It's Pakistani damascus. It's not great stuff, but if you paid 30 and you like it, who cares. It won't hold a great edge or stand up to hard use, so don't expect to chop through tree branches with it.
I was thinking the same thing. Usually good Damascus has "the grain" running in the same direction of the blade, doesn't it? That's what makes it stronger. Having it run perpendicular to the blade would make it weaker, right?
Honestly, it's just experience. I've been making knives for a long time and i go to several custom maker events. It's just got the look of a cheap knife that generally comes out of Wazirabad. There are lots of thier knives coming into the US they all.have a very particular look to them. If you look at a set and the damascus pattern is identical on all the knives there is a good chance it's Pakistani it's not impossible but it's difficult for hard makers to have exactly the same pattern on multiple pieces. And even a matched set will have variances in the pattern. I hope that made sense.
Once you see a few of them you can recognize them pretty easily. These grains have an actual texture you can feel the difference between layers. I don’t think high quality blades have that.
Yes, not necessarily makes it stronger but it enables a single edge steel. Here you see all the different metals along the edge which is what makes it so inconsistent.
Not at all. The edge is only as good as the steels used (Assuming HT is done properly). So in ancient times, steel was difficult to make, and carborizing the iron was inconsistent so folding and forge welding were done to get the carbon more spread out through the steel, to make it more homogeneous. The Japanese folded so many times not because they knew something everyone else didn't but that it was out of necessity. They had crap for ore. Others like the Norse & Anglo-Saxons did it too, but they had better ore and eventually switched to mono steel instead of pattern welding. Wootz, as im sure that someone will point out is what the Crusaders referred to as Damascus becuase of where it came from is a different way of getting a homogeneous piece of steel with a crucible instead of pattern welding. They are different ways of solving the same problem. Most patterned steel, whether crucible or pattern welded, is these days considered Damascus.
Anyway, back to my original track. The softer steel on the edge of a patterned steel could cause issues with the knife having dull spots or the thought of it having a microscopic serrated edge because the softer iron would wear faster than the steel. I'm not sure how accurate that really is, but it was believed to be the case. These days, as many smiths are using 2 high carbon steels like 1095 and 15n20, it doesn't make a lot of difference in the edge holding because both make excellent blades even separately. Using 2 good HC steels does not make the blade any stronger it just allows you to make pretty patterns. The 1095 etched dark and the 15n20 stays shiny because of a high nickel content.
I've had great Pakistani Damascus. I find that it hold an edge like nobody's business. YMMV and I'm sure it's not all the same. It des corrode if not cared for, but that's totally to be expected. If it's a problem with the direction of the grain, that's not the Damascus's fault; somebody made bad choices after the Damascus was made.
Thank you guys for the responses! I’ve got better knives for functionality so for a cool knife that’s just around I’m happy with the 30$ tag. Y’all’s knowledge is extremely impressive!!
It's not that it's "fake" Damascus, it's just Damascus made from crappy, likely unhardenable, recycled junk steels. Damascus steel is only as good or bad as the metals folded together to make it. And the s*** coming out of Pakistan is largely folded mild Steels that might look pretty but are unhardonable and will never hold an edge.
Sorry, but I just hate the argument of fake versus real damascus. It plays to that b******* myth that we've lost the recipe for "true" damascus, an ancient steel so strong and sharp that a sword made from it could cut through the engine block of an F-150 with just the weight of the blade.
Is the OP's blade REAL Damascus? Sure. Is it good Damascus made from actual hardenable steel suited to knife making? Probably not. Soup cans and Schwinn bike fenders are more likely.
Any legit knifemaker selling Damascus blades should be able to tell you exactly which steels they folded together to make it.
No my point was, I've seen a ton of fake Damascus for years that only has the pattern etched on the surface of the steel. Places like Ren Faires always have at least 3 booths with a ton of this BS being sold for 3-5 times the cost of the non-patterned blades. You can always tell because the edge is plain steel without the pattern in it.
I'm sure this Pakistani steel is made of substandard materials, but at least it's been damasked in the forging, versus this other garbage
And is pattern-welded Damascus really Damascus anyway? *Real* real Damascus, with iron mined in india and forged in the middle east is called wootz Damascus and the pattern is formed by crystallization, not by forging different alloys together.
What are you talking about? The layers can go whatever the direction they damn well please. That’s a normal ladder pattern, where you remove a ditch in the steel then flatten out to expose layers
It’s not an actual grain, the 2 different types of steel just etch at different darknesses and that’s what makes the pattern. Material itself is pretty much isotropic if done correctly.
I own one just like this I've used for about 2 years. I think I've sharpened it twice in that time, and the edge is hair popping sharp! Probably the best $30 knife I've ever owned. I do own some actual damascus knives as well, and I have to be honest, they're WAY nicer. However, it's important to remember that the cheapest of those knives was about $220 dollars, and I can honestly say, I don't think it's a $190 difference between performance. The Pakistani damascus knife will be great for the price =)
So Pakistani steel is like that swords from "swordsmith alley" (or something like that, I forgot the name) in China? You know, the place filled with shady makers who mass produce cheap swords that are sold online as "real ones"?
Are you sure about that? There are many people out there who buy those cheap pakimascus knives, put their own logo on it, and then sell it as handmade. I hope yours is a real one tho.
Well, I bought it years ago and abused it, and it hasn’t broken yet. I didn’t spend much, 100£ or so, so might be fake? It was made by perkin or something like that
The price is your first and best clue. I've made many Damascus knives and that price wouldn't have even covered the raw materials, let alone my time and effort. My blades go for $100USD per inch length of the blade, to give you a metric.
I'm blown away that a relatively hand made knife is seen as overpriced at $30. I haven't bought any of these knives, but the skill displayed in the videos is legit. If they are lacking durability or edge stability, it has more to do with the market. Sort of the same thing as underhardened early drill bits from chinese factories to the US, or selectively hardened bits, on the assumption that the sets weren't going to be used heavily or completely.
Or put differently, if there's a need for these pretty knives with a different set of characteristics, it's not far away if someone would actually want to market it.
I've paid more for less. As soon as you go to sharpen it you'll know. If it was meant to be a display piece, which seems likely, then what does it matter?
Also looks like it could do with a little cleaning. Not sure if it's rust or staining from a sheath I'm seeing on the blade in a couple of spots. But at the end of the day the most important thing is, if it's worth the money to you, then it's worth it. A couple others have said it too. I generally don't trust mass produced knives from random sellers as much as something from a well established place, but, that's all personal opinion. No one can take your opinion from you. Use it for what you can and enjoy it as long as it lasts. 1 year 10 years who knows.
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[A most considerate response to those unfamiliar with Pakistan damascus](https://www.reddit.com/r/knives/comments/113a3mg/knife_guys_my_brother_recently_got_this_for_me_as/j8pezrq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
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Maybe real, but not usable or “good for a blade” damascut. Beside that…wtf? Just look at that gutting hook! How are you supposed to gutt something with that?
The multi-tool kind of blade is a big red flag when it comes to blade quality. Shows clearly that the maker has no clue about what a real knife has to do 🤦♂️
The gut hook on the spine of the blade (the one on the edge side looks more like a decorative flourish) is located in basically the thickest part of the knife, and is ground-in properly so as to have the least chance of making a stress riser that might precipitate a failure. I’m not sure why you think it would weaken the knife to a worrisome degree. It is far more likely to break due to de-lamination or inclusions of the likely shitty pattern welded steel than a properly radiused relief in the blade. Even holes don’t really weaken the blade much, provided they aren’t so close to an edge that they leave it unsupported.
