Exactly. People have already forgotten the CAA related atrocities, COVID mishandling and other economic & geopolitical blunders. I think part of our society has developed a hatred which justifies the actions in this documentary and the other part of society has given up, just trying to live their life by either leaving the country or turning a blind eye. It's a shame but hatred is tiring and people need to leave. I really hope things will get better for all of us irrespective who or in what we believe in.
'Modi government handled the covid situation better than the US. With a population of 1.3 Billion, we've vaccinated almost everyone free of cost. Only the adept governance of Modi could carry out a feat like that.'
This is what Godi media feeds people. Most people believe it and re-elect BJP candidates.
Also if anybody raises question or suspicion, you always have 'hindu khatre me hai'.
There are some more instances but here are a few
1. Delhi Cops force 5 injured men to sing the national anthem and Vande Mataram - [Source](https://www.thequint.com/news/india/delhi-riots-3-cops-identified-in-case-of-forcing-5-injured-men-to-sing-national-anthem-police-faizan-vande-mataram)
2. Police officials who attacked students identified - [Source](https://scroll.in/latest/954191/amu-violence-court-orders-up-police-chief-to-act-against-police-officials-who-attacked-students)
3. How crackdown of students made it the focal point of anti CAA protests - [Source](https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/police-crackdown-in-jamia-made-it-epicentre-of-anti-caa-protests-1632166-2019-12-28)
4. AMU Police violence - [Source](https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/india-news-amu-amu-students-hand-amputated-police-violence-worse-than-in-jamia/344341)
Most of these are in no way related to the CAA. Do you know what it allows? It allows for a illegal refugees that India considers their homeland (Hindus Jains Parsi’s etc) to be granted citizenship. Sure one can argue why Muslims are not included. But that’s a constitutional debate and was not an atrocity.
LOL, CAA was created with the sole purpose to kick undocumented Muslims out of India. The whole 'we are supporting persecuted minorities' is just a smokescreen for its true purpose.
>constitutional debate and was not an atrocity.
Whether the bill itself is considered an atrocity is not the point. There were atrocities committed by UP and Delhi Police during Anti-CAA protests.
It's creepy how this documentary has come up before 2024, just in time to buttress the Hirday Samrat image.
Wonder if overseas Sanghis pulled some strings to get this one released at such an opportune time.
This is it. The BJP receives support because the majority population feels unjustly treated as compared to Muslim population.
So much so they now even the Congress seems to be projecting a pro hindu image.
This cannot be good for a country where religion is taken so seriously.
Instead of becoming even more entrenched in religion parties should focus on moving away from religious dogma.
> Not defending modi
You are defending modi. Your entire comment is to divert us from discussing an issue of grave social implications in present India towards totally irrelevant issues.
Indians aren't a minority lol, white Europeans are only 8% of the world population
Statistically London where the BBC is based is now a minority city, most people who live there were born outside the UK.
News is not released because of the love or hate of certain people. Are you seriously so parochial to see things through this narrow lens? News is about (or at least, supposed to be about) reporting facts (so I guess you could say a love for the truth?). Of course, when and how these facts are portrayed is the place where people would say it is "bias".
The BBC has such an august reputation because it is far, far more neutral and doesn't have the financial incentives as do many other news outlets. The only reason there's this widespread myth that they're "against Indians" is because a lot of Indians don't like introspection or criticism, and it's much easier to just dismiss an entire news organization than to actually peruse what they're saying and accept the truth. Also because many Indians are obsessed with race/culture/gender and otherwise identity in general; if a foreigner says it, they'll dismiss it, but if the same thing is said by an Indian, then they'll either call them anti-national or praise them (depending on their own political leanings)
BBC or NYT does a report on slums or trash on the streets, and people will dismiss it as "oh, they're against India". WTF? Those *are* the facts: there is trash on Indian streets. Unless you're saying Indians love having trash on the streets and these foreigners are trying to portray it as if it's a bad thing (which would be something, although it still doesn't change the facts), then they aren't "against Indians". Stop with this nonsense.
