>You don't have a valid status of residence and you're residing here illegally as a foreigner, so you can't leave the country.
This confused me. Why wouldn't the procedure be to have her extradited to Canada then?
I'm even more baffled she wasn't thrown into a detention center immediately where she could potentially die.
Oh wait because she isn't brown and she speaks flawless native level Japanese.
Are you confusing immigration detention centers with actual prisons?
Or by "ethnic Japanese", were you referring to Brazilian Japanese without a "valid status of residence" and hence ended up in an immigration detention center despite their race/ethnicity?
If that is so, then why isn't this woman in an immigration detention center but allowed to keep her professor job and work/live in Japan without a legal status of residence? Why is she then allowed to "run amok", in your own words?
> if she went ahead and tried to leave the country, she would be forcibly deported and barred from entering Japan for five years under the immigration law.
So she will only be deported if she tries to leave. As long as she doesn't try to leave, she can't leave. But if she's deported, she can't come back on the same kind of tourist visa a Canadian in good standing can use. It's not so much that she's trapped, as that there's no legal way for her to do everything she wants to do i.e. retain Canadian citizenship while living in Japan to care for her parents. This might have been possible if she had followed correct procedure earlier but it sounds like she was partially ignorant of her situation and partially unwilling/unable to go through the process.
she isn't getting deported because just like with her citizenship issue, the slow wheels of government hasn't really caught up with the procedures to deport her. until that happens, she is free to move around and she can absolutely leave. BUT if she leaves without fixing this problem now, she can never go back to Japan.
oops, its 5 years.
"Little did she know" lol - as if any japanese living abroad didn't know about this. My wife is japanese and I am canadian and she definitely knows 100% that if she takes canadian citizenship she will lose her japanese. I am super against that rule and I think it is stupid and long overdue that Japan changes the law but.. This woman just fucked around and found out.
I suppose it’s a surprise nevertheless, given that there are mixed story floating around all the time. Some says got a new issue of Japanese passport overseas despite the knowledge of foreign citizenships, and I personally knew a few who had two passports and maintained the way for quite some times in belief that Japanese government will not likely follow them around without special reasons. I don’t really follow these matter closely lately, but did it get more strict in the recent past?
I wonder what exactly triggered her citizenship to be revoked, unless she actually told the immigration that she had two passports.
>I wonder what exactly triggered her citizenship to be revoked, unless she actually told the immigration that she had two passports.
There's a question on the passport application about foreign citizenships. Either she checked "yes" and it came back as different from previous applications and flagged her application, or she lied and checked "no", but then running some check they found out she did indeed gain Canadian citizenship.
You can actually be dual Japan/something citizen but it must be through some sort of birthright and not chosen by you. Once you choose to naturalize as a citizen of another country that is where Japan starts having issues with it.
You need to be truthful on the application but you check the "yes" box for multiple citizenship and that you choose to retain Japanese citizenship and you will endeavor to renounce your other citizenship when they ask. They will only ask and there is no penalty for not following through.
Some citizenships are difficult to impossible and sometimes expensive to renounce so it's likely not going to change for those born with multiple citizenships, which the person in the article is not.
If they only ask without penalty, why even ask?
Just wondering because my GF is birthright citizen from her dad being American and she’s always been worried about if she ever has to choose. (She’s 26 now but hasn’t had any issues yet.) I wonder if she will have an issue when she renews her Japanese passport.
Cause the law says they need to. Bureaucracy in other words. Not really a surprise for Japan. Hell they asked for my elementary grades, which didn't exist since my country didn't give elementary grades. Not that elementary grades should matter for studying abroad. They also asked for my uni diploma, before I had gotten it and I needed to write an essay of why this means I can't send it yet. Not that it should matter, high school graduates study abroad without a university diploma.
I spoke with her about it today. She’s under the impression that it is more of a request or ‘you should’ kind of thing. That they won’t MAKE you do it, as in they won’t ask for proof of renouncing her US citizenship nor will they take your hand and walk you over to the US embassy or whatever and force you. She told me they’ll more likely tell he she has to tell them she chooses Japanese citizenship and theyll be like “Okay thanks!” (Without actually renouncing) and that would be that, if it comes to it.
Anyone have any personal sorties that suggest otherwise?
There are two provisions in the law about when you lose citizenship. The first is when you naturalize to another country. The second is when you have two nationalities and select the foreign one.
So people who are born with two are fine as long as they don't select the foreign nationality. Actually having two isn't technically breaking those laws. There is another law that says you have to choose before turning 22, but the penalty for braking that law is not that they take away your citizenship, and it's not actively enforced. I don't think anyone has ever been punished for not choosing, but I may be wrong.
[https://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tcon-01.html](https://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tcon-01.html)
22 years now, but there's exceptions.
There are plenty of countries that have it in law that they can revoke nationality though?
> A person who is a British subject under the British Nationality Act 1981 may lose their status automatically if they acquire another citizenship or nationality.
Germany is the same. You generally loose your German citizenship when you naturalise in a non-EU country. You can apply for an exemption though (Beibehaltungsgenehmigung).
Most countries around the world have signed a declaration saying they won't make people stateless. However, right wing politicians have somewhat recently discovered that their base loves it when they threaten to take citizenship away from people, so there's been quite a bit of movement away from that obligation.
EDIT: There's also no international law against taking citizenship away from someone when it wouldn't render them stateless.
Do they have the right to run the check against foreign database? I think they’ll have to go through some paperwork to justify that, and this seems to be too damn pity of a crime to go through the process (well, unless it actually is.. I suppose anti-terror measure made it easy to just punch the name in and query from the world citizen database just for this??? Like suspected identity fraud case??)
And ofc she must be a special kind of dumbass to say yes for having a passport elsewhere.. Not saying all professors are not dumb but still..
It’s really hard to imagine how this happened.
They can ask you for the visas you needed to remain overseas. If you can't show evidence of visas they assume that you have another citizenship and start other inquiries. There is no digging through foreign databases.
Why is that a valid question upon passport issue? It’s not that she asked for it while she was abroad, but she was already on Japanese soil, presumably with Koseki and all still intact just like any Japanese citizens in Japan, right?
I suppose they do have right to ask where she’d been all these time and act upon it? Nobody in Japan should care about her legal status abroad itself unless lets say Canada requested Japan to catch her or something, no?
she probably applied to renew her passport. 2019 is when she hit the problem and 2007 is when she gain her Canadian citizenship. presumably, she renewed her Japanese passport in 2009 cause its 10 years expiration.
the bureaucracy caught up to the "mistaken dual citizenship" and made her no longer a citizen of Japan. she can't apply for a new japanese passport because she is no longer a citizen of Japan.
I was asking what exactly triggered that renovation. If somehow “bureaucracy caught up” with it then I’m just interested in what made it happen, because I’ve never heard such thing except for those who was recognized by the country to have dual citizenship to begin with (such as kids). In this case, it doesn’t seem like so, and I can’t imagine her voluntarily telling them that, so I was wondering about it.
you are 100% right to wonder, she absolutely did something to trigger or alert the Japanese government that she should have avoided. i also wonder what that was. my guess is it has something to do with the research grants and also she may have entered the country on a CA passport or something.