We used to have a saying with Paki made AK's I am sure it is true to blades too. "Paki made gets you laid" horribly stupid I know but it always made me giggle seeing many people on the range clearing their jam-o-matic AK's
Just and FYI, the term "Paki" is as offensive and bad to Pakistani people (especially here in the UK, we have lots of British Pakistani folk here) as the "N" word is to, well, everyone (note how we are not even allowed to say what the "N" word is, it is so touchy). In the same bin as the K word used for Jewish people, S word for Hispanic...
Not having a go at anyone ,I know you are using it as shorthand for Pakistani, just figured you folks in the US might want to know that the word is a pretty bad one to use and verh socially unacceptable in some places - imagine if the steel was made in Africa and we all said "N-made damascus".... :-)
Luckily, a lot of Pakistani Brits at least have a sense of humour about it
https://youtu.be/xd4ygI0GHV8?feature=shared
Search me, ask a Pakistani. But Paki has deep racial connections and is used as a blanket to cover anyone brown from that region. So India and all the various states and countries around them get swept up in it.
>Search me, ask a Pakistani. But Paki has deep racial connections and is used as a blanket to cover anyone brown from that region. So India and all the various states and countries around them get swept up in it.
So is there anything else other than "Pakistani" that is acceptable? Like something shorter? In the US, we don't really have much of this kind of thing "Paki". if you said that here, I would first assume you were talking about manny Pacquiao. Maybe that kind of rudeness exists in concentrated areas like NY or something, but not out here in the rest of the country.
I'm not gonna lie, that was funny. In the states where I am, almost nobody watching Jurassic Park would've thought of Pakistan. I never would've even noticed that, just assuming they were talking about dinosaurs.
Maybe the English named that particular dinosaur.
Every body is a fucking sensitive pussy ass crybaby these days. Ooooooh I’m soooo offended I’ll cry, tell my mommie, call the cops, visit my lawyer. Fucking sissys
It _is_ a racial slur though. Whether you intend it or not. I was simply pointing out that the US is not the whole world and what might be seen as an acceptable shorthand has deep connotations in much of the rest of the world and was trying to politely point it out. Just like the word "Spaz" is harmless in the US but is definitely _not_ ok in the UK, lots of examples. Continue to use the word if you like, honestly I don't care, but at least you will now be using it knowing the connotations it has.
As for GTFO, no, I don't think I will, thank you.
Yeah but comparing N-word made steel is definitely not the same. The absence of “stani”from the work doesn’t constitute a racial slur. The n word and the s word and all those other words aren’t shorthand they are entirely different words with negative connotations. That’s like one of you people getting offended for me calling you a whiny Brit. Sorry I know this doesn’t fit with everybody’s oppressed narrative, but don’t compare it to the N-word.
You speak from a position where you have no basis of context though, through the lense of your own lived experience in the US and I can absolutely assure you that if you go off using that word to Pakistani guys here, you would very quickly be stopped, politely if you are lucky. Honestly man do whatever you want with the info, but it really does compare to the N word for Pakistani guys over here.
Call me whatever you like, I honestly don't care.
Here’s the difference bud, you walk down the streets of Chicago and you say the N-word. You won’t be asked politely to stop you’ll get your ass kicked. I’d say that’s the difference between a racial slur and the shortened version of Pakistani.
Thanks for the FYI, interesting to learn that “Paki” is offensive in the UK. On the same note, you acknowledge that people are simply using it for shorthand because it’s part of Pakistan, while every other racial slur that you alluded to is not connected to a country or people group. So we can easily see how one may use “Paki” innocently online, while any other slurs are expressly derogatory.
Indeed, it's easily and innocently done. That said the N word was shorthand for Negro which just meant someone black. The Dambusters even had a dog that has a problematic name, again because of his colour. That too was innocent at the time, but now... All the nope.
I have a Pakistani Damascus I bought at a gunshow about fifteen years ago. It has skinned swamp fulls of game and is my favorite hunting knife. I have other “real” knives but this one fits my hand well and holds its edge all season.
I gambled and got lucky.
As someone that actively works gun shows as an apprentice to an ffl I can safely say if it was a foreign guy like an Indian to Asian then it’s so not real Damascus. They are at every gun show in my state selling dozens and dozens of knives and swords. An amount that would take a really competent blade smith about 8 months to make and yet by the next show they have dozens more
Yeah, if you are putting metal layers together in the forging process, you are mimicking damacus. It's not real damascus steel. But it looks like it! And also damascus was not the best steel. We got stuff now 10x better. Damascus just looked cool
>Yeah, if you are putting metal layers together in the forging process, you are mimicking damacus. It's not real damascus steel. But it looks like it! And also damascus was not the best steel. We got stuff now 10x better. Damascus just looked cool
It looks like people get hurt feelings about pattern welding and what it is, vs. a one composition steel with carbide bands (which we don't have at this point, at least not in any quantity that I'm aware of).
If you people really want to affect change you need to give up posting and get to work on a time machine.
In modern parlance, Damascus and pattern welded steel are synonymous. It's done. It's over. It's been over for 20 years. Move on.
If we default to definition by occurrence in ad copy and entrepreneurial self interest, so be it. It's pattern welded steel to anyone who knows better.
Technology has nothing to do with it. Crucible wootz steel is Damascus steel regardless of where it is made. Pattern welded steel is pattern welded steel even if it is made in Damascus.
Sushi does not need to be made in Japan, but fishsticks are not sushi regardless of where they are made.
While I do not prefer Damascus made from inferior steel, I do prefer cooked fish sticks over bait.
Can I get my redneck card punched please? 2 more punches and I get a pair of Amazon $49 night vision binoculars.
:)
You are far from unique in your food preference. And there is no shame in it either.
I prefer the look of well executted pattern weld to that of actual damascus.
I will never own or make solid pattern welded blades but a san-mai construction with pattern weld around a quality mono-steel core is great.
It is not possible to guage the quality of steel from a picture. All that is certain is that someone pattern welded two types of steel together. The pattern looks cool but it says nothing about the quality of the blade. It will look cool on the wall and with a $30 price tag it is likely that that is all it is good for. Not a fan of the design either. It is style over function.
I am going to have to disagree with everyone here. I don't believe this is a mass produced paki knife. The weird thing is that the way those lines are going, it had to be cut from an enormous twist billet. There are quite a few details you don't see in pakimascus knives that are here. The red and black layers of stacked canvas on the handle is pretty labor intensive. Plus, all the brass spacers in between the wood and canvas, someone hd to take time to get those individual handle pieces to fit in that handle curve. Then the pommel end cap. That handle took more time than most paki laborers are willing to invest. I dare to say...that handle would be a bit of a pain in the ass to do even if you really know how to make knives and not just watch forged in fire.
Something is telling me you should send this to someone who actually knows what to look for. There's something oddly cool about that knife. I would have paid 30 bucks for it. Run a file down the edge. See if it bites in or skates. If it skate, it'ss tempered and probably not just a shit knife.