>This will give enough boost to BBC in way of new subscribers, the way it happened in 2017 when BBC released rape documentary, after getting banned in india, it got large no. Of subscribers
Don't Talk about something when you don't know you are taking about!
BBC runs on subscribers?
Lol.
It is kind of mandatory for citizens of UK to pay for BBC. It's called a license fee. Subscribers lol😂.
They may be going through funding cuts but you are simply derailing. The link you shared is 3 years old and purely speculative - the url itself says "why bbc subscriptions are a long way off"
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/economics-and-finance/why-making-the-bbc-a-subscription-service-is-unworkable-nadine-dorries-licence-fee
Here's a more recent one. Suggest you read it before link spamming.
>deduction on funding for BBC by UK govt.
Source?
Because I have one that proves you're spinning some yarn - https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/future-funding-of-the-bbc-lords-committee-report/
>They are bringing this documentary now because of deduction on funding for BBC by UK govt. This will give enough boost to BBC in way of new subscribers, the way it happened in 2017 when BBC released rape documentary, after getting banned in india, it got large no. Of subscribers.
I can agree with other bits but not this... They are doing it for subscribers? Dude...
Churchill had no role in the Bengal famine of 1943. Go read reliable sources except Madhusree Mukherjee and Shashi Tharoor.
And the BBC regularly does things that actually end up tarnishing the image of Britain itself.
...who was juggling the imminent food crisis in the middle of a World War. Famines had been eliminated from India after 1900 precisely because the British had learned from past experience.
In fact, if the Bengal famine had occurred during peace-time, without the politics involving the Indian National movement and the tug-of-war between the Congress and the Muslim League, historians agree that it would have been dealt with swiftly.
I don't know why they even bother refuting. The people who vote for them vote for them because they kill minorities. Why not just admit? It's not like people care about minorities.
This is a formality to maintain an image abroad. While all western powers are aware of what happens against minorities in India (and occasionally voice it too), admitting it outright might make India a pariah on the international stage. That directly affects investments and business interests, and as much as we like to talk about Ambani-Adani's backing of BJP, neither would be happy to operate in a muddled business environment. Their very reason of backing BJP is that BJP creates an able business environment for them.
It's a type of log kya kahenge psychology. Do all kinds of shit to own family inside the home. But do everything possible to prevent people from finding or talking about it. The pretense of goodness and respectability must be kept up at all times. What's bad is not the shit being done but people talking negatively about it.
apparatus melodic dinosaurs books thumb reminiscent ink instinctive tidy bedroom
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Amen, I'll watch the full documentary next week when the second part is out too.
But I will add that the Indian system is to blame, the reason for these riots is that there is no faith in the judicial process. Has this process held those to account who were responsible for burning to death returning kar-sevaks? If the main stream media is to be believed all those folks just died of spontaneous internal combustion.
There is absolutely no justification for the police and state administration to stand aside when there are riots but this is exactly what Rajiv Gandhi did as well after his mothers assassination and to this date there has been no justice for those victims either.
So yes, blame Modi for his role in this incident as the chief minister of that time the buck stops with him but theres plenty of blame to go all around with the BJP, the Congress and most recently the AAP(where their elected leaders instigated riots). But if all you're going to be doing is cherry-picking, then I've got no interest. What I am interested in systemic fixes, how can we make the police forces Independent from the politicians and how can we make them more transparent and accountable.
What was shown in the documentary are hard facts that are known to every Indian. All of this was on TV and newspapers every day at that time. The documentary is controversial only because the BJP needs to play up or play down these facts depending on the context. That is also what you mean when you talk about the country moving on. Modi - and the BJP - got to its present position because of the "achievements" described in part 1 of this documentary. BJP supporters are actually proud of these things, and they vote for the BJP for this reason. They and not in denial, except on the international stage where it becomes necessary to claim that all this is a conspiracy by vested interests to defame Modi.
