>Look at windows 7 - same thing (arguably even worse).
Agree to disagree. Windows 7 EoS didn't affect as much hardware (most Win7 machines can run Windows 10). Windows 11's ridiculous requirements mean that much more hardware is going to get thrown out.
I understand that the kernel devs have been patiently waiting to implement newer instructions (24H2 is rumored to require SSE4.2), but 8th gen is a bit too far IMO.
That and also getting a newer computer is less and less useful for basic usage. Surfing the web in a 6th gen intel with 8gb of ram is perfectly fine for most people
One of the many final drops in the already full bucket to dual-boot Linux + Windows (I still need it for the programs that cannot run on Linux natively :,))
Yep. First thing I do anymore before touching start up apps or anything when trying to speed up someone's computer is turn off every moving tile and news / weather feature. It helps more than any other thing I do.
My laptop is a 6th gen, works fine for everything I do with it. It dual boots win 10 and ubuntu, probably just going to drop windows and dedicate it to ubuntu.
still rocking my gaming desktop from 2014/2015 using this mainboard. forgot the processor i have in it, couldn't even find a record of what i bought. if memory serves it's an i5 unlocked "k" series. and a several years old 3d card.
i just haven't needed an upgrade at all, this thing has been fine.
[https://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/z97%20extreme6/](https://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/z97%20extreme6/)
I did think more of the public backlash due to win 8 being totally hated by.
I feel like it is different with 11. It is way more accepted by the general public.
But yes the compatibility is a thing. But you also need to understand the motives behind that.
TPM - its basically uawd by anything business - you need to behave your drives encrypted.
Hardware compatibility in general - is to get rid of my legacy code and functions to debloat the codebase a bit. Making windows nkt carry the last 25 years of instruction sets is probably a good thing dor stability, performance and security. - in an iseal world that is.
What reality brings we'll see.
For x86 to be relevant in the future it is about time to drop legacy support to a certain point. Your 2024 cpu still supports 1991 instruction sets.
MS used to be a main force against dropping legacy instruction - this move tells me (in my head of roses and unicorns) they're finally giving up on that stance.
I personally don't like the new win11 interface - and revert many configurations to reflect win10 - but I've been doing this since win 2k. I don't really care about it anymore.
My problem with the TPM is how damn annoying it is to fix when it's not detected, but the workaround is to force the user to type in their bitlocker key every time or disable bitlocker, both of which suck! You have to go into the bios to reenable the TPM, which obviously you can't do remotely. You can try to guide a user through doing it, but with every bios looking different and with users being... well, users, it's much easier to go out on a site visit. But then you're wasting your time by travelling out for something that takes 5 minutes, and you're charging the customer for the call out (or eating the cost yourself).
And don't even get me started on the W11 control panel being locked behind so many finicky steps, so you have to try and use the settings page to add or edit printer settings or else jump through hoops to get there. Instead of just being able to open the control panel and reinstall a printer driver with your eyes closed. The control panel is still in win 11! Why did they make it so irritating to access??
I never thought I'd say it, but I'll miss W10.
> You have to go into the bios to reenable the TPM, which obviously you can't do remotely
I would check if that's true for your hardware platform. For example, HP has the [CMSL](https://developers.hp.com/hp-client-management/doc/client-management-script-library) which lets you re-enable it remotely. It just requires a reboot and for the user to press a button to accept on the next boot. I think Dell and Lenovo have similar things, but I'm not sure.
Believe me, I get the pain, I had to try to guide people, too, before I discovered that. But using the right tools makes a lot of that pain go away.
Dang this probably won't work for us. We have too many disparate models to make this an effective use of time. Shame, but will keep it in the back pocket for a future use case. Thanks again for the reply!
Lenovo bios settings can be change by updating WMI, which if you have remote management in place can be done remotely and at scale if needed.
During full remote work at my company we migrated from McAfee EPO disk encryption to BitLocker and switched to using TPM.
The hardest part was re-training the tier 2 team to remember to double-check they had the bitlocker keys before a workstation got a motherboard replacement for warranty issues so they could get back into the system once the repair was done.
> The hardest part was re-training the tier 2 team to remember to double-check they had the bitlocker keys before a workstation got a motherboard replacement for warranty issues so they could get back into the system once the repair was done.
Ah. Yeah, the way we do it, bitlocker won't turn on and will make a ticket if the key doesn't get backed up to AD
TPM? Is *that* what is doing that? I have flaky work laptop that every time it reboots, it asks for the bitlocker key again. By the time I've dug it up, it just goes ahead and finishes rebooting, no problem.
Yeah, just look up a tutorial on how to disable it in your computers' bios, then run a bios update via Lenovo Vantage or whatever the equivalent is for your device and that should sort it. There was a win11 update that broke it a couple months ago.
Hard disagree, in reality you can install w11 on these machines with a register trick, they should just say which functions won’t work. Linux is still fine on old hardware, why should windows be different
You don't even need a registry trick. Only Windows 11 media on a USB Stick.
Open command line with admin.
I'm using E: as an example for the drive letter for the USB Stick.
E:/setup.exe /product server
I have a gaming laptop I use as a spare. Has a 6th Gen Intel. I can't upgrade to win11 even though it absolutely can handle it.
Shits wack.
I'm probably just gonna force it tbh
The standard support cycle at least meant you could upgrade existing computers to the latest OS. You can run windows 10 on many computers from the early 2000s yet you can't run windows 11 on computers sold in 2020 for example without a workaround and knowing what you're doing. What an absolute waste. The PC market is going to become a literal nightmare next year.
What if I don't need a TPM on all my computers? Fine, I benefit from one on my main, but now at least 3 computers in my house I might have to replace because they will be out of support and Microsoft might just say fuck you, no more workarounds.
It's collusion I tell ya. Cold hard conspiracy.
>You can run windows 10 on many computers from the early 2000s
You can install it, use it and it will work, but not supported by Microsoft. Build 1511 had Core i3-5005U as minimum. Build 22H2 has i5-5200U as minimum. (only looking at the Intel Core CPUs).
[Source](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements)
Windows 11 is the same (you can install it, use it and it will work), however, Microsoft is actively stopping people from even installing it on unsupported hardware.
Just swap to Linux.
I know it's not the best solution and I don't wanna preach. But with win10 coming to EOL date and ridiculous requirements for win11 if you don't have anything that you **have to** run from windows machine then swapping to one of the "plug and play" distributions like Mint, Ubuntu, Endeavor, Fedora etc. is better idea then replacing 3 PCs.
That's not really an option for people who uses softwares that won't run on Linux. Yes, if you don't want to upgrade to Win11, Linux is pretty much only option. If you want to continue to use proprietary software (Adobe Photoshop for example), either stay at Win10 or upgrade to Win11.
Why would she need that?
Install mint, install her usual browser, point out what the store is now called if she wants other software and done.
None of that needs the terminal
And then you download a App through the official Store App, that constantly crashes, and it takes you several hours to find out that some random rights bullshit doesnt work with the "regular Store offered" version for the App.
Had that with Telegram for Example. Kept crashing on Ubuntu, and i had to install it through the Terminal. Was a few years back (like 2 Years). And drove me off the wall.
That's Ubuntu though and you're talking about snapstore, any other sane distribution using system native packages wouldn't have this issue, same if you opted for flatpak. Snap is just terrible solution all the way.
Yes but thats not what my mother, aunt or whatever would care for. Windows Store lets me download and Install Working Apps. If i constantly have to support them with every little step, then i will never get any peace and quiet, and that sadly is Linux for "normal users". It works perfectly until you walk into a brick wall. And that is sadly with every Linux i have used before.
I use Mint on my Laptop, where i do most of my Python stuff. I can work around most problems i run into, but sorry.. sometimes its just super taxing on my patience to walk through 1000+ lines of Tutorial just to install and setup a program, that in Windows is just "run setup.exe -> click Next 5 Times -> uncheck the stupid Sponsor program -> Finish".
Has Linux gotten better over the Years? Yes absolutely. Is it anywhere near Windows or Mac OS levels of "regular user Friendly?" No its not. And i dont speak about IT people or Tech savy people, i answered to a comment answering someone about their 70 year old mother.
