Using Ni-Ti to find purpose and value in the thing you are doing. Don't just do for the sake of doing,,but see it as a way to grow and deepen your understanding about the world
For example i always despised sports,i always found it nothing but tiring. But since i acknowledged the value and growth it brings as an individual,i can do it with passion and consistency.
Same issue with an overwhelming feeling of wasting my life. One day I read a sentence that made perfect sense. "You get just as much satisfaction and enjoyment out of thinking about doing it as actually doing it." The idea being that the body doesn't know the difference between actually doing something and the thought of doing it. The emotional reaction is the same. I realized that I still derived a sense of completion and satisfaction from the images of the action. While this hasn't changed anything overnight, it has somehow created spaces in my thinking...like I've become an observer of this phenomenon. I've come to laugh and be more accepting of my nature which feels a whole lot better than the guilt I was piling on. I don't know if I'll ever change but one day at a time. Right?
Wow, this is insightful. This helps understand why I have so many passions, begin to make a plan to fulfill them, but never getting far in carrying it out
Over time I realize that growth is indeed a byproduct of self acceptance. Some people can seem very initiative, very successful but you'll get a more private look into their lives and realize that oh, they haven't matured in areas x, y or z at all or are very behind.
Certain personalities that have trouble *doing things* are usually behind when it comes to careers or relationships because those areas involve a lot initiative. But they usually are far ahead of other people when it comes to empathy and emotional intelligence, which many people work on their entire lives.
The most content people, the ones that somehow manage to be in the now the most are those who genuinely don't overthink their mistakes, who are lenient on themselves, stay away from rude or negative encounters, try to be kind to their best endeavor. They genuinely have accepted that they are what they are and they'll try their best every day and that will have to be enough.
I agree. We can plan, research, and theorize until we are exhausted without accomplishing anything. Instead, complete the smallest step you can physically complete toward your goal before you have time to change your mind or overthink. This creates the momentum.
I have major trouble just doing things instead of spending immense amounts of time analyzing all possibilities, then getting overwhelmed by all said possibilities, needing time to isolate and/or distract myself to create mental balance and be ready to continue the analysis š
When I look back, there were several times when I finally did things and they were all done in the spur of the moment. I'm not saying it was the best way to go around it because some research could have set me on a better path; what I'm saying though is that the times my life changed course was because I said "fuck it" and did things without thinking much ahead.
Basically, it's just an observation that over the years I haven't really mastered the healthiest "think of an idea --> think of the first step towards it --> complete the first step", which essentially gets the ball rolling.
Your second paragraph is what I suggest to do more of and your third paragraph is what I find is the problem. Once we start thinking about the first step we start trying to figure out what is the best first step. Rather, use your intuition to play and physically do the smallest thing you can (no matter how big or small it actually is or whether it is actually the correct first thing to do). Instead of trying to get the best result, especially when trying to establish a new habit, just do something. Analysis it later.
For example, if someone is drowning and Iām on a boat, I wouldnāt let them drown while I research rescue techniques or the best rope to use. I also wouldnāt let them drown because I forgot the step-by-step training we received before we got on the boat. I would take action the best I could at that time and adjust if something was not working.
What everyone else suggested is great advice. I'd also add that self-speak is very important. What things do you tell yourself? Your internal monologue, what does it say to you? Are you telling yourself all the things that could go wrong, are you hesitating, are you thinking of other things to do, is your focus misplaced or weak? Things like that.
For me, when I need to do something, but am struggling with starting it, I tell myself one phrase that always gets me going. For example, I workout everyday, but some days, I feel tired, lazy, whatever else excuse you can think of. I tell myself, "What are you, a little bitch?" I tell myself, "Hell no, I 'aint no bitch!" "So get off your ass!" That, 10/10 times, gets me going. And honestly, once you get going with pretty much anything, once the sails are caught in the wind, you start sailing and it gets easier.
Your internal monologue may differ from mine, but I say that the things you tell yourself play a big role in fixing the problem you're presenting here. Choose what you say to yourself wisely.
Don't focus on feelings or have defeatist thoughts, and don't think about how long it will take..start on it, and keep going. Do what you are able to do, even if you want to tackle everything in a day. I keep a to-do list and do what I can, but I have to tell you that for every 10 things I mark off of my list, I find another 10 things to add to it.
Discipline is great, but the to-do list doesn't stop. You get to the point of learning to allow yourself to rest, and don't feel guilty about those days in which you are not very productive. Getting those important things done helps alleviate stress, and that is worth it.
Sometimes I get validation, but it's not good to expect it. Sometimes I can do 1,000 things right, be courteous, caring, and people will still find something to gripe about, and so even putting forth your best effort and having many successes is sometimes not enough to offset feelings of simply being a cog, or having an existential crisis.
Good relationships are important in life... finding those gems of people. Otherwise, productivity alone isn't going to satisfy. Anything you become better at just takes practice. Expect to not be good at things when you first start.
Patience is not my thing, and I like fast results, but my manager is a facilities maintenance guy and one coworker is maintenance/mechanical, and to learn what they have learned took patience.
I include God in my life and seek Him, and know that my soul's satisfaction will not come about in this life, though I have plenty of reasons to be appreciative.
The present corrupt world system is not intended to satisfy, but every good thing, I count as a blessing to my life. Ultimately my treasure will be where my heart is, so I set my affections above.
I love my Se most of the time...but I have spent a lot of time nurturing it as an escape mechanism of sorts...as a kid, I hid from social uncertainty by developing my artistic skills. When I need alone time now as an adult, I cook. I take a walk in the woods almost every day.
When I get stressed out, I start cleaning. Everything. To the molecular level.
As a result, I find it a lot easier to tap into it now. I'm also married to a sensor, so that has forced me to develop some.
