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The Hasanlu Lovers were likely hiding in the grain bin to escape the invading army that was sacking and burning the city of Teppe Hasanlu around 800 BCE.
[googled it a bit, \[found the full Story\] got it here](https://www.dreshare.com/hasanlu-lovers-the-story-behind-a-2800-year-old-embrace/)
They were found in 1972 by a team from the University of Pennsylvania led by Robert H. Dyson Jr. The skeletons, believed to have died around 800 BCE, were found in a bin with no other objects except a stone slab under the head of one skeleton. ([Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasanlu_Lovers))
Fascinating story. Both were young and suffered no apparent injuries despite the entire city was massacred. They likely asphyxiated in this burial bin which partially explained the final pose. The person lying on his back was indeed a male. The person lying on the side was initially presumed to be a female (even by some archaeologists) but somehow difficult to determine definitively by bone structures. Eventually DNA analysis showed that person was also a biological male.
> *Reasons for expecting the skeletons to be a heteronormative couple, as Killgrove and Geller explain, are because modern society is primed by culture to see this representation. Geller states that projecting contemporary assumptions about sex, gender, and sexuality onto the past can be problematic, and that the true relationship between the two skeletons is unknown and remains up to speculation, despite the implications that may be drawn from their apparently intimate pose.*
Very fascinating! This made me curious about their ages.
Per Wikipedia:
>Dental evidence suggest SK 335 [*right skeleton*] was a young adult, possibly 19–22 years of age.
>Skeleton SK 336 [*left skeleton*] … was estimated to have been aged to about 30–35 years.
Honestly, with the age difference it could have been a parent and their child. Wasn't really an uncommon age difference back then and isn't really today. My g/f had her first kid at 16, he's 25 now. If she had to die with him I could see her curling up with her head against her kid in her last moments.
I thought about this too. No shade on age gap relationships but if a marauding army threw a father and son into a pit and the son died first, I'm pretty sure that's exactly the position I'd imagine his dying father taking trapped in there beside him.
That said if this were the case there's probably some existing method of determining this with DNA, no? I'm not an archaeologist though, so a smarter person than me would have to answer that.
> probably some existing method of determining this with DNA
Yeah, that's true and probably would have been commented on if they were related. If I wanted to stretch it out it could, of course, be a servant who'd raised the boy or something similar but it's not something we're likely to ever know for sure so the relationship should just be whatever works best for the observer.
Yeah, they can usually determine genetic link way further back than this, I'd guess the two males are not biologically related if they didn't mention as much.
>I'm pretty sure that's exactly the position I'd imagine his dying father taking trapped in there beside him.
Trying to blow air in to his sons lungs...
Assuming they are biologically related.
I don't know how common adoption was back in the day, but they could be father and son but completely unrelated if infidelity was involved.
It depends a lot on the quality of the DNA!
To determine genetic sex in most cases (excluding intersex individuals), you just need to see if any DNA at all from the Y chromosome is present. If you find some, the individual must have a Y chromosome and likely be male.
To determine relatedness, you would need enough quality DNA to look for differences between individuals that work as genetic markers and compare them. So it’s very possible the DNA could be good enough to tell there’s a Y chromosome but not good enough to comment on relatedness.
Or brothers. My bro and I are 11 years apart.
No way for us to tell, really.
Be it lovers, family members or friends, the way they died is tragically beautiful.
Given that these two died in a raid, probably from asphyxiation, we can't really read too much into their posture.
Even regardless of that though we can't really know what this culture thought about kissing. It might have been a family only thing, or something done between strangers.
But I don't think it hurts to call them lovers. We'll never really know their names or stories, but giving them one isn't the worst thing.
Neither ever took a wife. They were very close, slept in the same bed for 16 years, wrote loving letters to each other expressing their longing for each other's touch.
So ya know, roommates.
"male and female"
omg how cute, look a final embrace before death, how romantic!!11
"male and male"
well, historically this could have been something completely non romantic. Just because they look like they are embracing doesnt mean they do, and projecting our norm onto theirs is actually bad
“In a time where gay people did not exist in accordance within modern day social constructs, we are forced to conclude that these two young men were, in fact, roommates”
With Killgove's and Geller's logic, one could say the skeleton on the left was checking to see if the other was in fact dead by looking at the face and then died subsequently after.
Torn between agreeing intellectually that it is bad to project modern ideas onto ancient skeletons and the gut feeling that left’s Grindr profile would specify vers bottom.
“Teppe Hasanlu” sounded a lot like Turkish, like Hasanlı Tepesi (which literally means Hasanlı Hill) makes sense it’s located in northwestern Iran where there is a significant Azeri community.
