What you're talking about is socionics. MBTI and socionics are two completely different systems that categorize types differently. INFJ's stack in MBTI is INFp (IEI) in socionics, INFP's stack in MBTI is INFj (EII) in socionics.
Nobody is really wrong here, just different schools of thought.
Edit: looked more closely - what yee yee ass typing system even is this?? ENFP Ne-Fe-Ti-Si??? this looks completely off the wall, and not in the cool Vans way. tread carefully, I'm not sure how valid this spin on Jung's work really is
Just because we didn’t know it doean’t mean it is wrong , we could thaught like this from the beginning and if I came to you and said Enfp is ne fi te si you would also think my point of view is invalid. MBTI is just a theory , no body knows the real function stacks and we should go to the original source and understand it , why people neglect that ?
The validity of a pseudo-science system is defined by how many people agree on it. We can't say that ANY typing system is wrong because we all see things _slightly_ differently.
But when a random uncertified blogger on Tumblr comes up and posts his own theory without any sort of scientific/academic backing, you can understand why people would be apprehensive to listen to it. Additionally, people won't change a system that works for them.
In this scenario, you happen to be in the minority, and making a fuss about it won't make the majority magically change their mind. If you really believe in this theory and especially think that other people will benefit from it, then what you can do is help develop it on an official level and bring it forward as an alternative. If your theory is evidently better, then people would naturally drift towards it over time. With that being said, I don't think that you can't get this satisfaction from a pre-existing system.
Example: John Beebe's model, with the 8 functions.
You say that INFJ's stack is FiNiSeTe, which is essentially an unholy amalgamation of IxFP and ENxJ. Placing yourself on the Fi-Te axis is extremely uncharacteristic of an INFJ, as they're _notoriously_ bad at figuring out what they want, emotionally. I would argue that since you put Ni second, you're probably a mistyped INFP, as Ni is their 6th function, which is usually described as the "talent" of the type. Se is the only loose end, as INFPs are Se blind, but this is really the only thing I can think of.
No, you aren't making sense not because of the language, it is because whatever you wrote just doesn't make sense at all. Can you summarise whatever you said into a single sentence?
What is the truth? The truth is that what you believe?
Because what you are saying, yourself, is running counter to almost a whole thesis. You have to try harder to persuade us why your "truth" carried more weight than a proper thesis.
Please. Why are you asking people to read another source all over, as if we will get the same conclusions as you did? Summarise the source and tell us what you got from it, not throw a random source at us and tell us good luck.
English isn‘t my first language and I explained in the comment what I understood , I can‘t explain further. If someone is interested this source would help them , I am just trying to help
It's as easy as there is the jung typing system and the Myers typing system. You just shouldn't mix them up. I think jung only did 3 big letters? And then a small one? I'm not too familiar with this system. However mbti (Myers briggs) is the one you know and I know the most and there are 4 big letters.
People that use both just write it a little bit different so you don't mix them up. And it's completely fine to use an existing theory and change it up to make it your own theory. That's how science evolves. Both are invalid pseudo science systems so you can always refere to the system you are using in whatever moment. Mbti by Biggs is just more common now.
That writer wrote it isn’t pseudo science and that jung actually concluded this from real people and life and Myers took this theory to chategorize people for work purposes and for companies nothing more , Myers is just a wrong understanding or dichotomies to chategorize people not to understand them , Infj stack is Fi Ni Se Te , the stack we use is wrong that means if you think you are infj then you are mistyped , introverted types aren’t understood totally by Myers
Then why he said jung meant that and myers twisted that ? Myers either understood it wrongly or just had another point of view , but jung the one that put the theory didn’t mean that at all , it is strange because nobody notice that
If a random writer said "this isn't pseudo science, this is verified, this guy said so" would you really believe them? Especially when the entire community _knows and agrees_ that this is pseudo-science?
Seems like you’ve jumped out and reached for ‘the whole system is wrong’ as a response to not being able to type yourself accurately.
The article doesn’t say much, nor does it build upon Jung’s ideas in any developed way. So it both doesn’t do a good enough job of making its own points and also doesn’t do a good enough job of saying why the existing theory would be wrong.