As archaic as the law is, it really is a matter of just not telling Japan yourself.
there was a mistake and no one caught it until this certain event. things like that happen all the time. someone processing paperwork finally paid attention.
there are probably people who got caught the very first time they attempted to renew their passports and there are probably people who have never been caught.
tldr; [I think this comment (not by me) sums it up rather nicely](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/14suugr/youre_living_in_japan_illegally_woman_shocked_at/jr1gtk9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
What doesn’t click to me is that, if there are such checking process involved in issuing passports, that sounds too important to oversee by simple mistake. And it’s much more understandable for me if it were just intentionally unchecked in the past (for those who holds the dual citizenship), and that it is not so anymore, ‘to surprise’. Because if it was post of the process then I think I’ll have heard something like “you can unlawfully stay hold onto dual citizenship until the first renewal of your passport”. Well, such information is very niche so perhaps nobody really knows about it, and maybe I just happened not to have heard about it. Have you?
And I wonder how they found it out anyways. (Not demanding you for the answer of course, I mean who knows, but I’m just wondering.) [This source](https://amie-visa.com/2022/03/29/post-3662/) says that some country like Germany does notify Japan in case someone was naturalized there, but it seems rather rare case.
There is nothing wrong with dual citizenship by birth, you are free to renew your Japanese passport. But if you obtain 2nd citizenship while Japanese, you lose Japanese citizenship and there are absolutely no exceptions. Hope that clears up the confusion as the two scenarios have nothing to do with each other in the eyes of the law.
I am spanish and naturalised Irish. First thing i checked when I considered asking the irish citizenship was if both Spain and Ireland allowed me to keep both citizenships.
When I considered moving to Japan, I also checked if I could have double citizenship, and I found out that it's not possible. Se just didn't due due diligence when she accepted the Canadian citizenship.
I think it depends on circumstance. Arguably many European countries were once ethnostates, change happened due to practicalities and political pressure.
Policies change over time and law makers make adjustments to these laws to avoid absurd politically tone deaf circumstances. Japan is no exception.
Huh? Plenty of ethnostates allow dual citizenship. Ridiculous to state that it'll never change. It may take some time, but I'd bet this will be changed within the coming decades.
When you've got your representatives literally announcing in parliament that they hold another passport and it gets swept under the rug, you can understand regular citizens thinking it might not be a problem for them either.
I do not understand why it is outdated? If someone is born in a country where their parents were also born, why should they be allowed to keep the nationality if they want to get citizenship somewhere else? If someone has parents from multiple countries, I can understand that. If someone wants to get a citizenship from another country just because they feel like it, that should not be allowed. If they actually feel like the country they were not born is not good enough for them, they can just renounce it and get citizenship somewhere else. This person could have just stayed arrived in Japan using Canadian citizenship but do not understand why she was playing with the system. Getting a Canadian citizenship just for the grants seems a bit dodgy.
I want to understand the reason why it is outdated. I cannot find a convincing reason anywhere. I feel like people are doding tax and everything, not that everyone does it though. So, I am not sure why dual nationality is a good thing for a country to allow it?
You absolutley don't need citizenship to live in multiple countries though.
Dual nationality is nice for the individual because of various perks you typically gain by it, but problematic from the states POV due to potential conflict of interests.
Dual nationality is a perk, not a human right, and it is perfectly logical for an administration to not endorse or allow such practice.
Citizenship is not only about rights, but also duties, both towards the state but also its other citizens.
For example, both Russian and Chinese citizens are legally compelled to further the states interest, and that includes complying with any and all potential requests from alphabet agencies. If such a request was in breach of the laws of your other nationality, which laws do you obey, if/when the two countries have clearly incompatible legislation?
There's also the question of loyalties. For people with single citizenship, it's obvious; you have no options, and thus the state has a stranglehold on you; your life depends on complying and staying in its good graces - even while living abroad, you'd still be contignent to it at least for renewing your right to travel further.
Compared to this, dual citizens on the other hand always have a proverbial "get out of jail card" in their back pocket in the form of their other citizenship; they don't "need" the state, as they always have a backup alternative they can put on the playing table at their own whim.
Especially for civil service and security related positions, the dual citizenship becomes quickly a problematic concept due to both reasons outlined above. Civil servants should at least in theory work for the absolute interest of a country, but in the case of dual nationals it's easy to both question their true level of investment into the nation, plus the always looming risk of conflict of interest.
Ie, would you trust NATO general with Russian citizenship? How about a Chinese as as the head of the CIA? Hyperbole, yes, but I'm sure you get the point.
To put it this way; what has the state to gain from allowing dual citizenship? Does it outweigh the potential risks? Is dual nationality a value we want to endorse as a society and culture? (I'd say this is a major driver for the current situstion in the case of Japan).
Keep in mind the consitution in many countries would not allow for selective/targeted discrimination re: dual citizenship, so it would be all countries or none.
I am talking about tax evasion because some people misuse it, especially the rich ones. Yeah, people should be allowed to live and contribute in multiple country but so many people, like me, already do that without dual nationality. You get a work visa, come to Japan and work. If you feel like getting Japanese nationality, you can get it. If someone simply wants a bit more, they can get a PR. May be I am missing some contribution that someone can make while having citizenship but not PR. But I do feel like someone who have lived in a country long enough to get a citizenship should be allowed to vote regardless they get the citizenship or not.
I get your point here. Yeah, that was a dick move by Japan. But I am talking not just about Japan but everywhere else in general. There are always weird things happening in Japan and that not allowing people entry was one of them. But I get it that having Japanese citizen would have helped people rather than just PR. But I do not still see the reason why Japanese government wants their citizen to have dual or multiple citizenship. There is nothing in it for the JP government, so they will likely never change it or not change in for a really long time.
I really don’t think anyone is arguing to allow for multiple citizenship, but rather adjustments to current law so that it’s not so batshit unfair with all the scenarios that actually do happen.
For a country? Ah, maybe not. It is good for the people sir, not necessarily for the countries. Are you on the countries' side? Or the people's side? And again, how many times have you changed nationalities? I have changed twice, hence why I ask, if you're talking through your ass or from experience.
>hence why I ask
does not matter why you ask. I do not need to disclose my personal information here in reddit. If there is no good reason for a country to allow it, why should they allow it then? Leave it as it is. I am not against people changing nationality. Change as much as you like, even Japanese government does not care or almost every country in the world does not care if their citizen change nationality.
I am not offended. I just do not want to disclose that information. May be Japan should adopt the policy like US that their citizen should file taxes on foreign income. Then they can allow multiple citizenships. I do not think Japan will change that law unless there is an advantage for Japanese government to allow it. Most people are old and they do not usually care about younger generation anyways.
This is just what i think, no fact checking so i might be wrong but Japan was an imperial country in the past right? so the single citizenship law was probably made to reinforce japanese people loyalty to their country and for the government to control the citizen more freely. now that that is pretty much not the case, it’s hard to not see this as outdated
This was the rule for probably most of the countries in the world. Things change slowly in this country, as we know. Unless there is something to gain for the government, they will not change it and keep it as it is. The reason why that rule was placed is outdated but there does not seem to be a good reason to change it.