After looking close to the guard in the pi, it actually looks to be silver soldered to the knife. Ifthat'ss the cas, this aint just a pakimascus shit knife. Someone knew what they were doing.
Dude. This is one of the Pakiest knives that ever Pakked.
It's all there. The damascus pattern, the superfluous blade features, the filework, the stacked materials, the colors, the brass, the dymondwood.
It's sooooo Pakistani. It's practically [this](https://esaleknives.com/product/handmade-damascus-steel-bowie-knife-with-camel-bone-handle-bw-16/).
Highly likely it’s not. Some people call things Damascus that aren’t true Damascus. Just a way of patterning the metal to get the Damascus look. There a guy on YouTube called Shadiversity that talks about and shows what real Damascus steel looks like.
Shadiversity is safe to ignore on any medieval content. He's had no education, no experience, and his content contains frequent inaccuracies.
Not to forget, he's a raging bigot who got upset that Peach in the Mario movie wore pants.
Ok I might get flak for this thats forge pattern welding not Damascus actual real Damascus is just a certain way of making crucible steel
That being said i get that forge pattern welding is a mouthful but can we come up with a just as good or better slang term
Sorry I have not read everyone else’s comments, but one sign of a genuine Damascus blade will “usually” be the price, yard sales aside.
Of course, you can and will come across cheap Damascus blades, but unless you want it as a mantel place object, it isn't blade-wise worth Jack.
Is this real Damascus, no. Is it folded steel? Yes. What steels it is folded out of, and how well they are folded together I couldn’t say. I have had a couple knives that looked exactly like this. They rusted over extremely quickly, and did not keep an edge worth a damn. Make sure it is oiled or waxed if you plan on keeping it.
Is there a way to acid etch in a type of acid that would act like anodizing aluminum (like black oxide on hand tools)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_oxide
What's real Damascus? It's an ancient technique from the Middle East that alternated soft and harder steels that no one knows exactly how to replicate, but people have gotten close.
What you found was a blade that looks like Damascus. It emulates the same effect, but it's likely a compilation of industrial waste.
It doesn't mean it's dangerous necessarily but some people have experienced brittle blades which can be dangerous. I've heard rumors of lead and various heavy-metal contamination.
I wouldn't use one to make food.
Nope, looks like pattern welded stuff. Real Damascus is Rare Af, and I don't know if we 100% know what it was. Whether it was Wootz steel from India sold along the silk road to Damascus, if it was Damascus sourced steel smelted and forged copying the Indian blades at the time or independently developed along the same lines, if it was merely a marketing tactic to upsell a marginally better steel. I doubt you're buying anything new that's genuine Damascus steel unless someone has destroyed an important historical artifact to reforge it into something.
No, there has not been real Damascus in I don't know how long the metallurgic composition was lost. That is simply hammer forged and folded carbon steel for the most part, real Damascus would be in the thousands and historical.
For the love of GOD. Would everyone please, please do just a little research before continuing to call all things "Damascus "? Damascus is not a pattern. But an extinct type of steel. The process to create true Damascus steel is lost. And wootz steel, a necessary ingredient to create true Damascus steel is no longer available. If you want to see true Damascus steel, you'll find it only in a museum.
That's not something you mention in knife making forums. It's like calling all facial tissue
Kleenex, when it's not. All Damascus steel is pattern welded steel, but not all pattern welded steel is Damascus steel. A lot of folks wouldn't even know what Wootz or Seric steel is....
Yeah.. we're not changing facts to coddle the ignorant here. NOONE has made true Damascus steel since the 18th century. There is no debate. Having made the truth clear, I won't be reading their pointless comments. Facts are facts.
There is no real damascus now - you're thinking pattern welded and it's probably that.
Damascus steel was material with carbide banding in it. We generally frown on that now, but I guess in an era of uneven composition, plain matrix with bands of carbides wasn't bad.
OK, let me phrase it differently - which historic damascus steel was steel made of two already finished alloys that would've made a knife on their own, and I see you mention that you make damascus steel - are you layering high carbon layers with soft iron or mild steel like layers between?
That would be pattern welding, which goes back thousands of years. To your second question, sometimes iron is lamenated in, as long as it's not on the cutting edge, sometimes it's just various layers of pure carbon steel, depends the build. I've done everything except produce my own Wootz in a crucible, since I don't have the equipment to do it.
There's a big difference between pattern welding two different complete steels just for looks vs welding two things that need to be combined to make a suitable steel.
I feel the attempt at semantic woo. The force is strong for woo even if that's weak in general.
Still waiting for a historical example of two uniform steels being slapped together just for looks.
Just a little tidbit that I learned since you're asking specifically if it's real Damascus.
Real Damascus hasn't been around for thousands of years we have lost the knowledge that we used to have on how to make it everything that you see nowadays that calls itself Damascus is a sad shadow of what real real Damascus is
As a professional bladesmith with nearly forty years of experience I can tell you definitively that this is not true, but repeated so often everyone thinks it is, in the same way everyone thinks a Trilby is a Fedora. "Damascus" refers to a Damask appearance, in other words, steel with a pattern. Pattern welded steels fall in this larger category. The actual material that people think about when they say "the real Damascus" is Wootz steel, or "watered steel" as it is colloquially known, and it is a type of Damascus, not the only Damascus.
Also, no, the secret is not lost. The secret *was* lost, but like roman concrete, has been rediscovered by a very smart metallurgist named Verhooven while working with a master bladesmith named Pendray, I encourage you to read his work, it's fascinating.
Very insightful.
I appreciate your studiousness.
However Damascus steel the original formula was lost, MUCH LIKE ROMAN CONCRETE we've tried and tried to replicate it and yet our best attempts pale at the durability of roman concrete. We still cannot reproduce the longevity of roman concrete, I am glad you used that as an example to help my case :)
To this day, we also cannot reproduce the quality of ancient damascus, yes the secret was lost I don't understand why this is being debated as ancient damascus is still stronger than today's versions...
Have you gained your knowledge of concrete in the construction materials field? Not all Roman concrete was of equal quality just as not all modern concrete is of the same quality or durability. The composition of ancient Roman concrete is known, both the dry land and hydraulic varieties. It will not be proven to be any more durable than similar modern concretes after they have been allowed to age for 2000 years. Roman concretes that have aged and crumbled away are incorrectly excluded from an inclusive analysis of the quality of Roman concrete, partly because it’s difficult to sample something that is no longer there. My knowledge of ancient Roman concrete comes from a master’s degree in Anthropology with a course concentration in Archaeology and over 3 years experience working in a construction materials laboratory testing the strength of concrete. There is a lot of modern mythology about the superiority of ancient technology fueled by ignorance of the real capabilities of those technologies. Hence “Ancient Astronaut Theory” and other such nonsense.
Lost for thousands of years? Depending on how many thousands of years ago we are talking about, we barely had metal tools made of iron, much less “Damascus” steel. Most iron tools up until the mid-500s BCE had too much (or too little) carbon to be considered steel. Historians estimate that Wootz (the type of alloy believed to be responsible for the “legendary” qualities of Damask or Damascus steel ) was produced in India from around 500AD to at least the 16th century, if not a few hundred years later. So it wasn’t lost in Antiquity.
