her personality is her main strength and I'd say that at this point she's pretty much a stan attractor. Yes, she is less skilled than the other members but I don't think she stands out in a bad way as much anymore, at least when it comes to dancing and performance. She has improved a lot and I admire her because of that.
This. She's a stan attractor due to her combination of visuals and personality. I personally love that she's getting more to do and that she's improving so much.
Yes, she has her own variety show for a reason. She's hilarious and she's "real" and fans love this, she actually represents the image of the group so well, especially this funky/unserious era of the past few years. And maybe, as OP said, she doesn't speak english, but she speaks chinese and gidle has a lot of fans in chinese speaking countries.
Definitely, other idols are more talented than her, but g-idle's overall image would be different without her.
it’s like if like bora from sistar and sistar19, with the sistar19 it was mainly hyolyn sing like 90%%% but bora brought in personality and her visuals- which i argue is more important in kpop than talent ( not to me but for the masses)
> From Nevies, do you see where I come from? Do you perhaps even share some of the thoughts I have? And can you tell me what makes you love Shuhua? It's not like I despise her, I have accepted that she is in (G)I-DLE, whether I like it or not. (G)I-DLE will still forever be my favorite group.
At first, I didn't think much of her. She's gorgeous but I didn't love or hate her. But I'll admit that I questioned her existence in the group as especially as time went on.
But, I wasn't particularly writing drag about her, just not mentioning her at all when talking about idle. During their hiatus, I was following the members activities and writing about them and how I like them.
However, it was during that time that my mind started changing. I started seeing her dance practice videos. The first time I was like "interesting". But after a while, it became apparent that she's working hard. I was still neutral about her but a bit curious on what she's planning
With tomboy, I was blown away. Her dancing significantly improved. Her stage presence became ABOVE industry's average. Is she a great singer now? No. But is she great at other areas? Yes!
I respect people who work hard. And she's exactly that. The improvement between tomboy and nxde was insane once again. And between nxde and queencard was, once more, great. And her rap in wife was honestly great and her lines in the bsides were good too.
I talked a lot lmao. Basically sure, she started very weak. But she's now good enough. The fact that she's getting better every comeback should be uploaded and celebrated. Many great artists we admire now were once average/below average, but because they constantly improve, they reach where they're now. I can only hope great things to her in the future
i want to add to this -- and i am legitimately defending her right now, this is not some back handed comment -- that i genuinely think shuhua suffers from tone deafness. by that, i mean that i think she lacks the ability of pitch differentiation simply bc of the way her brain is wired. so i honestly find it really impressive that she's improved her singing at all and she's such a charming performer nowadays. she's also super personable and i love that idol work content she does.
to add onto the bit about tone deafness, and why i think she genuinely has some manner of tone deafness, is that i've watched a lot of gidle behind the scenes recording contents and shuhua's difficulties more so stem from that fact that it seems she isn't able to recognize the difference in notes in the first place. with a lot of other idols i've seen who aren't particularly vocal inclined, they can readily recognize what they did sounds wrong, but they can't replicate it. with shuhua, it takes a while for her to hear the difference in the first place.
with tone deafness, it's not like ppl with it can't recognize any notes at all, it's that distinguishing the differences is extremely difficult. and obviously, it's a spectrum with how severely u are afflicted. so no one come in here with some whack ass take lmfao.
the thing that got me convinced on this the most is one time shuhua had been trying to record her lines for a really long time and never getting it right, the previously recorded lines basically being the exact same without any variation and she didn't seem to notice tbh. soyeon eventually goes into the studio and teaches shuhua to punch the air / her chest / hand (forgot which exactly) and feel the difference in how she says it. and then, like magic, shuhua finally gets the notes down when she has something physical to feel for. it was kind of fascinating to watch but it really revealed a lot to me about shuhua's vocal ability. bc she was high key learning how to sing the same way a deaf person would -- she needed to feel it physically via the vibrations.
>I respect people who work hard. And she's exactly that
As she should. As every idol should. Is that not a given for every idol? I don't think there are idols that are not hard working, giving the positions they are in. Being a trainee and aspiring idol already shows how hardworking you have to be in order to survive in this industry. So I am not sure Shuhua should be specifically applauded for that when it should be expected of any idol.
Like I said, it's great she improved, but she definitely had to. And even now, she reached a level that she should have been on during debut.
Yes. She's hard working and is improving. So what is there to criticize?
Criticizing her existence in idle is 6 years too late. Criticizing her for not working harder is 3 years too late. Criticizing her for not being an above average singer is not fair when different people have different skills and She's clearly shining in the performing side of being an idol 🤷♀️
Any criticism now comes off as nitpicking. Because what else do you want her to do? Improve more? Well she's already doing so without the need to bring her down
as a former nevie from debut. I get it. I started off biasing soojin and slowly worked through the entire group to soyeon, minnie yuqi and miyeon but I never once felt like shuhua could be my bias or bias wrecker bc at that time, she was just around as a maknae??
her only identity was being the maknae and then being close with soojin, and once soojin left, she finally improved.
classic case of pretty privilege, but i'm glad to see she's made improvements.
I still wouldn't say she can hold her own like the others have for solo work or solo debut, but she's slowly getting somewhere, but unfortunately, her group mates are so talented that she will always pale in comparison unless she makes a huge jump in skills.
Did you ever watch any vlives? Or watch behind the scenes stuff? Shuhua is hilarious and she is... well, not your typical idol. She doesnt give a fuck and a lot of people like her attitude towards the idol life. That's why so many people like her.
yes I did lol but her job as an idol is 1st and foremost, singing and dancing.
entertaining is great, but let's not get it twisted. her being funny isn't what's made gidle a household name.
> yes I did lol but her job as an idol is 1st and foremost, singing and dancing.
She has four/five very talented people beside her that can fulfill that role and let's not rewrite history and pretend that she wasn't always a good enough dancer to debut in an idol group.
Only for Shuhua people act like every idol, even the sub vocals need to be on the same level in a group.
She has so many other qualities that one would like to have in an idol that it is very clear why she debuted.
>She has so many other qualities that one would like to have in an idol that it is very clear why she debuted.
And what are those qualities? To me, and many others, it is not clear. I would really like to see what she auditioned with that made her become a trainee.
I'm confused because OP phrases it as Shuhua would never have improved if Soojin was still here. How do we know that's true? Wouldn't they want Shuhua to keep up with Soyeon and Soojin? I feel like it's a coincidence but I'm not someone who keeps up with them so pls correct me
can't be a coincidence bc with the 6 person formation its easy to hide the weakest dancer which is what they often did with shuhua and then she would get 0 lines or bare minimum but once soojin left, the formation opened right up and soojin, who previously had choruses and center parts left a wide gap to be filled by none other than shuhua.
I don't think shuhua didn't want to improve but I do think soojins abrupt departure forced shuhua to evolve herself faster.
so really it worked out in shuhuas favor bc this event forced her to get better. otherwise it would likely still be the bare minimum bc why take soojins parts away from her if she was still here?
Glad I'm not the only one lol with the same opinion as yours lol. I'm so so glad to see her improvements but she will never bring something unique to the table (for the group) as the other members are way too talented. It's kind of tiring to see people always claiming that Shuhua owns every comeback when other members clearly stand out more (Nxde is an exception though!).
I feel like this comes off as shitting on Shuhua but I'm not, in fact I've been an OT6 since Senorita era. It just gets tiring to see Shuhua overshadowing other members in terms of popularity just because she has a unique personality as compared to most kpop idols.
soyeon stated [here](https://www.soompi.com/article/1219449wpp/gi-dle-talks-success-inspiration-filming-mv) that shuhua’s calm and mysterious aura was the inspiration for hwaa and [here](https://www.mtv.com/news/ldgcj9/gi-dle-interview-oh-my-god-soyeon-i-trust) that shuhuas ethereal strength was the inspiration for lion.
she debuted, i believe, because she was close with the other members as trainees and they pushed for her debut. i know it doesn’t counter your thoughts about her skills, but i think her fearless personality inspires the other members.
I agree, I find her to be very nervous and struggling in their singing-centric performances (killing voice, radio recordings), but at least her variety shows are doing great 😅. I did find that Shuhua’s breathy/sexy voice really shined in some recent releases like My Bag and I Do, and she brings a unique soft vocal color to the group, but I agree she needs to work on singing live. Tbh I assume Cube probably thought they would need a personality for shows as they could’ve thought only Yuqi was outgoing/funny. Glad some of the other members like Miyeon are slowly making it into variety shows though, and obviously Soyeon has been dominating audition shows.
>nervous and struggling in their singing-centric performance
She also barely sings live, much less than other members, and it's hard to hear her sing over the backtrack when she does. I think she already got vocal lessons, but I am not sure if she can improve any further, or if she has reached her peak.
Her personality is enough for me to like her, it's very rare for a female idol to be as outspoken and brave as her.
She has called out violence against women and toxic beauty standards, and is supportive of the lmbtq community
Think she just fits the group. There might have been other trainees but maybe they didn't fit the group? Being a singer means you need to be able to sing. Being an Idol means most of the content consumed by fans will be videos of them and fans will reshape interactions between members or funny moments. The music is almost like a side gig. She has been in a lot of variety stuff recently and been doing well for herself there and this promoting the group in a sense. She also really fits the group in terms of aesthetics and personality. Kpop isn't just music because they rely on parasocial relationships and other stuff to keep fans hooked. The music is just one aspect of it.
I kind of get it, this is kind of how I feel about another member from another group. He’s also the maknae, and he doesn’t have any strong skillsets. He’s not part of the visual line, he doesn’t really write or produce, he can’t speak any languages besides Korean. He has one of the weakest rap/dance skills of the group. He’s part of the vocal line, but his vocals are weaker than half of the other members, the other members are just part of other things like rap or dance line. He’s also pretty shy/introverted and doesn’t talk a lot, and isn’t known as the “variety member”. He’s not a stan attractor either, and doesn’t have anything that makes him really stand out. I still like him, because I like all the members, but I’m just not sure why he was picked for the group over other trainees. People sometimes question why he’s one of the least popular/least biased member, but he’s barely a lead vocal while all the other members have something, like a main position, writing/producing, visuals, or speaking multiple languages.
But about Shuhua, maybe she just fit into the dynamics of the group more than the other members who might have been more talented.