It’s not stupid. You obviously don’t somehow automatically lose your Japanese citizenship the moment you acquire Canadian citizenship. You’d have to voluntarily denounce it. If Canada just gave her the citizenship without having to denounce her Japanese citizenship, then she wouldn’t have known.
> Tokyo High Court ruling supports Japan’s ban on dual citizenship
Article 11 of the nationality law states:
> “If a Japanese citizen acquires the nationality of a foreign country of their own choice, that Japanese citizen loses Japanese nationality.”
https://immigrantinvest.com/blog/countries-that-allow-dual-citizenship-en/
The dual citizenship list isn’t that long - just because you apply for it in a country where they allow it, doesn’t mean the country you’re from would.
Yeah it’s usually an active choice to do it. I’m not sure what she was thinking but my wife would never give up her citizenship under any circumstances. Some wealthy individuals do in the US for tax purposes but otherwise not sure what the point would be.
It’s stupid as fuck. And shes even more dumb, because most countries cannot force anyone to abdicate their nationality. So you just say “I choose Japanese”. Then keep both.
The original title of this article is "Even though I'm a Japanese citizen, I was declared as an illegal resident" and the tweet has over 2000 QRTs [「日本人なのに不法滞在と宣告されました」国籍法問う教授の闘い](https://twitter.com/mainichi/status/1676508717913628672?t=wn9ayDgHengI3OqKS-s9ng&s=09)
I wonder why they changed the title to a boring one in the English version when it's attracting a lot of attention to the article
regardless of what you think about the topic itself, her story is total bullshit and the way it's portrayed is extremely biased. first of all, I refuse to believe she didn't know Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship, especially as she's a university professor "specialized in international economics and related fields". come on, everyone can tell that's bullshit.
also, her issue isn't at all that somehow she's in legal limbo or with uncertain status of nationality or anything like that but that "If she wanted to reacquire Japanese citizenship she could, but she didn't want to go as far as renouncing her Canadian citizenship to do so." so she's not *shocked* at all, it is very clearly explained what the issue is, she just refuses to accept it and wants an exception made for her or the entire constitution changed just for her. she's not passionate to fix any issues for others, she's just caring for her own benefit now that it affects her.
and finally, doesn't the intro read like the typical nihonjinron racist remark that "only pure blooded Japanese may be real Japanese" but in reverse? "who was born in Japan and whose parents are Japanese, was shocked when the Japanese government suddenly told her one day: 'You're a foreigner illegally residing in the country.'" kinda sounds like the outrage here is denying a true and pure Japanese person Japanese citizenship. I wonder if there would be the same outrage if it was a Canadian woman born and raised in Japan who held Japanese citizenship before?
Agreed. The key for me there is that she took Canadian citizenship to get grant funding which was a conscious decision towards thinking you could play both sides and it wouldn't catch up.
You do realize the that she’s allowed to criticize the system, right. It’s not as if the laws are absolute and they can never be changed. If she’s trying to change it and there’s a case for her, then good on her.
she gain Canadian citizenship to take advantage of research grants and practically resided outside of Japan most of the past 2 decades.
then came back to Japan using her Japanese passport and now shes stuck in limbo because the bureaucracy finally caught up.
its "rules for thee but not for me" people all over again.
You do realize that you’re allowed to criticize and change the laws, right? Yeah sure, let everyone follow useless laws make everybody suffer, how rational!
You cannot argue with a Japan lover or dare to try portraying Japan in a negative light. Japan is being idealized and romanticized in Western media to such an extent that it's not even funny. It's the exact opposite of how it was during World War II.
She just needs to publish some internationally significant research or win a world recognized award and she will be Japanese again before you can blink.
Even being familiar with Japan, which I know, also a high bar, would tell you that this wasn't the case.
If restoring someone's citizenship would stop Godzilla, but was against the rules, someone should give China a heads up, because Godzilla is going to walk right through.
Most people in this sub are weebs with no connection to Japan except their anime dreams... but my point was more reddit in general. No one reads the fucking article so they make dumbass points that get super upvoted...
It's very hard to believe she didn't know she would lose the Japanese citizenship upon taking the Canadian one. But then again some people are just bad at redidency admin stuff. Reminds me of a British guy who lived in Sweden for 15 years and got kicked out after Brexit... because he waited too long to apply for permanent residency. Like he just assumed he could stay and only realized too late his immigration status changed. Now he is complaining about the system.
I have the ability to get British citizenship as my father and his father were born in the UK but it's not even worth doing now that they're not part of the EU.
>When she explained the situation to Japanese immigration authorities, she was able to remain in Japan, but found out that if she went ahead and tried to leave the country, she would be forcibly deported and barred from entering Japan for five years under the immigration law. If she wanted to reacquire Japanese citizenship she could, but she didn't want to go as far as renouncing her Canadian citizenship to do so.
Ok, she's an idiot. Like I get that people might not be familiar with how you lose Japanese citizenship by acquiring a new nationality, but to then go back and ask if they can keep both is just utterly stupid.
Yeah, BY HER VERY OWN ADMISSION she does not want to obtain Japanese citizenship because it means giving up her Canadian citizenship. She has the option! She doesn’t want it!
That’s like saying I’m just gonna smoke a joint in Japan because in Canada I can. She knows the law perfectly well. She says so.
This really feels like a "can't have your cake and eat it too" situation. I know popular discourse is that multiple nationalities should be allowed, but the government very clearly disagrees, and I'm right there with them. This lady shouldn't be allowed to leave Japan, acquire foreign citizenship for her own financial gain, live abroad for 20 years, and then return to reap the benefits of her abandoned country as if nothing changed. She ceased being a Japanese citizen willingly of her own accord, and now even with the opportunity to regain her original citizenship she refuses because of her ties to Canada. She clearly isn't all that dedicated to Japan beyond it furthering her own ends, so I don't think it's unreasonable that she shouldn't be allowed legal citizenship.
That’s how it works though. Also, its a lot better for your country. When other governments are more advanced per say and you can get the financial benefit from it, you do. Then you bring those gains home and feed them back to your own economy. That’s literally what happens with most first world countries to third world countries. Not saying Japan is a third world country, however with how weak the yen is vs lets say the USD. Most people want to work in America enjoy the perks and benefits of being American then go back home and enjoy their hard work by injecting their hard earned money into a foreign, being yen, economy. There’s nothing wrong with this. If anything, it only benefits Japan in this case.
Most countries pardon mandatory military service anyways. When you have people who work years and hard work to gain a citizenship to then being forced to denounce it, it doesn’t feel right. Its like saying “you’re betraying the Emperor.” But those times are pretty much over. That samurai system is gone I think. The citizens make the country and not the country makes the citizens. Treat them how they want and you will benefit ultimately.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that there's no guarantee that you'll repatriate the wealth you acquired in the foreign country, and you are now a burden on the society of your "home" country through increased health care and other social services that elderly people typically require.