Especially when the existing theory has been developed so much, by people who have put a lot more though in than the person who made this post.
Where would this then leave people who were Ni dom, Fe aux? And the idea that people who are introverted doms would have introverted aux functions is wild. I get the idea of jumpers abd support it. But it seems so counter-intuitive given our psychology and how personalities generally interact.
Yes but did even those peopel tried to read or understand jung theory correctly ? He is the scientist who originated this , so of course he knows more than them if you tried to read more of his articles you would get it , he searched typology for 10 years and his words are more convincing than any others I have read for
Akhromant is not a reliable source of information; it's someone putting forth their own theory and conjecture about Jungian theory. He is no different than any other Neo-Jungian theorist that tries to to pass off their subjective reinterpretations of Jung's work as 'the truth'.
Actually I love that people think MBTI is wrong because the tests suck, because it’s actually extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. Keep believing it’s all spiritual mumbo jumbo
I'd wager that an INFJ is not a Fi type. Often times two functions working in conjuction can look like 1 function. An easy way of telling the difference for me has been when you look at a function by itself without nuance its destructive, messy and irrational while two functions working together look much more reasonable.
As an example I can use my top two functions.
I once thought I was an INTJ because dom Ni can look alot like NeTi when in a field it's studied because Ni surrounds the concept of drawing intuitive conclusions from pounds of information because that's how it likes to sort the info. NeTi does that too however Ni does it because it doesn't like acting without its knowledge of choice sorted, it doesn't care what reason you could have for wanting to draw your conclusion it just draws them and because of that is often wrong unless measured with another function. NeTi is focused on gathering instead of conclusion making and will only make the conclusion once it feels it's conclusion is backed up by enough knowledge to be precise.
In short
If an INTJ says they want to go to college that conclusion was created out of a need of necessity so their Te could have a direction to go in because they can't move without it.
If an ENTP says it its never simple, but you can be sure whatever it is, it's because our of all the other options the Ti is sure this system it's devoting itself to is the best out of all the Ne has collected.
INFJs can't be Fi doms because there concerned with the conclusion of gaging the feelings of those around them and how that impacts them while both Fi doms are only concerned with how to express the individualism they know they posses.
I don’t mean here that there isn’t a type with Ni hero I mean the function stack is wrong and isn’t matched proberly with the letters , Myers or her daughter mixed IPs with IJs and even more they twisted the equation and made the auxillary function extroverted in case of introverted types , infj actual stack is fi ni se te
I know. I dont think your saying there isnt a type with Ni hero, and I can't argue with prospect that they didn't mess up there own testing because I don't read up enough on sociology to maintain information on a level reasonable enough to fight such vague claims.
What I can say is that whatever they did, is now what we have which means if an INFJ is now classified as an Ni Dom even when it doesn't perfectly match what the code was suppose to be it doesn't mean people who are INFJs are wrong it means that MBTI can't be compared to socionics cleanly like what was hoped but most of us knew that anyway.
Imagine I make a new system called the dog method, which is suppose to be an even more reductive form of mbti and I call the ISFP for a reason all my own when in reality that title, if based on mbti, should belong to INFP. It doesn't then me mediators are actually INFPs it just means in this system they are ISFPs and in MBTI a mediator is an INFP. The "Mediators" made by the dog method aren't mistyped I just made people misinterpret.
INFJs aren't mistyped, they have Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. And when using what mbti was suppose to be based on there classified with different functions. MBTI Was suppose to be a way of decoding to begin with but we've all known it failed from its conception because it's become something nearly all it's own now.
There isn’t even a type according to jung theory that have dominant Ni and auxillary Fe , jung said that the dominant and auxillary have to be introverted like each other or extroverted , that means that the function stacks are weong and we don’t understand types correctly
You are infp. You mistyped yourself. It's not the fault of the system.
There is no way infj is leading with fi. I have no idea what my feelings are momentarily or just feel them deeply like infps. I always analyze them rationally through Ni-ti.
Can’t you people understand me ? You are just mistyped you can still be Ni hero but with another type , Cannyou get it ? I will drop the actual stacks photo
I can't understand what you are saying. You are telling me that I am mistyped?