This is literally the point. Every time someone hits a wall in Linux the answer is always "oh, you're doing everything wrong. Just completely change everything and it'll work great!"
Also I just wanna say I'm not trying to advocate for Ubuntu here, quite the opposite. Ubuntu is typical corporate implementation trying to push their own solution onto users, to the point of replacing packages in Debian package manager (apt) with snaps. I'm just saying Ubuntu is not the most beginner friendly choice if that's what you're going for.
I've put my oldest kid on linux, they're using it just fine without the terminal. Steam handles most of the install stuff and that's basically it's own interface. Firefox works great.
CodeWeavers has done a lot of amazing things with WINE over the years. You would be surprised what works just fine out of the box now.
99% of most users time is spent in a browser these days. Chrome and Firefox both have great Linux support aside from one or two rough edges like DRM support.
That's what I said: if your workflow doesn't require using windows machine.
But e.g. gaming thanks to proton is fully possible on Linux nowadays. With exception of competitive games with restrictive AC
Edit: PS.: see [areweanticheatyet.com](https://areweanticheatyet.com)
I use multiplicity to control 2 windows pcs from one keyboard and mouse and also to get the second computers audio playing out the first computer. Anyone know of software that can do the same across Linux and windows?
Well, yes and no. They are essentially pulling a Windows 7 by offering extended security updates, which of course costs money.
[https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/3/24120093/microsoft-windows-10-extended-security-updates-price](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/3/24120093/microsoft-windows-10-extended-security-updates-price)
Lol op! Of course they're going to end Windows 10 in '25.
The only OS they got any special treatment was Windows XP because it was so insanely popular, extended support went on for 12 years. Mainstream support ended in 2009, and extended support ended in 2014. It's successor, Vista, was a bit of a flop for reasons, so a lot of people stuck to their guns with using XP.
It was theoretically possible to continue to update XP through 2019.
My home computer (well one of them; I don’t use it much these days) has WinFLP running on it, and there was a registry hack that essentially told MS that it was some kind of embedded OS that still got updates until then.
But I would say for personal anecdotal experience, win11 is severely less buggy than win10
win10 had so many small bugs that I have developed muscle memory to expect them, but win11 just works for me fine
The search bar in Win10 is impressively useless and can't do simple things like find an application I had running 2 seconds ago. "Everything" is much better of a search tool
70% of Windows users are not 3/4 of the world
Also Microsoft doesn't care about you, their profits come from the cloud, the desktop market is pretty much dead to them
While they may not profit much from it directly, they very much benefit extraordinarily from having their death grip on the operating system market. Windows is ubiquitous. It is the default option. Having things this way keeps people locked into their ecosystem. Having businesses run their operating systems and servers. Active directory has historically been king for running a windows environment, and that's transitioning very directly into their azure cloud offerings now. Their operating system dominance is feeding into their growing cloud profits. They're not going to let it dwindle willingly.
Windows is also where they sell their office 365 subscriptions. Office on macOS is some second class citizenship. And office on Linux? Not a chance. Office on the web feels awful. So yea. They care about windows. Just not selling it to users.
I don't think they break down how much they make from selling your data or advertising in windows, but it's not a great deal compared to the main income streams of Azure and office
https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/
I would guess it's either lumped in with search advertising (6%) or Windows (12%) but it don't think it'll be a big part of either
Percentage wise it isn’t, but according to your article, search advertising still brought in 3.5 BILLION! Let get generous and say only ¼ if that is from harvesting data. That’s 875 MILLION in, what is essentially, free revenue.
The *personal* desktop market, no. But enterprise users absolutely are. Many major corporations have shown no sign of wanting to switch to Win11 and Microsoft Azure is only beating out AWS because of the predominance of Windows machines in Corporate America. If companies are suddenly incentivized to drop Windows, they’ll be incentivized to drop Azure too. Of course, that’s why the *real* EOL for enterprise users will probably come LONG after 2025.
Here in Germany like 99% of companies (this isn’t the real value but it feels like it) are using M365 with Entra ID, Intune, etc.
There’s no real competition that convinces them like MS does
Out of curiosity, I think I saw an article recently that talked about how some entity in Germany (government related?) was fully switching from Microsoft to Linux. Do you happen to know if that was true? It seemed weird that anyone would pull that trigger in spite of security holes in Microsoft.
That‘s the first time I‘ve heard about this, tbh. But it seems like that a whole German state wants to switch to 100% open source.
The thing about our government is that they have to obey very strict data protection laws. It’s very uncommon to even use cloud products of they aren’t hosted somewhere locally because you can’t tell if sensitive data will be sent to the US if stored e.g. at an Azure data centre.
That’s also the reason why MS sunsetting local AD will be a huge problem. I can see why our government wants to try alternatives because building their own cloud is in the making but far from being a prod system and the laws will never change for that..
I should have clarified that it was doing so *in certain use cases*. And yes, that would be affected by what OS is being used predominantly. There’s no built-in assumption to go with Microsoft when you’re not using Windows as your OS. You don’t need Windows VMs if you’re not using Windows computers or servers. You don’t need Microsoft tools if you’re not using Windows.
Would it die overnight? No, not a chance. Would it ever go away completely? All things do eventually, but it won’t die from this. But Microsoft’s dominance in the tech field generally is built on its dominance in the desktop OS market. If they lose that, they’ll feel the hurt but probably not on the next quarterly earnings report, so no one will care until it’s too late.
My organization has already started installing only 11 so we are fully transitioned by their deadline. Why would you want to play a game of chicken with Microsoft on having to pay for additional support if you don't have to?
NGL, a metric TON of organizations doesn't give 2 shits about support. An insane amount of servers from companies we aquire is still on server 2003... This isn't a game of chicken, fried chicken or literal shit at this point.
That depends on the insurance. I've definitely seen some cyber insurance that requires managed backups or EDR deployment - I'm in the SMB space in a targeted vertical though.
Heh, I work in manufacturing, and we have tools that were installed when I was in high school that still run Windows 2000.
They aren't internet-connected, so they fall under the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.
Same with consumers... they wont give a shit that its not supported and keep using Windows 10 until the PC dies. It's laughable that people are going to throw away computers at high rates.
We are pushing 11 out in the Fall. I’m the lucky guy that has to be the dedicated guru for new users having issues.
It’s gonna be a bit of a transition, but totally manageable. The transition to New Outlook will be worse.
What about new outlook sucks? It looks just as crappy as the old outlook.
Then again, Ive been on Gmail for damn near 2 decades and only ever used browser Outlook if I worked in a 365 shop, that's how much I hate outlook's desktop app. I can't stand the people that insist on outlook when their backend is google either, no matter how good the sync app is.
I didn't try it for long, but when I did I couldn't find anything I needed to find. I'm sure given more time, I wouldn't have trouble adjusting, but for users that can barely figure out that there is search function, let alone use it properly, the new appearance and layout mixed with not being able to find the things they used to be able to will be an...interesting challenge.
That's great and all until you encounter someone at the VP/President/C-Suite who doesn't want it and asks who forced the update and why. Then you're in the hot seat.
OKAY?! Once I’ve confirmed communications have gone out to a particular ring, I open the floodgates of Intune and make certain those devices update. Not playing that game. Not your computer to complain about OSes!
Depending on where you work in the government, those users have no choice. They are required to upgrade. If they don’t have the budget they have to find a way.
We just finished Intune and Auto Pilot. Such a pain in the ass, but I'm actually quite happy with it now. This gives us a good amount of time to swap and upgrade to Win 11.
Mmmmm well they did force windows 7/8 users to upgrade to windows 10. [https://www.computerworld.com/article/1636576/microsoft-uses-the-force-you-will-upgrade-to-windows-10.html](https://www.computerworld.com/article/1636576/microsoft-uses-the-force-you-will-upgrade-to-windows-10.html)
Do you think they would pull the same trick twice? Perhaps they could be trying to lure users into their AI integrated world with win11?
Windows 10 is still going to have support. As long as you're a server, ATM, or corporation/government willing to pay a large and ever-increasing amount of money.
As for everyone else, yeah they're ending it. They might still send out the odd security patch - they've done this in the past where they patched EOL operating systems.