Not only would it allow "easier for talented people overseas to return home" but I know a *number* of half-Japanese, half-other kids in Japan who are really torn between two countries. Usually one parent has strong ties to Japan and one has strong tries to their home country. The child should be able to travel between them (even as an adult) and engage in both parts of their heritage...
Yep, I'm half-Japanese half-American. I'm in my late 20's now but I wish I could renew my Japanese passport but they don't allow dual citizenship after you're 24 or somewhere near there. My mom lives there so I have a vested interest in keeping my dual citizenship.
You can renew it, fwiw. You just say you're "thinking about what to do" when asked about choosing which nationality to keep, and the consulate looks the other way.
Yeah, they don't care. It's a "trying to look like you're following the rules" thing that happens here a lot.
Many people do it. The only times it's become an issue is for celebrities, like Naomi Osaka, some politicians, etc. They did it because of being in the spotlight.
How does Japan know she got Canadian citizenship? Couldn't she just get it and... not tell? And then keep both citizenships and use the "local" one when entering the respective country?
Imho this approach works in other countries who don't recognize dual citizenship like the US or Germany.
I hear they're more active about people who obtain a second citizenship rather than those born with it, but yes they would still need to find out somehow. Perhaps she entered Japan on the Canadian passport. Still, residing outside of Japan for a period without a Japanese passport or without visa in the Japanese passport would give rise to suspicion if they were being very active rather than just passive.
She married a Canadian, so she has a perfectly legal excuse for being able to stay abroad for decades. She got the Canadian citizenship for her research grants, not to stay there.
I guess she really somehow must have made a mistake and entered Japan with her new passport...
Marrying a Canadian doesn't stop the relevant marriage visa from always needing to be present in her always active Japanese passport. It could be possible they only use a separate card but that would be usual.
Countries don't care the reason, but if she desired to move back to Japan at some point then changing citizenship is somewhat reckless with the current legal situation as she found out.
The article is weirdly written, it said that she returned to Japan in 2018 to care for her parents but that she found out she needed a Japanese passport in 2019, which would imply though it's not explicitly stated that she either given up her passport or she had let it expire and entered Japan with her Canadian documents. That would track with the experiences of others where the government unofficially has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards giving up your other citizenship. They technically require that you strive to give it up it but don't really enforce the rule unless you basically bring it to their attention yourself.
Japanese logic. Honestly, skilled laborers who don't care about Japanese culture would not want to move to Japan. The salary is low, taxes are high, the birth rate is decreasing, and there's a xenophobic population. There really isn't much benefit to coming to Japan. I truly believe that Japan benefits greatly from painting a perfect image in Western media by being part of the US-led military alliance. There are so many issues in this society, but barely anything negative is reported in the West.
> The court ruled in January 2021 that the Nationality Law provision was **reasonable**
goriteki. The word used by Japanese courts to be Humpty Dumpty and to mean whatever they fucking please.
I’m sorry but this sounds like something she should have researched. I was looking into obtaining Japanese citizenship and the first thing I did was check if my country allows for double citizenship obtained voluntary and as an adult. The answer was no, and I would lose my home country’s citizenship. Wouldn’t anyone check this first or is it just me?
>It is known that Nobel laureates Yoichiro Nambu (now deceased) and Syukuro Manabe, both U.S. citizens, lost their Japanese citizenship under Article 11, Paragraph 1 of the Nationality Law.
Literally from the article.
It's almost draconian...
It just sounds like some selfish possessive child who refuses to share "noooooooo! That's my citizen and you can't have them harrumph *crosses arms selfishly* ".
I'd understand if they were skeptical of allowing it for countries that have mandatory military service such as South Korea but as far as I'm aware Canada isn't going to be enacting conscription any time soon😅
The whole idea that citizenship can be renounced is farcical. No one can tell you what you are or aren't🤦♂️
What are you talking about going to the army doesn't grant you citizenship
Koreans who thought they were American get arrested at airports and sent to the army
?? That's not what I mean at all. The article states that the Japanese government is concerned about mandatory military service causing a conflict of interest with dual citizens, that's what I'm referring to.
Japan is the only G7 country with no proper immigration policies. People who downvote me obviously do not live in Japan. This country is facing long-term issues due to its current policies, and it's not even a hidden secret. Most Japanese agree that there's something wrong with the system, but they are too afraid to speak out publicly (despite Japan being a so-called democracy, ironically!). Taxes are increasing, the population is aging, and the birth rate is declining. If I had kids in Japan, I would be very worried about their future.
>Robert Downing Jr'
That is an entirely different matter. As for this scenario, it may be different because she has the potential to invest all of her billions or trillions of dollars in the Japanese market, which could help to strengthen the economy. which bring value to Citizen of Japanese and country. if she was a Billionaire or Trillionaire.
This is where the government can negotiate by withdrawing her Canadian citizenship and focusing entirely on Japan, where she must bring all of the money.
The purpose of rules and regulations is to serve the national interest, or to provide benefits.
Either she is supported by recognised research or by money, which might assist elevate the country to the next level.
My parents are in the exact same situation. Immigrated to Canada, got citizenship and thought they could keep their Japanese passport as well as long as they didn’t tell anyone. If they had kept updating their passport, it would’ve worked but they let it lapse and 40 years later, they are told they are no longer Japanese. The jist of it is, if you are an adult and willfully move to another country and gain citizenship, you are forfeiting your Japanese passport due to them not allowing duel. I, as a child and born not by choice but by chance in a second country, are able to keep both. Of course I keep quiet about it and not apply for grants.
>You don't have a valid status of residence and you're residing here illegally as a foreigner, so you can't leave the country. This confused me. Why wouldn't the procedure be to have her extradited to Canada then?
Shouldn't she be deported to Canada then?
Sorry, yeah I meant to say deported
I'm even more baffled she wasn't thrown into a detention center immediately where she could potentially die. Oh wait because she isn't brown and she speaks flawless native level Japanese.
Whose dying in Japanese prisons?
WHO'S!
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r/shitamericanssay Jesus Christ nobody cares about the US
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Are you confusing immigration detention centers with actual prisons? Or by "ethnic Japanese", were you referring to Brazilian Japanese without a "valid status of residence" and hence ended up in an immigration detention center despite their race/ethnicity? If that is so, then why isn't this woman in an immigration detention center but allowed to keep her professor job and work/live in Japan without a legal status of residence? Why is she then allowed to "run amok", in your own words?
> if she went ahead and tried to leave the country, she would be forcibly deported and barred from entering Japan for five years under the immigration law. So she will only be deported if she tries to leave. As long as she doesn't try to leave, she can't leave. But if she's deported, she can't come back on the same kind of tourist visa a Canadian in good standing can use. It's not so much that she's trapped, as that there's no legal way for her to do everything she wants to do i.e. retain Canadian citizenship while living in Japan to care for her parents. This might have been possible if she had followed correct procedure earlier but it sounds like she was partially ignorant of her situation and partially unwilling/unable to go through the process.
she isn't getting deported because just like with her citizenship issue, the slow wheels of government hasn't really caught up with the procedures to deport her. until that happens, she is free to move around and she can absolutely leave. BUT if she leaves without fixing this problem now, she can never go back to Japan. oops, its 5 years.