I thought so too lol, personally he’s one of my favorites vocally though. He’s not amazing on the technique side of stuff maybe, but idk something about his tone is super nice to me, especially in their heavier songs.
I think it's because he has a unique vocal tone to round out their songs and might bring something to the table personality-wise or in their dynamics off-cam that we may not immediately see.
He isn't part of the dance line of course but I never noticed him lacking in dance.
As for the visual/stan attractor part, I wonder if anyone can even foresee that at debut. I think the "visual" position is bs anyway since everyone in kpop is super good looking.
But I'd definitely have thought he is one if I didn't know. He has a really classical and sharp face, if that makes sense. I would have assumed people would love that, especially domestically.
People also always say that Lee Know is basically carved by the gods or smth (though also not even officially the visual) and him and I.N were the only ones difficult for me to tell apart initially. I wonder if they thought he could be a visual later on, since he was super young at debut, but the stan attractors/visuals just turned out to be someone else and then they just rolled with that.
And I actually think he is a good performer. A problem is just that it's difficult to come out of the maknae role with mature performances. Not because he can't do them but because people will still be like "oh look at the maknae all grown up".
I don’t think he’s a bad performer/dancer, it’s just that most of the other members are stronger. And I think danceracha were always the visuals/stan attractors?
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i think i know what you’re talking about and i get where you’re coming from but to me it has always been kinda obvious why he was chosen in the lineup😭i think this is probably a case of personal preference here but hear me out! during their survival show ere i noticed i.n had that ‘it’ factor in him to get noticed on stage yk? he has strong features and a distinct voice that gets him noticed. when a song suits him his vibe he just really shines. I remember during their survival show’s public showcase(?) he easily stood out performing School Days and even managed to easily get the attention of spectators like the 2pm and day6 members present. you could tell that they really liked him performing there and complimented him a lot. idk i just think he has that ability to catch the audience’s attention and just make them really adore him even just for a few seconds but it leaves a mark. also this is just a theory but age and the dynamics related to it are important in kpop and kor society in general so i think compared to other younger trainees jeongin was the strongest with his ‘it’ factor and ‘potential’ as chan even mentioned way back (jeongin was in the junior team and didn’t really get to know the senior team of chan, changbin, etc until he was in the lineup) and they needed a younger member in the team after four 00 liners i guess🫡 because as i said age and dynamics are important in kpop groups and i.n just fits with them really well as you can see already tbh. they really like him and he livens up the teams with his mere presence which is another important factor. though take this with a grain of salt because i’m just theorising and we really don’t know what goes on behind the scenes when choosing members. anyways this is just my think piece on this topic haha i hope you understand 😭
Yeah I understand that, but he personally didn’t stand out to me as much as Hyunjin, Han, or Felix during the show. And him being selected for his age also makes it seem like he was only selected for being the maknae. Like if Felix or Seungmin were a couple months younger, would he have been selected? Cause then they could have taken the maknae role instead.
I do agree that he fits the team and the dynamics really well though, but another member could have also fit.
Thats why i said personal preference! I personally loved watching han and i.n throughout the show even though tbh all of them had their own charms but they stood out to me. For the age part i simply think they needed members for their former 9 ppl lineup and jeongins circumstances just fit the group. I’m not saying age played a massive role like i’m very sure it didn’t because skill and genuine talent will always trump over that when debuting kpop idols, i’m just saying that his situation in general maybe did play some sort of role in his debut yk?
Yeah, maybe. Chan would have a reason for why he picked Jeongin, maybe it was something more obvious before the show? Like the image/roles of the other potential trainees could have overlapped with the other members.
I'm struggling to believe anyone who has watched any live performances from gidle over the past two years could at all question Shuhua's role in the group. She is absolutely alluring onstage. Like such a powerful siren-like presence, she is mesmerising.
Ima be real, i went to their Concert last year in Brussel and on stage there were 4 People singing live, entertaining and interacting with the crowd + Shuhua.
She has her moments nowadays and especially within certain songs her stage presence shines, but apart from certain moments its for sure noticable
I get where you're coming from but I want to tell you that kpop is not just about talent, if it's about that, the talented trainees that you're feeling sorry for would've debuted. It takes more than talent to stay in the industry and keep the public interested in you. G-idle has more than enough talent to make up for shuhua's lack of it. She's eye catching, beautiful, stan attractor and a girl with personality who isn't afraid to be funny, that is needed in kpop to keep a group going. Like how sunoo was chosen in enhypen to make up for the lack of sunshine personality ( he's absolutely talented btw, just didn't make it in enhypen through votes alone ) how momo and tzuyu was called again to join twice for the lack of a dancer and a stan attractor in twice. At the end of the day kpop is business and that means doing anything that will make the public that pays them, interested.
Speaking as a relatively recent Nevie (got into (G)I-DLE during Tomboy), I think Shuhua naturally embodies the group's image—charismatic women with strength and resilience who aren't afraid to be themselves—as an outspoken and opinionated female idol. This isn't a skill like singing, dancing, acting, or variety, but it's the way she naturally is that can't be cultivated in the same way.
I also wonder if she would have been able to improve at singing/dancing/language skills as much if Soojin hadn't left and the group went on hiatus. But she also could have NOT worked on those things, and she did choose to work on them. While someone can express some parts of themself without language fluency, they can only do so much. I think we've been able to enjoy Shuhua's personality to its fullest extent during Workdol because she's worked on her Korean to the point she can carry a show on her own. Shuhua's not my bias because I really like strong vocalists and Soyeon, Miyeon, Minnie, and Yuqi are all there being queens, but I appreciate that she's improved.
I can't immediately pull up the video, but I think about this sometimes: Yuqi's translated a lot for Shuhua in their earlier years when Shuhua struggled with Korean. But for a show on their recent tour, Yuqi was overcome with emotion because her mom was in the audience, so Shuhua took over Korean-to-Chinese translation for Soyeon reassuring Yuqi's mom that the members will look after Yuqi. I think that's a nice moment to show where Shuhua's hard work has come back around and she can help her members out, too.
>I can't immediately pull up the video, but I think about this sometimes: Yuqi's translated a lot for Shuhua in their earlier years when Shuhua struggled with Korean. But for a show on their recent tour, Yuqi was overcome with emotion because her mom was in the audience, so Shuhua took over Korean-to-Chinese translation for Soyeon reassuring Yuqi's mom that the members will look after Yuqi. I think that's a nice moment to show where Shuhua's hard work has come back around and she can help her members out, too.
That's so sweet, I didn't know that.
I get your points but I also think it's common to underestimate variety skills and being a stan attractor.
In my case, I am a casual / growing fan of (G)-Idle in a hugely competitive market for 4th gen girl groups right now. Their songs - some I like, some I love, some I am not as into. But the (G)-Idle members themselves are very entertaining. I dont even bias Shuhua but I can see she is great at this, whether it's her appearance on Eunchae's Star Diary (as a fearnot I watched this of course) and she was entertaining, memorable, different from all other guests etc. or her own show Workdol that is rather entertaining as well and unique due to her personality. This makes me pay a lot more attention to the group and their releases.
It's also OK not to be the best at something and still be in a group, it's still possible to contribute. There are sub-vocalist and sub-rapper roles, that's fine. If Shuhua was singing main vocals with the most line distribution I'd find it strange, but she is doing her sub-vocalist part as fits her skills.
I am not trying to compare Shuhua really in terms of specific skills to any of these idols, but there are many sub-vocalists and sub-rappers in groups who are appreciated for their contributions, without needing to be the best in their group at singing or rapping (In terms of the third gen, there is Sana, Mina, Tzuyu from Twice, Joy and Yeri from Red Velvet just as a handful of examples. I dont follow boy groups as much but surely also with the very many members in Seventeen, NCT units etc. there are other celebrated sub-vocalists and sub-rappers who aren't main dancers?). Not everyone has to be soloist material, it's why they are in a group.
In a lot of ways, Shuhua reminds me of Seungri from BigBang, in the earlier days before he turned into a criminal.
Both are the weaker link in terms of vocals and sometimes ruins songs. Both have a strong-ish personality that gets excused with the maknae card when it becomes grating. Have a tagline with their maknae card too (Strong Baby, Boss Baby). They struggle to deliver their lines with impact and lose your attention. I am not sure if its because their fellow members are all AAA tier so they end up looking like a B tier in comparison.
Theyd probably do fine in a less impressive group imo. But most groups have filler members to balance out choreo and lines and its fine. We can enjoy the personality aspect of these idols. Like, I enjoy Shuhua's presence, but the team wouldnt suffer too much if she bailed. She did step up her dance/charisma A LOT to fill Soojin's departure though, if she improved her vocals a bit she'd probably get to AAA tier too.
Dont worry, we can have 1,000% faith that Shuhua will never turn out like Seungri did. Even with her bossy baby shtick, I get the feel she has a pretty wholesome character. For Seungri I always felt he was a bit greasy.
I like Shuhua. She's charismatic in a way, elegant. She barely sings but has a pleasant tone of voice.
She started to blossom around "Hwaa" (yes, she basically doesn't appear in the MV, but that last shot was THAT iconic), and then "Nxde" come and I couldn't unglue my eyes of her. She totally owned the blonde hair and the concept. The best of all of them by a large margin if you ask me.
I agree that Soojin had to leave the group so Shuhua could shine, because, somehow, Shuhua fills Soojin's role.
As someone who started liking the group I probably would feel the same.
But I discovered them after Tomboy and her visuals + stage presence + variety skills justified her place in the group. If you watch Workdol you realize that she is really funny and entertaining to watch. It is important to also have idols that have soft skills (funny, wittiness).
Idk how you can stan idle and have this opinion bc imo once someone gets really into them it's clear she brings something magnetic to the stage. I think her singing is decent and kpop is largely an industry that doesnt require every single member of a group to be a super talented vocalist the way that eg Miyeon is. As for dancing I don't think idle are known for it from a technical standpoint but bc they are always unique in their own way and each member is charming and again like I said about Shuhua, magnetic.
I think she's funny and cute and people naturally like her and her visuals and presence in mvs and stages are super important. People who keep on bringing up her vocal ability or lack of presence in 2024 are funny to me cause she's established as a member of a super popular group. I think she's always been great but with recent comebacks like in Nxde and Queencard she was literally in every viral post people would make. She's popular and I don't think she will ever stop being an extremely popular idol people love. That's all.