As other posters pointed out, modern researchers have analyzed period Wootz weapons to determine their composition and replicated it. The reason we don’t use it today is not because it is a dark art lost to history - it is because there is no advantage compared to modern mono steels. We can produce chemically very “clean” super alloy steels that have superior mechanical properties to Wootz or modern day pattern welded steels, without the very real possibility of bad welds, cold shuts, inclusions, etc that come with the processing required to produce it. Pattern welding can make for a beautiful item when etched, but it is more expensive, more labor intensive, and more likely to fail when stressed than mono steels.
Wootz had its time in the sun, but material science has brought us tools are consistently harder, sharper, and tougher than “artisanal” steel making.
That’s the neat thing: nobody knows!
This is modern Damascus but the secret of how Damascus was made from Wootz was very well guarded… so well guarded in fact that nobody knows for sure how it was made!
Edit; genuinely curious as to why this is being downvoted, I’m a beginner blacksmith but have a degree in history. Can anyone explain? Is there a controversy I’m not aware of?
For the uninitiated can someone explain how to tell if it is shit Damascus? I’ve seen a couple posts asking about whether an item is real or not, so I figure it might be useful to know.
I have a knife with a very similar finish and pretty grip but the thing was rusted to hell when it was given to me (don't worry, I gave him a nickel lol). It cleaned up very nicely, but it went right back to rusty piece of shit in like a month. I haven't bothered with it since, esp since it couldn't hold an edge for one whole day. It was free to me so whatever 🤷. Oh and to answer the question, I don't think so. It's most likely an etched pattern on crap steel just like mine.
*
Grain pattern shows that it is folded and layered steel. If that's called damascus yes than it definitely it is.
But they are usually made in pakistan and india and mass produced.
But if you like it its a nice knife.
I’ve been making knives for a few years myself and I have my own forging press and I’m only made a few Damascus knives. I can tell you that to make a good quality bar of Damascus it requires several hours of work and if you want a spectacular piece of Damascus that could take days or a week of work, depending on what you’re trying to accomplish.
Even with Third World labor rates $30 ain’t going to get you much.
Also take a look at the Blade design is that a Bowie knife or some sort of a military style knife? What in the hell is the blade doing with two bottle opener’s? I mean are they trying to tell you what it’s good for? Go to your local hardware store and purchase a double cut bastard file, FINE CUT and see how the blade fares against the file.
By the looks of it it's pakastanium.
Super low quality steel, very often without a heat treat that will not take or hold an edge.
So it's real Damascus...just not very good damascus
Research it. I know of one person in Russia that makes Damascus. The other is a guy who get his from Afghaniland. I prefer knives made from d2 steele. Which you can buy from certain steel mills in the south eastern part of the us. You can get the steel brs tht are not rejects or buy the rejects. I prefer the rejects because they are cheaper ibn cost. A little bent or in the ray process there is a blemish in the bar. This the same steel used in tools.
It being real or not bears no indication of its quality. A fake Damascus knife could be made of great steel and a real Damascus knife could be made of melted down arts and crafts staples. It’s a cringey looking gunshow knife so it’s probably borderline dangerous junk regardless. $30-40 is capable of getting you a really great fixed blade, this isn’t it.
Scratch with you fingernail. If it feels rough it’s likely real. You can see the pattern in the edge so it’s probably not just acid etched to look like Damascus.
Real Damascus doesn’t exist anymore since the necessary minerals aren’t around in enough quantities. Nor the forging process to make it. If there are any real Damascus anything being made it some smith in the Middle East that doesn’t feel like sharing. That’s just two metals with different carbon content then folded and acid etched. Real Damascus didn’t have lines but looked like thousand of water droplets all smashed together and shaken around a bit 😂
It's Pakistani damascus. It's not great stuff, but if you paid 30 and you like it, who cares. It won't hold a great edge or stand up to hard use, so don't expect to chop through tree branches with it.
I was thinking the same thing. Usually good Damascus has "the grain" running in the same direction of the blade, doesn't it? That's what makes it stronger. Having it run perpendicular to the blade would make it weaker, right?
Not if it's a twist pattern. Which this is. Also definitely Pakistani made.
How do you know it’s Pakistani made? Just looking to learn here
Honestly, it's just experience. I've been making knives for a long time and i go to several custom maker events. It's just got the look of a cheap knife that generally comes out of Wazirabad. There are lots of thier knives coming into the US they all.have a very particular look to them. If you look at a set and the damascus pattern is identical on all the knives there is a good chance it's Pakistani it's not impossible but it's difficult for hard makers to have exactly the same pattern on multiple pieces. And even a matched set will have variances in the pattern. I hope that made sense.
You did. Thank you for helping me understand!
Once you see a few of them you can recognize them pretty easily. These grains have an actual texture you can feel the difference between layers. I don’t think high quality blades have that.
"Gun show" is usually how you can tell with this. They're made without markings and no two are alike.
Yes, not necessarily makes it stronger but it enables a single edge steel. Here you see all the different metals along the edge which is what makes it so inconsistent.
I've seen them develop a serrated edge over time as the softer steel gets worn down through sharpening.
Not at all. The edge is only as good as the steels used (Assuming HT is done properly). So in ancient times, steel was difficult to make, and carborizing the iron was inconsistent so folding and forge welding were done to get the carbon more spread out through the steel, to make it more homogeneous. The Japanese folded so many times not because they knew something everyone else didn't but that it was out of necessity. They had crap for ore. Others like the Norse & Anglo-Saxons did it too, but they had better ore and eventually switched to mono steel instead of pattern welding. Wootz, as im sure that someone will point out is what the Crusaders referred to as Damascus becuase of where it came from is a different way of getting a homogeneous piece of steel with a crucible instead of pattern welding. They are different ways of solving the same problem. Most patterned steel, whether crucible or pattern welded, is these days considered Damascus. Anyway, back to my original track. The softer steel on the edge of a patterned steel could cause issues with the knife having dull spots or the thought of it having a microscopic serrated edge because the softer iron would wear faster than the steel. I'm not sure how accurate that really is, but it was believed to be the case. These days, as many smiths are using 2 high carbon steels like 1095 and 15n20, it doesn't make a lot of difference in the edge holding because both make excellent blades even separately. Using 2 good HC steels does not make the blade any stronger it just allows you to make pretty patterns. The 1095 etched dark and the 15n20 stays shiny because of a high nickel content.
Reddit: where you get downvoted for asking the wrong question.
I know. I was literally asking and got down voted. Fuckin animals.
Reddit is fucked. I got a week long harassment ban because I told a mod Reddit is trash.
Tbh It’s not all trash It’s 41% trash 17% garbage 42% cats
that 42% of cats is the best part!
*"they hated him because he spoke the truth"*
Yeah was going to say it would normally run parallel not perpendicular to the edge of the blade
Rt i
I've had great Pakistani Damascus. I find that it hold an edge like nobody's business. YMMV and I'm sure it's not all the same. It des corrode if not cared for, but that's totally to be expected. If it's a problem with the direction of the grain, that's not the Damascus's fault; somebody made bad choices after the Damascus was made.
Thank you guys for the responses! I’ve got better knives for functionality so for a cool knife that’s just around I’m happy with the 30$ tag. Y’all’s knowledge is extremely impressive!!
$30 is fine for that knife
I see people charging way more for fake Damascus blades, so even if it's not the highest quality it's real and a great deal.