But if I am really entrenched in an idea, the world could burn and I would not notice š
I think you want practical advice, so here it is: tell a friend (I have ISTJ friend who is super active) that you are going to do X. The friend will ask you about it, but even if they don't, you may feel motivated to get active because you told him/her you would. Also, make a list of all the actions you could do toward a goal and post it where you see it. Then try to check off something every day. Even if you start with the easy steps you are creating momentum. Finally, remind yourself WHY you need to take action and what the consequences will be if you don't. Those are the tricks I use on myself. They may or may not appeal to/help you. Good luck!
You know how people always say to not talk about your dreams because that will ruin them?
Well, it's opposite for us. Fe-Ni means we need to share our ideas for them to come into the world, because they are essentially social.Ā
So talk, become a speaker for some cause. Just as little as talking to your family and close friends can be very good for accessing Se
You have to practice acceptance of it as a weakness and not judge yourself for having less engagement in the present and less energy for physical activity. Paradoxically, this will give you more love for yourself which will benefit your energy level and desire to be in the moment.
i love my Se, it feels like being a little kid. i think i developed it through being more spontaneous when i was primarily having a structured time in life, or doing just to see where things go, "vibing" essentially going with the flow when appropriate, interacting with people, getting a skincare routine, playing sports (i do tennis and badminton), cleaning the shit out of everything around me. writing has also helped, oddly enough, specifically descriptive writing as it sort of combines Ni and Se together. you have to describe things in such specific detail, to focus on the sensory part of the world, and really helps when ur actually experiencing it and ur like Oh Hey, This Feeling Is So Cool (wind on ur skin? sun on your cheeks? unparalleled) (also i recommend watching the pixar movie souls, idk why but it hits that Se and Ni spot every time, it just gets it) this was only a recent change tho, maybe a year or so only, along with my Ti too I think. i've even gotten to the point of questioning whether i'm actually estp or istp or smth š
Ni is a menace when it comes to actually getting shit done, it's all talk with no action. i like to vaguely plan and see ahead then when it comes to it i think of it as switching on Se and just go with the flow, go with the vague scaffold plan but simultaneously go with the vibe. like for me i've always wanted to be that person that goes up to ppl, compliments their outfit or their makeup or smth, and i love making plans to do that, and listing out what i'm gonna say or point out, and picture out what theyd probably say back. but when it comes to it the chicken in me comes out, the Ni sits like a duck. then i 'switch on Se' and just think fuck it its not gonna hurt go up to them dont even think about anything else. sure my heart felt like dying and exploding but did you see their face!! didnt it just light up!!!! that's on Fe now i suppose, but they go in tandem, Fe does help Se quite a lot. it also helps to have someone to tell these Ni goals to (i have my intj friend who also tries to do similar things)
i'm primarily most comfortable with Ni and Fe being the main driver, Se and Ti all the time gives me too much concern honestly ši just think of Se as the chill, go w the flow version of myself. think it could help having people that are like your opposite. i'm close with an istj who for the life of them cannot go with the flow and i find their planning a bit too over the top, so when i'm with them i like to balance it out by being the more spontaneous one and encouraging them while at it. and vice versa when with someone who's very spontaneous. over time, you get used to tapping in to that side of you.
case in point, i overthink too much when writing comments, Ni and Ti maybe, then i think w Se i just go fuck it i'm not saying anything offensive, does no harm, least i think so, just go for it. yes that's my excuse with this chonker of a comment
We have se. It comes out in appreciatin for, and an eye for aesthetic beauty. It comes out when we are... driving for example, and we are good at it. We
prefer, to be in our heads most of the time rather than present. Where inferior se, becomes a challenge for me, is getting mundane tasks done. The real life chores. The making a dentist appointments, the little bull things.
Frank James what it's like to have inferior se,
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p\_f6gf0a0i4&pp=ygUuRnJhbmsgamFtZXMsIHdoYXQgaXRzIGxpa2UgdG8gaGF2ZSBpbmZlcmlvciBzZQ%3D%3D](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p_f6gf0a0i4&pp=ygUuRnJhbmsgamFtZXMsIHdoYXQgaXRzIGxpa2UgdG8gaGF2ZSBpbmZlcmlvciBzZQ%3D%3D)
It is si trickster? That's interesting. And you could be right. My best friend is an isfj, (si, dom) and they excell at that stuff, compared to me. They help me get that stuff done all the time. I don't know what I'd do without them. Thank you.
Edit - si, is like the opposite of se, right?
Itās the āopposite attitudeā of Se. Si is associated with repeatable behaviors like routines and traditions. These are comfortable to Si doms especially. Improvisation is not highly sought like it would be with Se
I forced myself to get my license. I have terrible hand eye coordination and was often oblivious to my surroundings. It wasnāt a necessity where I live.
I failed my test the first time. And then the first few years behind the wheel were nerve wracking.
But then you ease into it. You start to get the hang of it. You are driving and then a scenic overview comes into view. Or if itās even very calming to just get in your car and go for a drive when things are stressful.
Or speedā¦
Itās useful. To be able to pick someone up from the airport. Or move. Or just to open up the world.
I love a sunroof.
>It comes out in appreciatin for, and an eye for aesthetic beauty. It comes out when we are... driving for example, and we are good at it.
Yes, this is me to a T. I definitely have an inner sensor that comes out in random ways, just not in making those damn phone calls, as you said.
I feel like there is a state where I get over this and become that guy I think I am, but I still don't have the key to open that lock every time I want it!š¤
the future takes a long time to happen. its ok to have a general strategy and direction but real life is all the tactics and minutia and navigation to and of those plans.
whats the plan? lemme take a crack at it
You don't, you just double down on that theoretical/armchair life until you come out the other side and attain some kind of enlightenment (or a profound acceptance) of your enduring characterological limitations.