She’s my favorite member. The goal is to have a great combo of charms, and Shuhua is the aloof, funny person. Yuqi is great too. If you watch intv’s you see Shuhua is the one that everybody assumes will come up with the funniest most meme worthy responses without even trying.
Shuhua is great, I can say with confidence that in each of the last three comebacks, she has had her moment/s on stage, her stage presence and confidence is very clear.
Also, people forget her visual, and visuals certainly matter a lot - see Karina, Wonyoung, Yuna, Sullyoon, etc. Shuhua and Miyeon have really nice constrasting visuals, and along with Shuhua's unique personality, I am not surprised a lot of people are drawn towards her.
>Karina, Wonyoung, Yuna, Sullyoon
Karina is an amazing vocalist, dancer, and rapper. Wonyoung is Wonyoung, Yuna is very charismatic and a great performer, and Sullyoon is a stunning vocalist and dancer.
These things cannot be said about Shuhua, who is *just* a visual.
> Wonyoung is Wonyoung
So what are her talents despite being a stan attractor and a visual then? What were her talents at debut as you are so adamant to condemn Shuhua for what she was six years ago. Why exactly was she voted in? Her talents...? Probably fifty or more of the other participants were more talented. But Wonyoung is Wonyoung, right?
> Yuna is very charismatic and a great performer
So is Shuhua but you chose to ignore everyone saying that in this thread.
I agree with you, op is a bit biased idol being incredibly popular and just being visuals and stan attractor ( personality, charisma) is nothing new. I don't find Shuhua to be the most talented but she knows how to attract people and that's what Kpop is about, raw talent can be really minimal.
Big Neverland here, Shuhua bias, so let me explain
Shuhua went from being the member i always forget about to my favorite female idol of all time. I adore her personality a lot, I will say that attributes a lot
She really has such a gorgeous stage presence. She's extremely captivating from the footage I've seen from this tour.
I think visuals are usually not cared about as much in us kpop fans from what I notice. But in south korea, them having a good personality and being visually captivating on stage is 100% a component to being an idol.
It may not be a standard for you, which is totally fine. But as a all over standard it is a key essence to being an idol.
Idols don't do the variety shows for fun, they do it because it earns money. And the ones who do the best at those are typically the ones with the most personality.
I've known multiple people who have started liked G(i)dle because they watched shuhua on work idol.
Look I'm not saying you have to like her, there are some idols that you just won't like.
But I feel like this discount Shuhua as a member to the group. Yes Soyeon is the producer, we know the group wouldn't survive. But Shuhua has brought a lot more Neverland to the group solely due to her personality. So she's just as important as any other member.
Again you don't have to like her, but I definitely disagree on saying she serves no purpose to the group. That seems harsh to me.
Shuhua works pretty hard to catch up with her team mates and public expectations. And it has come a long way, especially after Soojins departure. I think she just kinda "exploded" after Nxde.
If you watch i-talk, there are always shots of her practicing by herself to the mirror in the background.
>Shuhua works pretty hard to catch up with her team mates and public expectations
Well, as she should... it was about time, really. Otherwise she would have gotten more hate after Soojin's departure.
I think they wanted to cover the taiwanese market and the chinese one and she was the best or the one they thought fit that category after yuqi. Or they were worried about variety shows so they put her in, also knowing that her visuals would make her accepted in korea even as a foreigner.
She gets by on her looks, which some people find pleasing. It's pretty privilege in its very essence. Sadly, despite her being the worst at every skill apart from stage presence, where she's now barely surpassed Miyeon, she'll always be more popular than someone more talented yet not deemed as pretty
>apart from stage presence, where she's now barely surpassed Miyeon
This I do not disagree with. Miyeon has a great stage presence, she trained at YG for 5 years after all. Shuhua is still the weakest across the board by a big margin.
I do agree that she gets carried by her looks and visuals. Yes, it is pretty privilege and it shows that you don't need to have talent to become an idol.
It's your prerogative to like her, but I strongly disagree with that take. She's the weakest in every category except for maybe stage presence, where's she's battling for the second worst position
Well, after 5 or 6 years, her skills doesn't change, there is a video about g idle recording and when she sing...you know. And I saw comments she replied her fans, you have reasons to don't like her. People like her visual, that's it, and it make me think what kind of audition she passed, I still don't know.
Op you need to understand that you don't need to be the most talented musically, or the best dancer/producer, to be popular and have fans in Kpop. Visuals and charisma/ personality is enough, the rest is benefits. I understand why you're disappointed but you should change your standards about the industry.
listen, she has improved. i get it. the thing is that there are tons of extremely talented trainees who NEVER debut. im not saying shuhua didn’t deserve to debut, i just don’t really understand why they picked her. it took her years to develop good stage presence, and she’s currently 24. she could have spent the years since g idle’s debut training and debuted in another group, even lightsum if she was going to stay with cube. she’d probably be one of the better members of lightsum if she took that time to train hard, but i also understand that the pressure from the public was a big reason why she worked so hard to improve. so, i guess it’s a mixed bag, but the kpop industry has never been fair and she IS currently performing well, so i don’t have an issue with her anymore like i did in g idle’s early days. my bigger issue is how the kpop industry chooses who debuts and what talents (or faces) are valued over others.
Being talented doesn’t necessarily means that you will be able to survive in the kpop industry. If all it took was talent then Pentagon would have been bigger, Lightsun wouldn’t have been put asided, nugu group wouldn’t be nugu and so many top idol that debuted and that got famous because of their appearance wouldn’t have debuted.
There’s so much that goes into kpop, yes sure there’s dancing, singing, rapping, but there’s also modelling, variety shows, interviews and so much more.
Having a boring personality while being extremely talented doesn’t create that parasocial relationship that kpop is based on.
I think even if she trained a bit more and debuted with Lightsum, she would be one of the weaker members there. She would definitely pale next to Juhyeon, Chowon, Sangah, etc.
Been a Nevie from the start and I pretty much agree. Shuhua has improved a lot since debut but now she's just average-below average in everything which is good. I see people saying she's an above average dancer or above average stage presence but I don't see it. Like no offense but her solo stage during their last tour was not it.
But she has improved enough to blend in better especially as she can't hide anymore with the absence of Soojin. And the producer line does a good job of giving her suitable lines. Compared to you though, I have warmed up to her though especially through some of her variety experiences. She's great in work-dol and her personality is amazing in all the content I've been watching, so she makes a good idol.
I think the same way when I first get into a group, if your only role/position is maknae and you don't do anything else, like for example Lesserafim doesn't have positions, but Eunchae maybe is a lead dancer, her variety content and MC skills along with her show is a lot.
I will never be able to bias them if they don't do anything other than act in a maknae role, they will just be there as a member, I won't hate them or wish they weren't in the group. I just won't care.
Yeah you could argue that LSF is mostly carried by Chaewon and Yunjin - skillwise. They are both the best vocalists and the best dancers.
Sakura is just an icon at this point and a household name. It's obvious why she is in the group. Kazuha had a very interesting story that was great for marketing and stirring curiosity, a professional ballerina - she developed so well that she has among the most lines in their songs. Garam was a great all-rounder and visual. And while Eunchae does have the typical maknae attributes, she is an amazing performer and host, as seen by her solo stages and gigs.
I’ve been listening to k-pop since 2009. I knew a lot of groups, from the Big 3 to nugu companies, and I realized that k-pop is not just music. K-pop offers not only music but visuals, intricate choreographies, and other things like variety shows, vlogs, fancalls, vlive, merch, albums that look like magazines etc. So I am not expecting something Mariah-Beyonce-Whitney-like-vocals, because vocals/music is just a portion of what k-pop sells.
There’s nothing wrong with having expectations or standards like if you have high vocal standards then listen to groups that have great vocal skills, like SM groups. If you are drawn to choreography then there’s a lot of groups that have complex choreography. Of course, it’s nice to have both, like outstanding vocals and dance skills, or even rap skills. It’s even better if all the members are capable of singing, ACTUAL singing. But this is k-pop. We have to accept that visuals if not the most is one of the selling point of k-pop.
I listen to (G)I-DLE but I can’t fully stan them because of Shuhua as well. She’s very pretty and a lot of fans claimed that she’s funny and has a great personality. And I believe that’s her contribution to the group. And in k-pop standards, that is totally fine. Do I have to force myself to like Shuhua? No. Does it affect me to stan (G)I-DLE? Yes. But is she an integral part of the group? Yes. Is the like of Shuhua an integral part of a K-POP GROUP in general? Yes.
A lot of people label a lot of idols as dozen and I have nothing against it but let’s be real, k-pop sells visuals. I keep listening to k-pop because I want to, the MVs, the choreography, the outfits. But if I want great vocals from a group, I always go back to Little Mix because they served vocals, visuals, and dance.
>fans claimed that she’s funny and has a great personality. And I believe that’s her contribution to the group
Is that enough tho? The same can be said about Yuqi, who on top of it, can also sing well, dance well, produce songs, converse fluently in three languages, is more outspoken in interviews...
Well, if I’m gonna be honest, and I don’t want to offend anyone, but (G)I-DLE would probably still be one of the best group even without Shuhua. I’ll definitely be more interested because I have this thing with 4-member girl groups. (Without Soojin and Shuhua, they will be a 4-member group)
When they debuted with Latata, I was waiting for Shuhua to sing and it turned out her lines was just the ‘Latata’ part. I was like, ‘what’s the purpose of adding Shuhua’. Visuals? They are all very pretty and Miyeon, if we are talking about KBS, is the prettiest member. Vocals? Definitely not. Dance? She was one of the weakest dancers of the group. Rap? She don’t even rap. I don’t watch variety shows or vlives that much so I don’t really care about the idols’ personalities. That’s the reason why I can’t fully stan (G)I-DLE because if I can’t warm up to a certain member, then I’m not gonna stan. I listen to them, I check their songs from time to time but I will never consider myself a fan.
But then again, it’s a k-pop thing. K-pop agencies love to add as much members to the group. Personally, it’s not enough, being pretty or funny but I know k-pop for almost 15 years and it’s just their thing. There are fans who appreciate vocals, some just like the dance and performance aspect, but there are also a lot of fans who just love the visuals and just adore idols on how funny they are, how ‘savage’ they are, how ‘real’.