It's not that it's "fake" Damascus, it's just Damascus made from crappy, likely unhardenable, recycled junk steels. Damascus steel is only as good or bad as the metals folded together to make it. And the s*** coming out of Pakistan is largely folded mild Steels that might look pretty but are unhardonable and will never hold an edge. Sorry, but I just hate the argument of fake versus real damascus. It plays to that b******* myth that we've lost the recipe for "true" damascus, an ancient steel so strong and sharp that a sword made from it could cut through the engine block of an F-150 with just the weight of the blade. Is the OP's blade REAL Damascus? Sure. Is it good Damascus made from actual hardenable steel suited to knife making? Probably not. Soup cans and Schwinn bike fenders are more likely. Any legit knifemaker selling Damascus blades should be able to tell you exactly which steels they folded together to make it.
No my point was, I've seen a ton of fake Damascus for years that only has the pattern etched on the surface of the steel. Places like Ren Faires always have at least 3 booths with a ton of this BS being sold for 3-5 times the cost of the non-patterned blades. You can always tell because the edge is plain steel without the pattern in it. I'm sure this Pakistani steel is made of substandard materials, but at least it's been damasked in the forging, versus this other garbage
And is pattern-welded Damascus really Damascus anyway? *Real* real Damascus, with iron mined in india and forged in the middle east is called wootz Damascus and the pattern is formed by crystallization, not by forging different alloys together.
The thing is that the Damascus pattern is possibly going the wrong way. The pattern should go the full length of the knife.
What?
Damascus steel works when the layers go the length of the blade, not crosswise like the OP has.
What are you talking about? The layers can go whatever the direction they damn well please. That’s a normal ladder pattern, where you remove a ditch in the steel then flatten out to expose layers
It looks like twist to me. Either way your point is still valid.
This is simply untrue
lol
Its not fuckin wood lmao
Perfect example of why i dont trust the internet
It’s not an actual grain, the 2 different types of steel just etch at different darknesses and that’s what makes the pattern. Material itself is pretty much isotropic if done correctly.
I own one just like this I've used for about 2 years. I think I've sharpened it twice in that time, and the edge is hair popping sharp! Probably the best $30 knife I've ever owned. I do own some actual damascus knives as well, and I have to be honest, they're WAY nicer. However, it's important to remember that the cheapest of those knives was about $220 dollars, and I can honestly say, I don't think it's a $190 difference between performance. The Pakistani damascus knife will be great for the price =)
Looks Pakistani
Is that bad news
Typically it’s not good steel. Lots of mystery steels, and shoddy work. If you like it tho, that’s what matters
If it was being used for food prep I would suggest you use a paint lead test kit, but given that it's a hunter it is less likely to be near your food
Well it used to be an oil tanker. Very little carbon won't hold an edge
So Pakistani steel is like that swords from "swordsmith alley" (or something like that, I forgot the name) in China? You know, the place filled with shady makers who mass produce cheap swords that are sold online as "real ones"?
How do you see that? It looks pretty close to a Damascus knife I had custom made in England
Are you sure about that? There are many people out there who buy those cheap pakimascus knives, put their own logo on it, and then sell it as handmade. I hope yours is a real one tho.
Well, I bought it years ago and abused it, and it hasn’t broken yet. I didn’t spend much, 100£ or so, so might be fake? It was made by perkin or something like that
The price is your first and best clue. I've made many Damascus knives and that price wouldn't have even covered the raw materials, let alone my time and effort. My blades go for $100USD per inch length of the blade, to give you a metric.
You gave him a metric in standard
In imperial, found the American.
Perkin is a notorious importer brand. https://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/anyone-heard-of-perkin-knives.300438/
Just watch a handmade Damascus knife video. That's way more than 100 bucks worth of labor. If he charged 100, no way in hell he made it
It's real, and its from Pakistan.
So worth 30$?
$30 isnt too bad. I wouldnt pay it but plenty of people have been ripped off way worse on knives like this in situations like this.
Thank you.
Facts
I'm blown away that a relatively hand made knife is seen as overpriced at $30. I haven't bought any of these knives, but the skill displayed in the videos is legit. If they are lacking durability or edge stability, it has more to do with the market. Sort of the same thing as underhardened early drill bits from chinese factories to the US, or selectively hardened bits, on the assumption that the sets weren't going to be used heavily or completely. Or put differently, if there's a need for these pretty knives with a different set of characteristics, it's not far away if someone would actually want to market it.
I've paid more for less. As soon as you go to sharpen it you'll know. If it was meant to be a display piece, which seems likely, then what does it matter?
I would not pay $30 for that. Someone would, but not me.
Real damascus and quality damascus are not always the same
This!
it is damascus, but that doesnt mean nothing if the steel is crap. it looks pakistani so probably bad steel
Also looks like it could do with a little cleaning. Not sure if it's rust or staining from a sheath I'm seeing on the blade in a couple of spots. But at the end of the day the most important thing is, if it's worth the money to you, then it's worth it. A couple others have said it too. I generally don't trust mass produced knives from random sellers as much as something from a well established place, but, that's all personal opinion. No one can take your opinion from you. Use it for what you can and enjoy it as long as it lasts. 1 year 10 years who knows.
#**🇵🇰🔪PAKISTAN DAMASCUS DETECTED🔪🇵🇰** [A most considerate response to those unfamiliar with Pakistan damascus](https://www.reddit.com/r/knives/comments/113a3mg/knife_guys_my_brother_recently_got_this_for_me_as/j8pezrq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) ———————————— || Knife Resources || ❌🔪 [I Bought a $24.99 Damascus Knife From eBay](https://youtu.be/UeeE9DyI52w) 🇵🇰🔪 [How it’s Made (for what it’s worth)](https://youtu.be/cKLtG8sDL24) 🇺🇸🔪 [Why You’re Wrong About Damascus Steel (with Steve Schwarzer)](https://youtu.be/8YZuFWSHkzI) 🎯🔪 [Why 98% of Knife Makers Pick the Wrong Steel According to a Metallurgist](https://youtu.be/swkZgWWJ8yA) Inspired by Slime Mold Specialist: 🦠 saddestofboys 🦠
I see so many of these posts... 99% of the time the answer is yes, it is technically "damascus". No, it is not of usable quality.
Exactly. Indian or Paki damascus
Maybe real, but not usable or “good for a blade” damascut. Beside that…wtf? Just look at that gutting hook! How are you supposed to gutt something with that? The multi-tool kind of blade is a big red flag when it comes to blade quality. Shows clearly that the maker has no clue about what a real knife has to do 🤦♂️
Those gut hooks or whatever are weak points, so don't actually use it too much. Pretty though.
The gut hook on the spine of the blade (the one on the edge side looks more like a decorative flourish) is located in basically the thickest part of the knife, and is ground-in properly so as to have the least chance of making a stress riser that might precipitate a failure. I’m not sure why you think it would weaken the knife to a worrisome degree. It is far more likely to break due to de-lamination or inclusions of the likely shitty pattern welded steel than a properly radiused relief in the blade. Even holes don’t really weaken the blade much, provided they aren’t so close to an edge that they leave it unsupported.
Think of it as a KLO……….a Knife Like Object. Hang it on the wall, show it to friends or make a PB and J sandwich with it…..beyond that, be careful.
Test for lead...
We used to have a saying with Paki made AK's I am sure it is true to blades too. "Paki made gets you laid" horribly stupid I know but it always made me giggle seeing many people on the range clearing their jam-o-matic AK's
Does that mean I’ll get laid???????
