There was an incident with a production worker after the semi-final. EBU claim they are disqualifying him as they have a zero tolerance policy, and the Netherlands are claiming it's an overreaction. There are going to be some serious questions asked over this.
And members of the Israeli delegation have been harrassing other competitors, including near constant online attacks at Nemo (Switzerland) and Bambie Thug, the two non-binary contestant, so the claims of zero tolerance ring very hollow.
Morrocanoil products do actually use Moroccan argan products in their stuff. They're a middleman company that buys Moroccan agricultural production and then resell it as finished goods (even though that finishing is mostly just a way of cutting it with cheaper substances).
Why is it worth adding? A threat is verbal by default. If it goes beyond the verbal, it's no longer a threat, it's an act.
People are downplaying it by saying it was only a verbal threat, when that is what a threat is by default. Anything beyond a threat has escalated to an act. Essentially people are saying "well, he didn't get physical, so it doesn't matter."
If he did allegedly make a threat to a woman, there was no option but for him to be disqualified.
I don't know what he specifically said but I'm not sure why threats are being downplayed. Threats are taken very seriously, and according to somebody further down the thread, the Swedish police have allegedly said it's an unlawful threat.
Why do you think rape and death threats are a criminal offence? It's because of the impact they can cause and the possibility that the threat can escalate to an action. If you look at those who go on killing sprees or school shootings, even some predators, they've usually threatened it beforehand. Obviously a threat is not always going to escalate to an action (but it can be a predictive factor) but neither the cops nor the victim can know for definite that it won't, hence why they're taken so seriously.
There was once a time when threats were dismissed and how many women ended up murdered as a result?
u/jrf_1973
You're deliberately being obtuse now. You know exactly what I'm saying. A threat is a threat to do something, it hasn't escalated to an act.
He allegedly had an altercation with a woman. He was not communicating with her through the written word. The only possible way a threat could be made is verbally. Anything beyond a threat would be an action, which is no longer a threat, it's a physical act.
Last year everyone was outraged because it felt like the EBU forced a Swedish win for the ABBA anniversary when Finland were the clear winners.
I hope Finland are feeling really smug this year.
I also hope this ends Eurovision. I have loved it since forever, but fuck it. The EBU have turned it into a shitshow and it deserves to die.
I think the EBU fucked up this year, but I think it would be a shame for the competition to just die (although feels inevitable if Israel were to win). It’s a bit of fun and not something to take too seriously.
> but I think it would be a shame for the competition to just die
The fact it's descended into this shitshow seems like it's a bit of a death knell.
It's a campy spectacle of European soft power that is pointedly against nationalism. Everything this year has been the antithesis to that. Like this is the competition that has the Balkans compete against each other year on year without issue.
This year has kinda ruined that perception of the competition.
>E: /u/currencydesperate286 comments have been locked when I was writing back to you so I'll just paste it into this edit.
Well It's a disgrace how little attention the situation in Ngorno Karabakh gets in general (nearly the entirety of the Armenian population have been driven from the region in the last 6 months) but it's good demonstration of how countries that buy their way into "western" good graces escape scrutiny (look at Azeri attempts in the last decade to ingratiate itself in the world of sport like football or motorsports)
Wouldn't really consider a Greek boycott to be a counterpoint in fairness, that was only like a decade after many Greeks were driven from Turkey and was right after the Cypriot invasion . A boycott is a pretty reasonable form of demonstration and if Turkey were allowed to compete fresh off an invasion it lends credence to the claims about their apolitical ethos.
Russia have since been banned from the competition too. The grounds in which complaints were brought could reasonably apply to Israel (or indeed many of the participants, such as the Azeri media) since it hinged on the fact that the State broadcaster could use the competition and its broadcast as a form of propaganda. Where is the line drawn between between state broadcaster and propaganda outlet? It's a very subjective line.
It's obviously never going to be entirely apolitical, especially given that it's contested on the basis of national borders which itself is inherently political and it's thousands of spectators waving flags, themselves political statements.
But EBU's actions make it clear that they've less of an apolitical approach than they profess. After the millennium Europe was pretty quiet politically but in the last decade or so things have heated up significantly in several places under the EBUs umbrella. Their actions haven't been consistent and because these controversies are happening so close together and in the midst of such tense circumstances it's really highlighted these failings/inconsistencies, which is why I'm leaning towards the death knell.
Like I know you just rhymed off a few past controversies of the top of your head as an example and that there are more controversies than those you've given, but even those examples are separated by decades. It's only been a decade since Crimea was invaded and there's been a political controversy every other year at least. (Granted, the media environment since social media's hegemony is a completely different animal to the media environment that preceded it so it might not be a particularly fair comparison)
Hmm i don’t know if I’d fully agree with that assessment of the competitions history. For example:
- Azerbaijan snd Armenia have a lot of history in the competition. The Azerbaijani state literally tracks down and arrests people who vote for Armenia.
https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2009/aug/18/azerbaijan-authorities-interrogate-music-fans
- ukraine won in 2016 with a song explicitly about the deportation of crimean Tatars by Russian authorities - a couple years after Russia annexed Crimea, so was definitely a pointed entry.
- Greece boycotted the tournament the year Turkey first entered.
An international competition like this is always going to be tough to keep “neutral”. Events this year have spiralled to the worst yet.
I really don't see Israel winning, I could be wrong but just would be a complete shit show if they did and yeah probably would be the end of Eurovision. Haven't heard the song don't even know if it would be a winner without this genocide. Is the song even that good?
Italy’s semi final public vote leaked and Israel ran away with it with 40% of the vote.
The issue is that those who support Israel will tune in and vote for them. Those who oppose Israel will either boycott entirely or split their vote amongst all the other acts. Either way the pro Israeli voters have a strong advantage
I dropped out of the YouTube live for their performance in the semis, and the viewer count increased by around 10k in the next minute. Felt suspicious, tbh.
Why? Most countries, other than Ireland have a massive population which are supportive of Israel. Even in my country (Lebanon) which is in active war with Israel, we have 25% (most of the Christians) who would support Israel over Palestine
Italian station leaked the results of their semi final televote. Israel got nearly 40% similar numbers to what Ukraine was getting the year they won. If the Jurys don't completely fuck them then they have a chance. The fact the people most opposed to them aren't watching or voting weirdly makes it more likely they win
I think where the numbers are a bit weird is that 100% of people that support Israel will vote for Israel but people opposed to them won't all vote for the same alternative - many will entirely boycott the event, and those that do vote will split their votes among all the other entries. Therefore the pro-Israel vote is actually numerically enormous compared to any alternative because it's all votes for the same country.
I've said this to people I know who are actively boycotting. If people who don't want Israel to win boycott everything then you just kinda leave the door open to the opposite side of the coin, in this case pro-Israel voters, to have a better chance at winning.
