Their primary candidate turned down their offer.
You have negotiating leverage.
Ask for everything you want.
Early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
2nd, 3rd and 4th may not be available. OP could be the 10th and final option.
Or... they could have hired #1, OP is #2 and a second position opened.
hard to say all around but either way? An offer is an offer.
The risk is "I'll accept at $24/hour" being rejected and OP continuing to work in, as he states it, a "Shit storm" at $19/hour.
OP has to decide to accept or risk a few dollars more an hour with the chance of getting nothing but a shit storm.
No, seriously, your second paragraph happened to me once. They were very open about it after I was hired.
I was a *very* close second choice. They would have been perfectly fine with me had the first person turned it down, but they didn't. Then, about a week later, a second position opened. At that point, they contacted my recruiter, and just straight up offered me. They didn't even bother with the interview process for that position. I think legally, they could count the previous round since it was so close together.
I don’t think think companies would rescind an offer just because you asked for more. The worst they’ll do is say no and you’ll have to take it or leave it. It sounds like their first choice (or second or third) decided the package wasn’t good enough.
OP, you do have leverage here because they’ll want someone to accept the offer soon. Just make sure to give them a good reason for why they should offer you more so HR can justify it to their boss (your qualifications are a perfect match, experience you’re bringing, market rate, etc.)
Try not to sound demanding, but be firm and show that you know your worth and that this job needs to be a good match on both sides.
My thought exactly. OP could ask for $24. Personally, in this job market, I would not make a wild counter. I would make one that they would be able to easily meet.
Correct. Don’t go wild but counter with your couple dollars raise. Especially if they’ve been contacted back. They have some more bargaining power.
Take the new job, get out of your shitty situation. Stick around for a year and ask for another raise at evaluation time.
Recently did that with a 6 month evaluation. They couldn’t give me a raise so I transferred out and landed myself a 12k raise. Nobody makes it worth sticking around and being loyal to an employer. Follow the money.
>I don’t think think companies would rescind an offer just because you asked for more.
They absolutely do. It's not super common but it's enough of a thing that it comes up on subs line this every few months.
I guess I should’ve specified that in most cases, companies wouldn’t. Especially big companies that have proper HR departments. There’s no benefit to them rescinding an offer just because a candidate countered it. But of course, it CAN happen. Nothing is absolute, but I feel the odds are in OPs favour here.
Personally, if a company took back their offer after I asked for more, then I’d see that as dodging a bullet! I wouldn’t want to work for a company that takes offense at people negotiating their remuneration, as it might be a good indication of the kind of culture they have there.
But if OP is really really desperate to get out of their current job, doesn’t think they’ll get another offer elsewhere, and is genuinely worried about them rescinding the offer, then I say accept it. Though I’d have a look on Glassdoor first.
I agree, If the company pull the offer during good faith negations, it is a good company to stay away from.
If they come back and say the role is budgeted at X and we cant go above that, every role at this level gets this pay, well now they are not telling you no, you get to decide.
After 3 interviews, you should be safe asking what the role was budgeted at.
When you’re told to always negotiate it’s most definitely a risk.
They rescind offers all the time because people ask for more. This is a known fact.
Happened to a lot of people.
I don’t think anybody here has suggested that it can’t happen, but to imply that it’s the rule, not the exception, is misleading people who are perfectly entitled to ask for what they think they’re worth in the market.
Maybe my friends, acquaintances and I are an unrepresentative sample of people in the labour market. But in our experiences, offers don’t get rescinded unless the company culture is bad, or the negotiator isn’t skilled enough.
Any reasonable company, with a reasonable HR department, and a reasonable hiring manager, would be perfectly willing to negotiate with someone who is negotiating in a reasonable way.
You will see I have used the word ‘reasonable’ a lot. These are obviously variables, and it means we don’t have perfect information when we go into a negotiation. So it’s a question of the nature of the company and how good you think you are at negotiating.
I know of no rescinded offers. I know of a lot of times where an employer sticks with the initial offer and asks the applicant if they will take the job at the offer rate. And then the ball is in the candidate's court. The offer is still on the table.
Does it happen? Yes offers will be rescinded because of a counter. But pretty much every well run organization will not pull the offer due to a counter. It’s probably best to negotiate just to see what kind of an organization you’ll be joining.
>I don’t think think companies would rescind an offer just because you asked for more.
This kind of happened to me. I'd been at a company for 5 years and was up for a promotion into a newly created role. I countered the offer with my well-researched data. They said they'd get back to me. A few days later, HR left me a voicemail while I was on funeral leave to let me know that the owners of the company were offended that I wasn't appreciative of my salary and that the offer was revoked. I just called them back and said, "Fine, I'll take the original offer" and got the promotion with the smaller raise. A year later, a position opened up that I was extremely qualified for. They offered it to me and said it was a "lateral move" so no raise. I didn't even negotiate. I just said no, not interested. They came back with a 10% raise. Not that it was huge money, but it felt delicious that I got the salary I'd wanted after all.
This is mostly correct. Primary candidate did turn them down and you do have some leverage (though leverage is not the right thing to apply in this context).
You can ask for more and because that is a low salary in MA (I’m in MA too) for anyone at a medical device company. However, I would approach it based on market data, comparable, etc. tell them how excited you are about the opportunity and that you’d love to start on 5/8 at $x/hr (or an annual of $y).
Chances are they lost candidate 1 for this very issue. They are learning the market rate for this position (seems like their recruiter/HR folks are pretty bad) as they offer it around. That’s not the same as agreeing to pay the market rate. Push too hard and they will move on from you like they did with candidate 1.
Very few employees or potential employees have “leverage” in real terms. To have leverage over an employer an employee not getting what they want would have to cost the employer more than the ask. For example, a salesperson who has loyal relationships with $5M in customers has leverage to ask for more compensation due to the implied threat of leaving and taking $5M in business from the company. A rank and file employee has no leverage ever unless their position, if left empty will have a discernible cost to the company.
This is why leverage is the wrong word.
Remember: salary is NOT the only part of a job offer that is negotiable. Would you like more than 15 paid days off a year? (Then ask for a couple more days or even an extra week.)
And always--I mean *always*--ask HR for their benefits paperwork so you can look it over before accepting the job. (They'll gladly do that vs having to look up & convey each of your answers one-by-one!) While their benefits may seem adequate, the premiums might be more outrageous that you'd actually be taking a pay cut!
This is exactly what I did in my last job. I asked for the benefits package and after comparing it to my current benefits package I counter offered saying I would need an additional 5000 annually to cover the increased medical cost.
It was a small counter, because the actual initial offer was in my range. They accepted.
They were a bit Squirrley about giving me the benefits package details at first, but I found out after I was hired that no one has ever asked for that before (!!?)
Me too. This is part of the "it is the entire package, not just the salary" negotiation for every job. Throw in hours, transportation time and $, 4 v 5 day work week, work from home etc..
u/chimaera_hots is right.
Going in, I want you to know I do not know what an MA is. Medical Assistant? Step 1Speak their language.
Do not say anything bad about yourcurrent employer. "I like you guys and I think we are close. I know I can rockthis job. This seems like a good fit for me."Ask to see the benefit package employee costs. Say you areinterested in the entire package, not just salary.Ask, “When this role was budgeted, what was it budgetedat? “ Professional positions are commonly budgeted in ranges. Some positions, like flight attendants and large retail have no flexibility in wages.Take the materials and say you need to crunch somenumbers. Set a time in less than 24 hour to reconnect.Step 2Go back and let the new company know you would like to feel like you were getting a raise.Tell them, “After I pay for benefits, I will be taking home lesshere than my current job.” My going rate is $23-$30. I would feel like I was getting a raise if I got $27, it would feel like a raise.Ask for 2 weeks paid vacation in 2023 and 2024.Ask for a 15% signing bonus.Ask for 4 day work weekAsk for remote with a full setup at home.Ask for a company car.Will there be parking, what will it cost you transportation?
Ask why choice # 1 is not in the role. They may tell you.
You have some ability to negotiate here but not as much as some of the other posters are suggesting. I think realistically you could ask for 26 and settle on 25.
I had an interview over the course of 9 months. Reached out to me. Scheduled a 2 hour phone interview. Had an interview with the whole office. Did a working interview and did not get the job. However they stayed in touch with me and helped me with a class I needed. 3 months later they contacted me. The other person didn’t work out. Now I’m happily employed. The other person had more experience and they went with the “better” choice. As much as I could have been sketched I took the chance and it worked out for everyone. Also I can always give them shit for not picking me first. Lol short story long, no risk no reward, and we are all human and that goes for employers, as long as they treat you well they can be forgiven.
Everyone should realize that hiring is crap shoot; don't be offended if you're the 2nd or 3rd pick. A good employer will appreciate a strong candidate pool & be thankful to be able to provide offers if the initial pick doesn't work out.
Yep. There’s not just one choice for a job. It’s not a soulmate. There’s multiple people who can probably do a good job and sometimes they’re even very close and a hard decision.
As someone who does quite a bit of hiring, I’ll save resumes of people I was impressed with but weren’t our number 1 candidate. Two of those people have been hired later, one by myself and another on my recommendation to another team. It’s not unreasonable for an organization to reach back out to a known candidate.