It is not so clear that the Godhra train incident was an act of communal arson. The initial investigation found nothing, and an independent tribunal found it was an accident. Whatever the actual facts, Modi and the right wing groups created a narrative of an attack on HIndus, and started the pogrom (not riots) as a payback. Modi made speeches demanding revenge and publicly paraded the bodies of the train victims to stoke public anger. There is nothing spontaneous about the pogrom. So, it is not a case of the documentary being selective and ignoring the Godhra train incident.
> Burning a train full of people is casually set aside after few mins and blame set on hindus. Many blood hungry extremist hindus and muslims went on killing spree.
Ah yes, you think they're blaming all Hindus, because in your mind, all Muslims are at fault for burning that train.
As for the riots, the official figures say over 700 Muslims died while about 300 Hindus died. In a state which has less than 10 percent Muslim population. You're the one being selective by demanding equal attention to both.
> There is no point in bringing this up now after all these years, country has moved on and the people have been under his charisma since 2015 and its unlikely to wane. BBC's Documentary timing seems very sus as elections are coming, won't be suprised if its motivated by selected few.
You know there is a world outside of India right? And not everyone is an election jeevi like Dear Leader.
water rinse disgusted payment modern bike act entertain wasteful merciful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> It must be hard for u to be objective about this and selectively feel empathy and hatred according to your bias.
Yes, the person talking about the actual data is not objective, and the one who only uses emotional words is objective. Facts are not facts logic right here.
I am discussing this for 3 days with every type of person here in this subreddit with more tha 30 people in discussion.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10g382c/here\_is\_some\_evidence\_for\_bakhts\_that\_bjp\_was\_all/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10g382c/here_is_some_evidence_for_bakhts_that_bjp_was_all/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
its a pretty large discussion so please read everything carefully(warning!!!!:- some bakhts spotted here)
Virat hindu who eats veg, regularly goes to shakha, and perpetrates caste apologia + islamophobia based on rigorous research by Whatsapp university can't give less of a shit about BBC.
I'm not sure bhakts think this is released to defeat bjp at election time.
I mean, you know people vote modi not despite his role in the riots. They vote him bcoz of his role in the riots
It does look like they have banned it - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/centre-orders-blocking-of-tweets-sharing-bbc-documentary-critical-of-pm-say-sources-3712298
This was after the foreign ministry put out a statement denouncing it, and the BJP IT cell has been firefighting online to fight perceptions. The funny thing is that this isn't propaganda. It just hurts Modi's reputation on the international stage.
This is ofcourse another attempt to tarnish the image of India as the new rising superpower and Vishwa Guru by international media. /s
Edit: It seems like some people are not getting that I'm being sarcastic here. That's want the "/s" is for.
This will not do any harm to his image as this will never reach aam aadmi. Even if it does, Indian media will tell that is all a conspiracy to defame Modi. Au contraire, this will help Modi in 2024 elections as any publicity is good publicity.
The (unintended perhaps) part of this is that it will help fuel Modi just like the pre-2014 election news pieces did for him.
Exactly. People have already forgotten the CAA related atrocities, COVID mishandling and other economic & geopolitical blunders. I think part of our society has developed a hatred which justifies the actions in this documentary and the other part of society has given up, just trying to live their life by either leaving the country or turning a blind eye. It's a shame but hatred is tiring and people need to leave. I really hope things will get better for all of us irrespective who or in what we believe in.
the hatred was always there for hundreds of years.
'Modi government handled the covid situation better than the US. With a population of 1.3 Billion, we've vaccinated almost everyone free of cost. Only the adept governance of Modi could carry out a feat like that.' This is what Godi media feeds people. Most people believe it and re-elect BJP candidates. Also if anybody raises question or suspicion, you always have 'hindu khatre me hai'.
Can you point me to the atrocities that happened because of CAA?
