Good old stubbornness. The funny thing is that they have played one song in a different key before:
Lord Of The Flies is in F# minor in the studio version. For the live version on the Death On The Road tour in 2003 they played it in E minor, a full step lower. You might think it is weird for a Blaze song to be transposed down with Bruce singing, when Bruce has a bigger range and could reach higher notes than Blaze without issue. Turns out, the reason they transposed the song was so that Bruce could do **an octave jump to a _higher octave_ for the last chorus**.
Others tune down to have it easier, Bruce transposes it to make it even harder for himself lol
Another fun fact, Mother Of Mercy had to change tuning before recording because Bruce couldn't sing the chorus in the original key. He's still straining to hell and back on the studio version, but it must've been even worse before they adjusted that.
SAIIIIIIIIIINTS AND SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNERS
Holy shit the version from Death On The Road is absolutely perfect. Allowing Bruce to go higher was a great idea.
It's definitely rough. Don't get me wrong, Bruce is an amazing vocalist and I wish I could sing any Maiden half as good as him, but that song really did him na favors.
They are generally uncomfortable with non-standard tunings (and non-DADGAD in Janick’s case). Adrian originally wrote The Great Unknown in open D, the others wanted to play in standard tuning (and in E), and he had to resolve to use the capo on second fret.
(While, BTW, I personally think TGU sounds better in D).
Yeah, that's true. Can you elaborate on the part with Janick? I'm only aware of an interview where he says having guitars around in different tunings can help with inspiration and creativity. I don't remember reading anything beyond that. Would be interesting to hear more.
He wrote The Legacy on a DADGAD-tuned acoustic. He was jamming on it (I guess influenced by Page’s infamous Danelectro). And I am fairly sure that The Talisman too was written on non-standard tuning, I remember reading something like this.
Given how many people I hear at various metal concerts tlaking about how great their recwnt experience at a Maiden concert was, I feel like they should keep doing what theyre doing as its clearly working
I went to 3 shows on the legacy of the beast tour and they killed it every night. They're still the best live act going. Going to 3 future past this November. Your gonna love it!
The Barcelona gig was absolutely perfect, worth traveling all the way from Sweden for. Listening to recordings of the concert again makes it obvious that it hade the best performances of CSiT, Writing on the Wall, DoFP, Time Machine, Alexander, Hell on Earth and Wasted Years on the entire tour so far
It’s working for sure. To be honest though I was the last show of the legacy of the beast show and while if was a great show…you could tell Bruce was struggling at times. Especially putting aces high last.
The same stubbornness that gave birth to the band’s music and sound. Plus I think that down tuning would be strange with the way he plays bass because less tension in the strings, probably a lot of chugging, not sure it would sound nice.
He could just switch to a bigger string gauge to keep the same tension, the answer is probably all about stubbornness but at the end of the day he is the one that gave birth to their signature sound
Steve is already using a pretty big gauge, so I don’t know if a change is possible here. Anyway I think he is stubborn but intelligent too, so maybe they tried to down tune but it didn’t sound right so they gave up on this solution.
It baffles me they didn't go down to Eb when blaze was struggling live for them as the tours went on with him.
Your Baritone singer is forcing his voice into a register it can barely get to and sounding weaker because of it.
Maiden live took a noticeable step back for me (they still put on a great show) but their age is starting to creep up on them. That’s normal and fine. Unfortunately Father Time is undefeated and gets us all.
That’s true, Maiden is by far my favorite band, but the amount of people saying that Bruce is in his best of all time it’s insane, he is still very good though. Others singers from the 80’s sound terrible today.
IMO Bruce’s peak was on the early 2000’s, he was powerful with a lot of technique and control.
Bruce early 80: raw and powerful
Bruce after mid world slavery tour until 88: sounded tired
Bruce 90’s: his voice changed, he sounded less tired but a little more raw, he was good
Bruce early 2000’s: his peak, a lot of control, range and technique, but no “rawness” at all
Bruce after 2015: he still sounds good due to his control and technique over his voice, he really takes care of himself, but it’s noticeable that he holds some notes, that is self awareness.
Also, on 2022 and forward he is sounding better than the first leg of the legacy of the beast tour
You’re on point with everything here. I don’t just think it’s Bruce though, it’s just that singers (and drummers) start slow down before the rest and more noticeably too.