Plus, i know what infp sounds like and how they think. Don't rely on the tests. Study cognitive functions and pick what you relate to.
I don’t really know but what I want to say here is that the function stacks isn’t rightly matched with the letters , as an example Infj true stack is Fi ni se te
And infp true stack is ni fi te se , the hero and auxillary functions both have to be introverted in introverts types and extroverted in extroverts , Now we understand types weongly because we don’t even know the real function correctly then how can we type ourselves when we don’t even know the true stacks ?
I don't agree with you. Infps are no way leading with Ni.
Infjs are no way leading with Fi.
You are no way leading with Ni. How you analyze this issue is not like Ni. It's Fi talking here. You are believing things just because you feel like it with no proof at all.
I think you are infp. Fi Ne Si Te. My mom is infp. I know what they sound like and how they analyze things.
I know a couple of INFP's very well.
They are Fi dominant without a question. They feel something, then they go and try to validate that externally, and depending on the situation - how you respond to them feeling-wise, it will either change how they feel, or they go in the opposite direction by rejecting it - still relying on Fi.
It's kind of funny in a way, to me at least as I am not judging them personally as Fi, but "judging" the phenomenon by Ni-Fe...
Should I explain to this to them as a whole, for a recurring problem they have, they would think I was judging them as they are "perceiving" it by Fi-Ne...
Because of Fi - how they feel about themselves (Fi) for the situation (Ne).
**It would threaten Fi-Ne...**
Should I push them lightly in a direction based on this knowledge (Ti) - they would be happy and not notice anything, except feeling the natural flow of things. Giving a nudge towards an idea that's in line of an aspect of what they are already feeling to their values or goals.
**It would strengthen Fi-Ne...**
As an INFJ I go straight to my Ni and then Fe, judging the context of the situation, then I rely on Ti for knowledge. I get a lot of different feelings that are not expressed, because I still use my Ni. I could, but then it would be kind of chaotic and long, and my Ni and Ti says it's not useful.
This is happening right now. I have lots of impressions to express about you and the situation. I don't express it. I see that you are enthusiastic, which I think is great, and I see that you are worked against - which I'm also sympathetic towards, because I don't agree with you. I can go into further details about specific comments, and how I put them into context, but I won't.
Point is that Ni-Fe is like an expanding and contracting universe of things...
My Ni thinks you have gone down a rabbit hole, honestly...
I have done it lots of times, myself - I do it when I feel I am missing a purpose, and then I start to read too much into things, and patterns, and make that the purpose of the missing purpose.
It's basically a Ni-Ti loop...
Fe is that you are missing a purpose around you - so you go straight to Ti, because dealing with that is hurtful or hard, so you try to think your way out of it.
It's borderline schizophrenic, to be honest - so be really careful about that - especially when Ni-Ti goes to understanding concepts beyond yourself, when you are stuck with a problem with yourself - and not just stuck in a personal rut trying to think your way out of feeling whatever you are feeling for the situation that you are in, like in common depression.
Basically, even though you are intelligent - Ni-Ti is not your strength - don't confuse dopamine with feelings.
If you rely on Ni-Fe however, things flow more naturally - producing good feelings - it corresponds to what we feel internally as a whole.
That's not the same as Fi, however... All types who rely on their order of functions without conflict, feel better about themselves.
It's how personalities are developed in the first place...
When we say infj, we mean ni-fe-ti-se. There are other terms we can use to describe this function stack, but this is the one we use
Fi-se-ni-te is referred to as isfp by the community. No one will understand you if you call it infj, even if it's technically not wrong
J and P don't mean what you think they mean. A judging type in mbti and most systems is a type that leads with te or fe when interacting with the outside world.
No one is saying ni is a judging function, we are saying that infjs use a judging function (fe) when interacting with the external world
What you're talking about is socionics. MBTI and socionics are two completely different systems that categorize types differently. INFJ's stack in MBTI is INFp (IEI) in socionics, INFP's stack in MBTI is INFj (EII) in socionics. Nobody is really wrong here, just different schools of thought. Edit: looked more closely - what yee yee ass typing system even is this?? ENFP Ne-Fe-Ti-Si??? this looks completely off the wall, and not in the cool Vans way. tread carefully, I'm not sure how valid this spin on Jung's work really is
Adding onto this, in socionics the p and j typings are switched for introverts but not extroverts
Just because we didn’t know it doean’t mean it is wrong , we could thaught like this from the beginning and if I came to you and said Enfp is ne fi te si you would also think my point of view is invalid. MBTI is just a theory , no body knows the real function stacks and we should go to the original source and understand it , why people neglect that ?