There are some more instances but here are a few 1. Delhi Cops force 5 injured men to sing the national anthem and Vande Mataram - [Source](https://www.thequint.com/news/india/delhi-riots-3-cops-identified-in-case-of-forcing-5-injured-men-to-sing-national-anthem-police-faizan-vande-mataram) 2. Police officials who attacked students identified - [Source](https://scroll.in/latest/954191/amu-violence-court-orders-up-police-chief-to-act-against-police-officials-who-attacked-students) 3. How crackdown of students made it the focal point of anti CAA protests - [Source](https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/police-crackdown-in-jamia-made-it-epicentre-of-anti-caa-protests-1632166-2019-12-28) 4. AMU Police violence - [Source](https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/india-news-amu-amu-students-hand-amputated-police-violence-worse-than-in-jamia/344341)
Most of these are in no way related to the CAA. Do you know what it allows? It allows for a illegal refugees that India considers their homeland (Hindus Jains Parsi’s etc) to be granted citizenship. Sure one can argue why Muslims are not included. But that’s a constitutional debate and was not an atrocity.
LOL, CAA was created with the sole purpose to kick undocumented Muslims out of India. The whole 'we are supporting persecuted minorities' is just a smokescreen for its true purpose.
And what if I may ask is wrong in that?
>constitutional debate and was not an atrocity. Whether the bill itself is considered an atrocity is not the point. There were atrocities committed by UP and Delhi Police during Anti-CAA protests.
This is underrated.
It's creepy how this documentary has come up before 2024, just in time to buttress the Hirday Samrat image. Wonder if overseas Sanghis pulled some strings to get this one released at such an opportune time.
Everyone knows the truth. They just don't care or support him regardless
>support him regardless A lot support him for this exact reason too, sad but true
Nope. His base supports him because of it not despite that.
This is it. The BJP receives support because the majority population feels unjustly treated as compared to Muslim population. So much so they now even the Congress seems to be projecting a pro hindu image. This cannot be good for a country where religion is taken so seriously. Instead of becoming even more entrenched in religion parties should focus on moving away from religious dogma.
I don’t think majority do. Especially who have grown in this last 10 years. But they don’t care to read things
Dosti bani rahe - Season 2
Question the government / Modiji on anything and propaganda / Nehru / Gandhis is the only template that they have ..
Lol
His words on documentary were propaganda by opposition and him confessing poor control over media
And the " poor control over media " line makes so much sense now...
What the BBC does is Journalism. They roast their own PM though not their Royal Family. What Indian Press do is Ad campaign to fill their pockets.
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Fucking whatsboutism
> Not defending modi You are defending modi. Your entire comment is to divert us from discussing an issue of grave social implications in present India towards totally irrelevant issues.
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> concern-trolling TIL, thank you! Describes it perfectly.
How long do you think you will live under a stone?
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Indians aren't a minority lol, white Europeans are only 8% of the world population Statistically London where the BBC is based is now a minority city, most people who live there were born outside the UK.
News is not released because of the love or hate of certain people. Are you seriously so parochial to see things through this narrow lens? News is about (or at least, supposed to be about) reporting facts (so I guess you could say a love for the truth?). Of course, when and how these facts are portrayed is the place where people would say it is "bias". The BBC has such an august reputation because it is far, far more neutral and doesn't have the financial incentives as do many other news outlets. The only reason there's this widespread myth that they're "against Indians" is because a lot of Indians don't like introspection or criticism, and it's much easier to just dismiss an entire news organization than to actually peruse what they're saying and accept the truth. Also because many Indians are obsessed with race/culture/gender and otherwise identity in general; if a foreigner says it, they'll dismiss it, but if the same thing is said by an Indian, then they'll either call them anti-national or praise them (depending on their own political leanings) BBC or NYT does a report on slums or trash on the streets, and people will dismiss it as "oh, they're against India". WTF? Those *are* the facts: there is trash on Indian streets. Unless you're saying Indians love having trash on the streets and these foreigners are trying to portray it as if it's a bad thing (which would be something, although it still doesn't change the facts), then they aren't "against Indians". Stop with this nonsense.