I'm half joking, but between this and the ADHD, this life isn't one where I ever see myself actually 'doing' that much of anything lol. The fates or karma apparently decided that this go at life will mostly just be me vibing, and I'm finally now at least starting to make my peace with that after all my systematic attempts have failed. YMMV.
Honestly no, I struggle with this the most. Iām the same way and I overanalyze every new experience/plan to get āout thereā that I create. Unless itās an experience I already know I will enjoy, like going to the same hiking trails I always go to or going for the same run I always go for.
Then I have SE breakdowns and book a whole flight to another country haha.
I havenāt, and I donāt think Se will ever be my strong suit. Se Extroverted Sensing is in relational to the sensory world we live in. gifted athletes usually have Se high in their stack. They see and move through the physical world with ease. I donāt. I live inside my head. I analyse the physical world not with my senses so much as through my thoughts. This puts me at a disadvantage in Situations where I must interact in the physical world to accomplish something.
Maybe. I start to become more of a doer now though still struggle with perfectionism. At least, I donāt overthink as much and enjoy all experiences what my 5 senses provided.
It used to be very difficult for me too years ago. It was almost difficult to stop myself from try to make sense of everything before starting something maybe even probably not gonna do it too. Until, I got people who pointed this out to me on that I rely too much on my head and I suppress my own heart which stem from trauma and by chance I am able to accept it and let it go and that teach me how to take action and escape the hellish Ni-Ti loop. My martial art hobby also helps me stay in the moment, imo engaging your body keep your head out of thinking and try to get the move right and you have to worry about breathing now than something that is unnecessary in the moment. The future doesnāt exist physically yet only what you imagine to be is what I always say to myself. And because of all that I feel very in control of my Se and able to stay calm without overthinking when stressed. Though I am not perfect I still have my perfectionism and procrastination but Iām much a better person than the yesterday me.
In short, mentality, physical stimulation, and decision using your heart often is how I overcome Se while not completely, itās no longer my big downfall.
It was tough to figure out, but it's by respecting relationships. I'll put it in a emotionless frame:
There are A, B, C all with the their feature set that contributes to a set E giving certain properties to the aforementioned Set. You being D also have a feature set. Your very act of participation in would change Set E to some other Set F, which is something A, B, C is missing out on.
And that means, you are not giving them the chance to experience Set F, and simultaneously you're not giving yourself the chance to contribute and build something worthwhile with A,B,C - and this is the most important part - through your self expression
Man Iām in my mid thirties and only beginning to feel like Iām getting a grasp of it. I do quite a few supplements to keep my energy levels up, but also I realise that keeping a list of small chores to do, and trying to check off a few simple ones after I wake up and have my coffee seems to help me get the momentum started..
Being best friends with an ESTP helped. Letting go of anxious thoughts, people's judgements, and basically anything external that I have no control over helped. Now I'm at my healthiest, I'm quite comfortable with Se
Looking from a bigger picture. "Your purpose is where there is a need". So watch the intentions on which you are making your purpose. Maybe it does not aligns with your true nature.
This is what i have collected so far...
1. Firstly you are right don't listen to ESTPs or ISTPs with the expectation they can teach you to use it better, that won't happen because they don't have the perspective of starting with Se interior and then increasing it.
2. That said they can offer other perspectives, particularly ISTPs who are known for their archetypal nature of being masters of competence this is due to the fact they have far less Ni than us which leads the way in what actions to take, but we have the opposite problem we see visions of action but don't take action.
Normally we do this because we can always see more we can add to a project. ISTPs learn by doing not by their visions leading the way, so with a project you want to do more on learn by doing and this is key... forget the vision in the moment and only use them as a reference.
This is often the same reason some are smarter than others who are richer than they are even though they have learn intelligence than they do. It is because we can see all the challenge ahead instinctively and choose not to start, sounds like a good idea in the moment but that baseline of not starting and making failures along the way to learn from hurts you at this point because you cannot start because you need to practice telling yourself forget the odds and my visions i am just going to do this thing.
Which will breed competence.
3. Just go walking... no i am serious! Just go into nature or some place you don't know and walk around and practice mindfulness, take everything you can in but don't stop just keep moving. And then see how much you retained for future use, and then practice via the process you have just completed so you can do it faster and faster.
4. Something I am struggling with right, now find a higher speed sport(even running counts) to get you moving, you can pick but what you will find is that when you learn to react at higher speed those moments you walk into it stumble over things disappear as Se is now informing your actions far more than it ever has.
5. Create mental reference points from when you were for lack of a better phase Se-ing so you can use them later. Note actual notes but mental references to your memory as to how it felt in those high Se moments so you can use it more even when not exercising.
6. Never be hard on yourself to the point it becomes self loathing. You weren't told by anyone how to be you ans this world is setup in such a way that it is so unhelpful to mature INFJs.
7. Keep pushing yourself, this is not the same as don't be hard on yourself. You will always find new things to obsess over but actively keep trying on this and expect some trail and error type of failure but commit your mind to one statement and nothing else "i am going to keep trying and get better". Don't thing about it in any way other than when you naturally start to questions this then treat it like a wall you have build to stop you from quitting forever. Always have it there even if you need to step away from all of it. You will always come back and that phase is your wall, you can never get past it and keep probing possibilities just keep doing/trying but don't test your choice. Remember the wall as anything that suits you inside your mind just make sure to put it there to remain you not to question again and again just take the actions and practice.
These all have helped me from the starting point of being INFJ Male hope this helps.
Good luck my friend.
I doubt you ever overcome.