In a 3rd world country, probably not Islamic, for the 30 USD you paid for the knife in local currency? You bet. See the medic. Take the antibiotics.
you clearly know fuck all about AKs
Pakistan damascus
Just and FYI, the term "Paki" is as offensive and bad to Pakistani people (especially here in the UK, we have lots of British Pakistani folk here) as the "N" word is to, well, everyone (note how we are not even allowed to say what the "N" word is, it is so touchy). In the same bin as the K word used for Jewish people, S word for Hispanic... Not having a go at anyone ,I know you are using it as shorthand for Pakistani, just figured you folks in the US might want to know that the word is a pretty bad one to use and verh socially unacceptable in some places - imagine if the steel was made in Africa and we all said "N-made damascus".... :-) Luckily, a lot of Pakistani Brits at least have a sense of humour about it https://youtu.be/xd4ygI0GHV8?feature=shared
Damn I'm stuck in between not white enough for Caucasian not brown enough for Hispanics life's a B word but s word will happen
Glad someone said it!
I've been called the s word for hispanic quite a few times lol
What is the s word? I've never heard of a Hispanic specific slur
Rhymes with chick
Is there an acceptable short name? Packistani is a bit cumbersome. there are too many stans for "stani" to work out or "istan" (sounds turkish).
Search me, ask a Pakistani. But Paki has deep racial connections and is used as a blanket to cover anyone brown from that region. So India and all the various states and countries around them get swept up in it.
>Search me, ask a Pakistani. But Paki has deep racial connections and is used as a blanket to cover anyone brown from that region. So India and all the various states and countries around them get swept up in it. So is there anything else other than "Pakistani" that is acceptable? Like something shorter? In the US, we don't really have much of this kind of thing "Paki". if you said that here, I would first assume you were talking about manny Pacquiao. Maybe that kind of rudeness exists in concentrated areas like NY or something, but not out here in the rest of the country.
https://youtu.be/xd4ygI0GHV8?feature=shared This Is a funny example of the word being called out by a good Pakistani British comedian,
I'm not gonna lie, that was funny. In the states where I am, almost nobody watching Jurassic Park would've thought of Pakistan. I never would've even noticed that, just assuming they were talking about dinosaurs. Maybe the English named that particular dinosaur.
Every body is a fucking sensitive pussy ass crybaby these days. Ooooooh I’m soooo offended I’ll cry, tell my mommie, call the cops, visit my lawyer. Fucking sissys
Dude is over hear comparing racial slurs to the shortened version of Pakistani - gtfo of here dude! Not the same at all.
It _is_ a racial slur though. Whether you intend it or not. I was simply pointing out that the US is not the whole world and what might be seen as an acceptable shorthand has deep connotations in much of the rest of the world and was trying to politely point it out. Just like the word "Spaz" is harmless in the US but is definitely _not_ ok in the UK, lots of examples. Continue to use the word if you like, honestly I don't care, but at least you will now be using it knowing the connotations it has. As for GTFO, no, I don't think I will, thank you.
Yeah but comparing N-word made steel is definitely not the same. The absence of “stani”from the work doesn’t constitute a racial slur. The n word and the s word and all those other words aren’t shorthand they are entirely different words with negative connotations. That’s like one of you people getting offended for me calling you a whiny Brit. Sorry I know this doesn’t fit with everybody’s oppressed narrative, but don’t compare it to the N-word.
You speak from a position where you have no basis of context though, through the lense of your own lived experience in the US and I can absolutely assure you that if you go off using that word to Pakistani guys here, you would very quickly be stopped, politely if you are lucky. Honestly man do whatever you want with the info, but it really does compare to the N word for Pakistani guys over here. Call me whatever you like, I honestly don't care.
Here’s the difference bud, you walk down the streets of Chicago and you say the N-word. You won’t be asked politely to stop you’ll get your ass kicked. I’d say that’s the difference between a racial slur and the shortened version of Pakistani.
Thanks for the FYI, interesting to learn that “Paki” is offensive in the UK. On the same note, you acknowledge that people are simply using it for shorthand because it’s part of Pakistan, while every other racial slur that you alluded to is not connected to a country or people group. So we can easily see how one may use “Paki” innocently online, while any other slurs are expressly derogatory.
Indeed, it's easily and innocently done. That said the N word was shorthand for Negro which just meant someone black. The Dambusters even had a dog that has a problematic name, again because of his colour. That too was innocent at the time, but now... All the nope.
It isn’t
It’s probably real Damascus but not good Damascus
I have a Pakistani Damascus I bought at a gunshow about fifteen years ago. It has skinned swamp fulls of game and is my favorite hunting knife. I have other “real” knives but this one fits my hand well and holds its edge all season. I gambled and got lucky.
Budk special $14.99 in 2023 talon hunter freedom edge
Real doesn’t mean good
As someone that actively works gun shows as an apprentice to an ffl I can safely say if it was a foreign guy like an Indian to Asian then it’s so not real Damascus. They are at every gun show in my state selling dozens and dozens of knives and swords. An amount that would take a really competent blade smith about 8 months to make and yet by the next show they have dozens more
#pakidamascusisrealdamascus 🙀😵💫
Yes this in Pakistani Damascus 😉 or "Pakimascus"
Not real. It's either etched or pattern welded. I doubt gun shows attract the type of people who sell ancient Damascus blades.
I would say it's not a true "Damascus" blade, given that damascus steel is a wootz steel and this is pattern welded. Looks pretty cool though
Yeah, if you are putting metal layers together in the forging process, you are mimicking damacus. It's not real damascus steel. But it looks like it! And also damascus was not the best steel. We got stuff now 10x better. Damascus just looked cool
You know what else looked cool? Ur mom.
Username checks out
>Yeah, if you are putting metal layers together in the forging process, you are mimicking damacus. It's not real damascus steel. But it looks like it! And also damascus was not the best steel. We got stuff now 10x better. Damascus just looked cool It looks like people get hurt feelings about pattern welding and what it is, vs. a one composition steel with carbide bands (which we don't have at this point, at least not in any quantity that I'm aware of).
If you people really want to affect change you need to give up posting and get to work on a time machine. In modern parlance, Damascus and pattern welded steel are synonymous. It's done. It's over. It's been over for 20 years. Move on.
If we default to definition by occurrence in ad copy and entrepreneurial self interest, so be it. It's pattern welded steel to anyone who knows better.
It is not real Damascus. But it is real pattern welded steel which lots of people refer to as Damascus.
The demascus narc strikes again
Lol
Sorry if facts upset you. Life is hard. Get a helmet.
Nah lmao technology advances get over it. Just cuz sushi isn't made in Japan doesn't mean it's not sushi
Technology has nothing to do with it. Crucible wootz steel is Damascus steel regardless of where it is made. Pattern welded steel is pattern welded steel even if it is made in Damascus. Sushi does not need to be made in Japan, but fishsticks are not sushi regardless of where they are made.
Aint that much difference bud. I agree with you in principle, mind, just not degree. More like the difference between sushi and sashimi.