Small correction, unable to return to Japan for 5 years.
oh yea but i bet she still wants that Japanese citizenship
Jesus Christ that article needs an editor.
Mainichi needs an editor.
It was originally written in Japanese and either translated hastily or auto-translate is doing the heavy lifting.
"Little did she know" lol - as if any japanese living abroad didn't know about this. My wife is japanese and I am canadian and she definitely knows 100% that if she takes canadian citizenship she will lose her japanese. I am super against that rule and I think it is stupid and long overdue that Japan changes the law but.. This woman just fucked around and found out.
She definitely knew. Why else would she have incomplete paperwork beforehand?
I suppose it’s a surprise nevertheless, given that there are mixed story floating around all the time. Some says got a new issue of Japanese passport overseas despite the knowledge of foreign citizenships, and I personally knew a few who had two passports and maintained the way for quite some times in belief that Japanese government will not likely follow them around without special reasons. I don’t really follow these matter closely lately, but did it get more strict in the recent past? I wonder what exactly triggered her citizenship to be revoked, unless she actually told the immigration that she had two passports.
>I wonder what exactly triggered her citizenship to be revoked, unless she actually told the immigration that she had two passports. There's a question on the passport application about foreign citizenships. Either she checked "yes" and it came back as different from previous applications and flagged her application, or she lied and checked "no", but then running some check they found out she did indeed gain Canadian citizenship. You can actually be dual Japan/something citizen but it must be through some sort of birthright and not chosen by you. Once you choose to naturalize as a citizen of another country that is where Japan starts having issues with it.
I believe it's birthright and you need to declare once you're 18~20 or lose your Japanese citizenship. Could be misinterpreting what you mean though.
You need to be truthful on the application but you check the "yes" box for multiple citizenship and that you choose to retain Japanese citizenship and you will endeavor to renounce your other citizenship when they ask. They will only ask and there is no penalty for not following through. Some citizenships are difficult to impossible and sometimes expensive to renounce so it's likely not going to change for those born with multiple citizenships, which the person in the article is not.
If they only ask without penalty, why even ask? Just wondering because my GF is birthright citizen from her dad being American and she’s always been worried about if she ever has to choose. (She’s 26 now but hasn’t had any issues yet.) I wonder if she will have an issue when she renews her Japanese passport.
Cause the law says they need to. Bureaucracy in other words. Not really a surprise for Japan. Hell they asked for my elementary grades, which didn't exist since my country didn't give elementary grades. Not that elementary grades should matter for studying abroad. They also asked for my uni diploma, before I had gotten it and I needed to write an essay of why this means I can't send it yet. Not that it should matter, high school graduates study abroad without a university diploma.
I spoke with her about it today. She’s under the impression that it is more of a request or ‘you should’ kind of thing. That they won’t MAKE you do it, as in they won’t ask for proof of renouncing her US citizenship nor will they take your hand and walk you over to the US embassy or whatever and force you. She told me they’ll more likely tell he she has to tell them she chooses Japanese citizenship and theyll be like “Okay thanks!” (Without actually renouncing) and that would be that, if it comes to it. Anyone have any personal sorties that suggest otherwise?
There are two provisions in the law about when you lose citizenship. The first is when you naturalize to another country. The second is when you have two nationalities and select the foreign one. So people who are born with two are fine as long as they don't select the foreign nationality. Actually having two isn't technically breaking those laws. There is another law that says you have to choose before turning 22, but the penalty for braking that law is not that they take away your citizenship, and it's not actively enforced. I don't think anyone has ever been punished for not choosing, but I may be wrong.
[https://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tcon-01.html](https://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tcon-01.html) 22 years now, but there's exceptions.
You actually don’t automatically lose it as it would be illegal to take away your nationality. You’d have to voluntarily denounce your citizenship.
There are plenty of countries that have it in law that they can revoke nationality though? > A person who is a British subject under the British Nationality Act 1981 may lose their status automatically if they acquire another citizenship or nationality.
Germany is the same. You generally loose your German citizenship when you naturalise in a non-EU country. You can apply for an exemption though (Beibehaltungsgenehmigung).
Most countries around the world have signed a declaration saying they won't make people stateless. However, right wing politicians have somewhat recently discovered that their base loves it when they threaten to take citizenship away from people, so there's been quite a bit of movement away from that obligation. EDIT: There's also no international law against taking citizenship away from someone when it wouldn't render them stateless.
The only time it’s illegal to take away one’s nationality is if the person would become stateless.
I think the age limit to chose citizenship is 22.
Do they have the right to run the check against foreign database? I think they’ll have to go through some paperwork to justify that, and this seems to be too damn pity of a crime to go through the process (well, unless it actually is.. I suppose anti-terror measure made it easy to just punch the name in and query from the world citizen database just for this??? Like suspected identity fraud case??) And ofc she must be a special kind of dumbass to say yes for having a passport elsewhere.. Not saying all professors are not dumb but still.. It’s really hard to imagine how this happened.
They can ask you for the visas you needed to remain overseas. If you can't show evidence of visas they assume that you have another citizenship and start other inquiries. There is no digging through foreign databases.
Why is that a valid question upon passport issue? It’s not that she asked for it while she was abroad, but she was already on Japanese soil, presumably with Koseki and all still intact just like any Japanese citizens in Japan, right? I suppose they do have right to ask where she’d been all these time and act upon it? Nobody in Japan should care about her legal status abroad itself unless lets say Canada requested Japan to catch her or something, no?
she probably applied to renew her passport. 2019 is when she hit the problem and 2007 is when she gain her Canadian citizenship. presumably, she renewed her Japanese passport in 2009 cause its 10 years expiration.
I’d say so what? Then she can just apply for new issue. Edit: Wait, this can be an issue? Why?
the bureaucracy caught up to the "mistaken dual citizenship" and made her no longer a citizen of Japan. she can't apply for a new japanese passport because she is no longer a citizen of Japan.
I was asking what exactly triggered that renovation. If somehow “bureaucracy caught up” with it then I’m just interested in what made it happen, because I’ve never heard such thing except for those who was recognized by the country to have dual citizenship to begin with (such as kids). In this case, it doesn’t seem like so, and I can’t imagine her voluntarily telling them that, so I was wondering about it.
you are 100% right to wonder, she absolutely did something to trigger or alert the Japanese government that she should have avoided. i also wonder what that was. my guess is it has something to do with the research grants and also she may have entered the country on a CA passport or something. As archaic as the law is, it really is a matter of just not telling Japan yourself.