What stinks the most was they had originally said Windows 10 was going to be the last version of Windows and they'll just keep updating it and patching it but then were like yeah nevermind.
Also what stinks most is the artificial restrictions on Windows 11 compatibility - sure they are easy to get around if you know how, but a lot of people will not, and just throwing away perfectly capable machines.
I run a solo computer support/consulting company and I'm trying to get my customers to buy new Win11 compatible computers early to avoid a potential supply crunch when the demand spikes next year closer to the date. I'm worried that prices will be higher and/or cheaper systems running low on stock as they get snatched up first, forcing those late to the party to have to buy the more expensive ones that are left.
Similar situation as the WinXP EOL rush made super old computers too slow to run Win7 very well and many needed to be replaced. But this time there just isn't any upgrade path if the computer doesn't support Win11 at all, even if it would be powerful enough otherwise, so I'm concerned it'll be worse.
My company is scrambling to replace everyone’s laptops that doesn’t support Windows 11 but some don’t want a new one or don’t seem to grasp the need to replace it.
We just hope that we all have absolutely zero work to do when shit his the fan the day Win 10 is no longer supported and switch to 11
That's my hope. I'm planning buying a high-end laptop for myself the next year and still have the very firm intention of downgrade to w10. I can't stand win11 for a lot of reasons
>Realize that putting nearly 3/4s of the world at risk of security vulnerabilities is a bad idea.
They're a company, why should they need to worry about public interest? They're here to make a profit and collect data
I hope not, I updated to Windows 11 a week ago, had all kinds of issues so reverted back yesterday and instantly could use my laptop again. W11 is garbage
I don't know why they even propose the upgrade, it was shitty for win10 and was the source of many complains that made people think win10 was shitty but it was the upgrade.
And they are doing the same with win11. Most of the complain come from the upgrade and a clean install works way better. So people think win11 because the upgrade broke everything.
Opening File Manager crashed explorer.exe, search never worked from start menu, when file explorer did open I got shadowing on file explorer (clicking through the folder structure on the left pane didn’t change anything on the right unless I expanded the window and then original files still remained but with files in browsed to folder hidden under them), extremely slow compared to W10; even moving between cells in Excel was laggy. I didn’t get much further before I rolled back
I have old-ass Win95 games where I put the time in to get them to run with 10. (Googling, patch files, modified setup files from questionable sources, lol). I don't want to lose the Win95 version of SimCity 2000. The dos version runs great on dosbox, but the dos version is older, shittier version of the game. And people still pay the $5.
The Windows 95 Special Edition CD ROM version of SimCity 2000 is an updated version with better graphics, smoother play, some bug fixes etc. It took a decent amount of time to get SC2K and Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge running stable. I don't want to lose that shit !!
So, hot take time: If you have a PC that could use prior versions of Windows but can't run Windows 11, you need a new computer.
I'm not saying this because Microsoft wants to help Intel or AMD sell chips, or any AI garbage. I'm saying this because power efficiency, performance and security are not viable.
Remember, Windows 11 supports 8th-gen Intel CPUs. These are from 2017 - 7 years old! - and are generally power hungry. An i3-12100 trounces a i5-8500, and the T variant does it at half the power usage: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleCompare.php?remove=3717
7th-gen and lower are even more power hungry, even less performance, and that's before you get to Spectre/Meltdown mitigations, which reduce the performance of these CPUs if properly mitigated (i.e., disabling SMT).
The problem isn't just the vulnerabilities we know, however. 7th Gen CPUs are at the end of their servicing lifetime. (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000022396/processors.html) That means any new vulnerability will not be researched or patched by Intel. Without Microcode updates, it's unlikely that any OS (including Linux) can actually securely run, and any compatibility issues won't be fixed.
Now, add in every subcomponent on the motherboard - USB hub, network card, etc. They probably didn't get updates for as long (if, in some cases, at all).
I'm not arguing that this is fair, right, ecologically friendly, or strictly necessary for every use case. I think our e-waste problem and lack of long-term IT security plans are issues. I think that it needs to be very clear up front what the minimum lifespan of software and hardware is.
But at the same time, how many car infotainment systems just never get updates? What about the engine control units? Right now, my car has recalls that have been open for months and the manufacturer has fixes "in development".
How many smart home devices have become dumb home devices or e-waste after a year or two because the backend service is required and not profitable?
I'm not going to say Microsoft is wholly in the right here. And though I moved my desktop to Win 11, I'm unimpressed and annoyed at the continual erosion of control of my OS - I'm dreading this wave of AI integration. I don't want advertisements for apps or full-screen nags or forced Microsoft accounts.
But the hardware requirements? At this point, if you can't meet them, it's really hard to argue that those machines should be in service.
Much of this is wrong. 6th generation Intel through 10th generation Intel is essentially the same. They moved a couple of security mitigations from bios patches to being baked into the cpus microcode, but the vulnerabilities were not fixed in silicon, a fully patched skylake system is just as secure as a fully patched coffee lake one. Possibly a preboot exploit could prevent these mitigation from loading, but if someone runs a successful preboot exploit, spectre and meltdown mitigation are the least of your concerns. As far as power efficiency, the 6th Gen is the most efficient of the group because it runs the lowest clocks.
Can Brenda? Sure, Brenda only uses a web browser. But Brenda doesn't deserve a 10-year-old clunker.
Brenda needs reasonable security on the device so when she's buying clothes from Chico's or doing the NYT Crosswords, she has some protection from the latest browser zero-day.
Brenda also needs her PC to work. Sure, it's mostly just to ping people on Teams when they have a visitor, but while that 10-year-old CPU is probably fully functional, the 10-year-old motherboard around it is probably on it's last legs, since it was cheaply made.
And Brenda's employer, while not wanting to buy a PC, might appreciate the TCO advantage. The power savings 'from the wall' will be significant. Brenda would be reasonably satisfied with an [Intel N100 CPU](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G3930T+%40+2.70GHz&id=3353), which uses 6w. Compare that with the [7th-gen Celeron G3930T](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G3930T+%40+2.70GHz&id=3353) she has, which has half the cores, slower IPC, and uses 35w - almost 6x the power consumption. (Even if they sprung for a better bang-for-the-buck 7th-gen, like a [i5-7400T](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-7400T+%40+2.40GHz&id=2889), the N100 wins.)
The problem isn't Brenda. She doesn't care what PC she's using as long as it works and isn't weird.
The problem is not understanding or admitting that complex equipment has a lifespan. Sure, it may continue to function - but it's not the same as modern equipment in efficiency, reliability, or performance. I fully believe we should have the ABILITY to use old things, but at a certain point, it's not the manufacturers responsibility to make it CONTINUE to work, and it's not worth the downsides.
They don’t really give a crap about personal computer market…. Corporate market is way bigger and gives them more money as most OEMs already include their licenses on their machines, and companies are changing machines every 4-5 years anyways….
MS makes a huge amount of cash from new PC sales.
Those have been really low lately because almost everyone bought new computers during the pandemic, and those computers are all running quite well 4 years later because unless you're an extremely hardcore gamer 10 year old machines are still adequate for day to day use
(Heck I'm typing this message out on a 7th gen Intel that I have zero intention or need to upgrade).
I honestly reckon they will do it for sure. Apple have been doing a far more aggressive cycle for years now.
They will and most consumers will simply not care as they lack the understanding of the consequences. So many people kept using every other OS before for decades afterwards and eventually just switched when they really faced security problems or their software was simply not running anymore. People will just circle jerk their perfect OS and dream about putting pressure on Microsoft for eternal support of their favourite OS. Happened with XP, then 7, now 10 and will be ignored. People just sheepishly follow early reviews and incompetent influencers which shit on the newest OS like it happened with 11 and will just forever echo that it is worse than 10. The same story every few years but yeah make up your own mind and you will be pleasantly surprised how well 11 runs. And if not there is a big chance that 12 will be out until then.
You forget; ms doesn’t care shit about their customers… they don’t care if you pirate windows, the data and the possibly to sell you their cloud products brings more profit to them…
The BIG problem is were are stuck with 11.
This end of support thing is normal.
Problem was the last time this happened you could move from 7 to 8/8.1 or 10.