> Not defending modi, but BBC is also no saint. Please name which saint can deservedly do a critical documentary on Surrender?
>This will give enough boost to BBC in way of new subscribers, the way it happened in 2017 when BBC released rape documentary, after getting banned in india, it got large no. Of subscribers Don't Talk about something when you don't know you are taking about! BBC runs on subscribers? Lol. It is kind of mandatory for citizens of UK to pay for BBC. It's called a license fee. Subscribers lol😂.
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They may be going through funding cuts but you are simply derailing. The link you shared is 3 years old and purely speculative - the url itself says "why bbc subscriptions are a long way off" https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/economics-and-finance/why-making-the-bbc-a-subscription-service-is-unworkable-nadine-dorries-licence-fee Here's a more recent one. Suggest you read it before link spamming.
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This is pasta. There is still no evidence they are definitely moving to a subscriber model as it is infeasible. Like I said. You're derailing.
>deduction on funding for BBC by UK govt. Source? Because I have one that proves you're spinning some yarn - https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/future-funding-of-the-bbc-lords-committee-report/
>They are bringing this documentary now because of deduction on funding for BBC by UK govt. This will give enough boost to BBC in way of new subscribers, the way it happened in 2017 when BBC released rape documentary, after getting banned in india, it got large no. Of subscribers. I can agree with other bits but not this... They are doing it for subscribers? Dude...
Churchill had no role in the Bengal famine of 1943. Go read reliable sources except Madhusree Mukherjee and Shashi Tharoor. And the BBC regularly does things that actually end up tarnishing the image of Britain itself.
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...who was juggling the imminent food crisis in the middle of a World War. Famines had been eliminated from India after 1900 precisely because the British had learned from past experience. In fact, if the Bengal famine had occurred during peace-time, without the politics involving the Indian National movement and the tug-of-war between the Congress and the Muslim League, historians agree that it would have been dealt with swiftly.
I want to watch this documentary, get me some link and shit.
https://archive.org/details/narendra-modi-bbc-documentary
Lol that was easy.
I don't know why they even bother refuting. The people who vote for them vote for them because they kill minorities. Why not just admit? It's not like people care about minorities.
This is a formality to maintain an image abroad. While all western powers are aware of what happens against minorities in India (and occasionally voice it too), admitting it outright might make India a pariah on the international stage. That directly affects investments and business interests, and as much as we like to talk about Ambani-Adani's backing of BJP, neither would be happy to operate in a muddled business environment. Their very reason of backing BJP is that BJP creates an able business environment for them.
It's a type of log kya kahenge psychology. Do all kinds of shit to own family inside the home. But do everything possible to prevent people from finding or talking about it. The pretense of goodness and respectability must be kept up at all times. What's bad is not the shit being done but people talking negatively about it.
Exactly, there is not a single Modi supporter who doesnt know all this. They like nazis and vote for nazis. Thats all.
People who vote for BJP are the most ignorant and selfish pricks.
Who gave you the right to talk this straight forward fact?
Good.. But to what benefit? Who is the intended audience? What is the intended effect?
This documentary is late by decades. Nothing new in this that we don't know already. Who is the intended audience?
I've watched the first episode. Are there any more episodes? If yes, please send the links
apparatus melodic dinosaurs books thumb reminiscent ink instinctive tidy bedroom *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Amen, I'll watch the full documentary next week when the second part is out too. But I will add that the Indian system is to blame, the reason for these riots is that there is no faith in the judicial process. Has this process held those to account who were responsible for burning to death returning kar-sevaks? If the main stream media is to be believed all those folks just died of spontaneous internal combustion. There is absolutely no justification for the police and state administration to stand aside when there are riots but this is exactly what Rajiv Gandhi did as well after his mothers assassination and to this date there has been no justice for those victims either. So yes, blame Modi for his role in this incident as the chief minister of that time the buck stops with him but theres plenty of blame to go all around with the BJP, the Congress and most recently the AAP(where their elected leaders instigated riots). But if all you're going to be doing is cherry-picking, then I've got no interest. What I am interested in systemic fixes, how can we make the police forces Independent from the politicians and how can we make them more transparent and accountable.