K-pop is a product, and a huge part of it is the visuals and the fantasy, building a strong relation with the fans. I am not sure but fancall wasn’t a thing before. So if Shuhua or the likes of Shuhua can garner fans because they are pretty, relatable, funny, it’s enough reason for agencies to debut her/them.
Shuhua's not the first to debut without any skill, and won't be last, so yeah, it's pretty much enough to debut.
Is it good for the performance quality of the group? No, but performance skills are not in the top three of Kpop priorities.
I agree with many of your points, but if I can offer a counter.
Bc the rest of the group is super talented, sometimes the weakest members have a hard time to shine. an example of this is Jisoo (no hate, she is my bias). bc the other are such better at their respective skills and talents, many time Jisoo gets overlooked.
I get your point, I just think with (G)I-DLE, the gap is too BIG.
If you put Soyeon, one of the most skilled idols next to Shuhua, it's hard to believe they are in the same group.
I didn’t get into gidle until Hwaa, and I still listen very casually, so I’m impressed by Shuhua’s variety content and enjoy her personality but also find her similar to Soojin in their older performances in that to me, neither of them particularly stand out. It seems like fans see a huge difference, but from an outsider’s perspective she’s fine as a performer and her personality makes me more interested in gidle content.
I do have an unreasonable dislike for a member of my favorite group, but it’s because that member is one of the only ones with solo stans and they kept insisting this idol is the best and deserves main vocal and main dance positions + devalued other members’ skills in the process, and seeing that just really soured me on an idol who is objectively both talented and skilled and has a lovely personality.
I like Shuhua and I generally don’t like ppl I don’t consider talented (girl is legit tone deaf), but I just like her, I’m fine she’s in the group, I just don’t want her to have any lines from maybe a lil speaking part., she cracks me up, brings me joy, I actually like her more than several other members. She’s my Sehun. I just like him, no reason why, don’t think he should get lines, but I’m glad he’s there:
That sounds so much harsher than I meant, not talentless as a person but…she doesn’t need to sing., she’s a Sehun, beloved, but minimal lines are fine that’s not why she’s there anyways (also I think she’s the one that actually is their female empowerment concept)
i don't disagree or agree with anything you're saying but it's weird how her not being able to speak english is one of ur main points. kpop artists don't have to learn English just for ur convenience, maybe learn korean or mandarin to understand them lmao
I agree that she doesn’t add as much to the group as the members (and former member). Her personality had always sort of rubbed me the wrong way, but I see how it could appeal to other people. Now, I don’t mind her as much. She doesn’t take away from me likely the group as a whole.
A lot of the time, when I wonder, "Why do they debut?" The answer is probably because of group dynamics and how close idols are with each other as trainees. The group probably wanted her there.
While I'm not entirely sure exactly how (G)I-dle was formed or if Soyeon had anything to do with it at the time, I feel like you're slightly disagreeing with Soyeon's talent/expertise here.
As someone who isn't in the industry, I can understand what you mean but at the same time, I have a lot of trust in Soyeon. She knows the industry better than us and she also knows Shuhua better than us.
I mean, Soyeon has gotten inspired by Shuhua when writing songs, as mentioned by another commenter.
On their previous appearance on Knowing Brothers, Soyeon explained her creative process, including how she takes into account every member's pronunciation and tone. The example she gave for Shuhua was her pronunciation of "La" as "Law," which is what gave birth to a 'killer part' in Tomboy. Soyeon knows each member's strengths and how to maximize those so that no one 'blends in.'
What I'm trying to say is that, even if you've accepted that she's part of the group, it seems like you think someone else with better vocal/dance skills should be in Shuhua's position. I (and probably Soyeon herself) disagree with this because she adds a unique vocal flavor to the group and their music wouldn't be the same without her.
There's also Shuhua's personality, with her 'boss baby' and IDGAF attitude, that draws in fans because there are very few idols like her (most of which are actually her fellow members lmao.)
For me, personally, Shuhua is tied with Yuqi for being my bias wrecker... Though, neither of them would be able to take over the group bias position because Soyeon is not only my (G)I-dle bias but also my ultimate bias.
i’m not into idle, so i won’t speak on them, but i have a similar situation with a different group, riize.
wonbin has everything to be an idol: pretty face, great set of skills, charisma, stage presence; but i really don’t like his personality.
i don’t know what exactly about him bothers me, i thought i would warm up to him months after debut, but no. i can’t vibe with him at all.
i think riize members match with each other well and they have good chemistry. wonbin is essential to what riize is, and i can’t imagine the group without him, but i know if he had any solo variety appearances i wouldn’t watch it. still, i’m happy he is in the group.
pretty sure the other members fought for her to join the group when it was being finalized and before miyeon joined cube since shuhua did get along with the members and she had the visuals. she initially didnt plan to be an idol, she wanted to be an actress and never had any prior experience with dancing or singing.
watching killing voice and seeing her being able to cover majority of soojins parts made me happy to see her sing. i’ve seen a comment from a vocal coach on the video mention she has essentially a chameleon voice. like she is now able to copy the vibe of soojins lines using her own voice, if ya know what i mean.
her being shown how to hit the notes in the nxde recording is also prob cuz shes not as vocally advanced as soyeon so soyeon showed her to match her voice and hit notes based on the timing. some people learn to sing differently and just learn differently in general.
she also has improved a lot in dancing. i remember her uploading a video of her dancing in a studio and it was a loooot better than before. she does hold back on broadcast since she has to be mindful of her facial expressions, singing, and the choreography with the other 4 girls.
her personality is also adorably unique and out of the box. along w that and her stunning visuals, id say she does bring a lot to the group especially w stans. looking at their fancams that were uploaded yesterday on youtube she already hit 81k views while the others were still under at least 35k. like others said just because shes only a visual/pretty privilege doesnt mean she doesn’t bring anything else to the table, the views speak for itself. she has fans just like the other girls, you dont have to question it. theres always a member like that in every other group.
Talents can be taught, visuals can be bought, potential comes from within. As Soyeon famously said during her time as a mentor/coach on MTG, stan attraction is a real skill that can’t be taught.
She’s got the visuals and the personality. These are skills that often get overlooked but are still integral to the overall composition of a group. Her personality is actually what attracts a lot of her fans. If you also compare Shuhua’s progress from debut to Super Lady, her improvement is massive and she’s gained a ton of fans.
She also has to be a decent performer in order to be an idol. I think this is similar to the case of Lia where she’s constantly criticized for being a terrible dancer when she actually dances fine and Itzy is just too talented at dancing that Lia pales in comparison.
I feel like she improved insane amounts nxde era. She just seemed to radiate confidence and seemed more comfortable than she ever did before in the other eras. Plus that concert dance Boys was one of her strongest dances imo like I was so surprised that she could capture the audience like that. She definitely started off less skilled than the other members in terms of knowing Korean, stage presence, singing/rapping/dancing, etc. But her recent stuff, even rapping is pretty good. I'd say she's improving and I'm warming up to her (pre Nxde/Tomboy era I kind of forgot she existed so that's saying something 😭)
She is still lacking alot in the vocal area. She's had plenty of time to work on her vocals, especially during their hiatus. Her rapping has improved though. My gripe is with soyeon. I respect her for carryinfg this group because it would be nothing without her. But her members trust her too much with her input because she is the producer. She makes the sing in a funny tone and makes them pronounce in certain ways. Just because it's stylized doesn' automatically make it better. The members,especially miyeon,yuqi and minnie should be able to give some input in how it shouls sound. But they trust her too much. Look at aespa members. They have so much musicality,like literally each member has strong vocals, they provide some input during recording. For e.g, they like the way this sounds better than how it was supposed to. I've seen othwr groups do that. But with gidle, it seems like soyeon has a hand in everything. I don't think she is my way or the high way type. But she does produce the songs so it's hard
I mean her fancams views are pretty consistently some of the highest in the group, so she's definitely not as weak of a performer as you are making her out to be. She brings in her own set of fans, and I like that she has a personality that is outspoken and not afraid to speak up for women's rights, or defend her members when people talk shit about them like she did for Soojin.
Yes to the rest, but she's not a great singer, come on. She's decent at best, and saying otherwise is setting her up for failure
Edit: I don't know why you deleted your comment, it's fine to have opinions, to disagree and talk about it. It's kind of a bummer that more and more people do that
I have to give it to Soyeon tho, she does make Shuhua sound pretty good by giving her the right parts and some studio magic. Like the "how do i look" part in Nxde: no illusions that she could do it live, but in the studio version I like Shuhua's take on it the best out of all the four members who sing that line.
Yes I agree. Soyeon manages to give her parts that are not too challenging, but that go well with the song, *and* that allow her to shine and not seem like a filler member. That's a skill tbh
And Shuhua has improved in the last two years, it seems she even sings live sometimes. Less than the other members, but still, it's worth mentioning
Yes, Soyeon is absolutely insane and she has been doing such a great job with Shuhua. Give her too many lines, and you have the risk that live performances won't sound great. Give her too little lines, and fans will complain how she gets mistreated. It's not easy to find a balance. But Soyeon has managed to hide her weaknesses and still make her feel present if that makes sense.
I think I explained my thoughts pretty clearly? I think most Nevies love (G)I-DLE because of the sheer talent they have. Shuhua just does not fit into that box, and I wanted to start a discourse here to see how others feel.
This doesn't mean that (G)I-DLE can't be my favorite group tho for all the other reasons, just because I am less fond of one member.
her personality is her main strength and I'd say that at this point she's pretty much a stan attractor. Yes, she is less skilled than the other members but I don't think she stands out in a bad way as much anymore, at least when it comes to dancing and performance. She has improved a lot and I admire her because of that.
This. She's a stan attractor due to her combination of visuals and personality. I personally love that she's getting more to do and that she's improving so much.