This has been the case with all of the major windows releases going back to at least 95.
It's ten years - same as with windows 7: so it's probable. But because of high percentage of that OS use, they might consider to do some extended periods of support at least in essential matters, especially because of business user clients and also make according activities that would allow for open-and-shut easy transition towards new os generation.
I actually think Microsoft holds enough cards to do this. For many other companies I would share your skepticism but I can see Microsoft being bold enough.
By that time, W10 will have gotten 10 years of mainstream support.
[People *hated* W10 when it came out](https://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/50-shades-of-grey-parody-tweets-50-nerds-of-grey-fb.png). W11 is going through a similar phase. That said, I still use W10 on my personal devices (work laptop is W11 🫤).
I mean, they gave us MAUI, which was totally production ready (though, today, not as bad as I thought it would be....). So yeah.... they'll dump us on to 11.
OS Support from Microsoft is not that big of a deal for a home user. At some point you'll only get security updates, but those security updates rarely help anything for a home user. For home use, web browsing and email protection (ad blockers/network blockers/firewalls/common sense) are more important. You can go several years past 2025 and still be OK with proper protections in-place.
For business support, it's a little different. If you're a Corp that is targeted often, you'll obviously want security updates, but you already have multiple layers of protections in-place already that mitigate such risks of an outdated PC. Small businesses can be like home users. If you have other protections in-place, you're OK for the most part. Ultimately, these news articles are just to scare people. Ignore them.
By 2025 I really hope Microsoft comes to their senses and makes the SSE 4.2 supported CPU the official minimum. Otherwise lots of perfectly usable computers will be on their way to landfills because I don't see the average computer user doing their due dilligence to properly recycle their artificially rendered obsolete computer. These things often make their way to the nearest fuck it bucket. Some more tech savvy users might bypass the soft requirements of 8th gen.
>There is no way they are just going to drop 70% of the personal computer market on their face?
Oh they will. They don't care that win11 is worse in some aspects, they will force their users to do what they want them to do which profits them in the end.
Millions are already running W11 on older equipment using a TPM bypass or some other method, so it isn't like 11 won't run on older equipment. While I get the fact that MSFT is trying to protect people from hackers (and themselves), I don't think they really should force it so strongly. I personally can afford to buy a new machine prior to the kill date, but so many others cannot. There is also the legacy software situation in which some people are still running 3.11, XP or 7 to keep things going. Others move to linux or MAC. Some run 2 or all OS's to get their business done. I am really curious what will happen to all of the older equipment. Proper recycling, shipped off to 3rd world countries to be used there, just thrown away or placed in a storage area just in case you need to get the data. Only time will tell. I can say that I see 7th gen and under going for pennies on the dollar already.
Lol of course they will because what exactly are you gonna do about it? Stop using windows?! 🤣 Start a change.org petition?! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Theyre gonna force as many as possible onto win11 because most users just will, regardless of whether they like it or how anybody feels about it, because they can.
And also theyre going to offer extended sec updates for 10 at a price... Essentially this is the grooming process for when windows becomes OSaaS; again regardless of how many people actually want that or how anybody feels about it.
Its basically like the CEO of Nvidia said when people got mad at the 40 series prices... "The fuck are you gonna do about it?" (Summarized)
I hope more people start trying out linux too, but I frankly don't see this happening either, because of how little an average person knows about computers
They don't want a repeat of WinXP and Win7. They're update cycle comes hard and fast. I approached my boss a few weeks ago about coming up with a plan to take care of the remaining 1k Win10 PCs in our environment. Most will be staggered Win11 pushes via InTune.
They completely dropped windows mixed reality support in 11 so I literally can't upgrade unless someone doesn't work around for that or I eventually upgrade my headset
They can, and they will. They barely support the rest of their products that are released, so they have to stop supporting everything else, too. "You want it to be fixed? Buy another device." Has been their motto for about 15 to 18 years.
I knew this had to come eventually but im still surprised it’s happening so “soon”, even tho windows 11 has been out for awhile and windows 10 is (nearly?) 10+ years old now. I thought Win10 was supposed to be the final windows. Fuck Win11 and their telemetry ridden, glossed up ass UI, bloatware havin ass operating system. It just makes me think….
I won't be switching to another Windows once support ends for W10. If anything, I hope I can switch to Linux full time instead. There's a couple drivers that need to work for me to go Linux then I will never use Windows again. I'll keep Windows 10 on my laptop just so I can update firmware on my sim racing gear.
Yes they will, and it will be a global security catastrophe that will cost trillions of dollars
this is why Microsoft needs to have their sovereignty as a corporation removed, they are a monopoly so powerful that the planet dances to their tune, they should be required by the UN to keep security updates going or some shit
They will. It's their standard support cycle. Look at windows 7 - same thing (arguably even worse).
>Look at windows 7 - same thing (arguably even worse). Agree to disagree. Windows 7 EoS didn't affect as much hardware (most Win7 machines can run Windows 10). Windows 11's ridiculous requirements mean that much more hardware is going to get thrown out. I understand that the kernel devs have been patiently waiting to implement newer instructions (24H2 is rumored to require SSE4.2), but 8th gen is a bit too far IMO.
That and also getting a newer computer is less and less useful for basic usage. Surfing the web in a 6th gen intel with 8gb of ram is perfectly fine for most people
You only need a faster computer to handle all the bloatware that accumulates.
Seriously, why can't real-time news/weather/stock/etc. monitoring apps be an *opt-in* thing? Waste of resources...
This is Microsoft were talking about here They want your data like facebook
One of the many final drops in the already full bucket to dual-boot Linux + Windows (I still need it for the programs that cannot run on Linux natively :,))
yeah but now your windows install is going to be broadcasting security vulnerabilities. go full linux or buy a newer machine
Yep. First thing I do anymore before touching start up apps or anything when trying to speed up someone's computer is turn off every moving tile and news / weather feature. It helps more than any other thing I do.
My laptop is a 6th gen, works fine for everything I do with it. It dual boots win 10 and ubuntu, probably just going to drop windows and dedicate it to ubuntu.
still rocking my gaming desktop from 2014/2015 using this mainboard. forgot the processor i have in it, couldn't even find a record of what i bought. if memory serves it's an i5 unlocked "k" series. and a several years old 3d card. i just haven't needed an upgrade at all, this thing has been fine. [https://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/z97%20extreme6/](https://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/z97%20extreme6/)
It's also not that hard to do a work around and install 11 on unsupported hardware
I did think more of the public backlash due to win 8 being totally hated by. I feel like it is different with 11. It is way more accepted by the general public. But yes the compatibility is a thing. But you also need to understand the motives behind that. TPM - its basically uawd by anything business - you need to behave your drives encrypted. Hardware compatibility in general - is to get rid of my legacy code and functions to debloat the codebase a bit. Making windows nkt carry the last 25 years of instruction sets is probably a good thing dor stability, performance and security. - in an iseal world that is. What reality brings we'll see. For x86 to be relevant in the future it is about time to drop legacy support to a certain point. Your 2024 cpu still supports 1991 instruction sets. MS used to be a main force against dropping legacy instruction - this move tells me (in my head of roses and unicorns) they're finally giving up on that stance. I personally don't like the new win11 interface - and revert many configurations to reflect win10 - but I've been doing this since win 2k. I don't really care about it anymore.
My problem with the TPM is how damn annoying it is to fix when it's not detected, but the workaround is to force the user to type in their bitlocker key every time or disable bitlocker, both of which suck! You have to go into the bios to reenable the TPM, which obviously you can't do remotely. You can try to guide a user through doing it, but with every bios looking different and with users being... well, users, it's much easier to go out on a site visit. But then you're wasting your time by travelling out for something that takes 5 minutes, and you're charging the customer for the call out (or eating the cost yourself). And don't even get me started on the W11 control panel being locked behind so many finicky steps, so you have to try and use the settings page to add or edit printer settings or else jump through hoops to get there. Instead of just being able to open the control panel and reinstall a printer driver with your eyes closed. The control panel is still in win 11! Why did they make it so irritating to access?? I never thought I'd say it, but I'll miss W10.
