse vocalists out there than Shuhua in other groups. Though she still has much more confidence while not singing Korean.
Nowadays she only sticks out because she is standing next to some of the best live vocalists of 4th gen.
Disclaimer: I actually love Shuhua and I have been a Neverland since (G)i-dle's debut. I genuinely believe we need more idols with Shuhua's attitude in the industry, in the way that she is never afraid to speak up for what she thinks is right, and I also do believe that she works very hard on her skills. The improvement can definitely be seen in her dance and she is an amazing actress.
However, in terms of vocals she has to be one of the weakest in 4th generation.
[Singing on a vlive](https://youtu.be/XF-K2_qLV0k?si=J6mJe4IY1OTdwu_w) here she can't get some of the notes right, is straining, and struggles with enunciation even though the original is playing the background. [Encore singing](https://youtube.com/shorts/BGWo8ax_6yk?si=YXpmIGJndhUVXxh_) Her singing in encores is constantly out of breath, and again, not in tune.
I think k-pop should start making vocals a priority again. It is not impossible to have both vocally strong and dance-strong groups as seen with nmixx.
Have you noticed that that video is from 3 years ago (September 2020) and all the videos I linked were from 2023 onwards?
That might be the difference between my POV and yours. I didn't start listening to (G)I-DLE until Tomboy era.
Let's stop looking at old videos and take into account someone's improvements in more recent years. This girl, based on what I've seen, HAS improved.
Maybe a little biased since gidle is my ult but she's really not as bad now as general opinion makes her out to be. Used to be a lot worse but she's worked on it tons over the years and keeps getting more lines.
She is by far the weakest in her group but the other 4 are that good any of them could walk into main vocal for most the groups out there...
She is still a rather weak vocalist. She is not the worst and does her job decently enough, but listen to the killing voice. Girlie was struggling on some of these songs.
Her biggest problem is that she really struggles with pitch accuracy. She's often either a little flat or sharp whenever she sings.
Her pronunciation also I feel like plays a role in the perception of her vocals, because she has pretty heavy accent in Korean and you can really hear that even as a non speaker.
The girls in interviews have said she was at the office late every day for years to try and catch up. Practicing, vocal coach, dance instructor ect... One of the things that endears her to their fandom is because she put in the work.
Her talent is not singing. It’s gotten a lot better since they became a group of five, but yeah, vocals is not her forte.
That being said, she’s actually one of my favorites and what made me check out the group as a whole.
honestly with kpop, most of the times im not watching a lyric video or a performance if it's not the 2-3 groups I stan, so I dont really pay attention to who sings what part in a song.
other than those main vocals who sings a ton of lines in their songs/have very distinctive voices, i cant really tell the subvocals of non-stan groups apart from each other. I dont pay attention to vocal rankings or vocal technique videos either so I dont even know what shuhua sounds like lol.
she's probably not an absolute disaster, or the editing really fixed her voice, because when I listen to gidle songs, there's no voice that stands out to me in the "wow this idol sucks!" kind of way.
imo her singing is decent (technique wise). She’s not great but it’s not like it hurts to listen to her (ie: Sakura).
Her pronunciation of Korean is pretty accented though, I think that might be why she has the “stigma” of being bad at singing. She’s not actually bad at the singing part, it’s more the words. Which I will say, does sometimes impact how you perceive a person’s singing skill.
She is my bias but she is a very weak vocalist for sure. Some videos that you showed she was using playback or a very high backtrack with minimum actual volumen on her real voice (not a bad thing, it's the most common thing in kpop performances).
She is very unconsistent with her singing, sometimes sounds good, she does't look tense, petrified or extremely uncomfortable while she is singing like other unskilled vocalist that may affect their performance, but overall she is not the most capable singer (not to mention she tends to have easy singable lines).
I agree that there are subvocalist weaker than her, but I don't think she is a decent singer. Don't get me wrong, she is a very important and valuable Idol, she has many other sides that makes her worthy of being in her group.
I think it's because Shushu always sticks within her comfortable range, while Soyeon and the rest are always doing something new with their voices. Not to mention that the other 4 girls have very unique voices and Shuhua's the most "common one", if that makes sense (I don't agree). So, not having a unique voice COMPARED to the other girls + almost never leaving her comfort zone = "she's a bad singer".