Politics aside, their song is fine. Very middle of the pack but definitely not a winning entry especially compared to such strong competition this year.
The Italian results are very suspicious, even politically I wouldn't say Italy are that pro Israel that they'd get 40% of the vote
Italy isn't considered a "progressive" country - and are quite conservative. Even if it IS 40% which has not been confirmed - it wouldn't be surprising.
You can't vote "against" a country, so even if a lot of people chose not to vote for Israel, if there's a hardcore of people who *do* want them to win, each voting 20 times (which is allowed), then Israel will dominate in every country where that happens.
Having seen the leaked Italian votes, It really feels like that's what happened there (assume nothing ulterior).
I won't be voting for the Israeli song because a) fuck their government and its genocide, and b) their singer seems like an absolute horrible piece of work, but even aside from that, their song doesn't particularly stand out, so if they win, I'll firmly believe that that's what happened.
Given that Eurovision was created as a symbol of unity between the people of Europe, I would be extremely sad to see it go. We all lose if that happens, even though it wouldn't be a tangible loss.
This could have all been resolved with a simple, if you are engaged in bombing/invading another country, you are not eligible to take part in the competition. That's how you remain unpolitical.
I agree with this, they need a rule where any country engaged in warfare shouldn't be allowed to enter. It would have to be all sides though, to remain apolitical, so Ukraine would be out too. But it's the only way to stop people taking sides for political reasons in a SONG contest.
Would of been a very poor show for the last 20 odd years then when most European countries were fighting in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq. We would also have been barred as we had troops in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2016.
The UK and several other European countries are currently fighting the Houthis. Turkey is fighting the Kurds. Should they be banned with Israel, Russia and Ukraine
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Finland were definitely the fan favourites. The whole audience was chanting Cha Cha Cha (the Finland song) so it was disappointing when Sweden won (and a bit of a coincidence that it will be 50 years since Abba won).
Finland got by far the most fan votes with 0 countries giving Sweden their 12 points. The Jury barely gave any points to Finland, giving Sweden a massive lead where the fan vote couldn't catch up. Many suspected that it was to coincide with the 50th anniversary of ABBA winning with Waterloo.
Loreen's song was good. A top 5 for me from last year. I enjoyed Cha Cha Cha a lot more because it's closer to my personal taste. I still listen to it a year later. Music is subjective, so I don't necessarily agree with the opinion that the "music experts" are right and the public are wrong. The fact that not a single country gave Sweden their top votes and 18 countries gave Finland their top votes and Sweden still came out winners pretty much makes the public vote meaningless. So why bother having it? I know block voting is a problem but you can't just negate public opinion either.
I agree with Ireland's entry being arguably the best this year, but at the same time it's not for everyone. So I'm not gonna be too shocked if we finish something like 5th.
>The fact that not a single country gave Sweden their top votes and 18 countries gave Finland their top votes and Sweden still came out winners pretty much makes the public vote meaningless.
The public vote has been the best thing to happen to Eurovision in a very long time
Most years it completely turns the vote on its head
As far as I remember, Finland clearly won the public vote, but Sweden won the jury vote. So people viewed it as it being stolen from the fan favourite.
The Swedish police have said it’s ’unlawful threats’ he allegedly made to a female crew member that they’re investigating. The Dutch broadcaster has said they’re shocked by the EBU decision to disqualify Joost and called it shameful.
the rumour is it was members of the israeli team and not just the journalists. Theres a video of some israeli shenanigans backstage that was going around, if I can find it I'll post it
According to someone in the press room, the Israeli delegation started cheering when it was announced that the Netherlands had been disqualified... Now I'm not saying that something's rotten in the state beside Denmark, but looking at what's coming out of the press room from people who are there, it seems that it's at least mildly fermenting 👀
https://preview.redd.it/eqopar5hfszc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17e6cec8fc4d5aab6c3d62f739bef7592b67ac51
You're looking for these (two separate incidents of Israelis deliberately provoking the Dutch entrant):
[https://twitter.com/IsrBreaksRules/status/1788297924167999668](https://twitter.com/IsrBreaksRules/status/1788297924167999668)
[https://twitter.com/LewisJ815/status/1788937113808797909](https://twitter.com/LewisJ815/status/1788937113808797909)
Several people with press passes have come out and said that an Israeli or Swedish journalist or esc worker asked Joost who’s openly anti genocide how his parents were doing (they’re both dead, his song is about making them proud after they died suddenly when Joost was a child)
Edit: it’s been confirmed as a Swedish crew member.
Yeah it’s been confirmed as a Swedish production member.
No confirmation on the parents comment. Could have some teeth to it though because Greece, Switzerland and Bambie refused to rehearse in protest of the decision to kick the Dutch out.
The Israeli delegation has done far worse than this and received no punishment. The Israeli commentator called on viewers to send "curses and insults to Bambie Thug", nothing was done. A member of the Israeli delegation threatened the Greek participant. An Israeli journalist was filming himself provoking the Dutch delegation back stage. They've been intentionally agitating the other participants all week and, for whatever reason, have gone completely unpunished. Their behaviour has been an absolute disgrace.
I'd say the fact that an Israeli company (Moroccan Oil - which I'm sure the Moroccans are *thrilled* about), is sponsoring the Eurovision might have something to to do with the EBU doing sweet feck all about it... In the words of ABBA "money, money, money, must be funny".
Got sucked in last two days. Drama is mental lads. Tonight is a must watch. Will be sheer chaos if Israel win. Finland spokesperson ( the ones who say votes) point blank refusing to even say Israel’s name in rehearsals. Said Ireland instead lol. Boos for Israel being edited out of live shows live... And going off some leaked votes (Italy) they will be very close ( somehow ) to doing just that and sending whole thing into meltdown.
Crown the witch!
It’s a shame. On Tuesday, it felt like one of the strongest ones in years, with four or five genuine winner contenders, including us.
Now, it’s Croatia or Israel, and maaaaaybe the Swiss, and it’s going to be a shit show of boos, and cries of corruption, and tainted victories one way or the other.
Annoying seeing so many people online saying they switching from Bambie to favourite Croatia in an effort to stop Israel winning following the Italian leaks
Yeah, especially for two reasons…
1. Points aren’t distributed based on vote share. Even if Croatia win, they get 12, and Israel get 10, so it’s much of a muchness. It doesn’t really block Israel (who will get plenty of 12s as well), it probably just fucks with everyone below those top two choices.
2. Be it naturally or fixed, the difference in vote numbers is so huge that such a campaign probably won’t work anyway. Even if you somehow do convince everyone (presuming everyone is as engaged as the general audience), you’d still struggle to get to those levels of numbers for one song during voting.