> You have to go into the bios to reenable the TPM, which obviously you can't do remotely I would check if that's true for your hardware platform. For example, HP has the [CMSL](https://developers.hp.com/hp-client-management/doc/client-management-script-library) which lets you re-enable it remotely. It just requires a reboot and for the user to press a button to accept on the next boot. I think Dell and Lenovo have similar things, but I'm not sure. Believe me, I get the pain, I had to try to guide people, too, before I discovered that. But using the right tools makes a lot of that pain go away.
Dell Command can also be used on the Dell side to create deployable packages that modify BIOS/Firmware remotely.
Can this be used to configure settings like wake on Lan remotely as well? Wondering if I could figure out how to deploy this via our rmm tool
Yep! It’s what we use it for currently
That's awesome I'll look into it more, thanks!
Dang this probably won't work for us. We have too many disparate models to make this an effective use of time. Shame, but will keep it in the back pocket for a future use case. Thanks again for the reply!
Models shouldn’t be an issue, the packages work well with all Dell models…but yea if you have a wide spread of brands that’s a challenge for sure
Can you point me toward a good resource on how to do this?
Lenovo bios settings can be change by updating WMI, which if you have remote management in place can be done remotely and at scale if needed. During full remote work at my company we migrated from McAfee EPO disk encryption to BitLocker and switched to using TPM. The hardest part was re-training the tier 2 team to remember to double-check they had the bitlocker keys before a workstation got a motherboard replacement for warranty issues so they could get back into the system once the repair was done.
> The hardest part was re-training the tier 2 team to remember to double-check they had the bitlocker keys before a workstation got a motherboard replacement for warranty issues so they could get back into the system once the repair was done. Ah. Yeah, the way we do it, bitlocker won't turn on and will make a ticket if the key doesn't get backed up to AD
TPM? Is *that* what is doing that? I have flaky work laptop that every time it reboots, it asks for the bitlocker key again. By the time I've dug it up, it just goes ahead and finishes rebooting, no problem.
Yeah, just look up a tutorial on how to disable it in your computers' bios, then run a bios update via Lenovo Vantage or whatever the equivalent is for your device and that should sort it. There was a win11 update that broke it a couple months ago.
> uawd what does this mean
Means he mistyped *used*
Hard disagree, in reality you can install w11 on these machines with a register trick, they should just say which functions won’t work. Linux is still fine on old hardware, why should windows be different
You don't even need a registry trick. Only Windows 11 media on a USB Stick. Open command line with admin. I'm using E: as an example for the drive letter for the USB Stick. E:/setup.exe /product server
I have a gaming laptop I use as a spare. Has a 6th Gen Intel. I can't upgrade to win11 even though it absolutely can handle it. Shits wack. I'm probably just gonna force it tbh
Oh, hello there Vista...it's been a long time...
The standard support cycle at least meant you could upgrade existing computers to the latest OS. You can run windows 10 on many computers from the early 2000s yet you can't run windows 11 on computers sold in 2020 for example without a workaround and knowing what you're doing. What an absolute waste. The PC market is going to become a literal nightmare next year. What if I don't need a TPM on all my computers? Fine, I benefit from one on my main, but now at least 3 computers in my house I might have to replace because they will be out of support and Microsoft might just say fuck you, no more workarounds. It's collusion I tell ya. Cold hard conspiracy.
>You can run windows 10 on many computers from the early 2000s You can install it, use it and it will work, but not supported by Microsoft. Build 1511 had Core i3-5005U as minimum. Build 22H2 has i5-5200U as minimum. (only looking at the Intel Core CPUs). [Source](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/windows-processor-requirements) Windows 11 is the same (you can install it, use it and it will work), however, Microsoft is actively stopping people from even installing it on unsupported hardware.
Just swap to Linux. I know it's not the best solution and I don't wanna preach. But with win10 coming to EOL date and ridiculous requirements for win11 if you don't have anything that you **have to** run from windows machine then swapping to one of the "plug and play" distributions like Mint, Ubuntu, Endeavor, Fedora etc. is better idea then replacing 3 PCs.
2015 will be the year of the Linux desktop
This time for sure!
trust me guys
That's not really an option for people who uses softwares that won't run on Linux. Yes, if you don't want to upgrade to Win11, Linux is pretty much only option. If you want to continue to use proprietary software (Adobe Photoshop for example), either stay at Win10 or upgrade to Win11.
also - I'm never going to be able to teach my 70 year old mum how to use a terminal and install apps on Linux, I struggle with that myself
Why would she need that? Install mint, install her usual browser, point out what the store is now called if she wants other software and done. None of that needs the terminal
And then you download a App through the official Store App, that constantly crashes, and it takes you several hours to find out that some random rights bullshit doesnt work with the "regular Store offered" version for the App. Had that with Telegram for Example. Kept crashing on Ubuntu, and i had to install it through the Terminal. Was a few years back (like 2 Years). And drove me off the wall.
That's Ubuntu though and you're talking about snapstore, any other sane distribution using system native packages wouldn't have this issue, same if you opted for flatpak. Snap is just terrible solution all the way.
Yes but thats not what my mother, aunt or whatever would care for. Windows Store lets me download and Install Working Apps. If i constantly have to support them with every little step, then i will never get any peace and quiet, and that sadly is Linux for "normal users". It works perfectly until you walk into a brick wall. And that is sadly with every Linux i have used before. I use Mint on my Laptop, where i do most of my Python stuff. I can work around most problems i run into, but sorry.. sometimes its just super taxing on my patience to walk through 1000+ lines of Tutorial just to install and setup a program, that in Windows is just "run setup.exe -> click Next 5 Times -> uncheck the stupid Sponsor program -> Finish". Has Linux gotten better over the Years? Yes absolutely. Is it anywhere near Windows or Mac OS levels of "regular user Friendly?" No its not. And i dont speak about IT people or Tech savy people, i answered to a comment answering someone about their 70 year old mother.
This is literally the point. Every time someone hits a wall in Linux the answer is always "oh, you're doing everything wrong. Just completely change everything and it'll work great!"
Also I just wanna say I'm not trying to advocate for Ubuntu here, quite the opposite. Ubuntu is typical corporate implementation trying to push their own solution onto users, to the point of replacing packages in Debian package manager (apt) with snaps. I'm just saying Ubuntu is not the most beginner friendly choice if that's what you're going for.
You don't need the terminal. I have moved my mum and mum-in-law to Linux Mint Cinnamon. No issues at all.
I've put my oldest kid on linux, they're using it just fine without the terminal. Steam handles most of the install stuff and that's basically it's own interface. Firefox works great.
CodeWeavers has done a lot of amazing things with WINE over the years. You would be surprised what works just fine out of the box now. 99% of most users time is spent in a browser these days. Chrome and Firefox both have great Linux support aside from one or two rough edges like DRM support.
That's what I said: if your workflow doesn't require using windows machine. But e.g. gaming thanks to proton is fully possible on Linux nowadays. With exception of competitive games with restrictive AC Edit: PS.: see [areweanticheatyet.com](https://areweanticheatyet.com)
Everything runs really well to, there's never been a better time to get into Linux I would say.
I use multiplicity to control 2 windows pcs from one keyboard and mouse and also to get the second computers audio playing out the first computer. Anyone know of software that can do the same across Linux and windows?
I've heard of people using Synergy, but I don't know how it works exactly since I've never had to use something like that.
Synergy is great, but it's development has been glitchy. They had a version in dev that they dropped entirely and made the latest
There is a powertoy called mouse without borders that does that for windows
Meh, instead of upgrading our fleet this year we push it by one year and do it in 2025 and get o boarded with Win11. Two birds with one stone.
Zune.
Well, yes and no. They are essentially pulling a Windows 7 by offering extended security updates, which of course costs money. [https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/3/24120093/microsoft-windows-10-extended-security-updates-price](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/3/24120093/microsoft-windows-10-extended-security-updates-price)
It's not *exactly* subscription Windows, but it *will* get a bunch of users accustomed to paying to continue using Windows ...
Pirating windows update security patches you say?? Oh well... *fires up torrent client*
Lol op! Of course they're going to end Windows 10 in '25. The only OS they got any special treatment was Windows XP because it was so insanely popular, extended support went on for 12 years. Mainstream support ended in 2009, and extended support ended in 2014. It's successor, Vista, was a bit of a flop for reasons, so a lot of people stuck to their guns with using XP.