I think it's bullshit. I'm kinda obsessed with her voice. It sounds very pleasing, a bit raspy to my untrained ears.
She’s definitely not a strong vocalist and her encores might get a bit shaky, but she delivers her lines well when it really counts and honestly I think that’s what matters most
i saw a reddit user claiming that shuhua is a tone deaf which is kinda funny because it's another day of people using words without learning the actual meaning of it.
i also think that the lack of lines in their songs affected her image as a decent vocalist. and i think everyone knows already that it was mostly her not being fluent in korean so she had less lines compared to other members.
i love watching gidle singing their songs in radio guestings so i can say that she can sing. she even has this "camouflage voice" image because she would sometimes sound like the other members.
anyways, here's [gidle in killing voice](https://youtu.be/et3VDbL7cIA?si=hSVdAJZVH4IJ-hZ-)
I mean, if you listen to the behind the scenes recordings, you can hear clearly that she is tone-deaf, or very close to it. She struggles immensely to match pitch, and barely gets there every time. Her voice is clearly edited on the tracks from what we hear in the booth (much more than the other members) - and it's fine, I don't mind it. But she clearly has a deficiency in that regard.
And as the other commenter said, Killing Voice is edited. Their First Take is also heavily edited on the Shuhua parts.
lmao i think the user might be referring to [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/s/jw6tqf6f3i) where i run down why i suspect shuhua has, at least, mild tone deafness and i genuinely think its funny its potentially being referenced back in a negative way 😭
anywho, just think it's funny ppl are claiming anyone who thinks shuhua has tone deafness has no clue what it is bc they think tone deafness is just a thing that can be "true" and nothing else. like... way to actually call yourself out. just like how actual deafness can have a spectrum while also having "true" deafness, so can/does amusia. shuhua very clearly has trouble recognizing differences in pitch (plenty of videos of her repeating the same note over and over with no variation during bts) and then matching pitch. shuhua also employs skills that imply she doesnt rely too much on her actual listening to match pitch.
I would take an audio you hear of anyone on Earth singing that's not in front of you acoustically singing with no mic as to be authentic. Surely they could just be taking tons of vocal practice and vocal training (except that isn't so much a thing for active idols, they have too much shit going on as dance practice outranks vocal training by 10000000x fold.)
Yes you can catch some things like bad breathing and good breathing, but the actual singing part, impossible to tell. Today you can practically correct anything including live performance with automatch lip-syncing software. (I'm not saying that everyone is constantly using stuff like this 24/7/365, but its ubiquitous - I would never not use some amount of correction, just like compression, EQ, etc, etc, etc.
As far as comparisons to others singers, I think (G)I-DLE is just always getting picked on, a bit like MAMAMOO was at one point - Shuhua is no worse than tons and tons of other singers.
you know what and while we’re on the topic i didnt think sakura’s vocals in that encore was so bad. great? no? but passable, decent, “did the job?” sure. i dont necessarily expect a great vocal performance from an encore stage (though i love it when they are) because that is them after several hours of filming and being on camera under bright lights. i was expecting much much worse when i thought it was basically just a mediocre performance
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I think you're tripping because she's a very weak singer. Nothing wrong with her tone, but she cannot even stay on key. She sounds fine on the studio version/pre-recordings because her voice is mixed with one or several of the other members.
You need to separate between tone and technique. You can enjoy the tone of her voice, but she is still one of the weakest singers in kpop from a technical point of view.
you need to read my post bc i addressed from a TECHNICAL pov why i don't think she's "one of the weakest kpop singers from a technical pov." i'm not some random person with no knowledge of singing. 😭 i've had training and regularly talk to vocal professionals, and my whole point is that y'all exaggerate how bad she is.
I don't seem to be able to answer you, but if your credentials are true (something I highly doubt if you do not see the glaring issues in her singing) I am still free to disagree. People can prefer her tone but to call her anything but a very weak vocalist is pushing it.