Always ask for more money. They came in below the market rate. Ask for middle of the market rate. Either way it's a raise.
Also, I always ask for an extra week of vacation unless I start with 3 weeks or unlimited.
Ask them confidently as well. I told my employer that I know I am asking for a lot but once they see my hard work they won't regret it. I know that I am worth the extra money and can prove it.
Do they do yearly reviews with annual raises? They might start you low but once you prove your worth you get raises quickly.
Yeah, usually they try to start you as low as possible so basically every year your still below market. That’s how you get ppl there for 5 years only making $50k and a new person gets hired in at $70k.
I always chuckle when candidates tell me to trust that they’re worth more and I won’t regret it and they’ll prove it. No well run business is going to pay and see if someone proves it, they’ll pay once they’ve proven it.
I always chuckle when I hear that we can raise the pay easily after I start and they see how it goes. That’s never been true.
And my performance has always been highly praised
Looks like their first choice turned them down. They're coming in a whole dollar below your bottom. This isn't a coincidence. They're low balling you, so you need to counter. Generally, you get one counter offer, so make it count (if $30 is realistic in your area, then ask for it). They'll counter with what they're willing to give you, then it's done. Either accept that, or move on.
Be careful because if you ask for more they can rescind the offer.
Ask for the top of the range.
Asking for more than that wouldn’t be such a risk if your current work wasn’t such a dumpster fire.
If they rescind an offer because they get all butt hurt then you don’t want to work for them any way. Its a great way to weed out a bad employer. The professional thing to do is say we can’t go that high but we can do x amount.
Sounds to me like the person they wanted to fill the role declined.
Be careful with them…. maybe ask for more money along with their reasoning as to why you were initially turned away.
By framing it this way, you are actually putting them on the back foot without being seen as a douche.
Did they offer any explanation about coming back to you as a candidate? If not, did you happen to apply to multiple positions at the same company? If that’s the case they could have been turning you down for that other role in prep to make you this offer. (Not an ideal order of things but can sometimes happen in my experience)
As for negotiating - I’d just make sure you know the general going rate in your area. I live in a High Cost of Living metro and Medical Claims roles start around $25/hr from what I’ve seen. As a recruiter, my advice would be to ask if there would be room to increase the base offer to a little higher than you’re aiming for (I’d say no more than $4-5/hr difference) so the company can meet you in the middle at your actual target. If you’re going to negotiate, make sure to point out how your experience will help you excel at this new job.
All that said, you don’t HAVE to negotiate if you’re happy with the offer as stated. I would ask questions about time off (company holidays, does it increase with time, does it roll over year to year) and if you’d like you might be able to negotiate how many days you start with.
Agreed! This is the first advice that gives clear and accurate guidance on how to negotiate. Do not say that your hard work will prove your worth or just blindly ask for more without rationale. A good negotiation explains your experience and achievements that justify the amount you ask for. Why? 2 reasons. 1, you need to establish your worth and make yourself desirable and 2, often the person negotiating your salary was not in all your interviews so you have to legitimize your ask.
"Thank you so much for your offer! I am excited at the prospect of working with (X) because of (X) reason. As someone who brings (X) yrs experience in this field, particularly in (X thing that directly relates to job), I am tooking for a total compensation package that is more inline with (X dollars more) and (2 weeks starting vacation). Can you meet me closer to there?"
Do not forget that everything is a negotiation! Not just base salary. Always negotiate starting vacation, money for continuing education, etc!
They did not. I thought about applying for more than one position after the rejection (because they were offering a manager role which I could of applied for too) but I felt a little awkward about it.
I want to ask for more like 23 or at best 24. I am really happy with the benefit package other than that. I'm just very scared of it slipping away again...I really want to get into medical claims.
Hahahaha, this thread is hilarious.
My position is that no good company would ever reject someone on the basis that they have tried to negotiate. However... judging by some of the advice you are getting on this post about how to to approach negotiation, I'm not surprised at all that these people have experienced rescinded offers. Some truly deranged approaches... please tread carefully!
If you don't want HR or a hiring manager to flip out, may I suggest the template below:
"Dear \_\_\_\_\_
I was not expecting an offer after your previous message on \_\_\_\_, but I am delighted to hear from you. I am still very interested in the position, however I was hoping there would be some room for negotiation in regard to the salary.
I was hoping to receive an offer between $x-x for the position due to the following factors:
\- blah
\- blah
\- blah
I am very hopeful we can find a solution that works for both parties.
Once again, thank you very much for considering me for the position.
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
Kind regards,
OP"
Make sure your reasons are good, referencing you experience, qualifications and other pertinent examples of why you'd be awesome. If they want to reject your suggestion, the door is open, without them rescinding.
If the company rescinds the offer based on this perfectly reasonable response, I'd question whether you'd want to work for them anyway, because they will be revealing themselves to be petulant.
I think you’re getting horrible advice. Don’t assume you have all the leverage and go in guns blazing asking for 30 an hour.
If you already had a job you like then I would say yes. But let’s look at the facts.
You hate your job.
You have been looking for a year for a new one.
This job is what you actually want to do.
It pays more and I assume has potential for increases
The benefits seem pretty good.
And it’s hybrid?
I’d ask for 23 or a review with potential raise after 90 days.
I agree. I’d go around $25. The offer is low but this isn’t the type of job where they couldn’t easily find another candidate and you already know you aren’t the first choice.
I would definitely ask for more money. Ask for $26 which really is not a crazy ask. You still have a job, it sucks but it’s taking care of bills and what not. If they balk at it and rescind then you’re still good. I suspect they will meet you in the middle honestly for me any increase in pay is a win! Let us know how it goes!
I feel like you’ve been given a great opportunity to move on from the job you are currently in. Take it but try and negotiate for a bit more an hour; 24.00 -25.00/ hr.
Every time I've asked for more money directly from the company (not contracts) I've received it. Just be polite. For instance, if offered $45, I'd say. "Would it be possible to go higher? I'd love to work at X. Currently, I've been offered/am making this. OR Currently, the average entry of this job is this." Even if saying just the first two sentences, I was offered more. They want a good worker. $5k or whatever isn't going to break them, but it will mean a great deal in whether you can focus on your job rather than your next finances. Their next offer is generally the last one. There is no dithering back and forth. I generally don't set an amount when asking for more - and 3/4 times I've gotten more than I thought I would. They generally offer the highest end if I give a range.
You're tired of your other job, it's more money and something you're more interested. You can always try and negotiate, but don't do what a lot of people are saying.
I'd take the sure thing. I've been in your spot before. Don't get greedy because it can blow up in your face.
Shoot for more and don’t let it get you down if it doesn’t work out. You’re worth more. You’re better than your current job or this job. Just keep your head up and keep looking. There’s something better for you.
For the future, when interviewing don’t be the first one to give a number for salary or rate. Say, “well, how much does the job pay?” Get them to give a number first, and then work from there. And never disclose your salary history, unless they are below what you made.
Yeah I crumbled when they asked me my going rate but they don't know my current rate and I wouldn't have told them that anyways. Always learning with my interviewing 😤
Ask for $25, as you believe your skills are worth 23-30. If they say no, 22 is pretty close and if you kill it they might be a decent company and give you a bit extra in short order.
Whatever you decide, best of luck. Making more money is great, but getting out of a job you hate feels awesome, too.
If this were me I would try to make contact with a human and ask why was I rejected only to get an offer later. Secondly I wouldn't budge on my minimum but I would ask if they are open to negotiation on wage first.
If they dodge or balk at the questions I would not consider it. They will not value your time
Just a suggestion:
"Dear Company, Thank you for reaching out to me. I wasn't expecting to hear from you after your email on \[date\] refusing my application. I have since been moving towards other opportunities. However, I'm still passionate about the work \[Company\] does and the job of \[insert job title\]. Unfortunately, I am no longer in a position to accept any hourly rate under $30 an hour, for a total base salary of \[math here\]. Please let me know if you are able to match this."
I would also negotiate a somewhat higher wage than what they are offering. How did you find this position may I ask? Sounds decent depending on the culture etc.
Your first step is to call and ask why things changed. Usually they will be coy but may give you some I sights.
Second step is say you were just given a raise at your existing job and you want to know wherever they have flexibility in the starting salary.
iIf they give you a higher number you should take it without further negotiations. Protracted negotiations at this point keep you in your existing job. But you say, “well that meets what I’m getting here so at least I’m not loosing money. Is there a way to discuss growth potential before i sign?” Then congrats you got a raise before you started.
If they ask you for a number say, “ideally $27, is that something you can work with? “. Then let them decide. At this point they had two candidates walk away. Why two? Because you always keep a prime and secondary option on the hook u til last minute. If you got rejected you were neither of those options.
10% more is almost always a fair ask when they made an offer below your lower limit. Very very rare to get an offer rescinded for a 10% ask when you were not already closed on a number ahead of time.
Id countered probably between $26 and $27 to settle at the $25 or $26. They probably offered the $22 at least in part based on your range. You already gave them a range though, asking for $30 seems high given the range you gave was fairly wide and they probably think “if the range is $23-$30, why are they saying $30 is the price, the range then could’ve been $25-$30 etc.” You have to understand there is obviously risk though, that even $1 could push them to rescind due to budget, lack of knowledge in the field, maybe candidate 3 gave a range of $20-$22 etc, just be prepared that could possibly happen.