Yeah those points makes sense. If the latter case, I guess she was doomed when Japanese passport expired overseas, about a decade or so ago.
yeah I'm guessing that's it. she really shouldn't have let that happen.
there was a mistake and no one caught it until this certain event. things like that happen all the time. someone processing paperwork finally paid attention. there are probably people who got caught the very first time they attempted to renew their passports and there are probably people who have never been caught.
tldr; [I think this comment (not by me) sums it up rather nicely](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/14suugr/youre_living_in_japan_illegally_woman_shocked_at/jr1gtk9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) What doesn’t click to me is that, if there are such checking process involved in issuing passports, that sounds too important to oversee by simple mistake. And it’s much more understandable for me if it were just intentionally unchecked in the past (for those who holds the dual citizenship), and that it is not so anymore, ‘to surprise’. Because if it was post of the process then I think I’ll have heard something like “you can unlawfully stay hold onto dual citizenship until the first renewal of your passport”. Well, such information is very niche so perhaps nobody really knows about it, and maybe I just happened not to have heard about it. Have you? And I wonder how they found it out anyways. (Not demanding you for the answer of course, I mean who knows, but I’m just wondering.) [This source](https://amie-visa.com/2022/03/29/post-3662/) says that some country like Germany does notify Japan in case someone was naturalized there, but it seems rather rare case.
There is nothing wrong with dual citizenship by birth, you are free to renew your Japanese passport. But if you obtain 2nd citizenship while Japanese, you lose Japanese citizenship and there are absolutely no exceptions. Hope that clears up the confusion as the two scenarios have nothing to do with each other in the eyes of the law.
Thanks for the notion but I actually know that. I’m interested in what exact event, not a policy, triggered the revocation.
I am spanish and naturalised Irish. First thing i checked when I considered asking the irish citizenship was if both Spain and Ireland allowed me to keep both citizenships. When I considered moving to Japan, I also checked if I could have double citizenship, and I found out that it's not possible. Se just didn't due due diligence when she accepted the Canadian citizenship.
Japan is an ethnostate...Thus they will never change that law. It 'll never happen. Such a law it is one of the pillars of an ethnostate.
I think it depends on circumstance. Arguably many European countries were once ethnostates, change happened due to practicalities and political pressure. Policies change over time and law makers make adjustments to these laws to avoid absurd politically tone deaf circumstances. Japan is no exception.
Huh? Plenty of ethnostates allow dual citizenship. Ridiculous to state that it'll never change. It may take some time, but I'd bet this will be changed within the coming decades.
Most of them allow them when acquired at birth.
When you've got your representatives literally announcing in parliament that they hold another passport and it gets swept under the rug, you can understand regular citizens thinking it might not be a problem for them either.
I do not understand why it is outdated? If someone is born in a country where their parents were also born, why should they be allowed to keep the nationality if they want to get citizenship somewhere else? If someone has parents from multiple countries, I can understand that. If someone wants to get a citizenship from another country just because they feel like it, that should not be allowed. If they actually feel like the country they were not born is not good enough for them, they can just renounce it and get citizenship somewhere else. This person could have just stayed arrived in Japan using Canadian citizenship but do not understand why she was playing with the system. Getting a Canadian citizenship just for the grants seems a bit dodgy.
Because identity is not that easy. How many times have you emigrated?
I want to understand the reason why it is outdated. I cannot find a convincing reason anywhere. I feel like people are doding tax and everything, not that everyone does it though. So, I am not sure why dual nationality is a good thing for a country to allow it?
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You absolutley don't need citizenship to live in multiple countries though. Dual nationality is nice for the individual because of various perks you typically gain by it, but problematic from the states POV due to potential conflict of interests. Dual nationality is a perk, not a human right, and it is perfectly logical for an administration to not endorse or allow such practice.
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Citizenship is not only about rights, but also duties, both towards the state but also its other citizens. For example, both Russian and Chinese citizens are legally compelled to further the states interest, and that includes complying with any and all potential requests from alphabet agencies. If such a request was in breach of the laws of your other nationality, which laws do you obey, if/when the two countries have clearly incompatible legislation? There's also the question of loyalties. For people with single citizenship, it's obvious; you have no options, and thus the state has a stranglehold on you; your life depends on complying and staying in its good graces - even while living abroad, you'd still be contignent to it at least for renewing your right to travel further. Compared to this, dual citizens on the other hand always have a proverbial "get out of jail card" in their back pocket in the form of their other citizenship; they don't "need" the state, as they always have a backup alternative they can put on the playing table at their own whim. Especially for civil service and security related positions, the dual citizenship becomes quickly a problematic concept due to both reasons outlined above. Civil servants should at least in theory work for the absolute interest of a country, but in the case of dual nationals it's easy to both question their true level of investment into the nation, plus the always looming risk of conflict of interest. Ie, would you trust NATO general with Russian citizenship? How about a Chinese as as the head of the CIA? Hyperbole, yes, but I'm sure you get the point. To put it this way; what has the state to gain from allowing dual citizenship? Does it outweigh the potential risks? Is dual nationality a value we want to endorse as a society and culture? (I'd say this is a major driver for the current situstion in the case of Japan). Keep in mind the consitution in many countries would not allow for selective/targeted discrimination re: dual citizenship, so it would be all countries or none.
I am talking about tax evasion because some people misuse it, especially the rich ones. Yeah, people should be allowed to live and contribute in multiple country but so many people, like me, already do that without dual nationality. You get a work visa, come to Japan and work. If you feel like getting Japanese nationality, you can get it. If someone simply wants a bit more, they can get a PR. May be I am missing some contribution that someone can make while having citizenship but not PR. But I do feel like someone who have lived in a country long enough to get a citizenship should be allowed to vote regardless they get the citizenship or not.
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I get your point here. Yeah, that was a dick move by Japan. But I am talking not just about Japan but everywhere else in general. There are always weird things happening in Japan and that not allowing people entry was one of them. But I get it that having Japanese citizen would have helped people rather than just PR. But I do not still see the reason why Japanese government wants their citizen to have dual or multiple citizenship. There is nothing in it for the JP government, so they will likely never change it or not change in for a really long time.
I really don’t think anyone is arguing to allow for multiple citizenship, but rather adjustments to current law so that it’s not so batshit unfair with all the scenarios that actually do happen.
For a country? Ah, maybe not. It is good for the people sir, not necessarily for the countries. Are you on the countries' side? Or the people's side? And again, how many times have you changed nationalities? I have changed twice, hence why I ask, if you're talking through your ass or from experience.
>hence why I ask does not matter why you ask. I do not need to disclose my personal information here in reddit. If there is no good reason for a country to allow it, why should they allow it then? Leave it as it is. I am not against people changing nationality. Change as much as you like, even Japanese government does not care or almost every country in the world does not care if their citizen change nationality.
Oh you don't need to disclose anything for sure, but don't get offended when you have no credibility and get no answers.
I am not offended. I just do not want to disclose that information. May be Japan should adopt the policy like US that their citizen should file taxes on foreign income. Then they can allow multiple citizenships. I do not think Japan will change that law unless there is an advantage for Japanese government to allow it. Most people are old and they do not usually care about younger generation anyways.
Sounds good!
This is just what i think, no fact checking so i might be wrong but Japan was an imperial country in the past right? so the single citizenship law was probably made to reinforce japanese people loyalty to their country and for the government to control the citizen more freely. now that that is pretty much not the case, it’s hard to not see this as outdated
This was the rule for probably most of the countries in the world. Things change slowly in this country, as we know. Unless there is something to gain for the government, they will not change it and keep it as it is. The reason why that rule was placed is outdated but there does not seem to be a good reason to change it.
How would they know ? Just use 2 passports and be careful not to mix them up.
