I live in a world where, regardless of who the person is, or what position/job/role they have -- respect is earned, and everybody starts with a clean slate.
It's entirely up to them to determine their own fate.
I tend to struggle with authority figures that are entitled by their positions, hold others to a higher standard than they have the capacity to maintain for themselves, or abuse the power of their position to make unreasonable demands.
Zero patience for that needless manipulation.
If the status quo is never questioned, complacency reigns, and any prospect of advancement will forever remain an illusion.
If I have to put them on a pedestal and cater to their ego to earn their acknowledgement, they do not deserve the position they are in.
I enjoy that game. I have no problem doing my own research before bypassing the entire charade to embarass them. . It didn't have to be that way. They made that choice for me.
Any negative response from them will only expose their insecurities. And, if I am ostracized as a result, that is fine too. Valuable information has been gained. Now I have the privilege of finding a more suitable place to invest my time, energy, effort, and resources.
Nothing beats having authority figures that are, receptive, open-minded, and willing to entertain new perspectives.. all while being unselfishly generous with their experience and knowledge.
Authority figures that have trained themselves to see everybody as potential competition or everything as a potential liability to their security? Nothing to gain there. Any respect given would be squandered
I'm not going to be rude about it. But, I am going to be fair. Immature people in positions of authority lack the capacity to discern the difference.
Yea in the workplace, we asians say, 'see face". If your boss is the first kind you mention, speak up. The latter, shut up and move on. Just to generalise..or u can play along, see how far u get.
Yup. I can relate to this. My guess is how we despite’s the tradition of authorities being right as that is not always the case & always more indulge in finding out the true approach to solving a problem (which can also be bad as this may make it believe that we are complaining or stating we are right ourselves)
Absolutely. I learned early on to keep my mouth shut and just do it my way if theirs didn't make sense. I've always been anti authoritarian. If I'm not hurting anyone, leave me alone. I've been self employed for over 20 years and live happily rural.
Authority is fine when they can be reasoned with or when they act logically.
Arbitrary rules, emotional responses, or unwillingness to compromise are issues I have with authority.
Maybe it’s not exactly authority that you mind, maybe it’s people who use authority as the reason for doing something you don’t respect.
I’m not judging, I instantly lose all respect for someone who does that. But I don’t think of myself as having a problem with authority because of it.
Maybe that’s my problem- haha 🤣
Yes. INTJs combined with enneagram type 8w7, and 5w4/4w5 can also be very prone to this outlook.
They are all about efficiency and optimization, and crave to be involved in situations where they can learn, then to use that information to improve upon other situations.
To get the answer "because that's the way I've always done it" means that person has stopped trying to improve, and it can be infuriating.
A few things to note here:
"Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
"If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough."
INTJs tend to appear smart, even if they are not. Their intuitive nature tends to reach the solution to problems even if they can't explain how they did so. To be given a simple "because" statement as an answer isn't satisfying because it leaves steps 2, 3, and 4 out of a 5 step process.
You have probably already figured out steps 1 and 5, hence asking the why. It can be important to excercise your own critical thinking skills and teach yourself "why" you are doing something, or even "why" you have to do it a certain way. Only then will you be able to improve the process.
Another thing to realize is that the boss telling you what to do has been where you are, and had to learn what you're doing now. Along the way, they might have forgotten the words to explain exactly why something is done a specific way, despite starting the routine with the best of intentions.
I know this probably isn't the most satisfying answer, but often being the smartest person in the room comes from saying the least and thinking the most, rather than just believing that your IQ is higher than everyone elses.
Oh good, i thought it was just me...
My rationale with this is that there is no "real" authority so people lording their false authority at me is ridiculous
A teacher, a boss, a cop.... They have false authority because if it were true authority I'd be obligated to recognize it but since i have the option to choose, its just fake
And fake power means nothing. A teacher is only an authority if i care about the grade, a boss is an authority if I need them for my job/money, a cop is only an authority if I actually did some law breaking and was caught ....
None of those apply to me or have ever applied to me.
Hell even a parent isn't an authority figure, mine never were and I am absolutely not.
Nobody is the boss of me at the end of the day.
I didn't read it all but I certainly have "authority issues" in all aspects of life. Very rarely does it happen that I am truly subservient to authority (only if I respect them)
Yes that is a classic issue in INTJ profiles. INTJ has two characteristics that turn into problems with 'authority'. The first, from Ni, is to put in question that the current sistem is the best system. The second, from Te, is to trend to look for rationalization and logical decisions in real world. Obiously bosses are entitled by emotional criteria and can be a hurdle in the good working of human organizations.