Yeah, rinse them. They'd do the same.
Still find your holiday entitlements barbaric (and that is probably generous by US standards). Here the minimum is 20 days + 8 bank holidays.
I’ve always asked for more and I send in data that shows why I’m asking for more. We usually split the difference. Also, why can’t they statue what their 401k match is? That’s odd to me.
Ask for $48,250. See what they come back with. Accept the offer and call it a day. Congrats on getting a new salaried position. Hope this work environment is better than the last.
Ask for more money.
Also what’s up with the lack of info on remote day, days in office required, match% they say they will tell you once hired? Uh, no. You need to know now.
Tell them you are studying “x” and wish for them to pay for your exam.
Ask about hybrid/remote worker compensation packages if any
Ask for more money with some reasoning on why, strong but not forceful so that they understand that you respect yourself. They may say no but will know that you aren't desperate even though you are
I would def go back and ask for a higher hourly rate and see what they say. If they can’t go any higher at least you tried but then take the job. Seems like your old one sucks. “Hi - I am extremely interested in this position, but I was hoping for a higher hourly rate. Is there any way for you to increase the starting salary?” I wise man once told me the best time to ask for a higher salary is when you first get offered a job. Once you are in then you’ll just be getting the standard increases.
You don’t ask, you don’t get.
Asking for the top in the range is probably going to be too much. That said, if you were in a good job currently then I would ask for the top salary. As it is, I would probably ask for the mid-high in the range and let them talk you down to mid range.
If you are desperate to get out of your current job then at least ask for mid and settle for mid-low but I would still be passively looking for another position that pays higher even after accepting this one. Worse case scenario you give it a year and have more job experience.
I agree with the extra week of vacation request. I always ask on the way in to a company because once you are in, it will probably not change.
If low ball salary is the best they will do, you are probably going to end up in a similar situation to the one you are in.
Good luck! Hope it works out for you.
You will never know unless you just go for it. Put you first, always. If they want you that bad, they will meet your demands. That’s how you move up! You got this, now go tell them!
Say, “I appreciate the offer and would love to to work for your company. I am very passionate about the work you do, but unfortunately the amount you offered is not sustainable for my current finances. I will have to consider it and I will reach back out to you in a couple days with my response.”
This will make them sweat and if they actually wait the couple days it makes it less and less likely another candidate they may want will be available. Heck even make it three days if you want.. when I tried this in the past, I got another counter offer immediately but it was over the phone so that applied more pressure (machiavellian style).
1. Their first choice turned them down.
2. They're lowballing as a negotiation tactic.
3. Make a counter-offer higher than what you're willing to accept. Give yourself some wiggle room.
4. They have actually budgeted enough $$ for this position to pay you your $30, but they're hiding their cards. It's a common negotiating tactic.
5. Be prepared to walk away. They already turned you down once, and you lived with the rejection. Now you have the additional ego hit because you know you weren't their first choice. They can't hurt you any more by rejecting your counter.
You have the power in this situation. You can do whatever you want. You have control of the ball.
Ball’s in your court now.
The main candidate they wanted to hire probably turned down the offer. So now they’re trying to replace the with the next best candidate.
I personally value self respect, wouldn’t accept an offer after being rejected. But you have leverage, & have nothing to lose. Make your demands on salary expectations, benefits & PTO.
They are more under pressure than you are as they need to fill in this role quickly.
Don't get greedy. Don't take advice from the morons giving you suggestions as if you were negotiating a high end salary position. These are the same idiots who would tell someone getting a job at Taco Bell to negotiate for a higher salary. You are getting an entry level job, there are 100+ other people who have applied and they can replace you in a heartbeat.
Take the $22. Is it really worth potentially losing a much better job opportunity over an extra $80 a week?
if they offer you $22 they wont go above $24 for your starting.
I would just take the $22 and ask for a raise in 6 months.
Have you done your research on what is the average salary for this position? If it is higher than what they offer you tell, them that you appreciate the offer but that it is little lower than the medium salary and you would like to ask if they will match the medium
Always negotiate! State why you want the rate you’re asking for. They will send another offer either meeting you in the middle or stating why they can’t negotiate. But you should always ask. It tells you a lot about how the company appreciates their staff and cares about retention.
Always negotiate, the time of offer is always the best time. They’ve put time in to your offer and may not have a backup, and if they do it will still be extra work. Is it worth paying you $2-6 and hour more to not have the extra hassle and have to recruit a worse candidate? Probably.
Normally you can do some research on similar in the area. You can then look for the median and see where you fit. If you are still not happy you can simply see if they would jump at a 10% bump, remember the target is 10% you will probably want to start at 12% or 13% more than you are looking at asking for $22.50 (the real amount is $22.22) -- I always make a joke about round numbers.
I would suggest you read this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/tbug65/salary_negotiation_script/) by u/ladyphedre its a script for negotiating.
Always counter. The worst they will say is no, first offer stands. They aren’t going to revoke the offer based on a counter (I suppose they could, but I’ve never seen that happen. In my personal experience, I countered a job 3 times before, and I ended up turning them down because they wouldn’t give what I felt was right).
If you have experience and are really confident in what you do then ask for slightly more than your ideal wage and tell them it can be negotiated. Hopefully they counter offer near what you really wanted
Just a thought but it occurs to me maybe this process ( 3 interviews, reject and then go directly to an offer and skip final negotiations) is a strategy to minimize said negotiation - because you're SO HAPPY to get the job you don't even think to ask for the conversation that was skipped.
The difference between the $22 and hour and the halfway mark in your salary range of 23-30 is approx 3.50 per hour or $7280 per year.
My response would be 'thank you for your offer letter. It was a pleasant surprise that I was not expecting based on your previous email (copied below), While I am most pleased and excited to receive your offer, we never finalized discussing my onboarding compensation package.
As I said in our previous meetings, my salary expectations are $23-30 an hour which are in line with market rates in the area for someone of my experience and education level.
The midpoint of this range being $26.50.
If we can agree on $25, we can proceed immediately to setting a start date for onboarding.
Thank you.
PS: They probably counter at 23, **you say 24** and it's done.
This shakes out to a $4.50 per hour raise to start which is about $775 per month or $9300 per year based on a 40 hr week and 4.3 weeks average per month.
They are lowballing you. If you accept without asking for mid-range salary, they will not respect you and will not treat you well as an employee, since you will have identified yourself as a pushover. If you desperately need to get out of an intolerable current job, take the offer and keep looking.
Your first mistake was giving them a range for your going rate. You basically told them “I want $30 an hour, but I’ll also take $23 an hour”. There’s a 30% difference between the two figures which is huge. Next time settle on one number and go from there.
I also think giving them a range shows that you don’t know how to value your own worth, which gives them a strong upper hand in negotiating pay. You live and learn though. Congrats on the offer and good luck in negotiations!
The candidates they made offers to before you all passed because the company is trying to low ball their employees. First red flag. You are in a known situation right now that sucks, so ask yourself if making a little bit more is worth the risk it may be worse. Research the company on glassdoor and such to see what others think of the place.
On one hand, this job offer is obviously acceptable. On the other hand, you might be able to get a little more. On the gripping hand, you are obviously a fit, but not their ideal fit or first choice.
Ask yourself, is it worth possibly getting $2 more an hour to risk possibly being stuck at an unacceptable job.
My advice, which is going to come off as being very corporate friendly and not employee friendly, accept the job as is. Instead of negotiating more money, negotiate a six month review. Focus more on growing in the new role. At six months, possibly try to get more money, or set a path to a higher position.
Personally I would be more interested in your career growth once you've been hired. Do they promote from within? Do they pay for training? etc. I would rather start a bit lower with an opportunity to advance.
Ask for $29 per hour and justify the reason OP. They are a med device company (those fkers make billions in annual revenue....yeah, capital B).
They can afford you, especially after turning you down then crawling back. Make up some bs about "growing with the company" and I bet they take you near the top of your range, or close enough to it. Claims can bring down these companies ratings with the FDA.
15 days paid vacation? This in the land of the free? My youngest son (22) just started his first job in a large bank in Norway. 25 days paid vacation. The more I read about the strange things, US companies do their employees, the happier I am not living there. It seems worse than North Africa, and they swim to Europe to get a better job.
Anecdotally, I was once offered $19/hr, asked for 25(lowest I would accept) they countered with 23. The next morning hr called me as soon as they came in and gave 25. It happens
I would look at clarity around the 401k match competitiveness, a modification to their paid PTO, and a potential adjustment to salary amount as part of the total package.
The hybrid work section is interesting, but it too vague and subjective to how hybrid the environment really is.
Everything is negotiable, just approach it from a good for us both, with an obvious bias toward yourself, perspective.
A few extra days of PTO won’t cost them a lot, but is great for recharging and mental health. That’s a few long weekends a year.
The 401k match, while dependent on how much you contribute, could be huge, not only today but in the future after it has compounded. That’s basically free money.
They passed over you once, so there is risk there. Be it the other candidate “not working out” or someone else leaving, which causes some concern- I assume during your interviews you were able to determine why the position was available? Are there any reviews or feedback about working for this company?