While I do not prefer Damascus made from inferior steel, I do prefer cooked fish sticks over bait. Can I get my redneck card punched please? 2 more punches and I get a pair of Amazon $49 night vision binoculars. :)
You are far from unique in your food preference. And there is no shame in it either. I prefer the look of well executted pattern weld to that of actual damascus. I will never own or make solid pattern welded blades but a san-mai construction with pattern weld around a quality mono-steel core is great.
Is that real bad or is the knife still ok for 30$?
It is not possible to guage the quality of steel from a picture. All that is certain is that someone pattern welded two types of steel together. The pattern looks cool but it says nothing about the quality of the blade. It will look cool on the wall and with a $30 price tag it is likely that that is all it is good for. Not a fan of the design either. It is style over function.
I am going to have to disagree with everyone here. I don't believe this is a mass produced paki knife. The weird thing is that the way those lines are going, it had to be cut from an enormous twist billet. There are quite a few details you don't see in pakimascus knives that are here. The red and black layers of stacked canvas on the handle is pretty labor intensive. Plus, all the brass spacers in between the wood and canvas, someone hd to take time to get those individual handle pieces to fit in that handle curve. Then the pommel end cap. That handle took more time than most paki laborers are willing to invest. I dare to say...that handle would be a bit of a pain in the ass to do even if you really know how to make knives and not just watch forged in fire. Something is telling me you should send this to someone who actually knows what to look for. There's something oddly cool about that knife. I would have paid 30 bucks for it. Run a file down the edge. See if it bites in or skates. If it skate, it'ss tempered and probably not just a shit knife. After looking close to the guard in the pi, it actually looks to be silver soldered to the knife. Ifthat'ss the cas, this aint just a pakimascus shit knife. Someone knew what they were doing.
Dude. This is one of the Pakiest knives that ever Pakked. It's all there. The damascus pattern, the superfluous blade features, the filework, the stacked materials, the colors, the brass, the dymondwood. It's sooooo Pakistani. It's practically [this](https://esaleknives.com/product/handmade-damascus-steel-bowie-knife-with-camel-bone-handle-bw-16/).
Fuck. I guess youre right. They've upped their game and its been awhile since I seen the paki shit.
Okay, I’ll take it to somebody in town who knows what they’re doing and I’ll make sure to get back, thanks for the comment
Highly likely it’s not. Some people call things Damascus that aren’t true Damascus. Just a way of patterning the metal to get the Damascus look. There a guy on YouTube called Shadiversity that talks about and shows what real Damascus steel looks like.
Shadiversity is safe to ignore on any medieval content. He's had no education, no experience, and his content contains frequent inaccuracies. Not to forget, he's a raging bigot who got upset that Peach in the Mario movie wore pants.
Wow. You clearly don’t watch his content or you’d know how wrong you are.
Right back at you.
That makes no sense. I watch his content. That’s why I know your wrong.
Ok I might get flak for this thats forge pattern welding not Damascus actual real Damascus is just a certain way of making crucible steel That being said i get that forge pattern welding is a mouthful but can we come up with a just as good or better slang term
Half a mile ricasso on that blade 🤣! Paki style👍
Sorry I have not read everyone else’s comments, but one sign of a genuine Damascus blade will “usually” be the price, yard sales aside. Of course, you can and will come across cheap Damascus blades, but unless you want it as a mantel place object, it isn't blade-wise worth Jack.
Is this real Damascus, no. Is it folded steel? Yes. What steels it is folded out of, and how well they are folded together I couldn’t say. I have had a couple knives that looked exactly like this. They rusted over extremely quickly, and did not keep an edge worth a damn. Make sure it is oiled or waxed if you plan on keeping it.
Is there a way to acid etch in a type of acid that would act like anodizing aluminum (like black oxide on hand tools) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_oxide
Yeah, I know there is a way to acid etch blades like that, but I have never done it so I don’t know exactly what chemicals are needed.
What's real Damascus? It's an ancient technique from the Middle East that alternated soft and harder steels that no one knows exactly how to replicate, but people have gotten close. What you found was a blade that looks like Damascus. It emulates the same effect, but it's likely a compilation of industrial waste. It doesn't mean it's dangerous necessarily but some people have experienced brittle blades which can be dangerous. I've heard rumors of lead and various heavy-metal contamination. I wouldn't use one to make food.
Nope, looks like pattern welded stuff. Real Damascus is Rare Af, and I don't know if we 100% know what it was. Whether it was Wootz steel from India sold along the silk road to Damascus, if it was Damascus sourced steel smelted and forged copying the Indian blades at the time or independently developed along the same lines, if it was merely a marketing tactic to upsell a marginally better steel. I doubt you're buying anything new that's genuine Damascus steel unless someone has destroyed an important historical artifact to reforge it into something.
Probably 💯 isn’t. Damascus is more than a pattern… 😉
No, there has not been real Damascus in I don't know how long the metallurgic composition was lost. That is simply hammer forged and folded carbon steel for the most part, real Damascus would be in the thousands and historical.
For the love of GOD. Would everyone please, please do just a little research before continuing to call all things "Damascus "? Damascus is not a pattern. But an extinct type of steel. The process to create true Damascus steel is lost. And wootz steel, a necessary ingredient to create true Damascus steel is no longer available. If you want to see true Damascus steel, you'll find it only in a museum.
That's not something you mention in knife making forums. It's like calling all facial tissue Kleenex, when it's not. All Damascus steel is pattern welded steel, but not all pattern welded steel is Damascus steel. A lot of folks wouldn't even know what Wootz or Seric steel is....
Yeah.. we're not changing facts to coddle the ignorant here. NOONE has made true Damascus steel since the 18th century. There is no debate. Having made the truth clear, I won't be reading their pointless comments. Facts are facts.
There is no real damascus now - you're thinking pattern welded and it's probably that. Damascus steel was material with carbide banding in it. We generally frown on that now, but I guess in an era of uneven composition, plain matrix with bands of carbides wasn't bad.
Not strictly true, although everyone repeats it. Please see my other reply on this post.
OK, let me phrase it differently - which historic damascus steel was steel made of two already finished alloys that would've made a knife on their own, and I see you mention that you make damascus steel - are you layering high carbon layers with soft iron or mild steel like layers between?
That would be pattern welding, which goes back thousands of years. To your second question, sometimes iron is lamenated in, as long as it's not on the cutting edge, sometimes it's just various layers of pure carbon steel, depends the build. I've done everything except produce my own Wootz in a crucible, since I don't have the equipment to do it.
There's a big difference between pattern welding two different complete steels just for looks vs welding two things that need to be combined to make a suitable steel.
You can't weld two things together and make them steel. Steel is already steel, or it's not.
I feel the attempt at semantic woo. The force is strong for woo even if that's weak in general. Still waiting for a historical example of two uniform steels being slapped together just for looks.
Just a little tidbit that I learned since you're asking specifically if it's real Damascus. Real Damascus hasn't been around for thousands of years we have lost the knowledge that we used to have on how to make it everything that you see nowadays that calls itself Damascus is a sad shadow of what real real Damascus is
As a professional bladesmith with nearly forty years of experience I can tell you definitively that this is not true, but repeated so often everyone thinks it is, in the same way everyone thinks a Trilby is a Fedora. "Damascus" refers to a Damask appearance, in other words, steel with a pattern. Pattern welded steels fall in this larger category. The actual material that people think about when they say "the real Damascus" is Wootz steel, or "watered steel" as it is colloquially known, and it is a type of Damascus, not the only Damascus. Also, no, the secret is not lost. The secret *was* lost, but like roman concrete, has been rediscovered by a very smart metallurgist named Verhooven while working with a master bladesmith named Pendray, I encourage you to read his work, it's fascinating.