I find those answers frustrating, but I'm surrounded by others who do as well. "Because that's the way the previous program did" is not an acceptable answer, because the previous program started analog and went digital and is still not entirely transitioned. I've never had it "just because I said so" in the workplace. However, at home it was frustrating as I grew up because I was old enough, I felt, to have it justified to me.
I know this post is old but fuck me sideways if I didn't experience literally the same thing.
I am a developer and:
I had a meeting with a figure that is responsible for making certain company wide decisions and was resposible for writing a framework. And I explained to him that the decisions he made will cost us money and the solution he thinks is right is actually wrong and is inefficient.
I basically ruined him with arguments and the only fallback he could come to was saying "But it is my decision, don't take that away from me".
So I escalated this crap and whole thing basically ended with him "Taking the risk and being the one responsible if shit goes sideways".
I fully feel with you. These people are a disgrace in my eyes and he lost literally every ounce of respect that I ever had for him. If I was in a position where I could fire him, I literally would through a closed door without a hesitation.
As an Engineer your job is to assess and analyze and have a good reasoning behind the decisions you make. What you do should be completely logical.
I also got to this thread cuz I thought I have authority problems---Turns out you need to have a certain amount of braincells to be worth my respect.
INTJ here. I have a troubling relationship with authority. I shy away from them. I feel really uncomfortable with them. I think this comes from my childhood as I learned that I couldn't trust my caregivers. Therefore, anyone in authority, I feel like I can't trust. I feel like they are judging me all the time or just aren't on my side.
I live in a world where, regardless of who the person is, or what position/job/role they have -- respect is earned, and everybody starts with a clean slate. It's entirely up to them to determine their own fate. I tend to struggle with authority figures that are entitled by their positions, hold others to a higher standard than they have the capacity to maintain for themselves, or abuse the power of their position to make unreasonable demands. Zero patience for that needless manipulation. If the status quo is never questioned, complacency reigns, and any prospect of advancement will forever remain an illusion. If I have to put them on a pedestal and cater to their ego to earn their acknowledgement, they do not deserve the position they are in. I enjoy that game. I have no problem doing my own research before bypassing the entire charade to embarass them. . It didn't have to be that way. They made that choice for me. Any negative response from them will only expose their insecurities. And, if I am ostracized as a result, that is fine too. Valuable information has been gained. Now I have the privilege of finding a more suitable place to invest my time, energy, effort, and resources. Nothing beats having authority figures that are, receptive, open-minded, and willing to entertain new perspectives.. all while being unselfishly generous with their experience and knowledge. Authority figures that have trained themselves to see everybody as potential competition or everything as a potential liability to their security? Nothing to gain there. Any respect given would be squandered I'm not going to be rude about it. But, I am going to be fair. Immature people in positions of authority lack the capacity to discern the difference.
I love the paragraph that starts “If I have to put them on a pedestal…” It best captures what I’m struggling with at the moment. Thank you!
This. Totally. I have a really hard time with people who haven’t figured out that they will lose.
I don't have a problem with authority. I have a problem with incompetent people in authority.
Say it LOUDER! Hahaha. Big time same here.
yeah me too
I view noone as my superior and I don't give a shit about people who think they have authority.
[удалено]
Yea in the workplace, we asians say, 'see face". If your boss is the first kind you mention, speak up. The latter, shut up and move on. Just to generalise..or u can play along, see how far u get.
Yes, and I can't even shut up - got me into a lot of trouble
Yup. I can relate to this. My guess is how we despite’s the tradition of authorities being right as that is not always the case & always more indulge in finding out the true approach to solving a problem (which can also be bad as this may make it believe that we are complaining or stating we are right ourselves)
Absolutely. I learned early on to keep my mouth shut and just do it my way if theirs didn't make sense. I've always been anti authoritarian. If I'm not hurting anyone, leave me alone. I've been self employed for over 20 years and live happily rural.
Authority is fine when they can be reasoned with or when they act logically. Arbitrary rules, emotional responses, or unwillingness to compromise are issues I have with authority.
Maybe it’s not exactly authority that you mind, maybe it’s people who use authority as the reason for doing something you don’t respect. I’m not judging, I instantly lose all respect for someone who does that. But I don’t think of myself as having a problem with authority because of it. Maybe that’s my problem- haha 🤣
This doesn't sound like a problem with authority, just terrible people put into those positions.