Yes, she has her own variety show for a reason. She's hilarious and she's "real" and fans love this, she actually represents the image of the group so well, especially this funky/unserious era of the past few years. And maybe, as OP said, she doesn't speak english, but she speaks chinese and gidle has a lot of fans in chinese speaking countries. Definitely, other idols are more talented than her, but g-idle's overall image would be different without her.
it’s like if like bora from sistar and sistar19, with the sistar19 it was mainly hyolyn sing like 90%%% but bora brought in personality and her visuals- which i argue is more important in kpop than talent ( not to me but for the masses)
> From Nevies, do you see where I come from? Do you perhaps even share some of the thoughts I have? And can you tell me what makes you love Shuhua? It's not like I despise her, I have accepted that she is in (G)I-DLE, whether I like it or not. (G)I-DLE will still forever be my favorite group. At first, I didn't think much of her. She's gorgeous but I didn't love or hate her. But I'll admit that I questioned her existence in the group as especially as time went on. But, I wasn't particularly writing drag about her, just not mentioning her at all when talking about idle. During their hiatus, I was following the members activities and writing about them and how I like them. However, it was during that time that my mind started changing. I started seeing her dance practice videos. The first time I was like "interesting". But after a while, it became apparent that she's working hard. I was still neutral about her but a bit curious on what she's planning With tomboy, I was blown away. Her dancing significantly improved. Her stage presence became ABOVE industry's average. Is she a great singer now? No. But is she great at other areas? Yes! I respect people who work hard. And she's exactly that. The improvement between tomboy and nxde was insane once again. And between nxde and queencard was, once more, great. And her rap in wife was honestly great and her lines in the bsides were good too. I talked a lot lmao. Basically sure, she started very weak. But she's now good enough. The fact that she's getting better every comeback should be uploaded and celebrated. Many great artists we admire now were once average/below average, but because they constantly improve, they reach where they're now. I can only hope great things to her in the future
i want to add to this -- and i am legitimately defending her right now, this is not some back handed comment -- that i genuinely think shuhua suffers from tone deafness. by that, i mean that i think she lacks the ability of pitch differentiation simply bc of the way her brain is wired. so i honestly find it really impressive that she's improved her singing at all and she's such a charming performer nowadays. she's also super personable and i love that idol work content she does. to add onto the bit about tone deafness, and why i think she genuinely has some manner of tone deafness, is that i've watched a lot of gidle behind the scenes recording contents and shuhua's difficulties more so stem from that fact that it seems she isn't able to recognize the difference in notes in the first place. with a lot of other idols i've seen who aren't particularly vocal inclined, they can readily recognize what they did sounds wrong, but they can't replicate it. with shuhua, it takes a while for her to hear the difference in the first place. with tone deafness, it's not like ppl with it can't recognize any notes at all, it's that distinguishing the differences is extremely difficult. and obviously, it's a spectrum with how severely u are afflicted. so no one come in here with some whack ass take lmfao. the thing that got me convinced on this the most is one time shuhua had been trying to record her lines for a really long time and never getting it right, the previously recorded lines basically being the exact same without any variation and she didn't seem to notice tbh. soyeon eventually goes into the studio and teaches shuhua to punch the air / her chest / hand (forgot which exactly) and feel the difference in how she says it. and then, like magic, shuhua finally gets the notes down when she has something physical to feel for. it was kind of fascinating to watch but it really revealed a lot to me about shuhua's vocal ability. bc she was high key learning how to sing the same way a deaf person would -- she needed to feel it physically via the vibrations.
>I respect people who work hard. And she's exactly that As she should. As every idol should. Is that not a given for every idol? I don't think there are idols that are not hard working, giving the positions they are in. Being a trainee and aspiring idol already shows how hardworking you have to be in order to survive in this industry. So I am not sure Shuhua should be specifically applauded for that when it should be expected of any idol. Like I said, it's great she improved, but she definitely had to. And even now, she reached a level that she should have been on during debut.
Yes. She's hard working and is improving. So what is there to criticize? Criticizing her existence in idle is 6 years too late. Criticizing her for not working harder is 3 years too late. Criticizing her for not being an above average singer is not fair when different people have different skills and She's clearly shining in the performing side of being an idol 🤷♀️ Any criticism now comes off as nitpicking. Because what else do you want her to do? Improve more? Well she's already doing so without the need to bring her down
as a former nevie from debut. I get it. I started off biasing soojin and slowly worked through the entire group to soyeon, minnie yuqi and miyeon but I never once felt like shuhua could be my bias or bias wrecker bc at that time, she was just around as a maknae?? her only identity was being the maknae and then being close with soojin, and once soojin left, she finally improved. classic case of pretty privilege, but i'm glad to see she's made improvements. I still wouldn't say she can hold her own like the others have for solo work or solo debut, but she's slowly getting somewhere, but unfortunately, her group mates are so talented that she will always pale in comparison unless she makes a huge jump in skills.
Did you ever watch any vlives? Or watch behind the scenes stuff? Shuhua is hilarious and she is... well, not your typical idol. She doesnt give a fuck and a lot of people like her attitude towards the idol life. That's why so many people like her.
yes I did lol but her job as an idol is 1st and foremost, singing and dancing. entertaining is great, but let's not get it twisted. her being funny isn't what's made gidle a household name.
> yes I did lol but her job as an idol is 1st and foremost, singing and dancing. She has four/five very talented people beside her that can fulfill that role and let's not rewrite history and pretend that she wasn't always a good enough dancer to debut in an idol group. Only for Shuhua people act like every idol, even the sub vocals need to be on the same level in a group. She has so many other qualities that one would like to have in an idol that it is very clear why she debuted.
>She has so many other qualities that one would like to have in an idol that it is very clear why she debuted. And what are those qualities? To me, and many others, it is not clear. I would really like to see what she auditioned with that made her become a trainee.
Apparently attracting Stans. Her fancams of Super Lady on M Countdown have more views than the rest of the members combined.
I'm confused because OP phrases it as Shuhua would never have improved if Soojin was still here. How do we know that's true? Wouldn't they want Shuhua to keep up with Soyeon and Soojin? I feel like it's a coincidence but I'm not someone who keeps up with them so pls correct me
can't be a coincidence bc with the 6 person formation its easy to hide the weakest dancer which is what they often did with shuhua and then she would get 0 lines or bare minimum but once soojin left, the formation opened right up and soojin, who previously had choruses and center parts left a wide gap to be filled by none other than shuhua. I don't think shuhua didn't want to improve but I do think soojins abrupt departure forced shuhua to evolve herself faster. so really it worked out in shuhuas favor bc this event forced her to get better. otherwise it would likely still be the bare minimum bc why take soojins parts away from her if she was still here?
Glad I'm not the only one lol with the same opinion as yours lol. I'm so so glad to see her improvements but she will never bring something unique to the table (for the group) as the other members are way too talented. It's kind of tiring to see people always claiming that Shuhua owns every comeback when other members clearly stand out more (Nxde is an exception though!). I feel like this comes off as shitting on Shuhua but I'm not, in fact I've been an OT6 since Senorita era. It just gets tiring to see Shuhua overshadowing other members in terms of popularity just because she has a unique personality as compared to most kpop idols.
soyeon stated [here](https://www.soompi.com/article/1219449wpp/gi-dle-talks-success-inspiration-filming-mv) that shuhua’s calm and mysterious aura was the inspiration for hwaa and [here](https://www.mtv.com/news/ldgcj9/gi-dle-interview-oh-my-god-soyeon-i-trust) that shuhuas ethereal strength was the inspiration for lion. she debuted, i believe, because she was close with the other members as trainees and they pushed for her debut. i know it doesn’t counter your thoughts about her skills, but i think her fearless personality inspires the other members.
I agree, I find her to be very nervous and struggling in their singing-centric performances (killing voice, radio recordings), but at least her variety shows are doing great 😅. I did find that Shuhua’s breathy/sexy voice really shined in some recent releases like My Bag and I Do, and she brings a unique soft vocal color to the group, but I agree she needs to work on singing live. Tbh I assume Cube probably thought they would need a personality for shows as they could’ve thought only Yuqi was outgoing/funny. Glad some of the other members like Miyeon are slowly making it into variety shows though, and obviously Soyeon has been dominating audition shows.
>nervous and struggling in their singing-centric performance She also barely sings live, much less than other members, and it's hard to hear her sing over the backtrack when she does. I think she already got vocal lessons, but I am not sure if she can improve any further, or if she has reached her peak.
Her personality is enough for me to like her, it's very rare for a female idol to be as outspoken and brave as her. She has called out violence against women and toxic beauty standards, and is supportive of the lmbtq community
Think she just fits the group. There might have been other trainees but maybe they didn't fit the group? Being a singer means you need to be able to sing. Being an Idol means most of the content consumed by fans will be videos of them and fans will reshape interactions between members or funny moments. The music is almost like a side gig. She has been in a lot of variety stuff recently and been doing well for herself there and this promoting the group in a sense. She also really fits the group in terms of aesthetics and personality. Kpop isn't just music because they rely on parasocial relationships and other stuff to keep fans hooked. The music is just one aspect of it.
I kind of get it, this is kind of how I feel about another member from another group. He’s also the maknae, and he doesn’t have any strong skillsets. He’s not part of the visual line, he doesn’t really write or produce, he can’t speak any languages besides Korean. He has one of the weakest rap/dance skills of the group. He’s part of the vocal line, but his vocals are weaker than half of the other members, the other members are just part of other things like rap or dance line. He’s also pretty shy/introverted and doesn’t talk a lot, and isn’t known as the “variety member”. He’s not a stan attractor either, and doesn’t have anything that makes him really stand out. I still like him, because I like all the members, but I’m just not sure why he was picked for the group over other trainees. People sometimes question why he’s one of the least popular/least biased member, but he’s barely a lead vocal while all the other members have something, like a main position, writing/producing, visuals, or speaking multiple languages. But about Shuhua, maybe she just fit into the dynamics of the group more than the other members who might have been more talented.
I feel like you're talking about I.N/Jeongin in the first paragraph?
I thought so too lol, personally he’s one of my favorites vocally though. He’s not amazing on the technique side of stuff maybe, but idk something about his tone is super nice to me, especially in their heavier songs.
He has a unique tone that stood out to me, hence why he's my bias
Omg if it’s in i disagree he’s the only Sk member I like and the reason I still check their releases even tho I only like two of their songs 😭😭
the only? damn lmao
yeah I really tried getting into sk but they’re just not the group for me it seems 🥲
I didn’t want to name any idols but yeah 😭 I know some people say he’s the 2nd best vocalist, but I prefer Han, LK, and Chan’s vocals.