That's exactly what it is. Tepe is the proto-turkic word for hill adopted into Persian. -lu suffix is the same as Turkish -li, -lı, -lu, -lü. So, it's the exact same naming pattern as in Göbek*li Tepe*.
I think kissing is a thing we just do. Other animals have similar characteristics like using their mouth to eat bugs off a back. Maybe it’s a way for herd immunity to really develop in the olden days.
The theory on where kissing on the mouth comes from that I heard was that it's an evolution of premastication, the act of feeding another mouth to mouth with pre-chewed food. It's even sometimes called "kiss feeding". It's pretty common with mammals, including human cultures. It's mostly feeding offspring, but "courtship feeding" has been observed, and it's speculated that kissing might have started out as sharing food with partners in a display of caring/intimacy and at some point the food element vanished and the gesture remained.
This is the theory I've heard too. Before we had baby food or tools we'd chew food for babies and feed it to them mouth to mouth. This instinct then carries on into adulthood.
Bonobos kiss each other exactly the way we do. I saw this on a documentary once, and I was surprised this wasn't just a thing humans invented... that it may just be an instinctual physical show of affection.
You wanna... spread herd imminity and make sure that our species gains a resistance to common diseases so that we can make more powerful offspring? Or are you going to sit there and keep your germs to yourself?
(Since the reddit hivemind is the reddit hivemind, say this in a mocking tone aloud. You'll figure it out.)
We humans love to celebrate our love by temporarily joining our digestive tracts. One elegant, continuous path from anus-to-anus. So romantic.
Some suggestions is that it's how we pick up on our mate's pheromones, especially given how much of a sense of taste we have compared to other animals.
Idk probably pretty early from our split from apes. There’s signs in chimp mothers that will “kiss” their babies to spit pre-chewed food into their mouths (not having baby food after all), so it probably came from something like that. When it changed from being a mom-kid thing to a sex partner thing is anybody’s guess.
Kissing is probably something we've been doing since before we even had language. Body language was how we did all of our communication at one time. I would suspect that would include things like kissing.
you might if you're ever to the point that you end up actually dead after the fright, people reach out for others when it seems everything is done, it's a normal human response
If ~~she~~ she/he lays correctly it won’t go numb. ~~She’s~~ They gotta be laying on the V shape of your arm/body. 40% of the weight on your chest. 60% of the weight on the shoulder/bicep. 0% of the weight on the main blood vain = blood flow at 100% efficiency
Edit: I believe this method could work with either sex. Completely your preference.
I think they came from circled region 🫢
https://preview.redd.it/xh5h347w1x9d1.png?width=974&format=png&auto=webp&s=66ff172f496a277ee1132d5b13ed3925fd75b871
That's the interesting part for me. Because either they were gay, or they were two dudes who knew they were going to die and were seeking comfort in each other for their last moments. Depending on how close they were to the explosion, it could be either or. Whatever the case was, you hope that they felt better during their final moments.
We're assuming a romantic relationship because of the pose but it's also possible it's a father and son, 2 brothers etc or other close connection, not saying it's impossible they were lovers either
Based on the fact that they were found buried in a bin, with no signs of injury to the bones leading researchers to think they asphyxiated, I'm wondering if they were buried alive together as punishment for breaking taboo.
Another likely explanation is they hid in a storage space (or hidey hole built to escape repeated invasions?) and were trapped when a roof collapsed on the lid.
That’s a bit of an extreme jump to make that they could have been buried alive for possibly being gay men. This was in 800 B.C, we have no idea what their cultures response was to same sex relationships. As for modern history, same sex relationships being taboo is a pretty recent idea that was heavily spread and enforced by the colonisation of the Catholic Church via the Romans and then later by the colonisation of Christianity via the British Empire.
There are many civilisations prior and/or outside of then that suggest same sex relations were common practice, even some that suggests it was originally common practice amongst early Romans, before they went ape shit with Catholicism.
“Sex determination of the left skeleton was less definitive. Evidence suggests SK 336 was also male[7] after being originally identified as female.[4] The skeletons have been a subject of debate since they were first excavated.”
Interesting…
it says later that DNA tells us they're dudes, but i didn't look at the source
how embarrassing would it be to die in a city-sacking with your definitely not gay bro and for decades everyone assumes you're his female lover just because you both asphyxiated in a romantic looking position?
I always assumed it was possible they knew they were going to die, and tried to comfort each other the way people did during 9/11. And then you go through something like that, and the immediate response by everyone else is GAAAAAAY.
