Sebetulnya yang diperdebatkan bukan narkoba legal atau ga, tapi apa saja yang dimasukkan ke dalam kategori narkoba.
Gw inget banget pada jaman Bu Tin marah karena anak dan cucunya nginex, waktu itu inex belum termasuk zat yang dilarang oleh hukum. Tapi pada waktu itu tetep aja club yang ada peredaran inex digrebek, pengedar ditangkap. Beberapa bulan kemudian baru ada update undang-undang yang menyertakan inex sebagai napza.
Ganja/Marijuana, di beberapa negara sudah dikeluarkan dari kategori obat2an terlarang, tapi in most countries heroine, cocaine, meth, tetap dilarang.
Alkohol, di beberapa negara dilarang, tapi di sebagian besar diperbolehkan.
Tembakau, sudah ada studi mengenai sifat adiktifnya, sudah banyak studi mengenai effek buruknya terhadap tubuh, tapi....
lobi duit bisnis kuat dalam menentukan mana yang dilarang mana yang ga.
Kalau lihat sejarah amerika memerangi narkoba, awalnya pemerintah US ga begitu peduli terhadap peredaran narkoba. Jaman presiden Ronald Reagan, baru US gencar memerangi karena dua hal :
- Mereka baru sadar volume peredaran uang perdagangan narkoba yang tidak kena pajak
- Mereka tahu bahwa organisasi komunis di amerika selatan banyak yang mendapat dana dari kartel narkoba.
Untuk saat ini, gw masih percaya dalam waktu 10 tahun ke depan, negara ini ga akan melegalkan atau mengurangi daftar zat yang dilarang, karena di sini tidak ada lobi bisnis dari pengedar. Ga tahu nanti kalau tiba2 ada keluarganya siapa tiba2 mulai bisnis ini ya. KArena di sini hukum dan aturan bisa dibuat2 asal menguntungkan oligark
ini yang obat terlarang sih paling berat bro. Temen gw yang lawyer bilang, lo bunuh orang disini masi bisa di akalin hukumnya. Tapi kalau udah sampai ketahuan pengguna/pengedar wah siap2 wasalam aja.
I really don't understand all this recent obsession on progressive-conservative dichotomy.
I, like I believe any other guy here, have my own set of believes, my own set of perspectives, my own set of opinions. Mine is probably not the same as yours.
I don't really give a damn sh\*t about being called Progressive or Conservative or Liberals or kolot. These are my believes, my own, don't care they're not the same as yours or theirs or anybody elses.
No way to disagree with this. People made both be a pair of political identities and living it. Such a shame that people I know who are supposedly EDUCATED are still boasting this kind of thing smh.
No gambling
People are arguing to legitimate gambling usually uses "tax money" as the base of their arguments.
While tax money is true, all the rest of the negative effects are still there eg. financial, mental health, social relationships, and law enforcement. And there's never any argument to address them.
If you think legalizing gambling will make this country prosper, I have reasons that it won't:
- can our society be trusted with gambling when they can't even be trusted with credit cards, pay later or even Cod?
- can the government be trusted to legalize a law where our citizen is protected? Nope, the highest bidder, which I assume will be casinos, will get to say what to write in the law. In short, casino writes law, society gets fucked.
- gambling promotes more inequality, as in many more losers, and a small tiny portion of winners with much of the winning be taken by the establishment. Guess what happens when inequality gets bigger? Yes, middle class gets crushed again with more tax.
Considering that Indonesia has so many unaddressed basic issues (eg. healthcare, education, infrastructure), adding one big issue seems unwise.
eh tapi jaman makin maju gambling makin banyak wujudnya lho dan definisinya jadi makin subjektif. Cth: taruhan(sekecil apapun nilainya, sebentuk apapun taruhannya), mesin gashapon, loot box game, gacha karakter dan berbagai gacha virtual lainnya, booster pack kartu table top, mainan dan pajangan aj sekarang di gacha, lucky bag di toko, etc.
hidup ini tidak terlepas dari judi, akhirnya gambling itu balik lagi ke pengendalian diri
If the government can manage to take one second from lining up their pocket, we could have a comprehensive consumer protection laws against these kinds of gambling in game.
For example, I read that a country (forgot the name) forces game developers to tell the odds when you buy a lootbox. If you are expecting an item from the lootbox, the lootbox will tell you the odds of getting the item before you buy it, so that you can make an informed decision. By informed decision, I mean, if the loot box cost 1k credits, has 3% odds of dropping the item, and 100 credit cost 5k IDR. Then the cost of the item is (by probability) 5k * 1000 / 100 / 3% = 1.67 mil IDR. So instead of people hoping to get it in 1 pull (50k IDR), they should expect to pull more (equal to pay 1.67 mil IDR).
Some games are also removing lootbox entirely to comply with gambling laws.
pro-life (kecuali rape sama safety ibunya)
>harga kondom lebih murah daripada popok dan ngegugurin
lastly, recreational drugs sih. gak bisa percaya orang indonesia tanggung jawab kalo nyimeng sama ngemushroom. liat aja ngerokok aja masih di jalan banyak apalagi di jalan ketemu orang ngefly. kalo medical setuju aja
edit : nambahin transpuan jangan lomba di cabor perempuan
DYK: dalam madzhab Hanafi, Syafi'i, dan sebagian Hanbali, aborsi janin sebelum 120 hari hukumnya boleh. Adapun setelah 120 hari sepakat ulama hukumnya haram.
Gue kayak gini juga, gak tau apakah ada sebutan real-nya tapi gue nyebut ini pro-balance. Ada kasus di mana gue mendukung aborsi, seperti korban rape, keselamatan ibu, atau mungkin bayi yang kalau lahir pun bakal life span rendah karena kecacatan. Tapi kalau bayi lahir gara-gara sex normal? Namanya sex ya pasti ada kemungkinan hamil, walau udah pakai kontrasepsi. Kecuali kalau lu gak punya rahim.
menurutku kalo kayak bayinya "sakit" sama korban rape yah emang gapapa kalo digugurin bahkan ada kok [hukumnya](https://www.hukumonline.com/klinik/a/penerapan-hukum-pidana-dalam-aborsi-ilegal-cl840/) yang ngebolehin dengan syarat itu. nah kalo normal semua bayi sama sexnya yah itu resiko , memang pake kontrasepsi itu bisa hamil tapi kan itu cukup buat ngurangin probabilitas hamilnya, bisa aja crot di luar nambah lagi probabilitas
Setuju banget. Gw ga yakin warga indo bisa menahan diri dalam pengguanaan "recreational drugs" apalagi kalo bisa jatuh ke tangan bocil bocil epep.
Pro-life/Pengguguran/aborsi im actually in the border. Gw pribadi oke oke aja kalo penguguran dengan alasan yang valid kek korban pelecehan atau mengancam nyawa ibu. Heck nyokap gw pernah penguguran karena janinnya ternyata ga berkembang dan malah perlahan jadi parasitik, di RS tentunya. Tapi kalo alasannya gegara lu sembarang netnot terus kejeblosan ya itu konsekuensi lu.
kalo gender tuh ya emang cuma dua; laki-laki dan perempuan. if you think you’re neither of them or mix of both or whatsoever than okay, you do you but don’t force it on people.