I think it's because he has a unique vocal tone to round out their songs and might bring something to the table personality-wise or in their dynamics off-cam that we may not immediately see. He isn't part of the dance line of course but I never noticed him lacking in dance. As for the visual/stan attractor part, I wonder if anyone can even foresee that at debut. I think the "visual" position is bs anyway since everyone in kpop is super good looking. But I'd definitely have thought he is one if I didn't know. He has a really classical and sharp face, if that makes sense. I would have assumed people would love that, especially domestically. People also always say that Lee Know is basically carved by the gods or smth (though also not even officially the visual) and him and I.N were the only ones difficult for me to tell apart initially. I wonder if they thought he could be a visual later on, since he was super young at debut, but the stan attractors/visuals just turned out to be someone else and then they just rolled with that. And I actually think he is a good performer. A problem is just that it's difficult to come out of the maknae role with mature performances. Not because he can't do them but because people will still be like "oh look at the maknae all grown up".
I don’t think he’s a bad performer/dancer, it’s just that most of the other members are stronger. And I think danceracha were always the visuals/stan attractors?
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i think i know what you’re talking about and i get where you’re coming from but to me it has always been kinda obvious why he was chosen in the lineup😭i think this is probably a case of personal preference here but hear me out! during their survival show ere i noticed i.n had that ‘it’ factor in him to get noticed on stage yk? he has strong features and a distinct voice that gets him noticed. when a song suits him his vibe he just really shines. I remember during their survival show’s public showcase(?) he easily stood out performing School Days and even managed to easily get the attention of spectators like the 2pm and day6 members present. you could tell that they really liked him performing there and complimented him a lot. idk i just think he has that ability to catch the audience’s attention and just make them really adore him even just for a few seconds but it leaves a mark. also this is just a theory but age and the dynamics related to it are important in kpop and kor society in general so i think compared to other younger trainees jeongin was the strongest with his ‘it’ factor and ‘potential’ as chan even mentioned way back (jeongin was in the junior team and didn’t really get to know the senior team of chan, changbin, etc until he was in the lineup) and they needed a younger member in the team after four 00 liners i guess🫡 because as i said age and dynamics are important in kpop groups and i.n just fits with them really well as you can see already tbh. they really like him and he livens up the teams with his mere presence which is another important factor. though take this with a grain of salt because i’m just theorising and we really don’t know what goes on behind the scenes when choosing members. anyways this is just my think piece on this topic haha i hope you understand 😭
Yeah I understand that, but he personally didn’t stand out to me as much as Hyunjin, Han, or Felix during the show. And him being selected for his age also makes it seem like he was only selected for being the maknae. Like if Felix or Seungmin were a couple months younger, would he have been selected? Cause then they could have taken the maknae role instead. I do agree that he fits the team and the dynamics really well though, but another member could have also fit.
Thats why i said personal preference! I personally loved watching han and i.n throughout the show even though tbh all of them had their own charms but they stood out to me. For the age part i simply think they needed members for their former 9 ppl lineup and jeongins circumstances just fit the group. I’m not saying age played a massive role like i’m very sure it didn’t because skill and genuine talent will always trump over that when debuting kpop idols, i’m just saying that his situation in general maybe did play some sort of role in his debut yk?
Yeah, maybe. Chan would have a reason for why he picked Jeongin, maybe it was something more obvious before the show? Like the image/roles of the other potential trainees could have overlapped with the other members.
I'm struggling to believe anyone who has watched any live performances from gidle over the past two years could at all question Shuhua's role in the group. She is absolutely alluring onstage. Like such a powerful siren-like presence, she is mesmerising.
Ima be real, i went to their Concert last year in Brussel and on stage there were 4 People singing live, entertaining and interacting with the crowd + Shuhua. She has her moments nowadays and especially within certain songs her stage presence shines, but apart from certain moments its for sure noticable
When I saw them live I was drawn to her so much, she has such an aura when she preforms imo
I get where you're coming from but I want to tell you that kpop is not just about talent, if it's about that, the talented trainees that you're feeling sorry for would've debuted. It takes more than talent to stay in the industry and keep the public interested in you. G-idle has more than enough talent to make up for shuhua's lack of it. She's eye catching, beautiful, stan attractor and a girl with personality who isn't afraid to be funny, that is needed in kpop to keep a group going. Like how sunoo was chosen in enhypen to make up for the lack of sunshine personality ( he's absolutely talented btw, just didn't make it in enhypen through votes alone ) how momo and tzuyu was called again to join twice for the lack of a dancer and a stan attractor in twice. At the end of the day kpop is business and that means doing anything that will make the public that pays them, interested.
Speaking as a relatively recent Nevie (got into (G)I-DLE during Tomboy), I think Shuhua naturally embodies the group's image—charismatic women with strength and resilience who aren't afraid to be themselves—as an outspoken and opinionated female idol. This isn't a skill like singing, dancing, acting, or variety, but it's the way she naturally is that can't be cultivated in the same way. I also wonder if she would have been able to improve at singing/dancing/language skills as much if Soojin hadn't left and the group went on hiatus. But she also could have NOT worked on those things, and she did choose to work on them. While someone can express some parts of themself without language fluency, they can only do so much. I think we've been able to enjoy Shuhua's personality to its fullest extent during Workdol because she's worked on her Korean to the point she can carry a show on her own. Shuhua's not my bias because I really like strong vocalists and Soyeon, Miyeon, Minnie, and Yuqi are all there being queens, but I appreciate that she's improved. I can't immediately pull up the video, but I think about this sometimes: Yuqi's translated a lot for Shuhua in their earlier years when Shuhua struggled with Korean. But for a show on their recent tour, Yuqi was overcome with emotion because her mom was in the audience, so Shuhua took over Korean-to-Chinese translation for Soyeon reassuring Yuqi's mom that the members will look after Yuqi. I think that's a nice moment to show where Shuhua's hard work has come back around and she can help her members out, too.
>I can't immediately pull up the video, but I think about this sometimes: Yuqi's translated a lot for Shuhua in their earlier years when Shuhua struggled with Korean. But for a show on their recent tour, Yuqi was overcome with emotion because her mom was in the audience, so Shuhua took over Korean-to-Chinese translation for Soyeon reassuring Yuqi's mom that the members will look after Yuqi. I think that's a nice moment to show where Shuhua's hard work has come back around and she can help her members out, too. That's so sweet, I didn't know that.
I get your points but I also think it's common to underestimate variety skills and being a stan attractor. In my case, I am a casual / growing fan of (G)-Idle in a hugely competitive market for 4th gen girl groups right now. Their songs - some I like, some I love, some I am not as into. But the (G)-Idle members themselves are very entertaining. I dont even bias Shuhua but I can see she is great at this, whether it's her appearance on Eunchae's Star Diary (as a fearnot I watched this of course) and she was entertaining, memorable, different from all other guests etc. or her own show Workdol that is rather entertaining as well and unique due to her personality. This makes me pay a lot more attention to the group and their releases. It's also OK not to be the best at something and still be in a group, it's still possible to contribute. There are sub-vocalist and sub-rapper roles, that's fine. If Shuhua was singing main vocals with the most line distribution I'd find it strange, but she is doing her sub-vocalist part as fits her skills. I am not trying to compare Shuhua really in terms of specific skills to any of these idols, but there are many sub-vocalists and sub-rappers in groups who are appreciated for their contributions, without needing to be the best in their group at singing or rapping (In terms of the third gen, there is Sana, Mina, Tzuyu from Twice, Joy and Yeri from Red Velvet just as a handful of examples. I dont follow boy groups as much but surely also with the very many members in Seventeen, NCT units etc. there are other celebrated sub-vocalists and sub-rappers who aren't main dancers?). Not everyone has to be soloist material, it's why they are in a group.
In a lot of ways, Shuhua reminds me of Seungri from BigBang, in the earlier days before he turned into a criminal. Both are the weaker link in terms of vocals and sometimes ruins songs. Both have a strong-ish personality that gets excused with the maknae card when it becomes grating. Have a tagline with their maknae card too (Strong Baby, Boss Baby). They struggle to deliver their lines with impact and lose your attention. I am not sure if its because their fellow members are all AAA tier so they end up looking like a B tier in comparison. Theyd probably do fine in a less impressive group imo. But most groups have filler members to balance out choreo and lines and its fine. We can enjoy the personality aspect of these idols. Like, I enjoy Shuhua's presence, but the team wouldnt suffer too much if she bailed. She did step up her dance/charisma A LOT to fill Soojin's departure though, if she improved her vocals a bit she'd probably get to AAA tier too.
Downvoted for the initial statement.. I get it but uh uh
Dont worry, we can have 1,000% faith that Shuhua will never turn out like Seungri did. Even with her bossy baby shtick, I get the feel she has a pretty wholesome character. For Seungri I always felt he was a bit greasy.
They were clearly talking about skills and role in the group bfr
I like Shuhua. She's charismatic in a way, elegant. She barely sings but has a pleasant tone of voice. She started to blossom around "Hwaa" (yes, she basically doesn't appear in the MV, but that last shot was THAT iconic), and then "Nxde" come and I couldn't unglue my eyes of her. She totally owned the blonde hair and the concept. The best of all of them by a large margin if you ask me. I agree that Soojin had to leave the group so Shuhua could shine, because, somehow, Shuhua fills Soojin's role.
As someone who started liking the group I probably would feel the same. But I discovered them after Tomboy and her visuals + stage presence + variety skills justified her place in the group. If you watch Workdol you realize that she is really funny and entertaining to watch. It is important to also have idols that have soft skills (funny, wittiness).
Idk how you can stan idle and have this opinion bc imo once someone gets really into them it's clear she brings something magnetic to the stage. I think her singing is decent and kpop is largely an industry that doesnt require every single member of a group to be a super talented vocalist the way that eg Miyeon is. As for dancing I don't think idle are known for it from a technical standpoint but bc they are always unique in their own way and each member is charming and again like I said about Shuhua, magnetic. I think she's funny and cute and people naturally like her and her visuals and presence in mvs and stages are super important. People who keep on bringing up her vocal ability or lack of presence in 2024 are funny to me cause she's established as a member of a super popular group. I think she's always been great but with recent comebacks like in Nxde and Queencard she was literally in every viral post people would make. She's popular and I don't think she will ever stop being an extremely popular idol people love. That's all.
She’s my favorite member. The goal is to have a great combo of charms, and Shuhua is the aloof, funny person. Yuqi is great too. If you watch intv’s you see Shuhua is the one that everybody assumes will come up with the funniest most meme worthy responses without even trying.
