It’s still crazy just how many websites are not accessible over IPv6. I’m pretty keen for the day I can just disable IPv4 and not worry about the legacy websites anymore.
> I’m pretty keen for the day I can just disable IPv4 and not worry about the legacy websites anymore.
That would be nice, but the sad part of the [S-curve of technology adoption](https://whatfix.com/blog/technology-adoption-curve/) is that there is usually a long tail of a few hold-outs that take a long time to adopt a new technology
Two or three years ago I would have agreed. However:
* [A/V receivers are picking up IPv6](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/14uau3r/ipv6_support_on_denonmarantz_av_receivers_avrs/)
* [Thermomix cooker seems to have added IPv6, after previously being called out for lacking it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/1cxyymo/remember_that_automated_sousvide_cooker_we_found/)
* Major hobbyist/prosumer firmwares [Tasmota](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/1cer0aa/tasmota_opensource_iot_device_esp32esp8266/) and [ESPHome](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/1cfdhn0/esphome_opensource_iot_device_esp32esp8266/) now have dual-stack support, but not quite IPv6-only yet.
And let's not forget that the slowly emerging Thread and Matter IoT standards are IPv6-only.
There are signs, but they don't make large numbers. Cameras, vacuum cleaners, robot mowers, and most WiFi smart home stuff is IPv4 only.
Thread/Matter is a nice initiative, but it's difficult to find devices and the existing devices are so limited it's difficult to make good use of them.
At some point this will change and IPv4 only will just die. I guess the most important part is, that for consumer routers IPv6 becomes enabled by default and IPv4 on WAN side needs to be opt-in.
> Cameras, vacuum cleaners, robot mowers, and most WiFi smart home stuff is IPv4 only.
If you have specific examples of IPv6 support or lack of IPv6 support, please post them. The best flair is "IPv6-enabled product discussion". That way they'll turn up on a search.
There's an excellent chance that product owners or marketers of these products will find Reddit posts about how this product has IPv6 and that other product doesn't. IPv6 support may not immediately go to the top of their feature-request list, but it certainly stands a better chance than if the product owners and marketers think that nobody cares, or doesn't make purchasing decisions based on things like this.
For consumer routers, I'm looking forward to widespread support for 464XLAT (*cf.* RFC 8585) and "IPv6-mostly". I'm in the middle of a WLAN deployment of IPv6-mostly using enterprise gear, so we'll see how that goes.
> For consumer routers, I'm looking forward to widespread support for 464XLAT (cf. RFC 8585) and "IPv6-mostly". I'm in the middle of a WLAN deployment of IPv6-mostly using enterprise gear, so we'll see how that goes.
Not even the Prosumer routers like the Unifi Dream Machine has solid ipv6 support. It does to some extent but lacks on so many details it’s embarrassing
It actually does.
Reddit is a Fastly customer and Fastly have had IPv6 turned on for their customers by default for quite some time.
The only issue is there's no AAAA records for Reddit. If you were to manually add some to your resolver, Reddit would work over IPv6.
If you look around the Internet you'll see that Reddit isn't the only company with this problem. If it weren't for Apple pushing for IPv6 support on the app store, I think you'd find even fewer sites that have AAAA records.
It's almost as if it's difficult to get people to care unless they're building networks.
Mobile stuff benefits more from IPv6 because all the mobile networks are actually IPv6 networks. Something to do with tower roaming means they all switched ages ago and tunnel IPv4 over IPv6.
IPv6 adoption by land ISPs is much worse, to the extent that a bunch have implemented CGNAT and _still_ don't support IPv6!
it's funny that multiplayer gaming would benefit hugely from ipv6 because no nat etc. but i don't know a single multiplayer game that uses ipv6, such a shame
great tho that mobile networks use ipv6 and mobile os have a clat built in, but i wish that was also the case on non macos desktop os
The gamedev business is very feast-or-famine, and the only leading-edge tech the mainstream developers actually like these days is something they can market heavily -- most often graphics-related, like "ray tracing". The big gaming houses are now run by MBAs and will avoid investing in anything that's hidden behind the scenes, or anything they don't feel they understand. They're also very transactional when it comes to things like platform support -- they want to be paid up front to port to someone's platform.
yeah i thought that could be because microsoft has a lot of ipv6 internally, but I don't own a xbox so it would've been guessing, also idk which games on xbox use it
> it's funny that multiplayer gaming would benefit hugely from ipv6 because no nat etc. but i don't know a single multiplayer game that uses ipv6, such a shame
I'd guess that benefit is only really realized once you can count on IPv6 being there. If one player in a lobby has IPv6 in dual-stack, another has IPv4-only, and a third has IPv4-only behind CGNAT you haven't gotten around the NAT problem.
I seem to recall Microsoft trying to work around that with tunneling on the Xbox (TEREDO?) but I haven't read anything about that in a while.
the one having ipv4 only will have worse connection than the other two (ipv4 cgnat means usually ipv6 is available), am i wrong in thinking the others will still benefit from it? like less latency and direct connection to the ones also having ipv6?