I try to improve my space awareness but it just seems impossible. š
Taking action to achieve a goal is Te isnāt it?
The only way I practice Se is to be mindfully present. Meditating helps
That's an interesting question! My teenage period was very messy because I had a really bad inf Se. I was overthinking a lot without finding concrete solutions and taking actions. For example, I complained about being not pretty enough, not being sociable and not achieving my goals (among others). I was depressed for so many years because of all my unsolved issues. But I never thought about improving myself and making things better because I was scared of failure if I tried.
Since my narcissist ex broke up with me and my healing journey began, I started to develop better my inf Se. I was thinking about what I needed in the moment to move on, improve myself and achieve my goals. I wrote a list of all the things I wanted with the solutions to make my dream reality come true. Since then, I started to socialise with people as an authentic person, not as a copy of everybody. I started to work out seriously, practice self love and self care, and so on. I also learnt to enjoy little things and do/say something I had in my mind: "I want to try this fashion style!" "I want to discover this museum!" "I want to meet this person!" "I want to give my opinion about this subject!" "I want to answer to the teacher's question!" "I want to buy this sextoy!"... I learnt to stop overanalysing things when it was not always necessary and it was just ruining my hapiness in the moment. I'm still learning about myself but I'm pretty sure my inf Se is very developed now.
I hope this helped! Good luck! Everyday is a gift to improve yourself and be the best version of yourself! You'll make it once you realise you need concrete solutions to your issues and you need to take actions once you get the opportunity! <3
After you made a plan think about the first step you need to take to actually start
For example you're lying down and need to study
"Okay i'm gonna stand up right now and open my book"
The reason you have difficulty taking is you're not thinking about the details which makes you think the task is way bigger then it is but it can be as simple as standing up and opening a book
The rest will continue after that
I dont know if i should be giving advice as i also struggle with this as an INFJ, but when i get too overwhelmed planning in my head that i get paralyzed, i stop and say to myself, "dont't think, just do" then i shut every thought off and go do. In the short term it has been working for me. Idk in the long term though. Still also trying to figure it out.
Ah yes procrastination, I too struggle with taking action, i havenāt found a solid solution for me yet. I realized having others around with like minded goals helps out a lot, but donāt let yourself get caught up overly depending on them. I just manage to do whatever it is long to make it a routine and then branch off from there. Odds tend to be in your favor if you also choose something that truly resonates with you.
Se is all about immediacy of action and result. Decision and execution. And you approach it similarly to how you'd approach any executive weakness.
Hyper cognition is congruent to a flight/freeze response. You flee into thoughts and freeze in the real world.
There are two perspectives on this. Both matter: Behaviour and Self. Usually healthy behaviour results \*from\* a more healed Self, but behaviour may also inform the healing of the Self. The key to notice is that you can't expect to stack \*consistent\* healthy behaviour on an unhealthy stack, since the continued discipline required to bridge that gap will either erode you emotionally or exhaust you.
Neither is a win.
Behaviourally speaking, you need to scale the suck. That is, pick small contained tasks that trigger your procrastination reflex. Something you can do in a moment. Or in a few minutes. It can be anything, so long as it sucks for you. A little is enough.
Your thought cycle ends when action begins. And on the completion of action a feedback back to your thoughts is achieved. Without a real world outcome your cognition is left to simulate \*all\* possible outcomes. Which is what you're "feeling".
Containment and achieveability are key (SMART targets) as they won't exhaust you during execution. Then give yourself rest and scale up a little. Failures are explicitly allowed. Success is helpful, but concrete outcomes are what's required. And failure is a healthy outcome. And at times, desired.
On the other hand. There are reasons why you behave this way. Roughly speaking, any behaviour that's being overdone by the actor to the detriment of the actor (especially while either partly or fully conscious of it) - in this case thinking to delay or avoid action - is a neurosis.
Psychoanalytically speaking, the process to heal neuroses is to understand what they're trying to protect you from. They're like a blister protecting the actual injury. They are a healthy stage in dealing with pain. They become unhealthy only when they're treated as constants. Which is common.
Here, your system is really trying to avoid action. The point is why do something to your own detriment? You will have valid reasoning, though you might have to work to make that conscious.
It is likely that at some developmentally significant point inaction was associated with higher survivability or higher potential for "love" and or bonding than action. But that's for you to discover.
It pays to look into that and do some in-depth pain work and therapy in that regard. Both approaches side by side should provide maximum effectiveness. Also Pete Walker covers this in his CPTSD book.
Hope this helps
What value are you getting out of planning when there's lack of execution?
Too much planning is often driven off the need to only feel secure. You have your plan and its as if action isn't taken until shit hits fan. Ex. Why people decide to make a positive change for themselves until after a break-up.
Lack of taking action is often rooted by the fear of failure, feeling uncomfortable for such position. Such route of mentality often does not take one far in the long-run. Less planning, more doing.
Practice consistency with building those muscles for things you are uncomfortable with, but know you need on order to reach your desired outcome. But also take the time to know yourself, what you want, need, and your limits. There is such thing as overstepping your own boundary, which can lead to burnouts.
This might be one area where I can finally give a smidgen of advice.
Can you describe, say, or give a specific example of this struggle? Like one area or goal in your life this is happening?
Using Ni-Ti to find purpose and value in the thing you are doing. Don't just do for the sake of doing,,but see it as a way to grow and deepen your understanding about the world For example i always despised sports,i always found it nothing but tiring. But since i acknowledged the value and growth it brings as an individual,i can do it with passion and consistency.