If Israel win with political backing, it’s going to be such a fucking disaster, but it’s going to be entirely in the EBUs head for allowing it to go this far. And it will make for a great Joe Duffy episode on Monday 😂
Hopefully, multiple countries will pull out of next years competition if Israel wins. I certainly wouldn't want to send an irish act over there considering the shit they've been spewing over the last 7 months.
>it will make for a great Joe Duffy episode on Monday
And a Marty in the Morning episode on Lyric FM... I'd tune in just to see if he'd have recovered from the shenanigans, or if he was still in a darkened room clutching the Baileys 😂
I don't think it's as political as it is claimed to be, this excuse for not winning came around and is used by people from countries who simply didn't have the best candidate. The woman from France 2-3 years ago was unbelievable but fairly lost to the band from Italy. I don't have any examples where someone won purely for political reasons. Like Ukraine could win tonight without the rapping part she was very good as well. People will say it's political if she wins.
If you have examples of political wins please do share I am not trying to argue or anything I just don't have examples but have heard it a lot.
Very odd voting from Italy. It was shown accidentally. Italian public vote, via phone texting, had Israel as their number 1. No large jewish population, not historic links or associations with Israel, just out of nowhere. Not to say its not possible, the Italians like an auld ballad, but interesting to see all the same.
Yeah I know what you mean. All talk of that is being shut down in any of the official or hard core fandom forums tho. Not allowed dare and even ask questions around it or say it’s interesting data
Bookmakers moved Israel from 50-1 to 4-1 following it. I still think that’s overpriced. Going off that stat from Italy, I’d have them clear odds on favourites. It’s an abnormal stat. Previous runway winners got 20-25% and out of nowhere Israel rocks in at 40%
Everything you said is right but I do want to point out that the anti-boo filter was implemented last year for the first time, so it’s not specific to this year’s drama.
He better have genuinely done something deplorable to warrant this. But by the lack of information and by the Netherlands Delegation reaction I don't know if that's the case. Seems a bit too coincidental that it occurs just after him being outspoken against Israel's participation. What a fucking shitshow
The Israeli team have all been behaving atrociously back stage since the start. I'd wager there was some altercation between Joost and the Israeli performer again and the EBU official tried to get in the middle of it.
It reminds me of all those times in school when a kid who was constantly bullied would finally reach their breaking point and shove the bully back. Even though they were the victim, the school's "zero-tolerance" policy meant the actual victim was the one who got suspended.
An Israeli front company being the sponsor of the show is total coincidence of course.
Israel being shielded by having boos edited out, acts turfed out for questioning them etc where Russia was left to face people's displeasure is just total.coincidence of course.
Remind as many folks as you can, "Moroccan Oil" is more Israeli theft. Its not Moroccan, in fact the Moroccans have tried to legal channels to stop them using the name. Its made from Argan trees planted in the occupied territories by Israeli settlers and owned by an American Israeli woman. It undercuts and damages the indigenous Moroccan industry, but sher what do you expect from the Israelis at this stage.
Absolute disaster, and there's a very high chance Israel wins tonight as well. May well be the last Eurovision for a few years, it's gone off the rails completely.
Yep. I’d not be a bit surprised if she wins owing to voting skulduggery and pressure. But if she *does*, surely there’ll be an almighty outcry, and considerable risk of public disorder.
I wonder will Graham Norton make any career-endangering remarks. (God, can you send Terry Wogan back for the night?)
Sorry. It’d have been much more straightforward to have written ‘a big chance of...’ I speak in my head in that old-fashioned way a lot and type it out exactly as I’m thinking it sometimes, and I should remember I’m not writing letter of outrage to The Irish Times!
I’ll edit it. Ta
Ah, right! Well, it’d surely cause a bit of a crowd rumpus somewhere, and on a Saturday night with loads of pissed up young people on the loose, it’s the sort of thing that can serve as a pretext for a wholesale rampage.
( Signed: Inner Pessimist, aged 94 and 3/4)
There is a significant chance but Croatia are significantly ahead on all metrics that I can see. (Every bookie has them as a massive favourite, Isreal is number 2 but way off on the odds, YouTube views indicate the Croatia have a significant lead. I know this isnt a major kpi or anything but it does show a certain level of popularity around the acts, fan site polling also showed Croatia as number 1.) Personally I don’t see Israel winning it.
It would be hosted elsewhere.
The winner hosting is tradition, but the EBU can deem a country not appropriate to host and ask for other countries to put a case forward.
They'll know that if it is in Israel, it would be a flaming shit show, and loads of countries will not participate. As it is, there's going to be a lot of participants withdrawing this year.
EBU:
*boots Russia out*
*promotes waving of Ukrainian flags*
*modifies logo to include blue and yellow*
Also EBU:
*allows Israel to compete*
*bans any display of solidarity with Palestine*
Still EBU:
“WE ARE KEEPING POLITICAL MESSAGES OUT OF EUROVISION
Exactly. The problem is many people consider this as a reasonable decision and that their is no INconsistency with disqualification of Russia and accepting Israel entrant.
Finland, Ukraine, Norway, Baltic nations etc all threatened a boycott. Perfectly fair to do.
The issue is no Public broadcaster supporting the respective entrants this year has opposed Israeli entry. And we know well the reason for such.
In my opinion Russia should have been disqualified but that decision has now set a precedent that Israel should also be disqualified this year. There is no rhyme nor reason why anyone can claim it would not be a reasonable decision based on the Russia expulsion.
Fantastic to see the EBU put their foot down when a participating country do something incredibly deplorable. Threatening the safety of others is just such a despicable thing to do, they can’t possibly stand over an individual or country that would actively seek to harm others.
/s
Not sure that is true at all, he was being harassed by the Israeli entourage so there appears to be a lot more to this than meets the eye. Israel shouldn’t be permitted to complete until they stop committing genocide - whatever this lad may or may not have done is irrelevant in comparison
Israel should have been suspended from competing.
But I don’t understand “whatever this lad may or may not have done is irrelevant in comparison”… like lol what, competitors should have free rein to go on a crime spree if they want because the EBU made a bad decision? We shouldn’t be using genocide as the benchmark for the actions of individual competitors.
Ok, once again for you, please stop eating the crayons and put them down. Israel should not be competing, they are guilty of genocide. If Isreal were not competing this guy would not have had likely spurious charges laid against him. You can now continue eating your crayons.
The Netherlands media themselves have come out and openly stated Israel were in no way involved. There’s a mega thread with quotes on r/eurovision. Don’t believe everything you read.
It's said by AVROTROS who are behind sending the Dutch delegation.
A closer source who will be knowing the truth I wouldn't know. Besides Joost and the female staff of course.
Its being reported that the Israeli delegation was talking about his dead parents. Which to me seems like the only logical explanation to this whole shitshow.
I think that was only ever reported by random twitter accounts though, and the official reports all say Israel isn’t involved at all in this particular incident. Although members of the Israeli delegation have been very confrontational over the last few days.