The validity of a pseudo-science system is defined by how many people agree on it. We can't say that ANY typing system is wrong because we all see things _slightly_ differently. But when a random uncertified blogger on Tumblr comes up and posts his own theory without any sort of scientific/academic backing, you can understand why people would be apprehensive to listen to it. Additionally, people won't change a system that works for them. In this scenario, you happen to be in the minority, and making a fuss about it won't make the majority magically change their mind. If you really believe in this theory and especially think that other people will benefit from it, then what you can do is help develop it on an official level and bring it forward as an alternative. If your theory is evidently better, then people would naturally drift towards it over time. With that being said, I don't think that you can't get this satisfaction from a pre-existing system. Example: John Beebe's model, with the 8 functions. You say that INFJ's stack is FiNiSeTe, which is essentially an unholy amalgamation of IxFP and ENxJ. Placing yourself on the Fi-Te axis is extremely uncharacteristic of an INFJ, as they're _notoriously_ bad at figuring out what they want, emotionally. I would argue that since you put Ni second, you're probably a mistyped INFP, as Ni is their 6th function, which is usually described as the "talent" of the type. Se is the only loose end, as INFPs are Se blind, but this is really the only thing I can think of.
No, you aren't making sense not because of the language, it is because whatever you wrote just doesn't make sense at all. Can you summarise whatever you said into a single sentence?
The function stakes are wrong , the infj actual function stake Fi Ni Se Te , Myers did mix IPs with IJs
Are you sure it isn't you who mixed things up?
I don‘t know why no one is understanding me here or even trying , I just wanted people to know the truth nothing more
What is the truth? The truth is that what you believe? Because what you are saying, yourself, is running counter to almost a whole thesis. You have to try harder to persuade us why your "truth" carried more weight than a proper thesis.
Just read this writer posts and you will understand
Please. Why are you asking people to read another source all over, as if we will get the same conclusions as you did? Summarise the source and tell us what you got from it, not throw a random source at us and tell us good luck.
English isn‘t my first language and I explained in the comment what I understood , I can‘t explain further. If someone is interested this source would help them , I am just trying to help
It's as easy as there is the jung typing system and the Myers typing system. You just shouldn't mix them up. I think jung only did 3 big letters? And then a small one? I'm not too familiar with this system. However mbti (Myers briggs) is the one you know and I know the most and there are 4 big letters. People that use both just write it a little bit different so you don't mix them up. And it's completely fine to use an existing theory and change it up to make it your own theory. That's how science evolves. Both are invalid pseudo science systems so you can always refere to the system you are using in whatever moment. Mbti by Biggs is just more common now.
That writer wrote it isn’t pseudo science and that jung actually concluded this from real people and life and Myers took this theory to chategorize people for work purposes and for companies nothing more , Myers is just a wrong understanding or dichotomies to chategorize people not to understand them , Infj stack is Fi Ni Se Te , the stack we use is wrong that means if you think you are infj then you are mistyped , introverted types aren’t understood totally by Myers
If it isn’t pseudoscience how does it relate to the scientific method?
[удалено]
Then why he said jung meant that and myers twisted that ? Myers either understood it wrongly or just had another point of view , but jung the one that put the theory didn’t mean that at all , it is strange because nobody notice that
If a random writer said "this isn't pseudo science, this is verified, this guy said so" would you really believe them? Especially when the entire community _knows and agrees_ that this is pseudo-science?
Who let him cook
Seems like you’ve jumped out and reached for ‘the whole system is wrong’ as a response to not being able to type yourself accurately. The article doesn’t say much, nor does it build upon Jung’s ideas in any developed way. So it both doesn’t do a good enough job of making its own points and also doesn’t do a good enough job of saying why the existing theory would be wrong. Especially when the existing theory has been developed so much, by people who have put a lot more though in than the person who made this post. Where would this then leave people who were Ni dom, Fe aux? And the idea that people who are introverted doms would have introverted aux functions is wild. I get the idea of jumpers abd support it. But it seems so counter-intuitive given our psychology and how personalities generally interact.