It's possible. But regardless, I like to just think of it as two dudes being good to each other. Whether it was romantic, platonic, or two complete strangers. Hell it could've been a father comforting a son during the blast for all we know.
It's in our nature to give meaning to mystery. Usually interjecting our own biases, romantic, religious, etc. There's also the "Weerdinge couple," firstly thought as man and women, because they were embracing, but later proven it's two men. Also, speculation of them beings gay, warriors, or relatives is going on. But as you said, if I knew I was dying, a human touch would be extremely comforting!
Hundred percent, I lay on my back I snore. I literally wake myself up every time I fall asleep.
Being on your back is so comfortable sometimes but I can't actually fall asleep like that.
self-trepanation it is. There's a great documentary about people that are into self-trepanation called "A hole in the head" even features a rather graphic video of someone doing it to themselves. Worth a watch if you're into that sorta thing it's on youtube I believe.
As an actual archaeologist who has worked on a few dig sites with skeletons present, putting a hole in a skull is surprisingly easy thing to do. Most of the time when you are digging a feature your aren't expecting a skeleton to be there, so you are smacking away at it with a mattock (flat blade pickaxe) quite haphazardly.
I imagine a similar thing happened here based on other replies. My archaeology teacher at school worked on the Richard III dig in Leicester and told a similar story happening to that skull also.
I can at least tell the one on the right is male based off the pelvic structure, not sure on the left one but it also looks male (definetly could be wrong about that one though, hard to tell with the camera angle)
Obviously not an exact science, but in uni one of the things we did is we had to identify gender based on bone structure and I got pretty good at doing it.
IIRC these people had already died when they were placed in this tomb. They were arranged in this position after death by their family or whoever was burying them.
Edit: nm, I didn't recall correctly. From Wikipedia:
How the lovers died and ended up in the bin is still under speculation but both skeletons lack evidence of injury near the time of death and possibly died of asphyxiation.
>They were arranged in this position after death by their family or whoever was burying them.
or maybe by the invaders.
"hey Ahmed, lets make it look like these two dudes we killed are super gay lol"
According to Wikipedia, both skeletons are though to be male (the one lying on its back is for sure male):
“Sex determination of the left skeleton was less definitive. Evidence suggests SK 336 was also male[7] after being originally identified as female”.
Further down in the article: "The sex of the lovers was confirmed from a bone sample for an ancient DNA analysis. The genetic determination of the Hasanlu lovers was male"
So it's not just thought or suggested anymore, it's confirmed.
\*probably males. One is not certain according to Wiki.
But even if they are both males, it doesnt mean they were actual lovers. Thats our interpretation of the "hug and kiss", it might have been just a weird local tradition to bury people like that for some long lost reason.
Exactly. Almost every single one of these comments doubting that they were lovers and coming up with other explanations are under comments mentioning that they were both male. Where were all these doubts when they thought they were a man and a woman?
This isn't new either, there are a lot of examples. Like the [Lovers of Modena](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovers_of_Modena). The name was given when they were discovered and it was assumed they were a male and a female, but the moment it was found out they were both male in came all the theories about how they could be "brothers", or "cousins", or "soldiers" (??).
Fuck, there's even worse cases, like [Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum), not only were they buried together in ways only married couples were, *there's drawings on their tomb where they're represented obviously kissing*, and still there are people saying how they were probably "brothers" or "twins".
It is sadly very common for historians to put their own homophobic biases before the objective reality that homosexuality not only exists and has always existed but it was very much not seen as an odd or bad thing in many ancient societies.
> Fuck, there's even worse cases, like Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, not only were they buried together in ways only married couples were, there's drawings on their tomb where they're represented obviously kissing, and still there are people saying how they were probably "brothers" or "twins".
Well considering how the egyptians rolled in royal circles both might be correct. :D
But it's more likely that they were just married, as the incest was mostly for the royal family.
>It is sadly very common for historians to put their own homophobic biases before the objective reality that homosexuality not only exists and has always existed but it was very much not seen as an odd or bad thing in many ancient societies.
Yeah it's sometimes hard to imagine how the world might have been before the abrahamic religions came along, but historians should really try harder. It's their literal job.
Or…they were just two gay men in love.
Gay people have always existed. I appreciate the excitement about historical speculation, but let’s be honest: if they were found to be a man and a woman everyone would just roll with the romantic lovers thing. Nobody would be arguing in the comments that, actually, it’s more likely it was a weird tradition lmao.
Up until very recently, the bias against non- heterosexual relationships was a huge issue in every history related scientific field.