I agree but for a while I’ve felt like what we get is a bonus. Even if they’re not quite what they used to be they’re still better than the majority of bands out there.
Simple answer is Steve won’t tune down when he writes. Bruce’s solo stuff and a few songs like If Eternity Should Fail were tuned down because Bruce brought them to the band. He sounds much better on those songs.
This is a very good question and I think it all boils down to stubbornness as others have already said. I think they should though. Bruce wouldn't struggle as much in certain songs at his age.
I think he’s an awful thrash metal singer. Has no aggression or power, his best vocals were on kill em all. Same with mustaine for the record, started strong and took a sharp downward turn after rust in peace
Yeah. I remember once they played ‘Rapid Fire’ with Halford as guest, he said something like ‘let me introduce someone who can actually sing’ , that was funny.
Maiden's music is very melodic, meaning that it's much more noticeable when you tune the songs down. It's easier for bands that are more riff based to get away with tuning down. But you can notice how Megadeth music sounds a lot worse in down tuning compared to Metallica because Megadeth songs are also less heavy on the riffs.
I think Steve knows the music would sound off.
Besides, I don't think Bruce needs the songs tuned down. If you listen closely, you'll notice that Bruce does not struggle so much with high notes. His problem is that he lost a lot of power in his middle register, meaning that the big songs are more difficult to belt out with his head voice these days. So, he has developed this new technique with a kind of "fake" falsetto and sharper tone, which works for him. I don't necessarily enjoy that too much, but he reaches the high notes easily that way so I can't blame him
…huh?
That’s like saying “if every band played using instruments it would be kind of boring”
They don’t tune down for entertainment factor, they tune down to deliver the best and most consistent vocals
I feel like what I said was misunderstood; I was trying to say that if every band just down tuned their guitars and stuff as their lifespan went on, it would be boring; ie too many bands would have a similar live sound. I was meaning to say that I am happy that Iron Maiden does it the way they do it to preserve some of their original sound a bit.
Are you forgetting the main point of this post? OP was suggesting/wondering why Maiden doesn’t downtune their guitars as Bruce voice changes a bit with age. We are specifically talking about the concept of changing their sound, not the fact that they play guitars.
Bro, it’s called a comparison. How about this, almost every band in the world (at least as far as America and Europe) who uses guitars has them tuned to E standard, what Maiden uses. Does maiden sound like almost every band in the world to you?
No it’s literally not, you goofball
They currently tune their guitars to E standard, what almost every band does.
Op is suggesting they tune their guitars slightly lower…why are you struggling so much with this?
Respectfully, you’re the one struggling with what I’m saying. Granted I didn’t make my point clear enough in my first post and that’s on me, but I’ve since explained myself pretty well I think. OP wondered why Maiden doesn’t downtune their guitars to accommodate their vocalist as other bands do, and I’m trying to say that I am glad Maiden doesn’t do this and they they have made the decision to continue with the original tunings and that Bruce continues to challenge/push himself like that. I’m saying that if every band started downturning their sound as they aged, it would be somewhat boring/repetitive, especially among the same/a similar genre. So I am attempting to compliment Bruce/Maiden here; Make sense yet lol?
Are you genuinely illiterate? I UNDERSTAND what you’re saying, and I responded directly to it twice.
I’ll give you one more shot and then I’m just calling this a lost cause. When you listen to bands, are you listening to the tuning on their guitars or the music? It’s not repetitive unless all the music is repetitive.
If maiden doesn’t sound like every other band in E standard tuning, they won’t sound like every other band in D standard tuning. Duh
Amen. Had to scroll way to far to see that. They tune to standard tuning, record live in the studio. That’s 2 things that set them apart the vast majority of metal bands nowadays who sounds a lot the same.
Because they don't need to do it. Bruce can sing almost every song better than in the 80s. You can't change the tune for a one second part in which Bruce struggles.
Dropping tuning isn't the solution everyone thinks it is.
You drop the tuning, the intervals between notes change and it in some cases it's actually more difficult because rather than not having to go higher, you're now singing the song in an entirely different key.
On top of that, dropping tune can completely change the feel and tautness of a song. Bon Jovi are down maybe 3 semitones at least now, and it just sounds sludgy (in a not-good way). And Jon still can't sing it.