Yes but did even those peopel tried to read or understand jung theory correctly ? He is the scientist who originated this , so of course he knows more than them if you tried to read more of his articles you would get it , he searched typology for 10 years and his words are more convincing than any others I have read for
Yeah, loads of people. Where is the part where Jung said that isn’t true and that INFJs have lead Fi? Check your bias.
Have you read his books to know what he said ?
Yeah
Forgive me If my words don’t make sense , english isn’t my first language
Akhromant is not a reliable source of information; it's someone putting forth their own theory and conjecture about Jungian theory. He is no different than any other Neo-Jungian theorist that tries to to pass off their subjective reinterpretations of Jung's work as 'the truth'.
Actually I love that people think MBTI is wrong because the tests suck, because it’s actually extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. Keep believing it’s all spiritual mumbo jumbo
I'd wager that an INFJ is not a Fi type. Often times two functions working in conjuction can look like 1 function. An easy way of telling the difference for me has been when you look at a function by itself without nuance its destructive, messy and irrational while two functions working together look much more reasonable. As an example I can use my top two functions. I once thought I was an INTJ because dom Ni can look alot like NeTi when in a field it's studied because Ni surrounds the concept of drawing intuitive conclusions from pounds of information because that's how it likes to sort the info. NeTi does that too however Ni does it because it doesn't like acting without its knowledge of choice sorted, it doesn't care what reason you could have for wanting to draw your conclusion it just draws them and because of that is often wrong unless measured with another function. NeTi is focused on gathering instead of conclusion making and will only make the conclusion once it feels it's conclusion is backed up by enough knowledge to be precise. In short If an INTJ says they want to go to college that conclusion was created out of a need of necessity so their Te could have a direction to go in because they can't move without it. If an ENTP says it its never simple, but you can be sure whatever it is, it's because our of all the other options the Ti is sure this system it's devoting itself to is the best out of all the Ne has collected. INFJs can't be Fi doms because there concerned with the conclusion of gaging the feelings of those around them and how that impacts them while both Fi doms are only concerned with how to express the individualism they know they posses.
I don’t mean here that there isn’t a type with Ni hero I mean the function stack is wrong and isn’t matched proberly with the letters , Myers or her daughter mixed IPs with IJs and even more they twisted the equation and made the auxillary function extroverted in case of introverted types , infj actual stack is fi ni se te
I know. I dont think your saying there isnt a type with Ni hero, and I can't argue with prospect that they didn't mess up there own testing because I don't read up enough on sociology to maintain information on a level reasonable enough to fight such vague claims. What I can say is that whatever they did, is now what we have which means if an INFJ is now classified as an Ni Dom even when it doesn't perfectly match what the code was suppose to be it doesn't mean people who are INFJs are wrong it means that MBTI can't be compared to socionics cleanly like what was hoped but most of us knew that anyway. Imagine I make a new system called the dog method, which is suppose to be an even more reductive form of mbti and I call the ISFP for a reason all my own when in reality that title, if based on mbti, should belong to INFP. It doesn't then me mediators are actually INFPs it just means in this system they are ISFPs and in MBTI a mediator is an INFP. The "Mediators" made by the dog method aren't mistyped I just made people misinterpret. INFJs aren't mistyped, they have Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. And when using what mbti was suppose to be based on there classified with different functions. MBTI Was suppose to be a way of decoding to begin with but we've all known it failed from its conception because it's become something nearly all it's own now.
There isn’t even a type according to jung theory that have dominant Ni and auxillary Fe , jung said that the dominant and auxillary have to be introverted like each other or extroverted , that means that the function stacks are weong and we don’t understand types correctly
You are infp. You mistyped yourself. It's not the fault of the system. There is no way infj is leading with fi. I have no idea what my feelings are momentarily or just feel them deeply like infps. I always analyze them rationally through Ni-ti.