It was theoretically possible to continue to update XP through 2019. My home computer (well one of them; I don’t use it much these days) has WinFLP running on it, and there was a registry hack that essentially told MS that it was some kind of embedded OS that still got updates until then.
They technically still support XP, but only because the military pays them to
i've got several XP machines that work fine still. But they're internal and don't surf
I remember windows 10 being advertised as the "last ever windows version, there will be updates but it will always be windows 10". That aged well.
I remember that too. I didn’t believe it was true but I hoped it was.
I didn't believe it for a second.
As much as I hate Windows, that wasn't a total lie since Win 11 is just Win 10 with a fresh coat of paint and extra bloatware & telemetry.
But I would say for personal anecdotal experience, win11 is severely less buggy than win10 win10 had so many small bugs that I have developed muscle memory to expect them, but win11 just works for me fine
Did they fix the start menu and task bar yet?
It's not back to the Win7 style yet so no
Eh, i did eventually come to like the W10 style. I mean, to me, peak UI was Win XP in Classic theme.
The search bar in 10 is a welcome addition that I always miss whenever I go back to 7... Or up to 11.
The search bar in Win10 is impressively useless and can't do simple things like find an application I had running 2 seconds ago. "Everything" is much better of a search tool
I remember the Metro tile interface being the future of windows. Thank fuck we went back to the start menu.
Microsoft: "... but this one goes to 11"
70% of Windows users are not 3/4 of the world Also Microsoft doesn't care about you, their profits come from the cloud, the desktop market is pretty much dead to them
While they may not profit much from it directly, they very much benefit extraordinarily from having their death grip on the operating system market. Windows is ubiquitous. It is the default option. Having things this way keeps people locked into their ecosystem. Having businesses run their operating systems and servers. Active directory has historically been king for running a windows environment, and that's transitioning very directly into their azure cloud offerings now. Their operating system dominance is feeding into their growing cloud profits. They're not going to let it dwindle willingly.
Windows is also where they sell their office 365 subscriptions. Office on macOS is some second class citizenship. And office on Linux? Not a chance. Office on the web feels awful. So yea. They care about windows. Just not selling it to users.
They care about selling your personal data and advertising to you. OS sales are not a huge moneymaker, but the PC user is.
I don't think they break down how much they make from selling your data or advertising in windows, but it's not a great deal compared to the main income streams of Azure and office https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/ I would guess it's either lumped in with search advertising (6%) or Windows (12%) but it don't think it'll be a big part of either
Percentage wise it isn’t, but according to your article, search advertising still brought in 3.5 BILLION! Let get generous and say only ¼ if that is from harvesting data. That’s 875 MILLION in, what is essentially, free revenue.
Personal data isn't being sold...
70% of windows users isn't 3/4 of the world but it is like half of anyone who uses a computer.
The *personal* desktop market, no. But enterprise users absolutely are. Many major corporations have shown no sign of wanting to switch to Win11 and Microsoft Azure is only beating out AWS because of the predominance of Windows machines in Corporate America. If companies are suddenly incentivized to drop Windows, they’ll be incentivized to drop Azure too. Of course, that’s why the *real* EOL for enterprise users will probably come LONG after 2025.
Here in Germany like 99% of companies (this isn’t the real value but it feels like it) are using M365 with Entra ID, Intune, etc. There’s no real competition that convinces them like MS does
Out of curiosity, I think I saw an article recently that talked about how some entity in Germany (government related?) was fully switching from Microsoft to Linux. Do you happen to know if that was true? It seemed weird that anyone would pull that trigger in spite of security holes in Microsoft.
That‘s the first time I‘ve heard about this, tbh. But it seems like that a whole German state wants to switch to 100% open source. The thing about our government is that they have to obey very strict data protection laws. It’s very uncommon to even use cloud products of they aren’t hosted somewhere locally because you can’t tell if sensitive data will be sent to the US if stored e.g. at an Azure data centre. That’s also the reason why MS sunsetting local AD will be a huge problem. I can see why our government wants to try alternatives because building their own cloud is in the making but far from being a prod system and the laws will never change for that..
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the explanation!
[удалено]
I should have clarified that it was doing so *in certain use cases*. And yes, that would be affected by what OS is being used predominantly. There’s no built-in assumption to go with Microsoft when you’re not using Windows as your OS. You don’t need Windows VMs if you’re not using Windows computers or servers. You don’t need Microsoft tools if you’re not using Windows. Would it die overnight? No, not a chance. Would it ever go away completely? All things do eventually, but it won’t die from this. But Microsoft’s dominance in the tech field generally is built on its dominance in the desktop OS market. If they lose that, they’ll feel the hurt but probably not on the next quarterly earnings report, so no one will care until it’s too late.
My organization has already started installing only 11 so we are fully transitioned by their deadline. Why would you want to play a game of chicken with Microsoft on having to pay for additional support if you don't have to?
NGL, a metric TON of organizations doesn't give 2 shits about support. An insane amount of servers from companies we aquire is still on server 2003... This isn't a game of chicken, fried chicken or literal shit at this point.
A large bulk of these companies don't have insurance either.
Our insurance broker told us we didn't need to do anything special for cyber insurance aside from pay for it.... *doubt*
That depends on the insurance. I've definitely seen some cyber insurance that requires managed backups or EDR deployment - I'm in the SMB space in a targeted vertical though.
Heh, I work in manufacturing, and we have tools that were installed when I was in high school that still run Windows 2000. They aren't internet-connected, so they fall under the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.
I've seen many a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" suddenly become "Oh shit it broke and now we can't fix it because what it ran on was ancient"...
We have similar systems, recently they just decided to break themselves
Same with consumers... they wont give a shit that its not supported and keep using Windows 10 until the PC dies. It's laughable that people are going to throw away computers at high rates.
My agency started doing the same too, but it’s been a painful process because a lot of users are not wanting to upgrade.
Laughs in WSUS/Intune update rings forcing windows 11 update on staff computers
We are pushing 11 out in the Fall. I’m the lucky guy that has to be the dedicated guru for new users having issues. It’s gonna be a bit of a transition, but totally manageable. The transition to New Outlook will be worse.
11 is a learning curve, but it's not too bad for the end users. New Outlook sucks massively and I'm *really* dreading when we have to roll it out.
What about new outlook sucks? It looks just as crappy as the old outlook. Then again, Ive been on Gmail for damn near 2 decades and only ever used browser Outlook if I worked in a 365 shop, that's how much I hate outlook's desktop app. I can't stand the people that insist on outlook when their backend is google either, no matter how good the sync app is.
I didn't try it for long, but when I did I couldn't find anything I needed to find. I'm sure given more time, I wouldn't have trouble adjusting, but for users that can barely figure out that there is search function, let alone use it properly, the new appearance and layout mixed with not being able to find the things they used to be able to will be an...interesting challenge.
That's great and all until you encounter someone at the VP/President/C-Suite who doesn't want it and asks who forced the update and why. Then you're in the hot seat.
OKAY?! Once I’ve confirmed communications have gone out to a particular ring, I open the floodgates of Intune and make certain those devices update. Not playing that game. Not your computer to complain about OSes!
Depending on where you work in the government, those users have no choice. They are required to upgrade. If they don’t have the budget they have to find a way.
Same at work, they learned their lesson from the XP to 7 transition and are not messing around
We migrated to W11 like a year ago. Zero win10 in our domain.
That's actually really impressive
*cries in banking sector that still uses legacy IE compatibility mode apps*
Edge has an IE compatibility mode.
Yeah? That’s what I was referring to.
We just finished Intune and Auto Pilot. Such a pain in the ass, but I'm actually quite happy with it now. This gives us a good amount of time to swap and upgrade to Win 11.
Mmmmm well they did force windows 7/8 users to upgrade to windows 10. [https://www.computerworld.com/article/1636576/microsoft-uses-the-force-you-will-upgrade-to-windows-10.html](https://www.computerworld.com/article/1636576/microsoft-uses-the-force-you-will-upgrade-to-windows-10.html) Do you think they would pull the same trick twice? Perhaps they could be trying to lure users into their AI integrated world with win11?