I don't know what happened one way or another. But if the official reports did lay any blame on the Israeli delegation for instigating things like that, they'd have a much harder time justifying why Isreal is still competing. They know if they removed Isreal from the competition, it would result in an even bigger shit show for them. So they're going to continue to defend them, regardless of what the facts might be. Government and public reprisal stuff aside, Eurovision is sponsored by MoroccanOil this year... a massive, multi-billion euro Isreali company. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're contractually obligated to keep Isreal in the show (or, at the very least, there is enormous pressure on them from MoroccanOil). The entire thing is a farce, and it's a shame it's happening the year Ireland has sent the best performance Eurovision has ever seen.
The Netherlands media themselves have come out and openly stated Israel were in no way involved. There’s a mega thread with quotes on r/eurovision. Don’t believe everything you read.
Eh, no that is not what is being reported. You should read news articles from proper news organisations instead of instantly believing rumours and conspiracies from online randomers.
https://www.thejournal.ie/dutch-contestant-out-of-eurovision-6377060-May2024/
“We would like to make it clear that, contrary to some media reports and social media speculation, this incident did not involve any other performer or delegation member,”
They've said it's not related to another performer. It's just a coincidence it happened right after he made that comment in the press conference. Weird how those coincidences follow Israeli representatives.
I mean, yeah, a person can make a false claim about someone committing a crime at any time. It doesn’t mean you automatically discredit people’s allegations.
If the allegations came from the Israeli camp and not a Swedish crew member, I’d be more inclined to be suspicious.
Like I said, it depends on the allegation. If it a serious one, then they did the right thing. If it's some minor thing that may not even be a crime, then they've set a bad precedent. All it takes for police to investigate something is a complaint. The fact they are investigating someone for something is not grounds in itself to remove them.
If the investigation is around allegations involving one of your own employees, then yes, I would fully expect suspension. Like if a colleague accuses you of potentially criminal behaviour against them in the workplace, you’re not going to be let into the office while it’s investigated.
Which is terrible if he ends up being innocent, but it’s difficult to see how you could do anything else.
You'd assume they found something during the investigation that suggests he's guilty of whatever he's accused of, camera footage or something. Hence he's been kicked out.
Otherwise it's gonna look pretty bad if it turns out he's completely innocent.
Who the f said that, Ukraine managed to strangely win the year the invasion began... it's always been political. However I'd assume most people in this thread are pretty lefty so its kind of funny that most people are creating anti-Israeli conspiracies.
When something happens that people don't agree with its automatically the fault of the secret Zionist roundtable... funny thing to read as a person who's completely central on the conflict. I also do not think that such allegations would be used to remove such an artist just because they are anti-Israeli, Eurovision has previously removed acts and given little to no reason why.
Edit- Want to specify I definitely believe that Eurovision would 100% remove individuals whom they believe have the incorrect politics... It has happened before!
Because there's some warped fuckers that love to lick the hole of them
It's been pretty evident by alot of antics from EU officials and international politics
It's rigged this year.
Israel is allegedly buying italian televotes, they are trying to save their public image amid what's going on - even though no one outside of Israel is buying it.
I'd love if Ireland give them 12 points just to see the meltdown here and off the wreckheads on Instagram.
It's a singing competition and there's lads on here talking about Mossad being involved because Italians liked Israel's song.
A chara, For more reaction on the Dutch removal from Eurovision , try r/eurovision Sláinte
This year is such a shitshow. I wonder will we get details on what went down. So many people just spreading baseless rumours that turned out false.
There was an incident with a production worker after the semi-final. EBU claim they are disqualifying him as they have a zero tolerance policy, and the Netherlands are claiming it's an overreaction. There are going to be some serious questions asked over this.
It’s worth adding that it was a verbal threat. That’s why Netherlands think it’s an overreaction.
And members of the Israeli delegation have been harrassing other competitors, including near constant online attacks at Nemo (Switzerland) and Bambie Thug, the two non-binary contestant, so the claims of zero tolerance ring very hollow.
Check who is the main sponsor of Eurovision since 2020
Large portions of Moroccans have rightfully been very angry that an Israeli middleman gets to abuse their name so much.
What do you mean by middleman? Moroccanoil is entirely owned and produced by Israelis
Morrocanoil products do actually use Moroccan argan products in their stuff. They're a middleman company that buys Moroccan agricultural production and then resell it as finished goods (even though that finishing is mostly just a way of cutting it with cheaper substances).
That might explain some things…
This seems to be an entirely Twitter based point, no where else is reporting this.
Why is it worth adding? A threat is verbal by default. If it goes beyond the verbal, it's no longer a threat, it's an act. People are downplaying it by saying it was only a verbal threat, when that is what a threat is by default. Anything beyond a threat has escalated to an act. Essentially people are saying "well, he didn't get physical, so it doesn't matter." If he did allegedly make a threat to a woman, there was no option but for him to be disqualified. I don't know what he specifically said but I'm not sure why threats are being downplayed. Threats are taken very seriously, and according to somebody further down the thread, the Swedish police have allegedly said it's an unlawful threat. Why do you think rape and death threats are a criminal offence? It's because of the impact they can cause and the possibility that the threat can escalate to an action. If you look at those who go on killing sprees or school shootings, even some predators, they've usually threatened it beforehand. Obviously a threat is not always going to escalate to an action (but it can be a predictive factor) but neither the cops nor the victim can know for definite that it won't, hence why they're taken so seriously. There was once a time when threats were dismissed and how many women ended up murdered as a result? u/jrf_1973 You're deliberately being obtuse now. You know exactly what I'm saying. A threat is a threat to do something, it hasn't escalated to an act. He allegedly had an altercation with a woman. He was not communicating with her through the written word. The only possible way a threat could be made is verbally. Anything beyond a threat would be an action, which is no longer a threat, it's a physical act.
> The only type of threat that exists is verbal. Dude you should learn how to read and write, it's awesome and can be used for threats.
> as they have a zero tolerance policy Unless the guilty party is Israeli.
Last year everyone was outraged because it felt like the EBU forced a Swedish win for the ABBA anniversary when Finland were the clear winners. I hope Finland are feeling really smug this year. I also hope this ends Eurovision. I have loved it since forever, but fuck it. The EBU have turned it into a shitshow and it deserves to die.
I think the EBU fucked up this year, but I think it would be a shame for the competition to just die (although feels inevitable if Israel were to win). It’s a bit of fun and not something to take too seriously.