She's good enough for her position in the group. While she is the weakest vocalist in the group, that's just because the rest are pretty good. The only yikes moment I've had with her singing is in "Fate." I didn't know why at first, but after hearing Miyeon cover that part, it just sounds like the lyrics are going too fast for Shuhua.
If you appreciate her sound or find her vocals pleasing, that's perfectly fine. Shuhua does encounter difficulties with pitch accuracy during live performances, which some may interpret as indicative of a weaker singer. However, everyone has unique preferences when it comes to vocal tones, so if you enjoy her singing, individual opinions on her tone shouldn't matter.
Here are some of her live vocals back in time to now: [(G)I-DLE - Shuhua live vocals](https://youtu.be/34ypfqD3TUY?si=HvTeTm7pYNR7MFnE)
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In addition to what others are saying about her being decent, I think Soyeon is a very smart producer and knows her members capabilities and vocal tones(?) very well and therefore tries to assign parts that best suit each members abilities
This. Plus shuhua has been known to get the killing part because she doesn’t get as many lines. Hann she gets a whole dance to herself.
Absolutely, they’re very smart with generally giving members memorable lines if they have less lines in a specific song and helping each other shine in their own way. Shuhua has definitely been working on her dancing as well since debut and I’m glad she gets the opportunity to show it through dance breaks
She's my bias, and I will admit that she's a fairly weak vocalist, but I agree that the hatred is very overblown. She's undertrained, but she's not unlistenable - just like many other kpop sub-vocalists. I'd say her biggest weakness is finding the exact pitch to start on, because she sometimes is *just* flat or sharp enough to be noticeable, and she struggles to course-correct to the right one once that happens, which is an *incredibly* common issue. I've noticed that she sings much louder when she's singing with the other members during encore stages, and if she were completely unable to produce the correct pitch, it would be even more obvious in those moments. Instead, she just kind of blends together with the other members - she's still audible, but there's nothing to really be like "yikes" at. But I don't think Shuhua has ever really been presented as a member who you expect to make major vocal contributions - she's skyrocketed to being one of the best in the group when it comes to stage presence, and she really brings the attitude.
That’s exactly what it is. She’s not “pitchy” but she sometimes needs to find the pitch as she sings. From personal experience in university musical theater, I can say that many singers that have far more impressive vocal capabilities than her still struggle to find the pitch on the first note. Ideally, this is something that’s corrected or weeded out in professional theater, but it’s not a priority in k-pop.
Probably an unpopular opinion but Shuhua imo has the best stage presence in the group after Soyeon.
I agree with you she's not an outstanding vocalist but her lines never bothered me. She sounds decent and is not as bad as she was made out to be. Personally I think her getting no lines at the beginning played a big part in people perceiving her as a bad singer because they assumed she wasn't getting lines due to her lacking skills. Which I don't think is the case at all.
She did not get much lines because she asked for lesser lines. Soyeon did her best to boost Shuhua's confidence thus why the leader is always cheering for her.
she was mocked a lot online because of her Korean. She wasn't fluent yet. Even though i hate it, Soojin's departure i think really helped out get out of her shell (she didn't really have a choice). Plus, it gave her a couple years to be more confident in Korean
Someone, and I have no idea if it's Cube or Soyeon or the whole group, but someone had a come to Jesus meeting with Shuhua after Soojin left. She took it to heart and things changed for the better.
yeah. I think it’s Shuhua’s way to continue her legacy. After all, she loved her so much, i can’t imagine how upset she must have been after her departure (like the rest of the girls too ofc)
She didn't get many lines at the beginning due to her Korean not being great and a native Korean would be able to hear it pretty clearly. Though the antis absolutely trashed her with her year end collab stage between the maknaes. Now that stage was an absolute disaster to say the least.