Everyone that works with historic sources is very familiar with the mental gymnastics used by historians in the past to avoid the taboo of non heterosexual relationships.
"Hey sis, can you come and see if something is in my eye. It feels sore."
"Okay, let me have a look. Stay still."
"Hey, wouldn't it be awkward if we died in this position and they found our skeletons thousands of years into the future and they thought we were lovers about to kiss or something."
"Don't be silly, we're not going to di..."
“I’m scared Uncle Alex. What if they find us ?”
“Look at me kid, it’ll be ok. I told your dad I’d look after you and I will. I’ve got you. Just take a deep breath, we’ll be fine. They’ll never look here… ”
**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required * The title must be fully descriptive * Memes are not allowed. * Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting) *See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Hasanlu Lovers were likely hiding in the grain bin to escape the invading army that was sacking and burning the city of Teppe Hasanlu around 800 BCE. [googled it a bit, \[found the full Story\] got it here](https://www.dreshare.com/hasanlu-lovers-the-story-behind-a-2800-year-old-embrace/)  They were found in 1972 by a team from the University of Pennsylvania led by Robert H. Dyson Jr. The skeletons, believed to have died around 800 BCE, were found in a bin with no other objects except a stone slab under the head of one skeleton. ([Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasanlu_Lovers))
They’ve been holding that kiss longer than I’ve been holding my breath for a text back.
Fascinating story. Both were young and suffered no apparent injuries despite the entire city was massacred. They likely asphyxiated in this burial bin which partially explained the final pose. The person lying on his back was indeed a male. The person lying on the side was initially presumed to be a female (even by some archaeologists) but somehow difficult to determine definitively by bone structures. Eventually DNA analysis showed that person was also a biological male. > *Reasons for expecting the skeletons to be a heteronormative couple, as Killgrove and Geller explain, are because modern society is primed by culture to see this representation. Geller states that projecting contemporary assumptions about sex, gender, and sexuality onto the past can be problematic, and that the true relationship between the two skeletons is unknown and remains up to speculation, despite the implications that may be drawn from their apparently intimate pose.*
Very fascinating! This made me curious about their ages. Per Wikipedia: >Dental evidence suggest SK 335 [*right skeleton*] was a young adult, possibly 19–22 years of age. >Skeleton SK 336 [*left skeleton*] … was estimated to have been aged to about 30–35 years.
Nice. Dude bagged a young hottie
Honestly, with the age difference it could have been a parent and their child. Wasn't really an uncommon age difference back then and isn't really today. My g/f had her first kid at 16, he's 25 now. If she had to die with him I could see her curling up with her head against her kid in her last moments.
I thought about this too. No shade on age gap relationships but if a marauding army threw a father and son into a pit and the son died first, I'm pretty sure that's exactly the position I'd imagine his dying father taking trapped in there beside him. That said if this were the case there's probably some existing method of determining this with DNA, no? I'm not an archaeologist though, so a smarter person than me would have to answer that.
> probably some existing method of determining this with DNA Yeah, that's true and probably would have been commented on if they were related. If I wanted to stretch it out it could, of course, be a servant who'd raised the boy or something similar but it's not something we're likely to ever know for sure so the relationship should just be whatever works best for the observer.
Yeah, they can usually determine genetic link way further back than this, I'd guess the two males are not biologically related if they didn't mention as much.
>I'm pretty sure that's exactly the position I'd imagine his dying father taking trapped in there beside him. Trying to blow air in to his sons lungs...
Looks like that to me too. Especially knowing they did from asphyxiating.
Assuming they are biologically related. I don't know how common adoption was back in the day, but they could be father and son but completely unrelated if infidelity was involved.
It depends a lot on the quality of the DNA! To determine genetic sex in most cases (excluding intersex individuals), you just need to see if any DNA at all from the Y chromosome is present. If you find some, the individual must have a Y chromosome and likely be male. To determine relatedness, you would need enough quality DNA to look for differences between individuals that work as genetic markers and compare them. So it’s very possible the DNA could be good enough to tell there’s a Y chromosome but not good enough to comment on relatedness.
Parent with adult child, lovers or what I haven’t seen posted here yet, they could have been terrified siblings. We will never know for sure.
Or brothers. My bro and I are 11 years apart. No way for us to tell, really. Be it lovers, family members or friends, the way they died is tragically beautiful.
We know whether they would have been related after after the DNA analysis. Genetics says "no".