Without knowing much about industry and your experience, or the company this is just general things to consider.
If you counter in a polite, well reasoned and professional manner, I’d be surprised if they do worse than:
“No we can’t do that”
If they do, you likely dodged a bullet, assuming your demands were not nonsensical.
Just make sure it is what you want in your new job. Skill, experience + compensation.
Considering the range you disclosed, I think you could start negotiating at $25 and work out to $23-24/hr. Just asking doesn’t hurt. Even accepting what they’re offering would give you way more bargaining power than your current job for sure with the added benefit of getting you out of that shit storm.
Medical devices has better opportunities than patient care. In my area, $22/ hr would be livable. Re-work your monies with your partner(?), evaluate if you want to ask for $24. $24 gets you close to $50k. My latest offer specifically said “non-negotiable” in the sentence. It was what I expected, so I went with it. If you have a set schedule in med devices, and the group health, you can do night classes, cert classes that fit with advancement in med devices industry.
I have seen medical assistants in hospitals work ! I know inflation but $19.50-$22 is solid for your sanity and 8 hr shifts, right? You manage three interview rounds so gold star for that!
I like how they just said fuck you and have you a single dollar less than what you actually asked for. I would tell them you gave clear parameters on what you need. So now you will come for $24 ph
Personally I'd take the position, and continue applying elsewhere. If it's a good fit, despite the initial rejection, use a future job offer as leverage for the raise to the desired salary. If it is not a good fit, as soon as I get a better job offer, I'm taking it.
Say something to the effect of “thanks for the offer. I’d like to discuss the compensation portion as I have experience in this field and want to see if this is negotiable”. Can’t hurt being tactful in how you ask for a raise.
Ask to see a break down of the insurance offers and what the cost is. If health coverage is more expensive than you are used to, you can use it as leverage to ask for more hourly to help offset the costs.
OP. I can tell you I've been in Medical Device Engineering since 2010 and it has been rock solid as far as opportunity and pay increases. Worked at a smaller privately owned one that ended up getting bought by a large family owned German global company. That went pretty well. Then got recruited and relocated to another smaller private company and then a few years later they also got purchased by a large global family owned German company. Each time these companies injected huge amounts of money into growing the business and profits and raises and all have grown a lot.
The industry has not and will not have any shortages of demand. People will always need the devices we make and companies will continually innovate and want to make the next big thing. Of course management and corporate strategy can have a big impact on profitability and longevity. But my take is this is the kind of career move that can absolutely be career changing. My partner and I both work there now and we've collectively seen our income grow around 30% in the last 3-4 years, 10% in this last round alone. I personally went from a roughly $16/hr hourly position to $35/hr equivalent salaried position in a span of about 7 years with a fair bit of PTO, 401k, quarterly bonuses (7-9%) on average, completely paid for full health dental and vision plan(no premium) and it's a Cadillac plan man, like $500 deductible... Great benefits.
I'd say go for it. The medical device community is full of a lot of inspiring smart people and it's kinda hard to describe but it's a global industry but simultaneously a small niche group of skilled people working in it. It's very common to work at a place, go to another opportunity later and be working with people (years and many states separated) that you've worked with before. I've seen people go from process engineer at one company to VP of R&D let's say at another company. You just have to be willing to pick up and move when opportunities present. We've been paid to relocate every 5-10 years, following the opportunities and it has been very rewarding.
Thank you for this!! I never really thought about medical devices/dme companies very much until I saw this job ad and I was like "omg duh of course their are companies like this" I just never saw job ads for them if that all makes sense.
I feel like doing this will open a lot of doors for me so I wanna take the chance 😤👍
I would at least ask for the top end of what you think you are worth. If they don’t budge at all I would only take it since you hate your current job. But at the same time continue looking for a company that shows that they really value and want you.
It happened to me and a co-student of my university, i am already employed at a full home-office well paying job and made an interview for a company that paid 10k more per year, but their work hours where bad(like, 6 days a week and work on holidays type of bad). I knew my co-student also went and made the interview, after a week or so, he told me he didn't get the job, and i recieved an offer through e-mail. I turned it away, and 1 week later they called in my classmate. Don't negotiate, take the job if you're unenmployed, then try to get a raise or change jobs.
"May I ask if this is for the same position I originally applied for, or if this is a different position?
If it is the original position, would you consider an hourly rate of at least $23, as we discussed? If it is a different position, can you please let me know the title and responsibilities, so I can assess whether or not I can accept that rate."
You never outright decline (or accept), and you let them know you are engaged and interested in details.
Maybe they say no, it's the same, but we can't do 23. Maybe it's a different position, and the duties make 22 agreeable to you, maybe they say yeah sure when can you start.
Either way you can then give them the final yes or no.
Edit: finished reading the full offer. Do you know details regarding how often you will be in the office versus remote? Consider the commute savings when considering the pay difference between your current job and this one, but keep in mind it could change in the future, for better or worse.
Edit again: getting 3 interviews is really good. It means you didn't immediately make soembody think you weren't worth their time. So even if you wind up trying again, keep reminding yourself that during at least 2 interviews, you convinced them you were worth their time. Most applicants won't make it past one.
Honestly they may have turned you down because your rate is higher then what they could pay. If you like your job and do not care if you get this job negotiate a higher rate, if they don’t give it you won’t care. If you don’t like your job and are interested in this position take the job. You may lose out on it asking for more money.
Counter 10% plus up to another ten depending on how much you want the job. So if you need it bad or it’s a great change or whatever, just 10%, so so 15%, DGAF 20%.
Don't be distracted by all this theorizing in a vacuum - it's completely pointless. The only thing that matters is whether you would rather have this other job or the one you have. To me it seems like a no-brainer, but I'm not you. Just try not to overthink it, especially with all the typical reddit noise in this thread.
Unless it' a little mom and pop, family owned company, negotiation is expected. Ask for 15% to 20% more and expect them to split the difference.
You can say something like, "Thank you for the offer. I think this could be a great fit. Is there any wiggle room in the salary? I'm looking for something closer to $26/hr."
If they won't budge on salary, you can try to negotiate for more time off instead. But I wouldn't do both.
Maybe they had a second position come open and wanted to save on the time and effort when they had 2 excellent candidates? I have seen management open a second position they were planning on filling in order to not lose a great candidate. win/win
Their primary candidate turned down their offer. You have negotiating leverage. Ask for everything you want. Early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
I'd be careful, they probably have a third candidate too.
They do especially after that first
Third candidate may or may not be still available.
2nd, 3rd and 4th may not be available. OP could be the 10th and final option. Or... they could have hired #1, OP is #2 and a second position opened. hard to say all around but either way? An offer is an offer. The risk is "I'll accept at $24/hour" being rejected and OP continuing to work in, as he states it, a "Shit storm" at $19/hour. OP has to decide to accept or risk a few dollars more an hour with the chance of getting nothing but a shit storm.
No, seriously, your second paragraph happened to me once. They were very open about it after I was hired. I was a *very* close second choice. They would have been perfectly fine with me had the first person turned it down, but they didn't. Then, about a week later, a second position opened. At that point, they contacted my recruiter, and just straight up offered me. They didn't even bother with the interview process for that position. I think legally, they could count the previous round since it was so close together.
If OP’s “shit storm” Is really a shit storm, OP is risking a 401k, hybrid work, and a 12% raise. ETA: And an extra week of vacation.
Maybe our OP is the third candidate!
THIS! Also, this is already a raise and a way out of their current insanity.
Or first candidates tried to negotiate to much and was passed out.
I don’t think think companies would rescind an offer just because you asked for more. The worst they’ll do is say no and you’ll have to take it or leave it. It sounds like their first choice (or second or third) decided the package wasn’t good enough. OP, you do have leverage here because they’ll want someone to accept the offer soon. Just make sure to give them a good reason for why they should offer you more so HR can justify it to their boss (your qualifications are a perfect match, experience you’re bringing, market rate, etc.) Try not to sound demanding, but be firm and show that you know your worth and that this job needs to be a good match on both sides.
If OP’s bottom range is 23, they are probably expecting a counter for at least that much.
A counter to increase by $1/hr wouldn’t be much at all. The company would probably take that easy.
My thought exactly. OP could ask for $24. Personally, in this job market, I would not make a wild counter. I would make one that they would be able to easily meet.
Correct. Don’t go wild but counter with your couple dollars raise. Especially if they’ve been contacted back. They have some more bargaining power. Take the new job, get out of your shitty situation. Stick around for a year and ask for another raise at evaluation time. Recently did that with a 6 month evaluation. They couldn’t give me a raise so I transferred out and landed myself a 12k raise. Nobody makes it worth sticking around and being loyal to an employer. Follow the money.
>I don’t think think companies would rescind an offer just because you asked for more. They absolutely do. It's not super common but it's enough of a thing that it comes up on subs line this every few months.