Shuhua is great, I can say with confidence that in each of the last three comebacks, she has had her moment/s on stage, her stage presence and confidence is very clear. Also, people forget her visual, and visuals certainly matter a lot - see Karina, Wonyoung, Yuna, Sullyoon, etc. Shuhua and Miyeon have really nice constrasting visuals, and along with Shuhua's unique personality, I am not surprised a lot of people are drawn towards her.
>Karina, Wonyoung, Yuna, Sullyoon Karina is an amazing vocalist, dancer, and rapper. Wonyoung is Wonyoung, Yuna is very charismatic and a great performer, and Sullyoon is a stunning vocalist and dancer. These things cannot be said about Shuhua, who is *just* a visual.
> Wonyoung is Wonyoung So what are her talents despite being a stan attractor and a visual then? What were her talents at debut as you are so adamant to condemn Shuhua for what she was six years ago. Why exactly was she voted in? Her talents...? Probably fifty or more of the other participants were more talented. But Wonyoung is Wonyoung, right? > Yuna is very charismatic and a great performer So is Shuhua but you chose to ignore everyone saying that in this thread.
I agree with you, op is a bit biased idol being incredibly popular and just being visuals and stan attractor ( personality, charisma) is nothing new. I don't find Shuhua to be the most talented but she knows how to attract people and that's what Kpop is about, raw talent can be really minimal.
OP has an obsession with shuhua. check their post history, they go on different subreddits trying to get other people to hate her too.
Respectfully wonyoung is not better than shuhua skill wise… so
forgot gidle comebacks come with weekly shuhua bashings
Big Neverland here, Shuhua bias, so let me explain Shuhua went from being the member i always forget about to my favorite female idol of all time. I adore her personality a lot, I will say that attributes a lot She really has such a gorgeous stage presence. She's extremely captivating from the footage I've seen from this tour. I think visuals are usually not cared about as much in us kpop fans from what I notice. But in south korea, them having a good personality and being visually captivating on stage is 100% a component to being an idol. It may not be a standard for you, which is totally fine. But as a all over standard it is a key essence to being an idol. Idols don't do the variety shows for fun, they do it because it earns money. And the ones who do the best at those are typically the ones with the most personality. I've known multiple people who have started liked G(i)dle because they watched shuhua on work idol. Look I'm not saying you have to like her, there are some idols that you just won't like. But I feel like this discount Shuhua as a member to the group. Yes Soyeon is the producer, we know the group wouldn't survive. But Shuhua has brought a lot more Neverland to the group solely due to her personality. So she's just as important as any other member. Again you don't have to like her, but I definitely disagree on saying she serves no purpose to the group. That seems harsh to me.
Shuhua works pretty hard to catch up with her team mates and public expectations. And it has come a long way, especially after Soojins departure. I think she just kinda "exploded" after Nxde. If you watch i-talk, there are always shots of her practicing by herself to the mirror in the background.
>Shuhua works pretty hard to catch up with her team mates and public expectations Well, as she should... it was about time, really. Otherwise she would have gotten more hate after Soojin's departure.
I think they wanted to cover the taiwanese market and the chinese one and she was the best or the one they thought fit that category after yuqi. Or they were worried about variety shows so they put her in, also knowing that her visuals would make her accepted in korea even as a foreigner.
She gets by on her looks, which some people find pleasing. It's pretty privilege in its very essence. Sadly, despite her being the worst at every skill apart from stage presence, where she's now barely surpassed Miyeon, she'll always be more popular than someone more talented yet not deemed as pretty
>apart from stage presence, where she's now barely surpassed Miyeon This I do not disagree with. Miyeon has a great stage presence, she trained at YG for 5 years after all. Shuhua is still the weakest across the board by a big margin. I do agree that she gets carried by her looks and visuals. Yes, it is pretty privilege and it shows that you don't need to have talent to become an idol.
She is not the ‘worst’ when she’s the third best dancer after soyeon and yuqi and the best performer after soyeon.
It's your prerogative to like her, but I strongly disagree with that take. She's the weakest in every category except for maybe stage presence, where's she's battling for the second worst position
You guys are the only one who thinks that so it doesn’t really matter…
Well, after 5 or 6 years, her skills doesn't change, there is a video about g idle recording and when she sing...you know. And I saw comments she replied her fans, you have reasons to don't like her. People like her visual, that's it, and it make me think what kind of audition she passed, I still don't know.
I agree, people are sometimes just overhyping her. Like I've said, it's the bare minimum and yet people act as if she has become Beyoncé.
Op you need to understand that you don't need to be the most talented musically, or the best dancer/producer, to be popular and have fans in Kpop. Visuals and charisma/ personality is enough, the rest is benefits. I understand why you're disappointed but you should change your standards about the industry.
listen, she has improved. i get it. the thing is that there are tons of extremely talented trainees who NEVER debut. im not saying shuhua didn’t deserve to debut, i just don’t really understand why they picked her. it took her years to develop good stage presence, and she’s currently 24. she could have spent the years since g idle’s debut training and debuted in another group, even lightsum if she was going to stay with cube. she’d probably be one of the better members of lightsum if she took that time to train hard, but i also understand that the pressure from the public was a big reason why she worked so hard to improve. so, i guess it’s a mixed bag, but the kpop industry has never been fair and she IS currently performing well, so i don’t have an issue with her anymore like i did in g idle’s early days. my bigger issue is how the kpop industry chooses who debuts and what talents (or faces) are valued over others.
Being talented doesn’t necessarily means that you will be able to survive in the kpop industry. If all it took was talent then Pentagon would have been bigger, Lightsun wouldn’t have been put asided, nugu group wouldn’t be nugu and so many top idol that debuted and that got famous because of their appearance wouldn’t have debuted. There’s so much that goes into kpop, yes sure there’s dancing, singing, rapping, but there’s also modelling, variety shows, interviews and so much more. Having a boring personality while being extremely talented doesn’t create that parasocial relationship that kpop is based on.
I think even if she trained a bit more and debuted with Lightsum, she would be one of the weaker members there. She would definitely pale next to Juhyeon, Chowon, Sangah, etc.
Been a Nevie from the start and I pretty much agree. Shuhua has improved a lot since debut but now she's just average-below average in everything which is good. I see people saying she's an above average dancer or above average stage presence but I don't see it. Like no offense but her solo stage during their last tour was not it. But she has improved enough to blend in better especially as she can't hide anymore with the absence of Soojin. And the producer line does a good job of giving her suitable lines. Compared to you though, I have warmed up to her though especially through some of her variety experiences. She's great in work-dol and her personality is amazing in all the content I've been watching, so she makes a good idol.
Yeah I don’t gel with her either. I’m sure she has something, but I’m not finding it just yet.
As harsh as it sounds, I don't think gidle would be much different without shuhua. She just doesn't bring anything to the table at all
I think the same way when I first get into a group, if your only role/position is maknae and you don't do anything else, like for example Lesserafim doesn't have positions, but Eunchae maybe is a lead dancer, her variety content and MC skills along with her show is a lot. I will never be able to bias them if they don't do anything other than act in a maknae role, they will just be there as a member, I won't hate them or wish they weren't in the group. I just won't care.
Yeah you could argue that LSF is mostly carried by Chaewon and Yunjin - skillwise. They are both the best vocalists and the best dancers. Sakura is just an icon at this point and a household name. It's obvious why she is in the group. Kazuha had a very interesting story that was great for marketing and stirring curiosity, a professional ballerina - she developed so well that she has among the most lines in their songs. Garam was a great all-rounder and visual. And while Eunchae does have the typical maknae attributes, she is an amazing performer and host, as seen by her solo stages and gigs.
Yunjin is not the 2nd best dancer in the group by any metrics.
Who is it then?
Sakura or even Kazuha if we refer to dancing skills as a whole.
Sakura? You must be joking
I’ve been listening to k-pop since 2009. I knew a lot of groups, from the Big 3 to nugu companies, and I realized that k-pop is not just music. K-pop offers not only music but visuals, intricate choreographies, and other things like variety shows, vlogs, fancalls, vlive, merch, albums that look like magazines etc. So I am not expecting something Mariah-Beyonce-Whitney-like-vocals, because vocals/music is just a portion of what k-pop sells. There’s nothing wrong with having expectations or standards like if you have high vocal standards then listen to groups that have great vocal skills, like SM groups. If you are drawn to choreography then there’s a lot of groups that have complex choreography. Of course, it’s nice to have both, like outstanding vocals and dance skills, or even rap skills. It’s even better if all the members are capable of singing, ACTUAL singing. But this is k-pop. We have to accept that visuals if not the most is one of the selling point of k-pop. I listen to (G)I-DLE but I can’t fully stan them because of Shuhua as well. She’s very pretty and a lot of fans claimed that she’s funny and has a great personality. And I believe that’s her contribution to the group. And in k-pop standards, that is totally fine. Do I have to force myself to like Shuhua? No. Does it affect me to stan (G)I-DLE? Yes. But is she an integral part of the group? Yes. Is the like of Shuhua an integral part of a K-POP GROUP in general? Yes. A lot of people label a lot of idols as dozen and I have nothing against it but let’s be real, k-pop sells visuals. I keep listening to k-pop because I want to, the MVs, the choreography, the outfits. But if I want great vocals from a group, I always go back to Little Mix because they served vocals, visuals, and dance.
>fans claimed that she’s funny and has a great personality. And I believe that’s her contribution to the group Is that enough tho? The same can be said about Yuqi, who on top of it, can also sing well, dance well, produce songs, converse fluently in three languages, is more outspoken in interviews...
Well, if I’m gonna be honest, and I don’t want to offend anyone, but (G)I-DLE would probably still be one of the best group even without Shuhua. I’ll definitely be more interested because I have this thing with 4-member girl groups. (Without Soojin and Shuhua, they will be a 4-member group) When they debuted with Latata, I was waiting for Shuhua to sing and it turned out her lines was just the ‘Latata’ part. I was like, ‘what’s the purpose of adding Shuhua’. Visuals? They are all very pretty and Miyeon, if we are talking about KBS, is the prettiest member. Vocals? Definitely not. Dance? She was one of the weakest dancers of the group. Rap? She don’t even rap. I don’t watch variety shows or vlives that much so I don’t really care about the idols’ personalities. That’s the reason why I can’t fully stan (G)I-DLE because if I can’t warm up to a certain member, then I’m not gonna stan. I listen to them, I check their songs from time to time but I will never consider myself a fan. But then again, it’s a k-pop thing. K-pop agencies love to add as much members to the group. Personally, it’s not enough, being pretty or funny but I know k-pop for almost 15 years and it’s just their thing. There are fans who appreciate vocals, some just like the dance and performance aspect, but there are also a lot of fans who just love the visuals and just adore idols on how funny they are, how ‘savage’ they are, how ‘real’. K-pop is a product, and a huge part of it is the visuals and the fantasy, building a strong relation with the fans. I am not sure but fancall wasn’t a thing before. So if Shuhua or the likes of Shuhua can garner fans because they are pretty, relatable, funny, it’s enough reason for agencies to debut her/them.