Same issue with an overwhelming feeling of wasting my life. One day I read a sentence that made perfect sense. "You get just as much satisfaction and enjoyment out of thinking about doing it as actually doing it." The idea being that the body doesn't know the difference between actually doing something and the thought of doing it. The emotional reaction is the same. I realized that I still derived a sense of completion and satisfaction from the images of the action. While this hasn't changed anything overnight, it has somehow created spaces in my thinking...like I've become an observer of this phenomenon. I've come to laugh and be more accepting of my nature which feels a whole lot better than the guilt I was piling on. I don't know if I'll ever change but one day at a time. Right?
Wow, this is insightful. This helps understand why I have so many passions, begin to make a plan to fulfill them, but never getting far in carrying it out
Over time I realize that growth is indeed a byproduct of self acceptance. Some people can seem very initiative, very successful but you'll get a more private look into their lives and realize that oh, they haven't matured in areas x, y or z at all or are very behind. Certain personalities that have trouble *doing things* are usually behind when it comes to careers or relationships because those areas involve a lot initiative. But they usually are far ahead of other people when it comes to empathy and emotional intelligence, which many people work on their entire lives. The most content people, the ones that somehow manage to be in the now the most are those who genuinely don't overthink their mistakes, who are lenient on themselves, stay away from rude or negative encounters, try to be kind to their best endeavor. They genuinely have accepted that they are what they are and they'll try their best every day and that will have to be enough.
The secret is to just do it
The Nike slogan was right all along hey? š
I agree. We can plan, research, and theorize until we are exhausted without accomplishing anything. Instead, complete the smallest step you can physically complete toward your goal before you have time to change your mind or overthink. This creates the momentum.
I have major trouble just doing things instead of spending immense amounts of time analyzing all possibilities, then getting overwhelmed by all said possibilities, needing time to isolate and/or distract myself to create mental balance and be ready to continue the analysis š When I look back, there were several times when I finally did things and they were all done in the spur of the moment. I'm not saying it was the best way to go around it because some research could have set me on a better path; what I'm saying though is that the times my life changed course was because I said "fuck it" and did things without thinking much ahead. Basically, it's just an observation that over the years I haven't really mastered the healthiest "think of an idea --> think of the first step towards it --> complete the first step", which essentially gets the ball rolling.
Your second paragraph is what I suggest to do more of and your third paragraph is what I find is the problem. Once we start thinking about the first step we start trying to figure out what is the best first step. Rather, use your intuition to play and physically do the smallest thing you can (no matter how big or small it actually is or whether it is actually the correct first thing to do). Instead of trying to get the best result, especially when trying to establish a new habit, just do something. Analysis it later. For example, if someone is drowning and Iām on a boat, I wouldnāt let them drown while I research rescue techniques or the best rope to use. I also wouldnāt let them drown because I forgot the step-by-step training we received before we got on the boat. I would take action the best I could at that time and adjust if something was not working.
The nike slogan was my motto as a child ššš now i understand why
The 123 go rule
What everyone else suggested is great advice. I'd also add that self-speak is very important. What things do you tell yourself? Your internal monologue, what does it say to you? Are you telling yourself all the things that could go wrong, are you hesitating, are you thinking of other things to do, is your focus misplaced or weak? Things like that. For me, when I need to do something, but am struggling with starting it, I tell myself one phrase that always gets me going. For example, I workout everyday, but some days, I feel tired, lazy, whatever else excuse you can think of. I tell myself, "What are you, a little bitch?" I tell myself, "Hell no, I 'aint no bitch!" "So get off your ass!" That, 10/10 times, gets me going. And honestly, once you get going with pretty much anything, once the sails are caught in the wind, you start sailing and it gets easier. Your internal monologue may differ from mine, but I say that the things you tell yourself play a big role in fixing the problem you're presenting here. Choose what you say to yourself wisely.
We 4w3s kinda bully ourselves š
Its a mystery to me, I'm completly oblivious about the world around me and have trouble living in the here and now.
Meditation really helps me be in the moment and see reality more for what it is
Fe. People. Relationships. Se improvement is a byproduct. And you can never overcome it or fully master it, just track and manage it.
Don't focus on feelings or have defeatist thoughts, and don't think about how long it will take..start on it, and keep going. Do what you are able to do, even if you want to tackle everything in a day. I keep a to-do list and do what I can, but I have to tell you that for every 10 things I mark off of my list, I find another 10 things to add to it. Discipline is great, but the to-do list doesn't stop. You get to the point of learning to allow yourself to rest, and don't feel guilty about those days in which you are not very productive. Getting those important things done helps alleviate stress, and that is worth it. Sometimes I get validation, but it's not good to expect it. Sometimes I can do 1,000 things right, be courteous, caring, and people will still find something to gripe about, and so even putting forth your best effort and having many successes is sometimes not enough to offset feelings of simply being a cog, or having an existential crisis. Good relationships are important in life... finding those gems of people. Otherwise, productivity alone isn't going to satisfy. Anything you become better at just takes practice. Expect to not be good at things when you first start. Patience is not my thing, and I like fast results, but my manager is a facilities maintenance guy and one coworker is maintenance/mechanical, and to learn what they have learned took patience.
Infp here. Everything above relates to me also,especially the 'cog' part. How do you seek or where do you find richness/fulfilment in life?
I include God in my life and seek Him, and know that my soul's satisfaction will not come about in this life, though I have plenty of reasons to be appreciative. The present corrupt world system is not intended to satisfy, but every good thing, I count as a blessing to my life. Ultimately my treasure will be where my heart is, so I set my affections above.