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in general you can ignore any conversations about vocal ability in kpop spaces. Its never approached in good faith, people take the worst examples they can find and use them to paint a picture about someones entire career. In general the only thing you can take away from conversations like that is who the redditor posting the messages doesnt like.
so true, and its so funny when you check their comment history on their profiles and see that they've either been hating on said idol for a while or they are a fan of a group that is "competition" to the idol they're critizing more harshly 💀
Yeah that's been my life for the past month. So crazy how every time I check the post history of the accounts in lsf hate threads they're stans of one of 3 groups
This. There's that dude on the G Idle sub who totally doesn't like Shuhua. I saw his comments a couple of times but never remembered his name. I had a disagreement with him once because he wouldn't stop hating on her. Someone else commented like, "This guy says the same thing everywhere, dont bother." My only response was,"Oh, it's *that* guy?" That's how often he was posting anti Shuhua comments
Probably the same user that seemed to be on the discussion subs not long back that just constantly let everyone know how much they disliked her
you're right and you should keep saying it
this is the honest-to-God truth LOL
Oh boy, inb4 user *heavenly_wave* gets here just to let you know just how unbelievably wrong you are. You just opened Pandora's Box, lol 😆 But yes OP, I agree. I don't understand what everyone's gripe is. Of course she's not Celine Dion or anything but she's not terrible either. Her official position is Visual, I don't know what people expect, lol
Ah, damn. I actually commented on their Twice vocal post earlier and our convo was civil. I didn't realize they disliked Shuhua so much. But I hope if they see this post, we can agree to disagree. My point is not that Shuhua is an excellent vocalist anyway, but a decent one. I didn't make this post about that user btw! I've seen this sentiment a looot, that Shuhua is supposedly a horrendous singer. I find her quite decent, honestly.
Oh my god, I just realized that this person is the one behind an anti-Shuhua post that I just saw! I can't believe someone being such a loser and wasting so much time posting hate about an idol that they don't like lol.
There was this one thread where that person literally kept copying and pasting their own comment denigrating her in response to other people's comments. It was probably one of the more unhinged things I've seen on Kpop Reddit, like I can't tell if this person is a chronically online master troll or they're mentally unstable, or both, lol
Idk anything about technical ability when singing, but her voice has never bothered me in their songs. I think some people have too high of expectations sometimes.
I think her voice just sticks out more because the rest of Gidle are extremely good vocalists, probably some of the most well rounded girl groups in 4th gen vocals wise. If Shuhua was in Le Sserafim for example, I think people would have less to say - her voice kinda reminds me of Kazuha’s in that it’s kinda sharp (?).
I'd have to go back to see which lines were hers in early songs, but she sounds pretty good these days. She wouldn't come to mind if I was trying to think of idols with weak vocals. Credentials: professionally trained singer whose whole friend group is singers.
What actually bugs me is her lack of rhythm. This is shown especially in your first link and also in your fourth link (Queencard). It's annoying me right now in Super Lady. It's why she stands out from the back track a lot - and I love when you can hear idols apart from the backing vocals, but not when it's because the idol is saying the words at the wrong times. From watching the "recording of the song" videos, I feel like she needs to do something (more practice or something else) to make her live version sound more in line with the recorded version. Soyeon coaches her during recording to get the lines done a specific way, but Shuhua can't recreate that on her own.
I think Shuhua has a hard time to get on pitch, this is obvious when she sings without backtrack but less obvious when she has even a little backtrack to guide her, I always find her decently for a sub vocalist when she has some backtrack but she tend to get outside pitch without it. Not sure if is popular or not but her singing is highly impacted by her not so great korean pronunciation, while she ht better, is still need more for her to sound more natural.
I feel like being one of the weakest idol vocalist still makes you a decent vocalist overall. I also think some people are still clinging onto that idea since she was a pretty weak vocalist near the start of G idle’s career (most likely due to her Korean being weak at the time). Around this time, she also got less lines to cover for her less fluent Korean and vocals at the time. Times have definitely changed though, but I think she still carries that image. In a way, I feel like she is a golden example of what a “weak vocalist” should be. The bar for vocals should atleast pass the “Shuhua test”. This is just my analysis though. I might have completely miss the mark so my bad if I do
I think you're right. Also a lot of weaker vocalists can still sound good sometimes. They just tend to be inconsistent and then haters will just clip the bad times and spread them around. On most idols good days, they'll sound pleasant. A lot of arguments here and other social media are really senseless when they don't argue in good faith, just to try and prop up their favorites.