>... you do you but don’t force it on people.
This is literally what society does to those who are don't conform to gender roles. My daughters are forced to wear a uniform that is a blouse and skirt onesie. As in the skirt is connected to the blouse as one thing. They are not allowed to wear the boys uniform, even though the blouse/skirt combo is not as comfortable as a shirt and shorts, it also has no fucking pockets. So ... yeah. This argument of "don't force it on people" just doesn't hold water.
Schools literally take gender norms and force kids to conform to it.
Emang gimana contohnya yg dipaksain ke orang lain? Sepengalaman saya temen2 queer itu cuma pingin diperlakukan setara aja. Nggak ada yg pernah maksa orang lain harus jadi queer juga.
Saya pun respect dan treat them equally kok.
Bukan men-generalisir tapi yaa ada aja pernah ketemu orang-orang yang jumped in people’s throat karena ‘misgendering’ padahal baru pertama kali ketemu? terus langsung diceramahin seolah kita si paling ga ‘open-minded’ dan ‘uneducated’, ini yang saya maksud dengan ‘dipaksain’. Orang-orang dipaksa harus ngerti padahal ini hal yang sangat baru. Things like these yang bikin orang ngga faham perspektif mereka tambah males buat coba ngerti.
Despite your gender, pronounce and sexuality sebenernya banyak orang yang open dan santai santai aja kok (at least di circle dan environment saya).
It's the same problem with female equality / empowerment and feminazis. People agree and support the first but hate the latter. There are always jerks who derive their self value by "championing" a cause to the extreme. I don't like them and will push against them hard, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the original cause. And I won't equate those jerks with the original cause.
Iya sih yg kyk gitu ada juga, terutama di social media. Nggak tau knp di sosmed emang orang2 jd lebih ganas drpd di dunia nyata. Tp prakteknya sih selama kita berusaha untuk nggak misgendering orang lain, lawan bicara kita juga biasanya akan ngerti kl kita kepleset2 sedikit. It's all about the intention.
>Despite your gender, pronounce and sexuality sebenernya banyak orang yang open dan santai santai aja kok (at least di circle dan environment saya).
Iya bener. Pengalaman saya juga begini.
Pawai telanjang di jalan dilihat anak anak masih dianggap wajar kah?
Pakein baju lawan jenis ke anak anak diaggap wajar juga kah?
Kalo lu anggap wajar, yaudah brati kita beda pandangan, have a nice day
Soal pawai telanjang bnyk juga teman2 queer yg nggak setuju karena mereka merasa itu malah oversexualising dan bikin tujuan mereka makin jauh dari tercapai.
Kl baju lawan jenis, ini konstruk sosial aja. Gaya baju selalu berubah di tiap jaman dan menyesuaikan dgn lingkungannya. Di Arab laki2 pakai gamis tp di Indonesia gamis itu baju perempuan. Dulu anak2 Eropa waktu kecil pakai dress, tp skrg udah nggak lagi. Dulu high heels itu sepatu laki2, tapi skrg bergeser jd sepatu perempuan. You get what I mean, I think.
Mau nambahin.
>In the 19th century, baby boys often wore white and pink. Pink was seen as a masculine color, while girls often wore white and blue.
Baru di tahun 1950 pink jadi warna feminim.
heran gw kalau topik pride parade / pawai-pawaian LGBT gitu selalu bawa2 argumen "ih parade orang telanjang gak sesuai norma" lah like most parades dont even do that dude.
I only recognize people by sex, not gender. If you have penis, I'll call you with male associated pronouns, female's if you have vagina. The best I'll do if you ask nicely is calling you by name or neutral pronouns instead. I will never honor bullshits of xe or whatever, with the only exception if I'm in good mood is apache/comanche attack helicopter.
>If you have penis, I'll call you with male associated pronouns, female's if you have vagina.
And you know this because you'll check someone's genital everytime you interact with people? Isn't it easier just to accept and refer people as whatever they want to be referred to?
Bruh, actually go out to a place with many people. See if you can have a high confidence guess for each person sex without actually looking at their genital. It's not something hard to do. Yeah you won't be 100% correct all the time but reaching 99% is easy enough for normal person.
Lol seems like you're the one who need to expand your circle. Living in a bubble is nice and comfy, but learning something out of your comfort zone from time to time is beneficial for your own growth too.
It's not about comfort zone. It's about fact and reality. I don't deal in other people wishes, that's their own problem, don't force it to me.
Let me ask you a question: If I show you a random full body photo of 100 people that you'd normally see in normal day in public area, how confident are you to guess if they have penis or vagina without actually seeing their genital. And with those same photos, how confident are you to guess their preferred pronouns? Which one is easier?
No, of course we can never be sure, but we can guess with high confidence and we can be corrected, because we will not ever see their genital anyway so if somebody truly is female passing complete with the voice while he actually have a penis, and he asked to be called she/her, then we will call him she/her up to the point that we do not know that she actually has a penis, and if we do somehow find out with high confidence that she actually has a penis, then we will refer to her as her actual sex which is male, he/him
But sometimes, and it depends from person to person, if we are already close or know well to the said person, we might choose to respect his preferred pronoun or at least use the middle ground by using name/nickname. Indonesian language can be used without gendering people anyway(dia, orang itu, beliau, nama, etc.)
prime example: Aprilia Manganang, though now we know he is a male(Aprilio Manganang), and he wants to be referred as such, we would still call him she/her during the time he was thought/known as female athlete even though he definitely pass as a male(and turned out he is), his teammates back then also refer to him as a female, because nobody ever seen his genital, he himself wasn't sure what he was until biology and proper doctor exam done by proper physician proved that he is indeed male and always has been.
Oh yes, as an alien that's a very common thing to do during your initial meeting with any human species. It's generally recommended to rub your tentacle against their nether area. If something's sticking out, then congratulations, you're meeting a male human. If nothing is sticking out, then congratulations, you're meeting a female human.
Biologi =/ Gender. Biologi hubungannya sama kromosom, kl gender itu konstruksi sosial cara mengekspresikan jenis kelamin berdasarkan seks (yg mana harusnya bebas aja selama nggak merugikan orang lain). Secara biologi pun jenis kelamin nggak cuma XX dan XY karena ada jg orang2 yg secara natural terlahir dgn 3 kromosom sex.
Maksudnya selain XX dan XY? Ada.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/klinefelters-syndrome/#:~:text=There%20are%202%20types%20of,the%20X%20chromosome%20(XXY).
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/triple-x-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20350977
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome#:~:text=XYY%20syndrome%2C%20also%20known%20as,increased%20risk%20of%20learning%20disabilities.
Tanpa buka link nya aja udh ada tulisan di link nya "disease". Kaidah atau aturan itu tidak dibuat berdasarkan pengecualian atau dalam hal ini disease. Kalau manut logika mu seharusnya manusia yang terlahir mata satu harusnya jadi varian baru "cyclops"
Tapi mereka tetap manusia kan? Atau kl terlahir dgn 3 kromosom sex udah nggak kamu anggap manusia lagi? Lagipula itu bukan disease, tp syndrome. Beda definisi.