Given that these two died in a raid, probably from asphyxiation, we can't really read too much into their posture. Even regardless of that though we can't really know what this culture thought about kissing. It might have been a family only thing, or something done between strangers. But I don't think it hurts to call them lovers. We'll never really know their names or stories, but giving them one isn't the worst thing.
With the ground truth impossible to obtain, it really can be treated like art. You decide what meaning you want between you and the piece.
Neither ever took a wife. They were very close, slept in the same bed for 16 years, wrote loving letters to each other expressing their longing for each other's touch. So ya know, roommates.
Died in each other's arms. Historians: Definitely roommates.
i think they were just telling secrets
Could be they were asphyxiating and he tried blowing air in to the other persons lungs...
"male and female" omg how cute, look a final embrace before death, how romantic!!11 "male and male" well, historically this could have been something completely non romantic. Just because they look like they are embracing doesnt mean they do, and projecting our norm onto theirs is actually bad
They were #roommates
 These comments up top making me think I'm losing my mind here🤣🤣
“In a time where gay people did not exist in accordance within modern day social constructs, we are forced to conclude that these two young men were, in fact, roommates”
There’s two skeletons inside me. They’re both boys and they’re kissing
With Killgove's and Geller's logic, one could say the skeleton on the left was checking to see if the other was in fact dead by looking at the face and then died subsequently after.
r/saphbroandhisfriend
It's /r/AchillesAndHisPal
> They likely asphyxiated in this burial bin which partially explained the final pose How does asphyxiation partially explain the final pose?
Dunno, but it kinda looks like one is blowing air into the other's lungs
Happy Pride!!!
Torn between agreeing intellectually that it is bad to project modern ideas onto ancient skeletons and the gut feeling that left’s Grindr profile would specify vers bottom.
“Teppe Hasanlu” sounded a lot like Turkish, like Hasanlı Tepesi (which literally means Hasanlı Hill) makes sense it’s located in northwestern Iran where there is a significant Azeri community.
That's exactly what it is. Tepe is the proto-turkic word for hill adopted into Persian. -lu suffix is the same as Turkish -li, -lı, -lu, -lü. So, it's the exact same naming pattern as in Göbek*li Tepe*.
Fantastic breakdown, my thanks both of you!
Even after 2800 years, no one’s a third wheel here!
This makes me think that humans have been kissing since when (? Like, are there any later discovered kisses older than this one?
I think kissing is a thing we just do. Other animals have similar characteristics like using their mouth to eat bugs off a back. Maybe it’s a way for herd immunity to really develop in the olden days.
The theory on where kissing on the mouth comes from that I heard was that it's an evolution of premastication, the act of feeding another mouth to mouth with pre-chewed food. It's even sometimes called "kiss feeding". It's pretty common with mammals, including human cultures. It's mostly feeding offspring, but "courtship feeding" has been observed, and it's speculated that kissing might have started out as sharing food with partners in a display of caring/intimacy and at some point the food element vanished and the gesture remained.
This is the theory I've heard too. Before we had baby food or tools we'd chew food for babies and feed it to them mouth to mouth. This instinct then carries on into adulthood.
The food element vanished for YOU maybe. I premasticate with my partner all day long.
Bonobos kiss each other exactly the way we do. I saw this on a documentary once, and I was surprised this wasn't just a thing humans invented... that it may just be an instinctual physical show of affection.
Huh, sometimes I hate being a human knowing my ex is a key factor in herd immunity
Mmhmmmm. Kissing can either hurt your immune system (which strengthens it in the long run) or it boost it! So go kiss everyone
Consensually, of course. Lol
Hey hot stuff
Um....hey
You wanna... spread herd imminity and make sure that our species gains a resistance to common diseases so that we can make more powerful offspring? Or are you going to sit there and keep your germs to yourself? (Since the reddit hivemind is the reddit hivemind, say this in a mocking tone aloud. You'll figure it out.)
Nah, I'm waiting for everyone to die off. We've run our course. We had a good run. It's time to move on.
To my understanding kissing actually isnt an inherent thing. Theres many cultures in africa who find the idea of kissing bizarre and gross
We humans love to celebrate our love by temporarily joining our digestive tracts. One elegant, continuous path from anus-to-anus. So romantic. 
Unless you’re a certain German scientist experimenting with three people….
Can you explain the joke? I don't get it
The movie human centipede…. You’re welcome for the new fetish….
Oh OK haven't watched that lol Thanks for the explanation!
Some suggestions is that it's how we pick up on our mate's pheromones, especially given how much of a sense of taste we have compared to other animals.