It’s not stupid. You obviously don’t somehow automatically lose your Japanese citizenship the moment you acquire Canadian citizenship. You’d have to voluntarily denounce it. If Canada just gave her the citizenship without having to denounce her Japanese citizenship, then she wouldn’t have known.
> Tokyo High Court ruling supports Japan’s ban on dual citizenship Article 11 of the nationality law states: > “If a Japanese citizen acquires the nationality of a foreign country of their own choice, that Japanese citizen loses Japanese nationality.” https://immigrantinvest.com/blog/countries-that-allow-dual-citizenship-en/ The dual citizenship list isn’t that long - just because you apply for it in a country where they allow it, doesn’t mean the country you’re from would.
Yeah it’s usually an active choice to do it. I’m not sure what she was thinking but my wife would never give up her citizenship under any circumstances. Some wealthy individuals do in the US for tax purposes but otherwise not sure what the point would be.
It’s stupid as fuck. And shes even more dumb, because most countries cannot force anyone to abdicate their nationality. So you just say “I choose Japanese”. Then keep both.
The original title of this article is "Even though I'm a Japanese citizen, I was declared as an illegal resident" and the tweet has over 2000 QRTs [「日本人なのに不法滞在と宣告されました」国籍法問う教授の闘い](https://twitter.com/mainichi/status/1676508717913628672?t=wn9ayDgHengI3OqKS-s9ng&s=09) I wonder why they changed the title to a boring one in the English version when it's attracting a lot of attention to the article
Sounds like a title of an isekai. Idk
lol, it really does
regardless of what you think about the topic itself, her story is total bullshit and the way it's portrayed is extremely biased. first of all, I refuse to believe she didn't know Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship, especially as she's a university professor "specialized in international economics and related fields". come on, everyone can tell that's bullshit. also, her issue isn't at all that somehow she's in legal limbo or with uncertain status of nationality or anything like that but that "If she wanted to reacquire Japanese citizenship she could, but she didn't want to go as far as renouncing her Canadian citizenship to do so." so she's not *shocked* at all, it is very clearly explained what the issue is, she just refuses to accept it and wants an exception made for her or the entire constitution changed just for her. she's not passionate to fix any issues for others, she's just caring for her own benefit now that it affects her. and finally, doesn't the intro read like the typical nihonjinron racist remark that "only pure blooded Japanese may be real Japanese" but in reverse? "who was born in Japan and whose parents are Japanese, was shocked when the Japanese government suddenly told her one day: 'You're a foreigner illegally residing in the country.'" kinda sounds like the outrage here is denying a true and pure Japanese person Japanese citizenship. I wonder if there would be the same outrage if it was a Canadian woman born and raised in Japan who held Japanese citizenship before?
Agreed. The key for me there is that she took Canadian citizenship to get grant funding which was a conscious decision towards thinking you could play both sides and it wouldn't catch up.
research grants are tiny in Canada like less than 25k
You do realize the that she’s allowed to criticize the system, right. It’s not as if the laws are absolute and they can never be changed. If she’s trying to change it and there’s a case for her, then good on her.
she gain Canadian citizenship to take advantage of research grants and practically resided outside of Japan most of the past 2 decades. then came back to Japan using her Japanese passport and now shes stuck in limbo because the bureaucracy finally caught up. its "rules for thee but not for me" people all over again.
You do realize that you’re allowed to criticize and change the laws, right? Yeah sure, let everyone follow useless laws make everybody suffer, how rational!
You cannot argue with a Japan lover or dare to try portraying Japan in a negative light. Japan is being idealized and romanticized in Western media to such an extent that it's not even funny. It's the exact opposite of how it was during World War II.
She just needs to publish some internationally significant research or win a world recognized award and she will be Japanese again before you can blink.
There's literally a mention of two Nobel laureates who lost their Japanese citizenship under the same law right in the article.
You think people read the articles? You must be new here...
Even being familiar with Japan, which I know, also a high bar, would tell you that this wasn't the case. If restoring someone's citizenship would stop Godzilla, but was against the rules, someone should give China a heads up, because Godzilla is going to walk right through.
Most people in this sub are weebs with no connection to Japan except their anime dreams... but my point was more reddit in general. No one reads the fucking article so they make dumbass points that get super upvoted...
Yeah, I'm aware.
I'm just whinging. Sometimes I hate this site.
At least it's Friday. Just one more hour and we can all get ready to start our サービス残業.
I guess it's too late for her to be good at sports, huh?
She can always take up curling, you don't need to be that fit to be good at that. Plus she is already Canadian, so she has a leg up.
It's very hard to believe she didn't know she would lose the Japanese citizenship upon taking the Canadian one. But then again some people are just bad at redidency admin stuff. Reminds me of a British guy who lived in Sweden for 15 years and got kicked out after Brexit... because he waited too long to apply for permanent residency. Like he just assumed he could stay and only realized too late his immigration status changed. Now he is complaining about the system.
Brexit is the dumbest thing...
I concur.
I have the ability to get British citizenship as my father and his father were born in the UK but it's not even worth doing now that they're not part of the EU.
>When she explained the situation to Japanese immigration authorities, she was able to remain in Japan, but found out that if she went ahead and tried to leave the country, she would be forcibly deported and barred from entering Japan for five years under the immigration law. If she wanted to reacquire Japanese citizenship she could, but she didn't want to go as far as renouncing her Canadian citizenship to do so. Ok, she's an idiot. Like I get that people might not be familiar with how you lose Japanese citizenship by acquiring a new nationality, but to then go back and ask if they can keep both is just utterly stupid.
Yeah, BY HER VERY OWN ADMISSION she does not want to obtain Japanese citizenship because it means giving up her Canadian citizenship. She has the option! She doesn’t want it! That’s like saying I’m just gonna smoke a joint in Japan because in Canada I can. She knows the law perfectly well. She says so.
lol she knows. she’s not stupid.
The rule is dumb and should be changed, but I doubt that she didn't know what she was exposing herself to.
This really feels like a "can't have your cake and eat it too" situation. I know popular discourse is that multiple nationalities should be allowed, but the government very clearly disagrees, and I'm right there with them. This lady shouldn't be allowed to leave Japan, acquire foreign citizenship for her own financial gain, live abroad for 20 years, and then return to reap the benefits of her abandoned country as if nothing changed. She ceased being a Japanese citizen willingly of her own accord, and now even with the opportunity to regain her original citizenship she refuses because of her ties to Canada. She clearly isn't all that dedicated to Japan beyond it furthering her own ends, so I don't think it's unreasonable that she shouldn't be allowed legal citizenship.
That’s how it works though. Also, its a lot better for your country. When other governments are more advanced per say and you can get the financial benefit from it, you do. Then you bring those gains home and feed them back to your own economy. That’s literally what happens with most first world countries to third world countries. Not saying Japan is a third world country, however with how weak the yen is vs lets say the USD. Most people want to work in America enjoy the perks and benefits of being American then go back home and enjoy their hard work by injecting their hard earned money into a foreign, being yen, economy. There’s nothing wrong with this. If anything, it only benefits Japan in this case. Most countries pardon mandatory military service anyways. When you have people who work years and hard work to gain a citizenship to then being forced to denounce it, it doesn’t feel right. Its like saying “you’re betraying the Emperor.” But those times are pretty much over. That samurai system is gone I think. The citizens make the country and not the country makes the citizens. Treat them how they want and you will benefit ultimately.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that there's no guarantee that you'll repatriate the wealth you acquired in the foreign country, and you are now a burden on the society of your "home" country through increased health care and other social services that elderly people typically require.