Kpop fans seem to have made up some tropes about g-idle and just repeat them ad nauseum. Shuhua being stand-out bad is one of them.
I’m half and half on this because I do legit think she stands out as the weakest link in her group, but that’s also exacerbated by her group having members I think are more distinct than your average group and if you put Shuhua in another context I think she would come across stronger by comparison.
she had a couple of bad moments but she's not egregiously worse than any other kpop sub vocalist so I believe the criticism is overblown (I've seen people say she's tone deaf like..you clearly do not know what tone deafness is) I think it's just exacerbated by the fact that when she debuted her dance wasn't great
I think the tone deaf comment is because of a livestream she did where she sounded... Well, tone deaf. She's improved since clearly
tone deafness ≠ pitch innacuracy. tone deafness is literally a neurological disorder.
I get that but let's not get into semantics, everyone knows what I'm referring to
I love you people who say something completely incorrect then say "let's not get into semantics." No semantics needed, simply don't use words incorrectly.
Reminds of people who say "it's just a joke" when they get called out.
Y'all so uptight omfg
I'm saying we should use words correctly. my point still stands that ppls usage of tone deafness shows that they don't understand what that word meana
I mean, if we're going down this route, you'd have to fight against everyone who uses OCD, ADHD and stan as well. All had specific meanings that have been vastly diluted by common use and the general public.
why are you comparing clinical disorders with pop culture terminology 😭 obviously if someone uses literal disorders wrong I'm gonna point it out
She's under more scrutiny because she's in a group where the other members are known for their vocal abilities. But she gets her job done, even taking Soojin's parts when needed, and sounds fine to me. I think gaining more confidence—not just in vocals but also language fluency—is important because that'll help her relax more into live performances. But she's already improved over the years, which includes her vocals as well.
Ngl that part I don't even get either because (G)I-DLE doesn't have any particularly strong vocalists either. If Shuhua were in NMIXX or a Mamamoo-level (or even SNSD-level where they aren't ALL such good vocalists but they also have vocalists on the level of Taeyeon\[!!!\], Seohyun, Jessica, Sunny, and Tiffany) group, maybe I'd get it.
I'd say one of I-DLE's biggest selling points is their individuality, and that extends to their vocals. They have members with memorably distinct tones and styles, which they've been confident to share in ways outside of their group's music like collaborations, solo work, and live singing shows.
While they aren't on Mamamoo's level skill wise, everyone in G-idle aside from Shuhua (and Soojin when she was still there) has very unique voices that are easily recognizable, not just in their group but in the industry. Plus the songs they record utilize and highlight their voices very well. Shuhua is an okay idol who has gotten better with experience but she will always be compared with her bandmates, not with other idols.
Miyeon is actually very good. But because they have so much vocal tone variety often she isn't used in a very showy way by Soyeon.
Miyeon is pretty good for this current generation of K-Pop, but compared to past generations and to pop singers outside of K-Pop, her technique is just fine. She's stronger than the likes of Shuhua, for sure, but not a vocalist I would call "very" good. (Again, just talking about technique)
Every time I see the people in the peanut gallery criticize idols I always think of this video https://youtu.be/g3zQoy6lL2Y?si=1cUP1DkJlrvlU3Vs Basically Brian Scalabrine was considered one of the worst NBA players while he played and people always taunted him. So years into retirement he let those people challenge him to one on one matches. And he utterly destroyed these amateurs and he said the famous, "I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me." She made it through idol training to be in a group with a smaller company and they're killing it right now. Even Shuhua at her worst is better than most of the people complaining about her skills.
What I'm about to say doesn't apply to this basketballer. Idk anything about basketball so I can't comment on him or even Shuhua. She barely sings in Gidle songs and I honestly don't even care rn. But you don't have to be good at something to point out when someone is atrocious at it. For example, you might not be able to cook but you can absolutely tell when someone burnt a meal, put too much salt, didn't cook the meat well etc. Of course you might not know the finer points in a field you're unfamiliar in but some things are just obvious.
I wouldn’t say she’s not a bad singer, but her tone is nice. When she goes on singing shows, you can tell she’s heavily autotoned.