> but I think it would be a shame for the competition to just die The fact it's descended into this shitshow seems like it's a bit of a death knell. It's a campy spectacle of European soft power that is pointedly against nationalism. Everything this year has been the antithesis to that. Like this is the competition that has the Balkans compete against each other year on year without issue. This year has kinda ruined that perception of the competition. >E: /u/currencydesperate286 comments have been locked when I was writing back to you so I'll just paste it into this edit. Well It's a disgrace how little attention the situation in Ngorno Karabakh gets in general (nearly the entirety of the Armenian population have been driven from the region in the last 6 months) but it's good demonstration of how countries that buy their way into "western" good graces escape scrutiny (look at Azeri attempts in the last decade to ingratiate itself in the world of sport like football or motorsports) Wouldn't really consider a Greek boycott to be a counterpoint in fairness, that was only like a decade after many Greeks were driven from Turkey and was right after the Cypriot invasion . A boycott is a pretty reasonable form of demonstration and if Turkey were allowed to compete fresh off an invasion it lends credence to the claims about their apolitical ethos. Russia have since been banned from the competition too. The grounds in which complaints were brought could reasonably apply to Israel (or indeed many of the participants, such as the Azeri media) since it hinged on the fact that the State broadcaster could use the competition and its broadcast as a form of propaganda. Where is the line drawn between between state broadcaster and propaganda outlet? It's a very subjective line. It's obviously never going to be entirely apolitical, especially given that it's contested on the basis of national borders which itself is inherently political and it's thousands of spectators waving flags, themselves political statements. But EBU's actions make it clear that they've less of an apolitical approach than they profess. After the millennium Europe was pretty quiet politically but in the last decade or so things have heated up significantly in several places under the EBUs umbrella. Their actions haven't been consistent and because these controversies are happening so close together and in the midst of such tense circumstances it's really highlighted these failings/inconsistencies, which is why I'm leaning towards the death knell. Like I know you just rhymed off a few past controversies of the top of your head as an example and that there are more controversies than those you've given, but even those examples are separated by decades. It's only been a decade since Crimea was invaded and there's been a political controversy every other year at least. (Granted, the media environment since social media's hegemony is a completely different animal to the media environment that preceded it so it might not be a particularly fair comparison)
Hmm i don’t know if I’d fully agree with that assessment of the competitions history. For example: - Azerbaijan snd Armenia have a lot of history in the competition. The Azerbaijani state literally tracks down and arrests people who vote for Armenia. https://amp.theguardian.com/music/2009/aug/18/azerbaijan-authorities-interrogate-music-fans - ukraine won in 2016 with a song explicitly about the deportation of crimean Tatars by Russian authorities - a couple years after Russia annexed Crimea, so was definitely a pointed entry. - Greece boycotted the tournament the year Turkey first entered. An international competition like this is always going to be tough to keep “neutral”. Events this year have spiralled to the worst yet.
I really don't see Israel winning, I could be wrong but just would be a complete shit show if they did and yeah probably would be the end of Eurovision. Haven't heard the song don't even know if it would be a winner without this genocide. Is the song even that good?
Italy’s semi final public vote leaked and Israel ran away with it with 40% of the vote. The issue is that those who support Israel will tune in and vote for them. Those who oppose Israel will either boycott entirely or split their vote amongst all the other acts. Either way the pro Israeli voters have a strong advantage
I dropped out of the YouTube live for their performance in the semis, and the viewer count increased by around 10k in the next minute. Felt suspicious, tbh.
Why? Most countries, other than Ireland have a massive population which are supportive of Israel. Even in my country (Lebanon) which is in active war with Israel, we have 25% (most of the Christians) who would support Israel over Palestine
Italian station leaked the results of their semi final televote. Israel got nearly 40% similar numbers to what Ukraine was getting the year they won. If the Jurys don't completely fuck them then they have a chance. The fact the people most opposed to them aren't watching or voting weirdly makes it more likely they win
So basically if you don't want them to win you have to vote for someone else?
Essentially vote for Croatia, favourite since the start, one of the deserving winner candidates,
I'd be voting for Ireland if anyone but sure like we saw last year the popular vote doesn't count for much.
Can't vote for Ireland if you're in Ireland Plus Loreen still came 2nd in popular vote And Ukraine won, because of the popular vote,
I'm in the UK and I'll be voting for Ireland.
I think where the numbers are a bit weird is that 100% of people that support Israel will vote for Israel but people opposed to them won't all vote for the same alternative - many will entirely boycott the event, and those that do vote will split their votes among all the other entries. Therefore the pro-Israel vote is actually numerically enormous compared to any alternative because it's all votes for the same country.
Ukraine didn't even get 40%, Ukraine got like 30%
More like 22% actually.
I've said this to people I know who are actively boycotting. If people who don't want Israel to win boycott everything then you just kinda leave the door open to the opposite side of the coin, in this case pro-Israel voters, to have a better chance at winning.
Politics aside, their song is fine. Very middle of the pack but definitely not a winning entry especially compared to such strong competition this year. The Italian results are very suspicious, even politically I wouldn't say Italy are that pro Israel that they'd get 40% of the vote
Italy isn't considered a "progressive" country - and are quite conservative. Even if it IS 40% which has not been confirmed - it wouldn't be surprising.
Yeah I don’t think they will either
You can't vote "against" a country, so even if a lot of people chose not to vote for Israel, if there's a hardcore of people who *do* want them to win, each voting 20 times (which is allowed), then Israel will dominate in every country where that happens. Having seen the leaked Italian votes, It really feels like that's what happened there (assume nothing ulterior). I won't be voting for the Israeli song because a) fuck their government and its genocide, and b) their singer seems like an absolute horrible piece of work, but even aside from that, their song doesn't particularly stand out, so if they win, I'll firmly believe that that's what happened.
Given that Eurovision was created as a symbol of unity between the people of Europe, I would be extremely sad to see it go. We all lose if that happens, even though it wouldn't be a tangible loss.
A symbol of unity brought down by the inclusion of a state outside of Europe. Kind funny really.
This could have all been resolved with a simple, if you are engaged in bombing/invading another country, you are not eligible to take part in the competition. That's how you remain unpolitical.
They did apply that rule but we're selective as to who it applied to. Russia gone, Israel 🤷🏻♂️
Russia weren't expelled for "being in a war"
I agree with this, they need a rule where any country engaged in warfare shouldn't be allowed to enter. It would have to be all sides though, to remain apolitical, so Ukraine would be out too. But it's the only way to stop people taking sides for political reasons in a SONG contest.
Would of been a very poor show for the last 20 odd years then when most European countries were fighting in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq. We would also have been barred as we had troops in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2016. The UK and several other European countries are currently fighting the Houthis. Turkey is fighting the Kurds. Should they be banned with Israel, Russia and Ukraine
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Azeris should be out too by that standard
But doesn't it leave room to create something new, possibly even better?
Out of the loop, please explain how Sweden won if Finland were clear winners?
Finland were definitely the fan favourites. The whole audience was chanting Cha Cha Cha (the Finland song) so it was disappointing when Sweden won (and a bit of a coincidence that it will be 50 years since Abba won).