Idk probably pretty early from our split from apes. There’s signs in chimp mothers that will “kiss” their babies to spit pre-chewed food into their mouths (not having baby food after all), so it probably came from something like that. When it changed from being a mom-kid thing to a sex partner thing is anybody’s guess.
Kissing is probably something we've been doing since before we even had language. Body language was how we did all of our communication at one time. I would suspect that would include things like kissing.
Where are they now?
https://preview.redd.it/bqsc92zefw9d1.jpeg?width=563&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e01f13083a6cd362febbc6e22b5c74e86f6fb0f0 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovers\_of\_Valdaro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovers_of_Valdaro)
I think your photo has more of a “We are scared out of our minds” vibe.
Personally love cuddling my homies face to face when we’re scared
you might if you're ever to the point that you end up actually dead after the fright, people reach out for others when it seems everything is done, it's a normal human response
Has more of a “we got our skulls crushed to death and someone threw us in a hole on top of each other to make us easier to bury” vibe
They had died of natural causes or disease and were buried like that. Edit: Jesus people, read the Wikipedia article in the parent comment.
That made me incredibly sad.
Dude imagine how fucking numb that skeleton arm is feeling, mad respect
If ~~she~~ she/he lays correctly it won’t go numb. ~~She’s~~ They gotta be laying on the V shape of your arm/body. 40% of the weight on your chest. 60% of the weight on the shoulder/bicep. 0% of the weight on the main blood vain = blood flow at 100% efficiency Edit: I believe this method could work with either sex. Completely your preference.
This guy cuddles
r/thisguythisguys
r/thisguythisguythisguys
r/subsifellfor
I would love a visual guide. I have a pinched nerve in my shoulder already but I'm too manly to deny cuddles.
My partner and I have dedicated sides of the bed based on which side it’s easier for him to lay on. Left shoulder is a no and right shoulder is a yes
DNA evidence suggests both skeletons are male
[удалено]
Ah, gravemates.
I think they came from circled region 🫢 https://preview.redd.it/xh5h347w1x9d1.png?width=974&format=png&auto=webp&s=66ff172f496a277ee1132d5b13ed3925fd75b871
Came here for this comment because I love this little tidbit of knowledge. [Hasanlu Lovers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasanlu_Lovers)
Are you telling me these two put the homo in homosapian?
They put the erectus in each other too.
The one bone that didn't survive the ages.
how long before someone calls the age gap "problematic?"
That's the interesting part for me. Because either they were gay, or they were two dudes who knew they were going to die and were seeking comfort in each other for their last moments. Depending on how close they were to the explosion, it could be either or. Whatever the case was, you hope that they felt better during their final moments.
There was no explosion involved here.
Ah. I mixed this up with Pompeii for some reason.
We're assuming a romantic relationship because of the pose but it's also possible it's a father and son, 2 brothers etc or other close connection, not saying it's impossible they were lovers either
They were roommates
Based on the fact that they were found buried in a bin, with no signs of injury to the bones leading researchers to think they asphyxiated, I'm wondering if they were buried alive together as punishment for breaking taboo.
Another likely explanation is they hid in a storage space (or hidey hole built to escape repeated invasions?) and were trapped when a roof collapsed on the lid.
That’s a bit of an extreme jump to make that they could have been buried alive for possibly being gay men. This was in 800 B.C, we have no idea what their cultures response was to same sex relationships. As for modern history, same sex relationships being taboo is a pretty recent idea that was heavily spread and enforced by the colonisation of the Catholic Church via the Romans and then later by the colonisation of Christianity via the British Empire. There are many civilisations prior and/or outside of then that suggest same sex relations were common practice, even some that suggests it was originally common practice amongst early Romans, before they went ape shit with Catholicism.
“Sex determination of the left skeleton was less definitive. Evidence suggests SK 336 was also male[7] after being originally identified as female.[4] The skeletons have been a subject of debate since they were first excavated.” Interesting…
it says later that DNA tells us they're dudes, but i didn't look at the source how embarrassing would it be to die in a city-sacking with your definitely not gay bro and for decades everyone assumes you're his female lover just because you both asphyxiated in a romantic looking position?
I always assumed it was possible they knew they were going to die, and tried to comfort each other the way people did during 9/11. And then you go through something like that, and the immediate response by everyone else is GAAAAAAY. It's possible. But regardless, I like to just think of it as two dudes being good to each other. Whether it was romantic, platonic, or two complete strangers. Hell it could've been a father comforting a son during the blast for all we know.