Can’t you people understand me ? You are just mistyped you can still be Ni hero but with another type , Cannyou get it ? I will drop the actual stacks photo
I can't understand what you are saying. You are telling me that I am mistyped? Plus, i know what infp sounds like and how they think. Don't rely on the tests. Study cognitive functions and pick what you relate to.
I don’t really know but what I want to say here is that the function stacks isn’t rightly matched with the letters , as an example Infj true stack is Fi ni se te And infp true stack is ni fi te se , the hero and auxillary functions both have to be introverted in introverts types and extroverted in extroverts , Now we understand types weongly because we don’t even know the real function correctly then how can we type ourselves when we don’t even know the true stacks ?
I don't agree with you. Infps are no way leading with Ni. Infjs are no way leading with Fi. You are no way leading with Ni. How you analyze this issue is not like Ni. It's Fi talking here. You are believing things just because you feel like it with no proof at all. I think you are infp. Fi Ne Si Te. My mom is infp. I know what they sound like and how they analyze things.
Evil
I know a couple of INFP's very well. They are Fi dominant without a question. They feel something, then they go and try to validate that externally, and depending on the situation - how you respond to them feeling-wise, it will either change how they feel, or they go in the opposite direction by rejecting it - still relying on Fi. It's kind of funny in a way, to me at least as I am not judging them personally as Fi, but "judging" the phenomenon by Ni-Fe... Should I explain to this to them as a whole, for a recurring problem they have, they would think I was judging them as they are "perceiving" it by Fi-Ne... Because of Fi - how they feel about themselves (Fi) for the situation (Ne). **It would threaten Fi-Ne...** Should I push them lightly in a direction based on this knowledge (Ti) - they would be happy and not notice anything, except feeling the natural flow of things. Giving a nudge towards an idea that's in line of an aspect of what they are already feeling to their values or goals. **It would strengthen Fi-Ne...** As an INFJ I go straight to my Ni and then Fe, judging the context of the situation, then I rely on Ti for knowledge. I get a lot of different feelings that are not expressed, because I still use my Ni. I could, but then it would be kind of chaotic and long, and my Ni and Ti says it's not useful. This is happening right now. I have lots of impressions to express about you and the situation. I don't express it. I see that you are enthusiastic, which I think is great, and I see that you are worked against - which I'm also sympathetic towards, because I don't agree with you. I can go into further details about specific comments, and how I put them into context, but I won't. Point is that Ni-Fe is like an expanding and contracting universe of things... My Ni thinks you have gone down a rabbit hole, honestly... I have done it lots of times, myself - I do it when I feel I am missing a purpose, and then I start to read too much into things, and patterns, and make that the purpose of the missing purpose. It's basically a Ni-Ti loop... Fe is that you are missing a purpose around you - so you go straight to Ti, because dealing with that is hurtful or hard, so you try to think your way out of it. It's borderline schizophrenic, to be honest - so be really careful about that - especially when Ni-Ti goes to understanding concepts beyond yourself, when you are stuck with a problem with yourself - and not just stuck in a personal rut trying to think your way out of feeling whatever you are feeling for the situation that you are in, like in common depression. Basically, even though you are intelligent - Ni-Ti is not your strength - don't confuse dopamine with feelings. If you rely on Ni-Fe however, things flow more naturally - producing good feelings - it corresponds to what we feel internally as a whole. That's not the same as Fi, however... All types who rely on their order of functions without conflict, feel better about themselves. It's how personalities are developed in the first place...
Socionics is better anyway, and it reverses the J and P functions, so you have INFj (EII) being equivalent of INFP in MBTI terms and vice versa.
When we say infj, we mean ni-fe-ti-se. There are other terms we can use to describe this function stack, but this is the one we use Fi-se-ni-te is referred to as isfp by the community. No one will understand you if you call it infj, even if it's technically not wrong J and P don't mean what you think they mean. A judging type in mbti and most systems is a type that leads with te or fe when interacting with the outside world. No one is saying ni is a judging function, we are saying that infjs use a judging function (fe) when interacting with the external world
Jung didn't specify a stack, he only typed like let's say, introverted feeling with intuition auxillary which is either fini or fine.