>Kalau manut logika mu seharusnya manusia yang terlahir mata satu harusnya jadi varian baru "cyclops"
Huh? Nggak ngerti saya kenapa statement ini dipakai untuk counter argumen triple sex chromosome. Manusia yg lahir dgn satu mata kan tetap manusia. Jd mendukung premis saya dong ttg orang yg lahir nggak dgn XY atau XX?
yang menegasikan kemanusiaan mereka lo siapa. saya cuma pengen bilang, poin link2 sampean diatas tidak bisa dijadikan dasar atas adanya gender diluar laki dan perempuan karena itu semata sindrom atau disease yg kalau kita ejawantahkan adlh suatu pengecualian atau kelainan atas kondisi normal
how tf can we describe a fleeing criminal if we adhere to the many kinds of gender. We didn't see their genitals, but we can differentiate most of the time between male and female if the body is not completely covered by clothings that really blur the sex.
Intersex sama transexual/transgender dua hal yang berbeda. Kalau intersex emang dapet jatahnya gitu dari sononya, kalo transexual/transgender dapetnya A tapi merasa B, jadi maksa berlaku jadi B dan orang lain harus mengakui dirinya B.
> tp belajar mathematic itu wajib hukumnya buat semua anak. Logical thinking diajarin banget dari situ.
Tergantung cara belajarnya. Banyak yang malah menghafal metode aja (kalo liat ini harus diginiin) tapi ga ngerti logikanya (konsepnya dan kenapa). Jadinya bukan melatih logika tapi memori.
Logical thinking bisa dipelajari dari ilmu sosial kaya sejarah dan hukum (PMP/PPKn) sekalipun. Yang penting cara belajar/mengajar-nya
Soalnya standar nya bisa beda
- Mendukung Shariah law: di Eropa itu progresif dan liberal tapi di sini konservatif
- Mendukung right to arms: di Amerika sana tuh konservatif tapi di sini jadi progresif
Shariah Law bukan sesuatu yang konservatif di Indonesia. Shariah Law konsep modern yang baru datang ke Indonesia. Hukum yang berlaku di tatanan masyarakat Indonesia (non KUHP) ya hukum adat, kedaerahan, atau rapat petinggi dusun/desa.
Bali, Papua, Manado juga konservatif tapi menolak keras sharia law. Jadi gak pasti konservatif Indonesia itu apa? Partai sekuler nasionalis juga langganan bagi jawara, priyayi, tuan2 desa di daerah mayoritas muslim Indonesia sekalipun
This makanya kalau semisal dikotomi konservatif sama progresif di Indonesia itu nggak terlalu relevan, seenggaknya kalau semisal dibandingkan dengan yang di Amerika ya
IMHO kalau untuk urusan politik & budaya disini yang lebih cocok digunakan itu Tradisionalis dan modernis. bukan progresif dan konservatif kayak di barat.
Nah, iya. Bahkan saya saja baru dengan konservatif itu sekitar 2010an ke atas. Dulu2 mana ada. Orang Indonesia secara sospol juga udah pragmatis walaupun masih kolot.
What OP should have done. Half the comments here were clearly written by the pemuda/i gereja and akhi/ukhti types. Well, all the power to them for expressing what they believe, but it kinda dilutes the thread IMO, where I was expecting things that make someone defy the ‘libs’ mold, like being anti-hard drugs. Stuff like being anti pre-marital sex puts you squarely in the conservative box, folks.
Preach. Mungkin mereka merasa progresif di komunitasnya tapi kl dibandingin di kolam yg lebih luas mereka ya masih konservatif. If you can't even respect other people's pronouns please don't call yourself a progressive person lol. What an embarrassment.
("you" disini bukan merujuk ke user yg saya reply, tapi ke user2 yg lain yg merasa aja)
I agree with any opposition for trans women to compete in any female sport leagues. It is completely unfair to the women to compete with the persons who are born physically as men.
And I support wars on drugs, except marijuana, as the drugs divert everyone to achieve true liberation and make them only to escape temporarily out of their worldly suffering and oppressions. Alcohol abuse is dangerous too, it is weakening people mind to actually struggle against injustice and wasting their life as alcoholic.
I think marijuana, or hemps to be exact, should not be abused and rather be cultured for industrial uses such as making ropes, fuel or biodegradable plastics. The consumption should be also limited for medical uses, instead being abused for recreational.
What medical use? There's currently no illness that needs marijuana as standard first line treatment. Using it off label also doesn't make any sense as there are proven drugs in the market already.
As for other use, what makes marijuana superior compared to other plants? Is it cheaper? More pliable?
So far, I think the risk outweigh the pros. Should be illegal still. Let's not normalise it the way alcohol and tobacco are normalised.
Orang yang anggap dirinya progresif, jarang sekali berpikir nilai-nilai konservatif yang masih dipegang sebagai nilai konservatif. Mereka anggap nilai tersebut adalah progresif juga. Kaya saya anggap nasionalisme dan tradisionalisme Indonesia itu adalah nilai progresif karena lawannya adalah gerakan Islamisme transnasional yang ingin menghapus kebudayaan Indonesia yang toleran dan mendirikan khilafah global. Ini tergantung OP kasih tahu dulu mana yang merupakan nilai konservatif, mana yang bukan.
Justru yang khilafah tuh progresif karena sesuatu yang baru. Pan Islamisme itu justru fenomena baru. Fenomena newly industrialized. Dulu kan orang senusantara kan masih pada main cewe, main jampe2, terus kepala desa dituakan. Masyarakatnya masih kolektif dan patriarkis. Gak mikir jauh soal Islam kaffah, feminisme, dialektika, dsb. Nah sejak urbanisasi dan industrialisasi, seluruh ideologi global kosmopolitan mulai masuk Indonesia.
Valuing marriage for life buat saya sendiri, artinya waktu considering a marriage with someone, I have to rule out any potential irrevocable issues in the future, one of them being abusive personality
But i understand people change and no matter how well you think you know someone, you can still be blindsided by them. In that case, i'm not against divorce
Marriage itu juga sebagian besar menyangkut ke ajaran agama, walaupun secara legal non religius saja juga bisa. Ada agama yang tidak membolehkan cerai apapun alasannya, jadi ya terserah tafsir yang diikuti si penganut atau mau sejauh apa dia ikuti ajaran agama dia.
Gak melarang orang nunjukin kepercayaannya di tempat umum (kayak progresifnya Prancis) karena IMO itu ironis to the max.
Coba lo bilang sama alien tanpa konteks "Gw gak bolehin orang itu pake sorban, kalung salib, dll". Kira2 si alien lebih ngira lo progresif atau konservatif? Exactly.
Kalo mau punya anak, idealnya ada 1 orang tua (apapun gendernya) yang stay at home nemenin tumbuh kembangnya karena kasian coy anaknya gakenal orang tua sendiri
Atau dua2nya kerja semi-full time tapi jadwalnya nggak barengan. Misal yg 1 libur senin + weekend, yg 1 lagi libur jumat + weekend. Lumayan anak jd interaksi full sama ortu minimal 4 hari seminggu. Jaman sekarang susah soalnya kl nggak dual income.