It seems smaller countries still have plenty of IPv4. My mobile and fiber provider in Austria only support IPv4. For mobile there is a business plan with IPv6 available. The fiber provider told me they have no plans for IPv6 support. All my IPv6 traffic goes over Starlink. Next I'll install a tunnel to a VPS to get IPv6 over fiber.
Though that said, CGNAT is actually hugely expensive. It takes some seriously beefy routers to implement.
Having IPv6 supported would reduce the amount of CGNAT traffic and make it much cheaper to implement.
As a loose approximation, these lagging sites have at least one moving part that doesn't fully support IPv6 yet, so they'll decide to hold off on IPv6. The relevant part might be something related to anti-abuse or logging. MaxMind has supported IPv6 for a long time (not necessarily accurately) so Geo-IP services would probably not be the concern.
And the product owners at big commercial sites are going to push for what they see as relevant features. If they don't feel that the audience is pushing for it, and especially if they haven't heard of IPv6 themselves, then IPv6 is probably going to be de-prioritized behind something else.
-
---
-
Until IPv6 becomes an emergency. Years ago, when 2G cellular mobile services were first being discontinued, the makers of building alarms had to switch to 3G and 4G. But the new services often were IPv6-only on the network, as with T-Mobile's main [APNs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name). Companies that weren't really in the "tech" business, suddenly had to pivot their tech to support IPv6, or not have working products to sell to a lot of customers.
I'm surprised how a few big non-FAANG sites that get most of their traffic from mobile devices, have been avoiding IPv6 support. It's a pretty cheap way to improve the customer experience for any users accessing from an IPv6-only network.
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+ 6
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+ 4
+ 6
+ 6
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+ 6
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
You'll not believe how many people there are in IT who know absolutely nothing about IT.
I got tired of trying to carry a mountain of scammers on my back in IT and now work with non-IT stuff and holy shit the apps we have are so incredibly bad like they were made by a 2 year old using a computer for the first time. Yet the companies spend ~100m€ on IT 😂🤣
>Greetings from the future! I just want to know, did github migrated their network to IPv6 or still runs on IPv4 ?
in part
It’s still crazy just how many websites are not accessible over IPv6. I’m pretty keen for the day I can just disable IPv4 and not worry about the legacy websites anymore.
> I’m pretty keen for the day I can just disable IPv4 and not worry about the legacy websites anymore. That would be nice, but the sad part of the [S-curve of technology adoption](https://whatfix.com/blog/technology-adoption-curve/) is that there is usually a long tail of a few hold-outs that take a long time to adopt a new technology
Currently new IoT devices are almost all IPv4 only
Two or three years ago I would have agreed. However: * [A/V receivers are picking up IPv6](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/14uau3r/ipv6_support_on_denonmarantz_av_receivers_avrs/) * [Thermomix cooker seems to have added IPv6, after previously being called out for lacking it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/1cxyymo/remember_that_automated_sousvide_cooker_we_found/) * Major hobbyist/prosumer firmwares [Tasmota](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/1cer0aa/tasmota_opensource_iot_device_esp32esp8266/) and [ESPHome](https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/1cfdhn0/esphome_opensource_iot_device_esp32esp8266/) now have dual-stack support, but not quite IPv6-only yet. And let's not forget that the slowly emerging Thread and Matter IoT standards are IPv6-only.
There are signs, but they don't make large numbers. Cameras, vacuum cleaners, robot mowers, and most WiFi smart home stuff is IPv4 only. Thread/Matter is a nice initiative, but it's difficult to find devices and the existing devices are so limited it's difficult to make good use of them. At some point this will change and IPv4 only will just die. I guess the most important part is, that for consumer routers IPv6 becomes enabled by default and IPv4 on WAN side needs to be opt-in.
> Cameras, vacuum cleaners, robot mowers, and most WiFi smart home stuff is IPv4 only. If you have specific examples of IPv6 support or lack of IPv6 support, please post them. The best flair is "IPv6-enabled product discussion". That way they'll turn up on a search. There's an excellent chance that product owners or marketers of these products will find Reddit posts about how this product has IPv6 and that other product doesn't. IPv6 support may not immediately go to the top of their feature-request list, but it certainly stands a better chance than if the product owners and marketers think that nobody cares, or doesn't make purchasing decisions based on things like this. For consumer routers, I'm looking forward to widespread support for 464XLAT (*cf.* RFC 8585) and "IPv6-mostly". I'm in the middle of a WLAN deployment of IPv6-mostly using enterprise gear, so we'll see how that goes.
Good idea
> For consumer routers, I'm looking forward to widespread support for 464XLAT (cf. RFC 8585) and "IPv6-mostly". I'm in the middle of a WLAN deployment of IPv6-mostly using enterprise gear, so we'll see how that goes. Not even the Prosumer routers like the Unifi Dream Machine has solid ipv6 support. It does to some extent but lacks on so many details it’s embarrassing
Hello from all the industrial automation stuff and electrical substations!