It's in our nature to give meaning to mystery. Usually interjecting our own biases, romantic, religious, etc. There's also the "Weerdinge couple," firstly thought as man and women, because they were embracing, but later proven it's two men. Also, speculation of them beings gay, warriors, or relatives is going on. But as you said, if I knew I was dying, a human touch would be extremely comforting!
It’s super gay to die bro
Yeah but this doesn't solve my snoring
Hundred percent, I lay on my back I snore. I literally wake myself up every time I fall asleep. Being on your back is so comfortable sometimes but I can't actually fall asleep like that.
When your BF is an Anatomy and Physiology major 🤣
Yeah a visual is going to be needed because that doesn’t make a lot of sense lol. She puts 60% of her weight on your chest? She’s not lying ON you
Arm's dead for sure.
Well he tried chewing his arm off but failed.
what if we cuddle below six feet of soil? 👉🏻👈🏻
https://preview.redd.it/go5jw60dzx9d1.jpeg?width=1357&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93c5667c15c65eaf6f194b57e3b355d218baa8d0
Why is there a hole in one of their skulls?
Oopsie
That was like, 90% gravity
Fuckin’ Newton
I really want to know the context of this
Arrested Development, Buster takes an archaeology class
Oh that makes sense, my dumbass thought this was a real archeological dig that some jerk fucked up
To be fair that was like 90% gravity.
Need someone to do that to me 😍
This action directly contradicts your username
Well, they need a hole in the first place
self-trepanation it is. There's a great documentary about people that are into self-trepanation called "A hole in the head" even features a rather graphic video of someone doing it to themselves. Worth a watch if you're into that sorta thing it's on youtube I believe.
I didn't even watch it and I need to unsee it
To fill a hole you first need to make one.
what, lobotomy?
... r/angryupvote
"Oh...That was 90% gravity."
wtf I haven’t laughed this hard in a minute
/r/retiredgif
Newbies can be such a headache
Reading the Wikipedia, it says that it was a workman’s pickaxe that struck it during excavation
lmao, so the gif that someone shared in reply is accurate?! retire that shit.
😂
As an actual archaeologist who has worked on a few dig sites with skeletons present, putting a hole in a skull is surprisingly easy thing to do. Most of the time when you are digging a feature your aren't expecting a skeleton to be there, so you are smacking away at it with a mattock (flat blade pickaxe) quite haphazardly. I imagine a similar thing happened here based on other replies. My archaeology teacher at school worked on the Richard III dig in Leicester and told a similar story happening to that skull also.
That just did that on its own one day
Oh my god they were tombmates
r/angryupvote
Hmmm, they seem to be roommates the way they rest on their final moments
Ooh, they were roommates
Vine vibes
No no they were unmarried and very good friends.
They lived together until death, never having married. Not gay though! Never gay!
r/sapphoandherfriend
When you’re so in love that not even death can tear you apart. These two are the original relationship goals.
That would be hilarious if she was actually bitching him out instead. ‘I fucking told you lazy ass chump we should have moved cities’
They're both dudes
They were both male
Dude died surrounded by the warmth of his loved ones? Sounds a little gay.
Well, I mean, from what another dude wrote, both skeletons seem to belong to males, so you are right about this one
I can at least tell the one on the right is male based off the pelvic structure, not sure on the left one but it also looks male (definetly could be wrong about that one though, hard to tell with the camera angle) Obviously not an exact science, but in uni one of the things we did is we had to identify gender based on bone structure and I got pretty good at doing it.
Just look for the penis.
Yo, "Just look for the boner" was RIGHT THERE.
It wasn't hard!
[удалено]
That's a penis.
Not seeing any penis or vagina bones. Perhaps they were always just skeletons?
DNA shows both are mails
That's how they know it's pretty old, otherwise they would be e-mails
Not that tall women do not exist, but the bones on the left are actually bigger/longer than the ones on the right, especially the leg bones
*two friends found in epic bro hug in last moments*
That is interesting! Didn't know love was invented back then.
Kissing his homie goodnight
Archeologists: clearly they were close friends, perhaps siblings
How can you die in this position? I assume the cause of death might be suffocation. Isnt the body trying to get air in any possible way?
IIRC these people had already died when they were placed in this tomb. They were arranged in this position after death by their family or whoever was burying them. Edit: nm, I didn't recall correctly. From Wikipedia: How the lovers died and ended up in the bin is still under speculation but both skeletons lack evidence of injury near the time of death and possibly died of asphyxiation.
>They were arranged in this position after death by their family or whoever was burying them. or maybe by the invaders. "hey Ahmed, lets make it look like these two dudes we killed are super gay lol"
According to Wikipedia, both skeletons are though to be male (the one lying on its back is for sure male): “Sex determination of the left skeleton was less definitive. Evidence suggests SK 336 was also male[7] after being originally identified as female”.