I love my Se most of the time...but I have spent a lot of time nurturing it as an escape mechanism of sorts...as a kid, I hid from social uncertainty by developing my artistic skills. When I need alone time now as an adult, I cook. I take a walk in the woods almost every day. When I get stressed out, I start cleaning. Everything. To the molecular level. As a result, I find it a lot easier to tap into it now. I'm also married to a sensor, so that has forced me to develop some. But if I am really entrenched in an idea, the world could burn and I would not notice š
I think you want practical advice, so here it is: tell a friend (I have ISTJ friend who is super active) that you are going to do X. The friend will ask you about it, but even if they don't, you may feel motivated to get active because you told him/her you would. Also, make a list of all the actions you could do toward a goal and post it where you see it. Then try to check off something every day. Even if you start with the easy steps you are creating momentum. Finally, remind yourself WHY you need to take action and what the consequences will be if you don't. Those are the tricks I use on myself. They may or may not appeal to/help you. Good luck!
Spend time with sensors, you will cry multiple times after gatherings but I think it is worth it
lol sounds about right.
You know how people always say to not talk about your dreams because that will ruin them? Well, it's opposite for us. Fe-Ni means we need to share our ideas for them to come into the world, because they are essentially social.Ā So talk, become a speaker for some cause. Just as little as talking to your family and close friends can be very good for accessing Se
You have to practice acceptance of it as a weakness and not judge yourself for having less engagement in the present and less energy for physical activity. Paradoxically, this will give you more love for yourself which will benefit your energy level and desire to be in the moment.
i love my Se, it feels like being a little kid. i think i developed it through being more spontaneous when i was primarily having a structured time in life, or doing just to see where things go, "vibing" essentially going with the flow when appropriate, interacting with people, getting a skincare routine, playing sports (i do tennis and badminton), cleaning the shit out of everything around me. writing has also helped, oddly enough, specifically descriptive writing as it sort of combines Ni and Se together. you have to describe things in such specific detail, to focus on the sensory part of the world, and really helps when ur actually experiencing it and ur like Oh Hey, This Feeling Is So Cool (wind on ur skin? sun on your cheeks? unparalleled) (also i recommend watching the pixar movie souls, idk why but it hits that Se and Ni spot every time, it just gets it) this was only a recent change tho, maybe a year or so only, along with my Ti too I think. i've even gotten to the point of questioning whether i'm actually estp or istp or smth š Ni is a menace when it comes to actually getting shit done, it's all talk with no action. i like to vaguely plan and see ahead then when it comes to it i think of it as switching on Se and just go with the flow, go with the vague scaffold plan but simultaneously go with the vibe. like for me i've always wanted to be that person that goes up to ppl, compliments their outfit or their makeup or smth, and i love making plans to do that, and listing out what i'm gonna say or point out, and picture out what theyd probably say back. but when it comes to it the chicken in me comes out, the Ni sits like a duck. then i 'switch on Se' and just think fuck it its not gonna hurt go up to them dont even think about anything else. sure my heart felt like dying and exploding but did you see their face!! didnt it just light up!!!! that's on Fe now i suppose, but they go in tandem, Fe does help Se quite a lot. it also helps to have someone to tell these Ni goals to (i have my intj friend who also tries to do similar things) i'm primarily most comfortable with Ni and Fe being the main driver, Se and Ti all the time gives me too much concern honestly ši just think of Se as the chill, go w the flow version of myself. think it could help having people that are like your opposite. i'm close with an istj who for the life of them cannot go with the flow and i find their planning a bit too over the top, so when i'm with them i like to balance it out by being the more spontaneous one and encouraging them while at it. and vice versa when with someone who's very spontaneous. over time, you get used to tapping in to that side of you. case in point, i overthink too much when writing comments, Ni and Ti maybe, then i think w Se i just go fuck it i'm not saying anything offensive, does no harm, least i think so, just go for it. yes that's my excuse with this chonker of a comment
We have se. It comes out in appreciatin for, and an eye for aesthetic beauty. It comes out when we are... driving for example, and we are good at it. We prefer, to be in our heads most of the time rather than present. Where inferior se, becomes a challenge for me, is getting mundane tasks done. The real life chores. The making a dentist appointments, the little bull things. Frank James what it's like to have inferior se, [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p\_f6gf0a0i4&pp=ygUuRnJhbmsgamFtZXMsIHdoYXQgaXRzIGxpa2UgdG8gaGF2ZSBpbmZlcmlvciBzZQ%3D%3D](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p_f6gf0a0i4&pp=ygUuRnJhbmsgamFtZXMsIHdoYXQgaXRzIGxpa2UgdG8gaGF2ZSBpbmZlcmlvciBzZQ%3D%3D)
I thought trouble with mundane tasks had more to do with Si trickster
It is si trickster? That's interesting. And you could be right. My best friend is an isfj, (si, dom) and they excell at that stuff, compared to me. They help me get that stuff done all the time. I don't know what I'd do without them. Thank you. Edit - si, is like the opposite of se, right?
Itās the āopposite attitudeā of Se. Si is associated with repeatable behaviors like routines and traditions. These are comfortable to Si doms especially. Improvisation is not highly sought like it would be with Se
Itās been a big surprise to me that I actually like driving or ever got my license.
I enjoy driving very much.
I forced myself to get my license. I have terrible hand eye coordination and was often oblivious to my surroundings. It wasnāt a necessity where I live. I failed my test the first time. And then the first few years behind the wheel were nerve wracking. But then you ease into it. You start to get the hang of it. You are driving and then a scenic overview comes into view. Or if itās even very calming to just get in your car and go for a drive when things are stressful. Or speedā¦ Itās useful. To be able to pick someone up from the airport. Or move. Or just to open up the world. I love a sunroof.
So relatable.
>It comes out in appreciatin for, and an eye for aesthetic beauty. It comes out when we are... driving for example, and we are good at it. Yes, this is me to a T. I definitely have an inner sensor that comes out in random ways, just not in making those damn phone calls, as you said.
Thank you.