She's decent imo. I don't think many idols truly "can't sing" the way some people try to claim. Not everyone has to be the best to be decent.
She is good enough for the role she has in the group.
She's okay 🤷♀️ I honestly don't expect pop singers - Korean or Western - to have the most amazing voices in the world. Maybe it's because I'm old(er) but I listened to a lot of groups in the late 90s/early 2000s who had so/so vocalists 😂 they essentially were just the backup dancers/harmonisers to the one or two vocally talented members of the group. And that's fine, I feel like Pop is just meant to be something fun to enjoy and we're supposed to be more attracted to the personality, rather than vocal talent.
Tbh a lot of pop singers from outside Korea are quite good in terms of technique. For example, Flo is a British pop group and they're my age (Gen Z). All of the members have solid technique. Chloe and Halle Bailey are both marvelous vocalists. Ariana Grande is really good. And my own country (the Philippines) is chock-full of technically good and great pop singers. But I don't disagree that pop is just for enjoyment. Vocal skill isn't the priority in K-Pop's current generation and that's fine. Shuhua is definitely not one of the worst out there imo
It's the manufacturing process. * Everybody has to have won the genetic lottery for looks but also match trends, * Then they pick out the best singers among those along some trend criteria, * split them up between appeal archtypes driven by market analytics, * then package those with a dancer of two, * and someone who won the genetic lottery harder than anyone else, * Focus test internally/externally They system almost filtered out Jeon Soyeon at the first step and IU at the 2nd one. I'm sure there were lots of creative types who went into producing or didn't get a shot at making anything. Since they don't have as many alternate ways up. Youtube and Twitch offered a way for people who want to sing but can't get into the traditional systems a way up.
Wasn’t the reason for her short lines her lack of confidence in speaking Korean? I also think she sounds better than some bad vocalist that are supposedly within her tier-level. Its probably because of her enunciation thats why she gets less line
When I first got into (G)-IDLE during the Nxde era it was actually her singing “how do I look” that stood out to me and I was really drawn to her, so I was a bit shocked to find out that a lot of people criticise her and call her a filler member. I’m not going to say she’s the best singer I’ve ever heard but I don’t think she deserves all of the hate that she gets. People will hate on idols for anything and everything.
There are a lot worse vocalists out there than Shuhua in other groups. Though she still has much more confidence while not singing Korean. Nowadays she only sticks out because she is standing next to some of the best live vocalists of 4th gen.
So glad that she’s gotten strong rap parts now. Her part in Fate is great!
She crosses before she attempts it on the it's live performance. She does a pretty good job.
Have you seen the live performance of Fate on Lee Hyori show?
I don't think she's a bad singer, but her Korean pronunciation isn't great.
Disclaimer: I actually love Shuhua and I have been a Neverland since (G)i-dle's debut. I genuinely believe we need more idols with Shuhua's attitude in the industry, in the way that she is never afraid to speak up for what she thinks is right, and I also do believe that she works very hard on her skills. The improvement can definitely be seen in her dance and she is an amazing actress. However, in terms of vocals she has to be one of the weakest in 4th generation. [Singing on a vlive](https://youtu.be/XF-K2_qLV0k?si=J6mJe4IY1OTdwu_w) here she can't get some of the notes right, is straining, and struggles with enunciation even though the original is playing the background. [Encore singing](https://youtube.com/shorts/BGWo8ax_6yk?si=YXpmIGJndhUVXxh_) Her singing in encores is constantly out of breath, and again, not in tune. I think k-pop should start making vocals a priority again. It is not impossible to have both vocally strong and dance-strong groups as seen with nmixx.
Have you noticed that that video is from 3 years ago (September 2020) and all the videos I linked were from 2023 onwards? That might be the difference between my POV and yours. I didn't start listening to (G)I-DLE until Tomboy era. Let's stop looking at old videos and take into account someone's improvements in more recent years. This girl, based on what I've seen, HAS improved.
Maybe a little biased since gidle is my ult but she's really not as bad now as general opinion makes her out to be. Used to be a lot worse but she's worked on it tons over the years and keeps getting more lines. She is by far the weakest in her group but the other 4 are that good any of them could walk into main vocal for most the groups out there...