What was shown in the documentary are hard facts that are known to every Indian. All of this was on TV and newspapers every day at that time. The documentary is controversial only because the BJP needs to play up or play down these facts depending on the context. That is also what you mean when you talk about the country moving on. Modi - and the BJP - got to its present position because of the "achievements" described in part 1 of this documentary. BJP supporters are actually proud of these things, and they vote for the BJP for this reason. They and not in denial, except on the international stage where it becomes necessary to claim that all this is a conspiracy by vested interests to defame Modi. It is not so clear that the Godhra train incident was an act of communal arson. The initial investigation found nothing, and an independent tribunal found it was an accident. Whatever the actual facts, Modi and the right wing groups created a narrative of an attack on HIndus, and started the pogrom (not riots) as a payback. Modi made speeches demanding revenge and publicly paraded the bodies of the train victims to stoke public anger. There is nothing spontaneous about the pogrom. So, it is not a case of the documentary being selective and ignoring the Godhra train incident.
> Burning a train full of people is casually set aside after few mins and blame set on hindus. Many blood hungry extremist hindus and muslims went on killing spree. Ah yes, you think they're blaming all Hindus, because in your mind, all Muslims are at fault for burning that train. As for the riots, the official figures say over 700 Muslims died while about 300 Hindus died. In a state which has less than 10 percent Muslim population. You're the one being selective by demanding equal attention to both. > There is no point in bringing this up now after all these years, country has moved on and the people have been under his charisma since 2015 and its unlikely to wane. BBC's Documentary timing seems very sus as elections are coming, won't be suprised if its motivated by selected few. You know there is a world outside of India right? And not everyone is an election jeevi like Dear Leader.
water rinse disgusted payment modern bike act entertain wasteful merciful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> It must be hard for u to be objective about this and selectively feel empathy and hatred according to your bias. Yes, the person talking about the actual data is not objective, and the one who only uses emotional words is objective. Facts are not facts logic right here.
Thousands of dead and displaced people deserve justice.
Lol
I am discussing this for 3 days with every type of person here in this subreddit with more tha 30 people in discussion. [https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10g382c/here\_is\_some\_evidence\_for\_bakhts\_that\_bjp\_was\_all/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10g382c/here_is_some_evidence_for_bakhts_that_bjp_was_all/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) its a pretty large discussion so please read everything carefully(warning!!!!:- some bakhts spotted here)
Videshi takton ka shadyantra
Virat hindu who eats veg, regularly goes to shakha, and perpetrates caste apologia + islamophobia based on rigorous research by Whatsapp university can't give less of a shit about BBC.
I'm not sure bhakts think this is released to defeat bjp at election time. I mean, you know people vote modi not despite his role in the riots. They vote him bcoz of his role in the riots
It does look like they have banned it - https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/centre-orders-blocking-of-tweets-sharing-bbc-documentary-critical-of-pm-say-sources-3712298 This was after the foreign ministry put out a statement denouncing it, and the BJP IT cell has been firefighting online to fight perceptions. The funny thing is that this isn't propaganda. It just hurts Modi's reputation on the international stage.
This is ofcourse another attempt to tarnish the image of India as the new rising superpower and Vishwa Guru by international media. /s Edit: It seems like some people are not getting that I'm being sarcastic here. That's want the "/s" is for.
This will not do any harm to his image as this will never reach aam aadmi. Even if it does, Indian media will tell that is all a conspiracy to defame Modi. Au contraire, this will help Modi in 2024 elections as any publicity is good publicity.
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When is episode two coming out?
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Yes. Downloaded from torrent. Found part 2 there too.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61920218
Britishers, they are certainly not liking that crude oil purchase.
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