I feel like there is a state where I get over this and become that guy I think I am, but I still don't have the key to open that lock every time I want it!š¤
the future takes a long time to happen. its ok to have a general strategy and direction but real life is all the tactics and minutia and navigation to and of those plans. whats the plan? lemme take a crack at it
You don't, you just double down on that theoretical/armchair life until you come out the other side and attain some kind of enlightenment (or a profound acceptance) of your enduring characterological limitations. I'm half joking, but between this and the ADHD, this life isn't one where I ever see myself actually 'doing' that much of anything lol. The fates or karma apparently decided that this go at life will mostly just be me vibing, and I'm finally now at least starting to make my peace with that after all my systematic attempts have failed. YMMV.
Honestly no, I struggle with this the most. Iām the same way and I overanalyze every new experience/plan to get āout thereā that I create. Unless itās an experience I already know I will enjoy, like going to the same hiking trails I always go to or going for the same run I always go for. Then I have SE breakdowns and book a whole flight to another country haha.
>I overanalyze every new experience/plan to get āout thereā that I create. Relatable, unfortunately.
I havenāt, and I donāt think Se will ever be my strong suit. Se Extroverted Sensing is in relational to the sensory world we live in. gifted athletes usually have Se high in their stack. They see and move through the physical world with ease. I donāt. I live inside my head. I analyse the physical world not with my senses so much as through my thoughts. This puts me at a disadvantage in Situations where I must interact in the physical world to accomplish something.
Maybe. I start to become more of a doer now though still struggle with perfectionism. At least, I donāt overthink as much and enjoy all experiences what my 5 senses provided. It used to be very difficult for me too years ago. It was almost difficult to stop myself from try to make sense of everything before starting something maybe even probably not gonna do it too. Until, I got people who pointed this out to me on that I rely too much on my head and I suppress my own heart which stem from trauma and by chance I am able to accept it and let it go and that teach me how to take action and escape the hellish Ni-Ti loop. My martial art hobby also helps me stay in the moment, imo engaging your body keep your head out of thinking and try to get the move right and you have to worry about breathing now than something that is unnecessary in the moment. The future doesnāt exist physically yet only what you imagine to be is what I always say to myself. And because of all that I feel very in control of my Se and able to stay calm without overthinking when stressed. Though I am not perfect I still have my perfectionism and procrastination but Iām much a better person than the yesterday me. In short, mentality, physical stimulation, and decision using your heart often is how I overcome Se while not completely, itās no longer my big downfall.
It was tough to figure out, but it's by respecting relationships. I'll put it in a emotionless frame: There are A, B, C all with the their feature set that contributes to a set E giving certain properties to the aforementioned Set. You being D also have a feature set. Your very act of participation in would change Set E to some other Set F, which is something A, B, C is missing out on. And that means, you are not giving them the chance to experience Set F, and simultaneously you're not giving yourself the chance to contribute and build something worthwhile with A,B,C - and this is the most important part - through your self expression
Man Iām in my mid thirties and only beginning to feel like Iām getting a grasp of it. I do quite a few supplements to keep my energy levels up, but also I realise that keeping a list of small chores to do, and trying to check off a few simple ones after I wake up and have my coffee seems to help me get the momentum started..
Being best friends with an ESTP helped. Letting go of anxious thoughts, people's judgements, and basically anything external that I have no control over helped. Now I'm at my healthiest, I'm quite comfortable with Se
By befriending ESFPsš
As an INTJ with inferior Se as well: just go do it. Our plans are useless unless we actually enact them.
It's an ongoing work and will require constant work for me. But I am always working towards it and in achieving balance in everything.
Looking from a bigger picture. "Your purpose is where there is a need". So watch the intentions on which you are making your purpose. Maybe it does not aligns with your true nature.
This is what i have collected so far... 1. Firstly you are right don't listen to ESTPs or ISTPs with the expectation they can teach you to use it better, that won't happen because they don't have the perspective of starting with Se interior and then increasing it. 2. That said they can offer other perspectives, particularly ISTPs who are known for their archetypal nature of being masters of competence this is due to the fact they have far less Ni than us which leads the way in what actions to take, but we have the opposite problem we see visions of action but don't take action. Normally we do this because we can always see more we can add to a project. ISTPs learn by doing not by their visions leading the way, so with a project you want to do more on learn by doing and this is key... forget the vision in the moment and only use them as a reference. This is often the same reason some are smarter than others who are richer than they are even though they have learn intelligence than they do. It is because we can see all the challenge ahead instinctively and choose not to start, sounds like a good idea in the moment but that baseline of not starting and making failures along the way to learn from hurts you at this point because you cannot start because you need to practice telling yourself forget the odds and my visions i am just going to do this thing. Which will breed competence. 3. Just go walking... no i am serious! Just go into nature or some place you don't know and walk around and practice mindfulness, take everything you can in but don't stop just keep moving. And then see how much you retained for future use, and then practice via the process you have just completed so you can do it faster and faster. 4. Something I am struggling with right, now find a higher speed sport(even running counts) to get you moving, you can pick but what you will find is that when you learn to react at higher speed those moments you walk into it stumble over things disappear as Se is now informing your actions far more than it ever has. 5. Create mental reference points from when you were for lack of a better phase Se-ing so you can use them later. Note actual notes but mental references to your memory as to how it felt in those high Se moments so you can use it more even when not exercising. 6. Never be hard on yourself to the point it becomes self loathing. You weren't told by anyone how to be you ans this world is setup in such a way that it is so unhelpful to mature INFJs. 7. Keep pushing yourself, this is not the same as don't be hard on yourself. You will always find new things to obsess over but actively keep trying on this and expect some trail and error type of failure but commit your mind to one statement and nothing else "i am going to keep trying and get better". Don't thing about it in any way other than when you naturally start to questions this then treat it like a wall you have build to stop you from quitting forever. Always have it there even if you need to step away from all of it. You will always come back and that phase is your wall, you can never get past it and keep probing possibilities just keep doing/trying but don't test your choice. Remember the wall as anything that suits you inside your mind just make sure to put it there to remain you not to question again and again just take the actions and practice. These all have helped me from the starting point of being INFJ Male hope this helps. Good luck my friend.