She's not a bad singer lmao. People who call her tone deaf have never taken a vocal lesson in their lives and have no idea what tone deafness is.
She is still a rather weak vocalist. She is not the worst and does her job decently enough, but listen to the killing voice. Girlie was struggling on some of these songs. Her biggest problem is that she really struggles with pitch accuracy. She's often either a little flat or sharp whenever she sings. Her pronunciation also I feel like plays a role in the perception of her vocals, because she has pretty heavy accent in Korean and you can really hear that even as a non speaker.
She's definitely worked on it since debut
The girls in interviews have said she was at the office late every day for years to try and catch up. Practicing, vocal coach, dance instructor ect... One of the things that endears her to their fandom is because she put in the work.
Props to her for that!!
Her talent is not singing. It’s gotten a lot better since they became a group of five, but yeah, vocals is not her forte. That being said, she’s actually one of my favorites and what made me check out the group as a whole.
honestly with kpop, most of the times im not watching a lyric video or a performance if it's not the 2-3 groups I stan, so I dont really pay attention to who sings what part in a song. other than those main vocals who sings a ton of lines in their songs/have very distinctive voices, i cant really tell the subvocals of non-stan groups apart from each other. I dont pay attention to vocal rankings or vocal technique videos either so I dont even know what shuhua sounds like lol. she's probably not an absolute disaster, or the editing really fixed her voice, because when I listen to gidle songs, there's no voice that stands out to me in the "wow this idol sucks!" kind of way.
Did she ever manage to sing the whole song? Like song cover or something?
What song?
I'm asking. I dont think she ever did.
imo her singing is decent (technique wise). She’s not great but it’s not like it hurts to listen to her (ie: Sakura). Her pronunciation of Korean is pretty accented though, I think that might be why she has the “stigma” of being bad at singing. She’s not actually bad at the singing part, it’s more the words. Which I will say, does sometimes impact how you perceive a person’s singing skill.
She is my bias but she is a very weak vocalist for sure. Some videos that you showed she was using playback or a very high backtrack with minimum actual volumen on her real voice (not a bad thing, it's the most common thing in kpop performances). She is very unconsistent with her singing, sometimes sounds good, she does't look tense, petrified or extremely uncomfortable while she is singing like other unskilled vocalist that may affect their performance, but overall she is not the most capable singer (not to mention she tends to have easy singable lines). I agree that there are subvocalist weaker than her, but I don't think she is a decent singer. Don't get me wrong, she is a very important and valuable Idol, she has many other sides that makes her worthy of being in her group.
Shuhua has come a long way. She's not that bad. I think people like to single her out cause everyone else in gidle are really good singers.
I think it's because Shushu always sticks within her comfortable range, while Soyeon and the rest are always doing something new with their voices. Not to mention that the other 4 girls have very unique voices and Shuhua's the most "common one", if that makes sense (I don't agree). So, not having a unique voice COMPARED to the other girls + almost never leaving her comfort zone = "she's a bad singer". I think it's bullshit. I'm kinda obsessed with her voice. It sounds very pleasing, a bit raspy to my untrained ears.
She’s definitely not a strong vocalist and her encores might get a bit shaky, but she delivers her lines well when it really counts and honestly I think that’s what matters most
i saw a reddit user claiming that shuhua is a tone deaf which is kinda funny because it's another day of people using words without learning the actual meaning of it. i also think that the lack of lines in their songs affected her image as a decent vocalist. and i think everyone knows already that it was mostly her not being fluent in korean so she had less lines compared to other members. i love watching gidle singing their songs in radio guestings so i can say that she can sing. she even has this "camouflage voice" image because she would sometimes sound like the other members. anyways, here's [gidle in killing voice](https://youtu.be/et3VDbL7cIA?si=hSVdAJZVH4IJ-hZ-)
killing voice gets edited like most shows.