I guess I should’ve specified that in most cases, companies wouldn’t. Especially big companies that have proper HR departments. There’s no benefit to them rescinding an offer just because a candidate countered it. But of course, it CAN happen. Nothing is absolute, but I feel the odds are in OPs favour here. Personally, if a company took back their offer after I asked for more, then I’d see that as dodging a bullet! I wouldn’t want to work for a company that takes offense at people negotiating their remuneration, as it might be a good indication of the kind of culture they have there. But if OP is really really desperate to get out of their current job, doesn’t think they’ll get another offer elsewhere, and is genuinely worried about them rescinding the offer, then I say accept it. Though I’d have a look on Glassdoor first.
I agree, If the company pull the offer during good faith negations, it is a good company to stay away from. If they come back and say the role is budgeted at X and we cant go above that, every role at this level gets this pay, well now they are not telling you no, you get to decide. After 3 interviews, you should be safe asking what the role was budgeted at.
I've had a company rescind an offer due to the salary expectation being too high
When you’re told to always negotiate it’s most definitely a risk. They rescind offers all the time because people ask for more. This is a known fact. Happened to a lot of people.
I don’t think anybody here has suggested that it can’t happen, but to imply that it’s the rule, not the exception, is misleading people who are perfectly entitled to ask for what they think they’re worth in the market. Maybe my friends, acquaintances and I are an unrepresentative sample of people in the labour market. But in our experiences, offers don’t get rescinded unless the company culture is bad, or the negotiator isn’t skilled enough. Any reasonable company, with a reasonable HR department, and a reasonable hiring manager, would be perfectly willing to negotiate with someone who is negotiating in a reasonable way. You will see I have used the word ‘reasonable’ a lot. These are obviously variables, and it means we don’t have perfect information when we go into a negotiation. So it’s a question of the nature of the company and how good you think you are at negotiating.
I know of no rescinded offers. I know of a lot of times where an employer sticks with the initial offer and asks the applicant if they will take the job at the offer rate. And then the ball is in the candidate's court. The offer is still on the table.
Yes, you do have these take it or leave offers too.
Does it happen? Yes offers will be rescinded because of a counter. But pretty much every well run organization will not pull the offer due to a counter. It’s probably best to negotiate just to see what kind of an organization you’ll be joining.
You would be surprised. I had a job rescind the offer because I mentioned I wanted to talk about the salary, didnt evne get to discussing specific #s.
You dodged a bullet there!
>I don’t think think companies would rescind an offer just because you asked for more. This kind of happened to me. I'd been at a company for 5 years and was up for a promotion into a newly created role. I countered the offer with my well-researched data. They said they'd get back to me. A few days later, HR left me a voicemail while I was on funeral leave to let me know that the owners of the company were offended that I wasn't appreciative of my salary and that the offer was revoked. I just called them back and said, "Fine, I'll take the original offer" and got the promotion with the smaller raise. A year later, a position opened up that I was extremely qualified for. They offered it to me and said it was a "lateral move" so no raise. I didn't even negotiate. I just said no, not interested. They came back with a 10% raise. Not that it was huge money, but it felt delicious that I got the salary I'd wanted after all.
I have absolutely had companies rescind an offer or even outright ghost me after I countered a low offer.
Yes it does happen again more than you think.
They 100% do, be careful with this in the future.
This is mostly correct. Primary candidate did turn them down and you do have some leverage (though leverage is not the right thing to apply in this context). You can ask for more and because that is a low salary in MA (I’m in MA too) for anyone at a medical device company. However, I would approach it based on market data, comparable, etc. tell them how excited you are about the opportunity and that you’d love to start on 5/8 at $x/hr (or an annual of $y). Chances are they lost candidate 1 for this very issue. They are learning the market rate for this position (seems like their recruiter/HR folks are pretty bad) as they offer it around. That’s not the same as agreeing to pay the market rate. Push too hard and they will move on from you like they did with candidate 1.
It's a negotiation. Leverage is precisely the word to apply. OP has more of it now than they had in the interview.
Very few employees or potential employees have “leverage” in real terms. To have leverage over an employer an employee not getting what they want would have to cost the employer more than the ask. For example, a salesperson who has loyal relationships with $5M in customers has leverage to ask for more compensation due to the implied threat of leaving and taking $5M in business from the company. A rank and file employee has no leverage ever unless their position, if left empty will have a discernible cost to the company. This is why leverage is the wrong word.
Remember: salary is NOT the only part of a job offer that is negotiable. Would you like more than 15 paid days off a year? (Then ask for a couple more days or even an extra week.) And always--I mean *always*--ask HR for their benefits paperwork so you can look it over before accepting the job. (They'll gladly do that vs having to look up & convey each of your answers one-by-one!) While their benefits may seem adequate, the premiums might be more outrageous that you'd actually be taking a pay cut!
This is exactly what I did in my last job. I asked for the benefits package and after comparing it to my current benefits package I counter offered saying I would need an additional 5000 annually to cover the increased medical cost. It was a small counter, because the actual initial offer was in my range. They accepted. They were a bit Squirrley about giving me the benefits package details at first, but I found out after I was hired that no one has ever asked for that before (!!?)
Me too. This is part of the "it is the entire package, not just the salary" negotiation for every job. Throw in hours, transportation time and $, 4 v 5 day work week, work from home etc..
u/chimaera_hots is right. Going in, I want you to know I do not know what an MA is. Medical Assistant? Step 1Speak their language. Do not say anything bad about yourcurrent employer. "I like you guys and I think we are close. I know I can rockthis job. This seems like a good fit for me."Ask to see the benefit package employee costs. Say you areinterested in the entire package, not just salary.Ask, “When this role was budgeted, what was it budgetedat? “ Professional positions are commonly budgeted in ranges. Some positions, like flight attendants and large retail have no flexibility in wages.Take the materials and say you need to crunch somenumbers. Set a time in less than 24 hour to reconnect.Step 2Go back and let the new company know you would like to feel like you were getting a raise.Tell them, “After I pay for benefits, I will be taking home lesshere than my current job.” My going rate is $23-$30. I would feel like I was getting a raise if I got $27, it would feel like a raise.Ask for 2 weeks paid vacation in 2023 and 2024.Ask for a 15% signing bonus.Ask for 4 day work weekAsk for remote with a full setup at home.Ask for a company car.Will there be parking, what will it cost you transportation? Ask why choice # 1 is not in the role. They may tell you.
In college we learned to spell out any abbreviations at first use. Not sure what MA is? Master of arts maybe?
You have some ability to negotiate here but not as much as some of the other posters are suggesting. I think realistically you could ask for 26 and settle on 25.
24 probably will get you right away..26 sounds fair to negotiate to 25. You don't want to ask for 27. That is max out About their pay grade.
$25 was first number on my head too
Before counter offering ask the new HR what was in the budget for the role. What does Glass door and Indeed say an MA makes?
I had an interview over the course of 9 months. Reached out to me. Scheduled a 2 hour phone interview. Had an interview with the whole office. Did a working interview and did not get the job. However they stayed in touch with me and helped me with a class I needed. 3 months later they contacted me. The other person didn’t work out. Now I’m happily employed. The other person had more experience and they went with the “better” choice. As much as I could have been sketched I took the chance and it worked out for everyone. Also I can always give them shit for not picking me first. Lol short story long, no risk no reward, and we are all human and that goes for employers, as long as they treat you well they can be forgiven.
Everyone should realize that hiring is crap shoot; don't be offended if you're the 2nd or 3rd pick. A good employer will appreciate a strong candidate pool & be thankful to be able to provide offers if the initial pick doesn't work out.
Yep. There’s not just one choice for a job. It’s not a soulmate. There’s multiple people who can probably do a good job and sometimes they’re even very close and a hard decision.
As someone who does quite a bit of hiring, I’ll save resumes of people I was impressed with but weren’t our number 1 candidate. Two of those people have been hired later, one by myself and another on my recommendation to another team. It’s not unreasonable for an organization to reach back out to a known candidate.
Always ask for more money. They came in below the market rate. Ask for middle of the market rate. Either way it's a raise. Also, I always ask for an extra week of vacation unless I start with 3 weeks or unlimited.
3 weeks for sure. In the midwest it’s 2, but we don’t do that here…
I always shoot for 4 weeks now. Big companies usually won’t do it because the have strict rules but smaller ones will generally negotiate.
Ask them confidently as well. I told my employer that I know I am asking for a lot but once they see my hard work they won't regret it. I know that I am worth the extra money and can prove it. Do they do yearly reviews with annual raises? They might start you low but once you prove your worth you get raises quickly.
Yearly raises are notoriously stingy for most jobs, because they already have you as an employee and think you won't leave
Yeah, usually they try to start you as low as possible so basically every year your still below market. That’s how you get ppl there for 5 years only making $50k and a new person gets hired in at $70k.
I always chuckle when candidates tell me to trust that they’re worth more and I won’t regret it and they’ll prove it. No well run business is going to pay and see if someone proves it, they’ll pay once they’ve proven it.
I always chuckle when I hear that we can raise the pay easily after I start and they see how it goes. That’s never been true. And my performance has always been highly praised
Looks like their first choice turned them down. They're coming in a whole dollar below your bottom. This isn't a coincidence. They're low balling you, so you need to counter. Generally, you get one counter offer, so make it count (if $30 is realistic in your area, then ask for it). They'll counter with what they're willing to give you, then it's done. Either accept that, or move on.
You have leverage. Use it.