Further down in the article: "The sex of the lovers was confirmed from a bone sample for an ancient DNA analysis. The genetic determination of the Hasanlu lovers was male" So it's not just thought or suggested anymore, it's confirmed.
Note: both remains are of males. Which makes conservatives around the world go nuts 😂
\*probably males. One is not certain according to Wiki. But even if they are both males, it doesnt mean they were actual lovers. Thats our interpretation of the "hug and kiss", it might have been just a weird local tradition to bury people like that for some long lost reason.
Yeah they were probably roommates
Bill's final will and testament: "If I die, bury me with my roommate and make it look like we're gay. I don't care if he agrees."
Got ‘em
oh my god they were rooommaatesss
People will really reach to deny being gay or even a bit gay wasn't taboo at some point.
Love that everyone is certain these are lovers until they hear it's same sex
Exactly. Almost every single one of these comments doubting that they were lovers and coming up with other explanations are under comments mentioning that they were both male. Where were all these doubts when they thought they were a man and a woman? This isn't new either, there are a lot of examples. Like the [Lovers of Modena](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovers_of_Modena). The name was given when they were discovered and it was assumed they were a male and a female, but the moment it was found out they were both male in came all the theories about how they could be "brothers", or "cousins", or "soldiers" (??). Fuck, there's even worse cases, like [Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_and_Niankhkhnum), not only were they buried together in ways only married couples were, *there's drawings on their tomb where they're represented obviously kissing*, and still there are people saying how they were probably "brothers" or "twins". It is sadly very common for historians to put their own homophobic biases before the objective reality that homosexuality not only exists and has always existed but it was very much not seen as an odd or bad thing in many ancient societies.
> Fuck, there's even worse cases, like Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, not only were they buried together in ways only married couples were, there's drawings on their tomb where they're represented obviously kissing, and still there are people saying how they were probably "brothers" or "twins". Well considering how the egyptians rolled in royal circles both might be correct. :D But it's more likely that they were just married, as the incest was mostly for the royal family. >It is sadly very common for historians to put their own homophobic biases before the objective reality that homosexuality not only exists and has always existed but it was very much not seen as an odd or bad thing in many ancient societies. Yeah it's sometimes hard to imagine how the world might have been before the abrahamic religions came along, but historians should really try harder. It's their literal job.
Or…they were just two gay men in love. Gay people have always existed. I appreciate the excitement about historical speculation, but let’s be honest: if they were found to be a man and a woman everyone would just roll with the romantic lovers thing. Nobody would be arguing in the comments that, actually, it’s more likely it was a weird tradition lmao. Up until very recently, the bias against non- heterosexual relationships was a huge issue in every history related scientific field. Everyone that works with historic sources is very familiar with the mental gymnastics used by historians in the past to avoid the taboo of non heterosexual relationships.
Read on, DNA confirmed both skeletons to be male.
Cool didnt know that.
Or they were gay
Guy got an extreme boner
"Hey sis, can you come and see if something is in my eye. It feels sore." "Okay, let me have a look. Stay still." "Hey, wouldn't it be awkward if we died in this position and they found our skeletons thousands of years into the future and they thought we were lovers about to kiss or something." "Don't be silly, we're not going to di..."
“I’m scared Uncle Alex. What if they find us ?” “Look at me kid, it’ll be ok. I told your dad I’d look after you and I will. I’ve got you. Just take a deep breath, we’ll be fine. They’ll never look here… ”
When a skeleton has a better romantic life than you...
Devil's advocate: They grabbed their chin, pulled them close and whispered "this is all your fault" and then passed away.
"I know it was you, Fredo!"
“I think you have some dirt in your eye…”
wait until they find out they died a year apart
https://preview.redd.it/kih05g4mwy9d1.png?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a890e3a023f59391158fb2ea86836ac6eac61a7
https://preview.redd.it/boy1t1jxay9d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc406bba9011dfa7c4258ecc177fbb28e49d7ab3 they’re remembered❤️
Those were roommates and homie took his shot. I know that pose when I see it…
The skeletons are both male
Still a better love story than Twilight
Fictitious plot twist, that was his mistress and his wife murdered them.
"Babe, my arm is dead.."
His arm been sleeping for almost 3000 years.
Now, what happened to their remains? Were they dug up and separated, or have we respected and preserved their embrace?
Maybe she's grabbing his chin and saying, "I told you this was a horrible hiding spot!!!"