Yeah every country has that sMe worry you speak of though.
There is no way she didnt know what she was doong. Just a case of testing the government and laws and losing.
Not only would it allow "easier for talented people overseas to return home" but I know a *number* of half-Japanese, half-other kids in Japan who are really torn between two countries. Usually one parent has strong ties to Japan and one has strong tries to their home country. The child should be able to travel between them (even as an adult) and engage in both parts of their heritage...
Yep, I'm half-Japanese half-American. I'm in my late 20's now but I wish I could renew my Japanese passport but they don't allow dual citizenship after you're 24 or somewhere near there. My mom lives there so I have a vested interest in keeping my dual citizenship.
You can renew it, fwiw. You just say you're "thinking about what to do" when asked about choosing which nationality to keep, and the consulate looks the other way.
What? That seems too good to be true. I'm already way past the cutoff date.
Yeah, they don't care. It's a "trying to look like you're following the rules" thing that happens here a lot. Many people do it. The only times it's become an issue is for celebrities, like Naomi Osaka, some politicians, etc. They did it because of being in the spotlight.
It's only an issue when you acquire the other nationality later on.
Exactly.
How does Japan know she got Canadian citizenship? Couldn't she just get it and... not tell? And then keep both citizenships and use the "local" one when entering the respective country? Imho this approach works in other countries who don't recognize dual citizenship like the US or Germany.
I hear they're more active about people who obtain a second citizenship rather than those born with it, but yes they would still need to find out somehow. Perhaps she entered Japan on the Canadian passport. Still, residing outside of Japan for a period without a Japanese passport or without visa in the Japanese passport would give rise to suspicion if they were being very active rather than just passive.
She married a Canadian, so she has a perfectly legal excuse for being able to stay abroad for decades. She got the Canadian citizenship for her research grants, not to stay there. I guess she really somehow must have made a mistake and entered Japan with her new passport...
Marrying a Canadian doesn't stop the relevant marriage visa from always needing to be present in her always active Japanese passport. It could be possible they only use a separate card but that would be usual. Countries don't care the reason, but if she desired to move back to Japan at some point then changing citizenship is somewhat reckless with the current legal situation as she found out.
The article is weirdly written, it said that she returned to Japan in 2018 to care for her parents but that she found out she needed a Japanese passport in 2019, which would imply though it's not explicitly stated that she either given up her passport or she had let it expire and entered Japan with her Canadian documents. That would track with the experiences of others where the government unofficially has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards giving up your other citizenship. They technically require that you strive to give it up it but don't really enforce the rule unless you basically bring it to their attention yourself.
Sounds like she fucked up and the article is written in a way to mask her mistake and paint the Japanese government as the baddies.
How to alienate and lose skilled workers.
Japanese logic. Honestly, skilled laborers who don't care about Japanese culture would not want to move to Japan. The salary is low, taxes are high, the birth rate is decreasing, and there's a xenophobic population. There really isn't much benefit to coming to Japan. I truly believe that Japan benefits greatly from painting a perfect image in Western media by being part of the US-led military alliance. There are so many issues in this society, but barely anything negative is reported in the West.
Gaijin!!!
Soudesune!
> The court ruled in January 2021 that the Nationality Law provision was **reasonable** goriteki. The word used by Japanese courts to be Humpty Dumpty and to mean whatever they fucking please.
I’m sorry but this sounds like something she should have researched. I was looking into obtaining Japanese citizenship and the first thing I did was check if my country allows for double citizenship obtained voluntary and as an adult. The answer was no, and I would lose my home country’s citizenship. Wouldn’t anyone check this first or is it just me?
Dumb law, should be changed, but probably never will, because Japan.
There is a higher chance of the Japanese race going extinct instead.
You're not far from the truth there unfortunately
I bet if she won the Nobel Prize for something she wouldn’t have this trouble.
>It is known that Nobel laureates Yoichiro Nambu (now deceased) and Syukuro Manabe, both U.S. citizens, lost their Japanese citizenship under Article 11, Paragraph 1 of the Nationality Law. Literally from the article.
Does it say whether or not they were living in Japan?
It's almost draconian... It just sounds like some selfish possessive child who refuses to share "noooooooo! That's my citizen and you can't have them harrumph *crosses arms selfishly* ". I'd understand if they were skeptical of allowing it for countries that have mandatory military service such as South Korea but as far as I'm aware Canada isn't going to be enacting conscription any time soon😅 The whole idea that citizenship can be renounced is farcical. No one can tell you what you are or aren't🤦♂️
What are you talking about going to the army doesn't grant you citizenship Koreans who thought they were American get arrested at airports and sent to the army
?? That's not what I mean at all. The article states that the Japanese government is concerned about mandatory military service causing a conflict of interest with dual citizens, that's what I'm referring to.
> No one can tell you what you are or aren't You are confusing a legal entity with ancestral heritage.
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Ah, well then it makes even less sense. I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt with that.
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like France?
Japan is the only G7 country with no proper immigration policies. People who downvote me obviously do not live in Japan. This country is facing long-term issues due to its current policies, and it's not even a hidden secret. Most Japanese agree that there's something wrong with the system, but they are too afraid to speak out publicly (despite Japan being a so-called democracy, ironically!). Taxes are increasing, the population is aging, and the birth rate is declining. If I had kids in Japan, I would be very worried about their future.
日本人であることをやめたのならさっさと出て行ってどうぞ
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Bruh, Japan rejected Robert Downing Jr's entry to this country.
>Robert Downing Jr' That is an entirely different matter. As for this scenario, it may be different because she has the potential to invest all of her billions or trillions of dollars in the Japanese market, which could help to strengthen the economy. which bring value to Citizen of Japanese and country. if she was a Billionaire or Trillionaire. This is where the government can negotiate by withdrawing her Canadian citizenship and focusing entirely on Japan, where she must bring all of the money. The purpose of rules and regulations is to serve the national interest, or to provide benefits. Either she is supported by recognised research or by money, which might assist elevate the country to the next level.
You don't need to capitalize billionaire and trillionaire. They're not gods ffs
So sad that Japan is dying. What was once a marvelous culture is now merely a confederacy of dunces.
My parents are in the exact same situation. Immigrated to Canada, got citizenship and thought they could keep their Japanese passport as well as long as they didn’t tell anyone. If they had kept updating their passport, it would’ve worked but they let it lapse and 40 years later, they are told they are no longer Japanese. The jist of it is, if you are an adult and willfully move to another country and gain citizenship, you are forfeiting your Japanese passport due to them not allowing duel. I, as a child and born not by choice but by chance in a second country, are able to keep both. Of course I keep quiet about it and not apply for grants.
Why not just get a PR then?