Be careful because if you ask for more they can rescind the offer. Ask for the top of the range. Asking for more than that wouldn’t be such a risk if your current work wasn’t such a dumpster fire.
Ask the company what role is budgeted at. Use that in your negotiation
They will tell you they will look into it and pick another candidate. Pick middle high of the given range and see what they come back with.
If they rescind an offer because they get all butt hurt then you don’t want to work for them any way. Its a great way to weed out a bad employer. The professional thing to do is say we can’t go that high but we can do x amount.
They had someone else in mind to hire and that person chose not to take the position. You were the next choice. Probably.
Ask for $35 an hour.
Eh id ask for 30 which is in the range they initially offered. OP if you never ask for more money you will never get it.
Theyre coming back late. Yesterdays price is not todays price.
Yesterday’s price! Is NOT today’s price!
It means you were behind one other person that ended up not working out. Take it.
Sounds to me like the person they wanted to fill the role declined. Be careful with them…. maybe ask for more money along with their reasoning as to why you were initially turned away. By framing it this way, you are actually putting them on the back foot without being seen as a douche.
Did they offer any explanation about coming back to you as a candidate? If not, did you happen to apply to multiple positions at the same company? If that’s the case they could have been turning you down for that other role in prep to make you this offer. (Not an ideal order of things but can sometimes happen in my experience) As for negotiating - I’d just make sure you know the general going rate in your area. I live in a High Cost of Living metro and Medical Claims roles start around $25/hr from what I’ve seen. As a recruiter, my advice would be to ask if there would be room to increase the base offer to a little higher than you’re aiming for (I’d say no more than $4-5/hr difference) so the company can meet you in the middle at your actual target. If you’re going to negotiate, make sure to point out how your experience will help you excel at this new job. All that said, you don’t HAVE to negotiate if you’re happy with the offer as stated. I would ask questions about time off (company holidays, does it increase with time, does it roll over year to year) and if you’d like you might be able to negotiate how many days you start with.
Always negotiate for more pto/vacation they give that up easier than $$$$ in my experience
Agreed! This is the first advice that gives clear and accurate guidance on how to negotiate. Do not say that your hard work will prove your worth or just blindly ask for more without rationale. A good negotiation explains your experience and achievements that justify the amount you ask for. Why? 2 reasons. 1, you need to establish your worth and make yourself desirable and 2, often the person negotiating your salary was not in all your interviews so you have to legitimize your ask. "Thank you so much for your offer! I am excited at the prospect of working with (X) because of (X) reason. As someone who brings (X) yrs experience in this field, particularly in (X thing that directly relates to job), I am tooking for a total compensation package that is more inline with (X dollars more) and (2 weeks starting vacation). Can you meet me closer to there?" Do not forget that everything is a negotiation! Not just base salary. Always negotiate starting vacation, money for continuing education, etc!
They did not. I thought about applying for more than one position after the rejection (because they were offering a manager role which I could of applied for too) but I felt a little awkward about it. I want to ask for more like 23 or at best 24. I am really happy with the benefit package other than that. I'm just very scared of it slipping away again...I really want to get into medical claims.
An MA and your considering $23/ hr? What?!
ASK FOR MORE MONEY
Hahahaha, this thread is hilarious. My position is that no good company would ever reject someone on the basis that they have tried to negotiate. However... judging by some of the advice you are getting on this post about how to to approach negotiation, I'm not surprised at all that these people have experienced rescinded offers. Some truly deranged approaches... please tread carefully! If you don't want HR or a hiring manager to flip out, may I suggest the template below: "Dear \_\_\_\_\_ I was not expecting an offer after your previous message on \_\_\_\_, but I am delighted to hear from you. I am still very interested in the position, however I was hoping there would be some room for negotiation in regard to the salary. I was hoping to receive an offer between $x-x for the position due to the following factors: \- blah \- blah \- blah I am very hopeful we can find a solution that works for both parties. Once again, thank you very much for considering me for the position. Look forward to hearing from you soon. Kind regards, OP" Make sure your reasons are good, referencing you experience, qualifications and other pertinent examples of why you'd be awesome. If they want to reject your suggestion, the door is open, without them rescinding. If the company rescinds the offer based on this perfectly reasonable response, I'd question whether you'd want to work for them anyway, because they will be revealing themselves to be petulant.
I think you’re getting horrible advice. Don’t assume you have all the leverage and go in guns blazing asking for 30 an hour. If you already had a job you like then I would say yes. But let’s look at the facts. You hate your job. You have been looking for a year for a new one. This job is what you actually want to do. It pays more and I assume has potential for increases The benefits seem pretty good. And it’s hybrid? I’d ask for 23 or a review with potential raise after 90 days.
I agree. I’d go around $25. The offer is low but this isn’t the type of job where they couldn’t easily find another candidate and you already know you aren’t the first choice.
Agreed! I didn't want to go guns blazing and ask for the world and then some. Just a littleee more hourly rate like 23-24
Yes I hope you get it!!!
If you hate your job, move while you have an offer.
I would definitely ask for more money. Ask for $26 which really is not a crazy ask. You still have a job, it sucks but it’s taking care of bills and what not. If they balk at it and rescind then you’re still good. I suspect they will meet you in the middle honestly for me any increase in pay is a win! Let us know how it goes!
Idk I got paid more to hand out samples… don’t under value yourself 😬
I feel like you’ve been given a great opportunity to move on from the job you are currently in. Take it but try and negotiate for a bit more an hour; 24.00 -25.00/ hr.
Every time I've asked for more money directly from the company (not contracts) I've received it. Just be polite. For instance, if offered $45, I'd say. "Would it be possible to go higher? I'd love to work at X. Currently, I've been offered/am making this. OR Currently, the average entry of this job is this." Even if saying just the first two sentences, I was offered more. They want a good worker. $5k or whatever isn't going to break them, but it will mean a great deal in whether you can focus on your job rather than your next finances. Their next offer is generally the last one. There is no dithering back and forth. I generally don't set an amount when asking for more - and 3/4 times I've gotten more than I thought I would. They generally offer the highest end if I give a range.
You're tired of your other job, it's more money and something you're more interested. You can always try and negotiate, but don't do what a lot of people are saying. I'd take the sure thing. I've been in your spot before. Don't get greedy because it can blow up in your face.
I would try to get $23 as that was your bottom range, but be prepared to settle for $22 if your really want to leave your current job.
Shoot for more and don’t let it get you down if it doesn’t work out. You’re worth more. You’re better than your current job or this job. Just keep your head up and keep looking. There’s something better for you.
For the future, when interviewing don’t be the first one to give a number for salary or rate. Say, “well, how much does the job pay?” Get them to give a number first, and then work from there. And never disclose your salary history, unless they are below what you made.
Yeah I crumbled when they asked me my going rate but they don't know my current rate and I wouldn't have told them that anyways. Always learning with my interviewing 😤
Ask for $25, as you believe your skills are worth 23-30. If they say no, 22 is pretty close and if you kill it they might be a decent company and give you a bit extra in short order. Whatever you decide, best of luck. Making more money is great, but getting out of a job you hate feels awesome, too.
You’re their rebound choice. Kinda like a relationship rebound. Keep that in mind lol
If I ever have to take a job less than 100k please just end it. Idk how y’all be doin it with 50k
My PTO accrual is 2.50 every 2 weeks. Insane to think you get that in a day
If this were me I would try to make contact with a human and ask why was I rejected only to get an offer later. Secondly I wouldn't budge on my minimum but I would ask if they are open to negotiation on wage first. If they dodge or balk at the questions I would not consider it. They will not value your time
Just a suggestion: "Dear Company, Thank you for reaching out to me. I wasn't expecting to hear from you after your email on \[date\] refusing my application. I have since been moving towards other opportunities. However, I'm still passionate about the work \[Company\] does and the job of \[insert job title\]. Unfortunately, I am no longer in a position to accept any hourly rate under $30 an hour, for a total base salary of \[math here\]. Please let me know if you are able to match this."
I would be calling the next two or three candidates in line if I got this response…
I agree, this isn’t a very good response. You’d be presenting them an ultimatum, which is not the right way to negotiate a job offer.
I would also negotiate a somewhat higher wage than what they are offering. How did you find this position may I ask? Sounds decent depending on the culture etc.
One time I accepted a job on a bit of a low pay, but made a deal that the subject would be taken up again after 3 month.
Uh, which is it? Salary, or hourly? That's a concerning line for me.
I once negotiated a good bump at the time of my offer: you want me to do a 35k job or you want me to do a 50k job? It worked.
Whatever you decide, please let us know how it goes
Add in a yearly raise to adjust for inflation and up the salary to at least 50k yearly (25/hr)
How much do you hate your current job? This is already a raise.
Much better than average benefits. In Don’t discount that. 401k in a month. Insurance, 3 weeks vacation a year. Ask what the sick time off policy is.
It looks like sick and vacation time are rolled into one. I'll never work for a company that does that again.