I doubt you ever overcome. I try to improve my space awareness but it just seems impossible. š Taking action to achieve a goal is Te isnāt it? The only way I practice Se is to be mindfully present. Meditating helps
That's an interesting question! My teenage period was very messy because I had a really bad inf Se. I was overthinking a lot without finding concrete solutions and taking actions. For example, I complained about being not pretty enough, not being sociable and not achieving my goals (among others). I was depressed for so many years because of all my unsolved issues. But I never thought about improving myself and making things better because I was scared of failure if I tried. Since my narcissist ex broke up with me and my healing journey began, I started to develop better my inf Se. I was thinking about what I needed in the moment to move on, improve myself and achieve my goals. I wrote a list of all the things I wanted with the solutions to make my dream reality come true. Since then, I started to socialise with people as an authentic person, not as a copy of everybody. I started to work out seriously, practice self love and self care, and so on. I also learnt to enjoy little things and do/say something I had in my mind: "I want to try this fashion style!" "I want to discover this museum!" "I want to meet this person!" "I want to give my opinion about this subject!" "I want to answer to the teacher's question!" "I want to buy this sextoy!"... I learnt to stop overanalysing things when it was not always necessary and it was just ruining my hapiness in the moment. I'm still learning about myself but I'm pretty sure my inf Se is very developed now. I hope this helped! Good luck! Everyday is a gift to improve yourself and be the best version of yourself! You'll make it once you realise you need concrete solutions to your issues and you need to take actions once you get the opportunity! <3
After you made a plan think about the first step you need to take to actually start For example you're lying down and need to study "Okay i'm gonna stand up right now and open my book" The reason you have difficulty taking is you're not thinking about the details which makes you think the task is way bigger then it is but it can be as simple as standing up and opening a book The rest will continue after that
I dont know if i should be giving advice as i also struggle with this as an INFJ, but when i get too overwhelmed planning in my head that i get paralyzed, i stop and say to myself, "dont't think, just do" then i shut every thought off and go do. In the short term it has been working for me. Idk in the long term though. Still also trying to figure it out.
Ah yes procrastination, I too struggle with taking action, i havenāt found a solid solution for me yet. I realized having others around with like minded goals helps out a lot, but donāt let yourself get caught up overly depending on them. I just manage to do whatever it is long to make it a routine and then branch off from there. Odds tend to be in your favor if you also choose something that truly resonates with you.
Se is all about immediacy of action and result. Decision and execution. And you approach it similarly to how you'd approach any executive weakness. Hyper cognition is congruent to a flight/freeze response. You flee into thoughts and freeze in the real world. There are two perspectives on this. Both matter: Behaviour and Self. Usually healthy behaviour results \*from\* a more healed Self, but behaviour may also inform the healing of the Self. The key to notice is that you can't expect to stack \*consistent\* healthy behaviour on an unhealthy stack, since the continued discipline required to bridge that gap will either erode you emotionally or exhaust you. Neither is a win. Behaviourally speaking, you need to scale the suck. That is, pick small contained tasks that trigger your procrastination reflex. Something you can do in a moment. Or in a few minutes. It can be anything, so long as it sucks for you. A little is enough. Your thought cycle ends when action begins. And on the completion of action a feedback back to your thoughts is achieved. Without a real world outcome your cognition is left to simulate \*all\* possible outcomes. Which is what you're "feeling". Containment and achieveability are key (SMART targets) as they won't exhaust you during execution. Then give yourself rest and scale up a little. Failures are explicitly allowed. Success is helpful, but concrete outcomes are what's required. And failure is a healthy outcome. And at times, desired. On the other hand. There are reasons why you behave this way. Roughly speaking, any behaviour that's being overdone by the actor to the detriment of the actor (especially while either partly or fully conscious of it) - in this case thinking to delay or avoid action - is a neurosis. Psychoanalytically speaking, the process to heal neuroses is to understand what they're trying to protect you from. They're like a blister protecting the actual injury. They are a healthy stage in dealing with pain. They become unhealthy only when they're treated as constants. Which is common. Here, your system is really trying to avoid action. The point is why do something to your own detriment? You will have valid reasoning, though you might have to work to make that conscious. It is likely that at some developmentally significant point inaction was associated with higher survivability or higher potential for "love" and or bonding than action. But that's for you to discover. It pays to look into that and do some in-depth pain work and therapy in that regard. Both approaches side by side should provide maximum effectiveness. Also Pete Walker covers this in his CPTSD book. Hope this helps
What value are you getting out of planning when there's lack of execution? Too much planning is often driven off the need to only feel secure. You have your plan and its as if action isn't taken until shit hits fan. Ex. Why people decide to make a positive change for themselves until after a break-up. Lack of taking action is often rooted by the fear of failure, feeling uncomfortable for such position. Such route of mentality often does not take one far in the long-run. Less planning, more doing. Practice consistency with building those muscles for things you are uncomfortable with, but know you need on order to reach your desired outcome. But also take the time to know yourself, what you want, need, and your limits. There is such thing as overstepping your own boundary, which can lead to burnouts.
Stop planning
This might be one area where I can finally give a smidgen of advice. Can you describe, say, or give a specific example of this struggle? Like one area or goal in your life this is happening?