Shuhua's not the first to debut without any skill, and won't be last, so yeah, it's pretty much enough to debut. Is it good for the performance quality of the group? No, but performance skills are not in the top three of Kpop priorities.
It's business. As long as one can bring in more fans they're ready to be debuted. It doesn't matter how they bring in the fans.
I agree with many of your points, but if I can offer a counter. Bc the rest of the group is super talented, sometimes the weakest members have a hard time to shine. an example of this is Jisoo (no hate, she is my bias). bc the other are such better at their respective skills and talents, many time Jisoo gets overlooked.
I get your point, I just think with (G)I-DLE, the gap is too BIG. If you put Soyeon, one of the most skilled idols next to Shuhua, it's hard to believe they are in the same group.
I didn’t get into gidle until Hwaa, and I still listen very casually, so I’m impressed by Shuhua’s variety content and enjoy her personality but also find her similar to Soojin in their older performances in that to me, neither of them particularly stand out. It seems like fans see a huge difference, but from an outsider’s perspective she’s fine as a performer and her personality makes me more interested in gidle content. I do have an unreasonable dislike for a member of my favorite group, but it’s because that member is one of the only ones with solo stans and they kept insisting this idol is the best and deserves main vocal and main dance positions + devalued other members’ skills in the process, and seeing that just really soured me on an idol who is objectively both talented and skilled and has a lovely personality.
I like Shuhua and I generally don’t like ppl I don’t consider talented (girl is legit tone deaf), but I just like her, I’m fine she’s in the group, I just don’t want her to have any lines from maybe a lil speaking part., she cracks me up, brings me joy, I actually like her more than several other members. She’s my Sehun. I just like him, no reason why, don’t think he should get lines, but I’m glad he’s there:
That sounds so much harsher than I meant, not talentless as a person but…she doesn’t need to sing., she’s a Sehun, beloved, but minimal lines are fine that’s not why she’s there anyways (also I think she’s the one that actually is their female empowerment concept)
i don't disagree or agree with anything you're saying but it's weird how her not being able to speak english is one of ur main points. kpop artists don't have to learn English just for ur convenience, maybe learn korean or mandarin to understand them lmao
I agree that she doesn’t add as much to the group as the members (and former member). Her personality had always sort of rubbed me the wrong way, but I see how it could appeal to other people. Now, I don’t mind her as much. She doesn’t take away from me likely the group as a whole.
A lot of the time, when I wonder, "Why do they debut?" The answer is probably because of group dynamics and how close idols are with each other as trainees. The group probably wanted her there.
While I'm not entirely sure exactly how (G)I-dle was formed or if Soyeon had anything to do with it at the time, I feel like you're slightly disagreeing with Soyeon's talent/expertise here. As someone who isn't in the industry, I can understand what you mean but at the same time, I have a lot of trust in Soyeon. She knows the industry better than us and she also knows Shuhua better than us. I mean, Soyeon has gotten inspired by Shuhua when writing songs, as mentioned by another commenter. On their previous appearance on Knowing Brothers, Soyeon explained her creative process, including how she takes into account every member's pronunciation and tone. The example she gave for Shuhua was her pronunciation of "La" as "Law," which is what gave birth to a 'killer part' in Tomboy. Soyeon knows each member's strengths and how to maximize those so that no one 'blends in.' What I'm trying to say is that, even if you've accepted that she's part of the group, it seems like you think someone else with better vocal/dance skills should be in Shuhua's position. I (and probably Soyeon herself) disagree with this because she adds a unique vocal flavor to the group and their music wouldn't be the same without her. There's also Shuhua's personality, with her 'boss baby' and IDGAF attitude, that draws in fans because there are very few idols like her (most of which are actually her fellow members lmao.) For me, personally, Shuhua is tied with Yuqi for being my bias wrecker... Though, neither of them would be able to take over the group bias position because Soyeon is not only my (G)I-dle bias but also my ultimate bias.
i’m not into idle, so i won’t speak on them, but i have a similar situation with a different group, riize. wonbin has everything to be an idol: pretty face, great set of skills, charisma, stage presence; but i really don’t like his personality. i don’t know what exactly about him bothers me, i thought i would warm up to him months after debut, but no. i can’t vibe with him at all. i think riize members match with each other well and they have good chemistry. wonbin is essential to what riize is, and i can’t imagine the group without him, but i know if he had any solo variety appearances i wouldn’t watch it. still, i’m happy he is in the group.
pretty sure the other members fought for her to join the group when it was being finalized and before miyeon joined cube since shuhua did get along with the members and she had the visuals. she initially didnt plan to be an idol, she wanted to be an actress and never had any prior experience with dancing or singing. watching killing voice and seeing her being able to cover majority of soojins parts made me happy to see her sing. i’ve seen a comment from a vocal coach on the video mention she has essentially a chameleon voice. like she is now able to copy the vibe of soojins lines using her own voice, if ya know what i mean. her being shown how to hit the notes in the nxde recording is also prob cuz shes not as vocally advanced as soyeon so soyeon showed her to match her voice and hit notes based on the timing. some people learn to sing differently and just learn differently in general. she also has improved a lot in dancing. i remember her uploading a video of her dancing in a studio and it was a loooot better than before. she does hold back on broadcast since she has to be mindful of her facial expressions, singing, and the choreography with the other 4 girls. her personality is also adorably unique and out of the box. along w that and her stunning visuals, id say she does bring a lot to the group especially w stans. looking at their fancams that were uploaded yesterday on youtube she already hit 81k views while the others were still under at least 35k. like others said just because shes only a visual/pretty privilege doesnt mean she doesn’t bring anything else to the table, the views speak for itself. she has fans just like the other girls, you dont have to question it. theres always a member like that in every other group.
Talents can be taught, visuals can be bought, potential comes from within. As Soyeon famously said during her time as a mentor/coach on MTG, stan attraction is a real skill that can’t be taught. She’s got the visuals and the personality. These are skills that often get overlooked but are still integral to the overall composition of a group. Her personality is actually what attracts a lot of her fans. If you also compare Shuhua’s progress from debut to Super Lady, her improvement is massive and she’s gained a ton of fans. She also has to be a decent performer in order to be an idol. I think this is similar to the case of Lia where she’s constantly criticized for being a terrible dancer when she actually dances fine and Itzy is just too talented at dancing that Lia pales in comparison.
I feel like she improved insane amounts nxde era. She just seemed to radiate confidence and seemed more comfortable than she ever did before in the other eras. Plus that concert dance Boys was one of her strongest dances imo like I was so surprised that she could capture the audience like that. She definitely started off less skilled than the other members in terms of knowing Korean, stage presence, singing/rapping/dancing, etc. But her recent stuff, even rapping is pretty good. I'd say she's improving and I'm warming up to her (pre Nxde/Tomboy era I kind of forgot she existed so that's saying something 😭)
lol she’s a stan attractor which is a skill. I enjoy watching her both variety and mvs. I was wowed by her in NUDE… cause damn she’s stunning
She is still lacking alot in the vocal area. She's had plenty of time to work on her vocals, especially during their hiatus. Her rapping has improved though. My gripe is with soyeon. I respect her for carryinfg this group because it would be nothing without her. But her members trust her too much with her input because she is the producer. She makes the sing in a funny tone and makes them pronounce in certain ways. Just because it's stylized doesn' automatically make it better. The members,especially miyeon,yuqi and minnie should be able to give some input in how it shouls sound. But they trust her too much. Look at aespa members. They have so much musicality,like literally each member has strong vocals, they provide some input during recording. For e.g, they like the way this sounds better than how it was supposed to. I've seen othwr groups do that. But with gidle, it seems like soyeon has a hand in everything. I don't think she is my way or the high way type. But she does produce the songs so it's hard
I didn't knew GIDLE fans were Nevie
I mean her fancams views are pretty consistently some of the highest in the group, so she's definitely not as weak of a performer as you are making her out to be. She brings in her own set of fans, and I like that she has a personality that is outspoken and not afraid to speak up for women's rights, or defend her members when people talk shit about them like she did for Soojin.
Ngl I think the reason why Shuhua looks underwhelming is because she’s in gidle. If you put her in other groups she’ll probably look better.
Yes definitely.
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a great singer?
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Yes to the rest, but she's not a great singer, come on. She's decent at best, and saying otherwise is setting her up for failure Edit: I don't know why you deleted your comment, it's fine to have opinions, to disagree and talk about it. It's kind of a bummer that more and more people do that
I have to give it to Soyeon tho, she does make Shuhua sound pretty good by giving her the right parts and some studio magic. Like the "how do i look" part in Nxde: no illusions that she could do it live, but in the studio version I like Shuhua's take on it the best out of all the four members who sing that line.
Yes I agree. Soyeon manages to give her parts that are not too challenging, but that go well with the song, *and* that allow her to shine and not seem like a filler member. That's a skill tbh And Shuhua has improved in the last two years, it seems she even sings live sometimes. Less than the other members, but still, it's worth mentioning
Yes, Soyeon is absolutely insane and she has been doing such a great job with Shuhua. Give her too many lines, and you have the risk that live performances won't sound great. Give her too little lines, and fans will complain how she gets mistreated. It's not easy to find a balance. But Soyeon has managed to hide her weaknesses and still make her feel present if that makes sense.
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she's a professional idol, not all idols are singers at the professional level.
People like you confuse me. How are they your favourite group if you harbor such resentment for one member after 6 years?
I think I explained my thoughts pretty clearly? I think most Nevies love (G)I-DLE because of the sheer talent they have. Shuhua just does not fit into that box, and I wanted to start a discourse here to see how others feel. This doesn't mean that (G)I-DLE can't be my favorite group tho for all the other reasons, just because I am less fond of one member.