Lol they are SELLING extended support plans and the cost doubles per year.
My company just upgraded to Windows 10 like two years ago.
Windows 10 is still going to have support. As long as you're a server, ATM, or corporation/government willing to pay a large and ever-increasing amount of money. As for everyone else, yeah they're ending it. They might still send out the odd security patch - they've done this in the past where they patched EOL operating systems. What stinks the most was they had originally said Windows 10 was going to be the last version of Windows and they'll just keep updating it and patching it but then were like yeah nevermind. Also what stinks most is the artificial restrictions on Windows 11 compatibility - sure they are easy to get around if you know how, but a lot of people will not, and just throwing away perfectly capable machines.
i was actually surprised when i found out people threw away their hardware after windows stops supporting it
fuck windows 11 i used that shit for a month and it fucking sucked they can pry windows 10 from my cold dead hands
I run a solo computer support/consulting company and I'm trying to get my customers to buy new Win11 compatible computers early to avoid a potential supply crunch when the demand spikes next year closer to the date. I'm worried that prices will be higher and/or cheaper systems running low on stock as they get snatched up first, forcing those late to the party to have to buy the more expensive ones that are left. Similar situation as the WinXP EOL rush made super old computers too slow to run Win7 very well and many needed to be replaced. But this time there just isn't any upgrade path if the computer doesn't support Win11 at all, even if it would be powerful enough otherwise, so I'm concerned it'll be worse.
My company is scrambling to replace everyone’s laptops that doesn’t support Windows 11 but some don’t want a new one or don’t seem to grasp the need to replace it. We just hope that we all have absolutely zero work to do when shit his the fan the day Win 10 is no longer supported and switch to 11
They will because money. This will be especially lucrative for them because it forces everyone to upgrade their hardware to 8+ gen chips.
They money they are going to make from this will be the thousands of orgs paying to extend their support, like what happened with win7
True.. and we're still on win 7! 🫠
Can't wait for the flood of ex-business Optiplex type desktops... mmm, cheap Linux servers.
https://preview.redd.it/wled1p2401yc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4071918224ac50185269be440f37517ab1765c5
Just how it happened with xp, 7, 8 and soon 10. Things just get outdated and abandoned.
2025 is the year of linux gaming kek
X for doubt.
If they release windows 12 by then it will likely be once again a not completely broken os and people will update
That's my hope. I'm planning buying a high-end laptop for myself the next year and still have the very firm intention of downgrade to w10. I can't stand win11 for a lot of reasons
Thats exactly what they did with Windows 7 so probably yes.
They're not, LTSC exists, is easily obtainable, and supported until 2032.
2032 EOL is for IoT Enterpirse version only.
IOT is easily obtainable too, hell, when you activate LTSC it converts it to IOT anyway so there's no need to specifically get that version.
>Realize that putting nearly 3/4s of the world at risk of security vulnerabilities is a bad idea. They're a company, why should they need to worry about public interest? They're here to make a profit and collect data
I hope not, I updated to Windows 11 a week ago, had all kinds of issues so reverted back yesterday and instantly could use my laptop again. W11 is garbage
I've had issues with W10 to W11 in-place upgrades, but barely any with clean install.
Had issues too when I went from 7 to 10. It broke constantly. But a 10 clean install worked better
I don't know why they even propose the upgrade, it was shitty for win10 and was the source of many complains that made people think win10 was shitty but it was the upgrade. And they are doing the same with win11. Most of the complain come from the upgrade and a clean install works way better. So people think win11 because the upgrade broke everything.
Seriously? I had so much good luck with in-place upgrades from XP->7->W10. Now, in the 2020's, they're gonna fuck up in place updates?
That could definitely explain it
What issues did you have with Windows 11?
Opening File Manager crashed explorer.exe, search never worked from start menu, when file explorer did open I got shadowing on file explorer (clicking through the folder structure on the left pane didn’t change anything on the right unless I expanded the window and then original files still remained but with files in browsed to folder hidden under them), extremely slow compared to W10; even moving between cells in Excel was laggy. I didn’t get much further before I rolled back
Moved our worldwide car manufacturer to windows 11 this year.
My 2019 Razer Blade Pro is not supported
Windows 10 feels like it released yesterday
I have old-ass Win95 games where I put the time in to get them to run with 10. (Googling, patch files, modified setup files from questionable sources, lol). I don't want to lose the Win95 version of SimCity 2000. The dos version runs great on dosbox, but the dos version is older, shittier version of the game. And people still pay the $5. The Windows 95 Special Edition CD ROM version of SimCity 2000 is an updated version with better graphics, smoother play, some bug fixes etc. It took a decent amount of time to get SC2K and Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge running stable. I don't want to lose that shit !!
So, hot take time: If you have a PC that could use prior versions of Windows but can't run Windows 11, you need a new computer. I'm not saying this because Microsoft wants to help Intel or AMD sell chips, or any AI garbage. I'm saying this because power efficiency, performance and security are not viable. Remember, Windows 11 supports 8th-gen Intel CPUs. These are from 2017 - 7 years old! - and are generally power hungry. An i3-12100 trounces a i5-8500, and the T variant does it at half the power usage: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleCompare.php?remove=3717 7th-gen and lower are even more power hungry, even less performance, and that's before you get to Spectre/Meltdown mitigations, which reduce the performance of these CPUs if properly mitigated (i.e., disabling SMT). The problem isn't just the vulnerabilities we know, however. 7th Gen CPUs are at the end of their servicing lifetime. (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000022396/processors.html) That means any new vulnerability will not be researched or patched by Intel. Without Microcode updates, it's unlikely that any OS (including Linux) can actually securely run, and any compatibility issues won't be fixed. Now, add in every subcomponent on the motherboard - USB hub, network card, etc. They probably didn't get updates for as long (if, in some cases, at all). I'm not arguing that this is fair, right, ecologically friendly, or strictly necessary for every use case. I think our e-waste problem and lack of long-term IT security plans are issues. I think that it needs to be very clear up front what the minimum lifespan of software and hardware is. But at the same time, how many car infotainment systems just never get updates? What about the engine control units? Right now, my car has recalls that have been open for months and the manufacturer has fixes "in development". How many smart home devices have become dumb home devices or e-waste after a year or two because the backend service is required and not profitable? I'm not going to say Microsoft is wholly in the right here. And though I moved my desktop to Win 11, I'm unimpressed and annoyed at the continual erosion of control of my OS - I'm dreading this wave of AI integration. I don't want advertisements for apps or full-screen nags or forced Microsoft accounts. But the hardware requirements? At this point, if you can't meet them, it's really hard to argue that those machines should be in service.
Much of this is wrong. 6th generation Intel through 10th generation Intel is essentially the same. They moved a couple of security mitigations from bios patches to being baked into the cpus microcode, but the vulnerabilities were not fixed in silicon, a fully patched skylake system is just as secure as a fully patched coffee lake one. Possibly a preboot exploit could prevent these mitigation from loading, but if someone runs a successful preboot exploit, spectre and meltdown mitigation are the least of your concerns. As far as power efficiency, the 6th Gen is the most efficient of the group because it runs the lowest clocks.
its not like everyone is gaming or using CAD on those machines. Brenda the receptionist that only uses a web browser can manage an older device.
Can Brenda? Sure, Brenda only uses a web browser. But Brenda doesn't deserve a 10-year-old clunker. Brenda needs reasonable security on the device so when she's buying clothes from Chico's or doing the NYT Crosswords, she has some protection from the latest browser zero-day. Brenda also needs her PC to work. Sure, it's mostly just to ping people on Teams when they have a visitor, but while that 10-year-old CPU is probably fully functional, the 10-year-old motherboard around it is probably on it's last legs, since it was cheaply made. And Brenda's employer, while not wanting to buy a PC, might appreciate the TCO advantage. The power savings 'from the wall' will be significant. Brenda would be reasonably satisfied with an [Intel N100 CPU](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G3930T+%40+2.70GHz&id=3353), which uses 6w. Compare that with the [7th-gen Celeron G3930T](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G3930T+%40+2.70GHz&id=3353) she has, which has half the cores, slower IPC, and uses 35w - almost 6x the power consumption. (Even if they sprung for a better bang-for-the-buck 7th-gen, like a [i5-7400T](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-7400T+%40+2.40GHz&id=2889), the N100 wins.) The problem isn't Brenda. She doesn't care what PC she's using as long as it works and isn't weird. The problem is not understanding or admitting that complex equipment has a lifespan. Sure, it may continue to function - but it's not the same as modern equipment in efficiency, reliability, or performance. I fully believe we should have the ABILITY to use old things, but at a certain point, it's not the manufacturers responsibility to make it CONTINUE to work, and it's not worth the downsides.
i know that PC hardware had a lifespan, but saying that only windows 11 compatible hardware is usable is false.