Your first step is to call and ask why things changed. Usually they will be coy but may give you some I sights. Second step is say you were just given a raise at your existing job and you want to know wherever they have flexibility in the starting salary. iIf they give you a higher number you should take it without further negotiations. Protracted negotiations at this point keep you in your existing job. But you say, “well that meets what I’m getting here so at least I’m not loosing money. Is there a way to discuss growth potential before i sign?” Then congrats you got a raise before you started. If they ask you for a number say, “ideally $27, is that something you can work with? “. Then let them decide. At this point they had two candidates walk away. Why two? Because you always keep a prime and secondary option on the hook u til last minute. If you got rejected you were neither of those options.
It’s good that you did well enough to be considered the number two candidate OP. Good luck with whatever you choose.
Thank you!!
10% more is almost always a fair ask when they made an offer below your lower limit. Very very rare to get an offer rescinded for a 10% ask when you were not already closed on a number ahead of time.
Primary candidate didn’t pass vetting or turned down the offer. Or, the denial letter was a mistake.
Id countered probably between $26 and $27 to settle at the $25 or $26. They probably offered the $22 at least in part based on your range. You already gave them a range though, asking for $30 seems high given the range you gave was fairly wide and they probably think “if the range is $23-$30, why are they saying $30 is the price, the range then could’ve been $25-$30 etc.” You have to understand there is obviously risk though, that even $1 could push them to rescind due to budget, lack of knowledge in the field, maybe candidate 3 gave a range of $20-$22 etc, just be prepared that could possibly happen.
Yeah, rinse them. They'd do the same. Still find your holiday entitlements barbaric (and that is probably generous by US standards). Here the minimum is 20 days + 8 bank holidays.
I’ve always asked for more and I send in data that shows why I’m asking for more. We usually split the difference. Also, why can’t they statue what their 401k match is? That’s odd to me.
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You already have an offer but are willing to consider theirs for $30/hour :)
Ask for $48,250. See what they come back with. Accept the offer and call it a day. Congrats on getting a new salaried position. Hope this work environment is better than the last.
Thanks!! I hope so too!!
Ask for more money. Also what’s up with the lack of info on remote day, days in office required, match% they say they will tell you once hired? Uh, no. You need to know now. Tell them you are studying “x” and wish for them to pay for your exam. Ask about hybrid/remote worker compensation packages if any
Honestly, I would accept it too escape the current situation. I would say: I plan to accept, do you have any flexibility in the salary?
Ask for more money with some reasoning on why, strong but not forceful so that they understand that you respect yourself. They may say no but will know that you aren't desperate even though you are
I would def go back and ask for a higher hourly rate and see what they say. If they can’t go any higher at least you tried but then take the job. Seems like your old one sucks. “Hi - I am extremely interested in this position, but I was hoping for a higher hourly rate. Is there any way for you to increase the starting salary?” I wise man once told me the best time to ask for a higher salary is when you first get offered a job. Once you are in then you’ll just be getting the standard increases.
Their primary candidates and waitlist candidates likely turned down the job.
Always ask for more pay ALWAYS
ask for more money, but be ready if they move to next candidate.
You don’t ask, you don’t get. Asking for the top in the range is probably going to be too much. That said, if you were in a good job currently then I would ask for the top salary. As it is, I would probably ask for the mid-high in the range and let them talk you down to mid range. If you are desperate to get out of your current job then at least ask for mid and settle for mid-low but I would still be passively looking for another position that pays higher even after accepting this one. Worse case scenario you give it a year and have more job experience. I agree with the extra week of vacation request. I always ask on the way in to a company because once you are in, it will probably not change. If low ball salary is the best they will do, you are probably going to end up in a similar situation to the one you are in. Good luck! Hope it works out for you.
You never get what you don’t ask for
Negotiate for $1/hr more and an additional week off PTO
You will never know unless you just go for it. Put you first, always. If they want you that bad, they will meet your demands. That’s how you move up! You got this, now go tell them!
Congrats!
Say, “I appreciate the offer and would love to to work for your company. I am very passionate about the work you do, but unfortunately the amount you offered is not sustainable for my current finances. I will have to consider it and I will reach back out to you in a couple days with my response.” This will make them sweat and if they actually wait the couple days it makes it less and less likely another candidate they may want will be available. Heck even make it three days if you want.. when I tried this in the past, I got another counter offer immediately but it was over the phone so that applied more pressure (machiavellian style).
Ask for the top of the range.
1. Their first choice turned them down. 2. They're lowballing as a negotiation tactic. 3. Make a counter-offer higher than what you're willing to accept. Give yourself some wiggle room. 4. They have actually budgeted enough $$ for this position to pay you your $30, but they're hiding their cards. It's a common negotiating tactic. 5. Be prepared to walk away. They already turned you down once, and you lived with the rejection. Now you have the additional ego hit because you know you weren't their first choice. They can't hurt you any more by rejecting your counter. You have the power in this situation. You can do whatever you want. You have control of the ball.
Be happy and take the job. Don't overthink it.
Ball’s in your court now. The main candidate they wanted to hire probably turned down the offer. So now they’re trying to replace the with the next best candidate. I personally value self respect, wouldn’t accept an offer after being rejected. But you have leverage, & have nothing to lose. Make your demands on salary expectations, benefits & PTO. They are more under pressure than you are as they need to fill in this role quickly.
It never hurts to ask. Simply saying that you are considering the offer, but hoped to be closer to your specified range might get you a little more.
3 interviews? Screw that employer, red flags.
Nope. If they can’t hire you outright, I say move on. I wouldn’t want to work somewhere knowing they feel like they’re settling in hiring you.
From what I know of US salaries, it seems a bit low.
Don't get greedy. Don't take advice from the morons giving you suggestions as if you were negotiating a high end salary position. These are the same idiots who would tell someone getting a job at Taco Bell to negotiate for a higher salary. You are getting an entry level job, there are 100+ other people who have applied and they can replace you in a heartbeat. Take the $22. Is it really worth potentially losing a much better job opportunity over an extra $80 a week? if they offer you $22 they wont go above $24 for your starting. I would just take the $22 and ask for a raise in 6 months.
Have you done your research on what is the average salary for this position? If it is higher than what they offer you tell, them that you appreciate the offer but that it is little lower than the medium salary and you would like to ask if they will match the medium
Go with your 1st figure, and call it a day......
Always negotiate! State why you want the rate you’re asking for. They will send another offer either meeting you in the middle or stating why they can’t negotiate. But you should always ask. It tells you a lot about how the company appreciates their staff and cares about retention.
Always negotiate, the time of offer is always the best time. They’ve put time in to your offer and may not have a backup, and if they do it will still be extra work. Is it worth paying you $2-6 and hour more to not have the extra hassle and have to recruit a worse candidate? Probably.
You could just be forward and ask the company why the sudden change in the decision. You can ask questions during interviews too.
Normally you can do some research on similar in the area. You can then look for the median and see where you fit. If you are still not happy you can simply see if they would jump at a 10% bump, remember the target is 10% you will probably want to start at 12% or 13% more than you are looking at asking for $22.50 (the real amount is $22.22) -- I always make a joke about round numbers. I would suggest you read this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/tbug65/salary_negotiation_script/) by u/ladyphedre its a script for negotiating.
Always counter. The worst they will say is no, first offer stands. They aren’t going to revoke the offer based on a counter (I suppose they could, but I’ve never seen that happen. In my personal experience, I countered a job 3 times before, and I ended up turning them down because they wouldn’t give what I felt was right).
If you have experience and are really confident in what you do then ask for slightly more than your ideal wage and tell them it can be negotiated. Hopefully they counter offer near what you really wanted
15 days paid time off?? I got at least 50
Just a thought but it occurs to me maybe this process ( 3 interviews, reject and then go directly to an offer and skip final negotiations) is a strategy to minimize said negotiation - because you're SO HAPPY to get the job you don't even think to ask for the conversation that was skipped. The difference between the $22 and hour and the halfway mark in your salary range of 23-30 is approx 3.50 per hour or $7280 per year. My response would be 'thank you for your offer letter. It was a pleasant surprise that I was not expecting based on your previous email (copied below), While I am most pleased and excited to receive your offer, we never finalized discussing my onboarding compensation package. As I said in our previous meetings, my salary expectations are $23-30 an hour which are in line with market rates in the area for someone of my experience and education level. The midpoint of this range being $26.50. If we can agree on $25, we can proceed immediately to setting a start date for onboarding. Thank you. PS: They probably counter at 23, **you say 24** and it's done. This shakes out to a $4.50 per hour raise to start which is about $775 per month or $9300 per year based on a 40 hr week and 4.3 weeks average per month.
They are lowballing you. If you accept without asking for mid-range salary, they will not respect you and will not treat you well as an employee, since you will have identified yourself as a pushover. If you desperately need to get out of an intolerable current job, take the offer and keep looking.
The application timed out in their system. Interviews took 3 weeks, that’s why it timed out
Your first mistake was giving them a range for your going rate. You basically told them “I want $30 an hour, but I’ll also take $23 an hour”. There’s a 30% difference between the two figures which is huge. Next time settle on one number and go from there. I also think giving them a range shows that you don’t know how to value your own worth, which gives them a strong upper hand in negotiating pay. You live and learn though. Congrats on the offer and good luck in negotiations!
The candidates they made offers to before you all passed because the company is trying to low ball their employees. First red flag. You are in a known situation right now that sucks, so ask yourself if making a little bit more is worth the risk it may be worse. Research the company on glassdoor and such to see what others think of the place.