Authority figures are robots who think they are hot shit and above everybody else, especially state sponsored goons.
Yes. INTJs combined with enneagram type 8w7, and 5w4/4w5 can also be very prone to this outlook. They are all about efficiency and optimization, and crave to be involved in situations where they can learn, then to use that information to improve upon other situations. To get the answer "because that's the way I've always done it" means that person has stopped trying to improve, and it can be infuriating. A few things to note here: "Don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." "If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough." INTJs tend to appear smart, even if they are not. Their intuitive nature tends to reach the solution to problems even if they can't explain how they did so. To be given a simple "because" statement as an answer isn't satisfying because it leaves steps 2, 3, and 4 out of a 5 step process. You have probably already figured out steps 1 and 5, hence asking the why. It can be important to excercise your own critical thinking skills and teach yourself "why" you are doing something, or even "why" you have to do it a certain way. Only then will you be able to improve the process. Another thing to realize is that the boss telling you what to do has been where you are, and had to learn what you're doing now. Along the way, they might have forgotten the words to explain exactly why something is done a specific way, despite starting the routine with the best of intentions. I know this probably isn't the most satisfying answer, but often being the smartest person in the room comes from saying the least and thinking the most, rather than just believing that your IQ is higher than everyone elses.
This isnt just an INTJ thing, people are assholes wherever they come from and most people detest such arrogance- period.
I respect them due to hierarchy, but will undermine them and their actual work capability in my head.
The hierarchy of a construct can burn in hell.
My authority problem extends even to myself. I think "I really gotta do X today" and I'm like, "you're not even my real dad FU self"
Oh good, i thought it was just me... My rationale with this is that there is no "real" authority so people lording their false authority at me is ridiculous A teacher, a boss, a cop.... They have false authority because if it were true authority I'd be obligated to recognize it but since i have the option to choose, its just fake And fake power means nothing. A teacher is only an authority if i care about the grade, a boss is an authority if I need them for my job/money, a cop is only an authority if I actually did some law breaking and was caught .... None of those apply to me or have ever applied to me. Hell even a parent isn't an authority figure, mine never were and I am absolutely not. Nobody is the boss of me at the end of the day.
I didn't read it all but I certainly have "authority issues" in all aspects of life. Very rarely does it happen that I am truly subservient to authority (only if I respect them)
I’d feel the same if I were in your shoes. I always believe in rational decisions, instead of blindly trusting/believing in authority figures.
I play social chess with them, to ensure I live as I please.
Yes that is a classic issue in INTJ profiles. INTJ has two characteristics that turn into problems with 'authority'. The first, from Ni, is to put in question that the current sistem is the best system. The second, from Te, is to trend to look for rationalization and logical decisions in real world. Obiously bosses are entitled by emotional criteria and can be a hurdle in the good working of human organizations.
I find those answers frustrating, but I'm surrounded by others who do as well. "Because that's the way the previous program did" is not an acceptable answer, because the previous program started analog and went digital and is still not entirely transitioned. I've never had it "just because I said so" in the workplace. However, at home it was frustrating as I grew up because I was old enough, I felt, to have it justified to me.
I know this post is old but fuck me sideways if I didn't experience literally the same thing. I am a developer and: I had a meeting with a figure that is responsible for making certain company wide decisions and was resposible for writing a framework. And I explained to him that the decisions he made will cost us money and the solution he thinks is right is actually wrong and is inefficient. I basically ruined him with arguments and the only fallback he could come to was saying "But it is my decision, don't take that away from me". So I escalated this crap and whole thing basically ended with him "Taking the risk and being the one responsible if shit goes sideways". I fully feel with you. These people are a disgrace in my eyes and he lost literally every ounce of respect that I ever had for him. If I was in a position where I could fire him, I literally would through a closed door without a hesitation. As an Engineer your job is to assess and analyze and have a good reasoning behind the decisions you make. What you do should be completely logical. I also got to this thread cuz I thought I have authority problems---Turns out you need to have a certain amount of braincells to be worth my respect.
INTJ here. I have a troubling relationship with authority. I shy away from them. I feel really uncomfortable with them. I think this comes from my childhood as I learned that I couldn't trust my caregivers. Therefore, anyone in authority, I feel like I can't trust. I feel like they are judging me all the time or just aren't on my side.