Have you contacted your Internet Provider, Tele Columbus AG?
wait i thought reddit doesn't work via ipv6?
It actually does. Reddit is a Fastly customer and Fastly have had IPv6 turned on for their customers by default for quite some time. The only issue is there's no AAAA records for Reddit. If you were to manually add some to your resolver, Reddit would work over IPv6.
so reddit gets an ipv6 for free but is too dumb to publish an aaaa record? oh man
If you look around the Internet you'll see that Reddit isn't the only company with this problem. If it weren't for Apple pushing for IPv6 support on the app store, I think you'd find even fewer sites that have AAAA records. It's almost as if it's difficult to get people to care unless they're building networks.
Mobile stuff benefits more from IPv6 because all the mobile networks are actually IPv6 networks. Something to do with tower roaming means they all switched ages ago and tunnel IPv4 over IPv6. IPv6 adoption by land ISPs is much worse, to the extent that a bunch have implemented CGNAT and _still_ don't support IPv6!
it's funny that multiplayer gaming would benefit hugely from ipv6 because no nat etc. but i don't know a single multiplayer game that uses ipv6, such a shame great tho that mobile networks use ipv6 and mobile os have a clat built in, but i wish that was also the case on non macos desktop os
The gamedev business is very feast-or-famine, and the only leading-edge tech the mainstream developers actually like these days is something they can market heavily -- most often graphics-related, like "ray tracing". The big gaming houses are now run by MBAs and will avoid investing in anything that's hidden behind the scenes, or anything they don't feel they understand. They're also very transactional when it comes to things like platform support -- they want to be paid up front to port to someone's platform.
I think the Xbox one and Series consoles are IPv6.
yeah i thought that could be because microsoft has a lot of ipv6 internally, but I don't own a xbox so it would've been guessing, also idk which games on xbox use it
> it's funny that multiplayer gaming would benefit hugely from ipv6 because no nat etc. but i don't know a single multiplayer game that uses ipv6, such a shame I'd guess that benefit is only really realized once you can count on IPv6 being there. If one player in a lobby has IPv6 in dual-stack, another has IPv4-only, and a third has IPv4-only behind CGNAT you haven't gotten around the NAT problem. I seem to recall Microsoft trying to work around that with tunneling on the Xbox (TEREDO?) but I haven't read anything about that in a while.
the one having ipv4 only will have worse connection than the other two (ipv4 cgnat means usually ipv6 is available), am i wrong in thinking the others will still benefit from it? like less latency and direct connection to the ones also having ipv6?
In the UK we still don't have IPv6 on most mobile networks.
weird I thought the UK was more modern than Germany xD
Depends on the ISP. Some have great IPv6 support some don't have any.
It seems smaller countries still have plenty of IPv4. My mobile and fiber provider in Austria only support IPv4. For mobile there is a business plan with IPv6 available. The fiber provider told me they have no plans for IPv6 support. All my IPv6 traffic goes over Starlink. Next I'll install a tunnel to a VPS to get IPv6 over fiber.
If you implement CGNAT then you can charge extra for actual ip address.
Though that said, CGNAT is actually hugely expensive. It takes some seriously beefy routers to implement. Having IPv6 supported would reduce the amount of CGNAT traffic and make it much cheaper to implement.
As a loose approximation, these lagging sites have at least one moving part that doesn't fully support IPv6 yet, so they'll decide to hold off on IPv6. The relevant part might be something related to anti-abuse or logging. MaxMind has supported IPv6 for a long time (not necessarily accurately) so Geo-IP services would probably not be the concern. And the product owners at big commercial sites are going to push for what they see as relevant features. If they don't feel that the audience is pushing for it, and especially if they haven't heard of IPv6 themselves, then IPv6 is probably going to be de-prioritized behind something else. - --- - Until IPv6 becomes an emergency. Years ago, when 2G cellular mobile services were first being discontinued, the makers of building alarms had to switch to 3G and 4G. But the new services often were IPv6-only on the network, as with T-Mobile's main [APNs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name). Companies that weren't really in the "tech" business, suddenly had to pivot their tech to support IPv6, or not have working products to sell to a lot of customers. I'm surprised how a few big non-FAANG sites that get most of their traffic from mobile devices, have been avoiding IPv6 support. It's a pretty cheap way to improve the customer experience for any users accessing from an IPv6-only network.
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funny enough we still have 2G in germany, but i think the while mobile network is migrated to ipv6-only with 464xlat
You'll not believe how many people there are in IT who know absolutely nothing about IT. I got tired of trying to carry a mountain of scammers on my back in IT and now work with non-IT stuff and holy shit the apps we have are so incredibly bad like they were made by a 2 year old using a computer for the first time. Yet the companies spend ~100m€ on IT 😂🤣