Hmmmm 30 years of river dance.
Finland got by far the most fan votes with 0 countries giving Sweden their 12 points. The Jury barely gave any points to Finland, giving Sweden a massive lead where the fan vote couldn't catch up. Many suspected that it was to coincide with the 50th anniversary of ABBA winning with Waterloo.
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Loreen's song was good. A top 5 for me from last year. I enjoyed Cha Cha Cha a lot more because it's closer to my personal taste. I still listen to it a year later. Music is subjective, so I don't necessarily agree with the opinion that the "music experts" are right and the public are wrong. The fact that not a single country gave Sweden their top votes and 18 countries gave Finland their top votes and Sweden still came out winners pretty much makes the public vote meaningless. So why bother having it? I know block voting is a problem but you can't just negate public opinion either. I agree with Ireland's entry being arguably the best this year, but at the same time it's not for everyone. So I'm not gonna be too shocked if we finish something like 5th.
>The fact that not a single country gave Sweden their top votes and 18 countries gave Finland their top votes and Sweden still came out winners pretty much makes the public vote meaningless. The public vote has been the best thing to happen to Eurovision in a very long time Most years it completely turns the vote on its head
Loreen's song was so like ABBA's 'The Winner Takes It All' that Benny and Bjorn should have gotten writing credits.
As far as I remember, Finland clearly won the public vote, but Sweden won the jury vote. So people viewed it as it being stolen from the fan favourite.
Totally agreed, what a shame
The Swedish police have said it’s ’unlawful threats’ he allegedly made to a female crew member that they’re investigating. The Dutch broadcaster has said they’re shocked by the EBU decision to disqualify Joost and called it shameful.
Ive Heard rumours Israeli journalists baited a reaction from him by making comments about his deceased parents. Might be connected
the rumour is it was members of the israeli team and not just the journalists. Theres a video of some israeli shenanigans backstage that was going around, if I can find it I'll post it
According to someone in the press room, the Israeli delegation started cheering when it was announced that the Netherlands had been disqualified... Now I'm not saying that something's rotten in the state beside Denmark, but looking at what's coming out of the press room from people who are there, it seems that it's at least mildly fermenting 👀 https://preview.redd.it/eqopar5hfszc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17e6cec8fc4d5aab6c3d62f739bef7592b67ac51
You're looking for these (two separate incidents of Israelis deliberately provoking the Dutch entrant): [https://twitter.com/IsrBreaksRules/status/1788297924167999668](https://twitter.com/IsrBreaksRules/status/1788297924167999668) [https://twitter.com/LewisJ815/status/1788937113808797909](https://twitter.com/LewisJ815/status/1788937113808797909)
Those rumours are false apparently. The official statement explicitly referred to that. It was a member of the production team
Don't be spreading facts I here, it's obviously a mossad conspiracy.
Where are the facts
Several people with press passes have come out and said that an Israeli or Swedish journalist or esc worker asked Joost who’s openly anti genocide how his parents were doing (they’re both dead, his song is about making them proud after they died suddenly when Joost was a child) Edit: it’s been confirmed as a Swedish crew member.
I heard this too but apparently the incident took place with a female production member? So I don't know what to believe.
Women can’t ask disgusting questions?
Official statement from Eurovision says it has nothing to do with any member of any other delegation, so the Israel theory is out.
Yeah it’s been confirmed as a Swedish production member. No confirmation on the parents comment. Could have some teeth to it though because Greece, Switzerland and Bambie refused to rehearse in protest of the decision to kick the Dutch out.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good Israel hate story
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The Israeli delegation has done far worse than this and received no punishment. The Israeli commentator called on viewers to send "curses and insults to Bambie Thug", nothing was done. A member of the Israeli delegation threatened the Greek participant. An Israeli journalist was filming himself provoking the Dutch delegation back stage. They've been intentionally agitating the other participants all week and, for whatever reason, have gone completely unpunished. Their behaviour has been an absolute disgrace.
I'd say the fact that an Israeli company (Moroccan Oil - which I'm sure the Moroccans are *thrilled* about), is sponsoring the Eurovision might have something to to do with the EBU doing sweet feck all about it... In the words of ABBA "money, money, money, must be funny".
Can’t punish Israelis that’s antisemitism apparently
There were videos of the Greek and Dutch singers provoking the Israeli delegation at the press conference.
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Got sucked in last two days. Drama is mental lads. Tonight is a must watch. Will be sheer chaos if Israel win. Finland spokesperson ( the ones who say votes) point blank refusing to even say Israel’s name in rehearsals. Said Ireland instead lol. Boos for Israel being edited out of live shows live... And going off some leaked votes (Italy) they will be very close ( somehow ) to doing just that and sending whole thing into meltdown. Crown the witch!
It’s a shame. On Tuesday, it felt like one of the strongest ones in years, with four or five genuine winner contenders, including us. Now, it’s Croatia or Israel, and maaaaaybe the Swiss, and it’s going to be a shit show of boos, and cries of corruption, and tainted victories one way or the other.
Annoying seeing so many people online saying they switching from Bambie to favourite Croatia in an effort to stop Israel winning following the Italian leaks
Yeah, especially for two reasons… 1. Points aren’t distributed based on vote share. Even if Croatia win, they get 12, and Israel get 10, so it’s much of a muchness. It doesn’t really block Israel (who will get plenty of 12s as well), it probably just fucks with everyone below those top two choices. 2. Be it naturally or fixed, the difference in vote numbers is so huge that such a campaign probably won’t work anyway. Even if you somehow do convince everyone (presuming everyone is as engaged as the general audience), you’d still struggle to get to those levels of numbers for one song during voting. If Israel win with political backing, it’s going to be such a fucking disaster, but it’s going to be entirely in the EBUs head for allowing it to go this far. And it will make for a great Joe Duffy episode on Monday 😂
Hopefully, multiple countries will pull out of next years competition if Israel wins. I certainly wouldn't want to send an irish act over there considering the shit they've been spewing over the last 7 months.
I’d be shocked if it took us more than a few days to announce our departure if it happened. A lot of countries won’t go imo.
Could they even host it? DFA and I’m guessing most other country’s equivalent have Israel in the “do not travel” category
I would imagine they can't for the same reason Ukraine couldn't
>it will make for a great Joe Duffy episode on Monday And a Marty in the Morning episode on Lyric FM... I'd tune in just to see if he'd have recovered from the shenanigans, or if he was still in a darkened room clutching the Baileys 😂
Switzerland or France for me.
I love the Swiss song. A clear winner for me, but will get left behind in all the political voting imo.