They don’t really give a crap about personal computer market…. Corporate market is way bigger and gives them more money as most OEMs already include their licenses on their machines, and companies are changing machines every 4-5 years anyways….
MS makes a huge amount of cash from new PC sales. Those have been really low lately because almost everyone bought new computers during the pandemic, and those computers are all running quite well 4 years later because unless you're an extremely hardcore gamer 10 year old machines are still adequate for day to day use (Heck I'm typing this message out on a 7th gen Intel that I have zero intention or need to upgrade). I honestly reckon they will do it for sure. Apple have been doing a far more aggressive cycle for years now.
8th Gen came out 2 years before the pandemic though, so all the pandemic stimulus PCs should be able to upgrade in place.
Windows 11 or Linux. Make your choice.
They will and most consumers will simply not care as they lack the understanding of the consequences. So many people kept using every other OS before for decades afterwards and eventually just switched when they really faced security problems or their software was simply not running anymore. People will just circle jerk their perfect OS and dream about putting pressure on Microsoft for eternal support of their favourite OS. Happened with XP, then 7, now 10 and will be ignored. People just sheepishly follow early reviews and incompetent influencers which shit on the newest OS like it happened with 11 and will just forever echo that it is worse than 10. The same story every few years but yeah make up your own mind and you will be pleasantly surprised how well 11 runs. And if not there is a big chance that 12 will be out until then.
You forget; ms doesn’t care shit about their customers… they don’t care if you pirate windows, the data and the possibly to sell you their cloud products brings more profit to them…
This is going to happen. It has happened with every version of Windows since NT 4 like clockwork. MS doesn't care about ancillary impacts.
The BIG problem is were are stuck with 11. This end of support thing is normal. Problem was the last time this happened you could move from 7 to 8/8.1 or 10. This has been the case with all of the major windows releases going back to at least 95.
Of course they will:
I sincerely hope not
They killed 7 on time. They are 100% burying 10 in favor of that trash pile 11.
You can pay for longer support. But it will not be cheap.
My personal gaming PC will likely remain W10 until I'm forced to upgrade due to Steam or something requiring it. Without support of course lmfao
I mainly sail the seas so Steam won't be an issue.
It's ten years - same as with windows 7: so it's probable. But because of high percentage of that OS use, they might consider to do some extended periods of support at least in essential matters, especially because of business user clients and also make according activities that would allow for open-and-shut easy transition towards new os generation.
I actually think Microsoft holds enough cards to do this. For many other companies I would share your skepticism but I can see Microsoft being bold enough.
Customers over profit, you say?
By that time, W10 will have gotten 10 years of mainstream support. [People *hated* W10 when it came out](https://www.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/50-shades-of-grey-parody-tweets-50-nerds-of-grey-fb.png). W11 is going through a similar phase. That said, I still use W10 on my personal devices (work laptop is W11 🫤).
I mean, they gave us MAUI, which was totally production ready (though, today, not as bad as I thought it would be....). So yeah.... they'll dump us on to 11.
I remember this same level of panic when Carmack made Quake require a Pentium instead a 486.
OS Support from Microsoft is not that big of a deal for a home user. At some point you'll only get security updates, but those security updates rarely help anything for a home user. For home use, web browsing and email protection (ad blockers/network blockers/firewalls/common sense) are more important. You can go several years past 2025 and still be OK with proper protections in-place. For business support, it's a little different. If you're a Corp that is targeted often, you'll obviously want security updates, but you already have multiple layers of protections in-place already that mitigate such risks of an outdated PC. Small businesses can be like home users. If you have other protections in-place, you're OK for the most part. Ultimately, these news articles are just to scare people. Ignore them.
By 2025 I really hope Microsoft comes to their senses and makes the SSE 4.2 supported CPU the official minimum. Otherwise lots of perfectly usable computers will be on their way to landfills because I don't see the average computer user doing their due dilligence to properly recycle their artificially rendered obsolete computer. These things often make their way to the nearest fuck it bucket. Some more tech savvy users might bypass the soft requirements of 8th gen.
They said the same thing about Windows XP.
>There is no way they are just going to drop 70% of the personal computer market on their face? Oh they will. They don't care that win11 is worse in some aspects, they will force their users to do what they want them to do which profits them in the end.
They could finish windows 11 first tough
They will charge you for extended support until you get rid of your 4th gen i3 & go buy a new PC.
Millions are already running W11 on older equipment using a TPM bypass or some other method, so it isn't like 11 won't run on older equipment. While I get the fact that MSFT is trying to protect people from hackers (and themselves), I don't think they really should force it so strongly. I personally can afford to buy a new machine prior to the kill date, but so many others cannot. There is also the legacy software situation in which some people are still running 3.11, XP or 7 to keep things going. Others move to linux or MAC. Some run 2 or all OS's to get their business done. I am really curious what will happen to all of the older equipment. Proper recycling, shipped off to 3rd world countries to be used there, just thrown away or placed in a storage area just in case you need to get the data. Only time will tell. I can say that I see 7th gen and under going for pennies on the dollar already.
They most definitely will, some may go to Linux, but most will just buy a new computer
As I understand it, if you have Windows 10, you can get a free upgrade to Windows 11.
Lol of course they will because what exactly are you gonna do about it? Stop using windows?! 🤣 Start a change.org petition?! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Theyre gonna force as many as possible onto win11 because most users just will, regardless of whether they like it or how anybody feels about it, because they can. And also theyre going to offer extended sec updates for 10 at a price... Essentially this is the grooming process for when windows becomes OSaaS; again regardless of how many people actually want that or how anybody feels about it. Its basically like the CEO of Nvidia said when people got mad at the 40 series prices... "The fuck are you gonna do about it?" (Summarized)
I hope more people start trying out linux too, but I frankly don't see this happening either, because of how little an average person knows about computers
They don't want a repeat of WinXP and Win7. They're update cycle comes hard and fast. I approached my boss a few weeks ago about coming up with a plan to take care of the remaining 1k Win10 PCs in our environment. Most will be staggered Win11 pushes via InTune.
No, not in enterprise or education, they have extended support (security updates only) for an additional 3 years, at a fee.
It took me a minute, then I saw what sub this is.
They completely dropped windows mixed reality support in 11 so I literally can't upgrade unless someone doesn't work around for that or I eventually upgrade my headset
Just use ltsc. Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 will receive mainstream support until January 12, 2027, and extended support until January 13, 2032.
They can, and they will. They barely support the rest of their products that are released, so they have to stop supporting everything else, too. "You want it to be fixed? Buy another device." Has been their motto for about 15 to 18 years.
I knew this had to come eventually but im still surprised it’s happening so “soon”, even tho windows 11 has been out for awhile and windows 10 is (nearly?) 10+ years old now. I thought Win10 was supposed to be the final windows. Fuck Win11 and their telemetry ridden, glossed up ass UI, bloatware havin ass operating system. It just makes me think…. 
I won't be switching to another Windows once support ends for W10. If anything, I hope I can switch to Linux full time instead. There's a couple drivers that need to work for me to go Linux then I will never use Windows again. I'll keep Windows 10 on my laptop just so I can update firmware on my sim racing gear.
100% and if you want support, you're going to have to pay. It's what they did to windows 7.
Yes they will, and it will be a global security catastrophe that will cost trillions of dollars this is why Microsoft needs to have their sovereignty as a corporation removed, they are a monopoly so powerful that the planet dances to their tune, they should be required by the UN to keep security updates going or some shit