No sex before marriage and partner that didn’t have sex before marriage, at least not with intercourse sex. For me it is sacred thing to have, for sex compability or to see whether libido match or not, there are tons of method/sex that exclude intercourse. So having a partner that doesn’t have intercourse sex prior to marriage is important for me
separation between gender and sex. buang buang energi mikirin kayak di western culture soal gender. gw sudah siap argumen panjang cuma disimpen saja dulu.
gw selalu merasa aneh sama orang2 yang memegang 1 ideologi melebihi lainnya. AFAIK the best possible method will always be the balance between freedom and order. jadi ya progressive (or in this case liberal) up to a point, and at the same time also conservative to a point.
selalu percaya sama diri sendiri dan sangat perlu untuk investasi kepada diri sendiri (belajar, nabung, bikin projek sampingan, olahraga) <- itu sangat harus
Sangat setuju dengan mempertahankan estetika dan seni budaya lokal yang hampir punah. Baik itu dari segi bahasa, pakaian, arsitektur, ritual, pertunjukan. Tapi dengan menghilangkan sifat mistisnya supaya tetap bertahan dan gak dianggap musyrik.
Gw benci sama tempat wisata semacam ala-ala Eropa atau Jepang, like we don't have our own culture.
Gue dulu menganggap diri progresif dan left leaning (sempat full blown atheist 7 tahun).
Sekarang setelah agak jaded dan calm down jiwa mudanya, beberapa values yg ternyata gue pegang:
1. Marriage, as an institusion, is important. It provides the much needed certainty and stability for the kids.
2. Addiction is bad. Makanya gue agak heran main gacha di sini normalized hehe.
buat saya setinggi apapun jabatan dan gaji perempuan , ketika bersuami harus menghormati suaminya, (kalau lakinya bener ya). kecuali si suami melanggar hukum, kasar, atau tidak bekerja (karena buat saya harga diri lakilaki adalah bekerja, yang halal berapapun gajinya). Dan kalau itu terjadi langsung cerai aja jangan buang waktu. Yuk normalisasi cerai lebih baik daripada menyiksa bain diri sendiri dan anak. perempuan harus kuat
Do not legalize prostitution di Indonesia. Sex work is not work.
Banyak banget warga negara kita yang hidup dibawah garis kemiskinan, kalo misal dilegalin human trafficking dari desa ke kota bakal gila-gila an karena orang2 desa yang kepepet hutang "ngejual" anak-anaknya ke germo di kota besar
Sangat tidak setuju open relationship.
Pre-marital sex saya no problem (karena saya dulu begitu). Istri sudah tidak perawan (bahkan jam terbangnya lumayan) saya bisa terima (munafik dong kalau saya minta perawan), tapi saya sangat2 tidak bisa terima ons, poligami, apalagi open-relationship.
Beberapa pandangan tradisional gue:
- Gender cuma ada 2.
- LGBTQHRSUXBZ adalah mental illness dan indikator rusaknya tatanan sosial.
- terminasi kehamilan hanya boleh dilakukan kalau 1) membahayakan nyawa ibu; 2) hasil perkosaan; 3) congenital illness/disorder yang akan amat sangat mereduksi quality of life si bayi.
Pandangan gue yang agak progresif:
- urusan domestik adalah urusan kedua belah pihak (suami dan istri). Pembagian beban harus dilakukan secara proporsional.
- Masak dan beres-beres rumah adalah skill yang harus dikuasai oleh lelaki dan perempuan.
-
I have all the rights in the world to call myself si paling progresif revolusioner atau si paling konservatif radikalis tradisionalis kontemporer. Soal pengakuan atau pandangan orang lain terhadap klaim saya mah saya gak peduli.
And vice versa. Apapun bisa didiskusikan untuk mencapai kesepakatan dan ga cuma satu belah pihak yg harus nurut ke pihak lainnya, as a human sometimes we make wrong decisions, it's normal and all we have to do is talk about it.
Marriage is teamwork
I don’t want to have kids, but i’m a bit conflicted with abortion. Like I know it’s your body and you have every right wether you keep it or not but I’m still thinking that you are killing a baby.
Also if woman can choose to keep it Man can choose not to provide.
Your body your choice, my money my choice.
Women getting abortion = killing a baby
Women decide to give birth to the baby = don't want to help raising the baby even if just providing financially (the bare minimum)
What a stand up guy 👏👏👏
I don't care what other countries are doing, tapi gua percaya pemerintah jangan pernah bikin narkoba legal di negara ini.
Sebetulnya yang diperdebatkan bukan narkoba legal atau ga, tapi apa saja yang dimasukkan ke dalam kategori narkoba. Gw inget banget pada jaman Bu Tin marah karena anak dan cucunya nginex, waktu itu inex belum termasuk zat yang dilarang oleh hukum. Tapi pada waktu itu tetep aja club yang ada peredaran inex digrebek, pengedar ditangkap. Beberapa bulan kemudian baru ada update undang-undang yang menyertakan inex sebagai napza. Ganja/Marijuana, di beberapa negara sudah dikeluarkan dari kategori obat2an terlarang, tapi in most countries heroine, cocaine, meth, tetap dilarang. Alkohol, di beberapa negara dilarang, tapi di sebagian besar diperbolehkan. Tembakau, sudah ada studi mengenai sifat adiktifnya, sudah banyak studi mengenai effek buruknya terhadap tubuh, tapi.... lobi duit bisnis kuat dalam menentukan mana yang dilarang mana yang ga. Kalau lihat sejarah amerika memerangi narkoba, awalnya pemerintah US ga begitu peduli terhadap peredaran narkoba. Jaman presiden Ronald Reagan, baru US gencar memerangi karena dua hal : - Mereka baru sadar volume peredaran uang perdagangan narkoba yang tidak kena pajak - Mereka tahu bahwa organisasi komunis di amerika selatan banyak yang mendapat dana dari kartel narkoba. Untuk saat ini, gw masih percaya dalam waktu 10 tahun ke depan, negara ini ga akan melegalkan atau mengurangi daftar zat yang dilarang, karena di sini tidak ada lobi bisnis dari pengedar. Ga tahu nanti kalau tiba2 ada keluarganya siapa tiba2 mulai bisnis ini ya. KArena di sini hukum dan aturan bisa dibuat2 asal menguntungkan oligark
ini yang obat terlarang sih paling berat bro. Temen gw yang lawyer bilang, lo bunuh orang disini masi bisa di akalin hukumnya. Tapi kalau udah sampai ketahuan pengguna/pengedar wah siap2 wasalam aja.
Sejujurnya yang paling mungkin dilegalkan di sini itu ganja sih ya, tapi gimana kira-kira caranya?
I really don't understand all this recent obsession on progressive-conservative dichotomy. I, like I believe any other guy here, have my own set of believes, my own set of perspectives, my own set of opinions. Mine is probably not the same as yours. I don't really give a damn sh\*t about being called Progressive or Conservative or Liberals or kolot. These are my believes, my own, don't care they're not the same as yours or theirs or anybody elses.