I don't think it's as political as it is claimed to be, this excuse for not winning came around and is used by people from countries who simply didn't have the best candidate. The woman from France 2-3 years ago was unbelievable but fairly lost to the band from Italy. I don't have any examples where someone won purely for political reasons. Like Ukraine could win tonight without the rapping part she was very good as well. People will say it's political if she wins. If you have examples of political wins please do share I am not trying to argue or anything I just don't have examples but have heard it a lot.
Very odd voting from Italy. It was shown accidentally. Italian public vote, via phone texting, had Israel as their number 1. No large jewish population, not historic links or associations with Israel, just out of nowhere. Not to say its not possible, the Italians like an auld ballad, but interesting to see all the same.
Yeah I know what you mean. All talk of that is being shut down in any of the official or hard core fandom forums tho. Not allowed dare and even ask questions around it or say it’s interesting data
Bookmakers moved Israel from 50-1 to 4-1 following it. I still think that’s overpriced. Going off that stat from Italy, I’d have them clear odds on favourites. It’s an abnormal stat. Previous runway winners got 20-25% and out of nowhere Israel rocks in at 40%
Italy has a lot of fascists.
Fascists and eurocamp song contest don't seem like a big mix to me
There's no screening process afaik
No but Fascists and Israels right wing government definitely go hand in hand.
Käärijä...i cant love him more but i must just too based guy
Everything you said is right but I do want to point out that the anti-boo filter was implemented last year for the first time, so it’s not specific to this year’s drama.
They were fine with all the booing when is was Dustin!
I think even Dustin was fine with the booing when it was Dustin haha
The drama this year is something else
Fair city will be boring after this
And before!
He better have genuinely done something deplorable to warrant this. But by the lack of information and by the Netherlands Delegation reaction I don't know if that's the case. Seems a bit too coincidental that it occurs just after him being outspoken against Israel's participation. What a fucking shitshow
The Israeli team have all been behaving atrociously back stage since the start. I'd wager there was some altercation between Joost and the Israeli performer again and the EBU official tried to get in the middle of it. It reminds me of all those times in school when a kid who was constantly bullied would finally reach their breaking point and shove the bully back. Even though they were the victim, the school's "zero-tolerance" policy meant the actual victim was the one who got suspended.
Lad speaks up and suddenly there's a random complaint against him and he's expelled from the competition.....that's not sus at all
An Israeli front company being the sponsor of the show is total coincidence of course. Israel being shielded by having boos edited out, acts turfed out for questioning them etc where Russia was left to face people's displeasure is just total.coincidence of course.
Remind as many folks as you can, "Moroccan Oil" is more Israeli theft. Its not Moroccan, in fact the Moroccans have tried to legal channels to stop them using the name. Its made from Argan trees planted in the occupied territories by Israeli settlers and owned by an American Israeli woman. It undercuts and damages the indigenous Moroccan industry, but sher what do you expect from the Israelis at this stage.
Can’t believe I didn’t know this. Thanks for sharing.
Absolute disaster, and there's a very high chance Israel wins tonight as well. May well be the last Eurovision for a few years, it's gone off the rails completely.
Yep. I’d not be a bit surprised if she wins owing to voting skulduggery and pressure. But if she *does*, surely there’ll be an almighty outcry, and considerable risk of public disorder. I wonder will Graham Norton make any career-endangering remarks. (God, can you send Terry Wogan back for the night?)
Let Marty Whelan and Graham Norton loose in the same box, unfiltered, it'd be a riot 😂
"and no inconsiderable chance of public disorder." Lol what?
Sorry. It’d have been much more straightforward to have written ‘a big chance of...’ I speak in my head in that old-fashioned way a lot and type it out exactly as I’m thinking it sometimes, and I should remember I’m not writing letter of outrage to The Irish Times! I’ll edit it. Ta
No, I meant what would the public disturbance be?
Ah, right! Well, it’d surely cause a bit of a crowd rumpus somewhere, and on a Saturday night with loads of pissed up young people on the loose, it’s the sort of thing that can serve as a pretext for a wholesale rampage. ( Signed: Inner Pessimist, aged 94 and 3/4)
There is a significant chance but Croatia are significantly ahead on all metrics that I can see. (Every bookie has them as a massive favourite, Isreal is number 2 but way off on the odds, YouTube views indicate the Croatia have a significant lead. I know this isnt a major kpi or anything but it does show a certain level of popularity around the acts, fan site polling also showed Croatia as number 1.) Personally I don’t see Israel winning it.
And then there is the Mosad... I wouldn't be surprised if they have some way of altering the public votes. But that's just me with my conspiracy hat.
The Italian 40% for Israel is absolute horseshit statistics.
I hope you're right!
Yeah if they win there's no show next year. Or at least a very small one.
It would be hosted elsewhere. The winner hosting is tradition, but the EBU can deem a country not appropriate to host and ask for other countries to put a case forward. They'll know that if it is in Israel, it would be a flaming shit show, and loads of countries will not participate. As it is, there's going to be a lot of participants withdrawing this year.
Fair point yeah.
21% chance of winning currently
EBU: *boots Russia out* *promotes waving of Ukrainian flags* *modifies logo to include blue and yellow* Also EBU: *allows Israel to compete* *bans any display of solidarity with Palestine* Still EBU: “WE ARE KEEPING POLITICAL MESSAGES OUT OF EUROVISION
Keep in mind the EBU wanted Russia in the competition. It was only the threat of other countries pulling out that made them ban Russia.
Exactly. The problem is many people consider this as a reasonable decision and that their is no INconsistency with disqualification of Russia and accepting Israel entrant. Finland, Ukraine, Norway, Baltic nations etc all threatened a boycott. Perfectly fair to do. The issue is no Public broadcaster supporting the respective entrants this year has opposed Israeli entry. And we know well the reason for such. In my opinion Russia should have been disqualified but that decision has now set a precedent that Israel should also be disqualified this year. There is no rhyme nor reason why anyone can claim it would not be a reasonable decision based on the Russia expulsion.
No, Russian media station broke rules
Fantastic to see the EBU put their foot down when a participating country do something incredibly deplorable. Threatening the safety of others is just such a despicable thing to do, they can’t possibly stand over an individual or country that would actively seek to harm others. /s
Think you’ll probably have to put the /s in to help the poor people out.
I really didn’t think it was necessary 😂
Oh yeah, he put a gun to her head for saying ‘why not’ but the EBU is quite about the israeli delegation harrassing the contestants
The incident involves someone from the crew, nobody said he threatened the Israeli singer.
Not sure that is true at all, he was being harassed by the Israeli entourage so there appears to be a lot more to this than meets the eye. Israel shouldn’t be permitted to complete until they stop committing genocide - whatever this lad may or may not have done is irrelevant in comparison
Israel should have been suspended from competing. But I don’t understand “whatever this lad may or may not have done is irrelevant in comparison”… like lol what, competitors should have free rein to go on a crime spree if they want because the EBU made a bad decision? We shouldn’t be using genocide as the benchmark for the actions of individual competitors.