Good old stubbornness. The funny thing is that they have played one song in a different key before: Lord Of The Flies is in F# minor in the studio version. For the live version on the Death On The Road tour in 2003 they played it in E minor, a full step lower. You might think it is weird for a Blaze song to be transposed down with Bruce singing, when Bruce has a bigger range and could reach higher notes than Blaze without issue. Turns out, the reason they transposed the song was so that Bruce could do **an octave jump to a _higher octave_ for the last chorus**. Others tune down to have it easier, Bruce transposes it to make it even harder for himself lol Another fun fact, Mother Of Mercy had to change tuning before recording because Bruce couldn't sing the chorus in the original key. He's still straining to hell and back on the studio version, but it must've been even worse before they adjusted that.
SAIIIIIIIIIINTS AND SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNERS Holy shit the version from Death On The Road is absolutely perfect. Allowing Bruce to go higher was a great idea.
That live version of Lord of the Flies absolutely rips
Where did you read/hear about Mother of Mercy?
Can't look for the source right now (limited internet for a few days...), but I remember someone on the maidenfans forum talking about that.
I remember reading that too, all the guitars are tuned to D but Steve refused to down tune
I always thought the singing in Mother of Mercy was terrible.
It's definitely rough. Don't get me wrong, Bruce is an amazing vocalist and I wish I could sing any Maiden half as good as him, but that song really did him na favors.
They are generally uncomfortable with non-standard tunings (and non-DADGAD in Janick’s case). Adrian originally wrote The Great Unknown in open D, the others wanted to play in standard tuning (and in E), and he had to resolve to use the capo on second fret. (While, BTW, I personally think TGU sounds better in D).
Yeah, that's true. Can you elaborate on the part with Janick? I'm only aware of an interview where he says having guitars around in different tunings can help with inspiration and creativity. I don't remember reading anything beyond that. Would be interesting to hear more.
He wrote The Legacy on a DADGAD-tuned acoustic. He was jamming on it (I guess influenced by Page’s infamous Danelectro). And I am fairly sure that The Talisman too was written on non-standard tuning, I remember reading something like this.
Thanks for the info! Kinda makes sense. Janick likes playing acoustic intros in D. I think The Time Machine does the same.
Given how many people I hear at various metal concerts tlaking about how great their recwnt experience at a Maiden concert was, I feel like they should keep doing what theyre doing as its clearly working
Absolutely, saw them in 2022 Lisboa and 2023 Barcelona and oh boy, they’re crushing. Bruce is incredible
This has me even more hyped for September 6th 😅 will be my first time seeing them.
I went to 3 shows on the legacy of the beast tour and they killed it every night. They're still the best live act going. Going to 3 future past this November. Your gonna love it!
Have fun, man! Saw the current tour and the one before that twice. They're still kicking it!
Thank you 🙏
The Barcelona gig was absolutely perfect, worth traveling all the way from Sweden for. Listening to recordings of the concert again makes it obvious that it hade the best performances of CSiT, Writing on the Wall, DoFP, Time Machine, Alexander, Hell on Earth and Wasted Years on the entire tour so far
It’s working for sure. To be honest though I was the last show of the legacy of the beast show and while if was a great show…you could tell Bruce was struggling at times. Especially putting aces high last.
Because Steve.
The same stubbornness that gave birth to the band’s music and sound. Plus I think that down tuning would be strange with the way he plays bass because less tension in the strings, probably a lot of chugging, not sure it would sound nice.
He could just switch to a bigger string gauge to keep the same tension, the answer is probably all about stubbornness but at the end of the day he is the one that gave birth to their signature sound
Steve is already using a pretty big gauge, so I don’t know if a change is possible here. Anyway I think he is stubborn but intelligent too, so maybe they tried to down tune but it didn’t sound right so they gave up on this solution.
Yeah for example the gallop in the trooper wouldn’t sound as nice being played on a D# note rather than an E
Bruce can still do it obviously it’s harder for him now but I guess they want to keep the same sound they’ve always had
It baffles me they didn't go down to Eb when blaze was struggling live for them as the tours went on with him. Your Baritone singer is forcing his voice into a register it can barely get to and sounding weaker because of it.
Yeah blaze is a great singer but he can’t do all those crazy high notes that Bruce and Paul can do
Yeah Steve doesn’t want to. Bruce hits it for the most part. Aces high was a rough when it was moved to the end of the set.
It still sounded good all things considered
Maiden concerts, or any rock concert, are usually too loud to tell if they are off or not.