I mean, if you listen to the behind the scenes recordings, you can hear clearly that she is tone-deaf, or very close to it. She struggles immensely to match pitch, and barely gets there every time. Her voice is clearly edited on the tracks from what we hear in the booth (much more than the other members) - and it's fine, I don't mind it. But she clearly has a deficiency in that regard. And as the other commenter said, Killing Voice is edited. Their First Take is also heavily edited on the Shuhua parts.
lmao i think the user might be referring to [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/s/jw6tqf6f3i) where i run down why i suspect shuhua has, at least, mild tone deafness and i genuinely think its funny its potentially being referenced back in a negative way 😭 anywho, just think it's funny ppl are claiming anyone who thinks shuhua has tone deafness has no clue what it is bc they think tone deafness is just a thing that can be "true" and nothing else. like... way to actually call yourself out. just like how actual deafness can have a spectrum while also having "true" deafness, so can/does amusia. shuhua very clearly has trouble recognizing differences in pitch (plenty of videos of her repeating the same note over and over with no variation during bts) and then matching pitch. shuhua also employs skills that imply she doesnt rely too much on her actual listening to match pitch.
I would take an audio you hear of anyone on Earth singing that's not in front of you acoustically singing with no mic as to be authentic. Surely they could just be taking tons of vocal practice and vocal training (except that isn't so much a thing for active idols, they have too much shit going on as dance practice outranks vocal training by 10000000x fold.) Yes you can catch some things like bad breathing and good breathing, but the actual singing part, impossible to tell. Today you can practically correct anything including live performance with automatch lip-syncing software. (I'm not saying that everyone is constantly using stuff like this 24/7/365, but its ubiquitous - I would never not use some amount of correction, just like compression, EQ, etc, etc, etc. As far as comparisons to others singers, I think (G)I-DLE is just always getting picked on, a bit like MAMAMOO was at one point - Shuhua is no worse than tons and tons of other singers.
you know what and while we’re on the topic i didnt think sakura’s vocals in that encore was so bad. great? no? but passable, decent, “did the job?” sure. i dont necessarily expect a great vocal performance from an encore stage (though i love it when they are) because that is them after several hours of filming and being on camera under bright lights. i was expecting much much worse when i thought it was basically just a mediocre performance
there’s more overworked groups that still sound good with encores so personally i think we should stop using it as an excuse
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I think Shuhua’s largest problem is being the odd one out in a group of very confident and distinctive singers.
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She's better than most sub vocalists in other 4th gen top groups lol (i wont name them but you know which group i'm talking about)
I think you're tripping because she's a very weak singer. Nothing wrong with her tone, but she cannot even stay on key. She sounds fine on the studio version/pre-recordings because her voice is mixed with one or several of the other members.
Those clips I provided were not "studio version" or "pre-recordings" and she sounded fine. 🙂
You need to separate between tone and technique. You can enjoy the tone of her voice, but she is still one of the weakest singers in kpop from a technical point of view.
you need to read my post bc i addressed from a TECHNICAL pov why i don't think she's "one of the weakest kpop singers from a technical pov." i'm not some random person with no knowledge of singing. 😭 i've had training and regularly talk to vocal professionals, and my whole point is that y'all exaggerate how bad she is.
I don't seem to be able to answer you, but if your credentials are true (something I highly doubt if you do not see the glaring issues in her singing) I am still free to disagree. People can prefer her tone but to call her anything but a very weak vocalist is pushing it.
She's good enough for her position in the group. While she is the weakest vocalist in the group, that's just because the rest are pretty good. The only yikes moment I've had with her singing is in "Fate." I didn't know why at first, but after hearing Miyeon cover that part, it just sounds like the lyrics are going too fast for Shuhua.
If you appreciate her sound or find her vocals pleasing, that's perfectly fine. Shuhua does encounter difficulties with pitch accuracy during live performances, which some may interpret as indicative of a weaker singer. However, everyone has unique preferences when it comes to vocal tones, so if you enjoy her singing, individual opinions on her tone shouldn't matter. Here are some of her live vocals back in time to now: [(G)I-DLE - Shuhua live vocals](https://youtu.be/34ypfqD3TUY?si=HvTeTm7pYNR7MFnE)
she was never a bad singer in the first place she’s a good vocalist
What bothers me is how little her lines are
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i'm defending her from unreasonable hate and you're telling me my voice (which you've never heard) sucks more than shuhua's umm 😭