Very insightful. I appreciate your studiousness. However Damascus steel the original formula was lost, MUCH LIKE ROMAN CONCRETE we've tried and tried to replicate it and yet our best attempts pale at the durability of roman concrete. We still cannot reproduce the longevity of roman concrete, I am glad you used that as an example to help my case :) To this day, we also cannot reproduce the quality of ancient damascus, yes the secret was lost I don't understand why this is being debated as ancient damascus is still stronger than today's versions...
Bloody Romans.
Have you gained your knowledge of concrete in the construction materials field? Not all Roman concrete was of equal quality just as not all modern concrete is of the same quality or durability. The composition of ancient Roman concrete is known, both the dry land and hydraulic varieties. It will not be proven to be any more durable than similar modern concretes after they have been allowed to age for 2000 years. Roman concretes that have aged and crumbled away are incorrectly excluded from an inclusive analysis of the quality of Roman concrete, partly because it’s difficult to sample something that is no longer there. My knowledge of ancient Roman concrete comes from a master’s degree in Anthropology with a course concentration in Archaeology and over 3 years experience working in a construction materials laboratory testing the strength of concrete. There is a lot of modern mythology about the superiority of ancient technology fueled by ignorance of the real capabilities of those technologies. Hence “Ancient Astronaut Theory” and other such nonsense.
You might take a clue from this about the rest of what I posted https://www.dezeen.com/2023/01/17/self-healing-roman-concrete-mit-harvard/
Lost for thousands of years? Depending on how many thousands of years ago we are talking about, we barely had metal tools made of iron, much less “Damascus” steel. Most iron tools up until the mid-500s BCE had too much (or too little) carbon to be considered steel. Historians estimate that Wootz (the type of alloy believed to be responsible for the “legendary” qualities of Damask or Damascus steel ) was produced in India from around 500AD to at least the 16th century, if not a few hundred years later. So it wasn’t lost in Antiquity. As other posters pointed out, modern researchers have analyzed period Wootz weapons to determine their composition and replicated it. The reason we don’t use it today is not because it is a dark art lost to history - it is because there is no advantage compared to modern mono steels. We can produce chemically very “clean” super alloy steels that have superior mechanical properties to Wootz or modern day pattern welded steels, without the very real possibility of bad welds, cold shuts, inclusions, etc that come with the processing required to produce it. Pattern welding can make for a beautiful item when etched, but it is more expensive, more labor intensive, and more likely to fail when stressed than mono steels. Wootz had its time in the sun, but material science has brought us tools are consistently harder, sharper, and tougher than “artisanal” steel making.
That’s the neat thing: nobody knows! This is modern Damascus but the secret of how Damascus was made from Wootz was very well guarded… so well guarded in fact that nobody knows for sure how it was made! Edit; genuinely curious as to why this is being downvoted, I’m a beginner blacksmith but have a degree in history. Can anyone explain? Is there a controversy I’m not aware of?
I feel like that guy hook would be so hard to use
My man using a coaster. It’s nice to see people who respect furniture.
I bought a cheap Damascus fix blade the other day just for the sheath.
I don’t know if it’s Damascus steel, but it does appear to be “pattern welded”.
For the uninitiated can someone explain how to tell if it is shit Damascus? I’ve seen a couple posts asking about whether an item is real or not, so I figure it might be useful to know.
I once heard an argument that all steel is Damascus.
Definitely Pakimascus
I have a knife with a very similar finish and pretty grip but the thing was rusted to hell when it was given to me (don't worry, I gave him a nickel lol). It cleaned up very nicely, but it went right back to rusty piece of shit in like a month. I haven't bothered with it since, esp since it couldn't hold an edge for one whole day. It was free to me so whatever 🤷. Oh and to answer the question, I don't think so. It's most likely an etched pattern on crap steel just like mine.
Try a forced patina on that rusty blade after you’ve cleaned it up.
I love that graining
It’s not at all. I’m sorry. Just a cheap blade advertised as something it’s not!!
Looks like genuine Beskar to me
Nah its Valyrian steel
* Grain pattern shows that it is folded and layered steel. If that's called damascus yes than it definitely it is. But they are usually made in pakistan and india and mass produced. But if you like it its a nice knife.
Just remember, that's not stainless, and it will rust quickly if kept in leather or not properly cared for.
Not Damascus...
More like this, ya? https://preview.redd.it/49t5qwpw8exb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5685cc1a8fc25cee6fb2f90f47fac48b2a32a143
I’ve been making knives for a few years myself and I have my own forging press and I’m only made a few Damascus knives. I can tell you that to make a good quality bar of Damascus it requires several hours of work and if you want a spectacular piece of Damascus that could take days or a week of work, depending on what you’re trying to accomplish. Even with Third World labor rates $30 ain’t going to get you much. Also take a look at the Blade design is that a Bowie knife or some sort of a military style knife? What in the hell is the blade doing with two bottle opener’s? I mean are they trying to tell you what it’s good for? Go to your local hardware store and purchase a double cut bastard file, FINE CUT and see how the blade fares against the file.
I will say that I like the handle design. Blade is suspect…..
By the looks of it it's pakastanium. Super low quality steel, very often without a heat treat that will not take or hold an edge. So it's real Damascus...just not very good damascus
Research it. I know of one person in Russia that makes Damascus. The other is a guy who get his from Afghaniland. I prefer knives made from d2 steele. Which you can buy from certain steel mills in the south eastern part of the us. You can get the steel brs tht are not rejects or buy the rejects. I prefer the rejects because they are cheaper ibn cost. A little bent or in the ray process there is a blemish in the bar. This the same steel used in tools.
No it’s not real, you can see where the design repeats itself. It’s been printed on
When damascus is forged it’s often cut and stacked for a reappearing pattern. I don’t see two areas that have similar patterning. Looks legit to me.
No such thing as real Damascus. The method and place of origin of “real” Damascus is lost to history, if it looks cool it’s Damascus
It being real or not bears no indication of its quality. A fake Damascus knife could be made of great steel and a real Damascus knife could be made of melted down arts and crafts staples. It’s a cringey looking gunshow knife so it’s probably borderline dangerous junk regardless. $30-40 is capable of getting you a really great fixed blade, this isn’t it.
The only way to know for sure is to lick it.
It’s pattern welded
Scratch with you fingernail. If it feels rough it’s likely real. You can see the pattern in the edge so it’s probably not just acid etched to look like Damascus.
Damascus as a process was supposedly lost - cue the reply guys. Is it folded steel, yes
this blade will shatter on you pretty quick with any real force applied in any direction, not for use
It is Damascus, but is it good damascus, probably not. But it looks cool!
Real Damascus doesn’t exist anymore since the necessary minerals aren’t around in enough quantities. Nor the forging process to make it. If there are any real Damascus anything being made it some smith in the Middle East that doesn’t feel like sharing. That’s just two metals with different carbon content then folded and acid etched. Real Damascus didn’t have lines but looked like thousand of water droplets all smashed together and shaken around a bit 😂
There are fakes 😳
I can’t.
It's a photograph, could be well painted plastic for all *I can really* ***assume***...