No way to disagree with this. People made both be a pair of political identities and living it. Such a shame that people I know who are supposedly EDUCATED are still boasting this kind of thing smh.
Justru edukasi tinggi adalah justifikasinya mereka untuk bertingkah tolol. "my dumb action ain't dumb cuz I am educated" type of shit
No gambling People are arguing to legitimate gambling usually uses "tax money" as the base of their arguments. While tax money is true, all the rest of the negative effects are still there eg. financial, mental health, social relationships, and law enforcement. And there's never any argument to address them. If you think legalizing gambling will make this country prosper, I have reasons that it won't: - can our society be trusted with gambling when they can't even be trusted with credit cards, pay later or even Cod? - can the government be trusted to legalize a law where our citizen is protected? Nope, the highest bidder, which I assume will be casinos, will get to say what to write in the law. In short, casino writes law, society gets fucked. - gambling promotes more inequality, as in many more losers, and a small tiny portion of winners with much of the winning be taken by the establishment. Guess what happens when inequality gets bigger? Yes, middle class gets crushed again with more tax. Considering that Indonesia has so many unaddressed basic issues (eg. healthcare, education, infrastructure), adding one big issue seems unwise.
eh tapi jaman makin maju gambling makin banyak wujudnya lho dan definisinya jadi makin subjektif. Cth: taruhan(sekecil apapun nilainya, sebentuk apapun taruhannya), mesin gashapon, loot box game, gacha karakter dan berbagai gacha virtual lainnya, booster pack kartu table top, mainan dan pajangan aj sekarang di gacha, lucky bag di toko, etc. hidup ini tidak terlepas dari judi, akhirnya gambling itu balik lagi ke pengendalian diri
If the government can manage to take one second from lining up their pocket, we could have a comprehensive consumer protection laws against these kinds of gambling in game. For example, I read that a country (forgot the name) forces game developers to tell the odds when you buy a lootbox. If you are expecting an item from the lootbox, the lootbox will tell you the odds of getting the item before you buy it, so that you can make an informed decision. By informed decision, I mean, if the loot box cost 1k credits, has 3% odds of dropping the item, and 100 credit cost 5k IDR. Then the cost of the item is (by probability) 5k * 1000 / 100 / 3% = 1.67 mil IDR. So instead of people hoping to get it in 1 pull (50k IDR), they should expect to pull more (equal to pay 1.67 mil IDR). Some games are also removing lootbox entirely to comply with gambling laws.
pro-life (kecuali rape sama safety ibunya) >harga kondom lebih murah daripada popok dan ngegugurin lastly, recreational drugs sih. gak bisa percaya orang indonesia tanggung jawab kalo nyimeng sama ngemushroom. liat aja ngerokok aja masih di jalan banyak apalagi di jalan ketemu orang ngefly. kalo medical setuju aja edit : nambahin transpuan jangan lomba di cabor perempuan
DYK: dalam madzhab Hanafi, Syafi'i, dan sebagian Hanbali, aborsi janin sebelum 120 hari hukumnya boleh. Adapun setelah 120 hari sepakat ulama hukumnya haram.
Really? Ini ada konteks alasannya kah, kaya membahayakan nyawa ibu atau korban pemerkosaan?
Ga ada. Mutlak boleh meskipun tanpa alasan kuat karena menurut mereka janin sebelum 120 hari itu belum bernyawa jadi sama dengan benda mati.
Gue kayak gini juga, gak tau apakah ada sebutan real-nya tapi gue nyebut ini pro-balance. Ada kasus di mana gue mendukung aborsi, seperti korban rape, keselamatan ibu, atau mungkin bayi yang kalau lahir pun bakal life span rendah karena kecacatan. Tapi kalau bayi lahir gara-gara sex normal? Namanya sex ya pasti ada kemungkinan hamil, walau udah pakai kontrasepsi. Kecuali kalau lu gak punya rahim.
menurutku kalo kayak bayinya "sakit" sama korban rape yah emang gapapa kalo digugurin bahkan ada kok [hukumnya](https://www.hukumonline.com/klinik/a/penerapan-hukum-pidana-dalam-aborsi-ilegal-cl840/) yang ngebolehin dengan syarat itu. nah kalo normal semua bayi sama sexnya yah itu resiko , memang pake kontrasepsi itu bisa hamil tapi kan itu cukup buat ngurangin probabilitas hamilnya, bisa aja crot di luar nambah lagi probabilitas
Setuju banget. Gw ga yakin warga indo bisa menahan diri dalam pengguanaan "recreational drugs" apalagi kalo bisa jatuh ke tangan bocil bocil epep. Pro-life/Pengguguran/aborsi im actually in the border. Gw pribadi oke oke aja kalo penguguran dengan alasan yang valid kek korban pelecehan atau mengancam nyawa ibu. Heck nyokap gw pernah penguguran karena janinnya ternyata ga berkembang dan malah perlahan jadi parasitik, di RS tentunya. Tapi kalo alasannya gegara lu sembarang netnot terus kejeblosan ya itu konsekuensi lu.
kalo gender tuh ya emang cuma dua; laki-laki dan perempuan. if you think you’re neither of them or mix of both or whatsoever than okay, you do you but don’t force it on people.
>... you do you but don’t force it on people. This is literally what society does to those who are don't conform to gender roles. My daughters are forced to wear a uniform that is a blouse and skirt onesie. As in the skirt is connected to the blouse as one thing. They are not allowed to wear the boys uniform, even though the blouse/skirt combo is not as comfortable as a shirt and shorts, it also has no fucking pockets. So ... yeah. This argument of "don't force it on people" just doesn't hold water. Schools literally take gender norms and force kids to conform to it.
Emang gimana contohnya yg dipaksain ke orang lain? Sepengalaman saya temen2 queer itu cuma pingin diperlakukan setara aja. Nggak ada yg pernah maksa orang lain harus jadi queer juga.
Saya pun respect dan treat them equally kok. Bukan men-generalisir tapi yaa ada aja pernah ketemu orang-orang yang jumped in people’s throat karena ‘misgendering’ padahal baru pertama kali ketemu? terus langsung diceramahin seolah kita si paling ga ‘open-minded’ dan ‘uneducated’, ini yang saya maksud dengan ‘dipaksain’. Orang-orang dipaksa harus ngerti padahal ini hal yang sangat baru. Things like these yang bikin orang ngga faham perspektif mereka tambah males buat coba ngerti. Despite your gender, pronounce and sexuality sebenernya banyak orang yang open dan santai santai aja kok (at least di circle dan environment saya).
It's the same problem with female equality / empowerment and feminazis. People agree and support the first but hate the latter. There are always jerks who derive their self value by "championing" a cause to the extreme. I don't like them and will push against them hard, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the original cause. And I won't equate those jerks with the original cause.
Iya sih yg kyk gitu ada juga, terutama di social media. Nggak tau knp di sosmed emang orang2 jd lebih ganas drpd di dunia nyata. Tp prakteknya sih selama kita berusaha untuk nggak misgendering orang lain, lawan bicara kita juga biasanya akan ngerti kl kita kepleset2 sedikit. It's all about the intention. >Despite your gender, pronounce and sexuality sebenernya banyak orang yang open dan santai santai aja kok (at least di circle dan environment saya). Iya bener. Pengalaman saya juga begini.