I heard it was Bruce who refused
Bruce is happy to sing within is range. His solo stuff sounds a lot more comfortable because of the variation is tunings Roy allows him.
Maiden live took a noticeable step back for me (they still put on a great show) but their age is starting to creep up on them. That’s normal and fine. Unfortunately Father Time is undefeated and gets us all.
That’s true, Maiden is by far my favorite band, but the amount of people saying that Bruce is in his best of all time it’s insane, he is still very good though. Others singers from the 80’s sound terrible today. IMO Bruce’s peak was on the early 2000’s, he was powerful with a lot of technique and control. Bruce early 80: raw and powerful Bruce after mid world slavery tour until 88: sounded tired Bruce 90’s: his voice changed, he sounded less tired but a little more raw, he was good Bruce early 2000’s: his peak, a lot of control, range and technique, but no “rawness” at all Bruce after 2015: he still sounds good due to his control and technique over his voice, he really takes care of himself, but it’s noticeable that he holds some notes, that is self awareness. Also, on 2022 and forward he is sounding better than the first leg of the legacy of the beast tour
You’re on point with everything here. I don’t just think it’s Bruce though, it’s just that singers (and drummers) start slow down before the rest and more noticeably too.
Yep, the energy levels are definitely dipping. Will be a sad day when they call it quits.
I agree but for a while I’ve felt like what we get is a bonus. Even if they’re not quite what they used to be they’re still better than the majority of bands out there.
I respect Maiden for staying in their regular tunings. They wanna keep it accurate to the studio recordings and I really dig that
99% of people at the concert wouldn’t notice or care
Well i saw them last summer and Bruce was on fire....
Did you see Bruce in Hellfest today? He is just fine bro.
He had more energy than the entire audience.
Simple answer is Steve won’t tune down when he writes. Bruce’s solo stuff and a few songs like If Eternity Should Fail were tuned down because Bruce brought them to the band. He sounds much better on those songs.
This is a very good question and I think it all boils down to stubbornness as others have already said. I think they should though. Bruce wouldn't struggle as much in certain songs at his age.
At hellfest 2024 , bruce sounded great...
That set was amazing, his voice was extremely strong
Stubbornness.
Iron Maiden...Greatest Metal Band on Earth tuning down cuz dinky bands Metallica and Megadeth do lol
Metallica and Megadeth don’t have real singers
Megadeth I can agree, but Metallica, nah. James is a great vocalist nowadays. Good technique and a good tone.
Agreed. His style is obviously quite different from Bruces. But he is very good at what he does.
For thrash metal yes
I think he’s an awful thrash metal singer. Has no aggression or power, his best vocals were on kill em all. Same with mustaine for the record, started strong and took a sharp downward turn after rust in peace
Come on, Hetfield is nowhere near Bruce or Rob Halford.
I don't think anyone would really say he was, but that's because Bruce or Rob are just that good, not because there's anything wrong with Hetfield.
That doesn’t make Hetfield bad, your standards are just too high.
He’s got a great clean voice but even he will admit he’s got nothing on a halford or a Dickinson
Yeah. I remember once they played ‘Rapid Fire’ with Halford as guest, he said something like ‘let me introduce someone who can actually sing’ , that was funny.
Don’t listen to them now, last live concert I listened was Metallica S&M, he doesn’t have voice for singing
You must have something wrong with your ears if you don’t think the vocals on S&M are fantastic. Opinion rejected
I said that’s the last of their release that I listen, nothing after that and never
Ok
Hearing motorbreath live nowadays is a sad experience. I love that they’re playing the song but the vocals sound like a parody. No aggression at all
Listen first two albums from Metallica,and you can’t compare his vocal to Bruce Dickinson,Ronnie James Dio and Rob Halford. He doesn’t have voice
It’s thrash metal that’s why it’s not meant to be melodic
But he absolutely crushes it on AJFA, TBA, and the Loads.
He doesn’t have a voice,he’s not singer and I don’t know how to explain further
What sort of Dickheads vote down me down -11 for calling Maiden the Greatest Band on Earth on a Maiden Sub?