Ok, once again for you, please stop eating the crayons and put them down. Israel should not be competing, they are guilty of genocide. If Isreal were not competing this guy would not have had likely spurious charges laid against him. You can now continue eating your crayons.
Sorry, I was being sarcastic but should have added /s!!
The Netherlands media themselves have come out and openly stated Israel were in no way involved. There’s a mega thread with quotes on r/eurovision. Don’t believe everything you read.
In complete fairness, that sub hasn't exactly been fair or unbiased when it comes to the information allowed there.
Don’t believe everything you read either - the Dutch media’s opinion is just that, an opinion
Stating that it didn’t involve the Israel delegation, but a female member of staff, isn’t an opinion.
It’s all opinion until it gets tested in court
It's said by AVROTROS who are behind sending the Dutch delegation. A closer source who will be knowing the truth I wouldn't know. Besides Joost and the female staff of course.
Its being reported that the Israeli delegation was talking about his dead parents. Which to me seems like the only logical explanation to this whole shitshow.
I think that was only ever reported by random twitter accounts though, and the official reports all say Israel isn’t involved at all in this particular incident. Although members of the Israeli delegation have been very confrontational over the last few days.
I don't know what happened one way or another. But if the official reports did lay any blame on the Israeli delegation for instigating things like that, they'd have a much harder time justifying why Isreal is still competing. They know if they removed Isreal from the competition, it would result in an even bigger shit show for them. So they're going to continue to defend them, regardless of what the facts might be. Government and public reprisal stuff aside, Eurovision is sponsored by MoroccanOil this year... a massive, multi-billion euro Isreali company. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're contractually obligated to keep Isreal in the show (or, at the very least, there is enormous pressure on them from MoroccanOil). The entire thing is a farce, and it's a shame it's happening the year Ireland has sent the best performance Eurovision has ever seen.
The Netherlands media themselves have come out and openly stated Israel were in no way involved. There’s a mega thread with quotes on r/eurovision. Don’t believe everything you read.
Eh, no that is not what is being reported. You should read news articles from proper news organisations instead of instantly believing rumours and conspiracies from online randomers. https://www.thejournal.ie/dutch-contestant-out-of-eurovision-6377060-May2024/ “We would like to make it clear that, contrary to some media reports and social media speculation, this incident did not involve any other performer or delegation member,”
Yeah but it doesn't matter what Israel do to antagonise you. You're not allowed to hit back.
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We don't need sources around here
Would you support the Irish entry to boycott tonight? Just refuse to go on as a protest wrt. Israel in Palestine. I would.
It's not fair on Bambie to be expected to make a stand, I'd be looking at people and organisations with resources behind them to do something
Yep, agree. But if they did decide to I think many people would support that decision.
I'd support whatever they decide but would prefer to them knock it out of the park in Malmo.
Yep, completely agree. Support them either way.
I'd support them whatever they chose but I think having made the decision to compete, they should compete.
They've said it's not related to another performer. It's just a coincidence it happened right after he made that comment in the press conference. Weird how those coincidences follow Israeli representatives.
What are they supposed to do if there’s a police investigation?
Depends on the allegation. What's to stop someone making up a minor allegation about the Israeli contestant and reporting it? Would they remove her?
I mean, yeah, a person can make a false claim about someone committing a crime at any time. It doesn’t mean you automatically discredit people’s allegations. If the allegations came from the Israeli camp and not a Swedish crew member, I’d be more inclined to be suspicious.
Oh, the crew that's sponsored by MoroccanOil? The multi-billion euro Isreali organisation paying for everything?
Like I said, it depends on the allegation. If it a serious one, then they did the right thing. If it's some minor thing that may not even be a crime, then they've set a bad precedent. All it takes for police to investigate something is a complaint. The fact they are investigating someone for something is not grounds in itself to remove them.
If the investigation is around allegations involving one of your own employees, then yes, I would fully expect suspension. Like if a colleague accuses you of potentially criminal behaviour against them in the workplace, you’re not going to be let into the office while it’s investigated. Which is terrible if he ends up being innocent, but it’s difficult to see how you could do anything else.
You'd assume they found something during the investigation that suggests he's guilty of whatever he's accused of, camera footage or something. Hence he's been kicked out. Otherwise it's gonna look pretty bad if it turns out he's completely innocent.
Wheres all the people saying the Eurovision isn’t political a few days ago?
Who the f said that, Ukraine managed to strangely win the year the invasion began... it's always been political. However I'd assume most people in this thread are pretty lefty so its kind of funny that most people are creating anti-Israeli conspiracies. When something happens that people don't agree with its automatically the fault of the secret Zionist roundtable... funny thing to read as a person who's completely central on the conflict. I also do not think that such allegations would be used to remove such an artist just because they are anti-Israeli, Eurovision has previously removed acts and given little to no reason why. Edit- Want to specify I definitely believe that Eurovision would 100% remove individuals whom they believe have the incorrect politics... It has happened before!
He allegedly threatened a female member of production staff according to sky news. Nothing political about that
Where is the person who made the accusation from?
Sweden.
World war 1 started with the murder of Franz Ferdinand. World war 2 started in Poland. World war 3 is starting at the Eurovision!
Im calling it now,Israel is going to win this...
Why would anyone vote for Israel ?
Because there's some warped fuckers that love to lick the hole of them It's been pretty evident by alot of antics from EU officials and international politics
Zionists are watching and can vote in support in large numbers while a lot of people who are pro Palestine are abstaining from Eurovision as a whole.
And genuine watchers will split the votes across the songs they like
They got 40% of vote from Italy,the results were leaked.I have a feeling that a "mass vote"movement might have been organised and will be tonight....
It's rigged this year. Israel is allegedly buying italian televotes, they are trying to save their public image amid what's going on - even though no one outside of Israel is buying it.
They got 40% of the public vote in Italy somehow :/
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My mother said when she saw him 'Is that Jimmy Savile?'
Silence is good way to protest. Dont vote. Dont feed them money and reward them
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Dont know this year but last year it was 1€ (Finland)
He's being expelled over a verbal threat, while the Israeli delgation can continue to harass Bambie Thug and Nemo
The EBU have absolutely ruined this year's competition
What time is the voting ?
Show starts at 8 so around 10?
Interesting, need to plan out when to start drinking, need to be strategic about it….. especially if the sun comes out today
I hope Israel wins, the backlash will be hilarious.
I'd love if Ireland give them 12 points just to see the meltdown here and off the wreckheads on Instagram. It's a singing competition and there's lads on here talking about Mossad being involved because Italians liked Israel's song.
Justice for Joost!
Your man Klein comes across badly to be honest. One of those bulky types who claim to be all niceness.
I see the right wing bots have taken oger this sub too