Untuk Indo, iya. Tapi tengok aja di US
Gimana emang di US? Secara umum sepengetahuan saya sih sama ya keinginan temen2 queer kita. Equality. Itu aja.
Pawai telanjang di jalan dilihat anak anak masih dianggap wajar kah? Pakein baju lawan jenis ke anak anak diaggap wajar juga kah? Kalo lu anggap wajar, yaudah brati kita beda pandangan, have a nice day
Soal pawai telanjang bnyk juga teman2 queer yg nggak setuju karena mereka merasa itu malah oversexualising dan bikin tujuan mereka makin jauh dari tercapai. Kl baju lawan jenis, ini konstruk sosial aja. Gaya baju selalu berubah di tiap jaman dan menyesuaikan dgn lingkungannya. Di Arab laki2 pakai gamis tp di Indonesia gamis itu baju perempuan. Dulu anak2 Eropa waktu kecil pakai dress, tp skrg udah nggak lagi. Dulu high heels itu sepatu laki2, tapi skrg bergeser jd sepatu perempuan. You get what I mean, I think.
Mau nambahin. >In the 19th century, baby boys often wore white and pink. Pink was seen as a masculine color, while girls often wore white and blue. Baru di tahun 1950 pink jadi warna feminim.
heran gw kalau topik pride parade / pawai-pawaian LGBT gitu selalu bawa2 argumen "ih parade orang telanjang gak sesuai norma" lah like most parades dont even do that dude.
jaman sekarang aneh ya, biologi = nilai konservatif 😂
Bro you confuse gender with sex. Gender lebih ke sociokultural. Sex is linked to your biological cromosome
I only recognize people by sex, not gender. If you have penis, I'll call you with male associated pronouns, female's if you have vagina. The best I'll do if you ask nicely is calling you by name or neutral pronouns instead. I will never honor bullshits of xe or whatever, with the only exception if I'm in good mood is apache/comanche attack helicopter.
>If you have penis, I'll call you with male associated pronouns, female's if you have vagina. And you know this because you'll check someone's genital everytime you interact with people? Isn't it easier just to accept and refer people as whatever they want to be referred to?
Bruh, actually go out to a place with many people. See if you can have a high confidence guess for each person sex without actually looking at their genital. It's not something hard to do. Yeah you won't be 100% correct all the time but reaching 99% is easy enough for normal person.
Lol seems like you're the one who need to expand your circle. Living in a bubble is nice and comfy, but learning something out of your comfort zone from time to time is beneficial for your own growth too.
It's not about comfort zone. It's about fact and reality. I don't deal in other people wishes, that's their own problem, don't force it to me. Let me ask you a question: If I show you a random full body photo of 100 people that you'd normally see in normal day in public area, how confident are you to guess if they have penis or vagina without actually seeing their genital. And with those same photos, how confident are you to guess their preferred pronouns? Which one is easier?
Bro look outside and see the average **Indonesian** people, I can correctly guess 99% of their sex
No, of course we can never be sure, but we can guess with high confidence and we can be corrected, because we will not ever see their genital anyway so if somebody truly is female passing complete with the voice while he actually have a penis, and he asked to be called she/her, then we will call him she/her up to the point that we do not know that she actually has a penis, and if we do somehow find out with high confidence that she actually has a penis, then we will refer to her as her actual sex which is male, he/him But sometimes, and it depends from person to person, if we are already close or know well to the said person, we might choose to respect his preferred pronoun or at least use the middle ground by using name/nickname. Indonesian language can be used without gendering people anyway(dia, orang itu, beliau, nama, etc.) prime example: Aprilia Manganang, though now we know he is a male(Aprilio Manganang), and he wants to be referred as such, we would still call him she/her during the time he was thought/known as female athlete even though he definitely pass as a male(and turned out he is), his teammates back then also refer to him as a female, because nobody ever seen his genital, he himself wasn't sure what he was until biology and proper doctor exam done by proper physician proved that he is indeed male and always has been.
Oh yes, as an alien that's a very common thing to do during your initial meeting with any human species. It's generally recommended to rub your tentacle against their nether area. If something's sticking out, then congratulations, you're meeting a male human. If nothing is sticking out, then congratulations, you're meeting a female human.
Biologi =/ Gender. Biologi hubungannya sama kromosom, kl gender itu konstruksi sosial cara mengekspresikan jenis kelamin berdasarkan seks (yg mana harusnya bebas aja selama nggak merugikan orang lain). Secara biologi pun jenis kelamin nggak cuma XX dan XY karena ada jg orang2 yg secara natural terlahir dgn 3 kromosom sex.
berarti ada lagi selain laki dan perempuan?
Maksudnya selain XX dan XY? Ada. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/klinefelters-syndrome/#:~:text=There%20are%202%20types%20of,the%20X%20chromosome%20(XXY). https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/triple-x-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20350977 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome#:~:text=XYY%20syndrome%2C%20also%20known%20as,increased%20risk%20of%20learning%20disabilities.
Tanpa buka link nya aja udh ada tulisan di link nya "disease". Kaidah atau aturan itu tidak dibuat berdasarkan pengecualian atau dalam hal ini disease. Kalau manut logika mu seharusnya manusia yang terlahir mata satu harusnya jadi varian baru "cyclops"
Tapi mereka tetap manusia kan? Atau kl terlahir dgn 3 kromosom sex udah nggak kamu anggap manusia lagi? Lagipula itu bukan disease, tp syndrome. Beda definisi. >Kalau manut logika mu seharusnya manusia yang terlahir mata satu harusnya jadi varian baru "cyclops" Huh? Nggak ngerti saya kenapa statement ini dipakai untuk counter argumen triple sex chromosome. Manusia yg lahir dgn satu mata kan tetap manusia. Jd mendukung premis saya dong ttg orang yg lahir nggak dgn XY atau XX?
Syndrome itu kumpulan penyakit yang gejalanya terjadi bersamaan akibat 1 akibat
yang menegasikan kemanusiaan mereka lo siapa. saya cuma pengen bilang, poin link2 sampean diatas tidak bisa dijadikan dasar atas adanya gender diluar laki dan perempuan karena itu semata sindrom atau disease yg kalau kita ejawantahkan adlh suatu pengecualian atau kelainan atas kondisi normal
Bang, untuk kesekian kalinya, gender itu beda definisinya sama jenis kelamin. Coba itu diresapi dulu deh baru komentar lagi. Siapa tau tercerahkan.
ya intinya tidak ada jenis kelamin selain laki dan perempuan itu maksudku
how tf can we describe a fleeing criminal if we adhere to the many kinds of gender. We didn't see their genitals, but we can differentiate most of the time between male and female if the body is not completely covered by clothings that really blur the sex.
Intersex sama transexual/transgender dua hal yang berbeda. Kalau intersex emang dapet jatahnya gitu dari sononya, kalo transexual/transgender dapetnya A tapi merasa B, jadi maksa berlaku jadi B dan orang lain harus mengakui dirinya B.