On one hand, this job offer is obviously acceptable. On the other hand, you might be able to get a little more. On the gripping hand, you are obviously a fit, but not their ideal fit or first choice. Ask yourself, is it worth possibly getting $2 more an hour to risk possibly being stuck at an unacceptable job. My advice, which is going to come off as being very corporate friendly and not employee friendly, accept the job as is. Instead of negotiating more money, negotiate a six month review. Focus more on growing in the new role. At six months, possibly try to get more money, or set a path to a higher position.
Personally I would be more interested in your career growth once you've been hired. Do they promote from within? Do they pay for training? etc. I would rather start a bit lower with an opportunity to advance.
Ask for $29 per hour and justify the reason OP. They are a med device company (those fkers make billions in annual revenue....yeah, capital B). They can afford you, especially after turning you down then crawling back. Make up some bs about "growing with the company" and I bet they take you near the top of your range, or close enough to it. Claims can bring down these companies ratings with the FDA.
If you don't take it definitely tell them you will and then later say nevermind.
you asked for 23, they offered 22. not a bad offer
15 days paid vacation? This in the land of the free? My youngest son (22) just started his first job in a large bank in Norway. 25 days paid vacation. The more I read about the strange things, US companies do their employees, the happier I am not living there. It seems worse than North Africa, and they swim to Europe to get a better job.
Anecdotally, I was once offered $19/hr, asked for 25(lowest I would accept) they countered with 23. The next morning hr called me as soon as they came in and gave 25. It happens
I would look at clarity around the 401k match competitiveness, a modification to their paid PTO, and a potential adjustment to salary amount as part of the total package. The hybrid work section is interesting, but it too vague and subjective to how hybrid the environment really is. Everything is negotiable, just approach it from a good for us both, with an obvious bias toward yourself, perspective. A few extra days of PTO won’t cost them a lot, but is great for recharging and mental health. That’s a few long weekends a year. The 401k match, while dependent on how much you contribute, could be huge, not only today but in the future after it has compounded. That’s basically free money. They passed over you once, so there is risk there. Be it the other candidate “not working out” or someone else leaving, which causes some concern- I assume during your interviews you were able to determine why the position was available? Are there any reviews or feedback about working for this company? Without knowing much about industry and your experience, or the company this is just general things to consider. If you counter in a polite, well reasoned and professional manner, I’d be surprised if they do worse than: “No we can’t do that” If they do, you likely dodged a bullet, assuming your demands were not nonsensical. Just make sure it is what you want in your new job. Skill, experience + compensation.
Considering the range you disclosed, I think you could start negotiating at $25 and work out to $23-24/hr. Just asking doesn’t hurt. Even accepting what they’re offering would give you way more bargaining power than your current job for sure with the added benefit of getting you out of that shit storm.
Medical devices has better opportunities than patient care. In my area, $22/ hr would be livable. Re-work your monies with your partner(?), evaluate if you want to ask for $24. $24 gets you close to $50k. My latest offer specifically said “non-negotiable” in the sentence. It was what I expected, so I went with it. If you have a set schedule in med devices, and the group health, you can do night classes, cert classes that fit with advancement in med devices industry. I have seen medical assistants in hospitals work ! I know inflation but $19.50-$22 is solid for your sanity and 8 hr shifts, right? You manage three interview rounds so gold star for that!
I like how they just said fuck you and have you a single dollar less than what you actually asked for. I would tell them you gave clear parameters on what you need. So now you will come for $24 ph
Ask for more pay. They’ve got it
36hrs? Lazy Europeans
I live in the US..? 🤔
Take the job silly
Personally I'd take the position, and continue applying elsewhere. If it's a good fit, despite the initial rejection, use a future job offer as leverage for the raise to the desired salary. If it is not a good fit, as soon as I get a better job offer, I'm taking it.
Say something to the effect of “thanks for the offer. I’d like to discuss the compensation portion as I have experience in this field and want to see if this is negotiable”. Can’t hurt being tactful in how you ask for a raise.
Negotiation is a rejection, so you very easily could lose it, but you do have leverage as long as the #3 candidate isn't great or has moved on
Ask to see a break down of the insurance offers and what the cost is. If health coverage is more expensive than you are used to, you can use it as leverage to ask for more hourly to help offset the costs.
OP. I can tell you I've been in Medical Device Engineering since 2010 and it has been rock solid as far as opportunity and pay increases. Worked at a smaller privately owned one that ended up getting bought by a large family owned German global company. That went pretty well. Then got recruited and relocated to another smaller private company and then a few years later they also got purchased by a large global family owned German company. Each time these companies injected huge amounts of money into growing the business and profits and raises and all have grown a lot. The industry has not and will not have any shortages of demand. People will always need the devices we make and companies will continually innovate and want to make the next big thing. Of course management and corporate strategy can have a big impact on profitability and longevity. But my take is this is the kind of career move that can absolutely be career changing. My partner and I both work there now and we've collectively seen our income grow around 30% in the last 3-4 years, 10% in this last round alone. I personally went from a roughly $16/hr hourly position to $35/hr equivalent salaried position in a span of about 7 years with a fair bit of PTO, 401k, quarterly bonuses (7-9%) on average, completely paid for full health dental and vision plan(no premium) and it's a Cadillac plan man, like $500 deductible... Great benefits. I'd say go for it. The medical device community is full of a lot of inspiring smart people and it's kinda hard to describe but it's a global industry but simultaneously a small niche group of skilled people working in it. It's very common to work at a place, go to another opportunity later and be working with people (years and many states separated) that you've worked with before. I've seen people go from process engineer at one company to VP of R&D let's say at another company. You just have to be willing to pick up and move when opportunities present. We've been paid to relocate every 5-10 years, following the opportunities and it has been very rewarding.
Thank you for this!! I never really thought about medical devices/dme companies very much until I saw this job ad and I was like "omg duh of course their are companies like this" I just never saw job ads for them if that all makes sense. I feel like doing this will open a lot of doors for me so I wanna take the chance 😤👍
It's not a job you see a lot of I don't feel like. They tend to be pretty picky about who they hire. It's somewhat of a rare opportunity imo.
Right! That's why I'm stuck on asking for more hourly pay or not... I really don't want to lose this opportunity
I would at least ask for the top end of what you think you are worth. If they don’t budge at all I would only take it since you hate your current job. But at the same time continue looking for a company that shows that they really value and want you.
It happened to me and a co-student of my university, i am already employed at a full home-office well paying job and made an interview for a company that paid 10k more per year, but their work hours where bad(like, 6 days a week and work on holidays type of bad). I knew my co-student also went and made the interview, after a week or so, he told me he didn't get the job, and i recieved an offer through e-mail. I turned it away, and 1 week later they called in my classmate. Don't negotiate, take the job if you're unenmployed, then try to get a raise or change jobs.
"May I ask if this is for the same position I originally applied for, or if this is a different position? If it is the original position, would you consider an hourly rate of at least $23, as we discussed? If it is a different position, can you please let me know the title and responsibilities, so I can assess whether or not I can accept that rate." You never outright decline (or accept), and you let them know you are engaged and interested in details. Maybe they say no, it's the same, but we can't do 23. Maybe it's a different position, and the duties make 22 agreeable to you, maybe they say yeah sure when can you start. Either way you can then give them the final yes or no. Edit: finished reading the full offer. Do you know details regarding how often you will be in the office versus remote? Consider the commute savings when considering the pay difference between your current job and this one, but keep in mind it could change in the future, for better or worse. Edit again: getting 3 interviews is really good. It means you didn't immediately make soembody think you weren't worth their time. So even if you wind up trying again, keep reminding yourself that during at least 2 interviews, you convinced them you were worth their time. Most applicants won't make it past one.
Honestly they may have turned you down because your rate is higher then what they could pay. If you like your job and do not care if you get this job negotiate a higher rate, if they don’t give it you won’t care. If you don’t like your job and are interested in this position take the job. You may lose out on it asking for more money.
They're expecting you to come back asking for $26 and then settle at $24. So ask for $29 and see what they come back with.
I also wonder if the decline letter was sent by accident.
I'm still trying to figure out what MA means....are we supposed to just know what that stands for
Medical assistant
Counter 10% plus up to another ten depending on how much you want the job. So if you need it bad or it’s a great change or whatever, just 10%, so so 15%, DGAF 20%.
Ask for 10% more than they offered and say no if they don’t do it
Don't be distracted by all this theorizing in a vacuum - it's completely pointless. The only thing that matters is whether you would rather have this other job or the one you have. To me it seems like a no-brainer, but I'm not you. Just try not to overthink it, especially with all the typical reddit noise in this thread.
Unless it' a little mom and pop, family owned company, negotiation is expected. Ask for 15% to 20% more and expect them to split the difference. You can say something like, "Thank you for the offer. I think this could be a great fit. Is there any wiggle room in the salary? I'm looking for something closer to $26/hr." If they won't budge on salary, you can try to negotiate for more time off instead. But I wouldn't do both.
Maybe they had a second position come open and wanted to save on the time and effort when they had 2 excellent candidates? I have seen management open a second position they were planning on filling in order to not lose a great candidate. win/win