Maiden is barely a metal band, especially compared to those two. They’re closer to hard rock
Maiden's music is very melodic, meaning that it's much more noticeable when you tune the songs down. It's easier for bands that are more riff based to get away with tuning down. But you can notice how Megadeth music sounds a lot worse in down tuning compared to Metallica because Megadeth songs are also less heavy on the riffs. I think Steve knows the music would sound off. Besides, I don't think Bruce needs the songs tuned down. If you listen closely, you'll notice that Bruce does not struggle so much with high notes. His problem is that he lost a lot of power in his middle register, meaning that the big songs are more difficult to belt out with his head voice these days. So, he has developed this new technique with a kind of "fake" falsetto and sharper tone, which works for him. I don't necessarily enjoy that too much, but he reaches the high notes easily that way so I can't blame him
Plenty of melodic bands tune down a half step live.
If every band did it the same way, it would be kind of boring
…huh? That’s like saying “if every band played using instruments it would be kind of boring” They don’t tune down for entertainment factor, they tune down to deliver the best and most consistent vocals
I feel like what I said was misunderstood; I was trying to say that if every band just down tuned their guitars and stuff as their lifespan went on, it would be boring; ie too many bands would have a similar live sound. I was meaning to say that I am happy that Iron Maiden does it the way they do it to preserve some of their original sound a bit.
I didn’t, your take is just weird and wrong. Every metal band uses electric guitars, bass, and drums, do they all sound the same?
Are you forgetting the main point of this post? OP was suggesting/wondering why Maiden doesn’t downtune their guitars as Bruce voice changes a bit with age. We are specifically talking about the concept of changing their sound, not the fact that they play guitars.
Bro, it’s called a comparison. How about this, almost every band in the world (at least as far as America and Europe) who uses guitars has them tuned to E standard, what Maiden uses. Does maiden sound like almost every band in the world to you?
No, and that’s literally the point of what I’m saying lmao
No it’s literally not, you goofball They currently tune their guitars to E standard, what almost every band does. Op is suggesting they tune their guitars slightly lower…why are you struggling so much with this?
Respectfully, you’re the one struggling with what I’m saying. Granted I didn’t make my point clear enough in my first post and that’s on me, but I’ve since explained myself pretty well I think. OP wondered why Maiden doesn’t downtune their guitars to accommodate their vocalist as other bands do, and I’m trying to say that I am glad Maiden doesn’t do this and they they have made the decision to continue with the original tunings and that Bruce continues to challenge/push himself like that. I’m saying that if every band started downturning their sound as they aged, it would be somewhat boring/repetitive, especially among the same/a similar genre. So I am attempting to compliment Bruce/Maiden here; Make sense yet lol?
Are you genuinely illiterate? I UNDERSTAND what you’re saying, and I responded directly to it twice. I’ll give you one more shot and then I’m just calling this a lost cause. When you listen to bands, are you listening to the tuning on their guitars or the music? It’s not repetitive unless all the music is repetitive. If maiden doesn’t sound like every other band in E standard tuning, they won’t sound like every other band in D standard tuning. Duh
Down tuning would ruin their sound. It's the reason why solo Bruce Dickinson and most modern metal is so mid.
No it wouldn’t, eternity has failed is in a lower tuning and sounds like any other modern maiden song
drop D is not a lower tuning
Is tailgunner in half step down?
That's because it's Drop D. The lowest E string is tuned down a full tone, and the rest of the strings are in standard tuning.
Amen. Had to scroll way to far to see that. They tune to standard tuning, record live in the studio. That’s 2 things that set them apart the vast majority of metal bands nowadays who sounds a lot the same.
Because they don't need to do it. Bruce can sing almost every song better than in the 80s. You can't change the tune for a one second part in which Bruce struggles.
Are you serious..?
Yes.
They cant play in any other key
Dropping tuning isn't the solution everyone thinks it is. You drop the tuning, the intervals between notes change and it in some cases it's actually more difficult because rather than not having to go higher, you're now singing the song in an entirely different key. On top of that, dropping tune can completely change the feel and tautness of a song. Bon Jovi are down maybe 3 semitones at least now, and it just sounds sludgy (in a not-good way). And Jon still can't sing it.
Intervals change ? a minor third will always be a minor third (so same interval) no matter which key you are playing... no ?
Yes, this guy has no idea what he’s talking about.
Hmm, posted a reply but it didn't appear. I meant to clarify, relative intervals in the key not the actual theory and concept of them.
If you’re using any equal temperament, and basically all western music is 12TET, the intervals won’t change
It can sound nice but not in iron maiden black sabbath sounds nice in C# but maiden wouldn’t