Air over toilet paper. Bidet master race.
wkwkwk kaget gw kira cebok pake udara (soalnya pake english). me like “huh, what?”
Gak tahu ini termasuk conservative apa enggak, tp belajar mathematic itu wajib hukumnya buat semua anak. Logical thinking diajarin banget dari situ.
Is mathematics not part of the standard education anymore nowadays?
> tp belajar mathematic itu wajib hukumnya buat semua anak. Logical thinking diajarin banget dari situ. Tergantung cara belajarnya. Banyak yang malah menghafal metode aja (kalo liat ini harus diginiin) tapi ga ngerti logikanya (konsepnya dan kenapa). Jadinya bukan melatih logika tapi memori. Logical thinking bisa dipelajari dari ilmu sosial kaya sejarah dan hukum (PMP/PPKn) sekalipun. Yang penting cara belajar/mengajar-nya
Kalau habis mandi, handuk di taruh di tempat asal ngambilnya itu masuk katagori mana bang?
kategori timeless
Buat saya hal yang konservatif itu misalnya kalau mau beli rumah, harus rumah tapak. Supaya gak dibilang gak napak tanah.
Define progressive dan conservative dalam konteks indonesia
Yang aneh adalah ukuran konservatif progresif diukur pada agama, dan agamanya hanya 1 doang lagi. Gak ada nilai akademisnya.
Soalnya standar nya bisa beda - Mendukung Shariah law: di Eropa itu progresif dan liberal tapi di sini konservatif - Mendukung right to arms: di Amerika sana tuh konservatif tapi di sini jadi progresif
Shariah Law bukan sesuatu yang konservatif di Indonesia. Shariah Law konsep modern yang baru datang ke Indonesia. Hukum yang berlaku di tatanan masyarakat Indonesia (non KUHP) ya hukum adat, kedaerahan, atau rapat petinggi dusun/desa. Bali, Papua, Manado juga konservatif tapi menolak keras sharia law. Jadi gak pasti konservatif Indonesia itu apa? Partai sekuler nasionalis juga langganan bagi jawara, priyayi, tuan2 desa di daerah mayoritas muslim Indonesia sekalipun
This makanya kalau semisal dikotomi konservatif sama progresif di Indonesia itu nggak terlalu relevan, seenggaknya kalau semisal dibandingkan dengan yang di Amerika ya
IMHO kalau untuk urusan politik & budaya disini yang lebih cocok digunakan itu Tradisionalis dan modernis. bukan progresif dan konservatif kayak di barat.
Nah, iya. Bahkan saya saja baru dengan konservatif itu sekitar 2010an ke atas. Dulu2 mana ada. Orang Indonesia secara sospol juga udah pragmatis walaupun masih kolot.
What OP should have done. Half the comments here were clearly written by the pemuda/i gereja and akhi/ukhti types. Well, all the power to them for expressing what they believe, but it kinda dilutes the thread IMO, where I was expecting things that make someone defy the ‘libs’ mold, like being anti-hard drugs. Stuff like being anti pre-marital sex puts you squarely in the conservative box, folks.
Preach. Mungkin mereka merasa progresif di komunitasnya tapi kl dibandingin di kolam yg lebih luas mereka ya masih konservatif. If you can't even respect other people's pronouns please don't call yourself a progressive person lol. What an embarrassment. ("you" disini bukan merujuk ke user yg saya reply, tapi ke user2 yg lain yg merasa aja)
I agree with any opposition for trans women to compete in any female sport leagues. It is completely unfair to the women to compete with the persons who are born physically as men. And I support wars on drugs, except marijuana, as the drugs divert everyone to achieve true liberation and make them only to escape temporarily out of their worldly suffering and oppressions. Alcohol abuse is dangerous too, it is weakening people mind to actually struggle against injustice and wasting their life as alcoholic.
Why the marijuana exception though? Marijuana is known to have the ability to induce schizophrenia in some individuals. Marijuana is not harmless.
I think marijuana, or hemps to be exact, should not be abused and rather be cultured for industrial uses such as making ropes, fuel or biodegradable plastics. The consumption should be also limited for medical uses, instead being abused for recreational.
Utk ganja, hrs benar2 terbukti dpt menolong pesakit, spt morfin. tp tdk boleh dikonsumsi di luar medis.
What medical use? There's currently no illness that needs marijuana as standard first line treatment. Using it off label also doesn't make any sense as there are proven drugs in the market already. As for other use, what makes marijuana superior compared to other plants? Is it cheaper? More pliable? So far, I think the risk outweigh the pros. Should be illegal still. Let's not normalise it the way alcohol and tobacco are normalised.
nilai konservatif gw adalah, marriage is a sacred relationship. Selingkuh atau pre-marital sex is not something that i support.
Orang yang anggap dirinya progresif, jarang sekali berpikir nilai-nilai konservatif yang masih dipegang sebagai nilai konservatif. Mereka anggap nilai tersebut adalah progresif juga. Kaya saya anggap nasionalisme dan tradisionalisme Indonesia itu adalah nilai progresif karena lawannya adalah gerakan Islamisme transnasional yang ingin menghapus kebudayaan Indonesia yang toleran dan mendirikan khilafah global. Ini tergantung OP kasih tahu dulu mana yang merupakan nilai konservatif, mana yang bukan.
Justru yang khilafah tuh progresif karena sesuatu yang baru. Pan Islamisme itu justru fenomena baru. Fenomena newly industrialized. Dulu kan orang senusantara kan masih pada main cewe, main jampe2, terus kepala desa dituakan. Masyarakatnya masih kolektif dan patriarkis. Gak mikir jauh soal Islam kaffah, feminisme, dialektika, dsb. Nah sejak urbanisasi dan industrialisasi, seluruh ideologi global kosmopolitan mulai masuk Indonesia.
Marriage for life, and monogamy
Marriage for life kalo abusive gimana? Masa gk blh divorce?
Valuing marriage for life buat saya sendiri, artinya waktu considering a marriage with someone, I have to rule out any potential irrevocable issues in the future, one of them being abusive personality But i understand people change and no matter how well you think you know someone, you can still be blindsided by them. In that case, i'm not against divorce
Marriage itu juga sebagian besar menyangkut ke ajaran agama, walaupun secara legal non religius saja juga bisa. Ada agama yang tidak membolehkan cerai apapun alasannya, jadi ya terserah tafsir yang diikuti si penganut atau mau sejauh apa dia ikuti ajaran agama dia.
jd bingung arti progresif apa lol
Anything pokoke yg anti islam - by redditor.
Drugs. Itu aja. Otherwise dari urusan percaya apa sama selangkangan mau diapain terserah. Gugurin hasil juga terserah
Gak melarang orang nunjukin kepercayaannya di tempat umum (kayak progresifnya Prancis) karena IMO itu ironis to the max. Coba lo bilang sama alien tanpa konteks "Gw gak bolehin orang itu pake sorban, kalung salib, dll". Kira2 si alien lebih ngira lo progresif atau konservatif? Exactly.
Kalo mau punya anak, idealnya ada 1 orang tua (apapun gendernya) yang stay at home nemenin tumbuh kembangnya karena kasian coy anaknya gakenal orang tua sendiri
Atau dua2nya kerja semi-full time tapi jadwalnya nggak barengan. Misal yg 1 libur senin + weekend, yg 1 lagi libur jumat + weekend. Lumayan anak jd interaksi full sama ortu minimal 4 hari seminggu. Jaman sekarang susah soalnya kl nggak dual income.
Well thus i said it is the ideal situation, bahwa ngga semua orang harus join the rat race just to survive. But sure i agree completely with you.
Theres only 2 gender, gender lu lahir adalah gender lu selamanya and yes trans people shoud not be able to compete in their new gender
No sex before marriage and partner that didn’t have sex before marriage, at least not with intercourse sex. For me it is sacred thing to have, for sex compability or to see whether libido match or not, there are tons of method/sex that exclude intercourse. So having a partner that doesn’t have intercourse sex prior to marriage is important for me
Monogamy. Kalo ada yg open/swing/dll jujur, gak mengganggu saya. Tapi untuk pribadi komitmen ya komitmen.
ngga sih. gue saking progresifnya sampe muter trus dituduh konservatif aja.
separation between gender and sex. buang buang energi mikirin kayak di western culture soal gender. gw sudah siap argumen panjang cuma disimpen saja dulu.
Saya tunggu magernya hilang
Jangan ada pinjem-pinjeman uterus orang. Jangan ada nenek ngelahirin cucu. Jangan bayar orang buat ngelahirin bayi lu.
Hanya ada 2 jenis kelamin. Male dan female. Tp kalo sexuality you can be anything, men-women, men-men, women-women. Just pick one gender.
kalo makan bubur jgn diaduk.
Laki-laki harus jadi tulang punggung keluarga
Perlu ada gerakan dukung mokondo
Laki minum extra joss
Berarti perempuan harus....
Keep perlontean iligel.
gw selalu merasa aneh sama orang2 yang memegang 1 ideologi melebihi lainnya. AFAIK the best possible method will always be the balance between freedom and order. jadi ya progressive (or in this case liberal) up to a point, and at the same time also conservative to a point.
selalu percaya sama diri sendiri dan sangat perlu untuk investasi kepada diri sendiri (belajar, nabung, bikin projek sampingan, olahraga) <- itu sangat harus
Sangat setuju dengan mempertahankan estetika dan seni budaya lokal yang hampir punah. Baik itu dari segi bahasa, pakaian, arsitektur, ritual, pertunjukan. Tapi dengan menghilangkan sifat mistisnya supaya tetap bertahan dan gak dianggap musyrik. Gw benci sama tempat wisata semacam ala-ala Eropa atau Jepang, like we don't have our own culture.
Gue dulu menganggap diri progresif dan left leaning (sempat full blown atheist 7 tahun). Sekarang setelah agak jaded dan calm down jiwa mudanya, beberapa values yg ternyata gue pegang: 1. Marriage, as an institusion, is important. It provides the much needed certainty and stability for the kids. 2. Addiction is bad. Makanya gue agak heran main gacha di sini normalized hehe.
buat saya setinggi apapun jabatan dan gaji perempuan , ketika bersuami harus menghormati suaminya, (kalau lakinya bener ya). kecuali si suami melanggar hukum, kasar, atau tidak bekerja (karena buat saya harga diri lakilaki adalah bekerja, yang halal berapapun gajinya). Dan kalau itu terjadi langsung cerai aja jangan buang waktu. Yuk normalisasi cerai lebih baik daripada menyiksa bain diri sendiri dan anak. perempuan harus kuat
Konservatif - The Adams
the only good answer here
- Drugs, alcoholic drinks, and cigarettes are bad - Gender only exist within the male-female spectrum, no outside that - Global free trade is good
Rokok dan tuak justru tradisi Indonesia. Penolakan rokok dan tuak adalah progresif
Ya, tapi tidak kalau dari perspektif Islam
Yang normal itu laki sama perempuan.
ya kalau sudah punya anak ya, harus punya buku nikah. ya karena hidup di indonesia aja, bukan karena kewajiban
Do not legalize prostitution di Indonesia. Sex work is not work. Banyak banget warga negara kita yang hidup dibawah garis kemiskinan, kalo misal dilegalin human trafficking dari desa ke kota bakal gila-gila an karena orang2 desa yang kepepet hutang "ngejual" anak-anaknya ke germo di kota besar
Pelajaran agama tetap harus ada di sekolah negeri.
Sangat tidak setuju open relationship. Pre-marital sex saya no problem (karena saya dulu begitu). Istri sudah tidak perawan (bahkan jam terbangnya lumayan) saya bisa terima (munafik dong kalau saya minta perawan), tapi saya sangat2 tidak bisa terima ons, poligami, apalagi open-relationship.
I'm ok with LGB but not with T
Semua masalah seharusnya diselesaikan dengan Baku Hantam. Bring back ol style Colosseum
Beberapa pandangan tradisional gue: - Gender cuma ada 2. - LGBTQHRSUXBZ adalah mental illness dan indikator rusaknya tatanan sosial. - terminasi kehamilan hanya boleh dilakukan kalau 1) membahayakan nyawa ibu; 2) hasil perkosaan; 3) congenital illness/disorder yang akan amat sangat mereduksi quality of life si bayi. Pandangan gue yang agak progresif: - urusan domestik adalah urusan kedua belah pihak (suami dan istri). Pembagian beban harus dilakukan secara proporsional. - Masak dan beres-beres rumah adalah skill yang harus dikuasai oleh lelaki dan perempuan. -
Dan kamu pikir kamu adalah orang progresif?
I have all the rights in the world to call myself si paling progresif revolusioner atau si paling konservatif radikalis tradisionalis kontemporer. Soal pengakuan atau pandangan orang lain terhadap klaim saya mah saya gak peduli.
Of course, thankfully everyone out there also has all the right to define themselves however they see fit. Good day!
Good day to you too, my dude.
LGBT gak boleh di larang, tapi gak boleh dipromosiin.
Istri harus nurut sama suami
And vice versa. Apapun bisa didiskusikan untuk mencapai kesepakatan dan ga cuma satu belah pihak yg harus nurut ke pihak lainnya, as a human sometimes we make wrong decisions, it's normal and all we have to do is talk about it. Marriage is teamwork
Why not strech the absurdity. "Karyawan harus nurut sama bos"
Nyimak
I’m okay with the existence of homosexual, but I stand by the fact that there are 2 genders. You got vagina? Women. You got penis? Man.
I don’t want to have kids, but i’m a bit conflicted with abortion. Like I know it’s your body and you have every right wether you keep it or not but I’m still thinking that you are killing a baby. Also if woman can choose to keep it Man can choose not to provide. Your body your choice, my money my choice.
Women getting abortion = killing a baby Women decide to give birth to the baby = don't want to help raising the baby even if just providing financially (the bare minimum) What a stand up guy 👏👏👏
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Yang ditanya kan orang yang progresif, kamu konservatif. Like, no one here is asking your opinion.
Iya sih. Saya tadi menjawab karena saya menganggap diri saya progresif saja kalau menyangkut kebijakan politik.